States Meeting Transcript - 23/10/2007

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT

TUESDAY, 23rd OCTOBER 2007

QUESTIONS......................................................................................7

1. Written Questions........................................................................7

1. TO THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE BY DEPUTY

S.C. FERGUSON OF ST. BRELADE REGARDING SCHOOL EXAMINATION RESULTS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS:...........................................7

2. TO THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY DEPUTY

S.S.P.A. POWER OF ST. BRELADE REGARDING THE REPLACEMENT OF A CRANE ON THE NEW NORTH QUAY:..............................................10

3. TO THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE BY DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT REGARDING THE WAY IN WHICH THE IMPACT OF TEACHING CHILDREN WHOSE FIRST LANGUAGE IS NOT ENGLISH IS MONITORED IN SCHOOLS: ..........................................11
4. TO THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS BY DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT REGARDING ACCESS TO LANDLINE AND MOBILE TELEPHONE INFORMATION:......................................................................12
5. TO THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY DEPUTY

G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT REGARDING EXPENDITURE AT THE AIRPORT AND HARBOURS DETAILED IN THE ANNUAL BUSINESS PLAN 2008:...................................................................................13

6. TO THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING BY DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF

ST. HELIER REGARDING THE CONTENT OF ARREARS LETTERS SENT TO TENANTS: ............................................................................13

7. TO THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY DEPUTY S.C. FERGUSON OF ST. BRELADE REGARDING FREE COMPETITION BETWEEN LOCAL AND OVERSEAS COMPANIES:............................................17
8. TO THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT REGARDING THE OPERATIONAL LIMITATIONS OF WAVEPIERCER VESSELS: ......................................................17

2. Oral Questions...........................................................................18

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding the plans for the States Property Company and the appointment of a Chairman of the Waterfront Enterprise Board (W.E.B.), or its successor, for the long-term:.........................18 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................18

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................18
2. Deputy A. Breckon of St. Saviour:......................................................18
3. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................19
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................19

2. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the allocation of a carry forward of £1,289,000 to the Education, Sport and Culture Department:....................................................................19 Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):........................19

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................20
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................20
   3. Deputy J.A. Martin of the Minister for Housing regarding what he meant by zero tolerance' on rent arrears:..............................................................20 Senator T.J. Le Main (The Minister for Housing): ............................................20

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................20
2. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................21
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier : ..................................................21
   4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding progress made towards the development of youth facilities, including a skateboard park, on the Waterfront:.............................................................................21 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................21

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................22

2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................22
3. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................22

5. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the future usage of the former Tourism Office at the Weighbridge and Liberation Square: .........................................................................................22 Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):...........................22

1. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................23
2. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................23

6. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the replacement of cladding at Le Rocquier School:..........................23 Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):........................23

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................23
2. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................24

7. Deputy S. Power of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the monitoring of fares for cars and passengers on the St. Helier -St. Malo route by the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority:..................................................................24 Deputy A.J.H. Maclean of St. Helier (Assistant Minister for Economic Development - rapporteur):.............................................................................24

1. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................25
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................25
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................25
4. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier:..........................................................25

8. Deputy J.A. Martin of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding how many children in Jersey were estimated by his Department to be obese or receiving treatment for eating disorders:....................................................................26 Senator B.E. Shenton (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.........................26

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................26
2. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................26
3. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :........................................................27
4. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. John : ........................................................27

5. The Very Reverend R.F. Key, B.A., The Dean of Jersey:...............................27
6. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................28
7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................28
8. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................28

9. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the commencement of the consultation period for the plans for sheltered/lifelong homes:..29 Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):...........................29

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................29
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................30

10. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the processing of firearm licence applications:............................................................30 Deputy A.D. Lewis (Assistant Minister for Home Affairs - rapporteur):......................30

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................30
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................31
3. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour:..................................................31
4. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................32
5. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade : ............................................32
6. Connétable T.J. du Feu of St. Peter : .................................................33

11. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the necessary legislation required to establish a Police Consultative Group in line with Paragraph 3.2.1 of the States Strategic Plan 2006-2011:.................................................33 Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):........................................33

1. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................33
2. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................34
3. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................34
4. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................34
5. Connétable G.W. Fisher of St. Lawrence:............................................35

12. The Deputy of St. Martin of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the Human Rights compliance of the Draft Harbours (Administration) (Amendment No. 7) (Jersey) Law 200- (P.160/2007):........................................................35 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):............................35

1. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................35
2. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................35

3. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Economic Development:..36

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................36 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):............................36

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................36
   2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................36
   3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................37

3.3.1 The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................37

4. Senator L. Norman: ....................................................................37

3.4.1 Senator L. Norman: ....................................................................38

5. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................38
6. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................38
7. Senator L. Norman: ....................................................................38
8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................39
9. The Connétable of St. Brelade:.........................................................39
10. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................39
11. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................39
12. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................40

3.12.1 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................40

4. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Transport and Technical Services..................................................................................40

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................40

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):...40

2. Senator L. Norman: ....................................................................40
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................41
4. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:..................................................41
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................41
6. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................42
7. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................42
8. The Connétable of St. Peter:............................................................42
9. The Connétable of St. Brelade:.........................................................43
10. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................43
11. Senator F.H. Walker :...................................................................43
12. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................43
13. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................44

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICAL RESPONSIBILITY ........................44

5. Statement by the Vice Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel regarding the proposed sale of Jersey Telecom....................................................44

5.1 Deputy J.A. Martin (Vice-Chairman, Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):...............44

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................45
2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................45

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................46

6. Island Plan 2002: H4 Site No. 15, Samarès Nursery, St. Clement and future amendments to the Island Plan (P.95/2007)............................................46

6.1 Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement:.......................................................46

7. Draft Police (Complaints and Discipline) (Amendment) (Jersey) Law 200- (P.116/2007)..............................................................................46

7.1 Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):..................................46 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................47 Deputy D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence (Chairman, Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel):..................................................................................47

8. Draft Police (Honorary Police Complaints and Discipline Procedure) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Regulations (P.112/2007)................................................48

8.1 Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):..................................48 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................48

9. The Draft Goods and Services Tax (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.122/2007)...........48

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ....................49 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................50

1. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................50
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................51
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................51
4. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan of St. Helier : ......................................................51
5. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................54
6. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................54
7. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................55 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................56 Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (Chairman, Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel):.........................56

2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................56

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................56

3. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................57 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................57

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................57
2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................57 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................57

4. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................57

1. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................57
2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................58 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................58

5. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................58 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................58

1. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................58
2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................58 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................58

6. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................58

1. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................59
2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................59 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................59

7. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................59

1. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................59
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................59
3. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................59 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................60

8. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................60

1. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan:....................................................................61
2. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................61
3. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................61
4. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................61 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................62

10. Fields 848, 851 and 853 Bel Royal St. Lawrence : Committee of Inquiry - appointment of member (P.147/2007) .................................................................62

10.1 The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................62

1. Senator F.H. Walker :................................................................63
2. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen : ......................................................63
3. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................63 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................63

11. Draft Employment Relations (Jersey) Law (Appointed Day) Act 200- (P.154/2007)..63

11.1 Senator P.F. Routier (The Minister for Social Security):................................63

1. Deputy A. Breckon: .................................................................64
2. Deputy I.J. Gorst :....................................................................64
3. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................64 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................64

12. Draft Employment Relations (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Law 2007 (Appointed Day) Act 200- (P.155/2007)....................................................................64

12.1 Senator P.F. Routier (The Minister for Social Security):................................65 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................65

13. Jersey Financial Services Commission: appointment of Commissioner (P.150/2007).65

[Debate proceeded in camera] ................................................................65

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ....................65 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................65

14. Connétable D.F. Gray ofSt. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): .........................................................................................66

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................66

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:..............................................................66
   2. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................67

14.2.1 Senator L. Norman:..................................................................67

3. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................68

14.3.1 Senator W. Kinnard:.................................................................68

4. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................68

5. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................68

14.5.1 Senator T.A. Le Sueur:..............................................................68 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................68

6. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................69 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................69

ADJOURNMENT................................................................................69

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

QUESTIONS

1. Written Questions

1. TO  THE  MINISTER  FOR  EDUCATION,  SPORT  AND  CULTURE  BY DEPUTY S.C. FERGUSON  OF  ST.  BRELADE  REGARDING  SCHOOL  EXAMINATION RESULTS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS:

Question

Whilst agreeing that the G.C.S.E. and A' level results in Jersey are excellent, would the Minister provide details of examination results for all school leavers for the last five years; setting out the total numbers of students and the number of G.C.S.E.s obtained by each, with a similar breakdown for A' levels and any other qualifications such as N.V.Q.s? Would the Minister also provide details of the number of students leaving school with no qualifications at all?

Answer

To provide the data as requested would require significant officer time because of the large number of students involved, approximately 7000. The summary below illustrates trends in G.C.S.E. and A' level examination results over the past five years relative to the United Kingdom. It also shows the number and percentage of students in each cohort who have achieved no qualifications.

A Level results

Year 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 No of Students 361 405 433 467 450 No of entries 1020 1122 1265 1322 1314 Mean entries per student 2.8 2.8 2.9 2.8 2.9

% Entries achieving A-B

Jersey 60.1% 56.8% 58.0% 54.5% 61.2% U.K. 44.5% 43.4% 49.7% 46.6% 49.7% Difference 15.6% 13.4% 8.3% 7.9% 11.5%

% Entries achieving A-C

Jersey 82.5% 80.7% 80.6% 82.50% 85.3% U.K. 67.5% 69.0% 69.8% 71.30% 72.8% Difference 15.0% 11.7% 10.8% 11.2% 12.5%

% Entries achieving A-E

Jersey 99.1% 99.6% 99.3% 99.6% 99.7% U.K. 95.4% 97.8% 96.9% 96.2% 96.9% Difference 3.7% 1.8% 2.4% 3.4% 2.8%

% Students achieving five or more A*-C

Jersey 66.5% 66.7% 62.7% 66.0% 68.2% U.K. 50.4% 51.3% 54.3% 57.1% * Difference 16.1% 15.4% 8.4% 8.9% *

% Students achieving one or more A*-C

Jersey 86.2% 90.3% 84.4% 87.3% 88.7% U.K. 79.6% 74.8% 77.1% 78.8% * Difference 6.6% 15.5% 7.3% 8.5% *

% Students achieving one or more A*-G

Jersey 96.5% 100.0% 97.1% 99.8% 99.6% U.K. 94.8% 95.1% 96.1% 96.3% * Difference 1.7% 4.9% 1.0% 3.5% *

Students  leaving  school  with  no qualifications

Jersey * 10 6 7 5 Jersey (%) 1.0% 0.6% 0.7% 0.4% U.K. (%) 5.1% 4.8% 3.7% 3.5% * * Not available

All  2007  results  subject  to confirmation from NCER

All  NVQ  and  similar  results incorporated  with equivalent  GCSE and A level results

2. TO THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY DEPUTY S.S.P.A. POWER OF ST. BRELADE REGARDING THE REPLACEMENT OF A CRANE ON THE NEW NORTH QUAY:

Question

1. Would the Minister confirm that Jersey Harbours has ordered a new large mobile crane for use on the New North Quay to replace the existing fixed tripod crane and, if so, would the Minister inform members –

1. what the lift capacity and reach ofthe new mobile crane will be and whetherthe cable drum will have sufficient capacityto load or unload ships at low spring tides?
2. whether any strengthening or reinforcement will be necessary on the NewNorthQuayto accommodate the weight and size of this large machine and, if so –

1. what works will be needed and what the anticipated costs will be?
2. whethertheNewNorthQuaywill be closed for shippingpurposesduringthe period of any required works?
3. when the works will commence at the New North Quay and what will be their duration?
4. whetherthe Victoria Quaywillbeused for anyperiodof time to unload shipswhile works are carried out at the New North Quay, and, if so, where the existing vessels that moor onthe Victoria Quay will be accommodated?

Answer

Jersey Harbours has placed an order for a Liebherr LHM 250 Harbour Mobile Crane, to replace the scotch derrick on the New North Quay. This derrick is in excess of 30 years old.

1. The crane has a safe working load of 64 tonnes in heavy lift mode and 44 tonnes in normal mode. By comparison the existing scotch derrick has a safe working load of 35 tonnes. Part of the design specification included provision for the craneto be fitted with sufficient purchase cable to reach the lower hold of a ship at extreme low water.
2. The New North Quay has been surveyed prior to placing the order for the new harbour mobile. No strengthening or reinforcement is required for the existing structure. The working areas ofthe crane pads will be marked outto coincide withthe strengthening members that support the surface of the quay.

1. No strengthening works will be required, although clearing the quay will afford the opportunity to repair some working surfaces.
2. The New North Quay may have to be closed briefly for the unloading ofand erection of the new crane. A maximum of 2 weeks is envisaged for this purpose.
3. The crane is scheduled to leave the factory on 19th January. The Liebherr Logistics Manager is still working on a plan for delivery to Jersey. Approximate arrival in Jersey is expected mid February.
4. The Victoria Quay will be used for a period to unload liner service vessels whilst work is carried out on the New North Quay. This is already a working berth for other services and as such is kept available for commercial bookings made.Thewestcrossareawill be kept clear during this period. There are no permanent berths allocated in this area. Vessels moored thereare allowed todosoonthe understanding that they must move for operational vessels.

Question

2. Would theMinisterinform members whetherthecranethatwas inadvertently draggedupthe Victoria Quay by the Logos II is still in a usable state to unload freight?

Answer

During the berthing incident involving Logos II one of the harbour cranes was contacted by the bow and pushed a short distance down the quay. Damage sustained was superficial and repaired within 24 hours. The crane was subsequently inspected and has been in use ever since.

Question

3. Would the Minister inform members what improvements, if any, have been carried outonthe Victoria Quay to ensure the safe boarding of vessels on that quay, particularly adjacent to that part of the quay near the ice-machine?

Answer

There is a half-tide ladder provided for boarding vessels on the London Berth. Previously fishermen had attached an unsafe appliance to the bottom of this, which has now been removed. Following consultation with HSI signage has been placed by this ladder giving warning of its limitations. Jersey Harbours is in the process of placing additional pontoons along this berth for use by fishermen. This project is underway now. Access to these pontoons will be via the stems in the corner of the berth.

3. TO THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE BY DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT REGARDING THE WAY IN WHICH THE IMPACT OF TEACHING CHILDREN WHOSE FIRST LANGUAGE IS NOT ENGLISH IS MONITORED IN SCHOOLS:

Question

Would the Minister advise what monitoring, if any, exists to ensure that local schoolchildren are not disadvantaged as a result of classes progressing more slowly than otherwise would be the case due to allowances being made for students who struggle with the English language? Would he further give details of the extent of this situation and state whether he has any plans to alleviate the problem?

Answer

The Department for Education, Sport and Culture has a statutory duty to educate every child of compulsory school age who has a legal right to be in the Island.

Teachers are responsible for continually monitoring the progress of children through a formal Teacher Assessment process. The Department for Education, Sport and Culture monitors pupil progress at the end of each Key Stage 1 (Year 2), Key Stage 2 (Year 6), Key Stage 3 (Year 9) and Key Stage 4 (G.C.S.E.). The results of this monitoring and subsequent G.C.S.E. and A' level results indicate that pupils in Jersey achieve at a higher level than their U.K. counterparts.

The Jersey curriculum is differentiated to meet the range of educational needs in a class. Inclusive teaching methods are used to ensure that all pupils are catered for appropriately.

Students for whom English is an additional language are provided with extra support which is resourced centrally. The Department for Education, Sport and Culture retains an English as an Additional Language' (E.A.L.) team. This team was extended following a review in 2006 and now consists of two specialist teachers and four teaching assistants who work across the Island's schools.

The E.A.L. Team currently supports 146 children in 22 schools across the Island. The Department will continue to monitor the effectiveness of this provision and the impact of an increasing number of students with English as an additional language on schools.

4. TO THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS BY DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT REGARDING ACCESS TO LANDLINE AND MOBILE TELEPHONE INFORMATION:

Question

Following the decision of the U.K. Home Secretary to grant a right of access from 1st October 2007 to all landline and mobile phone call information to many hundreds of U.K. public bodies and quangos (including local councils), without the checks and balances applied in other European countries, and an intention to extend this to internet use from 2009 as well, would the Minister advise whether this will apply to telephone users in Jersey and, if so, how and what safeguards, if any, are in place for local residents?

Answer

The question relates to the recent enactment of the Data Retention (EC Directive) Regulations 2007 (SI 2007 No. 2199)("the regulations") in the U.K., which are intended to implement in the U.K., in relation to telephone calls on public landline and mobile telephone networks, Directive 2006/24 of the European Council and Parliament. This Directive is concerned with the retention of data generated or processed in connection with the provision of publicly available electronic communications services or of public communications networks. The U.K. regulations were made under the European Communities Act 1972.

The Regulations do not, however, grant a right of access' to phone call information referred to at the beginning of the question; they require such information to be retained for a period of 12 months. I understand that, under previous arrangements, communication service providers were required to retain information for six months. Access to the information by public authorities will remain subject to the controls in the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.

The Regulations will require public telecommunications service providers to retain communications data relating to phone calls - note that this does not include the content of calls, but such information relating to the calls as the number from which a call was made, the time it was made and the destination called. A full description of the data concerned is set out in Regulation 5 of the Regulations.

It appears that the U.K. has taken a decision not to implement the Directive in relation to internet communications, for the time being. Jersey is not obliged to implement the E.C. Directive but, as it will become the European standard, it is possible that consideration may be given to it in due course.

5. TO THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT REGARDING EXPENDITURE AT THE AIRPORT AND HARBOURS DETAILED IN THE ANNUAL BUSINESS PLAN 2008:

Question

With reference to the recent Annual Business Plan 2008, and specifically Summary Table E' –

1. would the Minister explain what the Telebag' system at the Airport entails and justify the £1,640,000 cost?
2. would the Minister advise why a new Pilots Vessel at a cost of £600,000 is necessary, given the age of one of the two current pilot vessels, and would he further advise whether it is proposedtosell either or both of the existing craft? If so, will the Minister undertake to advertise the sale to a wider audience than was the case withthe sale ofthe Duchess of Normandy' and state whether the funds that will be obtained have been taken into account in the proposed cost of £600,000 for the new vessel, or be in addition?

Answer

1. The sum to which the Deputy refers is partofthe overall costof replacing the existing hold baggage system at the airport, which was installed in 1997. The estimate of £1.64M is to replace the baggage conveyor system with its associated electrical, mechanical and software systems to ensure continued compliance with U.K. Department for Transport security protocols.

The airport is working with its partner airlines and ground handling agents to design an uncomplicated, cost efficient system that will meet exacting performance standards and threat analysis and resolution.

The system will be replaced during the winter season of 2008.

2. Pilotage Law requires for the provision and maintenance oftwo pilot cutters. The newer vessel referred to in the question was purchased in 1997. It does not have all weather capability and its engines are not commercially rated.It is proposed to sell this craft on procurement of a more suitable vessel. The vessel would be advertised for sale through professional pilot boat brokers and through the United Kingdom Harbourmasters Association. Funds obtained from the sale would be offset against the cost of any new vessel. It is essential to obtain a new vessel before disposing of the old one.

6. TO THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING BY DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER REGARDING THE CONTENT OF ARREARS LETTERS SENT TO TENANTS:

QUESTION

1. Following an oral question without notice on 9th October 2007, has the Minister made himself aware ofthe content ofthe "zero tolerance" letters on rent arrears sent out by the Housing Department and, in particular, does the Minister accept that the terms ofthe letter, containing words tothe effect that failure to bring the rental account to a nil balance within one week  "will result in action which will include the withdrawal of services such as ()disconnection of TV aerial and/or heating and hot water services where these are elements in your rent" are likely to cause unnecessary anxietyto those who receive these letters?

Answer

I am aware of the letters and have previously endorsed the zero tolerance approach in the Department's Policy in respect of this matter. This policy has been in place since January 2007. The policy is based upon a principle of early intervention and is in accord with best practice in the U.K. by Social Rented Landlords.

In its 2003 investigation into the Management of Rent Arrears by U.K. Housing Associations, entitled Housing Association Rent Income, Rent Collection and Arrears Management by Housing Associations in England', the Audit Commission opined that –

Good practice guidance in managing rent arrears is widely available and most Associations recognise the benefits of prevention, of early intervention and of firm but fair policies for further action. However, application of good practice is very patchy, with management resources focused on high-value arrears cases at the expense of prevention.'

This professional advice has been heeded. The Housing Department focuses as much of its resources as possible on early intervention and prevention, thus keeping those on low incomes from getting into unmanageable levels of debt in the first place. In the past 10 months this approach has reduced the outstanding arrears figure by over £300,000. this is a real success story. Let us not forget that this recovered money can be spent where it is most needed, maintaining homes.

Whilst firm action is advocated; that action must be fair. It is important to state that the letter which Deputy Southern has circulated, is the second letter, in a series of letters sent to advise Tenants who fall into arrears that the matter requires their immediate attention. Tenants who address their arrears have nothing to be concerned about. However if such correspondence is ignored, then the letter to which Deputy Southern refers will be sent. Given that the first letter has been ignored it is necessary to emphasise as strongly as possible the importance of addressing rent arrears and therefore the consequences of failing to contact the Department and make some arrangement to pay rent regularly and repay any debt. Any form of action is always carefully considered and is always the last resort. Indeed it is important to protect the position of the vast majority of States tenants who pay their rent and understand their responsibilities under their Tenancy Agreement.

2. Would the Minister state what consultation, if any, has taken place over the content of this letter with representatives of the elderly and vulnerable prior to sending the letters?

Answer

Although these letters are generated electronically, each letter is examined by the Officer responsible for the individual account to confirm that it is appropriate that the letter be sent. Only those who continue to fail to address their arrears after receipt of the first letter will receive the letter in question. Where the Department is aware of personal circumstances which might affect an individual's ability to pay, such as, hospitalisation, second letters will simply not be sent. In all cases where the Tenant is identified as vulnerable', consultation will be undertaken with the Housing Department's Assisted Living Team who in turn has access to local support agencies through the Supported Housing Group.

3. What measures, if any, does the Housing Department have in place to contact social services to protect the vulnerable in the case of actual disconnection?

Answer

The Department co-ordinates the Supported Housing Group which seeks to house vulnerable people who are then assisted to live independently with the support of agencies such as Probation or Health and Social Services. In some cases tenants do provide authority for the full disclosure of personal information to their referring agencies and in such cases rent arrears can be addressed through that medium. However, the constraints of the Data Protection Law apply equally to the Housing Department as they do to any other organisation and therefore the Housing Department is simply not at liberty to divulge financial information about clients to third parties without such authorisation. If actual disconnection ever became necessary, (and to-date it has not), all appropriate measures would be put in place to secure the health, safety and welfare of any vulnerable person. Were there ever any suggestion that disconnection might be prejudicial to health it quite simply would not happen.

4. Would the Minister inform members –

1. when the Department started to send these letters;
2. how many such letters have been sent in total, and
3. how many have been sent to the elderly and vulnerable?

Answer

1. When the department started to send these letters;

letters as a means of alerting tenants that their rent account is in arrears have been used for many, many years. The present letters have been in use since January 2007.

2. How many such letters have been sent in total, and

Only those tenants who fail to respond or otherwise act upon the initial letter will receive the second letter setting out the consequences of continuing to ignore the issue. Approximately 10 to 15 such letters are sent each week. No more than 600 of these letters have been sent in total.

3. How many have been sent to the elderly and vulnerable?

These letters are not sent to clients of the supported housing group and who are therefore considered vulnerable.

5. Will the Minister inform members whether any such letters have been sent to tenants with rent arrears of under two months, and of under £350 in total and, if so, does he consider this action is appropriate?

Answer

An initial letter is generated after the first missed rent payment. i.e. after a week for weekly payers and after a month for those paying monthly. The particular letter in question is the second letter and is sent out a week later if no communication has been received or payments made.

Letters of this type have certainly been sent out to tenants with arrears of less than £350.00, although Members must consider that for a tenant on a very basic income paying minimum rent, £350.00 could equate to as much as 15 weeks rent. As I have already said early intervention is vital to prevent tenants accruing levels of arrears which they would simply find unmanageable to address.

6. Will the Minister agree to stop this practice forthwith, and apologise to those tenants in receipt of this letter for any distress which may have been caused, and will he further assure members that no States tenants will have heating cut off during the coming winter months?

Answer

No. Any tenant who pays their rent as set out in their lease has nothing to concern themselves about. Further, I and my Department fully accept that tenants do, for a multitude of reasons, sometimes experience financial difficulties which might result in rent not being paid. The initial letter firmly points out that failing to pay rent is unacceptable and requires that the tenant rectify the matter immediately. That letter provides contact details for the Department so that the tenant can discuss the matter and if there are genuine difficulties, officers will assist with advice and where appropriate, establish repayment schedules to see debts cleared as quickly and as affordably for the tenant as possible. The Housing Department treats tenants in such situations compassionately but on the understanding that rent arrears cannot be ignored but addressed. The introduction of the zero tolerance approach has reduced the arrears figure by more than £300,000 since January 2007. Central to this has been the early intervention measures which have prevented many tenants from getting into unmanageable debt. Further evidence of the success of this approach is that no tenant has actually had their heating or hot water cut off. Such measures have not had to be employed.

7. Would the Minister agree to take steps to ensure that letters relating to rent arrears are amended so that they meet criteria similar to those set out in the Code of Practice on Payment of Bills and Guidance for Dealing with Customers in Difficulty, applied to utility suppliers in the U.K., especially with respect to elderly and vulnerable tenants (in particular paragraphs 2 and 4 of Condition 35)?

Answer

No. The Codes of Practice referred to are those which govern the activities of utility providers, specifically gas suppliers in the United Kingdom. The Housing Department is not a utility provider. For 40% of its tenants it does pay for energy (electricity, oil or gas) to generate heating and hot water which is then made available to tenants. Discounts generated from bulk buying in this way are passed on to the tenants in their entirety. Those tenants benefiting from this service are charged a fee alongside their rent. Therefore, when a tenant ceases paying rent or declines to enter into a repayment plan for their arrears they are refusing to pay for the discounted receipt of heating and hot water. Services they would normally have to pay for direct to an energy supplier. Any disconnection of heating and hot water by the Department would not interrupt or otherwise affect the supply of normal mains electricity, water and gas to the property.

The infirm and the elderly have nothing to concern themselves with regarding this Policy. They will be looked after. As Housing Minister I take great pride in doing just that. No, it is those that simply do not care about their rent and see the States as a soft option. Those days are over. The public of this Island would expect nothing less.

7. TO THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY DEPUTY S.C. FERGUSON OF ST. BRELADE REGARDING FREE COMPETITION BETWEEN LOCAL AND OVERSEAS COMPANIES:

Question

Would the Minister confirm that the Economic Development Department is insisting that free competition for contracts between local and overseas companies represents a level playing field, given the fact that after zero/10 it is probable that local companies will be taxed more heavily and also in light of the need to build up the skills base in the Island?

Answer

The Economic Development Department supports the need for free competition between local and overseas companies as this is an important element of the States Economic Growth Plan and is also an important factor in controlling inflation in our Island economy. Lower inflation helps all businesses in the Island to compete and you only have to look at the Island's recent inflation performance (with inflation currently below the States target) to see how increased competition can help to keep inflation down.

However, the Economic Development Department does not agree with the statement that after zero/10 it is probable that local companies will be taxed more heavily'. In fact, both before and after 0/10 local companies will continue to be taxed more lightly than U.K. based companies and their subsidiaries in the Island. The Department has yet to see any real evidence to the contrary and would be interested in any examples the Deputy has to show that local companies will be at a disadvantage.

Another key component of the States Economic Growth Plan is to improve the skills base through the Skills Strategy and this is being supported by the development of a Skills Executive. The Department is therefore fully focused on this task and opportunities for skills development will also be improved by sustained economic growth with low inflation.

8. TO THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT REGARDING THE OPERATIONAL LIMITATIONS OF WAVEPIERCER VESSELS:

Question

Following the sailing on Monday 24th September 2007 of a wavepiercer to and from the United Kingdom, when the shipping forecast was of a wave height of 8ft locally and 12ft to the north, would the Minister advise whether such seas are within the operating limits of the vessel, and further advise what monitoring, if any, takes place to ensure that vessels do not exceed their approved operational limits?

Answer

There were eight channel crossings undertaken by wavepiercers on Monday 24th September 2007. Two crossings were made between Poole and Cherbourg in the morning. Two crossings were also made between Weymouth, Guernsey, Jersey and Poole in the morning and a further two made from Poole, Guernsey, Jersey and Weymouth in the evening. The final two crossings were made between Poole, Guernsey, St. Malo and Poole in the evening.

Whilst the local forecast gave seas of 8ft (2.4m) locally and 12 ft (3.65m) in the north this service does not operate on local forecasts alone. Actual central channel conditions forecast for that day indicated 3.0m by midday rising to 3.4m by 1800 and then decreasing again to below 3.0m by 2400. These vessels are operated to a 3.5m significant wave height limit and were within limits on each occasion on that date. Strongest winds recorded in Jersey occurred between 0400 and 0600 indicating that a cold front passed through the Channel Islands area before either wavepiercer embarked on its first channel crossing of the day

The significant wave height limit placed on high speed craft is contained in their Permit to Operate, as issued by the flag authority. An operator who knowingly embarks on a voyage when wave heights are forecast in excess of a vessel's limitation risks committing a criminal offence.

2. Oral Questions

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding the plans for the States Property Company and the appointment of a Chairman of the Waterfront Enterprise Board (W.E.B.), or its successor, for the long-term:

Would the Chief Minister explain why the assurances he gave on 19th July 2006 to bring forward the plans for the States' property company to the States in September 2006 have not come to fruition and will he outline his plans for the appointment for a chairman of W.E.B (Waterfront Enterprise Board) or its successor for the long term?

Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):

Deputy Hérissier is quite correct. I did give assurances to bring a proposal to the States in September and I apologise for the fact that this has been delayed. I do now intend to lodge a proposition before the end of the year, hopefully before the end of November, but if the States agree to the proposal, I will then initiate the process to appoint the chairman of the new company and I hope that the appointments process could start in January 2008.

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Given the various statements the Chief Minister did make on 19th July, for example: "Following States approval, we will engage in a full advertising and properly constructed recruitment process to find the long-term chairman", would he acknowledge, Sir, that the current incumbent, given he was appointed in a situation of great consternation to certain States Members would he agree that the current incumbent - highly esteemed though he is - was an interim appointment only and that there will be a full and open process for the long-term?

Senator F.H. Walker : Yes, Sir.

2. Deputy A. Breckon of St. Saviour :

In reply, the Chief Minister mentioned a new company. I wonder if he could give the House some indication of what he means by that because I understand originally there was some discussion about W.E.B. being a body that would manage all States property. I wonder if he could give the House some indication of his line of thought.

Senator F.H. Walker :

This has all been put to the States previously but the bottom line is that there will be a proposition - as I said in my reply - coming to this House, hopefully in January, the main purpose of which will be to set up the new property company which I have referred to in this House on a number of occasions and which will take over the duties of W.E.B. and have an extended brief beyond that for the management of property on behalf of the States. That is well known to the House and will all be included in the report and proposition to be debated in - as I said - I hope, January.

3. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

It is just for the Chief Minister to clarify. He was guarded in his answer. Can he confirm to the House that he did not bring a proposition in September 2007 but it was promised in 2006? It was not just 2 months late. It was a year and 2 months late or will be more than that.

Senator F.H. Walker :

Yes, Sir, I can confirm that and no one regrets the delay more than I but we have come up hard and fast against the resource issue here, not least in the Law Officers' Department because there is a great deal of legal work to be done here on Articles of Association, et cetera, and we come up against a blockage. There are no 2 ways about it. I have apologised in my original answer to the House. I do so again but I am pushing to bring this forward with the utmost haste.

4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Would the Chief Minister confirm that the interim nature of the current appointment has hindered development at W.E.B. and it will only be when a clear picture is put forward of the respective powers of the Planning Minister, for example, that we will have a clear picture of the future of this company and of the role of the future chairman?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I do not accept that the interim chairman has hindered the development of W.E.B. - anything but. I believe that the chairman - former Deputy Gerald Voisin - has done an excellent job in that position, and the Council of Ministers is delighted with the progress that has been made in this respect. Nevertheless, I acknowledge the fact that it is an interim appointment and it has to be resolved at the earliest possible opportunity and I have already given every possible assurance that I can give at this time in response to previous questions.

2. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the allocation of a carry forward of £1,289,000 to the Education, Sport and Culture Department:

The recent report on allocation of underspends, entitled Financial Planning Disclosures for the 6- month Period Ended 30th June 2007 R98/2007, showed that £1.289 million has been allocated to the Education, Sport and Culture Department. Would the Minister please outline for what purposes this will be used?

Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):

It is difficult to give great detail in response to this question, given the time allowed in oral reply, but briefly, the sum represents the approved funds that were carried forward from unspent budget balances in 2006 covering all provided schools and Highlands College as well as the Instrumental Music Service and the Community Fund. Schools and Highlands College, which accounts for the majority of the carry forwards over £1 million, are generally permitted to carry forward positive balances in order to support expenditure items such as future contracts and school development plans. This is particularly important as the school and financial years differ and allowing carry forwards in this way allows schools to manage their budgets to reflect the differing periods. Community Fund, which was established with lottery funding, is permitted to carry forward its full amount, which currently stands at £123,000, until it is fully utilised. The funding can only be allocated to community sports initiatives according to the original conditions relating to lottery funding. A number of requests for support from the balance of available funding are currently being processed. The Instrumental Music Service has been permitted to carry forward a balance of just over £6,000. If the questioner or any other States Member wants more detailed information relating to these figures, my Finance Department will provide them with any further breakdowns required.

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

I wondered, Sir, if the Minister could indicate where the largest underspends were and were these underspends the result of judicious management of money or were they pure accidents?

Senator M.E. Vibert :

The largest underspends relate to the fee paying colleges and that is partly to do with the fact that some years ago, it was thought that the new Teachers' Pension Scheme was going to be part of P.E.C.R.S. (Public Employees' Contributory Retirement Scheme) and backdated to 2002 and the colleges prudently put aside extra funds for their portion of what would be the backdating of the pension funds. That has led to considerable carry forwards in the colleges about which I am in discussion with the Treasury as to how they can be used to help the colleges, particularly in some minor capital improvements.

2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

I thank the Minister for that answer but why was the money ascribed to the pension funds not needed for that particular purpose?

Senator M.E. Vibert :

The money ascribed for the pension funds was not needed for that purpose because it was discovered that the Teachers' Pension Fund could not be integrated with P.E.C.R.S. and not backdated to 2002 so, in this House last year, there was approval given to a new Teachers' Pension Fund which came in from a later date so that the backdated fundings were not required for their original purpose.

3. Deputy J.A. Martin of the Minister for Housing regarding what he meant by zero tolerance' on rent arrears:

Will the Minister explain what he means when he talks of zero tolerance on rent arrears?

Senator T.J. Le Main (The Minister for Housing):

This zero tolerance policy applies only to those tenants who ignore the fact that the department has corresponded with them by letter or by telephone and that they have failed to respond to making repayment plans or arrangements suitable to the department.

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:

Would the Minister accept that it is totally unfair that there is only 40 per cent of tenants that he can affect in this way; 60 per cent do not have their gas, their oil or their T.V. aerial included in their rent. They have a terrestrial aerial and so if a tenant owes the same money, the Housing Department are carrying out a lot harder sanctions on one tenant than they are the other.

Senator T.J. Le Main:

You have to remember, Sir, that the arrangements were made by the 40 per cent of the tenants who have utilities included in their rent that when they fail to pay their rent, they fail to pay their utility and their gas or electricity. Might I add, Sir, that no one has been cut-off from the mains electricity or gas if it is needed. Nothing has happened on that point. The point is that people have got to recognise that if they go into arrears through their fault - or not on their fault sometimes - they are at liberty to come and talk to the department to make arrangements to repay. It is ignoring the fact that they will encounter problems.

2. Deputy J.A. Martin:

Sorry, Sir, he did not really answer the question. This is not equitable across the board. When he said the Housing Department cannot cut-off mains electricity or gas, that is correct. Would he ensure to look at the utility policies of cutting-off elderly people and people with young children and at least see if their policies are the same because, Sir, I would suggest Housings are much harder and I would say not fair.

Senator T.J. Le Main:

No, Sir, the issue is we would not cut-off elderly people or families with children. That would have to be the absolute last resort and that would come to the Assistant Minister and myself to make a decision. No one will be cut-off until we have a look at it and we would make sure that it is in the best interests.

3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier :

Does the Minister know if his department will have guidelines for people who are in this position to go for a meeting with income support officers if they find that they are perhaps in a difficult position? Many people find even the attempt to pick up a phone a daunting task. Will the department be, in the future, helping these people who might be facing a difficulty in addressing their problems by introducing them to the income support mechanism?

Senator T.J. Le Main:

The department has been totally rearranged and, in fact, officers now deal with a very small number of clients and the officers are well known to the clients they deal with. I would rather hope that the message goes out again. Although we correspond on a regular basis, at least 4 times a year with newsletters and notes and meetings on a regular basis with all our clients that they are able to pick up the phone and speak to their housing officer, who is a highly professional, well trained individual with customer care number one in their vocabulary.

4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding progress made towards the development of youth facilities, including a skateboard park, on the Waterfront:

Would the Minister provide an update on what progress has been made towards the development of youth facilities, including a skateboard park on the waterfront and when these facilities are likely to be completed?

The Deputy Bailiff :

You have been asked a question, Chief Minister.

Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):

I do apologise for that. That was a necessary natural break [Laughter] and when Members get to my age, they will understand. [Laughter] Sir, the Education, Sport and Culture Department is currently carrying out a study in consultation with the Waterfront Enterprise Board into how to establish a youth facility on the Waterfront. An area of land on the southern end of the Waterfront car park has been identified as a location for a multi-purpose indoor youth facility, including a skateboard facility, and it is envisaged that this facility would be funded by a private developer as a planning gain arising from one or more Waterfront development projects. The E.S.C. (Education, Sport and Culture) study is due to be completed by December 2007 and will make recommendations to me and the Council of Ministers on how to take the project forward. I wish to [Laughter] Sir, Members may laugh but this is not very funny at all. [Laughter] I wish to stress that I am committed to ensuring that youth facilities are developed on the Waterfront and that these facilities are available as soon as possible.

1. The Connétable of St. Helier :

I apologise to the Chief Minister for making him rush his call of nature. Would he agree with me that it is vital that young people are involved in this process and are given certainty about the future of their facilities before the master plan for the rest of the Waterfront is unveiled?

Senator F.H. Walker : Yes, Sir, I absolutely do.

2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

Will the Minister be able to tell us whether or not the children will be able to access the facility free of charge as they can in other areas of the world where skateboarding facilities are provided?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I do not know the answer to that at this juncture. There clearly has to be much further consultation with the users and we will have to agree on how the facility is used into the future but clearly, pricing should not be a deterrent to the young people who will wish to use it.

3. Senator J.L. Perchard:

Would the Chief Minister agree that it is important that we are not too prescriptive at this stage about whether it is a skateboard park or a youth facility and that we are endeavouring to provide a place where young people, inter alia and on the new waterfront development, will be able to go and feel comfortable? Would it be a mistake for States Members or the press to assume that it is going to be a particular type of youth facility?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I would agree with that but commitments have been made, not least by myself and others, in the past that the facility would at least include a skateboard facility and I do not think there is any justification for moving away from that commitment, but it will not necessarily certainly be merely a skateboard facility. It is a youth facility that we are looking create.

5. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the  future usage of the  former Tourism  Office  at  the Weighbridge and  Liberation Square:

Would the Minister advise Members whether the future use of the former Tourism Office at the Weighbridge in Liberation Square will uphold the historical significance of that building and will he give assurances that business identification and signage will not occlude or diminish its historical uniqueness and that the use of the building on Liberation Day will not be compromised?

Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):

The former Tourism Building at Liberation Square is part of a designated Site of Special Interest and, as such, is subject to stringent controls. Planning permission was properly granted some time ago to remove the 1980s additions made to the rear of the building to enable Liberation Station to be constructed but most of the original building remains. I fully support my predecessor's decision in this respect. I am happy to give assurances to Deputy Power that neither the historical significance, nor the appearance of the building, will be materially diminished or compromised by the physical alterations or advertising and signage, all of which still have to be finalised through the planning process. I further undertake to ensure that no external illuminated signs will be placed on the building. I will do everything I can to ensure that the new use for the building does not in any way compromise the part this building plays in future Liberation Day celebrations. Indeed, I will write to the developers this week to notify them of this important issue and I thank the Deputy for identifying this important matter. It should be noted that the recently approved plans for the Weighbridge will significantly improve the opportunity to extend the Liberation Day celebrations because the area available to the public has now been hugely increased.

1. Deputy S. Power:

Can the Minister ensure through his role on the Council of Ministers that the building, while it remains vacant, remains in a presentable and clean state and that the frontage of the building, particularly the glass, is kept in a satisfactory condition?

Senator F.E. Cohen:

I will certainly do my best to ensure that the building is kept in good condition. It is a very significant building, both for the Island and, I presume, for the developers, as it is a key part of the site and I will certainly do everything I possibly can to ensure that it is kept in good order with the glass clean and looking in a presentable state.

2. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Could I ask the Minister for Planning whether he regards the new premises being occupied by the Tourism Department as an improvement on the old ones?

The Deputy Bailiff :

I think that that is a question too far in relation to the question, Connétable . Very well. We will come to question 6, which Deputy Baudains will ask of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture.

6. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the replacement of cladding at Le Rocquier School:

Members will note this question has been redirected. I had originally directed it to the Treasury Minister, Sir, as it was he who had made the application. Would the Minister inform Members whether the recent planning application for replacement of cladding at Le Rocquier School relates to the newly built parts and, if so, why the work is necessary, who will be paying for it, and what the cost will be?

Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):

Perhaps I  can explain why I  am answering rather  than the Treasury Minister.   It  is  because Education, Sport and Culture is the principal funder for Le Rocquier School. Property Holdings, which come under the Treasury, were acting as the agent and project manager for E.S.C. Of course, the majority of capital budgets are now directly managed by Property Holdings but in the case of Le Rocquier, the budget still remains with my department as the project was initiated before the establishment of Property Holdings. That said, in reply to Deputy Baudain's question as to whether the cladding relates to the newly built parts, the answer is no. The recent planning application does not relate to the newly built parts of Le Rocquier School. The application relates to the existing sports hall where  it is planned to refurbish the entrance and stairwell, replace cladding on the front elevation to improve heat retention, replace the existing boilers and install a multi-fitness room to meet the curriculum requirement for a fitness facility. The work will be paid for by Education, Sport and Culture from the project budget for the redevelopment of Le Rocquier School. The cost of carrying out all this work is estimated at £335,000 and it is provided for within the project budget.

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:

Is there any particular reason why this work was not carried out at the time that the rebuild was undertaken? Would it not have been more economical to have done it at the same time while workmen were on site?

Senator M.E. Vibert :

No, Sir, we had to use the sports hall and keep using it for a multitude of purposes while the new build was going on and therefore this had to be carried out at this time.

2. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Is it the Minister's intention to bring to States Members a post-completion report of any kind assessing the out-turn cost and the various other costs that have been involved in the project?

Senator M.E. Vibert :

Sorry, Sir, I was distracted. Could the Constable repeat the question, please?

The Connétable of St. Helier :

Yes, Sir, I was asking the Minister whether he plans to bring to the attention of States Members' and the public, a report into the Le Rocquier School project, complete with the costings and other add-ons that have been required?

Senator M.E. Vibert :

I am uncertain about what report the Constable is referring to. All capital projects have a report done on them and I am quite happy for any States Member to look at that report when it is completed.

7. Deputy S. Power of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the monitoring of fares for cars and passengers on the St. Helier-St. Malo route by the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority:

Will the Minister inform Members whether the J.C.R.A. (Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority) will be instructed to pay particular attention to the fare structures being charged by both Condor and HD Ferries and to investigate any new or unusual sharp increases in fares for cars and passengers on this route while HD Ferries are not operating the St. Malo route for the approximate 4-month period that they indicated they would not operate?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development): I have asked my Assistant Minister to be rapporteur, Deputy Maclean.

Deputy  A.J.H.  Maclean  of  St.  Helier  (Assistant  Minister  for  Economic Development  -

rapporteur):

I appreciate the Deputy 's longstanding interest in ferry matters and his understandable concern for consumer interests. The Minister and I are also very disappointed at the loss of HD Ferries' service this winter but can assure Members that Economic Development and Jersey Harbours will continue to work with the company to assist it to return to service as quickly as possible. There have been many occasions over the years when Jersey has been served by just one ferry operator and so this winter will not be unique in that respect. The fact that we have had just one operator in the past is one reason why ferry companies using the ramps are required to commit to a Service Level Agreement. Among other things, the Service Level Agreement is intended to provide some protection to consumer interests. The Service Level Agreement with Condor contains a clear requirement to seek Ministerial approval for increases to maximum public fares. However, there are currently no proportional methods of sanction against ferry operators who breach any terms of an S.L.A. (Service Level Agreement). However, Members will be reassured to know that the new Harbours Administration Law, that will be brought before this House in December, will seek to address this shortcoming. The J.C.R.A. reserves the right in law to conduct investigations into any suspected abuse of a dominant position. It can act whenever it has reasonable cause to do so in accordance with its powers under Article 26 of the Competition Law 2005. However, it is not appropriate for the Minister to instruct the J.C.R.A. how to exercise its powers. If there is any evidence of abuse, the J.C.R.A. is perfectly entitled to take such action as it considers is appropriate.

1. Deputy S. Power:

I would like to ask one supplementary question. The Assistant Minister will be aware that there is one Service Level Agreement in evidence at the moment and that one relates to a monopoly. Does the Minister really think that a Service Level Agreement is effective, based on what he has just said?

Deputy A.J.H. Maclean:

Service Level Agreements are effective as far as they go and there are clear limitations which will be addressed with the Harbour Administration Law which will be brought to this House in December. We are hopeful that, at that point, any additional concerns that the Deputy or other Members may have will be taken care of.

2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

I wonder if the Assistant Minister could define what is meant by abuse of a dominant position and could he state whether the Minister has come near, or, indeed, has acted on information that he has received about abuse of a dominant position?

Deputy A.J.H. Maclean:

Abuse of a dominant position. When one operator should take advantage of its position in a marketplace, clearly the J.C.R.A. has a role to play in this regard. No information has been brought to the department which would lead us to believe that there is an abuse in place. If we are led to believe there is an abuse in place, I am more than confident that the J.C.R.A. would choose to investigate such circumstances.

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Am I right, Sir, in inferring that an abuse is not a consistently higher level of fares with one operator as opposed to another, for example, and fares that remain consistently high when there is only one operator on the route?

Deputy A.J.H. Maclean:

All operators or the majority of operators running ferry services between France or the U.K. and the Channel Islands operate what is described as or is similar to a fluid pricing system. It is clearly difficult to define precisely where different pricing points are because prices change. The nearer to the time of departure that one reaches, the price becomes more expensive. It is clearly contained within the Service Level Agreement that the Minister has control with regard to maximum prices and, indeed, any change to the maximum price needs to be notified by the operator to the Minister in advance. There are 2 issues. It is not just about dominant position. There is also, of course, an issue of predatory pricing which can occur where there is competition on the route. That is another area which is clearly of concern and something that is watched very closely. We do not want a position where a market should become unsustainable and we lose all services altogether and clearly, with predatory pricing, where prices become uneconomic and it drives unfair advantage to one operator and possibly pushing another operator out of service is not a position that we want either.

4. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier :

I wonder if the Assistant Minister could clarify or enlighten us as to a procedure to draw any complaint or any attention of complaint to the J.C.R.A. Clearly, this is not one that the Economic Development Department or the Harbour Department seems to have responsibility for and therefore I would seek an assurance that there is a method in order to bring such complaint or queries to the attention of the J.C.R.A. for them to examine it in more detail.

Deputy A.J.H. Maclean:

Yes, it would be clearly open for, for example, another operator should they feel that there was a situation of either dominant position or predatory pricing to bring the matter to the attention of the J.C.R.A. and, in such circumstances, the J.C.R.A. would be bound to investigate. That would be the course of action I would expect to see evolve.

8. Deputy J.A.MartinoftheMinisterforHealthandSocialServicesregardinghowmany children in Jersey were estimatedbyhisDepartmenttobeobeseor receiving treatment for eating disorders:

Would the Minister inform the Assembly how many children in Jersey are estimated by his department to be obese and how many are receiving treatment for eating disorders?

Senator B.E. Shenton (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

Well, this is certainly a subject that has been in the news of late and it is a very important subject with regard to the future costs to the Health Service. How many children are obese in Jersey? The Health Department is currently endeavouring to build-up its database so that we can anticipate spends in health quicker than we can at the moment. We do not have the data for all Jersey children. However, we do have figures for a number of different age groups. For example, 5 year- olds, 144 children are obese, which represents 12 per cent of the population at that age group and 266 overweight, which represents 28 per cent; 14 year-olds, 41 obese, which represents 4 per cent and 193 overweight, which represents 19 per cent. How many children are being treated for eating disorders? Approximately 10 children are currently being treated by the Children and Adolescent Mental Health Services this year for eating disorders. Eight children presented with anorexic symptoms while a further 2 had other eating disorders. Approximately 47 children were treated for obesity in the previous year. The treatment rates, according to dieticians, are rising annually.

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:

Yes, I asked this question because of the reports in ages 14 to 15. I do understand there is a problem with obesity but I would ask the Minister to make sure that his department is not taking the eye off the ball of all eating disorders because they say, in the age group he has just commented on here, ages 14 to 15, obesity 4 per cent, overweight 15 per cent, 81 per cent normal. But the figures show, Sir, that between the ages of 14 and 15, we have 25 per cent of children who weigh between 4 and 7 stone. Now, obviously they may not all have eating disorders but what I am trying to ensure from the Minister, Sir, is that there is a problem at both ends and there is pressure on all our children, and especially teenagers, and I would say girls in particular that what they eat and do not to eat is very, very peer-pressured. So I seek assurance from the Minister that he would keep this in sight when his department keeps on about obesity which even leads to other Ministers saying that primary school children should not have a quart of milk, Sir, because that will lead to obesity. There are very worrying statements and there are very serious issues on both ends of our children's eating problems.

Senator B.E. Shenton:

I would agree with everything the Deputy has said. Eating disorders work both ways, obesity and under-eating. As a father of 2 teenage daughters, I am well aware of the different peer pressures and media pressures that young people are under these days and certainly with the examination pressures and the other pressures of life, it can have a very large impact on life, not just for them as

teenagers but this can be carried on through the rest of their life. It is something that the Health Department, as I say, is very, very aware of and we will be bringing out new strategies and new

directions with regard to the health of the public and, as I say, all I can confirm is that we do take it exceedingly seriously.

2. Deputy J.A. Martin:

In his answer to the obese children he said were being treated, he also said, Sir, the children with problems of anorexia and eating disorders were being treated by the Adolescent and Mental Health Department. Does this not send out a stigma to one side of the There are problems - over-eating and under-eating - but one is directed to the Adolescent and Mental Health Department. Does he think this is correct, Sir?

Senator B.E. Shenton:

I think the Deputy does have a point there. I think it does send out a bit of a stigma. I think part of the problem with people suffering from anorexia is getting them to take any treatment in the first place. It is certainly something I will take on board and I will have a word with the department about it.

3. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :

I would like to take up from Deputy Martin's point that there are people suffering at both ends of the scale, especially young girls with anorexia and I felt that the press headlines were unfortunate to say the least. Could I have the Minister's assurance that his department and he will do all they can to ensure that the press use terminology in a more sensitive way and maybe aim this campaign at healthy eating and better exercise, rather than obesity?

Senator B.E. Shenton:

Certainly the feedback I have had from members of the public from the recent campaign is that perhaps the message has not been put across as well as it could have been. I think, as every Member of this Chamber will know, that what you pass to the press and what is reported does not always weigh-up. It is a case of healthy eating and healthy lifestyle. It is not just about obesity or anorexia. It is about making sure you get the balance right and this is the message that we do have to get across to everyone and it is the message that we will be getting across to everyone.

4. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. John :

The Senator may or may not care to answer this question but I was just intrigued as to what is classified as obesity and what is overweight. If he does have the answer to that today, perhaps he could tell us. If not, later. The other thing was is he satisfied that enough is being done - both by his department and perhaps by the Education Department - in informing and advising, particularly young people, of this issue. I understand it is quite extensively treated in schools as public information. Is he satisfied that enough public information is being presented at the moment to deter people from coming up against this problem?

Senator B.E. Shenton:

We do have a number of healthy eating initiatives going forward and we are working on quite a few at the moment which will be released in 2008. I think, as with most things, we are doing very well but perhaps we could do a little bit better. In terms of what is obese, it is something to do with the body mass index. Over 30 is that you are technically obese but I am told that there is morbidly obese and other definitions to do with it. As I said before, it is about educating people about looking after themselves and making sure that they are the right weight for their height and they do enjoy a healthy lifestyle.

5. The Very Reverend R.F. Key, B.A., The Dean of Jersey:

I hesitate to rise when the subject is being overweight but would the Minister agree with me that there are so many pressures on young people, not least the obsession with parts of the fashion industry of regarding the ideal shape of the female human body to be not unlike the Planning Minister's preferred style of a mobile telephone mast? Can he also assure us that as well as the healthy eating programme, in conjunction with his colleague for Education, Sport and Culture, young people may be taught that their own sense of self-worth does not rest on their physical shape?

Senator B.E. Shenton:

My answer is obviously of course we will. The pressure from the media of losing too much weight is something that we are well aware of as is the genuine acceptance that being overweight is okay and I am just a bit more cuddly. We have to get the message across that there is a proper healthy weight and lifestyle that people should be leading. Just to give you some figures, an obese person dies, on average, 9 years earlier than someone of normal weight while a very obese person's life is cut short by an average of 13 years.

6. The Deputy of Grouville :

Would the Minister not agree that it is not just Education, Sport and Culture he should be working with about educating people but also to put over more practical initiatives and work with Transport and Technical Services and Environment and Planning so we can have safe routes to school and cycle tracks?

Senator B.E. Shenton:

I must admit I had a meeting with the Medical Officer of Health, the other day and she was berating me for the fact that we have been so slow in getting safer cycle routes for schools in place - safer routes for schools - because we have to encourage young people to cycle and to walk more. But I think it is also more to do with working with the retailers and the people in the restaurants and so on and so forth that sell the food to try and make sure that they direct mums or dads towards the more healthy lines and also in restaurants, that they serve more healthy foods to both the young and the old.