States Minutes 24th September 2002

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 24th September 2002 at 9.30 a.m. under the Presidency of the Deputy Bailiff , Michael Cameron St. John Birt, Esquire.

His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor,

Air Chief Marshal Sir John Cheshire, K.B.E., C.B., was present

All members were present with the exception of -

S e nator Pierre François Horsfall - out of the Island

J o hn Baudains Germain, Connétable of St. Martin - out of the Island

H e nry George Coutanche, Connétable of St. Lawrence - out of the Island J e nnifer-Anne Bridge, Deputy of St. Helier - out of the Island.

Prayers

Welcome - Deputy M. Collins, Chief Pleas of Sark

The Deputy Bailiff extended a welcome on behalf of all members of the States to Deputy Mary Collins, Chief Pleas of Sark, who was present in the private gallery.

Subordinate legislation tabled

The following enactments were laid before the States, namely -

Me dicines (General Sale List) (Amendment No. 5) (Jersey) Order 2002. R & O 91/2002.

Me dicines (Aristolochia, Mu Tong and Fangji) (Prohibition) (Jersey) Order 2002. R & O 92/2002.

Me dicines (Sale and Supply) (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Order 2002. R & O

93/2002.

Me dicines (Prescription Only) (Amendment No. 4) J(ersey) Order 2002. R & O 94/2002.

Banking Business (General Provisions) (Jersey) Order 2002. R & O 95/2002.

Social Security (Earnings Limit) (Jersey) Order 2002. R & O 96/2002.

H o spital Charges (Long-Stay Patients) (Amendment No. 5) (Jersey) Order 2002. R & O 97/2002.

Committee of Inquiry into Building Costs resignation of the President

THE STATES accepted the resignation of Senator Wendy Kinnard as President of the Committee of Inquiry into Building Costs.

Matters presented

The following matters were presented to the States -

United Nations International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR): concluding observations of the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights - R.C.34/2002.

P r esented by the Policy and Resources Committee.

International Conventions and Agreements: progress report for the period 1st April 2001 to 31st March 2002 - R.C.35/2002.

P r esented by the Policy and Resources Committee.

States of Jersey Law 1966, as amended: delegation of functions - prison - remission of sentence - R.C.36/2002. P r esented by the Home Affairs Committee.

Draft Planning and Building (Amendment) (Jersey) Law 200- (P.56/2002): comments - P.56/2002 Com. P r esented by the Finance and Economics Committee.

Draft Planning and Building (Amendment) (Jersey) Law 200- (P.56/2002): comments - P.56/2002 Com. (2). P r esented by the Human Resources Committee.

Jersey Harbours: harbour dues (P.129/2002) - comments - P.129/2002 Com. P r esented by the Finance and Economics Committee.

Mains Drain Extension Scheme: Thistle Grove, St.  Lawrence andSt. John (P.141/2002) - report - P.141/2002  Rpt. P r esented by the Public Services Committee.

Mains Drain Extension Scheme: Thistle Grove, St. Lawrence and St. John (P.141/2002) - comments - P.141/2002 Com.

P r esented by the Finance and Economics Committee.

Machinery of Government: freedom of representation (P.142/2002) - comments - P.142/2002 Com. P r esented by the Policy and Resources Committee.

The following matter was presented on 17th September 2002 -

Criminal Injuries Compensation Board: report and accounts for 2001 - R.C.33/2002. P r esented by the Home Affairs Committee.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed. Matters noted - land transactions

THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 18th September 2002 recording the following decisions of the Treasurer of the States under delegated powers, in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land -

( a ) as recommended by the Health and Social Services Committee, the lease from Mr.  Derek Horsfall and

Mrs. Eileen Doris Horsfall, née Chapron, of the property known as Holley Tree House, La Grande Route de St. Jean, Trinity , for a further period of two years from 1st August 2002 at a revised annual rent of £19,200 (representing £369.23 a week), payable quarterly in advance, subject to a rental increase in line with the Jersey Retail Price Index as at 1st August. Each party would be responsible for its own legal costs arising from this transaction and no deposits were to be paid;

( b ) as recommended by the Public Services Committee, and in accordance with terms and conditions which

had been agreed with the Bosdet Foundation, the owner of Field No.  50, La Ville des Quennevais,

St.  Brelade (known as Les Ormes Golf Links), which area had been identified as being the most suitable position

for the Ville es Quennevais Foul Sewer Extension Pumping Station -

(i ) th e purchase from the Bosdet Foundation of an area of land (measuring 1,364  square feet) required

for the construction of a pumping station for a consideration of £1,364;

(i i) th e payment to the Bosdet Foundation of a sum of £3,636 for the use of additional land required

for a working area in order to construct the pumping station;

( ii i)  t he sale to the Bosdet Foundation of the car park situated in Field No.  15, St.  Brelade for

consideration of £10,000;

(i v )  t he sale to the Bosdet Foundation of the remaining agricultural area of Field No.  15, St.  Brelad

for a consideration of £10,000;

o n t he basis that each party will be responsible for its own legal costs arising from these transactions;

(c) as recommended by the Public Services Committee, the entering into of a Deed of Arrangement with La Phare Holdings Limited in respect of Corbière Phare, St. Brelade, which bordered public land administered by the Harbours and Airport Committee, in order to ratify an uncertain boundary, on the following terms -

(i ) L a Phare Holdings Limited would acquire from the public two parcels of land (Areas "A" and

"B" - measuring 1,410 square feet and 1,058 square feet respectively), for a nomina consideration of £5 each, and in turn the public would acquire from La Phare Holdings Limited one parcel of land (Area "C" - measuring 543 square feet) for a nominal consideration of£10';

( ii ) a new boundary line was to be created between Corbière Phare and the public land, and the

public's right of way over Corbière Phare was to be cancelled;

(i ii )  n ew service clauses were to be implemented to cover all existing mains services, including drains,

serving both properties. Access rights were to be provided, on the usual terms and conditions, for both parties, and there was to be a contractual obligation for each party to contribute its fair proportion of the costs of the maintenance, upkeep and repair, etc. of those parts of the mains services which were to serve both properties in common. Any parts of the mains services that were to serve one property independently would be the sole responsibility of the relevant party;

(i v )  L a Phare Holdings Limited was to be granted access rights, on the normal terms and conditions,

on to the necessary parts only of the adjoining public land in order to repair and maintain, etc. all enclosures separating its property from the public land. those access rights were to be exercised with due consideration of the Site of Special Interest designation of the public land;

(v )  t he existing enclosure clause referred to in a 1955 Deed was to be cancelled in its entirety;

(v i )  t he existing pedestrian entrance in the southern boundary of the company's property would be

permitted to remain. No pedestrian rights of way would be granted to the company over the public land, though the entrance would be used for exercising the company's access rights;

(v i i )  the cost of the production of the boundary drawings by professional Hi-Tech Services Limited

(£2,855) was to be shared equally between the public and Corbière Hotels Limited (the former owner of Corbière Phare). The Harbours and Airport Committee and the Public services Committee would each be required to pay a quarter of the costs (£713.75 each);

(v i ii ) each party was to be responsible for the payment of its own legal expenses incurred in relation to

the proposed transaction;

4. as recommended by the Sport, Leisure andRecreationCommittee, the entering into of a Deed of Arrangement with  Mr. Alan O'Prey and  Mrs.  Elizabeth O'Prey,  née McNamara, as owners of the property known as Springfield Cottage, Springfield Lane, St.  Helier, to provide the required access rights to service two dwellingswhichweretobeconstructedon the site of the existing Springfield Cottage whichwas itself to bedemolished.It was noted that termsand conditions had been agreed,as follows -

(i ) th at a covenant be contained in the Deed in order to restrict the development of the Springfield

Cottage site to the construction of two semi-detached dwellings of approximately 1,250  square feet per property, with two car parking spaces to be allocated per unit;

(i i ) th at the Deed would require the development to be undertaken strictly in accordance with the

planning permission and building regulation approval;

(i ii )  t hat the Deed would allow vehicular and pedestrian access to the northern boundary of the site in

order to serve the two units;

(i v )  t hat in consideration of the rights granted, the beneficiaries would pay to the public a sum of

£5,000 upon completion of the Deed and all reasonable legal and other professional fees incurred by the public in relation to the preparation of the necessary Deed of Arrangement;

( v ) that the Deed would provide all necessary rights of access onto the "Springfield Stadium"

premises in order to repair and maintain the relevant boundary enclosures (subject to the usual terms and conditions); and

(v i )  t hat during the course of the proposed demolition/redevelopment works a full indemnity to the

public would be provided with regard to any claims, costs, damages or injuries arising directly or indirectly from the works concerned. Such indemnity was required to be supported by a formal Public Liability Insurance Policy with a minimum level of cover of £2 million sterling, which was to be enforced from the commencement of the works, until such time as practical completion had been achieved.

Matters lodged

The following matters were lodged "au Greffe" -

Draft Misuse of Drugs (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Law 200- P.164/2002. P r esented by the Health and Social Services Committee.

Draft Community Provisions Dual-Use items (Export Control) (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

P.165/2002.

P r esented by the Finance and Economics Committee.

Draft Health Insurance (Medical Benefit) (Amendment No.  56) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P.166/2002. P r esented Employment and Social Security Committee.

16 Clairvale Road, St. Helier: Adult Mental Health Rehabilitation Unit - development agreement and lease - P.167/2002.

P r esented by the Health and Social Services Committee.

Draft European Communities Legislation (Implementation) (Cattle Identification) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P.168/2002.

P r esented by the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee.

Jersey Overseas Aid Committee: funding - P.169/2002.

P r esented by the Overseas Aid Committee.

St. Helier Street Life Programme - P.170/2002.

P r esented by the Planning and Environment Committee.

Machinery of Government: structure of the Executive - P.171/2002. P r esented by the Policy and Resources Committee.

Tax Information: exchange agreement with the United States of America - P.172/2002. P r esented by the Policy and Resources Committee.

Haut de la Garenne: Incorporation of Trust, appointment of original Trustees, and lease of property to the Trust

(P.147/2002) - amendment - P.147/2002 Amd.

Presented by the Planning and Environment Committee.

The following matters were lodged on 17th September 2002 -

Elizabeth Harbour, St. Helier: Commodore Shipping (Jersey) Limited - variation and assignment of lease - P.161/2002.

P r esented by the Harbours and Airport Committee.

Draft Insurance Business (Amendment No.  4) (Jersey) Law 200- P.162/2002. P r esented by the Finance and Economics Committee.

New North Quay, St. Helier: erection of fencing - review - P.163/2002. P r esented by the Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement.

Arrangement of public business for the present meeting

THE STATES confirmed that the following matters lodged "au Greffe" would be considered at the present meeting -

Royde House, 21 Midvale Road, St. Helier: lease of accommodation - P.137/2002. L o dged: 20th August 2002.

H  e alth and Social Services Committee.

Draft Nursing and Residential Homes (Amendment) (Jersey) Law 200- P.140/2002. L o dged: 27th August 2002.

H  e alth and Social Services Committee.

D  r aft Licensing (Licence Fees) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P.150/2002. L o dged: 10th September 2002.

T o urism Committee.

THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Planning and Environment Committee and agreed that consideration of the proposition regarding Planning and Building Core Service: strategy for future resourcing (P.143/2002 lodged "au Greffe" on 27th August 2002) be deferred from the present meeting to a later date.

THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Home Affairs Committee that consideration of the Draft Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law 200- (P.89/2002 lodged "au Greffe" on 28th May 2002) be deferred from the present meeting to a later date.

St. Helier Street Life Programme - P.120/2002

THE STATES noted that in accordance with Standing Order 22(3), the President of the Planning and Environment Committee had instructed the Greffier of the States to withdraw the proposition regarding St. Helier Street Life Programme (P.120/2002 lodged "au Greffe" on 9th July 2002) the Committee having lodged a revised proposition "au Greffe" at the present meeting.

Arrangement of public business for the next meeting on 1st October 2002

THE STATES confirmed that the following matters lodged "au Greffe" would be considered at the next meeting on 1st October 2002 -

Machinery of Government: freedom of representation - P.142/2002

L o dged: 27th August 2002.

S e nator S. Syvret.

Machinery of Government: freedom of representation (P.142/2002) - Comments - P.142/2002 Com.

L o dged: 24th September 2002.

P o licy and Resources Committee.

Ma c hinery of Government: freedom of representation (P.142/2002) - Comments - P.142/2002 Amd.

L o dged: 10th September 2002.

P o licy and Resources Committee.

Draft Amendment (No.  11) of Standing Orders Relating to Certain Transactions in Land- P.133/2002. L o dged: 13th August 2002.

P r ivileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Public Holidays and Bank Holidays (Amendment No.  2) (Jersey) Law 200- P.136/2002.

L o dged: 20th August 2002.

F i nance and Economics Committee.

Mains Drain Extension Scheme: Thistle Grove, St.  Lawrence andSt.  John- P.141/2002.

L o dged: 27th August 2002.

D  e puty of St. John.

Mains Drain Extension Scheme: Thistle Grove, St. Lawrence andSt. John (P.141/2002) - comments - P.141/2002

Com.

P r esented: 24th September 2002.

F i nance and Economics Committee.

Mains Drain Extension Scheme: Thistle Grove, St. Lawrence andSt. John (P.141/2002) - report - P.141/2002 Rpt. P r esented: 24th September 2002.

P u blic Services Committee.

Draft Boats and Surf-Riding (Control) (Amendment No. 23) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P.144/2002.

L o dged: 3rd September 2002.

H  a  rbours and Airport Committee.

Draft Pilotage (General Provisions) (Amendment No.  8) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P.145/2002.

L o dged: 3rd September 2002.

H  a  rbours and Airport Committee.

Draft Harbours (Amendment No.  34) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P.146/2002.

L o dged: 3rd September 2002.

H  a  rbours and Airport Committee.

Draft Health and Safety at Work (Construction) (Personal Protective Equipment) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

P.154/2002.

L o dged: 10th September 2002.

E m  ployment and Social Security Committee.

Draft Motor Traffic (No. 9) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P.155/2002. L o dged: 10th September 2002.

H  o  me Affairs Committee.

New North Quay, St. Helier: erection of fencing - review - P.163/2002. L o dged: 17th September 2002.

D  e puty G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement.

Funding of Welfare - P.135/2002: withdrawn

THE STATES noted that, in pursuance of Standing Order 17(6), the proposition relating to the Funding of Welfare (P.135/2002 lodged "au Greffe" on 11th September 2001) had been withdrawn.

Draft Rehabilitation of Offenders (Jersey) Law 2001 (Appointed Day) Act 200- P.63/2002

THE STATES noted that, in accordance with Standing Order 22(3), the President of the Legislation Committee had instructed the Greffier of the States to withdraw the proposition regarding the Draft Rehabilitation of Offenders (Jersey) Law 2001 (Appointed Day) Act 200-, the Committee having lodged "au Greffe" revised propositions (P.156/2002 and P.157/2002) on 10th September 2002.

Income tax exemptions and personal allowances - questions and answers (Tape No. 774)

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier asked Senator Frank Harris on Walker , President of the Finance and Economics Committee the following questions -

" 1 . Income tax exemptions and personal allowances have been frozen' (not adjusted for inflation) since 1999. The President has indicated the Committee's intention to freeze allowances again in the 2003 budget. Would the President indicate -

 ( a ) what net increase in tax revenue has been produced by this measure over the three year period 2000-

2002?

(i )  f r o m marginal tax?

(i i)  fr o m standard rate tax?

 ( b ) how many persons have been brought into taxation over that three year period?  ( c ) what return is forecast on this year's tax revenue?

2 .  Will the President confirm that, apart from the year 1999, income tax exemptions and allowances have

remained at the same level since 1990 and indicate -

 ( a ) the total increase in revenue? (i )  t h r ough marginal tax?

(i i)  fr o m standard rate?

( b ) the total number of additional earners brought into tax over this 12 year period?

3 .  Does the President agree that the figures above confirm the regressive nature of freezing allowances and

exemptions in disproportionately affecting the less well off?

4 .  Will the President reconsider his proposal to freeze allowances in the 2003 budget and raise the sum

indicated in his answer to 1(c) through some more progressive mechanism?"

The President of the Finance and Economics Committee replied as follows -

" 1 . It is true to state that personal allowances have been frozen for the years of assessment 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. Personal allowances are granted to those who have the highest incomes and whose earnings are too high to benefit from tax exemption limits.

It is in accurate to state, however, that tax exemptions have been frozen since 1999. In actual fact, tax

exemptions have been frozen for the years of assessment 2000, 2001 and 2002 at 1999 levels, the 1999 tax exemptions having been increased compared to the 1998 tax exemption limits. Tax exemptions - commonly termed thresholds' - are granted to lower and middle income earners and are utilised to either keep taxpayers completely out of the tax net or, alternatively, to allow them the benefit of those high exemption limits, which, when combined with the marginal rate of tax, results in a lower tax bill than they would suffer if granted personal allowances and then charged at the standard 20 per cent rate of tax.

T h e C  omptroller of Income Tax has done some statistical calculations and modelling on his department's

computer system using his existing taxpayer data base and estimates, in broad terms, that the measures outlined above will produce for the years of collection 2000 to 2002 some £10 million in additional tax revenues, with some £2 million arising from the freezing of personal allowances and some£8 million arising from the freezing of tax exemptions.

T h e n u mber of additional cases assessed to tax between the years of assessment 1999 and 2001 totalled

1,922. I ought to add that it is not possible to say how many people will be assessed to tax in the year of assessment 2002 because that assessing cycle will not start until January, 2003.

T h e r e turn forecast for this year from the freezing of personal allowances and tax exemptions, by which I

assume the Deputy means the year of collection 2002, is included in the total figure given above and is estimated to be, in broad terms, some £6 million.

2 .  I am unable to give the confirmation sought by the Deputy in relation to the levels of tax allowances and

tax exemption limits since 1990.

P e r so n al tax allowances for single and married people increased in 1991 from 1990 levels and were

frozen from the 1992 year of assessment onwards at those 1991 levels. These are the tax allowances, as I mentioned in the answer to the last question, which are granted to the highest earners. Other tax allowances, however, such as child allowance, additional personal allowance, wife's earned income relief, retirement annuity relief and child care tax relief have all been increased - or been introduced - since 1990. If the Deputy wants details of the increases in these particular allowances and reliefs, the Comptroller of Income Tax will be pleased to meet with him and outline all of these changes.

T a x e x emption limits, as I mentioned in the answer to the last question, are granted to lower and middle

income earners and have been increased, since 1990, as follows -

1 9 9 1 si n g l e - £9,100 m a r ried - £14,800 1 9 9 2 si n g l e - £9,375 m a r ried - £15,250 1 9 9 4 si n g l e - £9,600 m a r ried - £15,630 1 9 9 5 si n g l e - £9,840 m a r ried - £16,020 1 9 9 6 si n g l e - £10,040 m a rried - £16,340 1 9 9 7 si n g l e - £10,425 m a rried - £16,750 1 9 9 9 si n g l e - £10,750 m a rried - £17,250.

S im  il a r increases were made to the exemption limits granted to those aged 63 or more.

A l l t h ese increases in tax exemption limits protected the lower and middle income earners from higher

tax bills, in contrast to the single and married man's personal allowances given to the highest earners, which were frozen from 1992 onwards at 1991 levels. These tax exemption limits are also supplemented by the following tax allowances and reliefs, making it possible for a person to earn quite a considerable salary before becoming liable to tax -

c h i ld a ll o w ance;

c h i ld c ar e t ax relief;

w  if e 's e ar n ed income relief; ad d i t io nal personal allowance.

F o r e x ample, a married couple who are both working and have two children (one at university) paying

mortgage interest of £5,000 do not become liable to pay income tax in 2001 until their income exceeds £34,250.

T h e t o tal increase in tax revenues for all employed, self employed and investment holders paying tax at

the marginal rate of tax in the period 1990 to 2001 was £29 million. The total increase in tax revenues for all employed, self employed and investment holders paying tax at the standard rate of tax in the period 1990 to 2001 was £68 million.

T h e n u mber of additional cases assessed to tax between the years of assessment 1990 and 2001 totalled

4,145. The number of additional earners assessed between the years 1990 and 2001 amount to 3,443.

3 .  N o. I do not agree with that assertion.

T h e f a ct is that tax exemptions, which are granted to the lower and middle income earners, have risen a

great deal more than tax allowances in the decade 1990 to 2000 as the answer to a previous question illustrates. This was also from a starting point which was very much higher than the single and married person's personal tax allowances. Because of these high tax exemption limits, 50 per cent of all personal tax is paid by 10 per cent of taxpayers and five out of 10 people pay tax at an effective rate of four per cent or less.

 I sh o u ld also like to point out that the average effective rate of tax on employees in 1985 was 10.2 per

cent. The average effective rate of tax on employees in 2001 was 9.9 per cent. So today's employees are paying at an effective rate of tax that is less than employees were paying 17 years ago.

J e rs e y also has very generous tax exemption limits. For example, if we replaced our current tax

exemption limits with Guernsey tax allowances, and kept our standard rate taxpayers at their current Jersey level of personal tax allowances, it is estimated that we could claw back additional tax revenues of some £20 million.

4 . N o. In accordance with long established practice, personal tax allowances will continue to be frozen for

2003 so that those who earn the most continue to pay progressively more tax.

I n o t e that the Deputy has not asked about tax exemption limits in this question - which are granted to

low and middle income earners. I can confirm that tax exemptions will also be frozen for 2003 for the reasons outlined in the answer to the previous question."

Leachate pollution at Beauport - question and answer (Tape No. 774)

The Deputy of St. John asked Senator Jean Amy Le Maistre, President of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee, the following question -

"I n 1992 many tons of potatoes were buried at Beauport which caused leachate pollution. Would the

President -

( a ) confirm that leachate is still being removed from that site and give details of the volume removed since

dumping began until and including August this year?

( b ) give the volume broken down on an annual basis?

( c ) estimate how much longer leachate will have to be collected?

( d ) give the total cost to the taxpayer to date of collecting and transporting leachate?" The President of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee replied as follows -

" ( a) I confirm that leachate is still being removed from the Beauport site. With regard the volume of leachate removed since 1992, this is estimated by my Department and the Public Services Department to be 11,168,074 gallons.

( b ) For the period July 1992 until June 1997, the Public Services Department has estimated that the total

volume removed was 5,560,000 gallons, an average of 1,112,000 gallons per year.

N o re c ords are available for the period July 1997 to June 1998. For that period it has been assumed that

the volume was 1,112,000 gallons, based on the estimated volumes for the earlier years.

S in c e July 1998 records kept by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries show - F o r th e period July - December 1998, 350,007 gallons.

In 1 9 9 9 7 1 0,015 gallons.

In 2 0 0 0 9 3 4,020 gallons.

In 2 0 0 1 1 ,0 86,023 gallons.

In 2 0 0 2, including August, 416,009 gallons.

( c ) The answer to this question remains the same as I gave to the Deputy on 18th January 2002 in the

Assembly.

A t th a t time officers of the Public Services Department were consulted and it was concluded that the

composition of the leachate would not have reached a safe level, so allowing it to be released into the stream at Beauport, for at least a further five years. There is no subsequent information to alter this conclusion. The composition of the leachate is monitored regularly.

( d ) To obtain this information it has been necessary to go back to records for earlier years to identify

invoices in connection with the work. On that basis the Department has made the following estimates for the period since January 1999.

1 9 9 9 £ 1 8,045

2 0 0 0 £ 2 5,129

2 0 01  £ 23,985

2 0 0 2 £ 7 ,439 (including some August invoices).

T o o b tain this information prior to 1999 would require a disproportionate input of staff time. The

Department's view is that costs for the earlier years would have been similar, depending on rainfall and contractors charges. Assuming an average cost for earlier years of £18,000, the total cost for the ten years to date would be approximately £192,000."

St. Helier Street Life Programme and the practice of photographing properties - questions and answers (Tape No. 774)

Deputy Gerard Clifford Lemmens Baudains of St. Clement, asked Senator Nigel Lewis Quérée, President of the Planning and Environment Committee, the following questions -

" 1 . Will the President explain why the St. Helier Street Life Programme (P.120/2002), stated in July to be of the utmost urgency, has still not been set down for debate, and will he advise when he intends to ask the Assembly to consider the matter?

2 . W ith regard to photographs recently alleged to have been taken of private property by Planning Officers,

would the President advise members -

(a ) w  hether records are kept of properties photographed indicating when photographs were taken and by

whom?

( b ) h ow many private properties his officers have photographed in the last three years other than in

connexion with a planning application or a complaint?

(c ) w hether all occupiers/owners were notified prior to those photographs being taken and, if not, how

many owner/occupiers were not notified in advance?

 ( d ) during the last three years, for what purposes photographs have been taken and would the President

supply numbers for each category?

( e) w hether the photographs concerned were taken with digital cameras and whether the images so

captured were downloaded onto computers."

The President of the Planning and Environment Committee replied as follows -

" 1 . The requirement to expedite the implementation of the St. Helier Street Life Programme remains as pedestrians still suffer the problems of inadequate pavement widths and poor crossing facilities, resulting in continued pedestrian injury accidents, and businesses endure other problems as a result of a lack of delivery bays in the centre of St. Helier.

T h e D eputy will be aware that the volume of States business at the end of the last session effectively

prevented debate on this matter.

It w a s proposed that this proposition be brought back for debate by the States today, however, in light of decisions taken during the Island Plan debate and other issues, it has been necessary to amend the report

and proposition. Accordingly, the current proposition (P.120/2002) has been withdrawn and a revised

proposition lodged today for debate as soon as the States will allow.

2 . (a) T h e recent allegations are the subject of the Statement which I will shortly be making to members.

I n r e s ponse to (a), most major Planning applications require photographs to be taken. Usually these

would be taken by Planning Officers as a routine part of their work, occasionally photographs these are submitted by the applicant with the application. All details will be recorded in application files.

E n f o rc ement of Planning and Building Bye-Laws includes the taking of photographs as evidence by

Enforcement Officers as part of their case records and files of evidence required by the Police and Royal court processes.

T h e p rocedures used by the Historic Building team in their survey work will be explained in the

Committee my statement later in the sitting.

T h e re is no separate record of photographs or photographers.

( b ) There are approximately 4,000 properties on the Historic building register which, during recent years,

have s been reviewed comprehensively under the supervision of the Jersey Building Heritage Sub- Committee to ensure the register is reliable, accurate and up to date. As I have said in my answer to (a) my statement will set out the protocols which deal with photographs taken for this purpose.

( c ) The Deputy 's question relates to matters which will be dealt with in my statement. ( d ) It is not possible to be precise but some estimates can be given.

Approximately 1,500 - 2,000 Planning applications per year require photographs. Building surveyors may photograph any of their many checks of 700 building sites for Building Bye-law purposes if, exceptionally, they consider a record is needed. The department also deals each year with about 600-700 enforcement cases in response to complaints from States members and members of the public. It is self- evident that all these require photographs. Policy planning work also uses photographs. The department also has aerial photographs of the whole Island which has a low resolution superficial image of all properties - this is held as an overlay to the computerised Island map.

5. P h otographs may either be low techfilm' or digital images, the latter of which are held on the departmentalcomputer network, subject to the States data protocols."

Preparation of legislation relating to the confiscation of alcohol - question and answer (Tape No. 774)

The Deputy of St. Martin asked Deputy Alastair John Layzell of St. Brelade, President of the Home Affair Committee, the following question -

" O n 21st May this year the States, in adopting the proposition regarding Confiscation of alcohol: introduction of Legislation (P.46/2002) approved in principle the introduction of legislation to permit police officers to confiscate alcohol in certain circumstances and charged the Committee to prepare and present to the Assembly the necessary draft legislation to give effect to the proposals.

W  ill the President inform the Assembly of the steps the Committee has taken to comply with the States

decision and in particular -

( a ) how many times the matter has been discussed at Committee meetings?

( b ) when will briefing instructions be submitted to the Law Draftsman?

( c ) when does the Committee intend to present the draft legislation to the States for approval?"

The President of the Home Affairs Committee replied as follows -

" ( a) (b) (c)

T h e Committee discussed the issue only once, before issuing instructions to the Law Draftsman to prepare the

appropriate amendments to the Policing of Roads, Parks and Beaches Regulations. When these amendments are drafted the Committee will waste no time in bringing them to the States."

Driver theory tests - questions and answers (Tape No. 774)

The Deputy of St. John asked Deputy Alastair John Layzell of St. Brelade, President of the Home Affair Committee, the following questions -

" 1 . Would the President explain why it was necessary for the Department of Driver and Vehicle Standards to place a series of advertisements on theory testing for learner drivers, measuring 11" x 7", and containing no more than 60 words, in the Jersey Evening Post and give the cost of these advertisements?

2 . As electronic driver theory tests have been installed at an approximate cost of £30,000 and with an

average of 3,500 tests per annum, will the President advise whether or not the equipment has far greater capacity than required and would a different package have been more cost effective?"

The President of the Home Affairs Committee replied as follows -

" 1 . The one-off advertisement was placed because, despite the issuing of a press release explaining the new arrangements for the new IT-based theory test to be taken at the Department of Driver and Vehicle Standards, candidates continued to attend Highlands College. The advertisement cost £563.12.

2 .  The equipment was custom-built and does not have over capacity. Alternatives which were investigated

would have been much more expensive. By introducing this service the Home Affairs Committee continues to bear down on costs, saving £48,500 per year which was paid to Highlands College to administer the test and a Grade 5 post."

Ormer fishing - question and answer (Tape No. 774)

Deputy Gerard Clifford Lemmens Baudains of St. Clement, asked Senator Jean Amy Le Maistre, President of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee, the following question -

" D uring the recent debate on ormers, the Committee rapporteur stated that the population of these shellfish was greater around the Island's coast than compared with our offshore reefs. It is not unusual for the number of French people fishing for ormers at Les Minquiers to outnumber locals on large spring tides and often recently turned stones are visible at a depth that only divers could reach.

G  iven the above and the fact that divers could work this area just as easily, if not more so, at neap tides, will

the President -

( a ) give details of the number of occasions and the dates on which the Department has monitored the

Minquiers reef this year for ormer fishing?

( b ) state the number of occasions his officers have likewise monitored Jersey's coast?

( c ) state whether the Committee intends increasing monitoring of Les Ecréhous and Minquiers' reefs, given

its awareness that the reefs are under performing compared with Jersey's coast?

( d ) state the number of hours, on average, our fishery protection vessel spends at sea each week."

The President of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee replied as follows -

" ( a) Fishery Officers patrolled the area at Les Minquiers on 19 occasions, the dates are as follows -

7 t h J a n . 8 t h F e b . 8 t h Mar.

2 2 n d A p r . 2 3 rd A p r.  2 5th Apr.

2 7 t h A  p r. (W'end) 3rd May 7 t h May

2 0 t h M  a y 3 0 t h M a y  1 4th June

1 8 t h J u n e 2 5 t h J u n e  1 5th July

1 9 t h J u l y 1 st A  u g . 8 t h Sep. (W'end) 1 6 t h S e p .

( b ) There have been 28 similar patrols around Jersey's coast so far this year.

( c ) The Committee has a commitment to control and monitor the commercial fishery, worth some £8m per

annum to Jersey, in the full extent of Jersey Territorial Waters. The French fishing effort in Jersey waters is likely to land a similar value of catch and likewise has to be controlled and monitored. The Committee will continue to balance the control of the commercial industry with the interests of the leisure fishery, within the overall budget. The Committee is confident that the current level of monitoring and enforcement activity is adequate, but this issue will be kept under review with a view to increasing the level if this becomes necessary.

(d) In an answer to a similar question I stated, on 17th April 2002, that since its launch the main Fisheries Protection Vessel has been used an average 9.374 hours per week. Since April this average has not changed significantly."

Designation of the Odeon Cinema, Bath Street as a Site of Special Interest - questions and answers (Tape No. 774)

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier asked Senator Nigel Lewis Quérée, President of the Planning and Environment Committee, the following questions -

" 1 . To what extent does the President accept the findings of the report of the Halpern Partnership (August 2002) into the proposal to designate the Odeon building as a Site of Special Interest (SSI) and in particular -

(a ) t h e conclusions set out on page 50 of that report that -

th e c in e m a b u ilding does not have any special architectural features';

th e in t e ri o r h a s been completely altered';

th e O d e o n C in ema.. is of no historical interest'; and

th e O d e o n C in ema does not have special cultural interest attached to it"-';

( b ) there is no realistic alternative use when the cinema closes'.

T h e Odeon Cinema's designation would blight the site and its surrounding area'.

2 . W ould the President advise members -

(a ) w  h ether the Committee has given due consideration to securing the ongoing upkeep and maintenance

of the building, and if so, will these costs fall to the taxpayer?

( b ) whether the Committee accepts that the closure of the Odeon opens up the opportunity to co-ordinate

appropriate development in keeping with the Town Park project?

( c ) whether the Committee will now reconsider the proposal for SSI designation?" The President of the Planning and Environment Committee replied as follows -

" 1 . "The Odeon Cinema has been included in the Committee's Register of Historic Buildings since it was first published in 1992. The cinema, which was built in 1953, is the first significant post-war cinema to be built in the British Isles. The registration of the building, in the proposed SSI grade, was confirmed in June 2000 as part of a review of the Island's twentieth century buildings. The Review had the benefit of assistance from officers at English Heritage who specialise in the assessment of recent architecture.

 T h e Odeon organisation was advised of the registration of the building in March 2001 and has been in

dialogue with the Committee and its officers since that time. A request to remove the building from the Register was made to the Committee in October 2001 by representatives of the Odeon. This was rejected.

A subsequent appeal by the Odeon Limited to the Royal Court was later withdrawn.

O n 21st June 2002, on the instructions of the Committee, Notice was served on the Odeon Limited under

the provisions of Article 9 of the Island Planning (Jersey) Law 1964 as amended, stating its intention to designate the Odeon as an SSI by reason of its architectural, historical and cultural interest. At the request of the Odeon's legal advisers, the statutory minimum 28 day period for the submission of representations to the Committee was extended to 11 weeks to enable them to formulate a comprehensive response. Those representations, which were received on 9th September, run to 48 pages of legal argument, supported by 16 appendices. Officers are now assessing these submissions and will bring a report to the Committee when that assessment is complete. The statutory process that has been put in motion can only properly be brought to a conclusion when the Committee has considered the Odeon's representations and the officers' commentary on them. The question of designation, and the issues raised by the Deputy , will naturally be considered afresh as part of this process.

 I n these circumstances it would be premature to respond in detail to the Deputy 's question, which is

based wholly on the Odeon's representations.

 2 . (a) a d esignation would not alter the financial responsibility for the building's maintenance and

upkeep which remains with those who have a legal interest in the property;

(b ) w ould need to be subject of a policy decision; (c ) c onsideration of this matter is still in progress.

I s hould also advise the Deputy that the designation of any building as an SSI does not prevent its change of