States Meeting Transcript - 01/05/2007

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 1st MAY 2007

QUESTIONS......................................................................................7

1. Written Questions........................................................................7

1. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE ANNUAL EXPENDITURE ON VEHICLE RECOVERY SINCE 2002:....................................................................................7
2. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING WASTE RECYCLING LEVELS:............8
3. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE DURATION AND LEVEL OF SUBSIDIES TO WATERFRONT OUTLETS:....9
4. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE FORMAL PROCESSES EXISTING BETWEEN JERSEY AND HER MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT RELATING TO THE NEGOTIATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL MATTERS:......................................................10
5. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD: ........................10
6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TRESURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:..11
7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:....12
8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD: ..............................................................................12
9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:.............14
10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD: ..............................................................................15
11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD: ........................16
12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

17

13. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:...........17
14. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD: ..............................................................................18
15. SENATOR B.E. SHENTON OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESURCES REGARDING TV LICENCE COSTS:.................................................19

2. Oral Questions: ..........................................................................19

1. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding possible Parish participation in the forthcoming review of safety hazards at La Collette:..................................................................19 Deputy G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):...19

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................20
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier : ..................................................20

3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................20
4. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................20
5. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................21

2. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services regarding her department's progress in implementing the Air Quality Strategy for Jersey: .........................................................................................21 Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour (Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services):21

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................21
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................22
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................22
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................22
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:...............................................23
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................23
7. Deputy A. Breckon of St. Saviour:......................................................23

3. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding whether a Goods and Services Tax would be charged on the sale of duty-free goods at the airport:..............................................................................23 Senator T. A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ..........................23
4. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding proposed cuts in grant aid to the dairy and agriculture industries:.......................24

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................24
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25

5. Deputy J.A. Martin of the Minister of Housing regarding the potential rise in the number of private sector (j) category employees:................................................26 Senator T. J. Le Main (Minister for Housing): ................................................26

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................26
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................27
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27
4. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :........................................................27
5. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................27
6. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................28
7. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................28 Senator F.H. Walker :.........................................................................29

6. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Economic Development regarding proposals to reduce support for the tourism as industry outlined in his draft 2008 Departmental Business Plan: ..........................................................................29 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):............................29

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................29
2. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................30
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................30
4. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour:......................................................30
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................31

7. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the issue of planning permissions for mobile telephone masts in prime positions within the countryside:........................................................31

Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):...........................31

1. The Connétable of Grouville :...........................................................32
2. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................32
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................32
4. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................32
5. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement : ...............................................33
6. Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement:.......................................................33
7. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan of St. Helier : ......................................................33
8. The Connétable of Grouville :...........................................................33

8. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the compatibility of the Draft Prison (Amendment No. 6) (Jersey) Law 200- with the Human Rights (Jersey) Law 2000:..............................................................34 Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):........................................34

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................34
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier...............................................................34
3. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................35
4. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................35

9. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of the Chief Minister regarding the Island's existing relationship with Her Majesty'sGovernment:.......................................................35 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................35

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................36
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................36
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................37

10. Deputy S. Power of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the appointment of10 additional staff for the processing of the new Goods and Services Tax:...........37 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ..........................37
11. The Connétable of Grouville of the Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services regarding precautions to safeguard the health of the people who live in close proximity to mobile phone masts:....................................................................38 Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en (Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services):...............38

1. The Connétable of Grouville :........................................................38
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................39
3. Deputy S. Pitman of St. Helier : ......................................................39

3. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Social Security.............40

1. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................40 Senator P.F. Routier (The Minister for Social Security): ......................................40
2. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................40
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................41
5. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................41
6. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier:..........................................................42
7. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................42
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................42
9. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................42
10. The Very Reverend R.F. Key, B.A., The Dean of Jersey:...............................43

4. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Housing....................43

1. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................43 Senator T.J. Le Main (The Minister for Housing): ............................................43
2. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................44
3. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................44

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................44
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................45
6. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................45
7. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................45
8. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................46
9. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................46
10. Senator L. Norman: ....................................................................46
11. Connétable G.W. Fisher of St. Lawrence:..............................................47

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY .....................48

5 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):.............................................48

1. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................50
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................50
3. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................50
4. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan:....................................................................50
5. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................51
6. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................51
7. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade : ..................................................51
8. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................52
9. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................52 The Bailiff :...................................................................................52

6. Deputy G.P. Southern (Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel): ............52

1. Deputy P.F.C. Ozouf : ..................................................................53
2. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................53
3. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................53
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................54
5. Senator F.H. Walker :...................................................................54
6. Deputy J.J. Huet of St. Helier : ..........................................................55
7. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................55
8. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................55 The Bailiff :...................................................................................55

7. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister of Economic Development):......................56

1. Senator L. Norman: ....................................................................56
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................56
3. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................57
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................57
5. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................57
6. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................58
7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................58 The Bailiff :...................................................................................59

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................59

8. Composition and Election of the States' Assembly: proposed reforms (P.145/2006)..59

The Bailiff :...................................................................................59

1. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................59 Deputy G.P. Southern :.......................................................................62

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................62 Senator P.F. Routier:..........................................................................62

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................62

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................62 Deputy I.J. Gorst : ............................................................................65

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................66 The Bailiff :...................................................................................67
2. Connétable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen:....................................................67 Deputy G.P. Southern :........................................................................68
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................68

4. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................69
5. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................70
6. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................71
7. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................71
8. Senator L. Norman: ....................................................................72
9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................72

The Bailiff :...................................................................................73 Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:......................................................................73 Deputy G.P. Southern :........................................................................73 The Bailiff :...................................................................................75 The Bailiff :...................................................................................77 Connétable D.F. Gray of St. Clement (President of the Privileges and Procedures Committee):

.........................................................................................77 The Bailiff :...................................................................................79

3. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence : .............................................79

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................80 The Bailiff :...................................................................................80
2. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................81 Mr. W.J. Bailhache Q.C., H.M. Attorney General:............................................81
3. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................81 Senator J.L. Perchard:........................................................................83 The Bailiff :...................................................................................83
4. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................83
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................84
6. Deputy P.N. Troy ofSt.Brelade:.......................................................84
7. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen:..........................................................84
8. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................85
9. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:................................................................85
10. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................86
11. Senator L. Norman :.................................................................87
12. Deputy J.B. Fox:....................................................................87
13. Deputy I.J. Gorst :....................................................................88
14. Deputy J. Gallichan of St. Mary:....................................................88
15. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ...........................................................89 Senator M.E. Vibert :..........................................................................89

4. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................91

1. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................93
2. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................93
3. Deputy G.P Southern :..................................................................93
4. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................93
   5. The Bailiff :.............................................................................95

1. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................95
2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................95
3. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................96
4. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................96

8.5.5. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................96

6. Deputy J.J. Huet:.......................................................................96
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................97

8. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................97

6. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................100

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ..............................................................100
2. Deputy A. Breckon:...................................................................100
3. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :.................................................................101
4. Senator M.E. Vibert :..................................................................101 The Attorney General:......................................................................101
5. Senator F.H. Walker :..................................................................101 The Bailiff :..................................................................................102
6. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:..............................................................102
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :................................................................103
8. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ............................................................103
9. The Deputy of St. Mary:..............................................................103
10. The Connétable of St. Ouen : .......................................................103
11. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.............................................................103
12. The Connétable of St. Clement:....................................................103 The Bailiff ..................................................................................103

7. The Bailiff :............................................................................105

1. Senator M.E. Vibert :..................................................................105
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ..............................................................105
3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:..............................................................106
4. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:...............................................................106

ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED................................................................108 Senator L. Norman: .........................................................................108 The Bailiff :..................................................................................108

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................108

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

QUESTIONS

1. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE ANNUAL EXPENDITURE ON VEHICLE RECOVERY SINCE 2002:

Question

Would the Minister provide members with the annual figures for her Department's expenditure on vehicle recovery since 2002 and advise what companies have been contracted to provide this service to the Police since that date?

Answer

There are no companies contracted to provide tow-away services to the police. The Force, however, does maintain a rota of companies who can be called to carry out work, as required, either on behalf of the Force or the owners of vehicles. The members of companies on the list at any one time can vary according to commercial and operational circumstances. Work is allocated to different companies on a strict rotational basis. In 2005 a total of ten companies were approached and invited to apply for inclusion. Three expressed an interest at that time.

Since 2002 the following companies have at various times been included in the rota -

No. 1 Recovery L. Balacco R. Boschat Bishops

Robin Ward

There are currently two companies on the rota, namely Robin Ward and No1 Recovery. The annual cost to the Police for this service, for the years 2002 to 2006, was as follows –

2002 £24,465.00 2003 £26,451.00 2004 £28,577.00 2005 £22,405.00 2006 £27,212.00

Given that a significant number of tow-aways arise from road crashes, a review has recently been undertaken to examine whether the distribution of charges between the Force, vehicle owners and insurance companies is one which properly reflects the responsibilities of each and the interests of the taxpayer. The findings of the review are currently being examined.

2. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING WASTE RECYCLING LEVELS:

Question

Would the Minister provide members with a breakdown of the amount of waste recycled by his department over the last 5 years and its percentage compared to the total amount of waste produced per year in Jersey?

Answer

The table below provides a breakdown of waste statistics for the last 5 years. The majority of these tonnages are handled by Transport and Technical Services but some is via a contract with a partner or wholly by a private company.

Scrap metal and recycled aggregates figures would not normally be included in UK Municipal waste statistics so have been listed separately here.

It should be noted that States Members can find these statistics published annually in the States publication "Jersey in Figures"

3. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE DURATION AND LEVEL OF SUBSIDIES TO WATERFRONT OUTLETS: Question

Would the Minister advise members whether subsidies were provided to the company owners of the various outlets at the Waterfront Leisure complex and, if so, would he provide detailed figures outlining the annual amounts paid to each company to date.

Answer

P.92/1999 was adopted by the States on 27th July 1999 which agreed to enter into lease for 150 years  between the Public  and CTP  Limited  (the  developer)  for the development of a  leisure complex comprising of leisure and competition pools, health and fitness studio, two fast food restaurants, a night club and café/restaurant with live entertainment, a public house, ten screen cinema and a public square. The financial agreement was that a capital premium of £620,000 would be paid by CTP for the site and a payment of £10.9 million would be paid by the Public for the construction of the leisure and competition pool.

In addition, the States received an overage payment of £450,000 in October 2004. Overage is the residual balance from sale proceeds after deducting the cost of development and the developer's profit, and it represents the value of the land in addition to the payment of £620,000 already received.

The pubic receives a cash subsidy of £7,750 per calendar month which commenced in July 2003 representing a contribution from the Developer towards the pool's operating costs. This figure increases annually by reference to the increase in the Jersey Retail Price Index and continues for a period of 20 years from the commencement date. To date the following payments have been received by the Public and passed on to the operator of the AquaSplash (public swimming pool) -

July 2003 £3,000 (initial payment for part of the month)

August 2003 – June 2004 £85,250 (11 monthly payments of £7,750) July 2004 – June 2005 £95,796 (12 monthly payments of £7,983) July 2005 – June 2006 £98,664 (12 monthly payments of £8,222) July 2006 – June 2007 £101,616 (12 monthly payments of £8,468)

The AquaSplash also receives a subsidy from the Public in line with the management agreement of 23rd August 2001, this makes up the revenue / expenditure shortfall in a given year as detailed below for the operation of the pool:

Year Revenue Expenditure Subsidy

2003 £431,611 £542,067 £110,456 (pool opened July 2003)

2004 £898,624 £1,144,788 £246,164 2005 £965,159 £1,175,629 £210,470 2006 £1,014,005 £1,289,461 £275,456

Other than the Aquasplash, we are not aware of any additional subsidies provided to the company owners of the various outlets at the Waterfront Leisure Complex. Any commercial arrangements are private matters between the private sector landlord and the tenants. It is envisaged that as with any private commercial property, the landlord will be setting the rental levels in accordance with the market.

4. DEPUTY  P.V.F.  LE  CLAIRE  OF  ST.  HELIER  OF  THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING THE FORMAL PROCESSES EXISTING BETWEEN JERSEY AND HER  MAJESTY'S  GOVERNMENT  RELATING  TO  THE  NEGOTIATION  OF CONSTITUTIONAL MATTERS:

Question

Would the Chief Minister outline the formal processes which currently exist between the States of Jersey, HM Attorney General and Her Majesty's Government relating to negotiations on matters of jurisdiction, constitution or constitutional relationships?

Answer

I  interpret  matters of  jurisdiction,  constitution  or  constitutional  relationships'  to  mean  issues relating to the external relations of Jersey in respect of the United Kingdom or any other state.

Article 18 of the States of Jersey Law, 2005, states that a function of the Council of Ministers includes discussing and agreeing their common policy regarding external relations. Furthermore, the Article provides that a function of the Chief Minister includes conducting external relations in accordance with the common policy agreed by the Council of Ministers.

However, this responsibility is always carried out within the authority of the States of Jersey. For example, in implementing a policy agreed as part of the States Strategic Plan, or in following adoption of a proposition in the States, the advice of HM Attorney General and guidance of the Bailiff will be sought where appropriate.

Following  the  agreement  of  a  policy  position  by  the  States  or  by  Ministers,  the  process  for communications with Her Majesty's Government is either directly via Ministerial correspondence or through official correspondence via the Bailiff 's Chambers after discussion with HM Attorney General.

5. DEPUTY  G.P.  SOUTHERN  OF  ST.  HELIER  OF THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

Question

1. Would the Chief Minister inform members –

1. what proportion ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award his department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would theChief Minister placethese in context of measures already taken inresponsetothe need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) £81,100.

2. The department will absorb the additional cost by close control of staff turnover and vacancies.
3. As the department's work is entirely dependent on the work of its staff, this will inevitably lead to some delays in some activities.

2. The department was required to make £30,900 efficiency savings in 2007. These are being implemented by improving working practices and focusing all work on the key priorities setout in the Strategic Plan. The more important context is that the department has already achieved efficiency savings of £1.64 million in 2005 and 2006. These have been delivered as partofthe change programme, a major partof which has been the creation of corporate HR and IT functions. £676,000 of these savings were attributed directly to the Corporate Management Board budget which represents a 6 per cent reduction in funding.

6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TRESURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD: Question

1. Would the Minister inform members –

1. what proportion ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award his department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response tothe need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) £100,400, which represents about 4% of the £2.5 million.

2. The department undertakes a monthly budget forecasting exercise to monitor and control its budget. Current forecastsshow that the department can accommodate the £100,400 pay award in 2007 due to staff turnover and vacancies.

3. It is not anticipated that there will be service cuts or delays in activities in 2007.

2. The department was required to make £1,358,000 of permanent efficiency savings in 2007, of which £900,000 relates to Property, £357,000 to the finance function and £101,000 to procurement and departmental efficiency savings.

The reduction in funding arising from the 2007 pay award is for one year only as it will be

factored into the Departments' base budgets from 2008. It is, therefore, expected that the 2007 expenditure will be accommodated by close control of the 2007 budget.

7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD: Question

1. Would the Minister inform members –

1. what proportion ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award his department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response to the need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) Economic Development has had toabsorb £27,700 ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award

2. The department undertakes a monthly budget forecasting exercise to monitor and control its budget. Current forecastsshow that the department can accommodate the cost in 2007 without detrimental effect to the business plan.
3. It is not anticipated that there will be service cuts or delays in activities in 2007.

2. The department was required to make £155,800 efficiency savings in 2007. These were achieved by a fundamental review of the department's expenditure.

The reduction in funding arising from the 2007 pay award is for one year only as it will be

factored into the Department's base budgets from 2008. It is, therefore, expected that the 2007 pay award cost will be accommodated by close control of the 2007 budget.

8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

Question

1. Would the Minister inform members –

award his department has had to absorb?

2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response to the need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) The Education, Sport and Culture Department has had to absorb £973,700 ofthe2007 States  employees' pay award.  The Council of Ministers agreed  further  funding of £275,300, bringing the sum to be absorbed by the department to £698,400.

(ii) In an attempt to reduce the impact to front line services, the full additional funding of £275,300 has been allocated to schools. Despite this the schools will have to absorb the following sums:

Other areas of the service have had to absorb the full shortfall in pay awards.

iii) Although exact figures were not available, all managers were warned at the beginning of the year of the possibility that they would have to meet a shortfall in pay awards from their own budgets. The 2007 budgets were adjusted to inflate the staff budgets for the anticipated pay awards. This was achieved by reducing non staff costs, calculating staff vacancy factors and reallocating to meet the pay award shortfall.

Service cuts and delays in certain activities have not been identified to meet the shortfall in

pay awards. However should managers be unable to operate within their reduced budget  there  is  a  possibility  that  they  will  have  to  take  action  such  as  delaying initiatives or possibly recruitment to avoid overspending in their area.

2. Efficiency savings of £340,900 were applied tothe Education, Sport and Culture budget for 2007.Thesewill be achieved through staff vacancies, increasing income without increasing the associated costs of generating income, for example sales of active cards and various small efficiency savings across the full range of the department's activities.

Areas  have reviewed their  processes  and  implemented efficiencies to  save  money,  for example the Library has altered heating times, increased their ordering of paperbacks rather than  hardbacks  where  possible  and  they  are  also  attempting  to  generate  more  media coverage in an attempt to reduce advertising costs. Staff training has been reviewed and

where possible in-house training has been encouraged, this has led to significant savings. Schools and other service areas are able to take advantage of corporate contracts for purchasing of goods and services and it is hoped that the scope of these savings will increase during the course of 2007.

It should be noted however that additional costs of utilities, for example, which the department has estimated will cost in the region of £250,000, will also have to be found from within existing resources. No additional funding has been allocated to schools or service areas to compensate for these additional costs.

With relatively small budgets for non-staff costs, most areas of the service have limited scope for achieving further efficiency savings over those already identified. Staff costs represent over 83 per cent of the department's gross budget excluding transfer payments (student grants and grants to other organisations).

9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

Question

1. Would the Minister inform members –

1. what proportion ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award her department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response to the need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) £415,200 of which £117,400 has been allocated from central funds, leaving a shortfall of £297,800 to be absorbed by the Department.

2. The Department monitors its budget on a monthly basis in order that control and forecasting can be exercised over expenditure. Thepayaward for 2007 will needtobe afforded from phasing the introduction ofthe Discrimination Law; staff turnover and vacancies across Home Affairs services; reduction in overtime expenditure; and cancellation of some training courses.
3. The Department will be making a determined effort to minimise the effect, but the measures outlined in paragraph ii) cannot be carried without impact on services.

2. The Home Affairs Department had already planned to meet the majority of its 2007 efficiency savings by foregoing non-staff inflation expenditure. The relatively small residual amount of efficiency savings required has been added to the larger sum to fund the 2007pay rise and is therefore part of the measures outlined above.

10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

Question

1. Would the Minister inform members –

1. what proportion ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award his department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response to the need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) The Health and Social Services Department is required to find the sum of £980,000 as its pro-rata contribution to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award. This is a non- recurring contribution.

2. Four actions have been taken to make this contribution while at the same time minimising the impact on front line services for patients and clients.

The first action was for the Health and Social Services Department to surrender the sum of

£428,000 from contingencies and from an invest to save scheme'. The latter is an innovative scheme which was introduced last year which seeks to pump prime significant cash releasing efficiency schemes and then reward' the particular innovative department by letting it have a share' in that efficiency saving for investment in equipment, professional training or other general improvements in a particular service.

The second action was to reschedule £120,000 of minor maintenance schemes.

The third action was to put on hold until January 2008 some infrastructure developments,

but included also here was a vision screening Royal National Institute for the Blind Social Worker, an appointment to which was expected in September 2007. For this now intervening period (September 2007 to September 2008) this service will receive social worker support from the general Social Work Department.

The fourth action has been to use gift funds to support some minor capital works and to

fund a specific emergency surgical need which was otherwise to be funded from the departmental budget. This emergency surgical need is the funding of bariatric surgery, which I recognise the Deputy takes a very close interest in. The use of the gift fund for these purposes is appropriate as it is a gift left for the benefit of patients at the General Hospital.

3. As the £980,000 would otherwise have been used to support new services for clients and patients, it must follow that the removal of such a sum of money does represent a cut in service. However, my staff have been studious and diligent to ensure that any impact on front line servicesis mitigated. As to the delay in such matters as minor capital works, there is always the risk that rescheduling these items to the next year creates the risk of break down or a general depletion in the quality in the living environment of patients and clients.

2. In additionto this £980,000 contribution tothe 2007 States employees payaward, Health and Social Serviceswastasked with releasing £948,500 as part of the efficiency savings for this year.

Health and Social Services has to manage a wide range of financial challenges which is why the Department is very fortunate to have a Finance Department which has such a high level of professional skill and expertise – with individuals from this Department able to work shoulder to shoulder with service managers and clinical leaders. The world of health and social care spending is characterised by high inflation in pharmaceuticals and other technologies, the cost of securing and rewarding highly skilled health and social care professionals in a challenging global labour market, and the cost of highly specialist treatments (which in the Jersey context translate into treatment on the mainland). Health and Social Services must also meet the challenges placed upon it by the ageing of the population – the demographic time bomb as it is more commonly called. It is axiomatic that the cost of health and social care to older people can be as much as four times more than for a younger person aged under 65 years. The further challenges of meeting the 2007 pay award and efficiency savings must be seen in the context of these other financial cost pressures.

If the Deputy would wish for a line by line statement and detailed explanation of the four

actions referred to in a)(ii) above, then I will be very pleased to provide this for him via a meeting with my senior officers.

11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

Question

1. Would the Minister inform members –

1. what proportion of the £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award his department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response to the

need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) The totalcostofthepay award for Housing is £39,500, £11,200 is being provided by Treasury and £28,300 is absorbed by the department. The £28,300 absorbed represents 1.12 per cent of the total £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award.

2. The additional cost has been met by sacrificing some of the year to date favourable variance in staff costs. The year to date favourable variance in staff costs has arisen as a result of staff vacancies.
3. The Housing maintenance budget would have benefited from the favourable variance in staff costs. However service cuts will not be required to fund this particular pay award.

2. In total including the £28,300 from the payaward, the efficiency savings required to be delivered by Housing are £137,500 in addition to an approved service reduction of £190,000 in Housing Maintenance.

12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

Question

1. Would the Minister inform members –

1. what proportion ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award his department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response to the need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) The department has been asked to absorb £57,000 ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award, against a background of already being under- resourced.

2. The additional cost can only be met from a combination of staff savings and from a projected increase in income.
3. It is anticipated that the "one-off" additional cost totalling £57,000 could result in a reduction intheservice provided by the Planning andEnvironment Department, unless we can generate an increase in planning and building fee income.

2. In terms of context the additional £57,000 is in addition to the £50,900 of efficiency savings the department has already been tasked with achieving in 2007.

The Department is on schedule to achieve its 2007 efficiency saving target and will make every effort to achieve the prescribed savings with minimum impact on front line services.

13. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

1. Would the Minister inform members –

1. what proportion ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award his department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response to the need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) £15,000, which represents approximately ½ per cent of the £2.5 million.

2. The Department is considering options available to it to achieve the one-off savings required to meet these costs.
3. The Department will not be considering cuts in services to achieve these savings.

2. The Department has to find additional efficiency savings relating to its States' funded activities amounting to £29,300 in 2007.

The reduction in funding arising from the 2007 pay award is for one year only as it will be factored into Departments' base budgets from 2008. It is, therefore, expected that the 2007 saving will be accommodated by close control of the 2007 budget.

14. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE FUNDING OF THE 2007 PAY AWARD:

Question

1. Would the Minister inform members –

1. what proportion ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award his department has had to absorb?
2. what measures have been taken to meet this additional cost?
3. whether such actions amount to service cuts or delays in certain activities, and

2. Would the Minister place these in context of measures already taken in response to the need for efficiency savings for 2007?

Answer

1. (i) The department has beenaskedtoabsorb£153,100ofthe £2.5 million required to fund the 2007 States employees' pay award.

2. The additional cost will be met from a combination of expenditure restraints and from a projected increase in income.
3. Due to the fact that the Department has only been asked to fund an additional costof £153,100 in 2007 it is not anticipated that there will be a reduction in the service provided by the Transport and Technical Services Department, albeit there could be delays to infrastructure maintenance.

2. In 2007 the Department was tasked with achieving efficiency savings totalling £192,300, these savings have been achieved through a range of measures but especially in the Parks and Garden Section which has implemented a five year plan to reduce its budget by £730,000.

15. SENATOR B.E. SHENTON OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESURCES REGARDING TV LICENCE COSTS:

Question

Would the Minister advise members whether the surplus generated from the impôts duty on beer over TV licence costs in 2006, in the sum of £128,349, will be carried forward for use by the Minister for Social Security in order that consideration can be given to distributing the free TV licence benefit to a wider audience?

Answer

The additional revenue generated from an increase in impôts duty on beer was not ring-fenced' for any particular purpose but merely created additional revenue to offset anticipated increased expenditure as a result of approving a scheme to provide free television licences for certain people over 75.

The Minister for Social Security could have applied for a carry forward of any underspends in his Departmental budget, in line with the Financial Directions at year end, including that on TV Licences. However, in the event, the Social Security Department had, overall, an overspend of £3.4m primarily because of the increased cost of providing for future old age pensions (supplementation) so there was no surplus available to be requested to carry forward.

2. Oral Questions:

1. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding possible Parish participation in the forthcoming review of safety hazards at La Collette:

Will the Minister be seeking Parish participation in the forthcoming review of safety hazards at La Collette?

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):

La Collette has a review group, which has been established by the Chief Minister's Department, although the initiative came from myself and my chief officer. Therefore, the response to the Constable's question is provided on behalf of the Chief Minister. The La Collette Hazard Review Group includes representatives of all the operators of hazardous facilities within the La Collette site and all of the States  departments with either  regulatory, operational or  property  management function within the area. Phase 1, currently under way, focuses on establishing the  baseline information about the nature and extent of risks and the current hazard management arrangements.

Phase 2 will assess the policy, resource co-ordination and consultation requirements that arise from the initial assessment. As the Parish of St. Helier does not own or operate any activity within the area defined for the review, it is not proposed to consult with the Parish during phase 1. However, as the Parish, and many other stake holders, will need to be aware of the outcomes of phase 1, it is anticipated that phase 2 of the review will require the Hazard Review Group to consult with the Parish.

1. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Supplementary, please, Sir. Given that the Hazard Review Group is chaired by the Chief Officer of the Department of Transport and Technical Services, which department has submitted a planning application for a waste treatment facility at La Collette, does the Minister not see that there is any potential conflict of interest or perceived conflict of interest in the structure of the group?

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye: No, I do not, Sir.

2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier :

Given that the Bunsfield Report, which is out for consultation - including public consultation - to establish the outlying areas of risk that might be further increased, does the Minister anticipate consulting key stakeholders in this review, namely residents of the districts on which these facilities are likely to be sited if they are going to go ahead?

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:

Currently this cross-departmental group is essentially made up of experts in the risk assessment and understanding of hazard. As I indicated in my initial reply, at an appropriate time where consultation is required, all key stakeholders - which I would assume would include concerned members of the public - will be consulted.

3. The Connétable of St. Helier :

I would like to seek further elucidation on the Minister's commendably brief reply to my supplementary question. Could the Minister confirm that the planning application for the waste disposal facility has been put on hold, pending the findings of the La Collette Hazard Review Group, and that therefore there could be said to be a desire on the part of that group to conclude their investigations sooner rather than later, given that every week that the planning application is put on hold affects the timetable the department has for implementing the waste strategy.

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:

From a political point of view I do not and have no intention whatsoever of putting any pressure on a group of this importance. The review of hazards in the La Collette area is an extremely important review to be undertaken, and the length of time that that takes is not going to be a consideration as far as I am concerned. The amount of time that will be required will be taken.

4. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

Following on from Deputy Le Claire's question, I was not quite happy with the answer. Could the Minister guarantee that the Parishes involved, firstly through the Constable, then the Parish Deputies, will involve the stakeholders, being the residents of the area? That is a guarantee the Minister can give, Sir, if he is willing to.

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:

Perhaps I should repeat what I said earlier. As the Parish and many other stakeholders will need to be aware of the outcomes of phase 1 of this review, it is anticipated that elements within phase 2 of the review will require the Hazard Review Group to consult with the Parish and other key stakeholders.

5. The Connétable of St. Helier :

The Minister alluded to the timetable for the current planning application. Could he update the House on what the current timetable is in terms of when we may assume the planning application will be determined?

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:

I am afraid the Constable is in error, Sir. It was the Connétable who alluded to the timetable and not myself. I am not currently in a position to brief either the Connétable or the House on the precise process of the planning application, although I will be happy to inform the Connétable at another time.

The Bailiff :

We come next to a question by the Connétable of St. Helier of the Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services.

2. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services regarding her department's  progress in  implementing  the  Air Quality Strategy  for Jersey:

Would the Minister advise Members of his department's progress in implementing the Air Quality Strategy for Jersey?

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour (Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services): The Air Quality Strategy was endorsed by the Health and Social Services Committee in September 2002 and was updated in 2003 to take account of comments from other States' departments and further monitoring results. It should be noted that the monitoring of air quality was introduced a number years earlier than the strategy. The strategy highlights 4 areas of concern. First, the emissions from the Bellozanne waste incinerator. The Constable will be aware that the States of Jersey has a waste strategy which will deliver a new energy from waste plant. The energy from waste plant, which should be fully up and running by 2010, will ensure that waste incineration meets the required modern standards applied throughout Europe. Secondly, the emissions from the Jersey Electricity power station at La Collette. The Connétable will be aware that this facility now operates for a very limited period during the year, as the supply from the French mainland has been increased. The impact on air quality has been to reduce the emissions significantly. Thirdly, the emissions from the old cremators at the crematorium. These were replaced in 2004, and the impact on air quality has been to reduce emissions to the requisite standard. Fourthly, the emissions from road traffic, particularly oxides of nitrogen, which remain the outstanding issue as far as the Air Quality Strategy is concerned. The actions required to reduce the emissions from road traffic are all contained within the recently published Transport and Technical Services Department's Draft Integrated Travel and Transport Strategy for the Island. If this strategy is fully implemented, it is anticipated that vehicle emissions will reduce as far as reasonably practicable at this stage. However, there is a general matter which remains outstanding: the monitoring of air quality to demonstrate definitively the States of Jersey's compliance with E.U. (European Union) standards of air quality. The Assembly will appreciate that gathering high quality long-term data is an essential part of managing air quality. While monitoring does take place, this is not optimum, as this would require additional resources which have yet to be prioritised by my department.

1. The Connétable of St. Helier :

The Assistant Minister has outlined 4 specific initiatives, 3 of which appear to be well under way. In respect of the fourth initiative - road traffic emissions - could the Assistant Minister indicate when, subject to a satisfactory outcome of the Transport and Technical Services policies, she would expect to see improvement in air quality as a result of falling road traffic emissions?

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:

We really need to correctly time this investment with the roll-out of the Integrated Travel and Transport Strategy, and then we could performance manage the strategy.

2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

May I ask the Assistant Minister to produce for Members a diary of the emissions and the times that the La Collette J.E.C. (Jersey Electricity Company) chimney has been used over the past 12 months, to ascertain the actual usage of the chimney and what the emissions are from that chimney and whether or not they meet E.U. standards as residents have expressed some concerns. Can I also ask the Assistant Minister if she would table for Members the statistics and the areas where air traffic monitoring is occurring at the moment and has been occurring, so that Members can determine the vehicle traffic emissions that are occurring at present and the quantities and the locations, so that we can judge for ourselves in the future whether or not there has been any improvement. Will the Assistant Minister therefore agree to table the actual findings over the last 12 months of the emissions from the J.E.C. chimney and the locations where vehicle emissions testing is occurring at the moment; can we see the figures, please, and the locations?

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:

I would be happy for my officers to provide the Connétable with a report within a very short time period into the issues he has raised.

2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

I do not know if the Assistant Minister is reading from a list of prepared answers, but I am not a Connétable , to begin with, and I do not have any intention of being one. But in respect of my question, I specifically asked for something that is not contained in a report. I am asking for statistics and an evaluation of emissions that are occurring.

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:

I apologise that I called the Deputy a Connétable . Sir, I honestly cannot give these answers here and now. I do know where there has been some monitoring, certainly of areas in town by the market, but I would like to be able to provide to the Deputy and any Member of the House the full information within a short time span.

3. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Thank you. In the Assistant Minister's very helpful and clear answers to my questions, she indicated that the Bellozanne incinerator in its current state is of course a problem from an emissions point of view. Could she explain whether action is being taken in consultation with the Department of Transport and Technical Services to reduce the amount of, for example, plastics which are being currently burnt in the incinerator and which are clearly making the emissions that much worse?

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:

I think probably that is more an answer for the Minister for Transport and Technical Services to give, but we will provide all data that we can, and obviously if we need to consult with the Minister for Transport and Technical Services we will do so.

4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

Does the Assistant Minister not believe, given the statistics of the materials that we have seen in the written answers today in respect of Deputy Pitman's questions, that certain items that are being burnt and entering the atmosphere at the moment should be required not to be burnt in the future, and the Health Ministry is the correct Ministry to be voicing our health concerns with?

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:

I do agree with the Deputy 's comments, and it is my understanding there has been a reduction in types of material that are burnt at Bellozanne, but to be absolutely accurate I would need my officers to come back to the Deputy .

5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour :

I wonder if the Assistant Minister could say how often she and the Minister sit down to review these figures and what then is the formal process if there are alarm signals contained within the figures?

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:

The Minister and I have fortnightly meetings where anything that has been discussed at the Council of Ministers and any concerns that parishioners or people in the Island with health problems raise to me, I bring to that meeting. So we do have regular meetings, and obviously in the meantime if I have any concerns I will either email or speak to the Chief Officer or email the Minister.

6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Would the Assistant Minister acknowledge that that does not appear to be a terribly proactive system?

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:

I have views about Assistant Ministers generally in this Assembly, but nonetheless, Sir, I can say that any information that I require and that I need I have plenty of people in departments as well as the Minister who I can approach at any time, and the Minister is accessible for me to ask any question, and as I say we have robust meetings every 2 weeks.

7. Deputy A. Breckon of St. Saviour :

A final supplementary, Sir. In the Assistant Minister's itemisation of the 4 areas of concern, she did not mention the emissions from domestic fires, and I wondered whether that is something which her department is aware of. Obviously in the U.K. (United Kingdom) in particular there is stringent legislation to prevent, for example, coal being burnt in urban areas, and I do not believe that is the case in Jersey.

Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:

I cannot provide the Connétable with an answer to that now, but along with the promised information to the Deputy , I will provide that information, and to all States Members.

The Bailiff :

We come next to a question by Deputy Power of the Minister for Treasury and Resources.

3. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding whether a Goods and Services Tax would be charged on the sale of duty-free goods at the airport:

Would the Minister confirm whether a goods and services tax will be charged on the sale of duty- free goods on either outbound or inbound flights at the airport?

Senator T. A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

I am not sure if I understand the question properly, but certainly the sale of duty-free goods on the actual flights to and from Jersey takes place outside territorial waters, and so G.S.T. (Goods and Services Tax) is not relevant. If the question relates specifically to goods sold at the airport duty- free shop, then the draft Goods and Services Tax Law allows that the supply of goods shall be zero rated if the supply would involve their export from Jersey. I understand that the airport's duty-free shop is currently only permitted to sell duty-free goods to departing passengers, and therefore these goods could and would be zero-rated for Goods and Services Tax.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding proposed cuts in grant aid to the dairy and agriculture industries:

Further to his written answers on 17th April 2007, will the Minister inform Members whether the proposed cut in grant aid to the dairy and agriculture industries of £500,000 is additional to the reductions proposed in the Rural Economy Strategy, and advise what grants or services will be affected?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):

The first thing I should say is that I do not personally take the decisions in relation to the dairy industry, because I am conflicted because my father is a dairy farmer. However, I will answer the question in the generic sense based upon information that the department gives me in relation to dairy. Sir, I want to say that this is the second time that the Deputy is asking questions on a document that relates to draft allocations of how the department might spend money based upon this Assembly's expenditure in 2008. Having heard the comments of the Deputy in the media, it is quite clear to me that he has not taken the opportunity to develop an understanding of the draft information as it was intended for Scrutiny to have in the 2008 business planning process. As Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel, I find this quite concerning. The fact is that the draft allocation of both this question and the next one do not represent cuts to services. They indicate movements of funds to achieve an improved output to the department at the same cost. I am advised that in the most recent business planning discussions there are no proposed reductions in the level of grant to the dairy or agricultural industries. Furthermore, the intention is to improve the value of the industry that the Island and E.D.D. (Economic Development Department) derives by integrating the branding and marketing activities of all departments within the Ministry for Economic Development - tourism and agriculture - stimulating export trade and providing various other business support initiatives as the Deputy well knows are outlined in the increased funding for the Economic Growth Plan.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

I think Members might understand why I apparently do not understand what is going on. So the £500,000 will appear where? Overall in the next 2 years it is proposed at present, although it is subject to being changed, that support for the dairy and agricultural industry will reduce by approximately 40 per cent, from £4.5 million in 2007 to £2.8 million in 2010. Where will this money reappear, and how will it be directed to the benefit of the dairy or agricultural industries?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

These are draft allocations. Should I encourage the Deputy , rather than using the precious time of this Assembly in questions, why does he not come in with the Panel to try and get an understanding of what Economic Development is trying to do? Because simply trying to score points, as he is doing in this question and in relation to his comments on the tourism industry, to say that we do not support these sectors is not going to work, because it is not true.

Deputy G.P. Southern : Answer the question.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

We have to look at the track records

Deputy G.P. Southern :

Will the Minister answer the question?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

We have to look at the track records of the States of Jersey subsidy arrangements for tourism and agriculture, and we have to reflect about whether or not they have worked. In my judgment, they have not, but what E.D. is doing is it is moving money into helping businesses export, and we fully support both the agriculture and tourist economy, and I am not going to let the Deputy get away with suggesting anything else. If he is suggesting that economic growth comes through subsidy, then I am afraid we do depart from an understanding and an agreement.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is the Minister, as I take him to be doing, guaranteeing that there will be no effective reduction in the support going into the dairy and agriculture industries as a result of this plan, and will he answer the question where exactly will this money reappear and be directed to such purposes?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I have already said that based upon discussions with my departmental officials and those that take decisions in respect of the dairy industry, that there are no planned subsidy cuts. There are no plans. But I cannot guarantee that, because ultimately these are draft allocations based upon the cake which E.D. will get in the next spending round, which is going on at the moment and will be discussed. In respect of where the money is going, the Deputy knows the answer to that question. It is going in the Economic Development Economic Growth Plan; export initiatives; the export loan guarantee; the small loan guarantee fund. All these new products and services, which are available not only to the dairy and agricultural sectors but the fishing industry, the tourism industry, the e- commerce business sector and the rest of them. That is where the money is going, and the Deputy well knows that.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is it not the case that in fact the money will reappear, and it will be redirected towards high value industries, thereby causing not diversification in the economy but restriction and a limitation in what we produce on this Island?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

No, Sir. I am the Minister for Economic Development, not the Minister for Economic Decline. I am not prepared to put money into sectors which do not add economic value. I am optimistic and confident about the future success of both our agriculture and tourism economies, as many other sectors, and I am going to do everything with my department and my Assistant Ministers to deliver that. But I say to the Deputy , come and talk to us to try and understand what we are trying to achieve and not repeating the mistakes of the misguided past.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

Sir, if I may have a point of clarification.

The Bailiff :

If it is a genuine point of clarification.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

I believe it is, Sir; otherwise I would not be on my feet. The Minister said that he does not want to support areas of low economic value. Does that not mean that he does not wish to support agriculture and tourism, which are relatively low in economic value?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I did not say I was not willing to support low value industries. I actually said I do not want to be the Minister for economic decline, and if subsidies are basically designed to continue to extrapolate decline, then the answer is no. I repeat my offer to him. Come and talk to us rather than having spats across this Assembly and using his position in the media to cast aspersions on our lack of support for tourism and agriculture, because it is not true.

The Bailiff :

We come next to a question by Deputy Martin of the Minister for Housing.

5. Deputy  J.A. Martin  of the  Minister of Housing  regarding the  potential  rise in  the number of private sector (j) category employees:

Has it moved back to the Minister of Housing, Sir? I directed this question to the Minister of Economic Development, and it was passed to Housing and then on to the Chief Minister. So I am asking the question of Housing, am I? Right, thank you. Would the Minister of Housing advise Members whether he expects the growth of 2 per cent and 3 per cent in the number of private sector (j) category employees as stated in the Economic Growth Plan to continue in the next 5 years and be reflected in manpower returns produced by the Statistics Unit?

Senator T. J. Le Main (Minister for Housing):

The Economic Growth Plan makes no mention of 2 per cent or 3 per cent growth in the number of private (j) category employees. It commits itself to limit the growth of the workforce to 1 per cent and to develop the skills of the local workforce. On the general issue of (j) category employees, both I and the Economic Development Minister are in full agreement and have already given answers on the subject on 5th December and 17th April. But I will repeat some of the key points. Point 1. Regulation of Undertakings and Housing Law continue to be strictly applied; licences for non-local and (j) employees only being granted where no local person is available. Point 2. This has resulted in 84 per cent of the workforce being locally qualified, and substantively this will continue to be the case. Point 3. (j)s account for just 3 per cent of the working population, and any increases will remain relatively small, only taking place within the approved 1 per cent target. Next point. This is entirely in line with economic growth strategies to improve productivity and skills and generate revenues to fund essential front line services. As Housing Minister, I am responsible for (j) approvals, and can give assurance that I take this responsibility very seriously. I exercise strict control - which is why numbers are so low - and will continue to do so. In fact, since January this year, I have refused 30 applications for (j) licences, because I am not satisfied they meet the current agreed policy. We monitor very closely the impact on decisions, especially on the housing market, where all the evidence indicates that (j)s have a very limited impact, with over 92 per cent of purchases being made by locals.

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:

I do apologise. The question was very late being put in, and it was the Statistics Unit who said 2 to 3 per cent, and that is why I directed the question through the Minister of Economic Development. Then, as I say, it was passed to the Chief Minister. It is reassuring to hear the Housing Minister say that he at the moment is very strict on (j)s. I know why this question was directed to the Chief Minister, because the Population Office comes under that, and I am afraid that the Minister will lose control when in the very near future we have a population register, and a completely different set of Ministers providing the acceptance of (j) categories. Is the Minister not concerned that he is going to lose control? The licences which will be (j)s are going to increase to at least 3 per cent of the working population.

Senator T. J. Le Main:

The issue is quite clear at the moment. I work with the Migration Advisory Group, which is Senator Ozouf , Deputy Gorst and myself, and we sift through all the information on Regulation of Undertakings; we share our meetings with the Economic Development Minister and vice versa. They share the information with myself as Housing Minister. Of course, there could be an issue. I agree that it is a concern that I have had in the past. I believe, Sir, that the way it is at the present, I show no concerns. I have to say also that currently the Chief Minister has a complaint that I am being too tough on (j)s, and at the moment it is an issue that we are discussing policy generally all round with the M.A.G. (Migration Advisory Group).

2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Could the Minister tell us, as a result of the loosening, the much lauded loosening of the requirements for (j)s to move into the property market, could he tell us how many have taken advantage of this loosening of the Regulations, and whether in his view it has led to the current red hot situation in the property market?

Senator T. J. Le Main:

I have no figures in front of me, Sir. I can get them. But it is not a great amount. I can assure the Deputy that we have kept a very strict eye on it, and it has not exacerbated or in fact affected the purchase of (j) properties by those we relaxed, the permanent (j)s that were being renewed over the 5-year contracts. So my department and the Population Office are very, very satisfied that it is not exacerbating a rise in prices or heating the economy in the purchases. But I will get the information for the Deputy and for Members.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Does the Minister not agree that there has nonetheless been a substantial rise in the number of (j) cats. being granted in the last 2 quarters of the last year, and furthermore, does he accept, as the Statistics Department does, that in the finance sector, whereas he quotes the overall figure of 84 per cent locally qualified, in the finance sector in the third quarter of 2006, the numbers were such that 75 per cent were locally qualified and 25 per cent, a rise in the proportion, came from (j) cats. and non-locally qualified in the finance sector, which was responsible for the largest proportion of expansion of jobs?

Senator T. J. Le Main:

I find that a bit difficult. There are a lot of figures there that I cannot put my hand to at the present time. All I can say, Sir, is that since 2001 the workforce on (j)s has increased to 3 per cent, but the locally non-qualified have reduced by 1 per cent. So it has not been at the expense, Sir, of the local qualified market. It has been at the expense of the non-qualified.

4. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :

Could the Minister explain exactly what is meant by locally qualified?

Senator T. J. Le Main:

Well, if the Deputy of Grouville is seeking to know what is locally qualified, a locally qualified person for housing purposes is currently 12 years continuous residence or Jersey-born, but if it is by the current Regulation and Undertakings Department it is 5 years.

5. Deputy J.A. Martin:

I am going to find myself absolutely agreeing with the Housing Minister, but I would ask him a question. He has stated just a few moments ago, Sir, that he has been basically - I think he said told off by the Chief Minister, because he has not been

Senator T. J. Le Main:

I did not say told off, I said there has been a complaint.

Deputy J.A. Martin:

Sorry, Sir, all right. The word was not told off, maybe that is too class ridden for even the Housing Minister. The Chief Minister was not very happy with him.

Senator T. J. Le Main: No, no. I did not say that.

The Bailiff :

Let us get to the question, Deputy .

Deputy J.A. Martin:

I think I am trying to get my point across, Sir, being the concerns I have, and we did have a chance when Deputy Reed brought a proposition a couple of years ago now to put the Population Office under the Housing Department and it was rejected. Given the concerns the Housing Minister has - and there are some concerns on this side - if this proposition was revisited would he support it?

Senator T.J. Le Main:

Well, certainly the old Housing Committee, of which Deputy Reed was a member and others, were concerned that of course it could be detrimental well, I suppose it could be the same with any Minister in applying policy; there has to be a degree of common sense, there has to be a degree of working within precedent. We did show some concerns that one person, probably similarly to the Planning Minister, who says too much power can be had by one person. I am confident at the moment that the way the Migration Advisory Group where in fact it is not one politician or one Minister that is administering the Regulations but - as I say we have the Chief Minister's Assistant, Deputy Gorst and the Economic Development Minister - I am confident that if that is applied in the future with assistance to the Minster that it can be applied correctly, in my view.

6. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

Understanding locally-qualified and understanding these essential people to our economy, as said by the Housing Minister in his previous answer, locally-qualified refers to 12 years from housing purposes and 5 years from employment, what are the numbers of (j) category employees that have become locally-qualified that no longer show up on those statistics? Is the Minister able to produce for the Assembly the numbers of people that are gaining access to Jersey's (j) category market, which as I understand - and can he correct me if I am wrong - will, under the new immigration rules, be legitimately able to purchase a house due to their extension of employment day one.

Senator T.J. Le Main:

It is fairly complicated, but I would be very happy if Members - including the Deputy - would put any of these issues in writing to me and I am very happy to make a statement at the next States' sitting clarifying or giving the answers to the issue. But I would not like to be caught out in guessing something because the issues change very quickly and the figures are a moving target all the time. But I can give an assurance to this Assembly that I do not give out (j) licences lightly, and as I say, since January this year 30 applications have been refused because they either do not meet the criteria or people are trying to find a quick way into purchase property and we are very, very strict, and I have the full support currently of the M.A.G. group - Senator Ozouf and Deputy Gorst - and I am pretty sure that the Chief Minister would support us on that.

7. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

Is the Minster still not able to answer that policy issue, because it does not surely need research to understand the policy of whether or not somebody that is eligible to enter the workplace as a (j) category is eligible to purchase day one?

Senator T.J. Le Main:

A person on a 5-year contract can currently purchase a property under share transfer. At the end of the 5-year contract that property has to be sold out of the company and that person has to move out of the property.

Senator F.H. Walker :

Could I just say for the record I am not the least bit happy with the Housing Minister, in fact I am positively ecstatic.

The Bailiff :

We come next to a question by Deputy Southern of the Minister for Economic Development.

6. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Economic Development regarding proposals to reduce support for the tourism as industry outlinedin his draft 2008 Departmental Business Plan:

Further to his written answers on 17th April 2007, will the Minister advise Members whether he proposes to reduce support for the tourism industry by around 30 per cent by 2010 as outlined in his draft 2008 Departmental Business Plan, and if so, why?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):

I will not want to be a broken record, but I refer the Assembly to the answers that I gave to Deputy Southern a few moments ago; the draft reallocations are not designed to represent decreased support for the tourism industry, neither should they be taken by the Deputy in any way of a lack of my support for the tourism industry. My department intends to increase the support to tourism by investment and co-ordination in, for example, the air and sea transport development area, coordination of marketing activity, stimulating inward and outward investment and numerous other new business support initiatives and outlined in the economic growth plan. I would just say to him, H.D. Ferries, the new passenger-only service from France; the new investment with the Normandy French link; 6-daily service with British Airways, 7 at the weekend; increased capacity on Flybe; Thompson Fly arriving from Luton today and Cardiff; B.M.I. services to Heathrow, that is commitment for tourism, as well as the new website that we are developing. I am delighted with the work that my department is doing, providing better value for money, which I hope is going to yield better results for the tourism economy.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Thank you, at least it was a different answer, Sir, but to claim success for issues which are nothing to do with his department, H.D. Ferries decided to come here because of a business decision by H.D. Ferries, et cetera. To claim success for his department and himself is completely ludicrous. I am glad though to notice that I am to understand that a change in a column of figures from £5.9 million to tourism in 2007 to £4.1 million by 2010 to tourism; £5.9 million to £4.1 million is not a cut. I accept his assurance that these figures do not represent a cut.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I do not claim success with H.D. Ferries, I do claim success in putting the right environment, which gives the confidence for people to come and invest in Jersey. I do claim departmental success in making some things happen, such as B.M.I. Other things are happening because we are putting up a clear sign that we are open for business, that we are determined to ensure that there is a future success of the tourism economy, and in that regard I do claim success for creating the right climate. As far as the direct money is concerned, he will know from the column of figures that he has - and again I ask him to come and talk to ask about them - he will see money moving from direct tourism marketing into route development, that is the way you bring people to Jersey, and that is the future of the tourism industry.

2. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Notwithstanding the Minister's comments about the development of infrastructure, would he not agree with me that what is still, I think, called "event-led tourism" is extremely important to what Jersey offers the tourists? Would he not agree furthermore that last week's stage of the Tour de Bretagne in Jersey was extremely good expenditure of his budget, and would he not confirm that these kind of events such as the Battle of Flowers, the Battle of Britain, the Band of the Island of Jersey, sporting and cultural activities on-Island are a crucial part of our tourism offer, and that he really needs to make sure that this cut we are talking about does not affect the activities of groups such as the ones I have mentioned?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I welcome the question from the Constable because he knows very well my views that event-led tourism has a vital role in being the magnet to bringing people to Jersey. I got my fingers burnt last year by increasing the funding for event-led tourism, overturning a previous Economic Development Committee's decision not to do so. I support the Tour de Bretagne, I support the Battle of Flowers, the International Air Display, and for the first time Tourism has gone out and marketed the Island for next week's Liberation Day celebrations. So, yes, he is absolutely right; event-led tourism is the way to get people on those services that I was talking away, and they get my department's full support.