States Minutes 13th April 1993

STATES MINUTES 1 3 t h A  p ri l 1993

T HE STATES assembled on Tuesday,  1 3th April 1993 at 9.30 a.m. under

t h e Presidency of the Bailiff ,

S i r P eter Crill, C.B.E.

_ _ _ _ _ _ ______

His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor,  Air Marshal Sir John Sutton, K.C.B.,

w a s p r e sent.

_ _ _ _ _ _ ______

All Members were present with the exception of -

S enator Richard Joseph Shenton - out of the I sland.

S enator Bernard Thomas Binnington - out of t he Island.

I ris Medora Le Feuvre, Connétable of St.

L awrence - out of the Island.

J ohn Le Gallais, Deputy of St. Saviour -

o ut of the Island.

M argaret Sylvia Rose Beadle, Deputy of St. B relade - ill.

T erence Ahier Jehan , Deputy of St. Martin -

o ut of the Island.

M argaret Anne Le Geyt, Deputy of St.

S aviour - out of the Island.

F rank Harris on Walker , Deputy of St.

H elier - out of the Island.

D avid Leon Crespel, Deputy of St. Helier -

o ut of the Island.

_ _ _ _ _ _ ______

P r a y e rs

_ _ _ _ _ _ ______

Subordinate legislation tabled

The following enactments were laid before the States, namely -

 1 .  Italian Food Fair (Jersey) Order 1 9 9 3. R & O 8531.

 2 .  Social Security (Classification)

( A m endment No. 2) (Jersey) Order 1993. R & O 8532.

 3 .  Health Insurance (Pharmaceutical B e n efit List) (Amendment No. 14) ( J er sey) Order 1993. R & O 8533.

Prison Board: report for 1992. R.C.14/93

The Prison Board, by Act dated 26th March 1993, presented to the States its annual report for

1992.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.

Ecology Fund: report for 1992. R.C.15/93

The Island Development Committee, by Act dated 1st April 1993, presented to the States the

annual report of the Ecology Fund report for 1992.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.

Springfield, St. Helier - petition (P.110/91): report. P.51/93

The Island Development Committee, by Act dated 8th April 1993, presented to the States a report

on the petition regarding Springfield, St.

Helier.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.

Springfield, St. Helier - rezoning (P.41/93): report. P.52/93

The Island Development Committee, by Act dated 8th April 1993, presented to the States a report

on the rezoning of Springfield, St. Helier.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed.

Matters noted - land transactions

THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 5th April 1993, showing that in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land, the Committee had approved -

 ( a) as recommended by the Public

H  ea lth Committee, the renewal of the

l e as e from Mr. Robert George Day and M  r s. June Day, née Le Sueur, of the

f o u r-bedroomed property Les

H  ir ondelles, Rue de l'Est, St. Helier ,

f o r a period of one year from 23rd

M  a rch 1993, at an annual rent of

£1 1 ,400;

 ( b) as recommended by the Public

H  ea lth Committee, the renewal of the

l e as e from Mr. Robert Dodsworth Alton

o f t he four-bedroomed property, 25 West

P a r k Avenue, St. Helier, for a period

o f o ne year from 1st April 1993, at an

a n n ual rent of £9,696.45;

 ( c) as recommended by the Housing

C o m mittee, the granting of a wayleave, f re e of charge, to the Jersey New

W  a terworks Company Limited for the e x te nsion of the water main at Sidney

C r i ll Park, St. Clement, to serve the

p r o perty Le Rêve', with each side

b e in g responsible for the payment of

i ts o wn legal costs;

 ( d) as recommended by the Housing

C o m mittee, the extension of the lease t o M r. Paul Francis Clubb of La Vielle C h a ppelle, St. Martin from 25th

D ec ember 1992 to 24th June 1993 at a w ee kly rent of £75;

 ( e) as recommended by the Housing

C o m mittee, the granting of the right to

M  r . Alan Michael Pickup and Mrs. Maria J a y ne Pickup, née Machon, to connect to t h e main foul sewerage system via a

c o n nexion under Clos Saut Falluet, St.

B r e lade, for a consideration of £2,000

a n d the payment of all legal costs.

Matters lodged

The following subjects were lodged au Greffe'' -

 1 .  Elizabeth and Mont Orgueil

C a s tles: transfer of management to J e rs ey Heritage Trust. P.45/93.

P r e sented by the Public Services

C o m mittee.

 2 .  Draft Family Nursing Services

a n d Jersey Home Helps (Amalgamation) ( J er sey) Law 199 . P.46/93.

P r e sented by the Public Health

C o m mittee.

 3 .  Animals (Trapping) (Jersey) Law 1 9 6 1: petition. P.47/93.

P r e sented by Senator N.L.

Q  u érée.

4 . Constitution of the States -

S p e cial Committee (P.34/93): amendment. P . 4 8/93.

P r e sented by Deputy H.

H  . Baudains of St. Clement.

 5 .  Welfare benefits for unemployed p e r sons. P.49/93.

P r e sented by Deputy M.C. Buesnel

o f S t. Helier.

 6 .  Surgical and medical treatment

i n t he United Kingdom: fund. P.50/93. P r e sented by Deputy S.M.

B a u dains of St. Helier .

The following subject was lodged au Greffe'' on 2nd April 1993 -

M aternity entitlement in employment: c ode of good practice. P.44/93.

P resented by Senator C. Stein.

Arrangement of Public Business for the present Sitting

THE STATES agreed that the draft Motor Traffic (Third-Party Insurance) (Amendment No. 8) (Jersey) Law 199 (P.28/93 - lodged 2nd March 1993) and amendments (P.40/93 and P.43/93 - lodged on 30th March 1993) be considered as the first item of Public Business at today's

Sitting.

THE STATES agreed that the proposition regarding the rezoning of Springfield for sporting,

leisure, recreational and community purposes (P.41/93 - lodged 30th March 1993) be considered as the second item of Public Business at today's Sitting.

Draft Criminal Justice (Standard Scale of Fines) (Jersey) Law 199 . P.132/92

THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Legislation Committee that consideration of the draft Criminal Justice (Standard Scale of Fines) (Jersey) Law 199 (lodged on 1st September 1992) be deferred from the present Sitting to a later date.

Arrangement of Public Business for the next Sitting on 27th April 1993

THE STATES confirmed that the following subjects lodged au Greffe'' should be considered at the

next Sitting on 27th April 1993 -

 1 .  Traffic and transport policy. P.33/93. P r e sented: 16th March 1993.

P o l icy and Resources Committee.

( C o mmittee of the Whole

H  o use)

 2 .  Elizabeth and Mont Orgueil Castles: t ra n sfer of management to Jersey

H  er itage Trust. P.45/93.

P u b lic Services Committee.

 3 .  Draft Family Nursing Services and J e rs ey Home Helps (Amalgamation) ( J er sey) Law 199 . P.46/93.

P u b lic Health

C o m mittee.

Animals (Trapping) (Jersey) Law 1961: petition. P.47/93

Senator N.L. Quérée presented to the States a petition of Mrs. Murphy, Director, Jersey Animal Aid, Mr. Blampied, President, J.S.P.C.A., and Mrs. Crone, President, Jersey Feline Friends, asking the States to grant the prayer of the petition, that Article 7 of the Animals

(Trapping) (Jersey) Law 1961 be amended so that a person guilty of an offence shall be liable to

a fine not exceeding £500 or, if he has previously been convicted of such an offence, to a fine not exceeding £1,000; and that because your petitioners' concern is for the welfare of animals rather than simply the punishment of offenders -

t he Agriculture and Fisheries Committee be r equested -

( i) provide information leaflets

e x p laining the law, with appropriate t ra n slations, which would be freely a v a ilable;

( ii ) to put up signs, at places and at

ti m e s t hat trapping may be carried

o u t, t o ensure that those involved

ar e m a de aware of all the

p ro v i s ions of the law;

t he Connétable s be requested to assist with t he distribution of information within

t heir parishes;

t he Agriculture and Fisheries Committee c onsider, with the relevant authorities,

w hether an amnesty to allow the surrender

o f illegal traps would be worthwhile and, i f so, make a request to the Attorney

G eneral.

THE STATES referred the said petition to the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee and lodged the proposition au Greffe''.

Work permit legislation. Questions and answers. (Tape No. 181)

Deputy Maurice Clement Buesnel of St. Helier asked Deputy Michael Adam Wavell of St. Helier, President of the Defence Committee, the following questions -

1.  A t the last sitting of the States

th e P re sident of the Social

S e cu r i ty Committee, in reply to a

q u es t io n tabled by Deputy D.L.

C r es p e l, said that during a survey

o f tw  o weeks in March this year

h is d e p artment had registered 132

p er s o n s as taking up employment in th e Is l and. The President further

in d i c at ed that of the 132 persons

sp o k e n of, 87 were in Jersey for

th e fi rs t time, while the other

4 5 w  er e persons returning to

Je r s e y . The majority of these were jo b s w  hich could have been filled b y l o c al unemployed persons.

D  o es the President share my concern t h at local unemployed people are still b e in g passed over for employment in f a v our of newcomers to the Island?

 2 .  In view of the foregoing, and

J e rs ey's continuing unemployment

p r o blem, what further steps have you a n d your Committee taken either -

( a ) to introduce the work permit

le g i sl a tion that your Committee

w a s c h arged, as the responsible

C o m m  ittee under the Protection of E m p l o yment Opportunities (Jersey) L a w 1 988, to bring to the States

fo r f i n al approval? or

( b ) to proceed with the debate of

y o u r C ommittee's proposition

(P . 1 7 9 /92) regarding the revision

o f c u rr ent legislation?

 3 .  Why has your Committee taken so long t o t ake the necessary steps to resolve

t h e problems especially as the

I m m igration Department for which you

h a v e responsibility is aware of the

v e r y relaxed procedures which now allow u n l imited numbers of continental E.C.

n a ti onals to seek work in the Island?

 4 .  Would you agree that your Committee, e x c ept for its responsibilities with

r e g ard to immigration control is not

r e al ly the suitable body to administer

t h is important legislation, and will

y o u therefore actively seek to transfer

t h is function to another Committee?''

The President of the Defence Committee replied as follows -

1.  Y es, of course I share the

D e p u ty 's concern that some

em  p l o yers in the Island are

o ff e ri n g employment to persons new

to th e Island when it would appear

th a t m  any of the jobs concerned

co u l d have been filled by local

u n em  p loyed persons. I understand th a t t h e Social Security Committee is a c t iv ely investigating this

m a t te r .

2 . and 3.

T h e Deputy should be aware of the

s e q uence of events since my Committee

l o d ged Projet P.179/92 on 17th November 1 9 9 2.

A  t the States meeting on 8th December

1 9 9 2 I indicated that I had agreed to

d e f er the debate on the Projet because

t h e Policy and Resources Committee had

a g r eed with the Finance and Economics

C o m mittee that the Regulation of

U  n dertakings and Development Law should b e a pplied in such a way as to

e n c ourage the creation of additional

j o b s and to protect the position of

l o ca l residents taking up employment. I

i n d icated to the House that it seemed

t o m e sensible that the proposed

a m e ndments to the Regulation of

U  n dertakings and Development Law should b e d ebated first and that if they were

c o n sidered sufficient to achieve the

n e c essary protection of the local

l a bo ur force there would be no need to

p r o ceed further with draft work permit

l e gi slation.

T h e Finance and Economics Committee d u l y proposed that the Regulation of

U  n dertakings and Development Law be a m e nded in its application so that a

l ic e nce to take on additional staff is

n o t required if a person has

r e si dential qualifications or has been

i n t he Island for more than five years,

a n d this proposal was adopted by the

S t a tes on 2nd February 1993. The Policy a n d Resources Committee subsequently a s k ed the Finance and Economics

C o m mittee to consider whether the

R e g ulation of Undertakings and

D  ev elopment Law could be used to give a n y further protection to the local

l a bo ur force.

T h e President of the Policy and

R e s ources Committee in answering

q u e stions posed to him by the Deputy on t h e 2nd March stated that the

p o s sibilities in this respect were to

b e e valuated at the next meeting of his C o m mittee following which discussions w o uld be held with myself on what, if

a n y , further action my Committee needs t o t ake in respect of the Protection of

E m  ployment Opportunities Legislation.

I u n derstand that the Finance and

E c o nomics Committee is of the view that i t is not practical for the Regulation

o f U ndertakings and Development Law to b e u sed to give further protection to

t h e local labour force, and I am to

h a v e discussions with the Policy and

R e s ources Committee on the further

a c ti on required in respect of the

P r o tection of Employment Opportunities L e g islation at the meeting of that

C o m mittee on Tuesday 20th April.

F o l lowing that meeting I will report to

t h e States on the action my Committee

p r o poses to take.

 4 .  The States at their meeting on the 28th

J u ly 1992 in approving in principle the

P o l icy and Resources Committee's report d a te d 5th May 1992 regarding the

i m p lementation of the Protection of

E m  ployment Opportunities (Jersey) Law 1 9 8 8 charged the Defence Committee to p r e pare the necessary legislation on

t h e basis of the guidelines in that

C o m mittee's report. If the Deputy feels

t h at another Committee should be

r e sp onsible for that legislation it is

o p e n to him to bring a proposition to

t h e House.''

Dumping of potatoes. Questions and answers. (Tape No. 181)

Deputy Derek Ryder Maltwood of St. Mary asked Senator John Stephen Rothwell, President of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee, the following questions -

1.  N ow that the potato season has

st a rt e d , will the President

ex p l a in what provisions his

C o m m  ittee has made for the

d is p o s al of any substantial

su r p l u s produce should this arise ag a i n t his year or in subsequent y ea r s ?

 2 .  In the light of past experience will

t h e President confirm that the dumping

o r b urying of potatoes on land are not

o p t ions being considered?''

The President of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee replied as follows -

1.  D espite the willingness of the

P u b li c Services Committee to

  a s s u me responsibility for the

d is p o s ing of agricultural waste

th e y ar e unable to accept surplus

p ro d u c e (should the situation

ar i se ) until the Island

D e v e lo pment Committee approves a si te f o r this purpose. I cannot

st r es s how urgent this need is and

o ff ic e r s from both the Public

S e rv i c es Department and my own

d ep a r t ment have identified many

si te s , n one of which appear to be

ac c e p t able to the Island

D e v e lo pment Committee.

T h e re could be two forms of surplus' p o t atoes this year -

( a ) oversize potatoes - growers will si m p l y take these back from the

p ac k i n g operation to use as

s e e d ', or if they are too

im  m a t ure or otherwise unsuitable, h o ld th ese relatively small

q u an t i ties on their own holdings. N a tu r a lly it is not the industry's

in t e n ti on to produce oversize

p o ta t o es;

( b ) surplus crop in total - growers

w i ll h a ve to lift and hold these

o n t h e ir own holdings until such

ti m e a s a central depot or depots

ar e av a ilable. Naturally this will

p re s e n t a considerable blight risk b u t g ro wers and department's staff w i ll m  onitor these sites until

su c h ti me as the Public Services

D e p a rt ment can accept the

m a t er i al. This the Committee

b el i ev e s is the correct policy and

u n d er no circumstances should the p o ta t o es be left in the ground

al l o w i ng a build up of both pests

an d d i seases.

I n a ddition there is the packing

s ta t ion waste - soil, diseased, cut and g r e en potatoes which are graded out. T h i s is essentially dry material and w il l be deposited as in previous years a t a private site.

 2 .  I cannot confirm the dumping of

p o t atoes will not take place; as if the P u b lic Services Committee finds a

s u it able site for dealing with a crop

s u r plus this is undoubtedly the best

s o lu tion. I can confirm however, that i n l ight of the Public Services

C o m mittee's willingness to deal with t h e matter the Agriculture and

F i s heries Committee will itself not be a r ra nging for any dumping sites but

w  il l make every effort to secure the

d i st ribution of any surplus potatoes to a i d agencies on the same basis as last y e a r.

I n c onclusion, I must stress that I

f in d the situation totally intolerable

w  h ere the Island Development Committee a c ti vely finds sites for schools and

h o u ses but that in its Act of 26th

M  a rch 1992 regret that staff resources

w  o uld not enable identification work to

b e u ndertaken but the Committee would b e i n a position to consider any

f u rt her proposals that were to be put

f o rw ard.' I believe, as I have told the

H  o use before, the finding of a site is

a m  atter of urgency and should be

t re a ted as such.''

Serving of summonses. Question and answer. (Tape No. 181)

Deputy Stuart Syvret of St. Helier asked Deputy Robin Ernest Richard Rumboll of St. Helier , President of the Legislation Committee the following question -

  It has been drawn to my attention that

 s ummonses for attendance both in the Petty  D ebts Court and the Royal Court can be

 f orwarded to the defendant through the

 r egular postal system, with the result that

 n one of the parties concerned can be

 a ssured of either attendance or defence on  t he due date. Would not a system whereby

a ll summonses are placed in the hands of t he named recipient be far more

s atisfactory?''

The President of the Legislation Committee replied as follows -

  The procedures relating to the Service of

 D ocuments are set out in Part V of the

 R oyal Court Rules of 1992 and the Petty

 D ebts Court (Jersey) Rules 1992. The Rules

 s pecify certain circumstances where

 p ersonal service through the intermediary

o f the Viscount's Department is required.

 I n cases where ordinary service is

 r equired, the Rules provide that service is

 e ffected by leaving it at the proper

 a ddress of the person to be served or by

 p ost or in such other manner as the Court

m ay direct. A system whereby all summonses f or attendance both in the Petty Debts

 C ourt and the Royal Court should be

 d elivered personally in the hands of the

 n amed recipient would in my opinion be

 v irtually unworkable, would incur

 s ubstantial costs often in excess of the

 s ubject matter, and would significantly

 d elay the normal legal processes. It must

 s urely be in the interest of all parties

 t hat costs of litigation be kept to a

m inimum.

T he Rules require that a record of service

o f the summons shall be maintained, giving d etails of persons by whom, the means by w hich, the place at which, and the day on w hich service was effected. Where the

d ocument is sent by post, the day on which t he document was posted must be stated.

I n the limited cases where a person fails t o attend Court and who is able to prove t hat he has not received the appropriate s ummons, he may, by submitting an

a ppropriate sworn affidavit, apply to the C ourts to have a default judgment set

a side.

I n my opinion, adequate safeguards

a re incorporated in the procedures for

s ervice of documents contained in the Royal C ourt and Petty Debt Court Rules and I can s ee no reason for altering these well-

e stablished procedures.''

Investor protection. Questions and answers. (Tape No. 181)

Deputy Stuart Syvret of St. Helier asked Senator Pierre François Horsfall, President of the

Finance and Economics Committee, the following questions -

1.  C an the President explain more fu l ly th e satisfactory conclusion

w h i ch was reached in the case he re f e rr e d to recently in the States

co n c e r ning the exorbitant

co m  m  issions taken in the name of L A U  T RO?

 2 .  Can we be assured that matters relating t o t he credibility of persons

e s ta blishing companies are adequately

r e se arched prior to the establishment

o f s uch companies or directorships,

e s p ecially in the finance sector. May

w  e now be made aware of the procedures w  h ich are officially undertaken for our

p r o tection?''

The President of the Finance and Economics Committee replied as follows -

1.  T he Deputy may be referring to my

re s p o n se to supplementary

q u es t io ns put to me by him during

a m  ee t ing of this House on 2nd

M a r c h 1993. In those responses I

d id n o t state that a satisfactory

co n c l u sion' had been reached in

an y p a rticular case nor did I make

re f e re n ce to exorbitant

co m  m  issions'. This has been

co n f i rm ed from the tape records.

T h e Deputy mentions LAUTRO - the Life A ss urance and Unit Trust Regulatory

O rg anisation - in the context of

c o m missions. My present understanding

i s th at LAUTRO's members mainly

c o m prise life assurance companies,

f ri e ndly societies and operators of

c o ll ective investment schemes. I also

u n d erstand that LAUTRO restricts the

s iz e of various commissions, for

i n st ance on life assurance products,

p a y able by its members to financial

a d v isers. I cannot therefore understand

t h e Deputy 's reference to exorbitant

c ommissions taken in the name of

L A  UTRO' as I would assume that LAUTRO's p e r mitted commissions payable to

f in a ncial advisers would be reasonable.

I n t hat regard I have to remind the

D  ep uty that LAUTRO is a self-regulating

o r g anisation in the United Kingdom and

n o t in Jersey. It does not have any

J e rs ey-based members and there is no

s p e cial reason why I should have a

k n o wledge of the details of its inner

w  o rkings.

W  e re exorbitant commissions to have

b e e n taken by any Jersey firm claiming

t h em nevertheless to have been LAUTRO b a s ed I would suggest that the matter

m  ay be one for the persons involved to

s e e k legal advice.

 2 .  I find it difficult to answer this

q u e stion as it confuses different

m at ters - for instance companies are

l in k ed with directorships and controls

o v e r the incorporation of companies are

l in k ed with public protection matters.

T h e question is also partly a

r e p etition of one asked on 2nd March

1 9 9 3. However for the sake of

c o m pleteness I shall reiterate part of

t h e answer supplied on that occasion.

D  ep ositors and investors have

p r o tection under various statutes like

t h e Banking Business (Jersey) Law 1991, t h e Collective Investment Funds

( J er sey) Law 1988 and the Companies

( J er sey) Law 1991.

U n der the Banking Business (Jersey) Law 1 9 9 1 protection to depositors is

p r o vided in a number of ways -

( i) banks registered in Jersey under th e la w are all associated with

b an k s of international stature in th e i r h ome country which are

su b j e c t in those countries to

b an k i n g supervision on a

co n s o l idated basis;

( ii ) all registered banks are closely

su p e r v ised with detailed

in f o rm  ation provided to the

F in a n c ial Services Department on a q u ar t e rly basis;

( ii i)  all banks have to re-apply for

th e i r re gistration on an annual

b as i s a nd the Finance and

E c o n o mics Committee has power to im  p o se conditions on a

re g i st r ation or to revoke a

re g i st r ation;

( iv ) the Committee has power to carry

o u t sp e cial investigations on any

b an k r egistered under the law;

( v ) all new controllers, directors and

m  an agers have to be approved to ensure t h at they are fit and proper' to carry

o u t their duties.

A ls o, under the Collective Investment F u n ds (Jersey) Law 1988 protection to i n v estors in such funds is provided at v a r ious levels -

( 1 ) the department exercises control

o v er th e promoters' fitness and

p ro p e r ness and applies the same te s ts to the actual scheme itself.

It a l s o determines whether or not th e sc h eme is commensurate with th e ty p e of investor envisaged;

( 2 ) once a scheme has been approved it is b a c k ed up with compliance

v is it s f rom officers of the

F in a n c ial Services Department;

( 3 ) any changes to a scheme are also c l os ely examined to ensure that the

i n te rests of investors are not harmed;

( 4 ) if there is any concern regarding th e in t egrity of the scheme, then th e la w gives the Committee the p o w e r to carry out inspections;

( 5 ) as a last resort the law enables

th e C o mmittee to take over or shut d o w n any scheme.

N ew legislation is in the process of b e in g developed to supervise those c a rr ying on trust business, company a d m inistration business, investment b u s iness and insurance services

b u s iness. It is intended that this be p u t forward for debate in the States l a te r this year.

I n t he meantime a measure of control

c o n tinues to exist through the

o p e ration of the Regulation of

U  n dertakings and Development Law. In g r a nting or refusing licences to

p e r sons wishing to commence new

u n d ertakings the Finance and Economics C o m mittee is empowered to have regard to the need to protect the commercial

a n d financial integrity of the Island

a n d uses this power to scrutinise

p r o posals for the establishment of new

f in a ncial services businesses.

W  it h regard to controls over the

i n co rporation of companies in the

I s la nd, the relevant legislation is the

C o n trol of Borrowing (Jersey) Order

1 9 5 8 and the Companies (Jersey) Law

1 9 9 1. In particular, under the former,

t h e consent of the Finance and

E c o nomics Committee is required to the i ss u e of shares by any newly-

i n co rporated Jersey company and consent i s o nly given after the completion of a

d e ta iled application and the scrutiny

o f t hat application by the Financial

S e r vices Department. The application

f o rm requires disclosure of the

u l ti mate beneficial ownership of the

c o m pany and its principal objects and

c o n tains a declaration regarding the

n o n -involvement of the beneficial

o w  ners in insolvent businesses. The

a p p lication is signed by an Advocate or S o l icitor of the Royal Court or by a

c h a rtered or certified accountant who

i s a principal in a Jersey based

a c c ountancy partnership.

I f th e Deputy would find it helpful I s u g gest that he may wish to make

c o n tact with the Director of the

F i n ancial Services Department in

c o n nexion with these matters.''

Regulation 1(1)(k) of the Housing (General Provisions) (Jersey) Regulations 1970, as amended. Questions and answers. (Tape No. 181)

Deputy Stuart Syvret of St. Helier asked Deputy Leonard Norman of St. Clement , President of the Housing Committee, the following questions -

1.  I understand that spouses or ex-

sp o u s e s of 1(1)(k)'s do not

q u al i fy under any category of the H o u s in g Regulations even if they

o w n p roperty in their own right

an d s u bsequently marry someone w i th a n (a)-(h) qualification. Is

th i s c o rrect, and would the

P re s i d ent care to explain a

su g g e s tion made by one of his

o ff ic e r s that 50 per cent of the

p ro p e r ty is handed to the current h u sb a n d to gain a qualification?

 2 .  It is becoming increasingly apparent

t h at wives or ex-wives in a 1(1)(k)

s ta t us situation have no assets

a t tr ibuted to them by the Housing

C o m mittee even though properties, bank a c c ounts and businesses both past and

p r e sent may be jointly owned and worked f o r. Does this mean that women in all

c a te gories in Jersey are still

c o n sidered to be the chattels of men

a n d have no financial status of their

o w  n regardless of the fact that they

o w  n at least 50 per cent of all

a s s ets?''

The President of the Housing Committee replied as follows -

1.  T he first part of this question is

a s ta t e ment which I consider needs so m  e c larification. Under the

H o u s in g Regulations, the spouses

o f p e rs ons who have been granted

co n s e n ts under Regulation

1 (1 ) ( g ) - hardship; 1(1)(j) -

es s e n ti al employment and 1(1)(k) - so c i a l or economic grounds - are

en t i tl e d to buy property jointly

w i th th eir partners.

T h e nceforth, they are legally entitled t o r eside in property which they own j o in tly with their spouses.

H  o wever, an unqualified spouse has no a u to matic right under the Regulations

t o m ake further property transactions

i n h is or her own name, unless it is

j o in tly with his or her spouse.

I n t he event of a marriage breakdown or d e a th of qualified partner, the

u n q ualified spouse is entitled to

re s ide in the property he or she owned a n d occupied jointly with the partner. I f a n alternative transaction is

r e q uested, then the spouse in question i s r equired to apply to my Committee u n d er Regulation 1(1)(g) - hardship.

I n t he event of the ex-spouse of a

1 ( 1 )(k) resident marrying a person

q u a lifying under one of the Regulations 1 ( 1 )(a) to 1(1)(h), as posed in the

D  ep uty's statement, the former is

l e ga lly entitled to own and occupy

p r o perty jointly with his or her new

s p o use. Whether the couple wish to own p r o perty jointly is obviously a matter

f o r them to decide.

T h e question posed in the second part

o f t his first question includes a most

p e c uliar form of words and clearly are

t h e Deputy 's, not those of an officer

o f m y Department. What my Department w il l advise the ex-spouse of somebody

q u a lifying under Regulation 1(1)(g),

( j) o r (k) is that he or she marries

s o m ebody qualifying under Regulation 1 ( 1 )(a)-(h), he or she may own and

t h er efore occupy property jointly with

t h e new spouse.

 2 .  The first part of this second question

i s a gain a statement and if I may

r e sp ectfully say so, a sweeping

s ta t ement. I do not have the evidence

w  h ich leads the Deputy to talk of a

s it u ation which is becoming

in c reasingly apparent'. He clearly has

a p a rticular case in mind and yet has

m  ad e no attempt to discuss it with

e i th er my Department, my Committee or m  y self. Under the circumstances I find

i t v ery difficult to understand what he

i s g etting at, let alone help him and

t h e House with an explanation.

T h e question posed in the second part

o f h is question is a nonsense and if it

w  er e not for the fact that I do not

w  is h to be disrespectful to the House,

I s h ould treat it with the contempt it

d e s erves by not answering it. If the

D ep uty were to read the Regulations, my C o m mittee's consultative paper issued

i n 1 992 and our report and proposition

d e b ated on 16th February of this year,

h e w ould see that the Regulations do

n o t distinguish between men and women. T h e y refer to spouses only and apply to

t h e various categories of resident

r egardless of sex. The simple answer to

t h e question is obviously no'.''

Salvaging hardcore on the reclamation site west of the Albert Pier. Questions and answers. (Tape No. 181)

Senator Nigel Lewis Quérée asked Deputy Richard Peter Clarke-Halifax of St. Saviour , Vice- President of the Public Services Committee, the following questions -

1.  S ince the autumn of last year, a

p ri v a te contractor has been

sa l v a g ing hardcore from dumped m a t er i al on a number of sites in th e Is l and and on the west of

A l b er t reclamation site.

W  o uld the President please inform the S t a tes, with regard to the operation on t h e west of Albert reclamation site

w  h at volume of material has been

s a lv aged during this time?

 2 .  What has the salvaged hardcore been u s e d for?

 3 .  What effect has this had on the

o p e ration of the reclamation site?

 4 .  What were the conclusions of the

r e p ort, commissioned by Public Services e a rl ier this year, which reviewed the

e f fe ct of this operation on the

r e cl amation site?

 5 .  How has the salvage operation affected t h e tipping life of the site?

 6 .  Why cannot the operation continue to w  o rk from the reclamation site?

 7 .  What conclusions has the Public

S e r vices Committee reached regarding t h e long term viability of this salvage

o p e ration?''

The Vice-President of the Public Services Committee replied as follows -

1.  T he volume of material recycled

si n c e t he operation began in

N o v e m ber 1992 to date is 6,810

cu b i c m etres or 10,218 tonnes. The to t a l a mount of incombustible

w a s te disposed of at west of

A l b er t in 1992 was approximately 2 0 0 ,0 0 0 cubic metres or 360,000

to n n e s so the recycling operation

re p r e se nts a very small proportion

o f th e amount going into the site.

 2 .  The contractor occupies the site free

o f c harge and has incombustible

m  at erial delivered directly to him. The

m  at erial has been used as a base core

i n T he Limes, it has been used in the

o l d harbour for bed lining and used by

s o m e local builders for small paved

a r ea s. The major contract for the old

h a r bour and The Limes used up a maximum

o f r ound about 2,500 tonnes a month and

t h e rate of recycled material going out

o f t he site has declined from a peak in

N  o vember down to small amounts in the

l a st two months thereby necessitating a

c o n siderable amount of stockpiling.

3 . and 4.

W  h ilst the operation has provided a

s e rv ice in reclaiming some material for r e cy cling there is no doubt that the

e x tr action of the stone has resulted in

t h e land where the residue of the

r e cy cling process has been tipped

b e c oming unstable because the porosity a n d drainage properties have been

s e ri ously affected.

W  e commissioned an independent engineer t o l ook at this and his conclusions

w  er e the same as ours. We stopped the

o p e ration immediately since we do not

w  an t any areas of the site to present

p r o blems in the future, which may

r e st rict the development and limit the

l o ad  -bearing characteristics of the

g r o und.

 5 .  During the five months of operation, t h e volume of recycled material has

r e d uced the annual infill volume by

a r o und eight per cent.

H  o wever, due to unpredicted demand p a tt erns and the fact that the material

d o e s not comply with British Standards t h e estimate of extension to the life

o f t he tip is between three to six

m  o nths.

 6 .  The contractor cannot continue to work

f ro m the reclamation site for two

r e as ons. We need all the space we can

g e t in 1993 because by September of

t h is year the site will be completely

f il le d to the superfill level and

s to c kpiling will then start. A need for