States Meeting Transcript - 10th May 2016

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 10th MAY 2016

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ......................................6

1. Welcome to Members: ....................................................................6
2. Liberation Day celebrations - appreciation..............................................6

QUESTIONS......................................................................................6

2. Written Questions........................................................................6

1. (9407) DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE ACCOMMODATION REQUIREMENT FOR INCOME SUPPORT:....................................................................6
2. (9408) DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING THE POSSIBLE INTRODUCTION OF GOODS AND SERVICES TAX FOR FEE-PAYING SCHOOLS: ......................................6
3. (9409) DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING THE POSSIBLE ESTABLISHMENT OF A NON-FEE PAYING COLLEGE WITH A SIXTH FORM:..........................................7
4. (9410) DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE REDEVELOPMENT OF 1-2 VICTORIA COURT, ST. SAVIOUR:..............................................................................8
5. (9411) DEPUTY M. TADIER OF. ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING BUSKERS' LICENCES:................................................................8
6. (9412) DEPUTY R.J. RONDEL OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE USE OF LOCUMS AT THE GENERAL HOSPITAL: ................................................................9
7. (9413) DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING REMUNERATION PAID TO THE CHAIRMAN AND BOARD MEMBERS OF THE JERSEY BANK DEPOSITOR COMPENSATION SCHEME: ..11
8. (9415) DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING ALLEGATIONS MADE AGAINST THE STATES OF JERSEY POLICE BY MR. ROY BOSCHAT:..........................................12
9. (9416) DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING NET MIGRATION:....................................................12
10. (9417) DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING PAY RISES TO STAFF AT MANAGERIAL LEVEL:................................................................................12

11. (9418) DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH CIVIL SERVANTS' FLIGHTS:..13
12. (9419) DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE IDENTIFICATION OF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO HAVE SUBMITTED FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS:.................14
13. (9420) DEPUTY S. Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING TAX INCOME COLLECTED FROM LANDLORDS RESIDING OUTSIDE JERSEY:.......................................14
14. (9421) DEPUTY S. Y. MEZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE INTRODUCTION OF HEALTH AND WASTE DISPOSAL TAXES:....................................................15
15. (9422) DEPUTY M. R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING CONTRACTS RELATING TO THE ENERGY FROM WASTE PLANT: ..............................................................16

3. Oral questions ...........................................................................16

1. (9427) Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Minister for Housing regarding the potential existence of arrangements to circumvent the Tenants' Deposit Scheme:....16

Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Housing):....................................17

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................17
2. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier:.......................................................17
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................17
4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:.....................................................18
5. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary:........................................................18
6. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................18
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................18

2. (9428) Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the disappearance of Adrian Lynch:........................................................19

Deputy K.L. Moore of St. Peter (The Minister for Home Affairs):............................19

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................19
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................20

3. (9424) The Connétable of St. Helier of the Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding changes to the composition of the States Assembly:............20

Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):...20

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................20
2. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................21
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................21

4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................21
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................22
6. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................22
7. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................22
8. Senator P.M. Bailhache : ................................................................22
9. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................22

4. (9425) Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the proportion of Gross Domestic Product spent on health in Jersey:.................23

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................23

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................23

2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................24

5. (9430) Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding potential tax revenues not collected from individuals who reside outside Jersey who earn a taxable income from inside Jersey:.................................24

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................24

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................24
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25

6. (9423) Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour of the Minister for Environment regarding the presence of Oxadixyl in Jersey's water supply:....................................25

Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin (The Minister for Environment): ............................25

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................25
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................26
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................26
4. Deputy P.D. McLinton of St. Saviour:..................................................27
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27
6. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................27

7. (9432) Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Savour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the rate of suicide amongst young men:............................28

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................28

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................28
2. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................29

8. (9429) Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the potential impact on the Jersey economy of a U.K. exit from the European Union: ...........................................................................................29

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................29

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................30
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................30
3. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................30
4. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................30

5. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................31
6. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................31

9. (9425) Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Housing regarding measures to increase the supply of housing:..........................................................31

The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Housing):...........................................31

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................32
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................32
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................32
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................32
5. Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier:..........................................................33
6. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................33
7. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................33
8. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................34
9. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................34
10. Deputy S.M. Brée of St. Clement:...................................................34
11. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................35

10. (9431) Deputy S.Y. Mézec of the Minister for Social Security regarding Social Security contributions for the self-employed:..........................................35

Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security):..........................35

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................35
2. Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary:................................................36
3. Deputy R. Labey :....................................................................36
4. Deputy R. Labey :....................................................................36
5. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................36
6. The Connétable of St. Mary : ........................................................36

4. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Housing....................37

1. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................37 The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Housing):...........................................37
2. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :........................................................37
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................37

4.3.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................38

4. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................38
5. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................38

4.5.1 Deputy M.R. Higgins:..................................................................39

6. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John : ....................................................39
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................39

4.7.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................40

8. Deputy P.D. McLinton: ................................................................40
9. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................40

4.9.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................40

5. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Infrastructure..............41

1. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................41 Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (The Minister for Infrastructure):..........................41
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................41
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41

5.3.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................42

4. Deputy S.M. Wickenden of St. Helier:..................................................42
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................42
6. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence : .............................................42
7. Deputy P.D. McLinton: ................................................................43
8. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................43
9. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................43
10. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................43
11. Deputy S.M. Brée:......................................................................44

5.11.1 Deputy S.M. Brée: ..................................................................44

12. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................44
13. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. John:........................................................45

5.13.1 The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................45

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................45

6. Draft Connétable s (Miscellaneous Provisions - Consequential Amendments) (No. 2) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.27/2016)...................................................45

6.1 The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman, Comité des Connétable s):..................45

7. Draft Rates (Amendment) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.28/2016)..............................46

7.1 The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman, Comité des Connétable s):..................46

8. Channel Islands Lottery: allocation of proceeds from 2015 (P.32/2016) ..............48

8.1 Deputy M.J. Norton of St. Brelade (Assistant Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture - rapporteur):..............................................48

1. Connétable M.P.S. Le Troquer of St. Martin:...........................................49
2. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................50
3. Deputy S.M. Brée:......................................................................50
4. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................50
5. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................50
6. Deputy M.J. Norton:....................................................................51

9. Law Society of Jersey Disciplinary Panel: re-appointment of lay member (P.35/2016) ...........................................................................................53

9.1 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):................................................53

10. Nursery funding: implementation of proposed changes (P.39/2016) ..................54 Deputy M. Tadier : ............................................................................54

11. Collective Responsibility Statements: propositions, amendments, comments or statements lodged or submitted by a Minister (P.40/2016).............................54

Deputy S.M. Wickenden:.....................................................................54

ADJOURNMENT................................................................................55 STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................55

12. The Chief Minister - statement regarding anti-corruption ............................55

12.1 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister).................................................55

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................56
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................56
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................56
4. Deputy M.J. Norton: ................................................................57
5. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ...........................................................57
6. Deputy R. Labey :....................................................................57
7. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................58
8. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................58
9. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................58

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ....................59

13. The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee).....59

[9:30]

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer. COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

1. Welcome to Members:

The Bailiff :

First of all, I congratulate Members on being present today. It goes to show how much attention you pay to the Chair when the States were adjourned yesterday until next week. But I am delighted to see you all present.

2. Liberation Day celebrations - appreciation The Bailiff :

Secondly, I would like to thank all those who were involved yesterday in the arrangements for the Liberation Day celebrations. Not just those who were employed in my department but also in the other departments across the States, and also many, many volunteers who turned out to help in lots of ways. [Approbation] I would like to pay tribute to all those who braved the rain to come to Liberation Square. It was a really good turnout despite the not terribly good conditions, although better than today's.

QUESTIONS

2. Written Questions

1. (9407) DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE ACCOMMODATION REQUIREMENT FOR INCOME SUPPORT:

Question

1. Will the Minister state whether, in all cases, the maximum accommodation component available for an Income Support claimant living in an Andium property is sufficient to cover the full rent?

Answer

Since April 2014, the accommodation component of Income Support for social housing tenants has been linked automatically to the actual rent of the property occupied, on condition that the property is appropriate to the needs of the household. Social housing tenants include tenants of Andium Homes, Jersey Homes Trust, Les Vaux Housing Trust, Christians together in Jersey Housing Trust and the FB Cottages Housing Trust.

The full rent is also covered if the tenant is under-occupying the property but is engaged in the transfer process to an appropriate unit.

2. (9408) DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING THE POSSIBLE INTRODUCTION OF GOODS AND SERVICES TAX FOR FEE-PAYING SCHOOLS:

Question

Has his Department investigated or discussed the possibility of introducing Goods and Services Tax (GST) for fee-paying schools within the last two years? If so, could he provide details of such work and state whether there are any current plans to introduce GST for some or all fee-paying schools?

What are the potential technical, as opposed to political, difficulties of introducing GST for fee-paying schools, particularly with regard to schools which may be defined as charities and are therefore currently exempt from GST?

Answer

The introduction of GST has not been considered by the Education Department because it is outside their remit. This is a tax issue and is therefore a matter for the Treasury.

For clarification, Schedule 5 (Article 48) of the Goods and Services Tax (Jersey) Law 2007 sets out exemptions and Group 7 refers specifically to education. This was approved by the States following a full Scrutiny review at the time.

It states:

1. For the purposes of this Law, the supply of a service, being the education of children at any of the following schools shall be exempt –

1. Victoria College;
2. Jersey College for Girls;
3. Helvetia House School;
4. St. Christopher's School;
5. an approved school.

(1A) For the purposes of this Law, the supply of a service, being the education of children below

compulsory school age in a nursery school, or nursery class, established and maintained by the Minister shall be exempt.

2. For the purposes of this Law, the supply of a service, being higher education at Highlands College or an approved college, shall be exempt.

Under the law, schools that are charities or trusts are also exempt.

As the question of GST for fee-paying schools has not arisen, no work has been carried out on the potential practical difficulties of its introduction.

3. (9409) DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING THE POSSIBLE ESTABLISHMENT OF A NON-FEE PAYING COLLEGE WITH A SIXTH FORM:

Question

Has his Department considered establishing a non-fee paying college with a sixth form, with or without vocational courses, either as a single school for 11 to 18 year-olds, or as two schools, one for 11 to 16 year- olds and the other for 16 to 18 year-olds, or one for 11 to 14 year-olds and one for 14 year-olds and over? If so, can details be provided? If, not, will he consider establishing such a college?

Answer

No specific options are being explored but there are ongoing discussions about the overall structure and performance of Jersey's education system, as is to be expected for an Education Department. A group comprising head teachers and senior officers is  meeting on a regular basis to discuss issues and it is envisaged that this group will report to the Minister in due course on all feasible options.

4. (9410)  DEPUTY  M. TADIER  OF  ST.  BRELADE OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE REDEVELOPMENT OF 1-2 VICTORIA COURT, ST. SAVIOUR:

Question

With regard to Planning application 2016/0457 made by Andium Homes for the demolition of two flats and the construction of three 3-bedroom dwellings at 1-2 Victoria Court, St. Saviour , could the Minister advise when discussions first took place regarding the possibility of redeveloping the site?

Can she also provide the minutes of any meetings held by Andium Homes and/or departments in the past 3 years during which this property was discussed as an agenda item, and if not, why not?

Answer

The Minister for Housing and Andium Homes have not met specifically about the proposed development of three 3-bedroom houses at Victoria Court. However, the Minister has received a presentation on the Andium Homes revised draft Strategic Business Plan, and the scheme at Victoria Court is identified along with other new build projects.

Other than the confidential minute of the Andium Homes Board meeting on 24th February 2016, where the Board approved the scheme drawings for Victoria Court, there are no minutes of meetings available where Victoria Court was discussed as an agenda item. However, Andium Homes is able to provide a timetable of events, which show when decisions were made in respect of the site:

5. (9411)  DEPUTY  M. TADIER  OF.  ST.  BRELADE OF THE  MINISTER  FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING BUSKERS' LICENCES:

Question

Further to the undertaking he made on 26th April 2016 to look into this matter, will the Minister provide a breakdown of the number of buskers' licences issued per year for the last 10 years, as well as the cost of the permit in each year?

Answer

Busking permits are issued by the Bailiff in accordance with his long standing common law powers to regulate public entertainment. The Bailiff 's powers are supplemented by the triennial Unlawful Public Entertainment (Jersey) Regulations 2013, which came into force on 21st July 2013 and which remain in force for 3 years from that date.

The Bailiff 's Chambers holds the information sought by the Deputy but I have liaised with the Bailiff 's Chambers to obtain the below. However, any future enquires should be addressed to the Bailiff 's Chambers.

Cost of Permit Total 2005 £20 £400 Mar 2006 – Mar 2007 £20 £480

1 Apr 2007 – 31 Mar 2008 £20 £360

1 Apr 2008 – 31 Mar 2009  £20 £200

1 Apr 2009 – 31 Dec 2009  £20/£15 concession £680 2010 £20 - 3 concessions at £15  £665 2011 £30 £1,170 2012  £30 £1,320 2013 £30 £810 2014  £30 (includes 1 concession of £28.76) £988.76 2015 £30 £870

2005 – 20 buskers permits issued 2006 – 20 buskers permits issued 2007 – 38 buskers permits issued 2008 – 30 buskers permits issued 2009 – 50 buskers permits issued 2010 – 54 buskers permits issued 2011 – 57 buskers permits issued 2012 – 61 buskers permits issued 2013 – 44 buskers permits issued 2014 – 43 buskers permits issued 2015 – 33 buskers permits issued

6. (9412) DEPUTYR.J.RONDELOFST.HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND  SOCIAL  SERVICES  REGARDING  THE  USE OF LOCUMS  AT  THE GENERAL HOSPITAL:

Question

Would the Minister produce a table showing for the years 2014, 2015 and 2016 to date –

1. Departments within the General Hospital that use or have used locums, and
2. The number of locums that have been brought to the Island each year per department and the cost to each department within the General Hospital of those locums

Answer

Locum doctors are used by the hospital for a variety of reasons including:

• cover for doctors on leave, especially when the doctor on leave is a single-handed specialist
• cover when doctors are on extended sick leave or leave of absence
• cover for an established but vacant post and the workload cannot be managed in any other way.

Locums are used to cover all grades of doctors from foundation trainees to consultants.

The table below shows the number of locum doctor episodes (although the same doctor is often used for multiple visits) during 2014, 2015 and 2016 to date. This shows all doctors and then splits down to just consultant cover. This is shown by specialty.

Unfortunately the cost is not recorded in the ledger by specialty but by different business codes and does not directly correlate – therefore, a total spend figure is shown. Additionally, if a locum is secured for a longer period of time – for example, 6 months – they will be given a temporary contract and paid via payroll rather than invoice and it is not possible to disaggregate these in the timescale available.

*Cardiology contract with Oxford provides consultant cover for Jersey consultant leave but is not captured in this data set

** Staff grade doctor left and this was upgraded to consultant level cover pending restructure and substantive appointment (interviews in June 2016)

*** Additional histopathologist appointed and starts August 2016

**** Additional radiologist appointed and starts September 2016

7. (9413)  DEPUTY  M.R. HIGGINS  OF  ST.  HELIER OF  THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING  REMUNERATION  PAID  TO THE  CHAIRMAN  AND  BOARD MEMBERS OF THE JERSEY BANK DEPOSITOR COMPENSATION SCHEME: Question

For what reasons the Assistant Chief Minister decided to pay the Chairman of the Jersey Bank Depositor Compensation Scheme £10,000 per annum and four other Board members £5,000 per annum when their predecessors did the job without remuneration and the  Board's functions are carried out by the Chief Minister's Department until such time that a bank failure occurs and the Board takes up its duties? Would he further advise members of the number of times that the Board has met in each year since it was established in 2009?

Answer

The Jersey Bank Depositors Compensation Board was appointed by the States to take over the running of the Jersey Bank Depositors Compensation Scheme in 2011, following the development of the Banking Business (Depositors Compensation) (Jersey) Regulations 2009.

The Assistant Chief Minister found that there were two significant responsibilities which should be taken into account concerning the role: firstly, the requirement of greater discretion in triggering the scheme; and secondly the additional work involved as a result of the changing landscape of deposit insurance.

The  decision  as  to  whether  to  trigger  the  scheme  in  the  event  of  a  bank  failure carries  significant responsibility. This is coupled with the fact that under the proposed changes to the legislation that are currently being developed there will be a greater degree of subjectivity over whether to trigger the scheme.

It was accepted by the Assistant Chief Minister that the level of responsibility will increase as a result of the changes to the legal framework. It was also accepted that this heightened level of responsibility deserves some level of remuneration due to the associated risks. Finally, it was accepted that there is an increased workload for the Board because this is a fast moving area internationally.

The previous Board met on a number of occasions but not formally as a Board because the functions were not passed over to them. They met five times in 2011, 3 times in 2012 and then once a year with the Minister in 2013, 2014 and 2015. It is expected that the new Board will meet quarterly and they have already met twice in 2016.

8. (9415) DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING ALLEGATIONS MADE AGAINST THE STATES OF JERSEY POLICE BY MR. ROY BOSCHAT:

Question

For what reasons the Assistant Minister decided to ask the Police Service of Northern Ireland to investigate allegations made against the States of Jersey Police by Mr Roy Boschat, what powers she has used in ordering that investigation, what estimate has been made of the cost to the States of the exercise, and from whose budget such costs will be paid.

Answer

The Assistant Minister for Home Affairs commissioned an independent investigation, to be conducted by the Police Service of Northern Ireland, following the receipt of an official complaint against the States of Jersey Police from Mr Roy Boschat.

The Assistant Minister used the power in Article 26 of the States of Jersey Law 2005, as delegated, which enables a Minister to enter into an agreement for the purpose of her office. The purpose of the Minister's office includes having overall and ultimate responsibility for the functioning of the States Police Force in accordance with Article 3 of the States of Jersey Police Force Law 2012.

Following the completion of their initial scoping visit, the Police Service of Northern Ireland are estimating the cost for the investigation, although any such estimate will be an indicative figure given the early stage of the investigation, and decisions will be taken subsequently regarding the source of funds.

9. (9416) DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING NET MIGRATION:

Question

How does the Chief Minister reconcile figures contained in an FOI request dated 24 March 2016, which show that Registered Housing and Work Law cards issued by the Social Security Department to new arrivals to the Island numbered 1,903 in 2014 and 2,177 in 2015, with the Council of Ministers stated policy of allowing net migration of 325 people per year to Jersey.

Answer

The number of people arriving in Jersey each year, and requesting registration cards, will always be greater than net migration, because every year people also leave Jersey. There is a large ebb and flow of people coming to and from the Island, reflecting the nature of our industries. The Statistics Unit will release its official figures for population and net migration in 2015 on the 22nd June, 2016.

10. (9417) DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING PAY RISES TO STAFF AT MANAGERIAL LEVEL:

Question

How many staff at managerial level to senior level in the Department for Infrastructure have received pay rises of more than £1,000 per year since November 2014?

Answer

As pay negotiations for 2015-2016 have not concluded there has not been a general pay award since January 2014.

The only increases in pay that have taken place since November 2014 have been as a result of contractual incremental progression, in accordance with normal States of Jersey terms and conditions of employment.

Due to the short deadlines for responding to this question as a result of bank holidays it has not been possible to respond fully by the 12:00 noon Friday deadline. Work is ongoing on analysing the information into the above categories and information will be provided to States Members as soon as possible.

APPENDIX (Circulated to States members on 10th May 2016)

Of the 88 individuals receiving an annual increase in pay of >£1,000 since November 2014 (taken as any one year, not a cumulative rise of >£1,000 over the 2 years concerned), the figures break down as follows:

Other Senior

Reason for Increase Manager Total

Employees Manager

Increased Hours 1 0 0 1 Moved to New Role 7 0 0 7 Promotion 2 2 0 4 Re-evaluation of Role 5 1 0 6 Standard Increment

Total

Senior Managers are Assistant Director level and above

Managers include : section managers, maintenance managers etc

Other  Employees  include  :  maintenance  staff,  EFW  operators,  chargehands,  electrical  and  mechanical technicians, motor traffic and parking control officers, drivers / labourers, management accountants, vehicle technicians, apprentices etc

Figures do not include Jersey Property Holdings, which was not part of DfI until January 2016.

As pay negotiations for 2015-2016 have not concluded there has not been a general pay award since January 2014.  Incremental progression up the standard pay scales is the only pay rise that employees have received in the period where the reason for increased pay has not been in relation to a change in role.

11. (9418)  DEPUTY  S.Y. MÉZEC  OF ST.  HELIER OF  THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH CIVIL SERVANTS' FLIGHTS: Question

Further to his answer to Question 9382 on expenses associated with civil servants' flights, if he will publish all of the information requested in that Question, or such information that has been collated up to now, immediately rather than when the review of travel policy is finally concluded.

Answer

As explained at the last States sitting, the extra information requested for 2014 and 2015 has been collated. It is now being analysed so that ministers' expenses can be extracted from payments made by senior civil servants which covered the expenses of both ministers and staff.

Work is still being done to establish detailed information for 2011-2013, as this information is not available on the same system as information from 2014 onward.

All this information will be published alongside the review into the States of Jersey's travel policy, which is due at the end of May. In future this information will be published regularly online.

12. (9419) DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE IDENTIFICATION OF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO HAVE SUBMITTED FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS:

Question

What steps are taken to ensure that identifying information about members of the public who make a Freedom of Information request is kept confidential from the States departments which are required to deal with the requests?

Answer

Article 2(1) of the Freedom of Information (Jersey) Law 2011 (the "2011 Law") requires the person submitting a request to give his or her name and contact details. For most purposes the 2011 Law is applied without regard to the identity and purpose of the person making the request. However, scheduled public authorities do often need to know who has submitted the request so that they can:

1. If necessary, seek further clarification or information in respect of the request so that it can be answered;
2. Determine whether the request should be dealt with under the 2011 Law, or as a subject access request under the Data Protection (Jersey) Law 2005 (the "2005 Law");
3. properly apply the provision in Article 16 of the 2011 Law (and in the Freedom of Information (Costs) (Jersey) Regulations 2014) concerning the cost limit on answering aggregated requests; and
4. Determine whether the request is vexatious or repeated for the purposes of Article 21 or 22 of the 2011 Law.

Notwithstanding the above, individuals who make FOI requests should have their details handled fairly and in accordance with the 2005 Law. Steps are taken to ensure that information about individual requesters is not shared unnecessarily.

13. (9420) DEPUTY S. Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING TAX INCOME COLLECTED FROM LANDLORDS RESIDING OUTSIDE JERSEY:

Question

How much tax income does the Minister estimate is not collected from landlords residing outside of Jersey but who derive a taxable income from their properties in Jersey?

Answer

Income from Jersey property is taxed at 20% regardless of the residency of the landlord – corporate or personal. The Comptroller of Taxes currently has no estimate of tax loss (either from undeclared rents or unpaid tax) in respect of non-resident landlords' income from Jersey rental properties.

The Taxes Office is currently exploring the feasibility of calculating Jersey's "tax gap" – the difference between what should theoretically be declared and what is actually collected.

Based on experience in other jurisdictions, this could take some years to achieve and to be statistically valid. It would be most useful as a longer-term indicator of trends in tax compliance.

It is unlikely that tax-gap analysis could of itself isolate any tax loss from non-compliant non-resident landlords but improved data and risk-analysis currently being developed in the Taxes Office may in due course help us to ascertain whether there is any disproportionate non-compliance by non-resident landlords.

14. (9421) DEPUTY S. Y. MEZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE INTRODUCTION OF HEALTH AND WASTE DISPOSAL TAXES:

Question

What progress has been made on introducing a new health tax and waste disposal tax and how much money has been spent so far on investigating the feasibility of introducing these new taxes?

Answer

The proposed measures for raising income to fund essential services are charges, rather than taxes. Health Charge

The Deputy is referred to the answer provided to written question 9245 http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/AssemblyQuestions/2016/Dep%20 Southern %20to%20TR%20re %20health%20charge%20as%20proposed%20in%20MTFP.pdf )

Since the provision of the previous answer there has been further workshops with the Council of Ministers and Chief Officers where a detailed options paper was presented. As outlined in the previous answer the Council of Ministers is committed to outlining plans for the health charge in the MTFP2 addition, scheduled to be lodged in June 2016.

In 2011 the Treasury sought external advice regarding the financing options for health and social services in Jersey; this advice cost £71,500.

Waste Disposal Charge

This element of the question would have been better directed to the Minister for Infrastructure. The following answer has been obtained from that Minister.

The Department for Infrastructure has been engaged in a number of workstreams, reviewing the operational areas of Waste and Municipal Services in particular, over the course of the last 8 months. One of these workstreams has considered the operational model for Waste and as a consequence includes work on the "user pays" basis for both liquid and solid waste processing. It is not possible to separate the cost of this work from the overall work on the operational model, efficiencies, structures, capital programme and consultations with interest groups.

The consultants employed by the department to review the operational model have submitted a draft Strategic Outline Case for the Waste Services division. Within this Strategic Outline Case there is discussion on potential "user pays" models for waste. However a decision on what model, if any, is adopted will have to be considered by the States at a future date.

15. (9422) DEPUTY M. R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING CONTRACTS RELATING TO THE ENERGY FROM WASTE PLANT:

Question

Will the Minister produce a table listing all contracts for more than £100,000 entered into by or for his Department relating to the Energy for Waste Plant since 2008, including information about the name of the firm involved, the nature or purpose of the contract, the dates the work started and was completed, and the amount paid.

Answer

It is not possible to collate the information required in the time allowed for this written question. The Minister and Officers from the Department for Infrastructure are happy to meet with the Deputy to share the available information and clarify what information the Deputy specifically seeks so that an accurate written answer can be provided.

3. Oral questions

Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

If I may, we were promised by the Minister for Education a paper on the grant situation by today but I do not see it on my desk.

The Bailiff :

On the grant situation. Deputy G.P. Southern :

The grant situation, higher education grants. I do not see anything on my desk at the moment. I wondered when it would be coming.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I am hoping that it will be during the course of the day. I have just reconfirmed the instruction to a staff member this morning, so I am hoping it will be by the end of the day.

1. (9427) Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Minister for Housing  regarding the potential existence of arrangements to circumvent the Tenants' Deposit Scheme:

What assessment has the Minister made of the potential existence of arrangements to circumvent the Tenants' Deposit Scheme without contravening current legislation on this matter; and what steps, if any, does she plan to take in response to the existence of any such arrangements?

Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Housing):

The legislation does not allow landlords to circumvent the Tenancy Deposit Scheme. The Residential Tenancy Law is clear - that a deposit is a payment of money which a landlord may hold as security against a tenant's performance of their obligation for the discharge of any liability. So if this payment can be returned to the tenant it is a deposit and should be protected in the Tenancy Deposit Scheme. If there is evidence to suggest that landlords are deliberately avoiding the Tenancy Deposit Scheme then we will take action and we continue to monitor the scheme to ensure they comply with the scheme.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

I thank the Minister for that initial response. The Minister, like me, will be aware that there is an individual who purports to be a spokesperson for what is called the Landlords Association, and boasts that he has found a way to subvert the scheme by charging 2 months' deposit in advance therefore not having to pay that money into the scheme. Could the Minister put it on record today, but also consider putting out a press release, that this is not a legitimate way to try and circumvent the scheme, which has been set up for the benefit of both tenants and landlords, and which is paid for by the tenant, and that such practices should not .. are not only illegal but they should be discouraged publicly.

The Deputy of Trinity :

Yes, I am very happy to do that. Just to correct the Deputy , he said that 2 months' deposit in advance, I think he was thinking about 2 months' rent in advance, but anyhow. If it is a deposit it is simple, it needs to be deposited in a Tenancy Deposit Scheme. If landlords take rent 2 or 3 months in advance that is rent and it should be actioned so, shown in the lease. We continue to monitor it and publications, and we talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau, the Community Bank and other organisations to try and make that very clear. But I am happy to promote more. Taking rent in advance is legal but it is rent. If it is a deposit for rental accommodation then that should be deposited in the scheme.

2. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier :

This new scheme was greeted with a lot of acclaim and criticism when it was launched. Can the Minister advise as to when the first review of the scheme is likely to occur? How enforceable is the S.L.A. (service level agreement) with the service provider should they fail to provide the service that the Minister is expecting?

The Deputy of Trinity :

We have a monthly update of how many deposits are put into the scheme. There is an annual report, which will be published at the end of November, being the end of the first full year. My Deposits come over regularly and continue to do workshops with landlords and also with the Community Bank which they are partnered with. Just to say absolutely at the end of the first 6 months, 1,200 deposits have been protected, which represents £1.5 million.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

I am somewhat confused by the answer. The Minister appears to be saying that if it is a deposit it is a deposit and if it is 2 months' advance rent it is 2 months' advance rent and seems to be indicating that this is a mechanism to get rid of the deposit.

[9:45]

Can she possibly pick another form of words so I might understand her? The Deputy of Trinity :

If a landlord wishes to take it as rent then it is rent, so therefore .. and it needs to be shown in the lease that they have taken one, 2, 3 months' rent or whatever. But if it is a deposit it is a deposit and therefore at the end of the lease, providing the accommodation is left in good condition or there is an agreement as to how much deposit is taken back, then their deposit will be refunded back to them. It is clear, rent is rent but then if a landlord takes rent in advance the landlord, if there are problems with the accommodation, the way the tenant has left the accommodation, he has no recourse.

4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

I think the Minister almost answered the question. Just to clarify: if 2 months' rent is taken and at the end of the tenancy the rent .. it is not used as rent but the actual landlord was trying to withhold it in case of any damage, would you prosecute the landlord, who is trying to misuse the scheme?

The Bailiff :

It is not a matter for the Minister to prosecute.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Would she try and make sure her officers deal with the people concerned in other ways? The Deputy of Trinity :

Indeed, I would, because it is - trying to make it clear - rent is rent, deposit is deposit, and should be safeguarded. If anybody has any evidence to show that it is not the case then, yes, we will refer to the Strategic Housing Unit and we will take action, as we have done.

5. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary :

Sorry to revert to the basic question but I am still confused. My understanding from what Deputy Tadier asked is that landlords are trying to circumvent the deposit arrangements by a scheme, not for deposit at all but for 2 months' rent, and therefore there is no deposit to return at the end. Would the Minister please clarify whether if a landlord does not seek a deposit and asks for 2 months' rent in advance there is no breach of the regulations?

The Deputy of Trinity :

No, taking rent in advance is legal as long as it shows in the lease that they have taken 2 months' rent or whatever period of time.

6. The Deputy of St. Mary :

Again, going back to Deputy Tadier 's question, my understanding is that the scheme which he alluded to does work: that the landlord requires 2 months' rent in advance, no deposit and therefore avoids the regulations, is that not the case?

The Deputy of Trinity :

If it is rent then the last 2 months, or whatever time that the person has, is rent so they do not need to pay the last 2 months, but the landlords are not protected. If the tenants leave the accommodation in bad condition the landlords have no recourse to come back to the tenant and say: "I will hold some of that rent money." If they do, then that needs to be referred to the Strategic Housing Unit because they cannot use the rent as a deposit.

7. Deputy M. Tadier :

It is just as well we are not debating shutting down tax avoidance loopholes here today, although it feels like it sometimes. It seems to me that the Minister is saying that I could pay 2 months upfront in January, that would cover my January and February rent, and as a renter I would simply not pay

anything until March. Then by the end of the year the landlord would have no deposit and the rent would be up to date or simply when it comes to 2 months before the end of my tenancy I stop paying rent and then it is up to the landlord to pursue me if there is any damage to the property, which does not help landlords. I think that is a dangerous message to send out to both the tenant and to landlords. Does the Minister agree with me that the problem with this scheme is that it is reactive and it is not proactive? It requires action on the part of the tenants, often whom do not have the wherewithal to know the law, who may not be fully conversant in the English language, and that we need a scheme, which is proactive, which puts an upfront requirement on what is expected both of tenants and of landlords. That requires the creation of a landlord register and that we should know in advance both what the rents are for properties and whether deposits are being taken and whether those deposits have been paid into the scheme; is that not the simplest way to go about this for everybody involved?

The Deputy of Trinity :

There are a lot of issues in that question, and I repeat, taking rent in advance - 2 months' rent - is legal but they can only use it as rent. If they take a deposit .. but also, a tenant needs to think: "Well, why is the landlord asking for all those months in advance?" That is a question that they need to ask too. Publicity is out with the Community Savings Bank, Citizens Advice, the other church organisations, and we will continue to publicise the scheme as much as possible.

2. (9428) Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the disappearance of Adrian Lynch:

Will the Minister provide an update on the latest information she has relating to the disappearance of Adrian Lynch?

Deputy K.L. Moore of St. Peter (The Minister for Home Affairs):

This is a case that has clearly caught the attention of every Islander, and I am grateful to the Deputy for maintaining the profile of this important case, and particularly among us, as most Members of the Assembly are parents themselves. I am sure we all want to remind Adrian's family how much we sympathise with them and express how we wish that after 5 terrible months of agony their pain could be eased by finding this young man, and answering the many questions they must have. I understand that the police have investigated all known feasible links of inquiry in relation to Adrian's disappearance. I am advised that the search for Adrian has generated over 560 investigative actions and more than 1,000 people have been spoken to, and nearly 250 witness statements have been recorded. This remains a live police investigation and 2 police officers are continuing to work full time on the case in order to ensure completeness and to make certain that no potentially relevant information has been overlooked. I understand that an internal review of documentation linked directly to the search is also nearing its completion for the purpose of addressing any vulnerability that might exist in the significantly resource intensive search phase of the operation. I am advised that there is still no credible indication of third party involvement or criminality, although the police remain alert to that possibility and are ready to respond to any new information that comes forward. The police also intend to issue a fuller update on the investigation in the coming days and it is hoped that Adrian's disappearance will remain high in the public's consciousness.

1. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I would like to thank the Minister for Home Affairs for her answer. If I could just elaborate on one part of it. I know that it was stated that the police investigation was externally reviewed by a partner agency or outside police force and a number of recommendations were made. Could she tell us what those recommendations were, whether they were accepted by the States of Jersey Police, and implemented and if not, why not?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

The Deputy is correct that 2 reviews have taken place from the National Crime Agency and the College of Policing. The police, I understand, have considered all recommendations in the context of local and detailed knowledge of our own officers and I am aware that most were implemented or are being implemented in some form. For the minority of recommendations that have not been implemented, the rationale has been recorded by the police as to why this is the case.

2. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

The answer, obviously the unknown, I would hope that the Minister will tell us what those recommendations were and why they were not adopted by the police, and then we can rest assured that everything is being done. Can the Minister also assure us that there are no financial reasons for not continuing the search?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

Let us start with the finances first. So far I am aware that the case has cost just in the region of £182,000 and that no additional funds have been requested to date. Purely because of the nature of the police's work there is always some case that requires a greater resource than another during the year, and so their budget allows for them to take account of that work and to be able to deal with it as and when it arises, because obviously we never know what is going to come before them. Then, for the second part of the question, which was the first point. I am afraid that I am going to have to give the answer that the Deputy will not want to hear but we often have this conversation. As the Deputy knows, I have political responsibility for the police but no operational control. It would be quite improper if I were to direct the police in any way, so therefore he might have to take up the first part of this question with the Chief of Police.

3. (9424) The Connétable of St. Helier of the Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding changes to the composition of the States Assembly:

Will the Chairman explain what changes to the composition of the States Assembly he anticipates may be achievable before the next election?

Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):

As Members, and indeed the Constable, will be aware the Reform Sub-Committee has held a number of lunchtime workshops to investigate reform options. We have taken into account views expressed my Members thus far and have drawn up 4 potential options for change, which will address voter inequality and equality in actual voting powers. However, before presenting these to the Assembly we have asked a senior research fellow in politics at Oxford University to verify the statistics upon which these options have been based. Once these have been confirmed a

presentation to all Members will be arranged to gauge their views and hopefully identify one of the options to take forward as a proposition for debate. Our intended timeline has slipped slightly but we are still optimistic that if an option is acceptable to Members changes could well be implemented before the next election in 2018.

1. The Connétable of St. Helier :

The timetable published on a States website says that by now, April/May 2016, we would be debating the necessary amendments so that they could be taken to Privy Council in June. Is the chairman still convinced that we can get these amendments debated even though the timetable appears to have slipped by a considerable period?

As I said in my opening remarks, the timetable has slipped because this is quite a complex issue and we have been trying to find a solution to the inequality and proportionality of voting for some 16, 17 years. It was not helped by the proposition a couple of years ago by the then Privileges and Procedures Committee to have a debate or to have a referendum on the Clothier proposals and we ended up with a referendum on the role of the Constables, which makes the proportionality and equality of voting very difficult if Constables are to remain in the States, and that was the view of the public, because we had a referendum on that. So the reason we have fallen behind is because of the complexity of the situation. But we are getting there and hopefully within the next 4 to 6 weeks we will have something to put before Members.

2. Deputy A.D. Lewis :

If I may say, I have been impressed so far with the Connétable and his committee's attempts to inform and involve States Members with this process. However, the public also want to be as involved with this as possible. They have made that very clear in the past. Could the Constable answer whether there is any intention to have any further referendum on this aspect of change within the States of Jersey, particularly in relation to the Senators, as consistently asked by constituents as to why we lost 4 Senators and what is the future of the Senators?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Whether there will be another referendum will be a matter for the States to decide but I think would depend on the level of change that the States wanted to have. Secondly, I would not support a referendum unless the States were already committed to the change. The last time we had a major referendum on this, not the Constables one, the one before that, the States had not committed to the change, we had the referendum, got the result and then did not go along with the result. I really think if we are going to have a referendum we have to make the decision ourselves first.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

I am sure the chairman is familiar with the old line: "How many P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedures Committee) members does it take to change a lightbulb?" and the answer to which is there is nothing wrong with the lightbulb. I would ask the chairman, how many of the 4 options that have been put forward currently have voter equity and voter power, in particular, so the amount of representation that any one constituent in the district gets? How many have that as its central tenet?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

We are seeking voter equity and power equity also. [10:00]

But while you have Constables in the States, elected by considerably different numbers of electors, it is almost impossible to achieve both. We are going to get as close as we possibly can and bring the possibly potential changes to the States very shortly.

4. Deputy M. Tadier :

Does the chairman agree that with having the Constables in this Assembly really only gives one option if one does want to achieve equality of voter power, and that is to rejig the Deputorial districts, as was put forward by the former manifestation of P.P.C., so that some Parishes which are over represented would lose their Deputies because they are adequately represented by Constables, at least in terms of numbers, and that other Parishes and Districts would be allocated more Deputies? Is this not the only solution if we are to achieve both voter equity and keep the Constables in the Assembly?

If we are going to be successful in finding a sensible way to reform the constitution of the States we have to have a consensus in the States and, even more important, a consensus of voters in the Parishes and in the Island. I think to suggest that the only way forward would be to remove the Deputies from some Parishes would immediately undermine any potential reform. There are a number of ways in which we can improve voter equity and, as I said, we will be bringing those forward very shortly. But I do not want to commit to one particular option at this moment in time.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

What consideration, if any, has this Committee given to the removal of the requirements to be a British citizen from those wishing to present themselves as candidates for election to the States?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

That is not a matter we have given any consideration to at all.

6. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Has the chairman and his committee given any thought to the idea of a bicameral system whereby the Constables could remain in the States and deal with parochial matters in a second chamber and that the main chamber be used by Senators and Deputies?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

No, we have not. Less than 2 years ago the public of Jersey voted overwhelmingly to keep the Constables in the States. The States have already once overturned the view of the public at a referendum. My committee is not about to do that again.

7. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

The suggestion was not to remove the Constables from the States. It was changing the nature of the States as a unicameral body to a bicameral body, in which case the Constables could be in the States and represent their Parishes and equally the Deputies and Senators can be in the States.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

The Constables are already in the States. There is no need to make a change. If you remove them into another chamber to discuss, as the Deputy said, Parish affairs you are effectively removing them from the States and that is not what the public said they wanted.

Senator P.M. Bailhache :

I have had my light on for a long time waiting for your eye. The Bailiff :

Senator, I certainly did not see either your light or your eye, but I am very pleased to give you the opportunity of asking a question.

8. Senator P.M. Bailhache :

Would the chairman agree that with our employees being told to face the possibility of redundancy it would be a scandal if the States failed to apply the same principle to the number of Members, which almost everybody agrees is too high?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I have great sympathy with the sentiments expressed in that question. [Laughter[

9. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Deputy Higgins has taken the one I wanted to talk about - a bicameral system - but perhaps I could just ask the chairman what lessons has he learned, and his committee learned, from the recent elections in Guernsey, particularly the high turnout, the fact that more women have been elected, and there is voter equity in Guernsey and a smaller number of States Members?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I will never admit or confess to learning anything at all from Guernsey. [Laughter] However, Guernsey did grasp the nettle of removing the Island-wide mandate, reducing the number of States Members and having equal-sized constituencies. We have tried that. The number of propositions that have come before this Assembly in its different form since the year 2000 to achieve precisely that have been numerous. But every time, somehow, they have been derailed and not acceptable to this Assembly. Unless a change is acceptable to this Assembly then there is going to be no significant change whatsoever. What I have learnt .. and of course the turnout, I do not think it was particularly higher than we normally have because they have a lot fewer people on their electoral register. So once you take that into account I think the turnout was probably very similar. As far as I am concerned, when I go to vote I do not go to vote for a woman or a man, I vote for the person who I think is the best candidate that will represent me the best. I am not sure if there was another question in there, but ..

The Connétable of St. Helier :

Just the achievement of voter equity. The Connétable of St. Clement :

The achievement of voter equity, absolutely. We have tried that. Many times. We have what we call super-constituencies where we have constituents with a similar number of voters in it, who will elect the same number of people. That has been rejected quite a number of times. But hopefully we will be able to achieve voter equity and the equality and the power of voting will get an improved situation than we have now for the 2018 election.

4. (9425) Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the proportion of Gross Domestic Product spent on health in Jersey:

What proportion of Gross Domestic Product is spent on health in Jersey and how does this figure compare with other jurisdictions?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

This is a question which a superficial answer does not do justice to. Different jurisdictions have different approaches to the funding of health care. Money available can also be spent efficiently or inefficiently. Relative levels of expenditure per se are not necessarily reliable indicators of better or worse health services or a right level of spending. Calculation of a percentage figure of spend for Jersey alone is problematic. To then compare that with other jurisdictions that fund and manage their health services in many different ways is misleading. However, to be helpful, I am advised that health spend in Jersey, as a percentage of G.D.P. (Gross Domestic Product), is estimated to be around 7 per cent, and raw published data for a basket of other jurisdictions suggests a figure of around about 11 per cent. However the KPMG report from 2011 of health spend for Islands and small countries showed our spend to be much higher, especially on the more relevant per capita basis.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Will the Minister attempt to answer in a fuller way - a less superficial way - what figures he might have to compare spend on health, in particular, because if we are to devote more and more of our

own resources to health we must know, I would think, what position we start off from before we assess how well we have done over the coming, let us say, remainder of the Medium Term Financial Plan.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I find myself agreeing with the Deputy entirely. I am very happy to supply more data. I think what I was alluding to in my answer that this perhaps was not the best question for an oral response. There is more detail that can be supplied in writing; I am more than happy to provide more information, together with health colleagues, in relation to the areas of particular focus for the Deputy . I agree with him, we must ensure that we are spending the right money and as efficiently as possible for the best outcomes. That is what we all, I am sure, in this Assembly want.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

I thank the Minister for his commitment to doing further research on this area.

2. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

The Minister has said that he is happy to provide information. Could I ask him if he would provide the information that he based his answer on? In other words, the report that you have mentioned so we can see the criteria that was used in the assessment?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I will pull together as much relevant information, together with colleagues from Health, as I can, and supply it to Members. Certainly with regard to the KPMG report, I am not familiar with whether it has been put into the public domain or not. I am sure it is possible to share it with Members but I will assess the current status of that particular report that my comments in part were based on.

5. (9430) Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding potential tax revenues not collected from individuals who reside outside Jersey who earn a taxable income from inside Jersey:

What measures, if any, does the Minister intend to take to investigate the potential tax revenues not collected from individuals who reside outside Jersey but who earn a taxable income from inside Jersey?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

I have already signalled my intention to bring forward measures over the next 2 years, which will empower the Taxes Office to improve Jersey taxpayers' compliance with the law regardless of where they live. I have also signalled in a written response to the Deputy today that the Taxes Office will do more analytical and statistical work to better understand the size of any tax gap. That is to say, the difference between what people should, in theory, pay under the law and what is actually paid. The Comptroller deploys his resources according to risk. He tells me that he has no data or information to hand which currently indicates a disproportionate level of non-compliance with the tax law by non-residents.

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

I thank the Minister for his answer both there and the written answer, both of which were very helpful, which makes it difficult to come up with a supplementary question. But would he give any sort of indication on to what scale he thinks this is a particular problem for Jersey, if indeed it is a problem, and could he indicate if there is any specific areas that he or his department are currently working on to try and crack down on any discrepancies there might be?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I thank the Deputy for his comments. We did try to be as helpful as possible with the answer, as is always the case. At this stage, no, I can only repeat again what the Comptroller has assured me. He does not believe that there is any great extent of non-compliance but at this stage he also accepts, and has brought to my attention, the fact that there is a lack of statistical and analytical data available, and that is an area that he is certainly focusing on. But it does take time, as has been the case in other jurisdictions. But we certainly have a highly competent Comptroller who is going to address these matters over the coming few years.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

In an associated matter with this particular area, has there been any change in the frequency and the type of use of 134A investigations into deliberate tax avoidance on the Island?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Not that I am familiar with, but I am more than happy to find out if that is the case. I certainly have no data available to suggest that is.

6. (9423) Deputy K.C. Lewis ofSt.Saviourofthe Minister for Environment regarding the presence of Oxadixyl in Jersey's water supply:

Further to the news on 28th April 2016 that Oxadixyl has been found in Jersey's water supply, will the Minister bring forward legislation to ban the use of certain high-strength domestic weed killers?

Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin (The Minister for Environment):

Before I get to the answer could I just address the phrasing of the Deputy 's question which may unintentionally be causing some Members just a little bit of confusion? I just want to be clear that Oxadixyl is not a weed killer, it is a blight spray and it is, and has not been, a chemical which has been available to domestic users. It was withdrawn in 2003 and has not been used in the Island since that time. When it was used by potato growers it was approved and only applied by trained operatives using properly calibrated equipment. Turning to the answer for the Deputy , the Pesticides (Jersey) Law 1991 states that: "The Minister may by Order impose specified prohibitions in relation to pesticides of a description specified in the Order. He [the Minister] may provide for the approval of pesticides of any description and he may provide for the imposition of conditions on an approval when or after it is given. Those conditions may apply to importation, sales, supply, storage and the use of those pesticides. Further, if any pesticide has been imported into Jersey in contravention of any of the specified prohibitions or any condition of approval of the pesticide the Minister may require that it shall be removed out of Jersey." So the answer for the Deputy is that I do not need to bring forward legislation to ban specific pesticides because the power already exists.

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I am aware of the different Oxadixyl being used to combat potato blight. My question really was pollution of our water supply generally. We have had problems in the past. Obviously at Portelet with the dumped potatoes, we have had P-Phos contaminating west of the airport.

[10:15]

We have had Oxadixyl in the St. Ouen area with Val de la Mare reservoir, and I understand there is chemical pollution of the east of the Island as well, in those reservoirs. I am sure that both Environment and Jersey Water are doing the very best they can but we live in an Island 9 by 5 with over 100,000 people now living here, we must be extremely careful. My question relates to the high strength domestic weed killers, most of which contain Glyphosate, which the European Union is considering banning. Most people when they use the weed killers domestically tend to use over strength and this is where the thrust of my question is coming from. Does the Minister believe that the high strength weed killers should be controlled and will he increase his amnesty for people who have garden sheds full of very toxic chemicals, sometimes going back 25 years, sitting on the shelf, which should be disposed of safely?

The Deputy of St. Martin :

I am happy to agree with the Deputy on all the points he raises there. I am also happy to say that I will extend the amnesty if he feels there is a need for me to do so. There is a distinction I could just make again between agricultural and domestic chemicals and he is quite right to point out that many domestic gardeners have garden sheds with chemicals and sprays; chemicals they have used for many years in the back of their sheds, which they dig out occasionally for certain problems that occur. In many cases some of these chemicals may well have been banned and removed from the approved list many years ago. The danger also with the domestic user is that he has not necessarily followed a course for using a piece of equipment, which may not be properly calibrated. As the Deputy quite rightly points out, the temptation is always if you have a little bit of a problem to just add a bit more to make sure it goes away. We recently had a highlighted incident in St. Peter where a chemical called Diuron, which is used to spray weeds, usually on hard surfaces against a wall or on tarmac, was found in a reservoir and quite clearly that is a domestic user who has inadvertently used this chemical, probably through a watering can, and it has ended up in a reservoir. So I would agree with the Deputy . Domestic users need to be just as vigilant as agricultural professional users and I would just agree with the Deputy again, water is a precious commodity. It is vital to our Island and the safety of it is non-negotiable, and I will come down hard on anybody I find abusing that privilege.

2. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Can the Minister explain why it has taken 13 years - if it was last used in 2003 - for it to suddenly appear in the water supply? Or is it the fact that we have not been testing for it?

The Deputy of St. Martin :

I can confirm to the Deputy that we have not been testing for it in that time. The discovery of Oxadixyl in our water supply was a shock, not only to my department but also to Jersey Water. This chemical went out of use in 2003 and has not been used since. The half-life of the chemical in air and in the soil and in the sun is very short and after a number of months it disappears completely. What was not realised that if it gets into the water supply it sits there very happily for long periods of time without diluting. Jersey Water came across this chemical because they changed the lab that they use in England for testing their water and the new lab provided a test for Oxadixyl quite coincidentally where the other lab had not. Suddenly we had results coming back on to the Island which showed that Oxadixyl is present in our water. Since that time we have worked as a department very closely with Jersey Water and with the industry to increase our testing, up to 6 times more tests now being taken to identify where this problem is. But I have to say to the Deputy , I think he is quite correct in saying that the chemical has been there all this time and we have not detected it because the test was not being done.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

Further to a question I asked on 20th October 2015: does the Minister agree that we need a general ecocide law in Jersey under which all of these issues to do with pollution, irrespective of whether these are currently banned or yet to be banned, can be taken into account?

The Deputy of St. Martin :

What I can say to the Deputy is that he will be aware, I am sure, that a new Water Plan was going to be published by my department earlier this year. But when the chemical issue came to light I asked it to be taken back so we could re-emphasise the sections of it which applied to pesticides and chemicals generally. This new Water Plan will be coming out now in the summer and I can assure the Deputy that there will be areas in it .. he will see that we are concentrating very heavily on all pollutants or potential pollutants. The plan was initially targeted at nitrates but it now will certainly have an equal, if not more of a bearing, towards chemicals, pesticides that may or may not get into our water. I cannot reiterate enough that water is precious and on our Island we only have storage capacity and the desalination plant. What we store is really important to us and keeping it safe is vital.

4. Deputy P.D. McLinton of St. Saviour :

I found my father clearing out his shed and Lord knows if you lost it, it is probably in there. There are any amount of strange chemicals I imagine at the back of that shed. Is there, as the question from Deputy   Lewis is regarding the public's use of chemicals, a point of contact within the Environment Department where the public can call and ask a question with regard to some of the strange fluids they may have in their sheds and if not, will the Minister commit to having a point of contact for advice and also possibly a web page where some of the more web savvy might also go and find out the answers to their questions?

The Deputy of St. Martin :

I can say to the Deputy I will investigate the possibility of a website which will help those who wish to use computers. But certainly anybody who phones the Department of the Environment will be put through to the officers responsible, the officers with the knowledge, the officers with the list in front of them, and the trade name and the active ingredient within the trade name will be known to officers and advice can be given to all domestic users. As I said before to Deputy Lewis , I am happy to extend the amnesty and if domestic users have chemicals there I am sure they are very welcome to bring them to the department for correct disposal.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

It has taken over a decade for this problem to surface. Is the Minister aware of any other toxic materials in the pipeline, as it were, which may surface in the future. Has there been commercially- used insecticides or whatever used in the last decade which may cause problems going forward?

The Deputy of St. Martin :

I have to say to the Deputy , of all the chemicals we have used, presently and in the past, we are happy to confirm that none of them are giving us cause for concern to be above the safety limit. But there is one chemical, which we have identified quite recently, which is in use at the moment. It is an old chemical which has been used for quite some time. Mancozeb is the name and we, are at the moment, still identifying a test for it. That is work I have prioritised and we will shortly have that. The Deputy can be assured that I have told officers and I am working very closely with Jersey Water to make sure that this Oxadixyl-type incident does not happen again. I do not want to be in a position in 10 years' where we identify another chemical which we have not been testing for. I know that my officers in Jersey Water have taken this very seriously indeed.

6. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

It was the chemical Glyphosate which I was concentrating on, which appears not only in farmland but also in domestic products. I am aware that farmers undergo training and the correct use of herbicides and pesticides but regarding the general public, it is literally in small print on the back of a container. I am sure Jersey Water does its absolute best, along with the Environment Department to keep our water clean but there is no Plan B. Jersey Water can shut down reservoirs and blend

with other reservoirs but if all Island reservoirs become polluted we are in serious trouble. Hopefully the Minister will take this on board and, as he said, come down heavily on any misuse of chemicals; does the Minister not agree?

The Deputy of St. Martin :

I do, and the Deputy quite rightly highlights the fact that while we have a number of reservoirs on the Island we have 2 that provide the vast majority of our water storage. One at Val de le Mare at the west and Queen's Valley in the east, and it is an absolute priority to make sure that those 2 reservoirs do not become contaminated. I know that Jersey Water are prioritising the updating and doubling in capacity of their desalination plant at La Moye. That work will be finishing towards the end of the summer and certainly I have asked them to prioritise other works to safeguard our 2 main water storage areas. But I can only agree with the Deputy that water has to be safeguarded as much as we possibly can.

7. (9432) Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Savour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the rate of suicide amongst young men:

What action, if any, is the Minister taking to reduce the rate of suicide among young men?

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

Before I start, I would like to say that every suicide is an absolute tragedy and we must do all that we can to prevent it. Mental health is everybody's business. It is not solely the responsibility of health officers or even the Minister for Health. Cross-government voluntary sector, wider community support is essential to improve mental health and reduce vulnerability to the risk of suicide. That said, my department has taken the lead on co-ordinating a multi-agency partnership working through the mental health strategy and related prevention of suicide framework for action. A prevention of suicide framework has been developed and this is supported and endorsed by the States Corporate Management Board. It involves a collaborative approach across departments and wider agencies to address the wide range of factors that decrease the risk of suicide. Priority objective areas are: improving mental health and well-being in vulnerable groups, reducing the stigma about suicidal feelings, reducing the risk of suicide in high-risk individuals, and improving information and support to those who have been bereaved by suicide. A new programme called "Connecting with People" has been commissioned and funded jointly by the multi-agency membership of the Prevention of Suicide Steering Group. This training programme represents an up-to-date evidence-based approach to the development of skills, knowledge, attitudes to suicide mitigation in young people as well as adults.

The Bailiff :

You are coming to the end of your 90 seconds? Senator A.K.F. Green:

I am, Sir, but it is a complex subject. Earlier this year a new local bereavement resource for people who have been affected by death and suicide was also realised. Mental health strategy and the prevention of suicide framework, actions working together in synergy have impact on reducing the risk of suicide. It is not one action but a collective action together that will support us in developing a health, more resilient Island population.

The Bailiff :

Minister, you might wish to tell your officials they are 30 per cent over the time limit.

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

I thank the Minister for his answer. Of course I agree all suicides are a concern, whatever demographic. I just wanted to press on the particular demographic of young men. Is the Minister aware of possible social factors behind this problem? In particular, that they have been highlighted by a new charity, which I mentioned to the Minister the other day, because it does seem that there is.. in the health profile, from 2014, it showed there were significantly more suicides from young men. So is the Minister aware of the social factors behind why this demographic are particularly affected?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

What I am aware of is that throughout Europe young men seem to be more vulnerable. The figures I have for Jersey - and every death is unacceptable and a tragedy - but the figures I have for Jersey show that we are considerably lower than U.K. (United Kingdom) and the rest of Europe. Having said that, one is too many. Young men seem to be particularly vulnerable and the strategy that we have developed is helping to support with education, with the police, and voluntary sector, helping to support those families.

2. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

Would the Minister consider an awareness campaign perhaps as part of a broader campaign which would be targeted at this demographic to help mitigate some of the social factors? The charity I mentioned is called C.A.L.M. (Campaign Against Living Miserably) and they feel that the pressure on boys and men to be strong, to be a winner, they feel they are not able to talk as much. Could the Minister target these social factors somehow with a campaign to young men feel that they can talk and they can access the services that are provided by his department?

Senator A.K.F. Green

The quick answer to that is of course, yes. I want everybody, not just young men - but young men is what we are talking about today - to be able to discuss their feelings safely to get the support that they need at the right time. Not quite the right word but for the community to empathise and sympathise when someone has a mental health issue or is suffering from stress, just in the same way as they would if somebody had a broken leg. We have the mental health strategy day tomorrow and we have the Mental Health Awareness Week next week and we will certainly look at targeting young people as the Deputy requested.

[10:30]

8. (9429) Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the potential impact on the Jersey economy of a U.K. exit from the European Union:

Could the Minister advise members what work, if any, he has carried out to assess the potential impact on the Jersey economy of a U.K. exit from the European Union?