States Minutes 2nd February 1999

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 2nd February 1999 at 9.30 a.m. under the Presidency of the Bailiff ,

Sir Philip Bailhache ____________

All members were present with the exception of –

S e n at or John Stephen Rothwell – ill

M a l c olm Pollard, Connétable of St.  Peter – ill

Ja m  e s Thomas Johns, Deputy of St.  Helier – out of the Island

____________

Prayers read by the Bailiff ____________

HRH The Princess Royal – visit

The Bailiff informed the Assembly of the forthcoming visit of Her Royal Highness The Princess Royal on 6th and 7th May 1999.

Subordinate legislation tabled

The following enactments were laid before the States, namely –

  Is l a n d P  lanning (Tree Preservation) (Saint Helier) (Jersey) Order 1999. R & O 9348.

  Is l a n d P  lanning (Tree Preservation) (Saint Peter) (Jersey) Order 1999. R & O 9349.

  Is l a n d P  lanning (Tree Preservation) (Saint Saviour) (Jersey) Order 1999. R & O 9350.

  B a nki   ng  Business (General Provisions) (Amendment No.  4) (Jersey) Order 1999. R & O 9351.   P o s t O f fice (General Provisions) (Amendment No.  42) (Jersey) Order 1999. R & O 9352.

  R o a d a nd Sand Racing (Jersey) Order 1999. R &  O 9353.

  Im  m  ig r ation (Hotel Records) (Jersey) Order 1999. R  &  O  9354.

Special  Committee  to  consider the  relationship  between  Committees  and  the  States – appointment  of President

THE STATES appointed Senator Richard Joseph Shenton, O.B.E., as President of the Special Committee to consider the relationship between Committees and the States.

Employment and Social Security Committee – resignation of member

THE STATES noted the resignation of John Baudains Germain, Connétable of St.  Martin, from the Employment and Social Security Committee.

Matters presented

The following matters were presented to the States –

  W  elf  a r e Benefit Rates: recommended rates from 1st January 1999 – R.C.3/99. P re s e nted by the Employment and Social Security Committee.

  R e g u la  tion of Undertakings and Development: quarterly manpower report as at 30th September 1998 –

R.C.4/99.

P re s e nted by the Finance and Economics Committee.

A n e le c ted President of the States (P.3/99): report – P.3/99 Rpt. P re s e nted by the Policy and Resources Committee.

THE STATES ordered that the said reports be printed and distributed. Matters noted – land transactions

THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee, dated 25th January 1999, recording the following decisions of the Treasurer of the States under delegated powers, in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land –

(a ) as recommended by the Health and Social Services Committee, the lease from Mr. Michael Seamus

Patrick Morvan, of the property known as Uplands Cottage, St. John's Road, St. Helier, for a period of one year from 4th January 1999, at an annual rent of £19,999.99 payable quarterly in advance, with an option to renew for a further two years at a revised annual rent in line with the Jersey Retail Price s Index as at 4th January 2000 and 2001 respectively, on the basis that each party would be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( b ) as recommended by the Tourism Committee, the lease to Mrs. Sheila Fagan, née Needham, of a

certain area of land (including a concrete bunker) known as Café Casino, Greve de Lecq, St. Ouen , for a period of three years from 25th December 1997, at an annual rent of £3,242 subject to annual review in line with the Jersey Retail Price s Index, on the basis that the lessee would be responsible for all repair and maintenance of the property, and the lessor would be responsible for insurance of the  premises but not the  café building constructed by the lessee, and  that all other terms and conditions would be as in the existing lease, with each party being responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( c ) as recommended by the Housing Committee, the entering into of a Deed of Arrangement with

Mr.  Jocken Patrick Henderson Bell and Mrs. Debbie Kay Henderson Bell, née Le  Feuvre, the owner of No. 8 Clos de Noirmont, St.  Brelade, in order to perfect their title to the property as follows –

( i) t o c o nfirm that the existing Ronez split-block wall should belong entirely, without offset, to the

owners of No. 8 Clos de Noirmont;

(i i) t o confirm that any parts of the roof, guttering and down-pipe might remain as presently

established;

( ii i) to c onfirm that the owners of No.  8 Clos de Noirmont were to be afforded a right of access onto

the necessary parts of the grassed area belonging to the public, in the north of and coextensive with their property, in order to maintain and upkeep both the northern boundary wall and necessary parts of the north gable of their property, including those overhanging parts of the roof, guttering and down-pipe, with these rights of access to be granted on the usual terms and conditions;

( iv ) t o c o nfirm that in exercising such rights of access, the owners of No.  8 Clos de Noirmont would

be subject to the following restrictions affecting the use of the grassed area belonging to the public –

1 . t h e o w n  er s of each property within Clos de Noirmont would have the right to make use of

the various open areas retained by the public, with each owner being charged with contributing a 26th share towards the costs relating to the maintenance and upkeep of these open areas and of the drainage system established beneath the same; and

2 . th a t v a r io u s open areas retained by the public within Clos de Noirmont would be kept free of

vehicles and other obstructions;

( v ) t o c o nfirm that the abovementioned terms were subject to a consideration of £500 being paid to

the public in consideration of granting these rights and that it had been agreed that the legal expenses incurred by the public were to be met by Mrs. Patricia Jean Tanguy, née Blondel, the previous owner of No. 8 Clos de Noirmont, St.  Brelade;

( d ) as recommended by the Health and Social Services Committee, the entering into a Deed of

Arrangement with Mr. Christopher Edward Lloyd and Mrs. Christine Mary Lloyd, née Riches owners of the property known as Camden, Westmount, St. Helier, in order to clarify new and existing boundaries with the properties known as Overdale Hospital and the William Knott Day Centre, as detailed in a letter, dated 8th January 1999, from the Director of Property Services, on the basis that each party would be responsible for its own legal costs incurred in the transaction.

Matters noted – acceptance of tenders

THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee, dated 25th January 1999, showing that, in pursuance of Rule  5 of the Public Finances (General) (Jersey) Rules 1967, as amended, the Committee had noted that –

(a ) the Public Services Committee had accepted the lowest of three tenders, namely that submitted by

P.  Trant (Jersey) Limited in the sum of£356,819.10 for the Tower Road, St. Helier, Foul Water Extension and Surface Water Separation Scheme, in a contract period of 16 weeks, (which would provide drainage to 12 existing houses which were not currently connected – at an average cost per unit of £29,734.93);

(b  ) the Public Services Committee had accepted the lowest of four tenders, namely that submitted by

P.  Trant (Jersey) Limited in the sum of£661,522.80 for the Great Union Road Sewer Separation Scheme (which formed part of the on-going programme of surface water separation for St.  Helier) in a contract period of 40  weeks;

(c ) the Public Services Committee had accepted the lowest of three tenders, namely that submitted by

Jayen (Jersey) Limited in the sum of £463,842.05 in a contract period of 35 weeks for Contract 732 – Foul Sewer Extension – La Ville es Normans, Trinity , (which would provide drainage for approximately 32 properties – at an average cost per unit of £14,495.06).

Matters lodged

The following matters were lodged "au Greffe" –

  D r a f t H ealth Insurance (Medical Benefit) (Amendment No.  49) (Jersey) Regulations 199– P.14/99. P re s e nted by the Employment and Social Security Committee.

F ie ld 4 1 3 (part of), La Longue Rue, St. Martin: rezoning for residential development– P.15/99.

P re s e nted by the Planning and Environment Committee.

T o ur is m Investment Fund: grant of funds for construction of Les Creux Bowls Clubhouse – P.16/99. P re s e nted by the Finance and Economics Committee.

F ie ld 9 2 1, Rue à Georges, St. Mary: residential development within the agricultural priority zone – P.17/99. P re s e nted by Senator L. Norman and referred to the Policy and Resources Committee.

R e v ie w of Machinery of Government: terms of reference and membership (P.13/99) – amendment – P.18/99. D e p u ty J.L. Dorey of St. Helier.

R e v i ew of Machinery of Government: terms of reference and membership (P.13/99) – second amendments –

P.19/99.

S e n at or S. Syvret.

R e v i e w of Machinery of Government: terms of reference and membership (P.13/99) – third amendments –

P.20/99.

S e n at or S. Syvret.

Arrangement of public business for the next meeting on 16th February 1999

THE STATES confirmed that the following matters lodged "au Greffe" would be considered at their next meeting on 16th February 1999 –

M a i n s drains – connection to all properties: petition – P.108/97.

L o d g ed: 22nd July 1997 and referred to the Public Services and Finance and Economics Committees. D e p u ty F.J. Hill of St. Martin.

M a i n s drains – connection to all properties: petition (P.108/97): report – P.179/97. P re s e nted: 18th November 1997.

P u b li c Services Committee.

M a i n s drains – connection to all properties: petition (P.108/97): report – P.103/98. P re s e nted: 19th May 1998.

P o li c y and Resources Committee.

D r a ft Agricultural Marketing (Amendment No. 6) (Jersey) Law 199 – P.253/98. L o d g ed: 24th November 1998.

A g r ic ulture and Fisheries Committee.

D r a ft European Communities (Treaty of Amsterdam) (Jersey) Regulations 199 – P.263/98 L o d g ed: 8th December 1998.

P o li c y and Resources Committee.

L e a se of land at Five Oaks to Telecommunications Board – P.264/98. L o d g ed: 8th December 1998.

H e a lt h and Social Services Committee.

R e v ie w of the Machinery of Government: terms of reference and membership – P.13/99. L o d g ed: 19th January 1999.

P o li c y and Resources Committee.

R e v i ew of Machinery of Government: terms of reference and membership (P.13/99) – amendment –

P.18/99.

L o d g ed: 2nd February 1999.

D e p u ty J.L. Dorey of St.  Helier.

R e v iew of Machinery of Government: terms of reference and membership (P.13/99) – second

amendments – P.19/99.

L o d g ed: 2nd February 1999.

S en a t or S. Syvret.

R e v ie w of Machinery of Government: terms of reference and membership (P.13/99) – third amendments –

P.20/99.

L o d g ed: 2nd February 1999.

S en a t or S. Syvret.

D r a ft Health Insurance (Medical Benefit) (Amendment No. 49) (Jersey) Regulations 199 – P.14/99. L o d g ed: 2nd February 1999.

E m p l oyment and Social Security Committee.

T o u ri sm Investment Fund: grant of funds for construction of Les Creux Bowls Clubhouse – P.16/99. L o d g ed: 2nd February 1999.

F in a n ce and Economics Committee.

Capital projects – question and answer (Tape No. 492)

Senator Stuart Syvret asked Senator Frank Harris on Walker , President of the Finance and Economics Committee, the following question –

" W i l l the President provide members with a list of all those capital projects which have gone over budget during the period 1990 to the present day, and will he include in his answer the original estimated cost of each project, the actual final cost of each project or in those cases where this is not known, the most recent projection of the likely final cost?''

The President of the Finance and Economics Committee replied as follows –

" 1 . Capital projects may go over budget for a number of reasons including inflationary increases which have in the past been provided from the general reserve. However, with the introduction of total cash limits for capital projects, an allocation for inflation will be included within the amount voted for each project.

2 . M embers will find on their tables a schedule which shows that since 1990 an amount of £44 million

has been provided for capital projects to fund increases other than inflation.

3 . A lthough this is a very substantial sum the major overspends have been on projects which have

already attracted a great deal of publicity. The West of Albert, St. Helier Surface Water Link, the Marina and Airport projects account for £27 million of the£44 million non-inflationary increases.

4 . T his leaves a balance of £17 million on a total expenditure over the period of£274.4 million on the

projects in question (6.2 per cent).

5 . T hese figures clearly illustrate the need for the actions already taken by my Committee over the last

two years. These actions will lead to much more accurate information and a very substantial reduction in overspends on capital projects."

Nationalities of children in schools – questions and answers (Tape No. 492)

The Deputy of St.  John asked Senator Leonard Norman, President of the Education Committee, the following questions –

"( a ) How many different nationalities of children are educated in States schools; (b ) w hat percentages of children speak English when starting school;

(c ) w hat is the Committee's policy with regard to the use of indigenous languages for advertising school

enrolment details in the local news media and for conduct of school lessons?"

The President of the Education Committee replied as follows –

"( a ) Fourteen different nationalities of children are taught in Jersey schools;

(b ) in excess of 99 per cent of children speak English, with varying degrees of proficiency, when they

start school;

(c ) I am sure that the Deputy is not intending to refer to our indigenous language which is English as he

will be aware that all our advertisements are placed using our indigenous language.

H  o w e v e r , recognising that many members of our Portuguese community do not speak English, we

also place information concerning school admission procedures in Portuguese.

A l l l essons, apart from those in foreign languages, where the target' language is used, are taught in

English. There are also after school lessons, provided by teachers employed by the Portuguese Government, which are held in Portuguese. The purpose of these lessons is to maintain the children's cultural links with Portugal."

Charges for planning and building applications – question and answer (Tape No. 492)

The Deputy of St. John asked Senator Nigel Lewis Quérée, President of the Planning and Environment Committee, the following question –

" W  h en charges for planning and building applications were first introduced the President advised that there would also be a reduction in the waiting time for decisions for applications. Would the President advise members –

(a ) w hat reductions in waiting time have been achieved;

(b ) what is the reason for recent increases (some by as much as 50 per cent) in charges for planning and

building applications?"

The President of the Planning and Environment Committee replied as follows –

" (a ) The States considered the introduction of charges before the present Committee took office. The charges have been successfully implemented.

W  h e n th e States approved the principle of introducing charges on 24th May 1994, the report of the

then Island Development Committees report (P.54/94) set out the following arguments for their introduction –

i t w a s e q u i ta b l e for the developer to pay a proportion of the cost of the service i t w o u l d d e t e r frivolous, repeat and speculative applications

i t w o u l d i m p r o ve the quality of applications

i t w o u l d en a b l e the allocation of additional funds by the Finance and Economics Committee for

environmental purposes (this was also part of the proposition approved).

In th i s report to the States the then Island Development Committee did undertake To give

consideration to including a minimum time limit, although this has to be treated with caution as delays often occur where improvements in design can be negotiated with applicants.'

I a m   n o t a ware that my predecessor or I ever advised the States that there would be a reduction in time taken to determine applications. The previous Committee made a commitment to introduce a code of

practice, which would include a target of eight weeks. The code was introduced on 1st January 1997.

T h e f ir s t chart shows that there has been a significant increase in the number of applications over the

past four years. The rate of rejections suggests that there may have been a reduction in the number of purely frivolous or speculative applications.

D e s p it e the increase in numbers, the second chart shows that there has been a year on year

improvement in the speed in dealing with applications. This performance significantly exceeds United Kingdom performance standards for planning authorities of 60 per cent in eight weeks. This is achieved despite a much higher number of applications per officer (each Jersey officer deals on average with three times the number of applications that an equivalent officer in the United Kingdom deals with) and Jersey provides a combined planning and building control system.

T h e P la n n ing and Environment Committee is generally pleased with this measure of performance, but

is concerned about the volume of work which the department has to deal with and the resultant pressure on the professional staff. In addition, whilst the Committee wishes to provide a reasonably speedy service, it is the quality of the service and the quality of the outcomes which is uppermost in our considerations.

(b ) T he report approved by the States in 1994 stated the level of fees should be limited to a maximum of

50 per cent of the cost of application processing'. The fee scale set in 1996 proposed fees which reflected about 40 per cent of the cost of the service. That scale included concessions for small dwellings, agricultural and domestic types of applications. Applications for adaptation for disabled persons and other exceptional cases were exempted from fees.

 W  i th t h e agreement of the Finance and Economics Committee, the Committee has been able to

allocate additional revenue expenditure, equivalent to the income from the charges, for environmental purposes. This is in line with the proposition agreed by the States. For example, this has allowed the Committee to make over £250,000 grants to owners of historic buildings.

L a s t y e a r , during discussion over the 1999 cash limit, it became clear that the Committee could not

sustain its commitment to the environment or historic buildings, whilst maintaining the Committee's statutory services, without an increase in revenue. The £150,000 increased income from charges, which was highlighted in the Committee's budget for 1999, represents approximately 10 per cent of the cost of processing applications and brings the total charges up to the 50 per cent of cost agreed by the States in 1994.

T h e fe e s remain weighted in favour of the domestic and small dwellings, with the commercial

applications bearing the full impact of the increases.''

Facilities for customers awaiting taxis at the airport – questions and answers (Tape No. 492)

Deputy Terence John Le  Main of St.  Helier asked the Deputy of St.  Mary, President of the Harbours and Airpo Committee, the following questions –

" (a ) Would the President agree that there is much public disquiet over the lack of cover at the Airport for customers awaiting taxis at the designated rank?

(b ) Would the President inform members what progress has been made towards achieving a decent area

under cover for awaiting customers?

(c ) Would the President confirm that, when building a shelter for customers awaiting taxis, there is a

requirement for elderly persons to be able to sit and would he confirm that seats will be included in the taxi shelter?"

The President of the Harbours and Airport Committee replied as follows – "( a ) Yes.

(b ) The mission statement of the Airport is To become the most customer friendly airport in the British

Isles by the year 2000'. That clearly puts customer care as our second highest priority behind safety, which I as am sure everyone will agree, is and will be at all times our number one priority.

I a m   d el i ghted that Deputy Le  Main has asked these questions, because the answers will demonstrate

just how seriously my Committee takes the question of customer care.

A  t o u r v e ry first meeting at the Airport we discussed this issue of a covered waiting area for taxis

along with the facilities for waiting bus passengers. The latter had been addressed by Deputy Johns' Committee and a larger covered bus passenger facility has been ordered and will be installed as soon as it arrives. As regards the facilities for taxis passengers, the position is as follows –

1 . t h e w aiting taxis have been repositioned closer to the building;

2 . t h e A irport Director has been instructed –

( i) t o m  a n ag e the flow of arriving passengers who wish to take a taxi to their destination;

( ii ) t o a d d r e s s the provision of a covered area for waiting passengers, so that they can wait with

their baggage trolleys in an orderly queue out of the wind and rain;

( ii i) t o b r in g t o the Committee as soon as possible solutions to the problems.

(c ) I note the excellent point about seating for the elderly and I can assure the Deputy that the matter will

be addressed and had taken account of. However, the Committee are not architects and it is not possible at this point to guarantee that it will be practical to install adequate seating but, if it is, then we will do so."

Television licence fee for visually impaired persons – question and answer (Tape No. 492)

Deputy Terence John Le  Main of St.  Helier asked Senator Frank Harris on Walker , President of the Committee fo Postal Administration, the following question –

" W o u ld the President agree that it is inappropriate that persons registered as blind and living alone should receive as a concession only £1.25 discount on the television licence fee, and would his Committee consider ways and means within the Postal Department to subsidise licence fees for the small number of residents who are registered blind or visually impaired and report back to the States?"

The President of the Committee for Postal Administration replied as follows –

" A s D eputy Le Main is aware, Jersey Post has already investigated this issue in some detail, the results of which were made available in Jersey Post's letter to him, dated 15th January 1999.

Je r s e y Post acts as agents for the BBC in running the TV licence facility in Jersey. The discount of £1.25 is a discount negotiated between the BBC and the British Government many years ago. We are not

permitted by the BBC to provide TV licences for fees lower than those given by the BBC.

W e h ave made representation to the BBC over the past three years that the present discount of £1.25 is

less than appropriate. Their response was that they did not feel it was their role to subsidise licences and this was better suited to the welfare authorities, or other national or local government departments.

S e v e ral individuals in Jersey already receive support for funding all or part of their licence fee from either

their parish, or from local charities. Further support is available from the Royal National Institute for the Blind and also from the Jersey Blind Society.

It i s n ot Jersey Post's role to subsidise or provide welfare payments, which would be the effect of paying

such fees as TV licences. Even if this were felt to be appropriate, there could be equally valid claims from other members of the public such as the deaf, physically impaired and also those who are on welfare or income support.

S h o u ld Deputy Le  Main believe that these licences should be paid for, or otherwise subsidised by the

public of the Island, then I believe he should take it up with those bodies which are responsible for welfare."

Provision of social housing – questions and answers (Tape No. 492)

Deputy Terence John Le  Main of St.  Helier asked Deputy Shirley Margaret Baudains of St.  Helier, President o the Housing Committee, the following questions –

"1 . I n respect of the former Postal Headquarters site at Mont Millais, would the President confirm –

(a ) t hat her Committee has decided, in principle, that the Jersey Homes Trust will not be asked to develop

the site;

(b ) that over £600,000 has already been spent by her Committee on the Jersey Homes Trust Scheme –

over £300,000 each on site enabling works and professional fees;

(c ) i f a member of her Committee has approached property speculators and developers, offered them the

site and asked them to submit a purchase price for the site;

(d ) if the answer to (c) is in the affirmative, on whose authority was this done and were other Committee

members also aware;

(e ) that the Jersey Homes Trust is ready to invite tenders for the construction of social housing on the

site;

(f ) that the Jersey Homes Trust in its scheme is meeting the desperate need for units of accommodation

for families with children on this site as identified by officers in her department and recommended by them as very urgent?

2 . W ould the President inform members whether she is aware that the Jersey Homes Trust is unable to

pursue any further projects due to all the uncertainty about the intentions of her Committee and when she and her Committee plan to meet the Housing Trusts and their representatives?

3 . W ould the President confirm that her Committee will not be following the recommendations of the

Price waterhouseCoopers report and, if so, what are her proposed alternatives in funding social housing?

4 . W hat comfort can the President offer to WEB Limited as to her Committee's intentions for the 150

unit Waterfront housing scheme, who will carry out the development and who will pay for it?"

The President of the Housing Committee replied as follows –

" 1 ( a ) No. The Committee has decided that where projects are at an advanced stage, and this includes the Postal site, and where trusts have been heavily involved by previous Committees in developing schemes, the trusts, subject to certain conditions, should continue with those projects. Accordingly, the Committee has every intention of working with the Jersey Homes Trust in developing the Postal site.

(b ) The total sum expended is closer to £550,000. It would have been necessary to carry out the enabling

works whether a scheme of houses or flats is chosen, and this currently accounts for about £200,000. Nearly £350,000 has been expended on professional fees.

(c ) No Committee member has been given authority to speak or act on behalf of the Committee in any

negotiations with developers on this or any other site.

I ca n n o t speak for previous Committees but this Committee operates collective responsibility and is

seeking to work together to the benefit of those in need of housing in this Island.

I t i s t ru e that as politicians we are as accessible to developers as we are to any other members of our

community but, to the best of my knowledge, no member, under my Presidency, has entered into any negotiations.

N  e g o ti a ti ons are not conducted by individual members of my Committee without express authority.

Such authority has not been given.

(e ) T  he Jersey Homes Trust is very nearly ready to invite tenders for this project but will not do so until it

receives confirmation from the Housing Committee that it wishes the current scheme for 27 three- bedroom houses, four two-bedroom houses, 12 two-bedroom flats and two one-bedroom flats to proceed.

(f ) Yes, the current proposal to provide predominantly three-bedroom houses on the Mont Millais site

would help to meet the desperate need of some of the larger families with young children on the Committee's waiting and transfer lists.

2 . I wish to reassure all Housing Trusts that, subject to certain conditions being met, they will continue

to play an important part in the provision of social rented housing for the foreseeable future. For example, most recently my Committee has agreed that the Jersey Homes Trust should act jointly with the Waterfront Enterprise Board as the developer for the Waterfront Social Housing Scheme which will, subject to the approval of the States for the transfer of land, be funded from private sources with the help of the standard housing trust interest subsidy.

M y C o m m ittee intends to meet with the trusts and their representatives within the next few weeks.

3 . The Committee, like the previous Housing Committee, has decided not to follow all the

recommendations of the Price waterhouseCoopers report.

H  o u s in g Trusts in our view are one vehicle but not the only one and currently the Committee is

looking into other options.

N e v e rt h e less the Committee will continue to support current Housing Trust policy – where this

appears to offer best value, while at the same time investigating other methods of providing social rented housing to meet the predicted demands.

 T  h e C  o m mittee is working with the Finance and Economics Committee in examining alternative

methods of funding social rented housing and intends to bring new proposals to the States as soon as possible.

4 . T he answer to this question is covered in the answer to Question  2." Funding for social housing – question and answer (Tape No. 492)

Deputy Terence John Le  Main of St. Helier asked Senator Frank Harris on Walker , President of the Finance and Economics Committee, the following question –

" O n 19th January 1999 the President of the Housing Committee, in a Statement to the Assembly, said The Committee has decided that it would prefer to retain the rental stock currently under its control, and will as soon as possible, bring a report and proposition to the States seeking additional funding to allow the retention of Westley Court, Westley Lodge and Maison Le Fondré. At this time the Committee does not propose to pursue the sale of Liberation Court or St.  Thomas' Villas.' –

(a ) would the President inform members whether funds in the region of £150 million are available to

meet the aims and objectives of the Housing Committee, and could he confirm that officers at the Treasury have agreed in principle' to allow the Housing Committee to borrow funds to provide 900 units of social housing from the private sector or banks;

(b ) would the President inform members of the cost of producing the Price waterhouseCoopers report on

Housing Association Trusts, which was commissioned by his Committee?"

The President of the Finance and Economics Committee replied as follows –

"( a ) Discussions have taken place with the Housing Committee in order to find a workable solution to the funding problems related with the predicted need for social rented housing in the Island. Although

specific funding has not been allocated to meet the aims and objectives of the Housing Committee, the Finance and Economics Committee has indicated its willingness to consider and discuss all options and alternatives available to the States to ensure that the housing requirements are addressed.

A  ll fu n d i ng options available to the States are currently being considered and the principle of the

States borrowing as part of a package of measures has not been dismissed. All proposals on the way ahead in funding terms will need to be sanctioned by the States prior to their implementation.

I c a n n o t , however, confirm that £150 million is available as my Committee is concerned at the effect

such a sum would have on our ability to fund other essential social projects. The Price WaterhouseCoopers report which my Committee has accepted clearly indicates that there are more cost effective solutions available to this Assembly.

(b ) The report commissioned by the Finance and Economics Committee from Price WaterhouseCoopers

was NOT a review of Housing Associations; it was a full review of all the funding options available to the States for the provision of social rented housing.

O  n e o f th e alternatives considered as part of the work was the provision of social rented housing by

Housing Trusts. The final report by the consultants included a section providing advice and recommendations in relation to the Regulation and Constitutions for Housing Trusts.

T h e fi n a l cost of the full report was £31,250."

Genetic modified organisms – questions and answers (Tape No. 492)

Deputy Alan Simon Crowcroft of St.  Helier asked Deputy Harry Hall ewell Baudains of St.  Clement, President o

the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee, the following questions –

" 1 . Would the President inform the Assembly whether research into GMOs (Genetically Modified Organisms) is being carried out in Jersey, or elsewhere, on our behalf and, if so, by whom, for what purpose, for how long and at what cost is the research being conducted?

2 . W ould the President further inform the Assembly whether there have been any transgenic constructs

or other genetic modifications of the Jersey Royal potato? If so –

( a ) w h a t other species was involved?

(b ) h a v e experimental releases of genetically modified Jersey Royals taken place in Jersey  or

elsewhere?

( c ) h a v e the details of the research been made available for public perusal? ( d ) h a s t here been any independent monitoring of this research?

( e ) i s t h e President aware that the majority of United Kingdom consumers do not want genetically

modified food and that local research into them could adversely affect Jersey's export trade in Royals?"

The President of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee replied as follows –

" R e s earch into genetically modifying the Jersey Royal potato has been undertaken at the Institute of Arable Crop Research (IACR), Rothamsted Research station since 1991, following a proposition lodged "au Greffe" on 5th February 1991, and subsequently approved by the States.

T h e p urpose of this research is to eliminate the need for use in the Island of plant protection products to

control the damaging pest – potato cyst nematode (commonly known as eelworm).

T h is work is only part of a suite of projects all with the same objectives.

T h e present contract is due for completion during 1999 with the production of the desired construct. To

date the research has cost £660,552.

( a ) The final construct will involve only Jersey Royal's own genes, the research has identified and

deployed the plants' own defence proteins. All previous constructs have remained at Rothamsted or been totally destroyed.

(b ) No experimental releases of genetically modified Jersey Royals have taken place. All material is still

at Phase  1 glasshouse containment under strict security.

( c ) Yes, the media have been kept abreast, and details of progress has been presented at farmers'

meetings.

( d ) The work was independently audited in 1993 by Dr. Denis Piggott who was an eminent

biotechnologist in the medical field having worked for Imperial Cancer Research.

T h e f a ct that this work is undertaken at Rothamsted has the very obvious advantage that the work is

continually reviewed by groups of co-workers, who are engaged in a wide range of research work.

(e ) While accepting there may be some consumer resistance at the moment, research should not affect

our present marketing and it will be many years before we have a saleable product.

I n th e H  ouse of Lords report of the Select Committee on The European Communities entitled EC

Regulation of Genetic Modification in Agriculture there is much common sense. I w  o u ld q uote from the summary of that report –

B i o te c h n o l o g y in general and genetic modification in particular offer great potential benefits to agriculture, industry, consumers and even to the environment. We consider that GM technology may offer much to organic systems, for example through reduced inputs.

O  n c e t h e r e g u latory process has ensured safety, the success or failure of the technology must be

left to consumer choice in the marketplace. The two issues involved in providing choice are the supply of GM and non-GM products and labelling.'

A l s o w e have direct contact with the Head of Biotechnology Controls in the Department of

Environment, Transport and Regions – who are directly responsible for approving the field growth of GM crops in the United Kingdom and rest of the EU. Nothing will be allowed to happen in Jersey that is not approved by both EU and United Kingdom regulations, bearing in mind the marketability of the end product. Customer acceptability will be of paramount importance.

 T  h e C  o m mittee of Agriculture and Fisheries did not obtain EU recognition for the Jersey Royal

without undertaking an obligation to protect this unique variety. At the same time the Committee of Agriculture and Fisheries would be failing in its duty if it did not take every step to actively pursue lines of development that ensure the Jersey Royal remains not only unique but is capable of being produced in a sustainable system.

T h e fa r - si ghtedness of the States in commencing this work eight years ago is to be commended." La Collette II reclamation site – question and answer (Tape No. 492)

Senator Stuart Syvret asked Deputy Jeremy Laurence Dorey of St.  Helier, President of the Public Services Committee, the following

question –

" W  o uld the President inform the Assembly whether the infill of the La  Collette  II reclamation site ha been mechanically compacted as infilling has progressed?"

The President of the Public Services Committee replied as follows –

" W  h en the La  Collette  II facility opened a meeting was held with all interested parties to agree on th method of infilling. Following a criticism of the method of infilling employed on the west of Albert site, it was agreed that filling of the area identified for industrial use would be closely monitored. The services of a Geotechnical Engineer have been employed to advise on the most appropriate method and degree of superfilling, in order to achieve the necessary bearing pressure for industrial use.

A s a n alternative to the superfilling process, Dynamic Compaction was considered. This essentially

requires large quantities of graded stone to be placed on the site in layers and compacted into the surface. This option was rejected on the basis that it would require the recycled stone to be infilled into the site and would use up valuable tipping space. Another form of Dynamic Compaction involves an operation rather similar to pile-driving, except that the aim is to compact the ground rather than penetrate it. It was felt that this option would have entailed unacceptable levels of disruption to residents of the area.

T h e method actually chosen, superfilling, effectively amounts to compacting the ground by weighing it

down, then removing the superfill to the tip head as the site progresses.

P a rt o f the area not identified for industrial use will have a hill constructed, thereby providing the required

compaction to this area of the site.

I t i s estimated that by utilising the superfilling process, approximately 100mm of compaction can be achieved. Based on the area infilled to the end of December 1998, the additional volume created through

this process is approximately 7320m3."

Standard of service rendered by lawyers – questions and answers (Tape No. 492)

Senator Stuart Syvret asked the Deputy of Grouville , President of the Legislation Committee, the following question –

" O n 22nd September 1998, I asked the President questions concerning what consumer protection mechanisms are available to members of the public in respect of legal services rendered by lawyers and, in particular, my question (2) asked how this compared and contrasted with the service provided by lawyers in the United Kingdom. The President was unable to provide a detailed answer on that occasion because of time constraints.

Is th e President now in a position to provide a detailed answer to that question?" The President of the Legislation Committee replied as follows –

" It a ppeared to my Committee that Senator Syvret was content with the answers given to him on 22nd September 1998. He did not ask for more information and, therefore, further research was not undertaken.

H o w  ever. I am shortly to chair a Working Party which will examine the recommendations made in the

report of the Jersey Consumer Council on legal charges and practices which was presented to the States on 22nd September 1998 and referred to the Legislation Committee.

I t is envisaged that this body will examine in detail the consumer protection mechanisms available to

members of the public in respect of legal services, and may well compare and contrast these with services provided by lawyers in the United Kingdom."

States meetings – statement

The Deputy of St.  Mary, President of the House Committee, made a statement in the following terms –