States Meeting Transcript - 31st January 2012

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 31st JANUARY 2012

Road Traffic (Public Parking Places - Charges) (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Order 2012 –

possible rescission.........................................................................7

Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :...............................................................7 Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services): ......7 Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:..............................................................8 Deputy G.C.L Baudains of St. Clement : .......................................................9 Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier:......................................................9

QUESTIONS......................................................................................9

1. Written Questions........................................................................9

1. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING SPRINGFIELD STADIUM'S RESIDENTIAL PARKING AREA: ......................................................................9
2. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING REPORTS OF ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR AT SPRINGFIELD STADIUM IN THE LAST 2 YEARS:..................................................10
3. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE COST OF DISPOSING OF WASTE THROUGH THE ENERGY FROM WASTE PLANT:......11
4. CONNÉTABLE OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING THE INCIDENT IN SEPTEMBER 2011 WHEN THE STATES TOG WAS DAMAGED:.....................................................12
5. DEPUTY T.M. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE TOTAL NUMBER OF 1(1)(k) RESIDENTS IN JERSEY IN 2011: ..................................................................14
6. DEPUTY T.M. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE DECLARATION OF ELECTION EXPENSES BY ALL OF THE CANDIDATES FROM THE 2011 DEPURIES ELECTION:..........................15
7. DEPUTY T.M. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE PAYMENT OF THE BDO ALTO INVOICE RELATING TO THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT OF THE OPERATION RECTANGLE REVIEW:....15
8. DEPUTY T.M. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE TOTAL COST OF EXTERNAL INQUIRIES AND REVIEWS OF ALLEGED POLICE DISCIPLINARY ISSUES SINCE NOVEMBER 2008:..........15

9. DEPUTY T.M. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHAIRMAN OF PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING THE COMPOSITION OF THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION:........................................................16
10. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE CURRENT LARGE PROFILE OF THE RECLAMATION SITE AT LA COLLETTE:............17
11. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING RECENT SPEED LIMIT CHANGES AND THE CURRENT SPEED LIMIT POLICY:..........................18
12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE POSSIBLE 9NTRODUCTION OF BUSINESS PROPERTY OCCUPATION AND PAYROLL TAXES:..................19
13. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING ADDITIONAL POWERS TO CONTROL POPULATION UNDER THE CONTROL OF HOUSING AND WORK (JERSEY) LAW 201-:......................20
14. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE NUMBER OF INCOME SUPPORT RECIPIENTS CHARGED FOR G.P. CONSULTATIONS SINCE 2008: .............................21

2. Oral Questions...........................................................................21

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding a report on the taxi and cab industry:................................21 Deputy K.C. Lewis (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):....................22

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................22
2. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade:......................................................22

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................22

2. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the report of the Independent Police Complaints Commission into the complaint of Mr. Lenny Harper:.................................................................................22 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................22

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................23
2. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:.....................................................23
3. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................24
4. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.......................................................24
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................25
6. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................25

3. Deputy J.H. Young of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding Income Tax allowance for non-corporate owners of residential properties whose properties were not in a suitable condition for letting:.......................................................26 Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources):..........26

1. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................26
2. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:....................................................26
3. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................26
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................27
6. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................27
7. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................28

4. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the report commissioned by an outside media consultant in relation to Operation Rectangle:.....................28 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................28

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................29
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................29
3. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................30
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................30
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................30
6. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................30
7. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................31
8. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................31

5. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the publication of a letter which precipitated the suspension of the former Chief Officer of the States of Jersey Police:...........................................................................32 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................32

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................32
2. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................33
3. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................33

6. Connétable P.J. Rondel of St. John of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the qualifications of the Tug Master involved in an incident in September 2011: .......33 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................33

1. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................33
2. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................34
3. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................34

7. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Economic Development regarding licences granted under the Regulation of Undertakings and Development (Jersey) Law 1973 for construction contracts of between 3 and 12 months in 2011:............................35 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................35

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................36
3. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................36
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................36 Senator A.J.H. Maclean:......................................................................37

8. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding the abandonment of plans for an extension to Green Street car park:.........37 Deputy K.C. Lewis (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):....................37

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................37
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................38
3. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................38
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................38
5. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................38
6. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour:.....................................................38
7. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................39

9. Deputy G.P. Southern of The Chief Minister regarding the Guernsey authorities' "deemed distribution scheme": .........................................................39 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................39

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................39
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................39
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................40
4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................40
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................40
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................41
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41

10. Deputy J.H. Young of the Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s regarding whether the owners of vacant properties were liable under the Rates (Jersey) Law 2005:........41 Connétable J.LeS. Gallichan of Trinity (Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s): ..........41

2.10.1 Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................41

11. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the results of speed monitoring carried out by St. Helier Honorary Police officers on Victoria Avenue: 42

Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................42

1. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:......................................42
2. The Connétable of St. John : .........................................................42
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................43
4. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter:................................................43
5. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier : ....................................................43
6. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................44
7. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................44
8. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................44

12. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Chief Minister regarding the publication of the details of the contract with Matt Tapp Associates:....................................................45 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................45

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................45
2. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................45
3. Deputy S. Pitman of St. Helier : ......................................................46
4. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................46
5. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................46
6. Deputy T.A. Vallois:................................................................46
7. Deputy T.A. Vallois:................................................................46
8. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................47

13. Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the level of background checks undertaken before a candidate was proposed for appointment as a Commissioner of the Jersey Financial Services Commission: ..........................47 Senator A.J.H Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):..........................47

2.13.1 Deputy T.M. Pitman:................................................................48

3. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................48
4. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................49
5. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................49
6. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................50

14. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Housing regarding measures to ensure that habitable properties did not remain vacant for long periods: ............................50 Deputy A.K.F. Green of St. Helier (The Minister for Housing):..............................50

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................50
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................51
3. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen : ......................................................51
4. The Deputy of St. Ouen:.............................................................51
5. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................51
6. The Connétable of Trinity :..........................................................52
7. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................52
8. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................52
9. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................52
10. Deputy M. Tadier :................................................................52
11. Deputy M. Tadier :................................................................53

15. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the reform of the Children's Service:.......................................................53 Deputy J.A. Martin (The Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services) - rapporteur:....53

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................53
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................54
3. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................54
4. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................54
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................55

3. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Home Affairs ..............55

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................55 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................55
2. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................55

3.2.1 The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................56

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................56

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................56
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................56

4. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................57
5. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................57
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................57
7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................57

3.7.1 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................58

8. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................58

3.8.1 The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................58

9. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................58
10. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................58

3.10.1 The Deputy of St. Ouen:.............................................................59

11. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................59
12. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................59
13. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................60

4. Questions to the Minister without notice - The Chief Minister........................60

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................60 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................60

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................60
   2. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................61
   3. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................61
   4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................62
   5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................62
   6. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................63
   7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................63
   8. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................64

5. PERSONAL STATEMENTS..............................................................64 Senator A. Breckon: ..........................................................................64

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................66

6. Draft Maintenance Orders (Facilities for Enforcement - Convention Countries) (Amendment) (Jersey) Act 201- (P.184/2011)...........................................66

6.1 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):................................................66

7. Draft Policing of Beaches (Amendment No. 10) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.192/2011) ...........................................................................................66

1. Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):...................66

1. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................67
2. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................67

3. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................68

2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................69

7.2.1 The Connétable of St. John:............................................................69

8. Jersey Consumer Council: appointment of Chairman (P.195/2011)...................69

8.1 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):...................70

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................71
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................71
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................71
4. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................72
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................73
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................73
7. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................73

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS....................................................75

9. The Connétable of St. Helier (Chairman of Privileges and Procedures Committee):....75

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................75
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................75
3. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:..............................................................76
4. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................76

ADJOURNMENT................................................................................76

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

Road Traffic (Public Parking Places - Charges) (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Order 2012 –

possible rescission

Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :

I want to speak on an item relating to the Road Traffic Law. I have asked the Minister for Transport and Technical Services if he might consider withdrawing clause 3 which refers to hybrid vehicles and the discounted rate they currently enjoy in the car parks. I cannot bring a proposition here today. The R&O was lodged, I believe, on 20th January so there has been no time to do anything about this particular issue before then. It is, I believe, in the Minister's power to rescind this particular clause if he were minded to do so. If not, then I do notice that one of the propositions that has been tabled today by Deputy Baudains is asking for the entire R&O or decisions from there to be annulled but if the Minister was minded just to withdraw or rescind this clause 3, that is my interest in this particular R&O.

The Bailiff :

Of course, it is a matter for the Minister but you do have the right ultimately, Deputy , to bring a proposition annulling the whole Order.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Yes, but that has already been tabled but he can do this particular clause on the floor of the House today, I believe.

The Bailiff :

I do not think he can today on the floor of the House. He can certainly tell you what he is minded to do. Minister, do you wish to reply?

Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services): Am I able to do that, Sir?

The Bailiff :

If you wish to say whether you have any intention

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I am not minded to withdraw at the moment.

The Deputy of Grouville :

In that case, it will go to a full debate with Deputy Baudains' proposition annulling the whole thing, which is unfortunate because the States could lose out on the increase in car parking charges. The whole lot could go.

The Bailiff :

I am not entirely sure I am following you, Deputy . You were talking about one of the matters under B. I do not think that matter has been attacked by Deputy Baudains. He is seeking to annul Amendment No. 23 of the Road Traffic Law. That is Projet 10.

The Deputy of Grouville :

In that case, can I ask you, Sir, is clause 3 the hybrid vehicles clause in R&O, covered in Deputy Baudains' annulment or

I think we appear to be talking about completely different matters. Unless I have misunderstood the position, you are talking about R&O 12/2012.

The Deputy of Grouville : Yes, Sir.

The Bailiff :

That has got nothing to do with the annulment which Deputy Baudains is bringing which relates to the Annulment of Road Traffic (St. Helier) (Amendment No. 23) (Jersey) Order, so they have got nothing to do with each other. If you wish to attack anything about Road Traffic (Public Parking Places - Charges) (Amendment No. 3) - which is what I understand you to be talking about - the Minister has indicated that he is not minded to change anything so if you want to do it, you will have to bring a proposition. It has got nothing to do with Deputy Baudains' proposition.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Okay, I will do that, Sir, thank you. [9:45]

Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

There seems to be a bit of confusion here, they said we have not had a second roll call. Not asking me to do it, I was awake. [Laughter] On the R&O, I see where the Deputy of Grouville is coming from. The Order was made on 20th January and it comes into force on 1st February so is it my understanding that the charges will go up from tomorrow and if the Deputy wants to annul this and it gets passed .. I mean, that is the only way to rescind an R&O is to bring an annulment and then all the charges will go down again. It does not seem a very satisfactory way for the Minister to act. Maybe he should reconsider his position and bring this back with time. These could all go up. It is a matter of changing parking cards. I do not really know but that is the only way to deal with an R&O and it would be a full rescindment of the R&O because I had this under the Children's Law.

The Bailiff :

Minister, do you wish to respond? Deputy K.C. Lewis :

Perhaps the Deputy of Grouville could outline exactly what her problem is with the R&O but if it is helpful to Members, then I am happy to withdraw that element that the Deputy of Grouville is unhappy with and bring that back separately.

The Bailiff :

I think you will have to think about it and take advice. You have, in fact, made the Order and it is now simply being tabled so if you want to, in fact, disapply it, you will have to make some further Order but that is really a matter for you, Minister. I think we have taken this as far as we can really, Deputy . You must take this up with the Minister outside the Assembly.

The Deputy of Grouville :

It would be extremely useful if he would withdraw clause 3 if he were minded The Bailiff :

He cannot do that on the floor of the Assembly. He will have to make some further Order. He has made an Order and the Order presumably either has come into effect or is about to come into effect.

The Deputy of Grouville :

Okay, if he is willing to do that and if he is still adamant that he is going to bring that part back, then we can have a debate about it but thus far, with him lodging this on 20th January, this is the first opportunity this Assembly has had before everything comes into force tomorrow.

The Bailiff :

Yes, I think we have probably taken this as far as we can. This is simply for tabling at the moment. Deputy G.C.L Baudains of St. Clement :

Would you indulge me for a moment, Sir? This is a problem which has occurred previously and will no doubt occur again. I wonder if I could ask Ministers if they could give longer periods between their Order being announced and it coming into force if possible because it is unsatisfactory to have to annul something which has been in force for a week or 2.

Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier :

Could I just say that Privileges and Procedures are reviewing the internal workings of the States and will certainly take this into account in our review.

QUESTIONS

1.Written Questions

1. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING SPRINGFIELD STADIUM'S RESIDENTIAL PARKING AREA:

Question

Would the Minister inform members how many private parking permits and commercial permits are granted for Springfield stadium's residential parking area?

Answer

There are several types of parking at Springfield. There is no specific residents' parking scheme within the grounds. There are:

• 50 spaces for three-hour disc parking for people who use Springfield facilities during the day.
• 44 spaces let from 7am until 6pm from Monday to Friday for commuters who work in town.
• 10 spaces let to Leeward Nursery as part of their agreement to rent part of the building.
• 5 spaces let on a full time basis (24 hours a day for 365 days a year).
• 3 spaces are kept for residents who have their houses in the Springfield grounds.

In addition, ESC administers the gyratory car park, which is a piece of land outside the grounds and separated by the road. It is closer to the Robin Hood junction. This has 43 spaces which are let on a 24 hour a day basis for 365 days a year.

2. DEPUTY S. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING  REPORTS  OF  ANTI-SOCIAL  BEHAVIOUR  AT  SPRINGFIELD STADIUM IN THE LAST 2 YEARS:

Question

Would the Minister advise whether there have been reports to the police of anti-social behaviour in Springfield stadium in the last 2 years and, if so, would he outline how many there have been, when these took place and the nature of each incident?

Answer

Since January 2010 there have been 26 reported incidents to the States of Jersey Police which relate to anti-social behaviour in Springfield Stadium. In some instances, despite timely responses, there were no persons present upon Police attendance. The incident title is allocated by the call taker, and is based on their interpretation of the information they are being given by the caller at the time.

3. DEPUTY  G.C.L.  BAUDAINS  OF  ST.  CLEMENT  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR TRANSPORT  AND  TECHNICAL  SERVICES  REGARDING  THE  COST  OF DISPOSING OF WASTE THROUGH THE ENERGY FROM WASTE PLANT: Question

Would the Minister inform members the overall cost per ton of disposing waste through the Energy from Waste plant (inclusive of all plant operating and maintenance costs such as turbines, flues, buildings, etc; consumables (including any flue cleaning and heating requirement); ash disposal and the amortisation of the plant)?

Would the Minister further advise what income, per ton of waste received, if any, is derived from the sale of electricity or other specified form of energy?

Answer

The disposal cost per tonne must be treated with caution as it is based on estimated figures for 2012 and has the potential to vary significantly depending on the input quantity and quality of the waste.

Costs for 2011 will not give an accurate value for the cost per tonne because the EfW plant was being commissioned for the first nine months of the year and is still in its testing period.

For 2012 it is estimated that the cost per tonne of waste will be in the order of £110. This cost is net of an estimated income of £26 per tonne for the generation of electricity.

These costs are calculated on the basis of a predicted throughput of 71,100 tonnes of waste and ash disposal  in  the  engineered  pits  at  La  Collette.  Full  operational  costs  including  manpower, maintenance, materials and amortisation have been used and are net of predicted income from the sale of electricity generated. The costs do not include the delivery of waste to site, pre-sorting, recycling or shredding of waste.

4. CONNÉTABLE OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING THE INCIDENT IN SEPTEMBER 2011 WHEN THE STATES TOG WAS DAMAGED:

Question

What action, if any, has the Minister taken to establish how the Tug Master hit rocks with the States Tug on 2nd September 2011?

How was the Tug Master employed, who was responsible for vetting his application and has that officer now been disciplined and, if so, how?

Has the Tug Master been replaced and, if so, by whom?

Has the Tug Master's position been re advertised on-Island as well as in Marine Journals and, if not, why not?

Why did the Minister not advise the Assembly of the result of the inquiry before the matter was made public?

Why, at of the time of submitting these questions, has no formal statement been made on the subject by the Minister?

Is cost saving taking precedence over safety at sea?

Given that the Tug Master did not hold UK qualifications will the Insurance Company honour the claim or will taxpayers have to pick up the bill?

Given that the content of the Minister's answers to questions on this matter on 12th September 2011 and 11th November 2011 indicate that he did not have a full understanding of the situation within his Department, will he consider his position and resign?

Answer

What action, if any, has the Minister taken to establish how the Tug Master hit rocks with the States Tug on 2nd September 2011?

Exercising my powers under  Article 165 of the Shipping (Jersey)  Law 2002, as Minister for Economic Development I initiated an independent external investigation on 7 September 2011. That investigation was tasked to inquire into the circumstances of the incident and I am of the opinion that the published report answers that question.

How was the Tug Master employed, who was responsible for vetting his application and has that officer now been disciplined and, if so, how?

The tug master was employed through an independent agency, SeaMariner, on a fixed short-term contract between August and November 2011, after having gone though a full selection and interview process. The agency was responsible for putting forward candidates for interview who had the appropriate qualifications and experience to undertake the role.

The officer responsible for overseeing the application process has been the subject of an internal investigation, resulting in disciplinary action being taken.

Has the Tug Master been replaced and, if so, by whom?

Yes, and we have employed the temporary services of a relief tug skipper from Alderney.

Has the Tug Master's position been re advertised on-Island as well as in Marine Journals and, if not, why not?

As part of our current integration programme, Jersey Harbours will shortly be advertising for a permanent  and  a  relief  tug  skipper.  This  will  involve  both  on  and  off-island  advertising  in appropriate marine journals and is likely to occur in February 2012.

Why did the Minister not advise the Assembly of the result of the inquiry before the matter was made public?

Following the International Maritime Organisation's agreed Code  in these  matters there is an absolute  need  for  independence  and  freedom  from  political  influence  whenever  a  safety investigation such as this is carried out. I therefore made the report available for all to access at the same time - the public and States members alike.

Why, at of the time of submitting these questions, has no formal statement been made on the subject by the Minister?

As Minister, I agreed a formal introductory statement attached to the published report. Nothing else was needed as the accident investigation is not a political matter.

Is cost saving taking precedence over safety at sea?

No. Jersey Harbours is fully compliant under the Port Marine Safety Code.

Given that the Tug Master did not hold UK qualifications will the Insurance Company honour the claim or will taxpayers have to pick up the bill?

The claim has been settled in full by the insurance company. Since the report was made public the insurance company has asked for reassurance that the recommendations in the report have been addressed. Jersey Harbours have confirmed to them that eight out of the nine recommendations were  fully  discussed  with  all  of  the  marine  management  staff  and  appropriate  action,  where necessary, has been taken to amend their operations procedures and port marine safety code. The ninth recommendation, which related to a buoy location, was discussed but a decision has been

taken not to implement it as according to IALA1 the buoy is correct and should be left to starboard when approaching St Aubin's Bay from sea.

Given that the content of the Minister's answers to questions on this matter on 12th September 2011 and 11th November 2011 indicate that he did not have a full understanding of the situation within his Department, will he consider his position and resign?

No.

1 International Association of Marine Aids to Navigation and Lighthouse Authorities

5. DEPUTY T.M. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE TOTAL NUMBER OF 1(1)(k) RESIDENTS IN JERSEY IN 2011:

Question

Further to his response to my written question of 17th May 2011, will the Minister provide updated figures for the total number of 1(1)(k) residents in Jersey in 2011; further still detail the number of such residents paying tax within the following tax bands:

Less than £5,000

£5,000 - £10,000

£10,000 - £20,000

£20,000 - £30,000

£30,000 - £40,000

£40,000 - £50,000

£50,000 - £60,000

£60,000 - £70,000

£70,000 - £80,000

£90,000 - £100,000

Those paying £100,000 and above Answer

From latest figures available (Year of Assessment 2010) the number of high net worth individuals resident in the Island is 127 at 31st December 2010.

The specific figures in the bands requested by the Deputy are as follows:

1. Less than £5,000 23 individuals
2. Between £5,000 - £10,000 10 individuals
3. Between £10,000 - £20,000 14 individuals
4. Between £20,000 - £30,000 14 individuals
5. Between £30,000 - £40,000 7 individuals
6. Between £40,000 - £50,000 4 individuals

7. Between £50,000 - £60,000 4 individuals
8. Between £60,000 - £70,000 4 individuals
9. Between £70,000 - £80,000 None
10. Between £80,000 - £90,000 4 individuals
11. Between £90,000 - £100,000 4 individuals
12. Those paying £100,000 and above 39 individuals

6. DEPUTY  T.M.  PITMAN  OF  ST.  HELIER OF  H.M.  ATTORNEY  GENERAL REGARDING THE DECLARATION OF ELECTION EXPENSES BY ALL OF THE CANDIDATES FROM THE 2011 DEPURIES ELECTION:

Question

Will H.M. Attorney General advise whether or not all of the candidates from the 2011 Deputies election have complied with the Public Elections (Expenditure and Donations) (Jersey) Regulations 2011, which requires that they provide full details of their campaign expenses, irrespective of whether they were elected?

Answer

Candidates are required no later than 15 working days after the poll to deliver to the Judicial Greffier a written declaration of their election expenses. Two of the candidates who stood as prospective Deputies in the 2011 Deputies election and who were unsuccessful have failed to provide such a written declaration and this matter is receiving appropriate attention.

7. DEPUTY T.M. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING  THE  PAYMENT  OF  THE  BDO  ALTO  INVOICE  RELATING  TO THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT OF THE OPERATION RECTANGLE REVIEW:

Question

Will the Minister clarify whether or not the invoice in the region of £14,000 (discounted from approximately £26,000) previously sent to the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel from the company BDO Alto relating to the financial management of the Operation Rectangle Review has now been paid by Home Affairs; what date this was finally settled and, if not settled, will he advise whether he will be requesting the amount to be paid by a scrutiny panel?

Answer

The Home Affairs Department, having taken advice, will not be paying the invoice for costs submitted by BDO Alto in the sum of £14,143.50, and has advised the company accordingly. Whether BDO Alto seeks payment from the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel is a matter for the company, although the company has been advised that the Panel is likely to take a similar view.

8. DEPUTY  T.M. PITMAN  OF  ST.  HELIER OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR HOME AFFAIRS  REGARDING  THE  TOTAL  COST  OF  EXTERNAL  INQUIRIES  AND

REVIEWS OF ALLEGED POLICE DISCIPLINARY ISSUES SINCE NOVEMBER 2008:

Question

Further to his answer to my written question 6643 of January 17th 2012 (relating to how much money had been spent on external inquiries and reviews of alleged police disciplinary issues since November 2008), would the Minister confirm whether the figures stipulated (amounting to £894,394) indicate the total, complete cost to the Island's taxpayers of aspects relating to these inquires and, if not, will the Minister accordingly provide full details of any additional sums?

Answer

The answer to written question 6643 related to the cost of external inquiries and reviews as requested. It did not include the salary costs, including acting-up costs, in relation to suspended officers.

Of the four enquiries detailed in the first section of my response only one incurred internal costs including acting-up' cover and legal costs. The total cost to the States of Jersey Police of the 2008 enquiry by Thames Valley Police was £344,448, as indicated in my answer to Senator Breckon on 9 March 2010.

With regard to the Wiltshire Constabulary investigations, I would refer the Deputy to the answer I gave to his written question on 19 July 2010 which stated that the internal costs of `acting-up' cover for the absence of the Chief Officer of Police were £234,854, thus bringing the total costs in relation thereto to £1,103,094.

This brings the total costs relating to all relevant matters to £1,467,626.

In addition to this there will have been some costs relating to local officers but these would have come out of the normal staff budget.

9. DEPUTY T.M. PITMAN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHAIRMAN OF PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING THE COMPOSITION OFTHE ELECTORAL COMMISSION:

Question

Would the Chairman advise whether he personally supports moves to change the fully independent status of the Electoral Commission, as agreed by a large States majority decision in March 2011, and, if not, who will be acting as Rapporteur when the matter is brought to the Assembly for debate?

Would the Chairman advise whether the proposal was only considered by the Privileges and Procedures Committee following the Chief Minister's decision to support Senator Bailhache 's desire to chair the Commission?

Answer

My views on the composition of the Electoral Commission were indicated in the answer to a question at the last States meeting. I believe that the current States Assembly should have the opportunity to debate whether or not States members should be appointed to the Commission. It makes little difference, therefore, what position is taken by the Privileges and Procedures Committee. Either the States would be debating a proposition for an independent Electoral Commission with an amendment to allow States Members to serve on it, or  vice versa. The members of PPC were divided on which route to take and have by a majority lodged Electoral Commission: composition and terms of reference' (P.5/2012), to which an Amendment has been put to allow the debate to take place as anticipated.

Under the circumstances I foresee no difficulty in proposing P.5/2012, and expect that the majority of the time spent debating the issue will be devoted to the amendment.

The suggestion that PPC should draft a proposition that would, if adopted, enable States members to serve on the Electoral Commission, was initially considered by PPC as presently constituted at its first meeting on 14th December 2011. It is my understanding that the Chief Minister announced his intention to support Senator Sir P.M. Bailhache as chairman of the Electoral Commission on 16th November 2011, before I had been appointed as Chairman of PPC, and before the Committee as presently constituted had been established. It therefore follows that the proposal could only be considered by PPC after the Chief Minister made his decision to support Senator Bailhache .

10. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE CURRENT LARGE PROFILE OF THE RECLAMATION SITE AT LA COLLETTE:

Question

Would the Minister, with regard to the current large profile of the reclamation site at La Collette, advise:

1. the present height above mean high water ofthe earthworks near the Energyfrom Waste Plant;
2. the current height above mean high water of the mound at the south west corner;
3. whether these are due to be increased/decreased and, if so, when,
4. details of the planning permission, if any, granted for these works;
5. details of what consultation, if any, has taken place in relation to possible pollution from this infill and the resulting loss ofthe view of most of St Aubin's Bay and the Noirmont headland from the east of the Island?

Answer

1. The height of the earthworks (known as the North Mound) above mean high water, near the Energy from Waste Plant, is 19.5m
2. The current height above mean high water of the mound at the south west corner is 18.5m.
3. The North Mound is a landscaping feature which was constructed as partoftheEnergyfrom Waste Plant as partofthe overall Planning Permission for the project. It is now complete andto its finished height. Thereareno plans to change its height. The mound at the south west corner is a temporary stockpile of material for aggregate recycling. Its height will diminish as the material is processed over the next two years.

5. Planning Permission for the North Mound was granted under Planning Application No's. PP/2007/0050 and RM/2010/2086.

Planning Permit 17742 (18 October 1991) granted planning permission for the formation of a breakwater that created the La Collette II reclamation project. Planning Permit 17742/B (12

September 1995) gave permission for infilling of the area created by the breakwater and allowed for superfilling over and above the height of the breakwater where the site was to be used for the disposal of ash from the incinerator at Bellozanne. This was located on the north-eastern area of the site and allowed for superfilling up to 8m above the level of the top of the breakwater.

Superfilling on site at all locations, including the mound in the southwest corner, is permitted

by La Collette Development Framework (P96/2000), which was approved by the States in July 2000.

5. The waste management activities carried out at La Collette by TTS are regulated by the Department of the Environmentunder the Waste Management (Jersey) Law 2005 and Water Pollution (Jersey) Law 2000. TTS manage activities to prevent pollution ofthe environment and have a deemed Licence in place for all activities on the site. The waste management licence for the site requires a management plan, which includes the monitoring of environment, to be followed. TTS have consulted with the Department of the Environment throughout the formulation of the monitoring plan and this process is ongoing. Public consultation as required under the Waste Management (Jersey) Law 2005 is scheduled to take place in 2012 and a waste management licence can then be issued.

The combined effects of all TTS operations at La Collette has been independently reviewed by Rob McInnes, of Bioscan (UK) Ltd, a leading expert in Environmental Impact Assessments and Ramsar interface issues. He concludes that TTS has established appropriate operational, management and mitigation procedures to reduce risk to the marine environment to internationally agreed acceptable levels.

11. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING RECENT SPEED LIMIT CHANGES AND THE CURRENT SPEED LIMIT POLICY:

Question

Given recent speed limit changes where many urban areas remain at 40mph whilst limits have been reduced on some rural main roads with no accident records and, in one case, a road bordered by a single house, would the Minister inform members how he ensures consistency and provide details of his current speed limit policy?

Answer

The current speed limit policy was approved by the States in 2005. In summary it is: - 40mph all-island speed limit (30 mph all-island for vehicles over 3.5t laden weight) 30 mph on urban/built-up areas

20mph on housing estates and discrete residential areas

20mph part-time in areas outside of schools

15 mph on green lanes

The previous Minister for TTS established a speed limits review group and presented the group's review and proposals to the States in April last year, but the States agreed to a request from the Environment Scrutiny Panel to defer the debate, as the panel did not consider the review group's work to be adequate. The previous Minister subsequently informed the Panel that the matter would be referred to the Road Safety Strategy Group. That group has been established and will identify proposals to reduce the number of road injuries on our roads and will advise on the role speed limits have to play.

The Minister for TTS receives numerous requests for speed limits from the Parochial Authorities and I concur with my previous Minister that it is not satisfactory to ignore those requests whilst waiting for further review of speed limit policy. Consequently the previous Minister approved requests for six locations to be added to those areas subject to a 30 mph limit and I have recently approved the required Traffic Order. These are generally in urban areas where parochial authorities have identified a justification for lower limits in order to improve road safety and protect the local community.

Whilst a consistent approach is desirable, inevitably in practice there has to be some degree of flexibility in determining the exact location of speed limits.

12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE POSSIBLE 9NTRODUCTION OF BUSINESS PROPERTY OCCUPATION AND PAYROLL TAXES:

Question

What consideration, if any, has the Minister given to the introduction of a Business Property Occupation Tax and a Payroll tax to address the absence of tax revenue from zero-rated companies?

What consideration, if any, has the Minister given to the findings of the European Union's Court of Justice dated 15th November 2011, which ruled out a Business Property Occupation Tax and a Payroll tax proposed by Gibraltar on the grounds that they were materially selective and inherently favour offshore companies with little or no physical presence?

Will the Minister outline what other options, if any, he has for generating revenue from zero-rated companies?

Answer

Responses have been provided in the order asked.

1. Companies that are subjectto income tax at the 0% rate contribute significantly toJersey's revenues in a number of ways, including through ISE fees, company registration fees, social security contributions in respect of their employees, and most importantly, by employing the majority of Jersey residents who are in employment, who then pay taxes on their income.

Every possible measure, including property taxes and payroll taxes, is being examined in order to determine its suitability and its compliance with the EU Code of Conduct on Business Taxation.

2. The findings ofthe European Courtof Justice are being closely examined. It is considered that the judgement is helpful, insofar as it provides more detail on one ofthe measures by which Jersey's tax regime is judged. It demonstrates the importance of ensuring that the 0% company income tax rate is the standard rateoftax, applying not just to the majority of Jersey companies, but also to the majorityof companies doing business in the Island.
3. Other options which have been mentioned previously in the States Assembly include the potential extension of the 10% or 20% tax bands to include some other types of company, and the introduction of some formof charge. Further details will be made available in the next few months.

13. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING ADDITIONAL POWERS TO CONTROL POPULATION UNDER THE CONTROL OF HOUSING AND WORK (JERSEY) LAW 201-:

Question

What additional powers, if any, will the Chief Minister have to control population under the Control of Housing and Work (Jersey) Law 201- and how does he propose to use them?

Answer

The Control of Housing and Work (Jersey) Law 201- has been drafted to ensure that the Minister has robust, extensive and readily enforceable legal powers to control the ability of newcomers to work and be housed in Jersey.

In particular, the following have been seen as significant  improvements around our ability to manage the ability of newcomers to find work:

• All persons starting work must have a registration card clearly showing their residential status (Article 24) making it clear to employers and the Population Office what residential status every worker holds.
• The number of Registered and Licence persons that a business may employ will be capped, including powers to licence these employees on an individual named basis, and as to where they may live and for how long they may work for the undertaking (Article 27)
• All undertakings must provide statements of their employees (Article 32) at required periods which can be matched against registration records and the licence of the undertaking to ensure compliance.
• A licence may be varied, ceased, or revoked by the Minister as required (Articles 29, 30 and

37) and powers as to obtaining information and entering premises are clarified (Articles 33, 34, 35).

As to housing, the following are seen as particularly beneficial:

• The Law will require all persons to confirm where they live, including Registered persons (Article 9) and will allow data to be obtained from any Department (Article 10) to keep these records up to date to support compliance with housing conditions.

• The new Law will require all new properties to be Qualified unless the Minister says otherwise with reference to the interests of persons with Entitled status (Article 15)

Further information can be found in P37/2011, "Draft Control of Housing and Work (Jersey) Law 201-, including a detailed report on the benefits of the Law.

These powers will be used to support and achieve the policies of the Assembly.

14. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE NUMBER OF INCOME SUPPORT RECIPIENTS CHARGED FOR G.P. CONSULTATIONS SINCE 2008:

Question

Will the Minister inform members how many recipients of Income Support have been charged since 2008 for GP consultations instead of having clinical components and special payments?

Answer

General Practitioners (GPs) are responsible for the charges levied for consultations.

The Income Support system acknowledges the cost of GP visits in three separate ways:

1. The living component provided for each adult and each child in an Income Support household incorporates an allowance to pay for upto four GPsurgery visits perpersonper year.

As at 31 December 2011, 11,438 Income Support participants were eligible for a living component including an allowance towards their GP costs.

2. If anyone in the IncomeSupport household has a medical condition that requires more than four GP visits per year, an additional clinical cost component can be paid at one of two rates:

Five to eight visits per year - £156.52 per annum Nine to twelve visits per year - £313.04 per annum

As at 31 December 2011, 2,224 Income Support participants were eligible for a Clinical Cost component towards their additional GP costs.

3. Special Payments are also available to help those who need additional visits on a case-by- case basis.

2. Oral Questions

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding a report on the taxi and cab industry:

When will a report on the taxi and cab industry be published and what consultative process, if any, will occur?

Deputy K.C. Lewis (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):

The States-approved Sustainable Transport Policy provides a timetable for T.T.S. (Transport and Technical Services) to gather evidence and develop proposals for taxi regulations by 2012 and implement these by 2015. In order to meet this timetable, T.T.S. have undertaken detailed research into the operation of the taxi industry and the quality of customer service it provides. A report into taxi regulation in Jersey is in the process of being finalised and will be issued shortly for consultation with the industry and other relevant interested groups.

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Will the Minister tell us what aspects of the J.C.R.A. (Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority) report on the industry have been accepted by his department and what aspects have not been accepted?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I do not have the detailed list with me but I think many, if not all, have been accepted.

2. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade :

Would the Minister advise the Assembly whether during the consultation period on the new policy, in view of the very old nature of the regulatory law and the policy, is he currently enforcing those very much out of date rules?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

All rules are enforced until they are superseded by new ones.

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Could the Minister inform us whether his department will be recommending that all holders of taxi/cab licences must remain resident on the Island and must be active participants in the exercise of their licences?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

That will form part of the consultation which will be going out shortly and I invite the Deputy to reply then.

2. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the report of the Independent Police Complaints Commission into the complaint of Mr. Lenny Harper:

Is the Minister aware of the report of the Independent Police Complaints Commission into the complaint of Mr. Lenny Harper and, if so, would he advise whether it states that the Metropolitan Police Interim Report, which was a factor in the suspension of the former Chief Officer and allegedly criticised the former Senior Investigating Officer, contained no such criticism of these officers and, if so, would he apologise or resign?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs):

This question relates to the circumstances of the original suspension of the former Police Chief by the former Minister for Home Affairs. I think because there are so many new Members, I am going to have to refer to people by their actual names so that is of Mr. Power by former Deputy Andrew Lewis . That suspension was the subject of a detailed report consisting of 51 pages, which was

commissioned by the Chief Minister on behalf of the States of Jersey, which is called the Napier Report. I am aware that a report into the complaint of Mr. Harper exists but I have not seen it. The Metropolitan Police report was requested by Mr. Warcup with the agreement of Mr. Power in order to advise the States of Jersey Police both on high level issues and in relation to individual investigations forming part of the Historical Child Abuse Inquiry. Mr. Warcup then subsequently requested an interim report for reasons which I have stated before. He subsequently referred to the interim report in a letter written to Mr. Ogley and that letter was considered by Mr. Lewis as part of the matters he considered in the suspension hearing. Mr. Napier considered both the interim report and the letter of Mr. Warcup. He certainly considered the details of the interim report because he makes detailed reference to issues therein which he could only have found by so doing. He does not at any point in his report suggest that the section of that report quoted in the letter of Mr. Warcup did not, in fact, exist in the report. I also checked this. There was a whole series of questions to me in 2010 and eventually I checked the exact nature of the documents and also I checked that the words contained in the letter did, in fact, exist in the report. The Metropolitan Police report was not a disciplinary report and I would not expect it to contain direct criticism of individual officers. Frankly, I am completely puzzled as to what Deputy Trevor Pitman thinks that I have said or done in relation to this which warrants an apology or resignation.

1. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

How many supplementaries can I have? A quote from the findings of the Independent Police Commission: "In reality, having reviewed the report written by D.S.U. (Detective Superintendent) Sweeting" - sorry, I have got to name him and his team - "it is clear that no such criticisms are levelled at Mr. Harper." Paragraph 5.4. "The report was neither critical nor damning." Indeed, does the Minister - and I wish he would stop taking the flak for his predecessor - not agree that we should not have a situation where someone is suspended on the basis of a letter written claiming that there is something in a report which no one is allowed to see? Indeed, the Minister who suspended the individual was not allowed to see it and when you read the report, it warrants no such action at all.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I am not sure that the words that Deputy Pitman just read out are inconsistent with what I said. I would not expect any such report to contain detailed or any criticism of individual people. It was an overall assessment of the situation. There undoubtedly was a problem in relation to the original suspension in that the reference in the letter of Mr. Warcup to the interim report was considered by Mr. Lewis even though he did not see the report itself. I found myself subsequently some months later in exactly the same position and decided not to consider the part of the letter which contained that for that very reason.

2. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

I have got a number of questions on this so I will just start with this one. The former Minister for Home Affairs, Deputy Lewis , told this Assembly that what he had been told was contained in the interim report and was highly damaging. I will not quote him but he gave the House the view that he had no choice other than to suspend the Chief Officer because he had to investigate the allegations of gross misconduct in terms of management supervision and everything else. So in other words, basically, he was told in the letter that he was given by the Chief Executive at the time that this guy was basically out of control: "Something has got to be done and you have got to suspend him." Now, does he think that that was sufficient based on just a letter from the Deputy Chief of Police at the time to the Chief Executive who had already been planning from 24th September to look at disciplinary matters with the Chief of Police? Does he think that was justification to suspend him?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I have been asked to express an opinion on somebody else's matters. I do not think that is within the normal rules of answering questions. It is very difficult for me to express an opinion because I do not know precisely all the materials that were before Mr. Lewis in relation to that but I do accept there was a difficulty in relation to the usage of the Metropolitan Report in circumstances in which the Minister did not see it. I also accept that a letter was written by Mr. Ogley in relation to this matter to Mr. Lewis in which Mr. Ogley put his own gloss, as it were, on some of the information which was produced and that may also, of course, have influenced Mr. Lewis but I cannot say.

3. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Could I just follow up? The main question I am trying to ask is if the House was told at the time that the report contained such damning evidence that gave the impression of gross misconduct in terms of management supervision,  et cetera, do you not think that misled the House into a suspension when there was no such evidence in the interim report?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

It is very difficult. I am being asked to express an opinion which a predecessor has done at a particular time. I accept that what he did and the manner in which he did it is open to criticism. I personally have always held the view that, irrespective of content, the procedure that was followed in relation to that matter was incorrect but I simply do not think it is fair that I am being asked to express a view, as it were, on the performance of a predecessor in relation to matters without knowing exactly what he considered. I would accept that on the basis of what he said to the Assembly, there were certain weaknesses undoubtedly.

[10:00]

4. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

I understand that the Minister was not around at the time and that is perhaps where the difficulty arises. First of all, will he clarify that were he around at the time that he would have at least insisted on seeing what the report said for himself before making a very serious decision to suspend a Chief Police Officer without having seen the report. So first of all, was that a mistake, quite categorically, yes or no; and secondly, because the Minister has subsequently said that he supports the suspension even though he did not support the way in which it was done suggests that he thinks it is okay to say that the means justifies the end and that it is all right to suspend somebody when the process is not correct, to do that unlawfully and then find the evidence for that later. Is that the correct way to do business?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

That question was so long that I think I have now forgotten the first half of it.

The Bailiff :

The first part was hypothetical. It was

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I think I agreed with it.

Deputy M. Tadier :

To clarify, I would be happy if the Minister would just answer the second part of the question. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

But I now cannot remember that. [Laughter] In relation to the first half, I think the answer I have already given indicates that I do not think that use should have been made of the material relating to this report without the Minister having looked at it and that is obvious that I think that because I found myself exactly in the same position and then chose to delete, as it were, the reference in the letter of Mr. Warcup to that for exactly that reason. Now, I have, I am afraid, forgotten the second half. There is meant to be only one question, is there not, Sir?

5. Deputy M. Tadier :

If I have a supplementary, that might help the Minister. I think I obviously took a leaf out of the Minister's first response which was also very lengthy and I could not quite remember the very beginning of that answer. The point that is being made here is that if the process was not being followed and the suspension was made and it was not based on due process, then we have a choice of a suspension either being made for valid reasons or for political reasons. So one is a process, one is to do with the fact that the job was not being done or the other alternative - which seems to be the case - that this was a political decision being made to get rid of an officer. So my question to the Minister is can he confirm that the criticisms of local journalists on the internet over here that this was a political suspension, politically motivated and not one for which the Chief Police Officer should have been suspended is correct? Will the Minister confirm that this was a political suspension and that there was no physical evidence at that time, no reason to suspend the Chief of Police?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

No, I do not agree with that. I have agreed that the procedure followed was not correct. That is, in fact, of course, what Mr. Napier found but Mr. Napier also found that there was no political motivation, that this was properly followed through. I do not think that people can selectively choose parts from the Napier Report. Members of this Assembly must also remember that I reviewed the matter, that I reconsidered it, that I found that, in fact, the suspension was justified but that decision was attacked by Mr. Power by a judicial review before the Royal Court and my decision was not overturned.

6. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Where to begin. If the Minister has read the so-called interim report, is he aware that it was not written by a working police officer, it was written by a civilian, and it is very selective in what it quotes? Does the Minister think that that is an appropriate way to go forward, effectively ending someone's career and ruining their life because that is what this political decision has done?

The Bailiff :

That was your question, Deputy . The rules are quite clear you ask one subject in a question. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I have noted that among the papers flying around on blog sites are allegations that this interim report was not produced by the Superintendent who was named before. I have to say that is the first time I have come across that particular allegation. I would be very grateful if somebody would send me a copy of the I.C.C. (Independent Complaints Commission) Report so that I can have a look at that. I can then go back and have a look at the electronic form of the document which I have seen before which I have described before to this Assembly and see whether that is correct or not.

3. Deputy J.H. Young of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding Income Tax allowance for non-corporate owners of residential properties whosepropertieswerenot in a suitable condition for letting:

Before putting my question, I would just like to say I recognise my question does require me to make a declaration of interest under Standing Order 106(2) because of a property that a close member of my family inherited in the last few years. So having done that, may I make the question? In view of the 3,103 vacant private dwellings reported in the 2011 census, will the Minister inform the Assembly whether non-corporate owners of residential properties whose properties are not in a suitable condition for letting currently receive income tax allowance against rental income for any capital expenditure incurred in bringing their properties into lettable condition? If not, will the Minister review this?

Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources):

Before I answer I too, I believe, have to make a declaration. I have a family member who has a property that comes under this category. Having said that, firstly I would say that it is not yet clear how many of these vacant private dwellings are properties that are not in a suitable condition for letting. For example, some may be new-builds that are not yet occupied or others may be where the owners are away on a long-term holiday. I believe that further analysis of the underlying data will be carried out by the independent Statistics Unit. The Income Tax Law allows a deduction to be made from rents charged to tax for spending on maintenance and repairs when property has fallen into a state of disrepair while being let. There is no provision to allow a deduction of this expenditure if the money was spent before the property was let. The Minister has committed to conduct a review of property taxation, which will look at how property income is currently taxed. This will aim to discourage unfair practice relating to property ownership and to determine whether the tax system can be used to encourage behaviour which is beneficial to the Island.

1. Deputy J.H. Young:

I thank the Minister. I would like, please, for him to clarify his answer. In view of the need for economic incentives for the building industry, would his review of the income tax law include widening the scope of the income tax relief, which I believe comes in Article 52, and to allow all property expenditure for refurbishment against tax and will that include removing the restriction on any relief on energy saving measures, all of which is, I think, in line to modernise the income tax law in line with his reply?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Unfortunately for the good Deputy , I am reluctant to agree to that, the main reason being that tax policy should be made on sound evidence and the independent Statistics Unit has yet to carry out the full analysis of the 3,103 unoccupied properties and until we have a better understanding as to the nature of those properties, then it would be inappropriate to make amendments to our tax legislation.

2. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour :

Could the Assistant Minister advise why areas such as these were not part of the recently conducted Fiscal Strategy Review, which resulted in a G.S.T. (Goods and Services Tax) rise?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

The potential amount of tax involved I believe would be quite small and that is the main reason why these types of areas were not considered in the review that was carried out in 2009, I believe.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

As part of his review, has the Assistant Minister considered talking to the Parish authorities to agree a set of carrots or sticks to get these properties back on the market? What time scale is he thinking of reporting in? When will he report?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Again, I go back to the work that is going to be carried out by the independent Statistics Unit. When we have a better understanding of the makeup of these 3,103 properties, we will have a better steer on which direction to take and if that means liaising with the Comité des Connétable s to gather further information, we will do that.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Will the Assistant Minister answer the question? When is it his intention to report his findings back to this House?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

It depends on the outcome of the information provided by the Statistics Unit. Depending on their findings, the report back to this House may or may not be required. If their findings come up with figures that there are 3,000 properties that are newly-built that are vacant, then there is little point in coming back to this House. If there are a significant number of properties that have fallen into disrepair that could be brought back into the housing market, then, yes, that is a matter that can be brought back to this House.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

May I just make a general point about answering questions here? We have got a simple question here. When is it intended to come back? It could be this year, next year, the year after. It could be months; it could be within a year. Whatever the answer is, this Minister does not want to answer.

The Bailiff :

Deputy , please do not continue speaking when the Chair is speaking. The Deputy has given an answer which is that he does not know. Now you may not like that answer but it is an answer to the question.

5. Deputy M. Tadier :

Will the Assistant Minister confirm whether he thinks it is completely inappropriate to give taxpayers' money to multiple property owners to do up their places so that they can then let them out to other people who cannot afford to either buy or even affordably rent properties in the Island? Is this a good use of taxpayers' money as a principle?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I have quite some sympathy with Deputy Tadier there. I do not personally think - this is a personal view - that taxpayers' money should be used to subsidise landlords who have a substantial property portfolio.

6. Senator A. Breckon:

The Assistant Minister a number of times has mentioned the work being done by the Statistics Unit into the empty properties. Can he say which part of the Census Law allows them to look in more detail at information they have received?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

The simple answer is no, I do not know the answer to that. I do not know what part of the Census Law would allow them to look more deeply. From what I understand, they are working within their remit to provide a better breakdown of the figure that they have published.

Senator A. Breckon:

Is that a yes or a no? Can the Statistics Unit look at this within the Census Law or not? Deputy E.J. Noel:

I thought I was quite clear. I do not know if they can or not.

7. Deputy J.H. Young:

In view of the Assistant Minister's reply to Deputy Tadier 's question, could I ask him to clarify whether his review will include an economic assessment of the benefits of providing incentives to generate additional economic growth, thereby increasing tax revenues rather than seeing it as a loss of public money?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Yes, any changes to our tax system, albeit how large or small, have to look at all the factors concerned to make sure that there are no unforeseen results that could cause a detriment to our economy and Islanders.

4. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the report commissioned by an outside media consultant in relation to Operation Rectangle:

Can the Minister inform Members whether the report written on 8th October 2008 by an outside media consultant in relation to Operation Rectangle was commissioned by the former Chief Executive of the States and the former Chief Minister and not by the States of Jersey Police?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs):

In answering this, I think I want to refer to the name of the individual. The reason for that is because there is a question for the Chief Minister about that individual, he is named there, so I cannot see any problem in my doing that unless you rule otherwise.

The Bailiff :

If it is essential.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

But I think it is confusing otherwise when there is a question. The Bailiff :

Very well.

[10:15]

Deputy M. Tadier :

Can I just add that it says "former Chief Minister" but, of course, that is 2 Chief Ministers ago now so it is probably helpful if we do refer to names.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I would assume that the question relates to Mr. Tapp - that ties-in with the question of Deputy Higgins - who was a specialist media consultant who was appointed by Mr. Warcup in order to advise the States of Jersey Police on media-related issues. Following a disagreement with Mr. Power as to the correct way forward, he resigned. He was then asked by the Chief Executive, Mr. Ogley, with the consent of the Chief Minister at the time - acknowledging consent to the Chief Minister at the time, Mr. Walker - to produce a report, which he did. That report was not available until after the original suspension. The involvement of Mr. Ogley in this and Mr. Walker and Mr. Tapp's involvement is all covered at some length in the Napier Report and Mr. Napier does not express any concerns in relation to the part which Mr. Tapp played or, indeed, Mr. Ogley in this way and I am frankly puzzled as to why there is now excitement about Mr. Tapp's role when this has been in the public domain for quite a long time.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

Firstly, if I can thank the Minister because a similar question was asked on 20th April 2010 and at that time, there was an ongoing inquiry so the Minister had to be slightly more cagey in the answer that he was able to give on that occasion. I suspect that the reason that this has been given some import by certain journalists and certain individuals in our Island is because it exactly confirms the suspicion that this was a political act and it was not the Police Chief and that department which decided that there was need for the Police Chief to be suspended. Rather, it was a decision of the Chief Executive Officer who, as we know, has now been if I can say "paid off" - I do not know if that is the appropriate expression. So does the Minister acknowledge that with so many people having resigned, the Chief Executive Officer and Mr. Warcup, who ostensibly resigned because he was getting harassment, but it could be for other reasons, that this is something which is of political interest? Will the Minister seek to give a full statement to the media outlining the timeline, the chronology, and the reasons for the suspension?

Senator B.I. Marquand:

There are so many questions again in that one.

The Bailiff :

There are only 2. Was it a political act and will you make a statement? Senator B.I. Marquand:

No, it was not a political act. It was quite apparent by the time that Mr. Tapp was asked to produce his report that there were serious concerns in relation to the way in which the media handling had taken place. That was apparent fairly early on, in fact, but by the time we are getting into October 2008, the storm clouds were definitely gathering in relation to that. It was by then known that the so-called skull fragment was not a skull fragment at all but was some other type of material and it seems to me that it was part of the duty of the Chief Executive at the time to try and start to gather evidence which would become relevant to subsequent decisions. There is absolutely nothing political about that.

The Bailiff :

Will you make a statement?

Senator B.I. Marquand:

I will talk to the press but I am not going to go into enormous length or enormous technical details.

2. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Does the Minister not find it rather strange though that Mr. Tapp was brought in by the Deputy Chief Officer of Police to write a report, it was then felt that his services were not required by them. He is then invited by the Chief Executive who had already from 24th September been making inquiries with the Solicitor General and others about bringing disciplinary charges against the Chief of Police. Does it not look like the media thing was part of a political process of getting rid of him?

Senator B.I. Marquand:

No, the fact that already inquiries were being made in terms of possible disciplinary matters is fully consistent with Mr. Ogley taking the view that he should be gathering evidence together. Clearly, Mr. Tapp very strongly disagreed with the way in which matters were carried out. Incidentally, Mr. Tapp's evidence of what he had to say in relation to matters was included as part of the Wiltshire Report. They clearly treated him as being an expert with the right knowledge and ability.

3. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Going back to Mr. Ogley's role in this, Mr. Ogley commissioned this report with the former Chief Minister, Mr. Frank Walker , and the report was used as part of the justification for his dismissal. Mr. Ogley, according to Napier, said that one of the reasons for the suspension of the Chief Officer of Police was the fact that he would not agree to the media strategy. Will the Minister for Home Affairs please go through all this and produce chapter and verse for the media and for Members here because there are so many elements of it now coming to the front showing that it was a political act. Will he revisit it and put out all the information?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

It is not a political act. I have heard absolutely no evidence from that and I stand by the report of Mr. Tapp in relation to that particular area. Members are very quickly forgetting that the concerns of Mr. Warcup were fully justified by the Wiltshire Reports when they came out. That is the substantive report in relation to what happened where there were failures and so on.

4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Given this never-ending saga and given the miasma of allegations and counter allegations, could the Minister comment on whether the constitutional manner in which we have dealt with this was sufficiently robust and independent or would he reform it so that we never get into the situation again where so many people are involved and the independence and integrity of an independent Police Chief, as should be, is heavily compromised?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

That is part of my work programme because once hopefully the States of Jersey pass the new Police Force Law, I have left the issue of disciplinary codes and such matters for the Police Chief to be dealt with by regulations so that the States will have a full say in relation to that. Clearly, we have got to get the procedures right for the future. I totally agree with Deputy Le Hérissier on that.

5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Would he not agree that the involvement of other civil servants in trying to manage a Police Chief was totally wrong in retrospect?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

No, I do not agree with that. Members of this Assembly must understand that Mr. Ogley, as Chief Executive, had a particular role of oversight. Indeed, within the Civil Service system if I can refer to the wider system, I appreciate the Police Chief is not a civil servant and has a particular status, he would have been the person who would have had oversight at the officer level of the Police Chief in relation to matters in relation to which it was proper to have such oversight. In my view, someone will always have to have that. There has to be a proper balance and I am seeking to achieve that balance in the new law between operational matters and other matters and such safeguards but, nevertheless, there has to be some level of oversight at Civil Service level.

6. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

I am almost tempted to ask if the Minister could tell the House, particularly new Members, what other substance apart from in mammals you find 1.6 collagen; I do not think you find it in coconuts. But my question is the Minister keeps referring again to the Wiltshire Report as the ultimate findings. This is the prosecution case that was never able to be put to Mr. Power because the Minister, I will have to use the word "chickened out" - ran away - and would not give him a fair hearing in court. Would the Minister not agree with that?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I very much resent the suggestion that I chickened out or would not give a fair hearing. The fact is that the reports took so long in arriving and a procedure that then followed that, if I got the documentation, took so long and then Mr. Power then brought forward his resignation date by 6 months which rendered it impossible to deal with the matter. The fact is that Wiltshire did not set out a prosecution case. They produced a balanced report. It is available to Members, both in a redacted form and in full form. They consider what he is saying and they come to judgments on that. It remains, in my view, the definitive report on this matter.

7. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Talking about balance and fairness, would the Minister then finally make Mr. Power's 62,000 words available to all so we can have some real light on the matter?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I have been working on that for quite some time but I have hit significant difficulties. I had to take specialist advice from counsel on issues relating to libel. That has thrown up some complicated issues. I am still working on it but it is complicated. It is not a matter of just taking out certain names. It is a question of whether or not I can properly put in the public domain certain matters without risking libel and I have to be fair, not just to Mr. Power but to others. The work is continuing and we will complete it as soon as we can.

8. Deputy M. Tadier :

I think the reason this is serious is because the Minister somehow and at some time needs to explain why when a media consultant is taken on by the States of Jersey Police, only to resign, books his flights home, and then he immediately gets a phone call from the Chief Executive and the Chief Minister saying: "We want you to do a report for us" because he would not have been able to do that report for the Chief Minister because he was already working on other reports subsequently, so it suggests that one way or the other the States of Jersey - the Chief Executive, Bill Ogley - who has now resigned or retired and the former Chief Minister, Frank Walker , wanted to get Mr. Tapp to do a report one way or the other. That is one of the questions that needs to be answered because