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THE STATES assembled on Thursday, 22nd July 2004 at 9.30 a.m. under
the Presidency of the Bailiff ,
Sir Philip Bailhache .
All members were present with the exception of –
S e nator Paul Vincent Francis Le Claire – out of the Island
S e nator Edward Philip Vibert – out of the Island
J o hn Baudains Germain, Connétable of St. Martin – ill
T e rence John Le Main, Deputy of St. Helier– out of the Island
C e lia Joyce Scott Warr en, Deputy of St. Saviour– out of the Island J u dith Ann Martin, Deputy of St. Helier – absent
J u lian Alexander Bernstein, Deputy of St. Brelade – out of the Island J a mes Gordon Reed, Deputy of St. Ouen – absent
P a trick John Ryan, Deputy of St. Helier – out of the Island
Prayers
Public and political access to economic models – P.121/2004 Comments – P.121/2004.Com.
THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of Senator Stuart Syvret concerning public and political access to economic models, and, following discussion, granted leave to Senator Syvret to withdraw paragraph (b) of the proposition seeking asking them to agree that the Finance and Economics Committee be required to make available for public access at the Public Library computers equipped with any electronic models, produced at public expense.
THE STATES, adopting paragraph (a) of the proposition, agreed thatthe Finance and Economics Committee be required to make available to any States member who so requested a copy of any electronic models, produced at public expense, designed to assist in developing economic or taxation policies.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 35 CONTRE: 3 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator J.A. Le Maistre Senator S. Syvret
Senator F.H. Walker Senator W. Kinnard
Senator T.A. Le Sueur Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E. Vibert Senator R.J. Shenton Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence
Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Deputy of St. Mary Deputy G.W.J de Faye (H)
Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St. Martin Deputy of St. John
Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy P.N. Troy (B)
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy J-A. Bridge (H)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of Grouville
Deputy of St. Peter
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)
Change in Presidency
The Bailiff retired from the Chair during consideration of the proposition of Senator Stuart Syvret concerning public and political access to economic models, (P.121/2004 lodged "au Greffe" on 22nd June 2004), and the meeting continued under the presidency of Mr. Michael Nelson de la Haye, Greffier of the States.
Minimum Wage: proposed rates – P.130/2004 Amendment – P.130/2004.Amd.
THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of the Employment and Social Security Committee concerning minimum wage: proposed rates, and of an amendment presented by Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier, that paragraph (c) be deleted, which amendment was subsequently lodged "au Greffe" by the Deputy of St. John.
Senator Stuart Syvret and Senator Frank Harris on Walker sought leave for a ruling from the Bailiff regarding the need for any member to declare a financial interest if engaged in a private business in which the proposed rates of minimum wage might apply to employees engaged by that business. The Bailiff ruled, under Standing Order 44 (1), that any such members should not be construed as having a direct pecuniary interest which was immediate and personal and not merely of a general and remote character, and accordingly such members had no need to declare a financial interest.
THE STATES, following further discussion, and in accordance with its decision of 26th May 2004, regarding the closure of a debate, adopted a proposition of the Deputy of St. John that the question be now put.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 24 CONTRE: 13 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator J.A. Le Maistre Senator S. Syvret Senator W. Kinnard Senator F.H. Walker Senator T.A. Le Sueur Senator P.F. Routier Senator R.J. Shenton Senator M.E. Vibert Connétable of St. Ouen Senator P.F.C. Ozouf
Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity
Deputy of St. Martin Deputy of St. John
Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Helier Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy P.N. Troy (B)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy G.W.J de Faye (H)
Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C)
Deputy J.L. Dorey (H)
Deputy J.B. Fox (H) Deputy J-A. Bridge (H)
Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of St. Peter Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)
THE STATES rejected paragraph (c) of the proposition requesting them to approve the intention of the Employment and Social Security Committee to make Orders under Article 16(3) of the Employment (Jersey) Law 2003, fixing an hourly youth minimum wage rate of £3.82 for an employee between 16 and 18 years of age, i.e. between school leaving age and up to, but not including, age 18.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 15 CONTRE: 25 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator J.A. Le Maistre Senator F.H. Walker Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E. Vibert Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Deputy of St. John
Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy P.N. Troy (B) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St. Mary
Senator S. Syvret
Senator W. Kinnard Senator T.A. Le Sueur Senator R.J. Shenton Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St. Martin
Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C)
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy J-A. Bridge (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of Grouville
Deputy of St. Peter
Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy G.W.J de Faye (H)
THE STATES adopted paragraph (b) of the proposition requesting them to approve the intention of the Employment and Social Security Committee to make Orders under Article 16(3) of the Employment (Jersey) Law 2003, fixing an hourly trainee minimum wage rate of £3.82 for an employee of any age who was undertaking accredited training for a maximum period of one year, when in a new job, with a new employer, by written agreement.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 38 CONTRE: 2 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator J.A. Le Maistre Senator S. Syvret
Senator F.H. Walker Senator T.A. Le Sueur Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E. Vibert Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator R.J. Shenton Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St. Martin Deputy of St. John
Senator W. Kinnard Deputy J-A. Bridge (H)
Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C)
Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy P.N. Troy (B)
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H)
Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of Grouville Deputy of St. Peter Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy G.W.J de Faye (H)
THE STATES adopted paragraph (a) of the proposition, amended as a consequence of having rejected paragraph (c), requesting them to approve the intention of the Employment and Social Security Committee to make Orders under Article 16(3) of the Employment (Jersey) Law 2003, fixing an hourly minimum wage rate of £5.08, to apply to all employees over school leaving age, except when the trainee rate was paid.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 40 CONTRE: 0 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator J.A. Le Maistre Senator S. Syvret
Senator F.H. Walker Senator W. Kinnard Senator T.A. Le Sueur Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E. Vibert Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator R.J. Shenton Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St. Martin Deputy of St. John Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C)
Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy P.N. Troy (B)
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy J-A. Bridge (H)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H)
Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of Grouville Deputy of St. Peter Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy G.W.J de Faye (H)
Deputy Lyndon John Farnham of St. Saviour declared an interest and withdrew from the Chamber during consideration of the proposition.
Change in Presidency
The Bailiff returned to the Chamber during consideration of the proposition of the Employment and Social Security Committee concerning minimum wage: proposed rates, (P.130/2004 lodged "au Greffe" on 6th July 2004), and the meeting continued under his presidency.
Draft Employment (Minimum Wage) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P .131/2004
THE STATES, in pursuance of Articles 17, 18 and 104 of the Employment (Jersey) Law 2003, made Regulations entitled Employment (Minimum Wage) (Jersey) Regulations 2004.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 36 CONTRE: 0 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator J.A. Le Maistre Senator L. Norman Senator F.H. Walker Senator W. Kinnard Senator T.A. Le Sueur Senator P.F. Routier Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator R.J. Shenton Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy of St. Martin Deputy of St. John
Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C)
Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy P.N. Troy (B)
Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J-A. Bridge (H)
Deputy G.P. Southern (H)
Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of St. Peter Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy G.W.J de Faye (H)
U.N. convention on Wetlands of International Importance: designation of offshore reefs – P.103/2004 THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of the Environment and Public Services Committee concerning the U.N. convention on Wetlands of International Importance: designation of offshore reefs, and, after discussion, the Bailiff , in accordance with Standing Order 26(1), disallowed a proposition of the Deputy of Trinity that the matter be referred back to the Environment and Public Services Committee. Following further discussion, the Connétable of Grouville sought leave to propose that the question be now put. The Bailiff ruled that, in accordance with a decision of the States of 26th May 2004, regarding the closure of a debate, the proposition of the Deputy of St. John was an infringement of the rights of the minority, and the proposition was disallowed.
THE STATES, after further discussion, and in accordance with its decision of 26th May 2004, regarding the closure of a debate, adopted a proposition of Senator Jean Amy Le Maistre that the question be now put.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 27 CONTRE: 7 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator J.A. Le Maistre Senator L. Norman Senator F.H. Walker Senator W. Kinnard Senator P.F. Routier Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy of St. Martin
Senator S. Syvret
Senator M.E. Vibert Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St. John Deputy G.W.J de Faye (H)
Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy P.N. Troy (B)
Deputy L.J. Farnham (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of St. Peter
THE STATES adopting a proposition of the Environment and Public Services Committee –
( a ) a g reed that the areas of the shaded area on the Map attached to the proposition should be
designated as Wetlands of International Importance under the terms of the Convention on Wetlands of International Importance, as amended, ("the Ramsar Convention"), which applied to Jersey; and authorised the Greffier of the States to sign the said Map;
(b ) ch a rged the Environment and Public Services Committee to prepare a formal application under the
terms of the Ramsar Convention for the designation of the areas and requested the Bailiff to transmit the application formally to the Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs through the official channels; and,
(c ) c h arged those Committees of the States with administrative responsibilities for activities taking
place in the area to be designated, (including the Economic Development, Environment and Public Services and Harbours and Airport Committees), to conduct their activities in that area in compliance with the conservation principles of the Ramsar Convention.
Members present voted as follows –
POUR: 33 CONTRE: 3 ABSTAIN: 0
Senator J.A. Le Maistre Senator S. Syvret
Senator L. Norman Senator F.H. Walker Senator W. Kinnard Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E. Vibert Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity
Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St. Martin
Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy of St. John Deputy G.W.J de Faye (H)
Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy P.N. Troy (B)
Deputy L.J. Farnham (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)
Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St. Mary
Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of St. Peter Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)
THE STATES rose at 1.45 p.m.
M.N. DE LA HAYE Greffier of the States.