States Meeting Transcript - 18th November 2011

STATES OF JERSEY

OFFICIAL REPORT

FRIDAY, 18th NOVEMBER 2011

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS – RESUMPTION......7

1. Minister for Economic Development.....................................................7

1.1 Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.................................................................7

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:................................................9
2. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :.........................................................9
3. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier:.......................................................9
4. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................10
5. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.......................................................10
6. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade : ........................................................10
7. Connétable P.J. Rondel of St. John : ....................................................11
8. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................11
9. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:........................................11
10. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan of St. John : .....................................................11
11. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:..................................................12
12. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour : ..................................................12
13. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen : ......................................................13
14. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier : ............................................13
15. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade : ..................................................13
16. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................13
17. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour:..................................................14
18. Deputy S. Pitman of St. Helier : ......................................................14
19. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:..................................................14
20. Senator L.J. Farnham : ...............................................................15

1.2. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:.....................................................15

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................17
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................17
3. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................18
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................18
5. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................18
6. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................19
7. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter:...................................................19
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................19
9. Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary : ...................................................19
10. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................19
11. Deputy S. Power:....................................................................20
12. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................20
13. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................20
14. Deputy J.M. Maçon:.................................................................21
15. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................21
16. Senator P.M. Bailhache :.............................................................21

17. Deputy K.L. Moore of St. Peter:.....................................................21
18. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................22
19. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................22
20. Deputy S. Power:....................................................................22
21. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................22
22. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................23
23. The Connétable of St. John : .........................................................23
24. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................23

2. Minister for Home Affairs ..............................................................24

1. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:..............................................................24

1. Deputy S. Power:.......................................................................26
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................26
3. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................26
4. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................27
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27
6. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville :..................................................27
7. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................27
8. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................28
9. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................28
10. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................28
11. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................28
12. Connétable M. Le Troquer of St. Martin : ............................................29
13. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................29
14. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................29
15. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................30
16. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................30
17. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................30
18. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................30
19. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:........................................................30

2. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................31

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................33
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................33
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................33
4. The Connétable of Grouville :...........................................................34
5. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................34
6. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................34
7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................35
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
9. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................35

10. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:........................................................35
11. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................35
12. Senator P.M. Bailhache :.............................................................36
13. Connétable J.L.S. Gallichan of Trinity : ..............................................36
14. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................36
15. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................37
16. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................37
17. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................37

3. Minister for Planning and Environment................................................38

1. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:..................................................39

1. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................41

2. Deputy R.J. Rondel of St. Helier:.......................................................41
3. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................42
4. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier:........................................................42
5. The Connétable of St. Peter:............................................................42
6. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................43
7. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................43
8. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................43
9. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................43
10. Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity : .......................................................44
11. Deputy S.Power:....................................................................44
12. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................44
13. Deputy G.C. Baudains of St. Helier:.................................................45
14. Senator P.M. Bailhache :.............................................................45
15. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................45
16. The Connétable of Grouville :........................................................45
17. The Connétable of Trinity :..........................................................46
18. Senator L.J. Farnham : ...............................................................46

2. Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence:......................................................46

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................48
2. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................48
3. Deputy G.C. Baudains:.................................................................48
4. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................48
5. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................49
6. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................49
7. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................49
8. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................49

9. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................50
10. Deputy R.J. Rondel:.................................................................50
11. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................50
12. Senator P.M. Bailhache :.............................................................50
13. The Deputy of Trinity : ..............................................................51
14. The Connétable of Trinity :..........................................................51
15. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:........................................................51
16. Connétable S.W. Pallett of St. Brelade : ..............................................51
17. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................51
18. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.............................................................52
19. Senator L.J. Farnham : ...............................................................52
20. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................52
21. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................52
22. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................53
23. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................53
24. Deputy S.Power:....................................................................53

4. Minister for Health and Social Services................................................53

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................55 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................55

1. The Deputy of Trinity :..................................................................55

1. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................57
2. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................57
3. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................57
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................58

5. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................58
6. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................58
7. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................58
8. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................59
9. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................59
10. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................59
11. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................59
12. Deputy S. Pinel of St. Clement:......................................................60
13. Deputy R.C. Duhamel:..............................................................60
14. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................60
15. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................60
16. The Connétable of St. Mary : ........................................................61
17. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................61
18. Deputy J.M. Maçon:.................................................................61

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................61

1. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................63
2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................63
3. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................64
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................64
5. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................64
6. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................64
7. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................65
8. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................65
9. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................65

10. Deputy S.Power:....................................................................65
11. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................66
12. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................66
13. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................66
14. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:........................................................67
15. Deputy S.Power:....................................................................67
16. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................67
17. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................67
18. Deputy J.M. Maçon:.................................................................67
19. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................68
20. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................68

3. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................68

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................70
2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................70
3. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................71
4. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................71
5. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................71
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................72
7. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................72
8. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................72
9. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................73
10. The Connétable of Trinity :..........................................................73
11. Deputy J.P.G. Baker of St. Helier:...................................................73
12. The Connétable of St. Mary : ........................................................73
13. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................74
14. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................74

4. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................74

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................76

2. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................76
3. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................76
4. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................77
5. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................77
6. Deputy J.J. Maçon:.....................................................................77
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................77
8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................78
9. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................78
10. Deputy T.A. Vallois:................................................................78
11. The Connétable of Trinity :..........................................................79
12. The Deputy of St. Ouen:.............................................................79
13. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................79
14. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................79
15. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................79
16. Deputy S.Power:....................................................................80
17. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................80
18. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................80
19. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................80
20. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................80
21. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................81
22. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................81
23. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................81

5. Minister for Transport and Technical Services........................................82

1. The Connétable of St. Peter:............................................................87

1. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................89
2. The Connétable of St. Mary:............................................................90
3. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................90
4. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................90
5. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................91
6. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................91
7. Deputy G.C. Baudains:.................................................................92
8. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................92
9. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................92
10. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................92
11. Deputy R.J. Rondel:.................................................................93
12. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ...........................................................93
13. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................93
14. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................93
15. Deputy A.K.F. Green of St. Helier : ..................................................94
16. Deputy R.C. Duhamel:..............................................................94
17. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................94
18. Deputy T.A. Vallois:................................................................94
19. The Connétable of Trinity :..........................................................95

2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................95

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................96
2. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................96
3. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................97
4. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................97
5. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................97

6. Deputy A.K.F. Green:..................................................................97
7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................97

8. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................98
9. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................98
10. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................98
11. Deputy S.Power:....................................................................98
12. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................98
13. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................99
14. The Connétable of St. Mary : ........................................................99
15. The Connétable of Grouville :........................................................99
16. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................99
17. Deputy G.C. Baudains:..............................................................99
18. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...............................................................100
19. The Connétable of St. John : ........................................................100
20. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.............................................................100
21. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:..........................................................100
22. The Connétable of St. Mary : .......................................................100
23. Deputy S.Power:..................................................................101
24. Deputy G.C. Baudains:.............................................................101
25. The Connétable of Trinity :.........................................................101
26. Deputy S.Power:..................................................................101
27. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...............................................................101
28. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:..........................................................102
29. The Connétable of St. Mary : .......................................................102

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................103

[9:35]

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS – RESUMPTION

The Bailiff :

May I, on your behalf, welcome His Excellency to this second day of voting. [Approbation] Then we move straight on to the election of the Minister for Economic Development. We have 2 nominations. So I would ask that Deputy Higgins please retire with the Assistant Greffier. Very well then, I invite Senator Maclean to address the Assembly.

1. Minister for Economic Development

1.1 Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

2008 proved an interesting year to be appointed Minister for Economic Development. It turned out to be the beginning of the worst global financial crisis since the 1930s. We knew Jersey would not be immune. In such circumstances it was necessary to examine the very fundamentals of how the Economic Development Department operated, in particular to ensure we had the tools and structure to effectively support the economy in recession. As a result, during my 3 years as Minister, I have overseen an ongoing transformation of the department's functions. That must continue and accelerate if we are to effectively support businesses, protect and create jobs. To complicate matters we had to deliver a 10 per cent reduction in our expenditure as part of the Comprehensive Spending Review. It has been a challenging time to meet increasing demands from industry for more support, while having to reduce our budget. Nevertheless, we have successfully reduced our expenditure by cutting overheads as well as funding for some non-core activities; while, at the same time, finding other creative ways, such as outsourcing and private-public partnerships, to deliver services more efficiently and at a lower cost. One such efficiency we delivered, against some opposition, was the outsourcing of the lifeguard service to the R.N.L.I. (Royal National Lifeboat Institution). It saved £80,000 per annum in running costs but it improved the standard of service, removed most capital costs and, additionally, provided jobs for 4 locals who were trained to be qualified R.N.L.I. lifeguards. Some of those Jersey-trained lifeguards are now working in Australia, but will return to guard Jersey beaches next year. I am told the R.N.L.I. expects to train more locals this coming year. I have been privileged to lead a highly-professional and dedicated team at Economic Development including my 2 hard-working and, may I say, wise Assistant Ministers. Under difficult circumstances we have delivered some important initiatives. The highlights have included the introduction of a Depositor Compensation Scheme, introducing a new Intellectual Property Law, working with industry to introduce new financial services products to assist them to remain competitive and to diversify into new markets. An example is the Foundations (Jersey) Law, which Guernsey is now seeking to follow. Outside of financial services we completely modernised the 40 year-old gambling laws and introduced the Gambling Commission to regulate the industry to better protect the young and the vulnerable. We appointed

new leadership of the J.C.R.A. (Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority) to ensure a new Jersey focus to help create a more, competitive local economy. We even merged the Chief Executive role of the J.C.R.A. with Guernsey's Office of Utility Regulation, saving even more money. On the same theme, we appointed the Guernsey Airport Regulator to regulate the Jersey airport. We set up a joint Brussels office with Guernsey to lobby in the E.U. (European Union). We can and we must do more with Guernsey. We have reformed the Jersey Consumer Council with the help of Senator Breckon and we started to restructure the ports by appointing a group chief executive and an independent, private sector shadow board. This has already led to the merging of management teams at the airport and harbour to remove duplication and to reduce costs. I now want to see a strong business case presented for incorporation. We have delivered a new rural economy strategy which included adopting all bar one of the recommendations from the Scrutiny Panel which is led by the Deputy of Grouville . Turning to the future, I have, in the Draft Economic Growth Strategy,

proposed a new direction and a new approach to achieve a more diversified and balanced economy. This will build upon the strengths and leverage opportunities provided by, among others, a digital economy. These are not simply fine words. Over the last 6 months, upon my instruction, Economic Development has been developing a business plan for a new body to develop and promote Jersey's digital economy. I call it Digital Jersey. It would have a board comprised of industry leaders and an annual budget of £300,000. It would also be the ideal vehicle to leverage the proposed substantial investment in broadband infrastructure. The Economic Growth Strategy is currently out to public consultation. The final version will come to this Assembly for debate early next year and the key elements will be embedded into the States' Strategic Plan. Over the last 3 years the backbone of our economy, our financial services sector, has experienced unprecedented challenges and, lest we be lulled into a false sense of security, in my opinion, the period of greatest challenge still lies ahead. As Minister for Economic Development I have both the domestic and international role in supporting financial services. A key objective now is to make sure that markets and legislative development are given the highest priority. This is vital as speed to market with new products is becoming more and more critical if we want to stay ahead of our competitors. Finally, I will, as a matter of priority, review the relative roles of the regulator, Jersey Finance and Government and, if necessary, propose changes that allow all 3 organisations to best support the growth of our key industries. Now, closer to home, Jersey Enterprises was established in 2008 to support small and medium-sized businesses. In addition, Jersey Business Venture is funded by Economic Development and undertakes much the same functions. Following extensive consultation and agreement by the Jersey Business Venture Board, I want to close both of these bodies and create an entirely new organisation called Business Jersey during the first quarter of next year. Business Jersey would take the best from both of these organisations, yet sit outside of Government with a private sector board and be grant-funded. This is a much more efficient and effective model to support small and medium-sized businesses in the Island. On a similar vein, I want to move Jersey Tourism outside of Government into a new structure called Visit Jersey to be operated in a similar way. The clear aim here is to let the private sector run these services, which is, of course, their forte. Meanwhile, Economic Development would concentrate on policy, strategy, development of legislation and oversight of regulation. The delivery bodies that I have described are not intended as a method to cut funding but instead to ensure that every pound of taxpayers' money is invested and delivers its maximum return. I should stress that tourism is an essential part of a diversified economy. To emphasise the point, tourism accounts for 40 per cent of the whole of the Economic Development budget currently. In recent weeks and months, with the helpful assistance of Senator Le Gresley, I have secured an additional £450,000 for the Tourism Development Fund. If re-appointed, I will bring a proposition to open up the Tourism Development Fund to private sector investment and thus leverage the capital available for greater returns. I want to see a renewed emphasis on event-led tourism, not funded totally from Government handouts but supplemented by sponsorship. If elected, I will continue to support the Battle of Flowers and the Air Display but, in addition, I will be proposing that we provide a far

higher level of funding for emerging events which have a strong business plan such as Branchage. They will have to be events that can show self-funding capabilities within a defined period or which can demonstrate the potential to bring large numbers of visitors to the Island and thus economic benefit. Moving on, I believe that Economic Development should retain and expand direct responsibility for inward investment that currently sits with Jersey Enterprise.

[9:45]

Attracting low-footprint, high-value businesses to Jersey aids diversification and promotes  job opportunities for locals. In 2010 we attracted 92 inward investment inquiries, converting 37 into business licences and creating 450 job opportunities as a result. This year there have been a further 29 business attracted and a further 101 job opportunities created. Only last week I met directors from an online business from the U.K. (United Kingdom) looking to establish a headquarters in

Jersey. This business was set up in 2005. It already turns over £100 million. It sells services online internationally and would employ, initially, 20 people locally. We need to actively attract more of these businesses but we are competing with jurisdictions who offer a range of attractive incentives. Even the U.K. is setting up enterprise zones. I want to see a Jersey version. I want to see relocation grants to inward investment businesses tied to the creation of employment and growth targets. I believe a Ministerial taskforce should be established, chaired by the Chief Minister, to co-ordinate across departments a package of incentives to encourage business to expand and employ staff; a taskforce to cut red tape and encourage investment. For example, we are already discussing the Social Security employee and employer contribution holidays for businesses employing those under 25. I believe that to truly stimulate the economy we should be considering measures like equity investment or loans for start-up businesses who wish to expand. We need to give businesses greater one-to-one support with an expanded mentor scheme. Much has been achieved in what has been the most difficult economic climate for a generation. There are clearly immense challenges ahead. Continuity is essential.

The Bailiff :

We come now to questions.

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour :

Notwithstanding that excellent list of existing and proposed initiatives and, again, notwithstanding the protestations of all the Senatorial candidates as to their undying loyalty to the agricultural industry, would the candidate not accept that the presence of only 2 States Members at the recent major agricultural conference was a desperate sign of the lack of interest in that industry in this House and what does he propose to do to rectify that matter?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I agree with the Deputy it was disappointing there were not more States Members at that particular conference. The conference itself, I understand, was very positive. I myself would have liked to have been there but, unfortunately, I was unable to because of a pressing meeting with an international inward investment business and, unfortunately, my Assistant Minister who has responsibility was very unwell. But the industry itself is important. It has shown growth in recent years. In fact it is one of the few industries that has shown growth. I am fully committed, the department is fully committed and I think the rural initiative schemes and indeed the latest strategy demonstrate our commitment to the future of agriculture as part of a diversified economy.

2. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :

My predecessor, through the States Assembly, got agreement to provide £10 million to tourism, yet 10 years later only £2 million, at best, has ever materialised. What measures will the Senator take to rectify this situation?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I would like very much to have £10 million to help develop the economy. I think it would be extremely useful, particularly in the current climate, but we do have to be realistic. Money, unfortunately, does not grow on trees. What we have concentrated on doing is ensuring that we align the Economic Development Department to ensure that we spend our money as wisely as possible and get as big a return as we can for the investment we make. We have been successful getting more funding. The Tourism Development Fund additional money is one example. We will continue to work hard. I want to meet up with the Minister for Treasury and Resources as soon as possible, if elected, to try and get funding for Digital Jersey that I have referred to, £300,000. That type of investment is important and we will do our best to get as much as we can.

3. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier :

As the Minister is aware, I approached him about a potential project called Tall Ships on behalf of the Constable and some other bodies which does offer real potential for some economic development. I hear what he says but will he consider having an Assistant Minister just with the responsibility for tourism, because the perception is that we do not care enough about tourism and it is a perception I share?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I felt at the beginning of this term that tourism was so important that I concentrated on it myself. I felt that doing that gave demonstration to the industry how important it was. It is very important. However, as far as appointing an Assistant Minister in the future, that is a consideration that I would certainly give. I will think very carefully as to how we deploy the Assistant Ministers and the management team at Economic Development to get the maximum returns over the next 3 years, which are going to be very challenging.

4. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

Following on the theme of Assistant Ministers, the Senator made an excellent speech on the work of his last 2 Assistant Ministers. Can he confirm that his 2 new Assistant Ministers will be Senator Farnham and Deputy Baker?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

No, I cannot, I am afraid. I have made no commitment at all to appoint an Assistant Minister. Two people have spoken to me about the post and I have said if I am successful today then I am happy to sit down and talk to them afterwards, and indeed anybody else who is interested in this very important part of the States, which is developing our economy. I would be happy to talk to anyone but no commitments are made at this stage.

5. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

Given the continuous pressure from external forces and the recent turn of events in fulfilment, does the candidate think that it is time that we move towards a situation where our economic sustainability is based upon something other than a zero per cent tax rate?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I think the most important thing is that as an economy we need to be competitive. That is absolutely central and it is a central feature of the economic growth strategy that is coming forward. So we have to look to see what our most immediate competing jurisdictions are doing and align ourselves accordingly and make sure we are a step ahead.

6. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade :

In the candidate's excellent speech I was listening keenly to hear a reference to France. Can I ask the candidate if he could summarise in a few brief words how often he has visited either Cherbourg, St. Lo or Caen, how often he has spoken to the Conseil Général de la Manche or the Conseil Regional La Basse-Normandie and how would he like to prioritise what I regard as a big economic opportunity in improving and extending trading links with our closest neighbour?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

The Deputy raises a very important point. We have, of course and we fund the Bureau de Jersey which has offices in France and personnel in France. We continue to build links in all respects with our French neighbours and indeed we are seeing, from a tourism point of view, far more visitors coming to the Island. Indeed, developing those links and those visitors and the spend in the local economy is important. I have personally visited France over the last 3 years on 3 or 4 occasions. We have visited as a department far more frequently and indeed I used the services of the former Connétable of St. Ouen who was highly respected in the French regions and did a wonderful job as an ambassador for Economic Development and Jersey during that time.

7. Connétable P.J. Rondel of St. John :

If elected, what will the candidate do to put in place an improved shipping service for our travelling public whereby we get vessels that run on time without breakdowns, et cetera? Will the candidate confirm that the routes will be put out to tender when they fall due and not allow influences from outside the Island to dictate to us how our routes should be run?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

An air and sea routes policy is a key area of Economic Development. I agree with the Connétable that we have to continue to work hard. There have been problems with regard to our northern and southern routes with Condor in recent years. There have been great efforts by that operator to improve their services, notwithstanding their mechanical issues of late. We continue to work closely with them. There is an agreement in place, a service level agreement. We are looking to tighten that up when the routes come up for renewal in 2013. The decision with regard to tendering will be made at the latest by June of 2012. We are working towards a decision in conjunction with Guernsey but I can assure the Connétable that we will not be dictated to by anybody. It is the best interests of Jersey that I am interested in and we will ensure that we will deliver a service that meets that objective.

8. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:

The candidate has presented us with an impressive list of achievements and aspirations, but what progress is being made for the creation of the long-overdue Financial Services Ombudsman Service?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

That is a good point and a good example, I may say. We have been working with Guernsey on this matter. It seemed sensible that we had a Pan-Channel Island ombudsman. It was an undertaking that was given to this House by me and I can say that a lot of work has been undertaken. However, we are applying for legislative law drafting time. I would imagine that a realistic timetable is the beginning of 2013 for the introduction of an ombudsman but, to give some peace of mind to the Senator and to Members, the discussions have been around backdating. So whenever it comes into force, the effects of the ombudsman would be backdated to when the process and the scheme was first conceived, which was the beginning of 2010. That is the current thought.

9. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence :

We have just heard that £450,000 has been secured in the last few weeks for the Tourism Development Fund. I would like to know where that money has been found. Also the proposed annual budget of £300,000 for Digital Jersey Board; what will not be funded?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

It is a very good question from the Connétable . Ensuring that money works appropriately and the fact that it does not grow on trees is important. The £450,000 funding for the Tourism Development Fund was funds that came effectively from carry-forwards that we got permission from the Treasury to reapply to our budget and to put into the Tourism Development Fund. As far as Digital Jersey is concerned, the £300,000 would be a discussion I would need to have with the Treasury. What we wish to do is to seek the support of Treasury, bearing in mind the proposed investment in telecoms infrastructure, to be able to leverage that through this new body by seeking additional funding from Treasury. If that is not possible then we would need to look at our budget. I believe this is an important initiative and I think we would need to look at our own budget. I believe we probably could fund it, but we would have to make cuts elsewhere and that is obviously, in this current economic climate, not the right decision to be making.

10. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan of St. John :

I think we would have a bit of a problem if we were not seeing growth in the agriculture industry, Senator. I would like to just ask you, we have heard a lot about tactical initiatives and they are very good. I am very impressed, but I have not heard a lot about his longer-term strategic aims and I wonder whether he shares my vision for turning Jersey into somewhat of an intellectual and a skills centre of excellence? I believe that, personally, is a very good long-term strategic aim and I wondered if he shares that view.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I absolutely do. Unfortunately I only had 10 minutes and I barely got to the conclusion in any event. It is a very broad department at Economic Development, but skills and training are absolutely key. I form part of or sit on the Skills Executive with the Minister for Social Security and the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture. We have worked hard to develop skills and training. Schemes like Advance Work and Advance Plus have led to young people finding work, long-term employment. It is going to be even more important in the future that we deliver, not just demonstrate; that we can skill our young people to carry out the jobs in the Island and reduce the amount of imported labour that we have seen in the past. I think that is absolutely key. New industries and high-tech industries are a future for Jersey, which is why I have mentioned Digital Jersey as I have described it. The reason we have brought in the intellectual property laws was a reason. Creative industries is another huge area of opportunity for the Island and I could go on.

The Deputy of St. John : Older people as well, please.

The Bailiff :

I am sorry. No supplementaries, Deputy , because there are others who wish to ask questions.

11. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

Whether it is road fuel prices, food prices or postal services, will the candidate accept that competition in a small community does not bring down prices and that regulation is a better way forward?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I am afraid I cannot agree with the Deputy . I think competition and the J.C.R.A. has delivered examples where competition has, in fact, reduced prices. I do accept there are difficulties in some areas with competition in a small jurisdiction and certainly the J.C.R.A. has had to go through a learning process, ensuring that it becomes fit for purpose for an Island community. I think the leadership in the J.C.R.A., which I referred to in my opening remarks, demonstrates now we are no longer looking at things like international mergers but we are concentrating on the local economy and matters that are important to small/medium-sized businesses in the Jersey. Driving prices lower is important for consumers. Ensuring the economy is competitive is essential from an export perspective and we need to do more work in that area.

[10:00]

12. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour :

Does the candidate agree that the licensing legislation is long overdue for updating and, if successful, will the candidate make this a priority and if not, why not?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I assume that the Deputy is referring to liquor licensing in particular. He is nodding, so I take that as a yes. It is an absolute priority. The difficulty in the past is that obviously other departments have a great deal of interest and different perspectives on liquor licensing. From Economic Development we have the business perspective very much in mind. Clearly the Minister for Home Affairs will have the policing element and the Minister for Health and Social Services will be very concerned about the wellbeing of the local inhabitants. Getting agreement on these matters has not been easy but I can say that I have on my desk a proposed White Paper for a way forward. I felt it inappropriate in the dying days of the current administration to lodge that. My intention, if elected, is that I will do so very soon.

13. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen :

I would like to know what plans the candidate has to help local entrepreneurs develop their businesses so that they are able to maximise their contribution to the economy.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Well, the plans started with the introduction in 2008 of Jersey Enterprise. The creation of Business Jersey, which is bringing together the best of Jersey Business Venture and Jersey Enterprise, is there to support businesses on the Island, to help them to grow. I have listed some ideas about ways in which we can hopefully remove some red tape and bureaucracy. We need to remove barriers so the businesses can invest and so the businesses can grow. Ensuring that they have the skills and training necessary in the workforce by training our people properly, again, is an absolutely essential element. There is a lot that we can do. There is a lot we have been doing and this is an area, the small and medium-sized business development, that will, without doubt, underpin the future success and growth of the economy.

14. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier :

Will the Minister pledge to reverse the year-on-year cutting of the event-led tourism budgets so that groups like the Band of the Island of Jersey, the Motor Festival, the Battle of Flowers and so on can start to grow in size rather than being cut every year?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I thought I made a fairly clear intention in my opening remarks about my views of event-led tourism and, indeed, small events such as the ones that the Connétable has referred. I spoke only last night to the Motorcycle and Light Car Club president. It is quite extraordinary what small organisations do in terms of bringing people to the Island. He was telling me the number that came for the recent rally in the Island, the number of bed nights that that created. What we have to do, though, with our limited resources is make certain that we appropriately target our funding. There need to be good business plans and we need to work with organisations to ensure that we help them maximise the opportunities that they can, without doubt, deliver. Event-led tourism is key.

15. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade :

Would the candidate advise the Assembly whether he has an opinion on the reports in the business press of the success of the finance promotion arm of our sister Islands and whether he has any plans to review Jersey Finance perhaps to enhance a success in bringing new business?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I think what Guernsey is particularly good at is talking themselves up. They promote themselves very well in that regard. I do not necessarily think that the statistics we see coming out of Guernsey truly reflect what is going on, on the ground. We do have a very effective organisation in Jersey Finance. We have put more funding into them in recent years. We will continue to support them as we open up new markets and we look to develop in Asia, Asia-Pacific and so on. But I do not think we should be misled by what appears to be happening elsewhere. I am happy to learn and will always listen to and learn from good ideas that come from other jurisdictions, but it is not always what it seems.

16. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

Small businesses complain about the red tape. One businessman complains about the 48 different returns he has to make annually to the Government. What steps is the candidate taking to review the red tape?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I am really pleased the Senator asked that question. I also feel strongly about red tape and bureaucracy. I believe we do need to make life as simple and easy as possible for businesses so they can expand and grow. However, I will say to the Senator that I pushed my department to start a review of red tape and bureaucracy. We contacted all the major business organisations in Jersey to get their feedback, to find out where indeed they saw the problems. We waited 6 months to get a response, 6 months. I have just had it. We are reviewing it now and we will move on this matter and we will do it in conjunction, if I am elected, with other Ministers on the Council of Ministers, but it is not always Government that make mistakes. The private sector does as well.

Senator S.C. Ferguson:

They are too busy filling out forms, I think, to respond.

17. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour :

If re-elected, would the candidate be encouraging more low-cost airlines?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Absolutely. We are very proud of the network of routes we have, both to the north and also, to a lesser degree, to the south. International development of tourism from Europe and elsewhere is important. Obviously air routes are absolutely essential. Low-cost airlines: we have worked hard to get the likes of easyJet here. They have been expanding. We have been supporting them and we will continue to support all the other airlines in the hope that we can get further route expansion.

18. Deputy S. Pitman of St. Helier :

I would like to know what the candidate's plans are and what he has done so far to incentivise businesses to take up local people before immigrants.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

We have done quite a lot of work. Again, this is a cross-departmental issue. We work closely with Social Security. Clearly when businesses make applications under the Regulation of Undertakings and Development Law and they want an element of non-locally-qualified staff we make sure that they go down to Social Security. We make sure they go through all the appropriate hoops to target employing local people. We have to continue to do that. We have been looking closely, as a result of the threats to the low-value consignment relief industry, as to how some of those staff can be not only retrained but also redeployed. It is interesting to see that there are 2,500 non-locally-qualified individuals working in hospitality and agricultural areas. There are opportunities to get our locally- qualified people in to some of these jobs and we need to work very closely to try and join-up all those areas.

19. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour :

Does the candidate believe that the actions in the anti-inflation strategy have been fully implemented? If not, why not and what would he do to resolve this?

The Bailiff :

That is a warning, 2 minutes.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Sorry, I thought I was off the hook. [Laughter] As such, Sir, I am afraid I did not listen fully to the end of the question. I wonder if the Deputy could ..

Deputy T.A. Vallois:

Oh, dear. I will start again then, shall I? Does the candidate believe that the actions in the anti- inflation strategy have been fully implemented? If not, why not and what would he do to resolve this?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I think, in many respects, they have. I mean inflation is very difficult to deal with for the Island economy. A lot of inflation that we suffer here is imported and, as such, it is something beyond our control. We have, of course, worked to reform the Consumer Council. We work with the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority. All these areas will help to try and tackle the inflation. Inflation and the cost to the local consumers is a significant problem. It is rising and we need to do all we can to try and bear down on it and bear down on costs. Obviously rising salaries are an issue as well. Import costs are an issue. It is a matter that has got and will continue to get full attention of the Council of Ministers.

20. Senator L.J. Farnham :

The candidate mentioned in his opening speech that he is fully behind the formation of a body to market Jersey tourism. Can he indicate or assure the Assembly as to when this will take place? Hopefully it will be in 2012 as the industry is very keen to see this going.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

As the Senator knows, work has been ongoing for some time on this matter. We believe that great progress has been made and I would hope that at the end of the first quarter of next year we will be in a position to progress that plan. Clearly, from a timing point of view, we need to get it in as early as possible so we can influence the budgets for the following year.

The Bailiff :

I ask Senator Maclean to retire with the Assistant Greffier and we ask for Deputy Higgins to be brought in. I now invite Deputy Higgins to address the Assembly.

1.2. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

Yesterday the States appointed its Minister for Treasury and Resources and this morning you will choose your Minister for Economic Development. Both of these posts are critical appointments because these 2 Ministers run the 2 States departments which are responsible for the economic wellbeing of the Island for, without a sustained and prosperous economy, we will not be able to provide the education, health, public safety and social services that our citizens need and want or the standards of living that they both enjoy and hope to enjoy. As former U.S. (United States) President Bill Clinton once succinctly put it: "It is the economy, stupid" because if the economy is not doing well then nothing else will. Everything else suffers, including the political fortune of the individual politicians and political parties. Now, economists measure how well an economy is doing at a particular period or over time by using a number of different measures, the result of which is called the rate of economic growth. In Jersey we use a measure known as gross value added, which measures the value of employment - that is, the total wages of the workforce which is calculated by counting the number of workers and their rates of pay - and the value of the profitability of businesses based on the Island. Now, as Members are aware, economies do not grow in straight lines. The economic cycle can cause them to grow and contract, but the objective is to have a rising trend rate by which I mean an upward rate of growth over time so that we achieve higher standards of living for all our citizens. In the U.K. the trend rate is approximately 2.5 per cent, although I have said in a given year the rate of growth may be positive or negative. So how have we fared in Jersey? In the post-war period, and particularly in the 1980s and 1990s, Jersey's economy achieved substantial economic growth, driven particularly by the growth of the financial services industry. In the last 10 years, however, the picture has been different. During the last economic cycle, which is measured from the peak in 2000 to the peak in 2007, the economy

contracted by 0.5 per cent caused primarily by a 30 per cent fall in bank profits over that period, whereas the non-financial components of G.V.A. (Gross Value Added) grew by around 13 per cent. Now, these figures illustrate the fact that Jersey's current economic fortune are inextricably linked to its dominant industry, the finance industry, and the importance of bank profits in particular. When the industry is performing well the Island achieves high economic growth figures. Then when it is doing poorly we experience negative figures shown, as the following figures show. Between 1998 and 2000 the G.V.A. of the finance industry grew by 18 per cent in real terms and this was reflected in the Island's total G.V.A. which increased by 9 per cent over the same period; whereas, when G.V.A. in the finance sector fell by minus 20 per cent between 2000 and 2004 the total G.V.A. fell by minus 11 per cent.

[10:15]

But where are we now? The level of economic activity in Jersey measured by G.V.A. fell 5 per cent in real terms in 2010, again primarily due to the sharp fall in bank profits which were affected by record low interest rates being generated on their deposits. The F.P.P.'s (Fiscal Policy Panel) latest report suggests that we will record modest growth of between zero and 3 per cent this year but, as far as the future is concerned, they have revised their central estimate down in 2012 to minus 2 per cent to 2 per cent with the risks weighted on the downside. Now, economic forecasts are notoriously difficult to make and they are very much dependant on labour market conditions, average earnings, future path of interest rates, future regulatory changes, global financial markets and economic conditions, but the prospects are not good. In their latest update they stated that the global economic outlook has deteriorated markedly and that global economic growth figures have been revised downward so that the speed and extent of the global recovery is now more uncertain than ever and that this is likely to hold back Jersey's recovery, although it is hard to quantify the results. They say that the deteriorating international outlook suggests that the prospects for growth in measured activity in the Island in 2012 have been reduced. Their recommendation is that Jersey should plan on the basis of a global recovery that will be more fragile and more drawn out than expected and this is one of the consequences - this is not their quote, it is my quote - of having an economy based on one dominant industry. Now, the panel has also identified a number of other uncertainties going forward. One is the uncertainty of the future source of economic productivity growth, the path of international financial regulation, the assessment of the Island's Zero/Ten tax regime and managing the impacts of an ageing population. Now, they have said that the economic growth strategy that the Economic Development Department has produced contains some interesting ideas but that these would need to be translated into concrete proposals and given time to work before any impact can be expected on growth. So that is the context in which the

Economic Development Department will be operating over the next few years, but what is its role? I believe the role of the Economic Development Department is to support the economy and to help it achieve sustained economic growth. I do not believe it is the role of the department to pick winners but to create the right conditions where businessman and entrepreneurs can flourish. Now, this may mean that we provide seedcorn money for certain developments; we provide a legislative framework or other forms of assistance. While the Economic Development Department has been developing a strategy that concentrates on high productivity, low-footprint industries and hopes to develop the intellectual property, e-gaming and I.C.T. (Information and Communications Technology) industries, these will take time to develop and may depend on conditions in our major markets or the activities of our competitors. I believe that in the short term we could generate growth through event-led tourism, recreation fishing which, believe it or not, will generate even more money than the existing fishing industry generates, aquaculture and aircraft registration. Certainly recreational fishing and aquaculture will help develop a sustainable use of the sea and employment. Now, I am standing for this position because I feel that I have the qualifications, experience and knowledge to do the job and meet many of the challenges that the Island and the department shall be facing over the next 3 years. Throughout my working career I have worked in many of the areas that are covered by the Economic Development Department with, I think, the exception of agriculture - and I learned much of that on the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel which I chaired. Deputy Labey , for example, did an excellent report on agriculture. If am elected to the position I will be appointing an Assistant Minister who will have knowledge of the agriculture industry and act as a champion for them. Secondly, I am standing because I believe unemployment - except transitional unemployment where one person moves from one job to another and takes some time off in between - is an evil and because of that I desperately want to find ways to revive the Jersey economy and get the unemployed back to work. Thirdly, I want to help develop a sustainable, balanced and diversified economy that provides resilience against shocks and provides work and a good standard of living for all Islanders. Fourthly, because I have been unhappy with the political control of this department which has led to some waste and inefficiency, which, in the area of the airport alone, has cost taxpayers at least £1.5 million, and for their failure to support, genuinely, areas that could generate economic growth and employment. If I can expand on these points for a moment; in terms of my qualifications I hold a Higher National Certificate in Business Studies, a Bachelor of Science in Economics Honours Degree from the University of London, 2 post-graduate qualifications, a Purchasing Diploma and a Post-Graduate Certificate in Education, and I was a Member of the Chartered Institute of Purchasing and Supply. In terms of work experience, I have worked 4 years as a buyer, 2 years in the aircraft industry, 2 years with McAlpines at their head office building motorways, pipelines, office blocks and so on. I spent 18 years as a lecturer in economics, law and banking at Highlands College and I taught thousands of Island students on professional courses. That was followed by 12 years with the Financial Services Commission where I specialised in legal and policy matters and was responsible for producing legislation such as a Depositor Compensation Scheme and a Financial Services Ombudsman Scheme. The latter one we are finally going to get, hopefully, early next year and it is basically the one I wrote in 2003. I was also responsible for negotiations with other regulators and with Her Majesty's Treasury, the latter being when we were negotiating designated territory status

for Jersey-recognised funds.

The Bailiff :

Thank you very much, Deputy . We come now to questions.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

Was Jersey right to follow Guernsey and the Isle of Man in adopting the controversial Zero/Ten model and how would he have dealt with negotiations both with these Islands and the U.K. had he been in office?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

The Zero/Ten regime was effectively forced on the Island in the sense that when the various types of unfair taxation - international business companies, exempt companies - were deemed harmful the Isle of Man said they were going to use their V.A.T. (Value Added Tax) receipts to try and get a competitive advantage on the Island and both Guernsey and Jersey followed suit. I might add that the economic conditions have changed now and the Isle of Man is also in trouble because the U.K. has pulled back all their V.A.T. receipts, about £200 million worth. I do believe that, rather than following the policy we are at the moment, we should be negotiating with Guernsey and the Isle of Man to try and bring in, let us say, a 10 per cent corporation tax rate, which would benefit all 3 economics and stop the competition.

2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

Although we have excellent initiatives such as Advance to Work, what strategies would the candidate put in place to prioritise our young people in the workplace?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I believe that we have got to work upon this. There is nothing worse than unemployment because it destroys self-esteem. It also creates a situation where if people have been applying for 40 or 50 jobs and cannot get them they become demoralised. Kids do not get out of bed until late in the

morning and they think: "Why bother?"  The longer this goes on, the harder it will be to employ them because any employer, when the economy does pick up, will pick new school leavers and not want the others. Therefore, I believe that we have got to engage in various projects with both public and private sectors to get them doing extended work periods and pay them their income support while they are doing it so that they have got income and they can get training and also a reference at the end of the period. It is schemes like that I would like to pursue.

3. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:

Does the candidate support the current policy of devolving arrears of responsibility of the Economic Development Department to private boards and if not, why not?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

From a political perspective and an economic point of view, no. For example, the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel looked at the Public-Private Partnership for tourism and it just did not stack- up. In fact, when we spoke with both parties they were on different hymn sheets. They had different views about staffing, about funding and no one was going to guarantee the funding going forward. In other areas I am just not convinced. I will work with the private sector and if that is the best solution then, yes, I would recommend that they are put in that way. But as a general rule I think each case needs to be looked at on its merits.

4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

How will the candidate deal with the apparent rundown of the fulfilment industry and does he believe labour-intensive industries are, in any event, the way forward?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I think so far as fulfilment is concerned, if I am totally honest, I do not think we have got a hope of saving that industry, mainly because it is outside our control. I know that people have talked about legal challenges and I even heard on the radio this morning that someone was trying to get a petition in the U.K. Parliament. They need 100,000 signature; they had 100 after 4 weeks. The truth of the matter is the U.K. Government is concerned about U.K. citizens and U.K. business. They are not concerned about us. So I do not think we can help them. In terms of labour- orientated industries, we need them. Not everybody in this Island works in finance or as a lawyer or as an accountant.  We have to have jobs for everybody else and, therefore, some of the things I have mentioned, whether it be event-led tourism, whether it be recreational fishing, whether it be aquaculture .. there are other things that we can do to general jobs and provide employment for these people who are out of work now and will be out of work in the fulfilment industry.

5. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

Small businesses complain about the amount of red tape. One businessman complains about the 48 different returns he has to make to Government. What steps is the candidate taking to review the red tape?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I happen to agree with them. Even in the limited area of the Air Display or other things that I have dealt with while in the Island, I am amazed at the amount of red tape and bureaucracy. I get frustrated with it and I can imagine businesses get frustrated with it as well. So, yes, I would like to have a look at the forms and the bureaucracy that go with things to try and make things easier but that does not mean to say, as some employers will say: "Let us do away with employment rights and cut down the ability to hire and fire people." There is a degree to which you go.

6. The Connétable of St. John :

If elected, what will the candidate do to put in place an improved shipping service for our travelling public whereby, at the present, we get vessels that do not run on time and seem to have continual breakdowns? Will the candidate confirm that the routes will be put out to tender and not be allowed to be influenced by outside influences when the tendering gets put in place?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

As someone who has been affected by the poor scheduling and timetable, yes, I do believe that we need a better service than we are getting and I would put it out to tender. Now, there is the problem obviously; it is not a profitable route for 2. But we have got to have very, very good service level agreements and if they fail to meet them, whoever is appointed, then they are replaced.

7. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter :

May I ask whether the candidate, if elected to E.D.D. (Economic Development Department) and continues to run the International Air Display, sees a conflict given that E.D.D. sponsors the display?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I expected this question because we obviously had it when I was chairman of Economic Affairs. What I would do is speak with the Attorney General and Solicitor General and I would delegate responsibility to an Assistant Minister for any area that I would be affected or conflicted by. Therefore, it would not be my decision and it would be totally open and transparent.

8. Deputy G.P. Southern :

In a small economy like ours, whether it is road fuel prices, supermarkets or postal services, does the candidate agree that competition does not bring down prices, but a greater part should be regulation rather than competition?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I agree and, I must admit, one of the things I would institute is a review of the Competition Regulatory Authority which I think has let this Island down very, very badly. I know it has been a perennial sort of problem but the idea of shipping costs to the Island, why is it that we are paying so much in this Island for bringing goods to it? Why is it that retailers are charging the U.K. V.A.T. rate? They are not paying the U.K. taxman. They are absorbing those extra profit margins. Why is the consumer being ripped off? I would certainly be looking very closely at consumer protection issues and competition issues.

9. Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary :

A Guernsey Deputy was criticised recently for suggesting that visitors might find it hard to get the true Guernsey experience due to the high levels of immigrant labour in the hospitality industry. I would be interested to hear the candidate's views on the contributions made to the tourism industry by our own immigrant workforce.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

There are 2 questions here. I would say that many of the people who work in the hospitality industry do an excellent job and a lot of the work would not be done otherwise. But I am, on another level, concerned about employment in this Island and employment of locals. Therefore, I certainly am one of the people who is in favour work permits. It may not be popular with my colleagues but certainly the whole migration and population policy needs to be looked at.

[10:30]

10. Deputy J.H. Young:

The candidate has emphasised, rightly, the importance of recreational fishing. Could I ask the candidate to confirm to the Assembly whether he agrees that our commercial fishing industry is important to the Island for sustainability and, if he were elected, could he give an assurance that he would act to try and provide access to Guernsey under their new licensing regime?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Taking those in parts, commercial fishing and recreational fishing have a place in the Island and I would like to see both supported. However, one of the things I would do is take away from Economic Development is responsibility for the Fisheries Panel and I would hand that over to the Environment Department because I believe it is a resource that needs to be managed sustainably for both commercial fisherman and recreational fisherman. There has been evidence of over-fishing of certain species. So far as the fisheries thing would be with Guernsey, yes, negotiate with them but my understanding from what I have read of the thing is that there is provision for Jersey fishermen who have traditionally worked in the industry to get access to Guernsey waters. I know there has been hostility between the 2 and I have to look in detail at it and certainly if I felt that ours were being disadvantaged, I would up the cause.

11. Deputy S. Power:

Could the candidate give the Assembly an indication of how he might consider prioritising and improving our trading links with our nearest neighbour, the Normandy Peninsula, and has he had a chance in the last almost 3 years when he was on Economic Scrutiny to visit any representatives of the Conseil Général de la Manche or the Conseil Regional La Basse-Normandie?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

In answering the last question first, no, we did not but we had plenty of other things to deal with. However, I would say I would welcome closer links with our French neighbours if not only to try and see if we can drive down prices on this Island and make a better deal for the citizens of this Island and businesses.

12. The Deputy of Grouville :

What does the candidate feel about the Economic Development Department doing what it can to uphold a States decision taken 10 years ago to fund tourism to the tune of £10 million when only £2 million materialised, and what would he do to rectify the situation?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I believe, as I think most Members know, very much in tourism. It is an important industry and certainly I am a firm believer in event-led tourism, and one of my criticisms of the Economic Development Department and the Ministers has been their lip service to this particular industry. There is a lot of work going to be generated and a lot of income can be brought into the Island. I mentioned recreational fishing. You can tie that in with tourism because it brings people into the Island who are spending. In my time, I have brought many propositions to politicians, including former Presidents of Tourism involving a whole range of activities that we could have for most of the year, and many of them are highly successful elsewhere and I believe they could be transplanted here. As far as the development fund is concerned, it needs to have proper funding and it needs also to be able to help private sector people as well as public and charitable events. We need to get more investment in the industry. It is certainly likely to be one of our important industries over the next few years while the finance industry and banking in particular is suffering.

13. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Much on the same thing, does the candidate see any potential for closer co-operation with Guernsey and perhaps the other Islands in promoting tourism as a joint operation to boost our economy?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I do, and I have worked with colleagues in Guernsey and the Isle of Man in the past in financial regulation. What I will say though is there is still an inter-Island rivalry and trying to get co- operation is very, very difficult. Not having been born here, I do not have the same hang-ups and I would hope that we might overcome some of the hang-ups they have in Guernsey about co- operating with us.

14. Deputy J.M. Maçon:

Does the candidate agree that the liquor licensing legislation is long overdue of updating, and if successful will the candidate make this a priority and if not, why not?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

The liquor licensing regulations are in need of revision, as are a number of other regulatory areas of the Economic Development Department, including dealing with take away operations which have become the bane of many Islanders because of their activities. Yes, I would be looking at the whole of the regulatory area and there are others as well. I would like to have a look at lawyers' fees which I am sure that everyone would appreciate me doing and I think they are grossly .. I was going to say extortionate but they will be certainly on to me tomorrow about that.

15. The Connétable of St. Lawrence :

Very sadly we have just heard from the candidate that our prospects are not good. What does he view as positive about our economic prospects?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I know I am developing, I think, a reputation for being a voice of doom. The truth of the matter is maybe it is the opposite of the spin that we have been having from everybody else. I believe in telling people what the situation is and I  might add that if I am elected, I will be open and transparent, and I will tell people what the facts are. I hate spin and that is one of the things that has destroyed the credibility of politicians in this Island. So in terms of what is good, I do believe it is the people that we have and the entrepreneurship that we have got on the Island. As far as finance is concerned, if you are basing your economy on one industry, your fortunes are tied to that and if, for example, the banking sector is depending upon the interest raised against bank deposits, we do not control that. Interest rates are determined by the Bank of England. There are also regulatory changes that are taking place determined by others. We have to fight for those things but what I would hope is that with the spirit and entrepreneurial skills that we have, we can develop new industries plus some of the ones I have mentioned and overcome the problems we are going to be facing.

16. Senator P.M. Bailhache :

May I follow up that question from the Constable, and press the candidate for his views as to whether he has any optimism whatsoever about the economic prospects for the Island?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I do, and okay, maybe I have given the wrong impression because when we talk about the finance industry it is diverse. The fund side has been doing okay. We have obviously businesses on the plus side and it is possible we may do very well on intellectual property rights and so forth. So there are areas that are doing better than others but if we look at the figures, we are going through a bad period - and even the F.P.P. says things are going to be rocky for a while - I am telling you the truth. It may not be appreciated but it is the consequence of not having a balanced and diversified economy. Had we had that .. look at Guernsey and look at the Isle of Man, they are doing better than we are and they are doing better because their economy is more diversified.

17. Deputy K.L. Moore of St. Peter :

My question follows on quite nicely from your  last point as I would like to know what the candidate would like to do to encourage new and diversified industries in our Island.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I think the main thing is to have an open mind and to work with the people who want to develop these new industries, and if things require seedcorn money, you have to almost experiment to try and find that. It is not the role of Government to pick winners. It is very, very difficult. I have seen examples when I was studying economics where Governments poured millions into different areas or into different industries and it failed miserably. It is creating the conditions. So it is facilitating people who want to come into other business and try to assist them. Some are going to work. Some are not but we have to try.

18. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

Could the candidate explain how he reconciles his observations about the strength of the Jersey economy compared with the Isle of Man with significantly lower G.D.P. (Gross Domestic Product) per capita and our public finances in Jersey which is significantly stronger than both Guernsey and the Isle of Man? How does he reconcile that statement that we are doing worse?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

We are doing worse in terms of relatively .. okay, in terms of banking, banking has generated - there is no doubt about it - large sums of money for the Island when the economy is booming and that industry is doing well. At the present time, their economies have not fallen in terms of G.V.A. figures. They have not gone as negative as we have and therefore and part of it is the fact the Isle of Man has got .. okay, they had a film industry, they have manufacturing. Guernsey has got other activities as well in that way, so not all the rates are quite in the same basket. We have the highest concentration of financial services than any of them.

19. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Could the candidate outline in more detail than his initial speech his vision for the future of Jersey agriculture and horticulture?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

In terms of agriculture, the strategy has been going forward but the industry feels neglected. They do not have a champion. There are questions about the figures. There have been a lot of issues around agriculture and we need to work with the industry to develop it. In terms of aquaculture, we do have, for example, the mussel beds and we have scallop fishing and there are other types. We could develop that and generate a lot more money than we are. In the same way that these .. okay, all this is not something that we could produce in a mass way but there are various types of shellfish or whatever that we can culture, rather than fish, and therefore we can make money for the Island. It is fish farming, yes.

20. Deputy S. Power:

Would the candidate support or will he oppose an application for a French supermarket group to open in Jersey backed with a daily ro-ro (roll-on roll-off) freight link to Cherbourg?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I think my inclination would be to say: "Yes", because we seem to be hung up on this. There are certain things we are told such as we have too many supermarkets but if this results in lower prices for consumers, yes, I would support it.

21. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

The candidate claims that he is an economist. Has he actually studied the accounts of the Isle of Man and Guernsey? Can he say why it is that our economy is less strong than both of those and does he not understand that both of those jurisdictions have deficits which they must deal with?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I have not looked at them recently. However, what I will say, yes, they do have deficits but they are not in the same position we are. We, I think, are in a worse position than they are, and yes, I have studied .. I have an economics degree. I have studied economics. I have a far greater, I think, understanding than the Senator has of economics.

22. Deputy M. Tadier :

We heard yesterday that 27 per cent of our housing stock is substandard but a waiting list of 425 currently, and so does the Minister agree that the success of a society should not be judged simply in terms of G.D.P. or in Jersey's case G.V.A. but in the round?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Yes, I do and in fact just going to the housing thing, I think if we are going to be investing and trying to help the construction industry, we are talking about investment, we are talking capital investment, and I would invest the money we have in housing. Let us do 2 things, get the construction industry working and house people who are in substandard accommodation or have been waiting far too long. So I would spend a lot of the money that we are planning to inject in the economy into that particular area of operation.

23. The Connétable of St. John :

The candidate may be aware that yesterday I put questions about commercial property at harbours looking for a rent increase of some 50 per cent. How will the candidate deal with these tenants given that Property Holdings have a considerable say in what the rents would be? As this comes under his remit, how will he deal with it?

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I think I would say that I will review the rises and look at what is going on. I am not aware of what the situation is. I will have to look at the situation but I am prepared to review it and I do think a 50 per cent rise seems to be rather excessive but I do not have the full facts.