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STATES MINUTES 1 5t h J anuary 1991
THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 15th January 1991 at 10.15 a.m. under the Presidency of the Deputy Bailiff ,
V e rnon Amy Tomes, Esquire.
___ _________
His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor, Air Marshal Sir John Sutton, K.C.B.,
w as pr esent.
___ _______ __
All Members were present with the exception of -
L eonard René Hamel, Connétable of St. C lement - ill.
I ris Medora Le Feuvre, Connétable of
S t. Lawrence - out of the Island.
R ichard Winter Le Sauteur, Connétable
o f Grouville - out of the Island.
R onald Winter Blampied, Deputy of St. H elier - out of the Island.
M aurice Clement Buesnel, Deputy of St. H elier - ill.
P ercy John Le Masurier, Deputy of St.
O uen - out of the Island.
___ _______ __
P r aye rs
___ _______ __
The President administered the oath
of office to the newly-appointed Greffier of the States, Ronald Stanley Gray, Esquire.
Subordinate legislation tabled
The following enactments were laid before the States, namely -
1 . Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) ( A m endment No. 3) (Jersey) Order 1990. R & O 8152.
2 . Motor Vehicles (Construction and U s e ) (Amendment No. 24) (Jersey)
O r der 1990. R & O 8153.
3 . Post Office (Foreign Post
P r ovi sions) (Amendment No. 18) ( Je r sey) Order 1990. R & O 8154.
4 . Post Office (Foreign Parcel Post P r ovi sions) (Amendment No. 12) ( Je r sey) Order 1990. R & O 8155.
5 . Pilotage (Dues and Fines)
( A m endment No. 2) (Jersey) Order 1990. R & O 8156.
6. Import and Export (Control)
( A m endment No. 5) (Jersey) Order 1991. R & O 8157.
7 . Importation of Equine Animals
( A m endment No. 5) (Jersey) Order 1991. R & O 8158.
8 . Miscellaneous Diseases of Animals ( Je r sey) Order 1991. R & O 8159.
La Caroline, La Grande Rue, St. Mary (P.125/90): report. P.1/91
The Island Development Committee by
Act dated 29th November 1990, presented to the States a report on the site known as
La Caroline', on La Grande Rue, St. Mary .
THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.
Housing needs - Special Committee: report. P.3/91
The Committee of Inquiry into the future housing needs of the Island presented its report to the States.
THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.
Matters noted - land transactions
THE STATES noted an Act of the
Finance and Economics Committee dated 10th December 1990, showing that in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land, the Committee had approved -
( a) as recommended by the Agriculture and F isheries Committee, the lease
t o M r. Charles Anthony Fossey of
an a rea of 2.35.00 vergées of land
at L a Grande Maison, St.
C at herine, for a period of one
year from 1st January 1991, at an
annua l rent of #575 representing
#200 a vergée;
(b) as recommended by the Agriculture
and F isheries Committee the lease
t o M r. Mark Le Quesne and Mr. Alan D o ugl as Le Quesne of an area of
6.36.00 vergées of land at La
G r and e Maison, St. Catherine, for
a pe riod of one year from 1st
J anu ary 1991, at an annual rent of
#1,656 , representing #240 a
ver gée;
( c) as recommended by the Public
H e al th Committee, the lease to Mr. B ar ry Clement Rondel of Field
1547, W estmount, St. Helier , for
t he per iod of one year from 1st
J anu ary 1991, at an annual rent of #60;
( d) as recommended by the
E duca tion Committee, the lease
f rom Mrs. Eileen Mary Gaudin, née L e S ueur and Mrs. Jennifer
McM ullon, née Gaudin of two three- bedr oomed properties at 1 and 2
B el le Rive Villas, Le Hocq Lane,
S t . C lement, for a period of two
year s, commencing 1st August 1990, at a r ent of #130 a week each,
w i t h an option to renew for a
t hi r d year, subject to a rent
r ev iew at the beginning of the
t hi r d year;
( e) as recommended by the
H o us ing Committee the grant to The J er s ey Electricity Company Limited of a servitude in perpetuity, free
of c harge, for the high tension
cabl e at Orchid Court, St. Helier ,
i n a ccordance with Plan No. 24L,
w i t h each party being responsible
f or t he payment of its own legal
cos ts;
( f) as recommended by the
H o us ing Committee, the grant of a s er vi tude to Fairview Farm Limited t o l ink the drainage for a
deve lopment of 16 flats, in
acc ordance with Drawing No. 1266/2 i n F ield 673, Rue du Trot, St.
Mar tin, to the head of the drain
w i t hin the Maufant Estate, for the
s um of #250 for each of the 16
uni ts, with the company being
r es pons ible for the payment of all
l egal fees;
( g) as recommended by the Public
H e al th Committee the lease from
Mr s . Clara Altstadt née Mayer of
F l a t 4, Theresa Court, Old St.
J ohn' s Road, St. Helier for a
per iod of three years from 12th
N o vem ber 1990 at an annual rent of #5,460 , subject to annual
i nc r eases in line with the Jersey
C os t of Living Index;
( h) as recommended by the Public
H e al th Committee, the lease from
Mr s . Anne Dorothy Taylor , née
B r ooks bank of the two-bedroomed
pr op erty La Cachette, Route de
C at illon, Grouville , for a period
of o ne year from 8th December 1990 at a r ent of #170 a week.
Matter noted - financial transaction
THE STATES noted an Act of the
Finance and Economics Committee dated 10th January 1991, showing that in pursuance of Rule 5 of the Public Finances (General) (Jersey) Rules 1967, as amended, the Committee had noted that the Housing Committee had accepted the lowest of five tenders, namely that submitted by R.J. Wilkinson in the sum of #449,831 in a contract period of 42 weeks for the construction of three two-bedroomed houses and two three-bedroomed houses, each with garage at Balleine Close, St. Clement .
Matters lodged
The following subjects were lodged au Greffe'' -
1 . Lodging houses and seasonal w o r kers' accommodation:
gui delines. P.2/91.
P r es ented by the Public Health C om mittee.
2 . Draft Housing (General Provisions) ( A m endment No. ) (Jersey)
R egul ations 199 - price control.
P .4/ 91.
P r es ented by the Housing
C om mittee.
THE STATES noted that in pursuance of Standing Order 17(6) the following subjects, which were lodged au Greffe'', had been withdrawn -
1 . West of Albert Pier reclamation s it e: development: sub-paragraph ( a ). P .53/89.
L odged : 2nd May 1989.
P ubl ic Services Committee.
2 . Rezoning of land for Category A hous ing. P.57/89.
L odged : 9th May 1989.
I sl and Development Committee.
3 . Rezoning of land for Category A hous ing (P.57/89): amendment.
P .2/ 90.
L odged : 9th January 1990.
A g r iculture and Fisheries
C om mittee.
4 . West of Albert Pier: temporary bui lding for agricultural produce. P .158/ 89.
L odged : 12th December 1989.
A g r iculture and Fisheries
C om mittee.
Arrangement of Public Business for the present Sitting
THE STATES confirmed that the following subjects lodged au Greffe should be considered at the present Sitting -
D raft Finance (Jersey) Law 199 . P .191/90.
L odged: 4th December 1990.
F inance and Economics
C ommittee.
D raft Road Traffic (No. 39)
( Jersey) Regulations 199 . P.193/90. L odged: 11th December 1990.
D efence Committee.
L angford, Mont Millais, St.
H elier: purchase. P.194/90.
L odged: 11th December 1990.
I sland Development Committee.
L ighting of main roads in St. H elier. P.195/90.
L odged: 11th December 1990. P ublic Services Committee.
D raft Census (Jersey)
R egulations 199 . P.192/90.
L odged: 11th December 1990. E tat Civil Committee.
Arrangement of Public Business for the next Sitting on 29th January 1991
THE STATES confirmed that the following subjects lodged au Greffe should be considered at the next Sitting on 29th January 1991 -
S ex discrimination. P.135/90. L odged: 11th September 1990. S enator C. Stein.
L odging houses and seasonal
w orkers' accommodation: guidelines. P .2/91.
L odged: 15th January 1991.
P ublic Health Committee.
D raft Housing (General
P rovisions) (Amendment No. ) ( Jersey) Regulations 199 - price c ontrol. P.4/91.
L odged: 15th January 1991.
H ousing Committee.
Credit transactions. Questions and answers
Senator Terence John Le Main asked Senator Pierre François Horsfall, President of the Finance and Economics Committee the following questions -
Q uestion 1
Will the President inform the House w hether his Committee intends to
e xercise stricter control over
c ompanies, banks, financial
i nstitutions and retailers in respect
o f the offering of instant credit to
c ustomers?''
The President of the Finance and Economics Committee replied as follows -
I am not aware that there are
w idespread problems at present arising i n this area that would justify the
c omplex legislation that would be
r equired to effect the control to
w hich the Senator has referred and
w hich does not exist in the United
K ingdom legislation.''
Senator Le Main Q uestion 2
Will the President consider
p romoting legislation in relation to
o ffers of credit facilities to protect
t he customer by requiring certain
i nformation to be clearly stated, e.g.
m onthly amounts of repayments, total c ost, annual percentage rate of
i nterest, total interest payable as a
s eparate figure from amount of loan?''
President, Finance and Economics Committee
Such legislation would be similar to
t he United Kingdom's Consumer Credit A ct and would involve a considerable
a mount of law drafting time and
s everal staff to administer. The
l egislation is intricate and not
r eadily distilled into simpler terms.
H owever, the majority of institutions
m aking credit available in Jersey are
U nited Kingdom based and often
voluntarily provide such information
t o their customers, and I am sure it
w ould be helpful to customers if this
w ere to be adopted generally.''
Senator Le Main Q uestion 3
Will the President also consider
m aking provision for the protection of c ustomers by requiring the inclusion
o f a warning not to sign an agreement
u nless the customer is sure that he
c an afford the repayments, and
p rovision for there to be a cooling
o ff period during which the customer
c ould decide not to proceed with the
t ransaction?''
President, Finance and Economics Committee
Provision could be made in relevant l egislation for warning notices and
f or cooling off periods. It would be
f or consideration also, however,
w hether these and other aspects
r eferred to in the previous question
s hould not be dealt with as part of a
g eneral review of consumer protection
i n the Island. There are numerous
a reas where consumer protection laws
h ave been enacted in the United
K ingdom but not followed here and much
o f that legislation is inter-
c onnected. It would be appropriate
t herefore to obtain an overview of the
l egislation before deciding to
i mplement any one part of it. The wide
r anging nature of the legislation
w ould suggest that a number of
C ommittees would be involved, and how t he matter may then be progressed is
s omething I shall be happy to discuss
w ith the President of the Policy and
R esources Committee, whom I know
a lready has these matters under active
c onsideration.''
Visiting yachtsmen, berth and marina facilities. Questions and answers
Senator Terence John Le Main asked Senator Bernard Thomas Binnington, President of the Harbours and Airport Committee the following questions -
Q uestion 1
Can the President inform the House
o f the amount of revenue derived
d uring 1989 from visiting yachtsmen,
i .e. in respect of mooring fees,
s hopping, restaurants, etc., and can
h e also confirm that Guernsey received r evenue amounting to £7.9 million from s uch sources in the same year?''
The President of the Harbours and Airport Committee replied as follows -
It is estimated that the amount of
r evenue derived from visiting
y achtsmen in 1989 amounted to between
# 8-#9 million. This figure is
c alculated using the number of
v isiting yachtsmen and multiplying
t hat number by a figure obtained from
t he Economic Adviser's office as a
r esult of a survey of the spending
p atterns of the visiting yachtsmen.
T he figure of #7.9 million which is
q uoted as the revenue received by
G uernsey in that year from similar
s ources was obtained from a report
p ublished by the Guernsey Tourism D epartment and as a result of a survey c onducted in that year by a company e mployed by them.''
Senator Le Main Q uestion 2
Can the President inform the House h ow many local berths there are in all s heltered harbours and marinas in
J ersey and what is the amount of the a nnual revenue derived from these
b erths?''
President, Harbours and Airport Committee
There are 1,544 berths in local
h arbours and marinas allocated to
l ocal yachtsmen and the annual revenue d erived during the year 1990 from
t hese berths amounted to #81,433.''
Senator Le Main Q uestion 3
Can the President indicate how long i t is likely to be before another
m arina is built in Jersey, where it
w ill be and how many berths it will
p rovide?''
President, Harbours and Airport Committee
It is difficult under present
c ircumstances to indicate how long it
w ill be before another marina is
c onstructed in Jersey, as this matter
i s presently being considered by the
I sland Development Committee's
a dvisers, Andrews Downie and Partners, a nd will therefore be included in
t heir report which will be debated by
t he States some time this year. The
H arbours and Airport Committee has
s ince 1986 had plans to construct a
1 ,000 yacht marina west of the Albert
P ier.''
S upplementary question and answer
S enator Le Main - Is it wise to
c ontinue to proceed with the
i nvestigation into a 1,000 yacht
m arina west of the Albert Pier before
c oming back to this House for some
i ndication whether this House would be i n approval of building such a marina
s o close to Elizabeth Castle?''
P resident, Harbours and Airport
C ommittee - The investigations were c onducted in 1986 and in fact took the f orm of an engineering feasibility
s tudy and an Economic Adviser's
e conomic feasibility study. No further i nvestigations are being undertaken
b ut the whole matter is now in the
h ands of the Island Development
C ommittee and their associates and
t heir advisers to see whether it is
r ight for the marina to be built there
o r elsewhere along the south coast.''
Senator Le Main Q uestion 4
Will the President consider the
p rovision of extra marina facilities
a s a matter of urgency to provide
J ersey with an additional source of
i ncome, having regard to the recession w hich exists in the United Kingdom?''
President, Harbours and Airport Committee
My Committee does consider that the p rovision of extra marina facilities
i s a matter of urgency, not only as an
a dditional source of income but having d ue regard to the considerable demand f or these facilities in the Island
b oth from visitors and residents
a like.''
Estate agents valuation fees. Question and answer
Senator Corrie Stein asked Senator Pierre François Horsfall, President of the Finance and Economics Committee the following question -
Will the President inform the House
o f the total amount of valuation fees
p aid to local estate agents by each
C ommittee for the year 1990?''
The President of the Finance and Economics Committee replied as follows -
The expenditure during the year 1990
o n property valuations carried out by
l ocal estate agents amounts to #57,833 m ade up as follows -
D e f ence Committee #1,38 0
P ubl ic Services Committee #43 2
E duca tion Committee # 6,153
P ubl ic Health Committee #10,965 S oci al Security Committee #5,000
I sl and Development Committee #5,29 8
H o us ing Committee # 27,085
H a r bours and Airport Committee #1, 520
T he practice for such valuations in
t he future may well be modified, of
c ourse, by the current review being
u ndertaken by the Policy and Resources C ommittee of the Land Office and
P roperty Management Department.''
S upplementary questions and answers
S enator J.S. Rothwell - Could the
P resident tell us how much of the
e xpenditure in this respect by the
H ousing Committee totalling #27,085 is d ue to the exercise of price
c ontrol?''
P resident, Finance and Economics C ommittee - I am afraid I will
h ave to have notice of that question. I cannot answer it, the President of H ousing may, but I certainly cannot, b ut I could at a later date.''
S enator R.J. Shenton - In view of the w ord local' being used in the
q uestion, were there any fees paid out t o other than local' estate agents,
i .e. other valuers. We seem to have so m any specialists these days coming
a long that I just wonder if perhaps
t he local' context is, shall we say,
n ot taking account of perhaps fees
t hat have been paid to people based
o utside of the Island?''
P resident, Finance and Economics
C ommittee - I do not know how much w ould have been paid, but certainly
t here would have been fees paid for
e xample, to the negotiator employed by t he Policy and Resources Committee on t he commercial site acquisitions in
t he town. It would be possible to
p rovide that answer at a later time.
T he question specifically related to
l ocal estate agents and I have to
a dmit that the point made by Senator
S henton had escaped me, but certainly
i t has to be that there would have
b een some fees paid outside of the
I sland in relation to the acquisition
o f commercial sites, but also I would
a dd that somebody asked about the
H ousing Committee, of course the
H ousing Committee would have incurred a large number of fees in relation to
t he site acquisitions which have been
q uite numerous in recent years as a
r esult of P.57 but also other houses
a nd properties that have been bought
b y the Housing Committee, I would have e xpected that figure to be quite
h igh.''
S enator C. Stein - Do we confine
o urselves to one practice or do we use m ore and do we also pay a
c oncessionary fee to those or that
e state agent, or do we pay the normal g oing fees?''
P resident, Finance and Economics
C ommittee - We use a number of
e state agents, they have to be
p rofessionally qualified in the skill
o f valuation, we have actually used
f ive different agents in the past year
t o provide valuations, but these can
b e for various reasons, such as a
s peciality, for example agricultural
l and, you would perhaps go to a
d ifferent valuer than you might if it
w as a commercial property, and the
o ther thing of course, the choice of
a gent can sometimes be dictated by the f act that the vendor will ask for the
i ndependent valuation, it has to be
i ndependent, therefore if the vendor
h as himself or herself retained a
v aluer, then it cannot be that one, so
i t does mean that we have to move
a round a number of valuers. The fees p aid are normally the scale fee,
t hough on occasion we do have a
d iscounted fee, but in the main they
a re the scale fee which is .25 of a
p er cent.''
Public Employees Contributory Retirement Scheme: Committee of Management - appointment of member
THE STATES adopting a proposition of the Establishment Committee, approved, in accordance with Regulation 3(2) of the Public Employees (Contributory Retirement Scheme) (General) (Jersey) Regulations 1989, the appointment of Senator R.J. Shenton as a member of the Committee of Management for the remainder of the period ending 31st December 1991.
Manual Workers' Joint Council:
Employers' Side Membership - appointment of members
THE STATES adopting a proposition
of the Establishment Committee, in accordance with an Act of the States dated 9th November 1961, concerning the membership of the Manual Workers' Joint Council, approved the nomination of the six representatives of the States to serve as Members of the Employers' Side, as follows -
S enat or R.J. Shenton S enat or J.S. Rothwell S enat or Corrie Stein D e put y S.M. Baudains D e put y T.J. Jordan
D e put y F.H. Walker .
St. Martin 's School extension
THE STATES adopting a proposition of the Education Committee -
( a) approved Drawing No. 2708/52a s how ing the construction of a new nur sery unit at St. Martin 's
S chool ;
( b) authorised the Greffier of the
S t a tes to sign the said Drawing on beha lf of the States.
Suspension of Standing Order No. 18
THE STATES adopting a proposition of
the Harbours and Airport Committee, agreed to suspend Standing Order No. 18 in order to allow the proposition of that Committee regarding the appointment of members to the Jersey Transport Authority to be considered at the present Sitting.
Jersey Transport Authority: appointment of members
THE STATES, adopting a proposition
of the Harbours and Airport Committee referred to their Acts dated 10th June 1980 and 5th May 1987 regarding the constitution of the Jersey Transport Authority and appointed the following as members of the Authority -
S enat or R.R. Jeune , O.B.E.
D e put y T.J. du Feu of St. Peter D e put y R.E.R. Rumboll of St. H e l ier.
Finance (Jersey) Law 1991. P.191/90
THE STATES, subject to the sanction
of Her Most Excellent Majesty in Council, adopted a Law entitled the Finance (Jersey) Law 1991.
Road Traffic (No. 39) (Jersey) Regulations 1991. P.193/90
THE STATES in pursuance of the
powers conferred on them by the Order in Council of the twenty-sixth day of December 1851 and Article 49 of the Road Traffic (Jersey) Law 1956, as amended, made Regulations entitled the Road Traffic
(No. 39) (Jersey) Regulations 1991.
Langford, Mont Millais, St. Helier : purchase. P.194/90
THE STATES, adopting a proposition of the Island Development Committee -
( a) approved the purchase from Mr.
D a vi d Alfred Bisson and Mrs.
Mar jorie Mary Bisson, née Hamel, of t he property known as Langford, Mont Millais, St. Helier for the
agr eed sum of #2,160,000, the
agr eement being conditional on the publ ic meeting the vendor's costs
i nv olved in the sale and the
cont ract being passed by the Royal C our t before 1st February 1991;
( b) authorised the payment or
di schar ge of the expense to be
i nc ur red in connexion with the
acqu isition of the said land and
al l i nterests therein and the
paym ent of all legal expenses from
t he I sland Development Committee's
vot e of credit Acquisition of
L and - Major Reserve'' (Vote No. C 0904 );
( c) authorised the Attorney General and t he Greffier of the States to
pas s on behalf of the public any cont racts which might be found nece ssary to pass in connexion
w i t h the said properties and any i nt er ests therein.
Lighting of main roads in St. Helier . P.195/90
THE STATES, adopting a proposition
of the Public Services Committee approved the provision of an annual grant in the sum of #50,000, to the Parish of St. Helier which amount would be subject to regular review, to assist with the cost of the provision of street lighting in the Parish
of St. Helier .
Census (Jersey) Regulations 1991. P.192/90
THE STATES, having accepted an amendment of the Etat Civil Committee that in Regulation 11, paragraph 1, sub- paragraph (b) should be deleted and sub- paragraph (c) re-lettered (b), and in pursuance of Article 2 of the Census (Jersey) Law 1951, made Regulations entitled the Census (Jersey) Regulations 1991.
THE STATES rose at 12.05 p.m.
R .S . G R A Y G r e f fi er of the States.