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STATES MINUTES 4 th M a r c h 1997 P ri c e : £ 1 . 2 5
T HE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 4 th March 1997 at 9.30 a.m. under
t h e Presidency of the Bailiff ,
S ir P hilip Bailhache
_ _ _ _ _ _ ______
His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor,
General Sir Michael Wilkes, K.C.B., C.B.E, w a s p r e sent.
_ _ _ _ _ _ ______
All members were present with the exception of -
S enator Richard Joseph Shenton - out of the
I sland
R obert Lester Le Brocq, Connétable of St.
H elier - out of the Island
D erek Ryder Maltwood, Deputy of St. Mary -
o ut of the Island
M argaret Ann Le Geyt, Deputy of St.
S aviour - out of the Island
Imogen Stephanie Nicholls, Deputy of
G rouville - out of the Island.
_ _ _ _ _ _ ______
P r a y e rs
_ _ _ _ _ _ ______
Royal Visit - Her Royal Highness the Princess Royal
The Bailiff informed the Assembly that Her Royal Highness The Princess Royal would open the Island Games on 28th June and on 30th June 1997 would open the new John Le Fondré Hall departures hall at the Airport.
Subordinate legislation tabled
The following enactments were laid before the
States, namely -
1 . Island Planning (Fees) (Jersey) O rd er 1997. R & O 9056.
2 . Building Bye-Laws (Jersey) 1997. R & O 9057.
3 . Reservoirs (Registers and
R e c ords) (Jersey) Order 1997. R & O 9058.
4 . Reservoirs (Certificates,
R e p orts and Prescribed Information) ( J er sey) Order 1997. R & O 9059.
5 . Road Traffic (Saint Helier)
( A m endment) (Jersey) Order 1997. R & O 9060.
6 . Airport Dues (Tariff) Order 1 9 9 7. R & O 9061.
Matters presented
The following matters were presented to the States -
1 . Births, marriages and deaths in 1 9 9 6: statement - R.C.12/97.
P r e sented by the Etat Civil
C o m mittee.
2 . States of Jersey Law 1966, as
a m e nded - delegation of functions: air t ra n sport permits - R.C.13/97.
P r e sented by the Jersey
T r a nsport Authority.
3 . States of Jersey Law 1966, as
a m e nded - delegation of functions: p u b lic finances administration -
R . C .14/97.
P r e sented by the Finance and
E c o nomics Committee.
4 . States of Jersey Law 1966, as
a m e nded - delegation of functions: c o n trol of sales and leases of
a g r icultural land, sea fisheries and s la u ghter of animals - R.C.15/97.
P r e sented by the Agriculture and
F i s heries Committee.
T HE STATES ordered that the said reports be
p rinted and distributed.
5 . Social Security Committee:
r e p ort and accounts 1995/96.
P r e sented by the Social Security C o m mittee.
6 . The Jersey Electricity Company
L i m ited: annual report and accounts for t h e period 2nd October 1995 to 29th
S e p tember 1996.
P r e sented by the Finance and
E c o nomics Committee.
Matter noted - land transaction
THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee, dated 24th February 1997, recording the following decision of the
Treasurer of the States under delegated powers,
in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land -
a s recommended by the Planning and
E nvironment Committee, the lease to Mr.
P eter Joseph Lamy of Field No. 87, La Route d es Quennevais, St. Brelade (measuring
4 .7 vergées), for a period of three years
f rom 1st July 1996, at an annual rent of £ 332.50 (representing a rate of £70 a v ergée), on the same terms and conditions
a s the previous lease, with the addition of
a clause allowing for the creation of a
t ourist cycle route, and on the basis that
e ach side would be responsible for its own
l egal costs arising from the transaction.
Matters lodged
The following matters were lodged au Greffe'' -
1 . Draft Police Court (Change of
N am e) (Jersey) Law 1996 (Appointed Day) A ct 199 - P.28/97.
P r e sented by the Legislation
C o m mittee.
2 . Draft Companies (Amendment
N o . 3) (Jersey) Law 199 - P.29/97. P r e sented by the Finance and
E c o nomics Committee.
3 . Fields 563, 565, 568 and part of
5 6 4 , St. Brelade : purchase - P.30/97. P r e sented by the Planning and
E n v ironment Committee.
4 . Bankruptcy (Désastre) (Amendment N o . 2) (Jersey) Law 1996 (Appointed D ay ) Act 199 - P.31/97.
P r e sented by the Finance and
E c o nomics Committee.
5 . Draft Regulation of Undertakings
a n d Development (Amendment No. 7) ( J er sey) Law 199 - P.32/97.
P r e sented by the Finance and
E c o nomics Committee.
6 . Draft Regulation of Undertakings
a n d Development (Amendment No. 8) ( J er sey) Regulations 199 - P.33/97.
P r e sented by Finance and
E c o nomics Committee.
7 . Waterfront Enterprise Board: m em bership - P.34/97.
P r e sented by the Policy and
R e s ources Committee.
8 . Jersey Amateur Dramatic Club: c o n solidated loan - P.35/97.
P r e sented by the Finance and
E c o nomics Committee.
9 . Greville Bathe Fund: appointment
o f t rustees - P.36/97.
P r e sented by the Finance and
E c o nomics Committee.
1 0. Draft Franchise (Amendment
N o . 4) (Jersey) Regulations 199 - P . 3 7/97.
P r e sented by the Legislation
C o m mittee.
1 1. Draft Sea Fisheries
( M iscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment N o . 2) (Jersey) Regulations
1 9 9 (P.174/96): amendment - P.38/97.
P r e sented by the Agriculture and
F i s heries Committee.
1 2. Transfer of administration of S t a tes properties - P.39/97.
P r e sented by the Planning and E n v ironment Committee.
1 3. Waterfront Enterprise Board: s h a re capital - P.40/97.
P r e sented by the Policy and
R e s ources Committee.
1 4. Draft Departments of the
J u d iciary and Legislation (Amendment N o . 3) (Jersey) Law 199 -
P . 4 1/97.
P r e sented by the Legislation
C o m mittee.
Greville Bathe Fund: appointment of trustee - P.19/97. Withdrawn
THE STATES noted that the President of the Finance and Economics Committee had withdrawn the proposition regarding the Greville Bathe
Fund: appointment of trustee (lodged au
Greffe'' on 18th February 1997) having lodged a revised report and proposition at the present meeting (P.36/97).
Arrangement of public business for the next meeting on 18th March 1997
THE STATES confirmed that the following matters lodged au Greffe'' would be considered at the
next meeting on 18th March 1997 -
B ellozanne Valley, St. Helier : policy for p urchase of properties - P.224/96.
L odged: 19th November 1996.
P lanning and Environment Committee.
J ersey Electricity Company Limited: a ppointment of directors - P.17/97. L odged: 18th February 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
J ersey New Waterworks Company L imited: appointment of directors - P .18/97.
L odged: 18th February 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
2 Verdun Mews, Mont Neron, St.
H elier: financial assistance - P.20/97. L odged: 18th February 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
B arge Aground, St. Ouen: purchase -
P .21/97.
L odged: 18th February 1997.
P lanning and Environment Committee.
J ersey Scout Association: financial a ssistance - P.22/97.
L odged: 18th February 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
D raft Building Bye-laws (Validation) ( Jersey) Law 199 -P.26/97.
L odged: 18th February 1997.
P lanning and Environment Committee.
D raft Island Planning (Fees)
( Validation) (Jersey) Law 199 - P.27/97. L odged: 18th February 1997.
P lanning and Environment Committee.
D raft Police Court (Change of Name)
( Jersey) Law 1996 (Appointed Day) Act 1 99 - P.28/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
L egislation Committee.
D raft Companies (Amendment No. 3) ( Jersey) Law 199 - P.29/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
F ields 563, 565, 568 and part of 564, S t. Brelade: purchase - P.30/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
P lanning and
E nvironment Committee.
B ankruptcy (Désastre) (Amendment
N o. 2) (Jersey) Law 1996 (Appointed Day) A ct 199 - P.31/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
D raft Regulation of Undertakings and
D evelopment (Amendment No. 7) (Jersey) Law 1 99 - P.32/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
D raft Regulation of Undertakings and
D evelopment (Amendment No. 18) (Jersey) R egulations 199 - P.33/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
W aterfront Enterprise Board:
m embership - P.34/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
P olicy and Resources Committee.
W aterfront Enterprise Board:
s hare capital - P.40/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
P olicy and Resources Committee.
J ersey Amateur Dramatic Club:
c onsolidated loan - P.35/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
G reville Bathe Fund: appointment of t rustees - P.36/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
F inance and Economics Committee.
D raft Franchise (Amendment No. 4) ( Jersey) Regulations 199 - P.37/97. L egislation Committee.
D raft Sea Fisheries (Miscellaneous
P rovisions) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) R egulations 199 - P.174/96.
L odged: 22nd October 1996.
A griculture and Fisheries Committee.
D raft Sea Fisheries (Miscellaneous
P rovisions) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) R egulations 199 (P.174/96): amendment - P .38/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
A griculture and Fisheries Committee.
T ransfer of Administration of States
p roperties - P.39/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
P lanning and Environment Committee.
F lorence Boot Cottages Trust: sale of l and - P.5/97.
L odged: 21st January 1997.
H ousing Committee.
D raft Departments of the Judiciary
a nd Legislature (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) L aw 199 - P.41/97.
L odged: 4th March 1997.
L egislation Committee.
Matter of Privilege - Bailiff 's statement The Bailiff made a statement regarding the nature of parliamentary privilege and on the procedures for the present meeting as follows -
Members will recall that on 18th
F ebruary Senator Walker sought to raise as
a matter affecting the privileges of the
S tates, the position of Senator Syvret.
S ome members have raised with me questions a s to the meaning of privilege and as to
t he procedure to be followed, and I think
i t may be helpful if I say a few words by
w ay of introductions. There appears to be
n o local precedent to guide the House in
t his situation and I have therefore
c onsidered the practice followed both in
the House of Commons and in parliaments of t he Commonwealth, particularly in Canada.
T he word privileges' is used in a
t echnical sense. These are not privileges
i ntended to create special advantage or
t reatment for its own sake. The privileges
o f the House and of members of the House
a re intended to enable the States to
d ischarge its public mandate and to do its
j ob in the most effective manner without
h indrance.
T he privilege in question here is the
f reedom which members have of saying what t hey wish to say in this Chamber with
i mmunity from any legal process, subject
o nly to the rules which members have
t hemselves laid down. The privilege amounts t o the expectation therefore that all
m embers will conform to the Standing
O rders, which are the rules which the
S tates have laid down to govern their
p roceedings and to protect those both
i nside and outside the House from abuse of
t he freedom to say what they will.
T he States are sitting in effect in a
d isciplinary capacity this morning to
c onsider the matters set out in Senator
W alker's report and to decide, if they
c onsider that there has been a breach of
p rivilege, what if anything they wish to do a bout it.
T he suspension imposed on Senator Syvret on 3 rd September 1996, was lifted by the
S tates a fortnight ago for the purpose of
a llowing him to address the States in
r esponse to the report presented to the
S tates this day by Senator Walker '.
I propose therefore first of all to invite
S enator Walker to speak briefly to his
r eport. I appreciate that he has already
d one so, but Senator Syvret was not present
o n that occasion and I think that he should h ave the opportunity of hearing Senator
W alker. I shall then ask Senator Syvret to
a ddress the House in response to Senator W alker's report. If, at the end of that
a ddress, members consider that there is any a mbiguity in what Senator Syvret has said I s hall obviously allow members, as is
c ustomary, to seek clarification of any
s uch ambiguity. What I cannot do is allow a ny general questioning of Senator Syvret
t o take place.
A t the end of Senator Syvret's address, and
i n accordance with the practice which is
f ollowed in the House of Commons when an a lleged breach of privilege of this kind is
b eing considered, I shall direct Senator
S yvret to withdraw from the precincts.
M y understanding is that Senator Walker
w ill then move that the House adjourn and
w ill, when the House returns, move a
p roposition in accordance with Standing
O rder 15. Members may have other questions a bout the procedure to be followed in that
d ebate, and as to the moving of amendments, b ut I think that such questions can more
c onveniently be dealt with when the
a djournment is moved.''
Matter of privilege
The Bailiff requested the Viscount to invite Senator Stuart Syvret into the House.
At the request of the Bailiff , Senator Frank Harris on Walker spoke to his report Suspension of Senator S. Syvret: matter of privilege'' (R.C.11/97), and Senator Syvret responded.
The Bailiff , having asked whether there were any ambiguities which members wished to explore with Senator Syvret, and having received no response, directed Senator Syvret to withdraw.
THE STATES then adjourned until 12 noon.
THE STATES reassembled, Senator Walker then moved a proposition, in accordance with Standing
Order No. 15.
THE STATES then adjourned to give members time to consider the proposition and consider
possible amendments.
THE STATES reassembled at 2.30 p.m.
THE STATES, after further discussion, adopted the proposition of Senator Frank Harris on Walker , and -
( a) referred to their Act dated 3rd
S e p tember 1996, suspending Senator
S t u art Syvret from the service of the
S t a tes and to the matter of privilege
ra i sed by Senator Frank Harris on Walker
o n 18th February 1997, the details of
w h ich were set out in a report
( R . C.11/97) presented to the States by
S e n ator Walker that day; and
( b) (i) censured Senator Syvret for his fa i lu r e to accept the binding
au t h o r ity of the Standing Orders
o f th e States and for the remarks
m a d e i n his statement to the
S ta t e s this day in response to the re p o r t;
( ii ) resolved to lift the suspension of S e n at o r Syvret from the service of th e S ta tes with effect from the
en d o f the present States'
m e e ti n g.
Members present voted as follows -
P o u r'' (45) Senators
H orsfall, Rothwell, Le Maistre, Stein,
Q uérée, Bailhache , Tomes, Norman, Walker , K innard.
Connétable s
S t. Clement, St. Lawrence, St. Mary, St. B relade, St. Peter, Grouville , St. Saviour, S t. Martin, St. Ouen, St. John, Trinity .
Deputies
W avell(S), H. Baudains(C), Le Sueur(H),
C outanche(L), S. Baudains(H), Trinity ,
P ullin(S), Duhamel(S), Routier(H),
D orey(H), Layzell(B), Breckon(S), Huet(H), S t. Martin, St. John, Le Main(H),
B lampied(H), Rabet(H), Vibert (B), de la
H aye(B), Le Cornu(C), St. Peter , Dubras(L), S t. Ouen.
C o n tre'' (2) Deputies
J ohns(H), Crowcroft (H). THE STATES rose at 2.58 p.m.
G .H .C . C O P P O C K G re f fi e r o f the States.