States Minutes 20th January 2004

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 20th January 2004 at 10.15 a.m. under the Presidency of the Bailiff ,

Sir Philip Bailhache .

All members were present with the exception of –

S e nator Frank Harris on Walker – out of the Island

A l an Breckon, Deputy of St. Saviour – ill

P h ilip John Rondel, Deputy of St.  John – out of the Island

J o hn Benjamin Fox, Deputy of St.  Helier – out of the Island J e nnifer-Anne Bridge, Deputy of St.  Helier – excused

Prayers

Service of Dedication – thanks

The Bailiff , on behalf of all members, thanked the Dean of Jersey and all those involved in the organisation of the Service of Dedication, which had been held at the St.  Helier Parish Church prior to the meeting.

Tribute to the late Mr. Stanley John de la Haye, former member of the States

The Bailiff paid tribute to the late Mr. Stanley John de la Haye, former Connétable of St.  Martin. The States observed one minute's silence as a mark of respect.

Subordinate legislation tabled

The following enactments were laid before the States, namely –

Income Tax (Superannuation Funds) (Amendment No.  2) (Jersey) Order 2003. R&O 156/2003. Excise Duty (Relief and Drawback) (Amendment No.  2) (Jersey) Order 2003. R&O 157/2003. Weights and Measures (Testing Fees) (Jersey) Order  2003. R&O 158/2003. Motor Vehicle Registration (General Provisions) (Amendment No.  11) (Jersey) R&O 159/2003.

Order 2003.

Amendment (No.  28) to the Tariff of Harbour and Light Dues. R&O 162/2003.

Matters presented

The following matters were presented to the States –

Jersey Advisory and Conciliation Service: Report and financial statements 31st December 2002.

Presented by the Employment and Social Security Committee.

States' Expenditure: reduction in cost of public sector workforce (P.90/2003) – P.90/2003. comments. Com. Presented by the Finance and Economics Committee.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: measures to improve P.164/2003. implementation (P.164/2003) – amendment (P.164/2003  Amd.) – comments. Amd.Com. Presented by the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Disability Benefit System: reform (P.178/2003) – comments. P.178/2003. Presented by the Finance and Economics Committee. Com.

Bus Strategy: implementation (P.187/2003) – comments. P.187/2003. Presented by the Finance and Economics Committee. Com.

States' Expenditure: reduction in cost of public sector workforce (P.90/2003) – P.90/2003. Com. comments. (2) Policy and Resources Committee.

The following matter was presented on 16th December 2003 –

Welfare Benefit Rates: recommended rates from 1st January 2004. R.C.54/2003. Presented by the Employment and Social Security Committee.

The following matters were presented on 23rd December 2003 –

Fields  203,  204  (part)  and  252,  Rue  de  Jambart,  St.  Clement:  restriction  of P.152/2003. development (P.152/2003) – comment. Com. Presented by the Environment and Public Services Committee.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: measures to improve P.164/2003. implementation (P.164/2003) – comments. Com. Presented by the Policy and Resources Committee.

Shadow Public Accounts Committee – terms of reference (P.194/2003): comments. P.194/2003. Presented by the Policy and Resources Committee. Com.

The following matter was presented on 30th December 2003 –

Strategic Aims Report and Discussion Paper. R.C.55/2003. Presented by the Policy and Resources Committee.

The following matter was presented on 6th January 2004 –

Minimum Wage Recommendation. R.C.1/2004. Presented by the Employment and Social Security Committee.

The following matter was presented on 13th January 2004 –

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: Register of Reports P.196/2003. (P.196/2003) – comments. Com. Presented by the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

THE STATES ordered that the said reports be printed and distributed.

Matters noted – land transactions

THE STATES noted Acts of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 10th December 2003, and 8th January 2004, showing that, in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land, the Committee had approved –

1 0 th December 2003

( a ) as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the renewal of the lease to Miss

Charlotte  Victoria  Pinchard  of  the  property  known  as  Driftwood  Café  situated  at  Archirondel, St.  Catherine, St. Martin, for a period of nine years deemed to have commenced on 25th Decembe 2003, at a commencing annual rent of £8,000, increasing to £9,500 in the second year and to be subject to review on the third and sixth anniversary of the commencement of the lease in line with the Jersey Retail Price Index. All other terms and conditions were to remain the same as at the lease assignment date of 1st January 2002, with each party to be responsible for its own legal fees arising from the transaction;

( b ) as recommended by the Education, Sport and Culture Committee, the lease to Ms. Catherine Skinner of

the Massage Room (measuring approximately 50  square feet) on the first floor of the Les Quennevais Sports Centre, to allow her to undertake chiropractic services, for a period of three years from 1st June 2003, at an annual rent of £3,600, with annual rent reviews based on the Jersey Retail Price Index. The lessee was only to use the suite for the conduct of her chiropractic business and would be responsible for the payment of all rates, taxes and outgoings levied or charged in respect of the demised premises, as normally paid by a tenant. The lessee was also to be responsible for maintaining the unit in good repair;

8 t h January 2004

( c ) as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the entering into of a Deed of

Arrangement with Mr. Michael Graeme Moignard, owner of the property known as Seaside Cottage, St.  Lawrence, which adjoined the St.  Aubin's bay promenade, in order to clarify the southern boundary with the adjacent public land, on the basis that each party would be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( d ) as recommended by the Education, Sport and Culture Committee, the formalisation of a ground lease to

Jersey Telecom Group Limited (following the incorporatisation of the Telecommunications Board) for the siting of a Services Distribution Room at Snow Hill, St.  Helier for a period of 99 years from 25th March 2002 (the date when occupation of the site had been taken under an original agreement between the then Sport, Leisure and Recreation Committee and the Telecommunications Board) on the basis of the original heads of terms;

(e )  as  recommended  by  the  Housing  Committee,  the  granting  of  a  Contract  Wayleave  to  the  Jersey

Electricity  Company  Limited  for  the  mains  cable  route  (as  shown  on  Wayleave  Plan  No.  22K Ref/  P.856, dated 24th May 1990) through a roadway known as Brighton Road, St.  Helier, the wayleav to  be  free  of  charge,  with  each  party  to  be  responsible  for  its  own  legal  costs  arising  from  the transaction;

( f ) as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the renewal of the lease to Mr.

Peter Kubeck and Mrs. Brigitte Kubeck, née Waage, of the property known as Old Station Café, Millbrook, St.  Lawrence, for a period of nine years from 25th December 2003, at a commencing annual rent of £10,000 subject to review on the third and sixth anniversaries of the lease in line with the Jersey Retail Price Index, on the basis that all other terms and conditions would remain the same as the existing lease agreement and that each party would be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( g ) as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the renewal of the lease to Mr.

Darren Amy and Mrs. Emma Amy, née Machon, for the property known as Plemont Café, Plemont headland,

St. Ouen, for a period of nine years from 25th December 2003, at a commencing annual rent of£7,000, subject to increase to £9,000 in the second year and to review on the third and sixth anniversaries of the lease in line with the Jersey Retail Price Index, with the rent to be increased from commencement of the agreement and based upon the £9,000 rental value. All other terms and conditions were to remain as the existing lease agreement and each party was to be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( h ) as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the renewal of the lease to Mr.

James William Webster of the property known as Bouley Bay Bunker, Trinity , for a period of three years from 25th December 2003, (subject to determination early by either party giving six months notice in writing), for an annual rent of £450.14 subject to annual review in line with the Jersey Retail Price Index, on the basis that the tenant would only use the bunker for the purpose of storing diving equipment. Each party was to be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction and no deposits were to be paid;

( i)  as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the renewal of the lease to Mr.

Mark Bisson and Mrs. Faye Bisson, née Keaton, of the property known as First Tower Kiosk, First Tower, St.  Helier, for a period of nine years at a commencing annual rent of£9,000 subject to reviews on the third and sixth anniversaries of the lease in line with the Jersey Retail Price Index, on the basis that all other terms and conditions were to remain as the existing lease agreement and each party was to be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( j)  as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, an extension of the lease from Dr.

John Thomas Renouf of the property  known as Maison Petit Port, Rue de Petit Port, St.  Brelade (required in order to accommodate a senior planner with the Planning and Building Services Department until the end of his contract), from 31st March 2004, until 31st January 2005, on the same terms and conditions as the existing lease except in respect of annual rent which was to be increased in line with the Jersey Retail Price Index from 31st March 2004. Each party was to be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( k ) as recommended by the Health and Social Services Committee, the lease to Lloyds Pharmacy Limited of

Nos. 14-16 Burrard Street, St. Helier for a period of nine years from 25th December 2003, at an initial annual rent of £21,000 subject to three-yearly open market rent reviews, on the basis that the tenant would refurbish both the interior and the ground floor exterior of the premises to the reasonable satisfaction of the Committee subject to the receipt of any necessary planning consent. Each party was to be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( l )  as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the purchase from Mr.  Bruce

Hepburn de la Mare of land (measuring 60 square feet) forming part of the boundary formerly known as Merrydale, at the junction of Paddock End and La Rue à Don, Grouville (required in order to allow continuation of the footpath), for a consideration of £60 (representing a rate of £1 a square foot), subject to the Committee being responsible for both parties' reasonable legal costs arising from the transaction;

( m ) as recommend by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the renewal of the lease from Mr.

William Bertram Payn of the property known as No. 4 Beachside, La Rue du Pont, La Rocque, Grouville for a period deemed to have commenced on 1st September 2003, until 31st January 2006 (so as to coincide with the termination of leases in respect of Nos. 5 and 6 Beachside), at an annual rent of £17,836.50 (matching the rent for those other properties), with all other terms and conditions to remain as the existing lease agreement and on the basis that each party would be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

(n )  as recommended by the Harbours and Airport Committee, the renewal of  the  lease to J.H. Jaffé

Company Limited of the Old Shell House, La Folie, South Pier, St. Helier, for a period of three years from 31st October 2003, at an annual rent of £13,695.80, subject to annual increases in line with the Jersey Retail Price Index;

( o ) as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the grant of a vehicular right of

way to Mr. Paul Edwin   Vibert and Mrs. Nicola Daryl   Vibert , née Rimeur, over the section of the acces track known as "Le  Chemin du Douet" (which provided access to Fields Nos.  77 and 78, Portinfer, St.  Ouen and to an adjacent property known as"Les Chandelles") for the purposes of access to and egress from Field No. 79, St.  Ouen, subject to any planning consents (if necessary), and for the sol benefit of the property known as "Les Heches", Portinfer, St. Ouen, whilst it constituted a single dwelling. It had been agreed that a net fee of £500 would be payable when the purchase of the land required for a pumping station had been completed, although this sum would be reflected in the overall consideration paid for the site concerned. Other terms and conditions would remain as in the original report, approved by the Director of Property Services, dated 1st July 2003, and each party would be responsible for its own legal costs arising from the transaction;

( p ) as recommended by the Education, Sport and Culture Committee, the cession to the Parish of St.  Helier

of  an  area  of  land  (measuring  71.6  square  metres – as  shown  on  the  Public  Services  Department Drawing No.  3015/SK010803) in Field No.  1237, La Pouquelaye Playing Field, St.  Helier (required fo road widening purposes – the road being administered by the Parish) for a consideration of £10, on the basis that the Committee would meet both parties' reasonable legal fees arsing from the transaction, and that the works associated with the widening of the road and which would form part of the new school project would be undertaken at no cost to the Parish of St.  Helier;

( q ) as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the sale to Terence Doak Holdings

Limited of land (measuring approximately 485  square feet) situated immediately to the north of the property  formerly  known  as "Sands" but  now  referred  to  as  the  Discovery  Bay  Apartments  and constituting only that public-owned land which had been subject to extension works to the Discovery Bay  site.  It  was  noted  that  Terence  Doak  Holdings  Limited  had  completed  the  necessary accommodation works in order to reinstate the access track leading to l'Ouziere Slip in accordance with the requirements of the Public Services Department and that the company would pay the sum of £865 in respect of the land to be conveyed together with the Committee's reasonable legal costs arising from the transaction. The sale was to be subject to a restrictive covenant effectively preventing any further development of that area of land to be conveyed other than that allowed under Planning Permission 1943/X dated 24th August 1999. An area of concrete paving towards the western boundary of the site (which constituted a slight encroachment onto public land) would be permitted to remain as constructed although  in  the  event  of  redevelopment  the  adjacent  masonry  wall  would  be  realigned  upon  the boundary between the Discovery Bay site and the adjoining public land;

( r ) as recommended by the Environment and Public Services Committee, the lease to the Jersey Electricity

Company Limited of Electricity Sub-Station No.  388 situated in Caledonia Place, St.  Helier for a period of 99 years from the date of registration of the lease in the Royal Court, for a consideration of £1 a year payable in total at the commencement of the lease. In addition, the Company was also to be granted a wayleave across public land for the purpose of accessing the Sub-Station, and each party was to be responsible for its own legal fees arising from the transaction.

Matters lodged

The following matters were lodged "au Greffe" –

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: Register of Reports P.196/2003. (P.196/2003) – amendment. Amd. Presented by the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Speed Limits: revised policy. P.1/2004. Presented by the Environment and Public Services Committee.

Youth Custody for persons aged 12 and over. P.2/2004. Presented  by  the   Deputy  of  St.  Martin,  and  referred  to  the  Home  Affairs, Education, Sport and Culture, and Health and Social Services Committees.

Draft Shipping (SOLAS) (Jersey) Regulations 200-. P.3/2004. Presented by the Harbours and Airport Committee.

Draft Shipping (Load Line) (Jersey) Regulations 200-. P.4/2004. Presented by the Harbours and Airport Committee.

Public and Private Sector Housing Rental Subsidy Schemes: income disregard – P.5/2004. rescindment.

Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier, and referred to the Finance and Economics,

Employment and Social Security, and Housing Committees.

Machinery of Government: Votes of No Confidence in individual Ministers. P.6/2004. Senator S. Syvret, and referred to the Policy and Resources, and Privileges and

Procedures Committees.

The following matters were lodged on 16th December 2003 –

Draft Drainage (Jersey) Law 200-. P.193/2003. Presented by the Environment and Public Services Committee.

Shadow Public Accounts Committee: terms of reference. P.194/2003. Presented by the Finance and Economics Committee.

The following matters were lodged on 23rd December 2003 –

Shadow  Public  Accounts  Committee:  terms  of  reference  (P.194/2003) – P.194/2003. amendment. Amd. Presented by the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Motor Vehicle Registration (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Law 200-. P.195/2003. Presented by the Home Affairs Committee.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: Register of Reports. P.196/2003. Presented by Deputy P.N. Troy of St. Brelade.

The following matter was lodged on 6th January 2004 –

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: measures to improve P.164/2003. implementation (P.164/2003) – amendment. Amd. Presented by Senator S. Syvret.

Television Licence Fees: rebate for senior citizens – (P.149/2003) – withdrawn

THE STATES noted that, in accordance with Standing Order 22(3), Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St.  Helier had instructed the Greffier of the States to withdraw the proposition regarding television licence fees: rebate for senior citizens, (P.149/2003 lodged "au Greffe" on 4th November 2003).

Arrangement of public business for the present meeting

THE STATES agreed to defer consideration of the proposition regarding the Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: measures to improve implementation, (P.164/2003 lodged "au Greffe" on 18th November 2003), from the present meeting to the meeting to be held on 3rd February 2003.

THE STATES confirmed that the following matter lodged "au Greffe" would be considered at the present meeting –

Shadow Public Accounts Committee: terms of reference. P.194/2003. Lodged: 16th December 2003.

Finance and Economics Committee.

Shadow Public Accounts Committee: terms of reference (P.194/2003) – comments. P.194/2003. Presented: 23rd December 2003. Com. Policy and Resources Committee.

Shadow  Public  Accounts  Committee:  terms  of  reference  (P.194/2003) – P.194/2003. amendment. Amd. Lodged: 23rd December 2003.

Privileges  and Procedures Committee.

Arrangement of public business for the next meeting on 3rd February 2004

THE STATES adopted a proposition of Senator Terence Augustine Le  Sueur that the proposition of Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St.  Helier concerning the Social Security Fund: a new method of funding, (P.137/2003 lodged "au Greffe" on 7th October 2003), be not considered on 3rd February 2004.

Members present voted as follows –

"Pour" (25) Senators

Norman, Le  Sueur, Routier, M.   Vibert , Ozouf . Connétable s

St.  Martin,  St.  Ouen,  St.  Saviour,  St.  Brelade,  St.  Mary,  St. Peter,   Trinity ,  St.  Lawrence,  Grouv St.  John.

Deputies

Trinity , Huet(H), Le  Main(H), Dubras(L), Troy (B), Voisin(L), Ferguson(B), St.  Mary, Ryan(H), Taylo (C).

"Contre" (20) Senators

Le  Maistre, Syvret, Kinnard, Le  Claire, E.   Vibert . Connétable s

St.  Clement, St. Helier.

Deputies

Duhamel(S), St.  Martin, Baudains(C), Dorey(H), Scott   Warr en(S), Le  Hérissier(S), Martin(H), Souther (H), Bernstein(B), St.  Ouen, St.  Peter, Hilton(H), De Faye(H).

THE STATES confirmed that the following matters lodged "au Greffe" would be considered, in the following order, at the next meeting on 3rd February 2004 –

Fields  203,  204  (part)  and  252,  Rue  de  Jambart,  St.  Clement:  restriction  of P.152/2003. development.

Lodged: 4th November 2003.

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St.  Clement.

Fields  203,  204  (part)  and  252,  Rue  de  Jambart,  St.  Clement:  restriction  of P.152/2003. development (P.152/2003) – comment. Com. Presented: 23rd December 2003.

Environment and Public Services Committee.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: measures to improve P.164/2003. implementation.

Presented: 18th November 2003.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: measures to improve P.164/2003. implementation (P.164/2003) – comments. Com. Presented: 23rd December 2003.

Policy and Resources Committee.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: measures to improve P.164/2003. implementation (P.164/2003) – amendment. Amd. Lodged: 6th January 2004.

Senator S. Syvret.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: measures to improve P.164/2003. implementation (P.164/2003) – amendment (P.164/2003  Amd.) – comments. Amd.Com. Presented: 20th January 2004.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: Register of Reports. P.196/2003. Lodged: 23rd December 2003.

Deputy P.N. Troy of St.  Brelade.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: Register of Reports P.196/2003. (P.196/2003) – comments. Com. Presented: 13th January 2003.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Code of Practice on Public Access to Official Information: Register of Reports P.196/2003. (P.196/2003) – amendment. Amd. Lodged: 20th January 2004.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Burials and Exhumations (Jersey) Law 200-. P.170/2003. Lodged: 25th November 2003.

Legislation Committee.

Draft Motor Vehicle Registration (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Law 200-. P.195/2003. Lodged: 23rd December 2003.

Home Affairs Committee.

Matters relating to the Les Pas settlement – question and answer (Tape No. 886)

Senator Jean Amy Le  Maistre asked Senator Terence Augustine Le  Sueur, Vic-ePresident of the Policy and Resources Committee, the following question –

" I n a letter dated 2nd December 1993, from the then H.M. Attorney General to the Policy and Resources Committee relating to land reclamation schemes to the west of Albert Pier and to the south of La Collette, he advised –

I t would not in my opinion be prudent or sensible to continue with those schemes without taking a decision on one or other of the following options'.

T h ese options related either to litigate or to seek to compromise in order to resolve the claim to title.

W  ould the Vice-President advise whether this advice was considered by the Policy and Resources Committee

on each occasion prior to matters being brought to the States relating to the development of the Waterfront, and, if so, why it, therefore, did not feature in any of the projets brought before the States?"

The Vice-President of the Policy and Resources Committee replied as follows –

" T he minutes of the meetings of the Policy and Resources Committee from 1993 onwards do not indicate whether the letter dated 2nd December 1993, was considered on each occasion. However, there are two points that need to be made in response to this question –

( 1 ) The letter dated 2nd December 1993, formed part of the body of legal advice which had been supplied to

the Committee. It may have been considered at subsequent meetings, but if it was it would not have been necessary for this to have been recorded in the minutes on every occasion that the matter came up for discussion;

( 2 ) Senator Le  Maistre appears to have assumed that the Policy and Resources Committee should have given

specific consideration to the advice contained in this letter on each and every occasion before matters relating to the development of the St.  Helier Waterfront were brought to the States. This would have been most unusual, and the reasons for such an assumption are not explained.

T h e letter from the then H.M. Attorney General, like the letter from the then H.M. Solicitor General which

was also considered by the Committee in December 1993, was written to advise the Committee following receipt of advice from London counsel. It advised that the decision which had to be taken at that stage was whether to litigate or to seek to compromise.  Having considered all the advice which was before it, the Committee decided to litigate. The then Attorney General's letter did not advise that the decision, once taken, should be revisited on every occasion when matters arose relating to the Waterfront.

W  hat the Committee did do was remain open to the idea of settlement, and take fresh legal advice when

settlement was suggested.  As members were told during the Les Pas debate, that came to nothing, because Les Pas was so unrealistic and so intransigent in its settlement demands. What the Committee also did was act to protect the public's interest as far as possible short of settlement by acquiring by compulsory purchase a large part of the reclaimed area upon which development was to take place."

Matters relating to Les Pas settlement – question and answer (Tape No. 886)

Deputy Gerard Clifford Lemmens Baudains of St. Clement asked Senator Terence Augustine Le  Sueur, Vic-e President of the Policy and Resources Committee, the following question –

" W ould the Vice-President confirm that as the Jersey Electricity Company Limited's La Collette power station is located partially on established land and partially on reclaimed land that took place before 1934,

that the statement the President made during the Les Pas debate that the Island could lose  millions of pounds on

that element should the Les Pas claim succeed, was misleading?"

The Vice-President of the Policy and Resources Committee replied as follows –

" I am not aware of the President having made this statement during the States' debate on the proposed agreement with Les Pas Holdings, nor has a search of the transcripts of the debate been able to reveal such a statement. The President did say on more than one occasion during the debate that the Island could risk losing hundreds of  millions of pounds of public money if the claim from Les Holdings were successful, but this was in relation to the entire area covered by the claim, and not solely in relation to the land occupied by the La Collette Power Station. The potential cost to the public was also emphasised in paragraph 43 of the report and proposition of the Policy and Resources Committee (Fief de la Fosse: Proposed Agreement with Les Pas Holdings', P.117/2003).

T h e hatched area shown in Appendix 2 of the proposition reproduced as accurately as was possible on that

scale the plan that was attached to Les Pas Limited's supplementary statement of title showing the area claimed by Les Pas. On the Statement of Title plan, which is on a larger scale, it is possible to discern a very small irregularly-shaped area which protrudes into the centre of part of the Power Station buildings, and this particular area is not covered by the claim. This area did not show up on Appendix 2, possibly because it was too small to reproduce on that scale.

W  hether this small irregularly-shaped area is co-extensive with the area which Deputy Baudains believes to

be established land and land reclaimed before 1934, it is impossible to say, because he does not explain in his question what area he thinks is affected. In any event, the question of whether or not part of La Collette Power Station is on established land, or on land reclaimed before 1934, is not considered to be relevant to the point at issue for two reasons.

F i rstly, the advice to the States of the consequences of losing had to be based on a worst case scenario, in

other words, on the hypothesis that Les Pas was totally successful. If Les Pas was successful, it would be entitled to ownership of, (or compensation for, in the case of the unrelated area where its interest had been acquired by compulsory purchase) everything covered by its claim. Thus, even if the area which Deputy Baudains believes to be established land or land reclaimed before 1934 is larger that the area excluded by Les Pas from the claim, the fact is that if Les Pas was successful, it would get the area which it claimed, not the area which Deputy Baudains thought that it ought to have claimed.

S e condly, even if the areas are identical, the end result would be that Les Pas would own all the Power

Station, including land and buildings, save for the irregular area to which I have referred, protruding into part of one building. It would be entitled to exclude the Public from the land, and could if it wished call on the Public to remove all buildings and other apparatus from land in its ownership. The Public would own an irregularly shaped part of a larger building which could not be operated as a Power Station on its own.

I n other words, the result if Les Pas won what it claimed would be that the Public would not have a workable

Power Station, and on that basis the cost to the Island could indeed run into  millions of pounds."

Development of the Waterfront Hotel – question and answer (Tape No. 886)

Senator Edward Philip   Vibert asked Senator Terence Augustine Le  Sueur, Vic-ePresident of the Policy and Resources Committee, the following question –

" Would the Vice-President inform members of the latest position regarding the development of the

Waterfront Hotel project and whether the relevant contractor will commence work during January this year as he stated in answer to questions on 10th June 2003, and, if not, whether the Committee will be issuing a deadline for the commencement of work, failing which, the project will be subject to a new tender process?"

The Vice-President of the Policy and Resources Committee replied as follows –

"In response to this question, I should make it clear that on 10th June 2003, the President did not state in his answer to the question from Senator E. P.   Vibert that work on the Waterfront Hotel would commence in January 2004. The President did state on that occasion that the Waterfront Enterprise Board (WEB) was working actively with its private sector development partner to re-establish a funding structure which would allow the project to proceed, and that the target date at that time for the commencement of construction was January 2004. It was also stated that this commencement date was subject to the achievement of certain key steps, including agreement on the funding arrangements.

The Board of WEB continues to work closely with its hotel development partner to achieve a start to this important project. Considerable work is being done by the developer's team and valuable progress is being made, but funding has not yet been approved and so a start date cannot yet be confirmed. The Board of WEB considers that it currently remains in the interests of its shareholders not to abandon its partner at this time on what is an extremely difficult project. The Board has undertaken to keep the Policy and Resources Committee regularly updated on progress. At this stage, whilst discussions remain ongoing, neither the Board of WEB nor the Policy and Resources Committee have considered issuing a deadline."

Third party report and consultancy documents – question and answer (Tape No. 886)

Deputy Peter Nicholas Troy of St.  Breladeasked Senator Terence Augustine Le  Sueur, Vice-President of the Policy and Resources Committee, the following question –

" W ould the Vice-President inform members of the number of third party reports or consultancy documents commissioned in 2003 by States Committees and their Departments, costing in excess of £2,000, and the total cost to the public sector, showing a total for each Committee's expenditure?"

The Vice-President of the Policy and Resources Committee replied as follows –

" T he information that Deputy Troy has requested is not currently available and would take some time to compile. I have been able to obtain information in respect of the Policy and Resources Committee and its department, and can advise members that six reports costing in excess of £2,000 were commissioned from third parties or consultants during 2003, at a total combined cost to the Committee of £47,446.

If the Deputy wishes to establish the total cost and number of reports or consultancy documents

commissioned in 2003 by all States Committees and departments, then this information can be obtained. However, I should point out that the collection and analysis of this information could be a very time- consuming task for other States departments, and will involve the allocation of a significant amount of staff time.

I n seeking this information from other Committees, it would be necessary to be more specific as to what is

meant by a third party' or consultant'. For example, would such a definition include medical consultants, Her Majesty's Inspectors, and education advisers? Due account would also need to be made for reports that were commissioned in 2003 and which have not yet been completed, and presumably in these cases it would be considered sufficient to provide an estimate of the final cost."

Maintenance of the commemorative plaque at La Rocque – question and answer (Tape No. 886)

Deputy Gerard Clifford Lemmens Baudains of St.  Clement asked Deputy Maurice François Dubras, President of the Environment and Public Services Committee, the following question –

" W ould the President confirm that the Environment and Public Services Committee is responsible for the maintenance of the plaque at La Rocque commemorating persons who lost their lives as a result of enemy action during the Second World War, and, if so, would he advise when it will be restored given its current poor state of condition?"

The President of the Environment and Public Services Committee replied as follows –

" T he Committee is responsible for the maintenance of the plaque at La Rocque. The manufacture of a replacement marble surround is currently in hand. The fixing of the new surround will be followed by refurbishment of the lettering. It is expected that all works will be completed within two weeks."

2005 States' revenue expenditure – question and answer (Tape No. 886)

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier asked Senator Terence Augustine Le Sueur, President of th Finance and Economics Committee, the following question –

" T he President recently announced that the Committee would be seeking a further £20 million reduction in States' revenue expenditure in 2005. Would the President assure members that he will seek to prevent further hardship to those least well off in the community by protecting both the Social Security Benefits system and housing rental abatement/rebate schemes?"

The President of the Finance and Economics Committee replied as follows –

" T he Finance and Economics Committee considers that the forecast deficits in States' finances are best addressed by a package of measures that includes significant reductions in expenditure. Indeed, the public made it abundantly clear during the 2004 Budget debate that in the first instance they expect deficits to be addressed through cuts in spending rather than increases in taxes.

A t present the Committee is merely proposing a target of a £20 million reduction in budgeted expenditure. It

will be for Committee Presidents, and ultimately for States members, to decide whether to accept this target and if so where cuts will be made, and I think I can speak for most, if not all, States members in confirming that we shall endeavour to prevent hardship to the least well off. However nobody should underestimate the magnitude of the challenge we all face."

Fort Regent rents – question and answer (Tape No. 886)

Senator Edward  Philip   Vibert  asked  Senator Michael  Edward   Vibert ,  President of  the Education,  Sport  and Culture Committee, the following question –

" ( a) Would the President inform members of the revenue increase the Committee is expecting by raising rents to sporting clubs, classes and users of Fort Regent by as much as 50% in some cases?

( b ) Would the President explain the reasons for the level of these increases and whether the Committee

considered the effect that such increases might have on encouraging clubs and organisations to provide leisure and fitness opportunities for the public? and,

( c ) Is the President willing to reconsider the decision to raise rents in this way?" The President of the Education, Sport and Culture Committee replied as follows –

" ( a) The Education, Sport and Culture Committee has increased charges in 2004 by an average of 6% in line with its submission made in the Fundamental Spending Review for 2004 which was agreed by the Assembly in the 2004 budget. It is estimated that this will generate an extra £69,000 at Fort Regent during 2004 from all charges levied. There are three rooms which have had an increase of 50% in rental. The extra income which will be generated from these rooms is estimated to be approximately £6,000 per annum.

( b ) The activity rooms which have been subject to a 50% increase will now be charged at £15 per hour

rather than £10 per hour. These rooms are hired by various clubs and associations and the reason for the increase

is to bring them more into line with rental rates for similar rooms, both within Fort Regent, and also with other facilities administered by the Education Sport and Culture Committee. The Committee did not consider that increase in charges per room would discourage their use. The Education, Sport and Culture Committee continues to support and encourage clubs and associations to provide activities for members of the public and I would wish to place on record my gratitude for the large number of clubs and associations which do this so well in the Island, and, in so doing, provide numerous opportunities for participation and development.

( c ) The Committee has no intention to review the decision to raise the rents but if there is any evidence of

undue hardship by any club I would ask them to contact the officers at the Education, Sport and Culture Department."

Evictions and the income disregard allowance for invalidity and disability benefits – questions and answers (Tape No. 886)

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St.  Helier asked Deputy Terence John Le  Main, President of the Housing Committee, the following questions –

" 1 . The President recently announced a number of evictions carried out by the Housing Committee over recent months. Will the President inform members  of –

 ( a ) the total number of evictions that are currently being pursued?

 ( b ) the number of families evicted in recent months?

 ( c ) the number of evictions for reasons of anti-social behaviour on the part of tenants? and,  ( d ) the number of evictions for rent arrears?

2 .  Will the President inform members –

(a ) h o w many tenants have been affected by the change to the income disregard allowance for invalidity

and disability benefits contained in P.74/2003? and,

(b ) h o w many of these tenants saw rises in their rent payable of – (i )  gr eater than 10%?

(i i) g reater than 25%?"

The President of the Housing Committee replied as follows –

" 1 . (a)  I n the six months ending 31st December 2003, the Committee authorised the Department to take action through the Court, if necessary, to evict a total of 30 tenants. 25 of these cases primarily involved rent arrears but, for some, anti-social behaviour was also a factor considered by the Committee. One case involved purely anti-social behaviour and the remaining 4 were tenants refusing to transfer to suitable alternative accommodation.

O u t o f th e 3 0 cases, 11 are still being pursued, 4 have moved to the private sector, 4  transferred to

alternative Committee accommodation, 5 have paid rent arrears in full and 6 have made arrangements for repayments of arrears which has resulted in the eviction proceedings being halted.