States Minutes 24th May 2005

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 24th May 2005, at 9.30 a.m. under

the Presidency of the Bailiff ,

Sir Philip Bailhache .

His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor,

Air Chief Marshal Sir John Cheshire, K.B.E., C.B., was present.

All members were present with the exception of –

S enat or Wendy Kinnard – out of the Island

S enat or Paul Vincent Francis Le Claire – out of the Island

J ohn L e Sueur Gallichan, Connétable of Trinity – out of the Island A l an Breckon, Deputy of St. Saviour – ill

Mi chael Andrew Taylor , Deputy of St. Clement – out of the Island.

Prayers

Tribute to Mr. Graham Huelin, the late former member of the States

THE STATES observed one minute's silence as a mark of respect following the Bailiff 's tribute to the late Mr. Graham Huelin,former Deputy of St. Brelade.

The Very Reverend Dean of Jersey – retirement

The Bailiff , on behalf of all members, paid tribute to the service which the Very Reverend Canon John N. Seaford, B.A., Dip.Theol., had given to the Island and the States during his term of office as the Dean of Jersey and wished him, and Mrs. Seaford, a long and happy retirement.

Subordinate legislation tabled

The following enactment was laid before the States, namely –

Civil Service Administration (Salaries) (Amendment No. 25) (Jersey) Order 2005. R&O 40/2005. Policy and Resources Committee.

Matter presented

The following matter was presented to the States –

The Use of Planning Agreements/Obligations. R.C.5/2005. Presented by the Environment and Public Services Committee.

THE STATES ordered that the said report be printed and distributed. Matters noted – acceptance of tender

THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 14th April 2005, showing that, in pursuance of Rule 5 of the Public Finances (General) (Jersey) Rules 1967, as amended, the Committee had noted that the Environment and Public Services Committee had accepted a negotiated tender procurement process with Concrete Repairs Limited (CRL) for the contract for the refurbishment of Sand Street multi-storey car park, St. Helier.

Matters lodged

The following matters were lodged "au Greffe" –

Jersey Employment Tribunal: appointment of members. P.97/2005. Presented by the Employment and Social Security Committee.

Draft States of Jersey (Amendment No. 2) Law 200-. P.98/2005. Presented by the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Employment of States of Jersey Employees (Jersey) Law 200-. P.99/2005. Presented by the Policy and Resources Committee.

Jersey Law Commission: appointment of Commissioners.- P.76/2005 – withdrawn

THE STATES noted that, in accordance with Standing Order 22(3), the President of the Legislation Committee had instructed the Greffier of the States to withdraw the proposition regarding the Jersey Law Commission: appointment  of  Commissioners.  (P.76/2005  lodged "au  Greffe" on  19th  April  2005),  and  set  down  for consideration at the present meeting.

Arrangement of public business for the present meeting

THE STATES granted leave to the President of the Policy and Resources Committee to defer consideration of the following matter set down for consideration at the present meeting, until a later date –

Commission Amicale: appointment of President and Chairman. P.89/2005. Lodged: 26th April 2004.

Policy and Resources Committee.

Arrangement of public business for the next meeting on 7th June 2005

THE STATES confirmed that the following matters lodged "au Greffe" would be considered at the next meeting on7th June 2005 –

Draft States of Jersey (Amendment) Law 200-. P.83/2005. Lodged: 26th April 2005. (re-issue) Policy and Resources Committee.

Draft States of Jersey (Amendment) Law 200- (P.83/2005): amendment. P.83/2005. Amd. Lodged: 10th May 2005. (re-issue) Senator S. Syvret.

Draft Employers' Liability (Compulsory Insurance) (Exemption) (Amendment P.84/2005. No. 2) (Jersey) Regulations 200-.

Lodged: 26th April 2005.

Employment and Social Security Committee.

Draft Employers' Liability (Compulsory Insurance) (General) (Amendment No. 2) P.85/2005. (Jersey) Regulations 200-.

Lodged: 26th April 2005.

Employment and Social Security Committee.

States of Jersey Property Holdings: establishment. P.93/2005.

Lodged: 10th May 2005.

Policy and Resources Committee.

Licensing Law: purchase of alcohol for persons under 18 – (P.95/2004) – withdrawn

THE STATES noted that, in pursuance of Standing Order 17(6), the following matter lodged "au Greffe" was deemed to have been withdrawn –

Licensing Law: purchase of alcohol for persons under 18. P.95/2004. Lodged: 18th May 2004.

Deputy of St. Martin.

Proposed capital project for the Harbours – question and answer

The Deputy of St. John tabled the following written question of Senator Leonard Norman, President of the Harbours and Airport Committee –

" R ecently the President unveiled a £14 million capital programme for the Harbours; would he explain to members in detail how the money to service the £14 million will be raised, and, in particular, whether such funding will be raised by increased harbour and landing dues or above the cost of living charges to existing harbour users/tenants?"

The President of the Harbours and Airport Committee tabled the following written answer –

" J ersey Harbours intend to raise the necessary capital in the form of a commercial loan underwritten by pre-letting agreements with the prospective Elizabeth Harbour warehouse tenants. The funding of the project is based on the open market sale and rental valuations freely entered into on new leases for new and existing property by the prospective tenants, which will be achieved after negotiation; Harbour Dues do not contribute towards the funding of this project. The final rents have not yet been agreed and are subject to further commercially sensitive negotiations. Capital and interest payments are expected to be covered fully over the period of the borrowing by the warehouse rents and not by any above cost of living increases to Harbour Dues or other income streams.

T he f  inancial package has had in principle approval from the Finance and Economic Committee, subject to

approval of the final business case by its Capital Projects Sub-Committee, planning in principle and final successful negotiations with prospective tenants.

T he  projected returns show the scheme to be viable both on a cash flow and investment appraisal basis,

creating significant value for Jersey Harbours and the Island."

Last report of H.M. Chief Inspector of Prisons – question and answer

Deputy Jennifer-Anne Bridge of St. Helier tabled the following written question of Senator Wendy Kinnard, President of the Home Affairs Committee –

" G iven the imminent arrival of H.M. Chief Inspector of Prisons, (HMCIP), would the President give a full and detailed account of all the recommendations from the last HMCIP visit, listing the recommendation as originally written and noting alongside when it was implemented or, if not implemented, the reason for lack of implementation or partial implementation?"

The President of the Home Affairs Committee tabled the following written answer –

" I attach a summary showing progress on all 147 recommendations from the last HMCIP visit.

To the Home Affairs Committee Reception

The second phase of

redevelopment due for completion Improved reception area for women in 2006 will provide an

and vulnerable male prisoners should opportunity to re-assess the use of be provided to give sufficient space all accommodation across the

for all parts of the process together establishment. There remains a with suitable strip searching, catering commitment to improve the living

1. and bathroom facilities. (2.07) Not achieved conditions for women prisoners. This can be considered following the next phase of redevelopment in 2006 but it is unlikely to be achieved for all discrete areas of the prison until further

Discrete Health Care rooms should development work is undertaken, be provided in both the Women's and currently scheduled to begin in

2. Vulnerable Prisoners' Unit. (2.10) Not achieved 2009.

First Night

All prison staff should wear

identification that can be clearly seen Prison Officers wear numbered

3. and read. (2.25) 2003 insignia

Prisoners' Legal Rights

We suggest that all time served for This is a matter for the law

the current offence be allowed to officers (it refers to time spent in count towards a prisoner's sentence police custody prior to arriving at

4. for that offence. (2.43) Not achieved the prison).

We do not have a secure library

staffed by professional staff (only

prisoners) and experience has

shown that such books would be Access to a library of current legal stolen. Prisoners requesting legal textbooks should be ensured in all information will be provided with

5. relevant cases. (2.05) it on an individual basis. Movement of Prisoners to and

from Court and Inter-Prison

Transfers

Women should be transported

separately from men and young male A matter for the States of Jersey prisoners separately from adults. Police who perform the

6. (2.57) Not achieved transportation function. Accommodation and Facilities

Female Residential Unit

The speed of response at night

will depend on the number of

prisoners across the prison who

request access at the same time

and the availability of staff due to

other commitments. The situation

will be improved significantly

when a greater proportion of the Speedy access should be given to available accommodation has in- sanitation during all periods when cell sanitation following prisoners are locked in their cells. Partially completion of the next phase of

7. (3.07) Achieved redevelopment in 2006.

The second phase of

redevelopment due for completion

in 2006 will provide an

opportunity to re-assess the use of The numbers held in the women's all accommodation across the dormitory should be reduced by the establishment. There remains a provision of more double and single commitment to improve the living

8. cell accommodation. (3.08) Not achieved conditions for women prisoners. The second phase of redevelopment due for completion Separately located segregation cells in 2006 will provide an

should be used for men and women. opportunity to re-assess the use of The reportedly unused padded cell all accommodation across the should be converted into normal establishment. There remains a accommodation as soon as possible. commitment to improve the living

9. (3.12) Not achieved conditions for women prisoners. The second phase of redevelopment due for completion in 2006 will provide an opportunity to re-assess the use of all accommodation across the establishment. There remains a Alternative (even if temporary) commitment to improve the living accommodation should be found for conditions for women prisoners, the accommodation of disruptive, this will include provision to anti-social or mentally ill women. segregate female prisoners

11. (3.13) Not achieved separately from men.

The second phase of

redevelopment due for completion

in 2006 will provide an

opportunity to re-assess the use of

all accommodation across the

establishment. There remains a

commitment to improve the living

conditions for women prisoners A quiet place should be provided for including the provision of prisoners to have time out of the activity' space for different

11. general activities of the wing. (3.14) Not achieved activities.

The second phase of

redevelopment due for completion

in 2006 will provide an

opportunity to re-assess the use of Alternative and ligature free all accommodation across the accommodation should be provided establishment. There remains a for disruptive and mentally ill commitment to improve the living prisoners and we recommend conditions for women prisoners examination of the Safer Cell although the ability to provide Project' established by the Prison ligature-free accommodation will

12. Service of England and Wales. (3.15) Not achieved depend on available resources. The second phase of redevelopment due for completion in 2006 will provide an opportunity to re-assess the use of all accommodation across the

A Dining/Kitchen Area should be establishment. There remains a provided to allow all prisoners to commitment to improve the living dine out, in a smoke free conditions for women prisoners environment and other space including the provision of provided for association throughout activity' space for different

13. the day. (3.17) Not achieved activities.

The second phase of redevelopment due for completion in 2006 will provide an opportunity to re-assess the use of all accommodation across the establishment. There remains a

commitment to improve the living More space should be provided so conditions for women prisoners that a range of activities can take including the provision of

place at the same time, if necessary. activity' space for different

14. (3.18) Not achieved activities.

The second phase of

redevelopment due for completion

in 2006 will provide an

opportunity to re-assess the use of

all accommodation across the Additional building should also establishment. There remains a provide adequate interview rooms, commitment to improve the living launderette, clothing storage space, conditions for women prisoners, cleaning equipment storage, general resource constraints may limit the storerooms and medical treatment amount of additional facilities we

15. rooms. (3.19) Not achieved are able to provide.

A discrete new unit should be built The second phase of

within the grounds of the redevelopment due for completion establishment to house women in 2006 will provide an

requiring closed prison conditions, so opportunity to re-assess the use of that economies of scale can be all accommodation across the maintained in respect of shared establishment. There remains a facilities and services. Cellular commitment to improve the living accommodation should be varied to conditions for women prisoners meet the needs of different women, but the decision has been taken and the wing should contain more that it is better value for money to association space and adequate reconfigure part of the existing interview rooms, storerooms and accommodation than build a new

16. treatment rooms. (3.23) Not achieved unit.

The second phase of redevelopment due for completion in 2006 will provide an opportunity to re-assess the use of all accommodation across the establishment including the

A discrete Reception Area for provision of a discrete area for the

17. women should be provided. (3.24) Not achieved reception of women prisoners. Young Offender Unit

Accommodation

The prison should continue to pursue

a solution to overnight lavatory

access, including the option of fitting There are currently no funds

18. electronic unlocking system. (3.31) Not achieved available to pursue such an option. Hygiene

More baths should be installed,

particularly on the Female Unit. There are currently no funds

19. (3.55) Not achieved available to pursue such an option. Substance Use

Work continues with a number of The Community Alcohol and Drug agencies including the Drug and Service should be enlisted to conduct Alcohol Agency and colleagues

10.20. a needs analysis in the prison. (4.08) 2003 from the Health Department.

To describe the current drugs testing The policy will be reconsidered at La Moye asvoluntary' is patently once the new Prison Rules are in inappropriate and the testing policy place to permit Mandatory Drugs

21. should be reviewed. (4.12) Not achieved Testing.

There should be a review of the way in which the testing for drugs at

La Moye is carried out, both in terms

of its application and its processes. Staff are trained in taking oral

22. (4.13) 2003 samples.

Suicide Prevention and Self-Harm

Reduction

It had not proved possible to install a

dedicated, accessible Samaritan's

telephone line. This fundamental life-

saving device should be further

explored and its installation

23. supported. (4.33) 2003

Complaints Procedures:

Applications, Requests and

Complaints, Access to the Board of

Visitors

A clear independent avenue of

complaint should be set up with the

appointment of a Prisons' Considered but

24. Ombudsman. (4.39) not pursued Decision taken not to proceed. There should be an independent

appeal process, which should be

explained to prisoners, and appeals

should always be dealt with Considered but

25. promptly. (4.41) not pursued Decision taken not to proceed. Security

Accommodation of a lower security

category should be provided outside

the main prison perimeter where

carefully selected prisoners could There are currently no funds to serve their sentences, in most cases pursue such an option although working in the community either as proposals are being drawn up for

26. volunteers or in paid work. (5.04) Not achieved consideration at a later date.

The second phase of

Alternative accommodation should redevelopment due for completion be sought for women prisoners in 2006 will provide an

taking into consideration all possible opportunity to re-assess the use of options, including the erection of all accommodation across the purpose built units inside the establishment. There remains a perimeter or outside the perimeter, or commitment to improve the living

27. a combination of both. (5.06) Not achieved conditions for women prisoners. Use of Force

The authorisation form for the use of

special cells should be amended to

include reasons for the use of that

28. accommodation. (5.14) 2003

The second phase of

redevelopment due for completion There have been occasions when in 2006 will provide an

female prisoners had been located in opportunity to re-assess the use of the Segregation Unit of the male part all accommodation across the

of the prison. Facilities for disruptive establishment. There remains a prisoners in the Female Unit were commitment to improve the living virtually non-existant. This should be conditions for women prisoners, taken into account when considering this will include the provision to the future needs of La Moye and its segregate female prisoners

29. population. (5.15) separately from men.

Prisoner Disciplinary Procedures

This proposition was rejected as

part of the review of Prison Rules

but may be revisited following An independent channel of appeal fresh considerations as part of against adjudications should be ensuring new Rules are Human

10.30. introduced. (5.19) Not achieved Rights compliant.

Vulnerable Prisoner Unit

(including provision for sex

offenders)

Peculiarities associated with prison in Jersey mean this is unlikely to succeed in totally eliminating the need for a Vulnerable Prisoner Unit, although following improved

We recommend that reference be staffing levels and when new made to HMP Durham which has accommodation is available (in successfully introduced the principle 2006), the policy will be reviewed of a Non-Collusive Regime' as a with the aim of reducing the means of dispensing with a number of prisoners held in the

31. Vulnerable Prisoner Unit. (5.25) Not achieved VPU.

The difficulties of keeping remand

and convicted prisoners safe in a

single prison institution, in an island

community, were noted and in our The small overall size of the view, some of these difficulties might prison would make this

be reduced by keeping remand and recommendation very costly to convicted prisoners separately. We Considered but bring in by reducing the flexibility

32. recommend accordingly. (5.26) not pursued of use of the accommodation. Child Protection

The review of child protection should

develop a system of vulnerability

assessment to be completed by both

Probation (or other qualified

community based) staff to

accompany all remanded or

convicted young people when they Lack of staff resources and no arrived from the Court and the senior manager responsible for establishment's staff should add their Child Protection to

own observations and judgments to organise/coordinate Child

33. this assessment. (5.30) Not achieved Protection Procedures.

The protection procedures should be

developed and implemented with

urgency and a system of Some new procedures are in place comprehensive vulnerability but lack of staff resources means assessment should be developed for Partially full implementation is not

34. all new arrivals. (5.31) Achieved possible.

Health Care

The Home Affairs Committee should

consider developing a more formal

statement of aims for the Health Care This continues as part of the service for prisoners and other overall review of the health care

35. offenders. (6.02) 2004 needs of prisoners.

The Home Affairs Committee should

consider commissioning a health care Completed by Dr. Rosemary Wool

36. needs assessment. (6.03) 2004 in 2004

Consideration should be given to

inviting the professional standards

inspectorate of the Royal

Pharmaceutical Society of Great

Britain to conduct an inspection of Achieved by default – HMCIP

the pharmacy services at La Moye will invite them as part of the

37. and to offer advice. (6.19) 2005 inspection in 2005.

We suggest that the Home Affairs

Committee gives consideration to commissioning a local assessment of need with a view to developing a low Plans are advanced for the secure/intensive care facility for the provision of such a unit at

38. island's mental health service. (6.19) 2005 St. Saviour's.

Education

Basic Skills assessment is now The scale and quality of initial needs undertaken on all Young assessment should be improved. Partially Offenders and any other prisoners

39. (7.20) Achieved who request it.

The curriculum offered should be

established and developed based on

the evidence gathered and that

emerging from the initial needs

10.40. assessment. (7.20) Not achieved Lack of resources.

The teaching environment and

facilities on the wings should be Partially Minimal improvement in some

41. improved. (7.20) Achieved areas but still woefully inadequate. City and Guilds in Horticulture started at the end of 2004 and

The number of accredited courses discussions continue with

and opportunities in education and Highlands College concerning

the workshops should be increased. Partially further developments but funding

42. (7.20) Achieved 2004 concerns remain.

The number of staff (external) with

teaching qualifications should be Lack of resources although increased and steps taken to increase proposals will shortly be presented the number of voluntary workers and for a much improved education

43. mentors. (7.20) Not achieved provision across the prison. Library

Lack of resources, although some

additional books have been Library provision and facilities Partially acquired from those no longer

44. should be improved. (7.20) Achieved wanted by Jersey Library. Physical Education

Although female prisoners do now

have access to some aspects of the Physical Education facilities should gymnasium, the area previously be improved for all prisoners as a available for them has been lost

45. matter of priority. (7.44) Not achieved due to further building work. Contact with Family and Friends

The whole visits system should be

reviewed. In particular efforts should

be made to resolve the overcrowding

situation on Saturdays. This should

include offering visits on Sundays Additional sessions have been and possibly on weekend mornings Partially arranged but Saturday remains

46. as well. (7.59) Achieved very popular and busy.

In the longer term, the physical

conditions in which visits take place

should be radically improved to bring Lack of resources although

them up to an acceptable condition consideration is being given to and the lack of facilities, particularly enhance provision with a

for those with children, should be relatively small additional amount

47. addressed. (7.59) Not achieved of capital funding.

Religious Practice, Pastoral Care

and Spiritual Activities

A dedicated area for religious practice and spiritual activities should be provided and made

48. accessible to all prisoners. (7.69) Not achieved Lack of resources.

Catering

Management should consider

establishing links with mainland

prison catering operations (such as Area Catering Manager from

the Isle of Wight) to gain advice on Prison Service of England and effective cleaning and supervision Wales visits. Catering manager

49. systems. (8.07) 2003 attends Catering Conference. Prisoner Programmes

Note should be taken of the

conditions and controls which apply

to the use of Offending Behaviour

Programmes, especially where these

are based on careful monitoring and

research, and steps should be taken to If courses are run they do comply ensure that the effectiveness of with the standards laid down by

10.50. programmes is maximised. (9.02) 2003 OBPU.

The benefits of inter-agency work

with the Probation Service should be

further explored in the interests of

public safety and crime reduction. Cooperation between the 2

51. (9.05) 2003 services continues.

Psychology

The provision of a psychology

service should attract funding in its

own right, enabling full budgetary

provision to be restored to Education

52. services. (9.06) 2003 This is now an established post. The range of duties of the

Psychologist should be re-assessed to

ensure appropriate deployment of

this specialist resource, with advice

from the Supervising Psychologist in

Jersey together with any assistance

available from the Psychology

Support Unit (PSU) of the U.K. A new job description is about to

53. Prison Service Headquarters. (9.08) 2005 be produced.

The terms of reference and

conditions of employment of the

Psychologist should be made clear

immediately in the interests of the

postholder and in support of proper It is proposed that this will shortly

54. development of the post. (9.09) 2005 become a permanent post.

The office accommodation and

equipment provided for the

psychologist were inadequate for the

post and should be reviewed to

include the provision of appropriate

computer and printing equipment.

55. (9.10) 2004

Temporary Release, Working Out

Scheme and Pre-release Work

The non-availability of temporary

release to shorter-term prisoners is

overly restrictive and should be

reconsidered in the interests of

improved resettlement practice.

56. (9.13) 2003

The scheme is open to all prisoners, including women,

The potential to expand the Working young offenders and those serving Out scheme to greater numbers of short sentences, however since the women and young men should be last inspection certain events have

57. considered. (9.17) 2003 led to less numbers being released. Life Sentenced Prisoners

The inclusion of all Jersey Life

Sentence prisoners in the wider U.K. Currently all life sentence

system is recommended in the prisoners are transferred to prisons interests of prisoners and the in England and Wales to serve

58. community. (9.20) 2003 their sentences.

Sentence Planning

Development of both Sentence

Planning and Personal Officer

schemes should assume some

urgency since Sentence Planning was Some limited expansion of the non-existant in the cases of adult scheme to the female wing and male prisoners and had enjoyed only enhanced male wing; lack of staff a limited introduction in the Female Partially resources prevents a greater

59. Unit. (9.22) Achieved expansion.

The sentence planning system for

those in the Young Offender Unit

should be strengthened and the

Probation and Aftercare Service

should make a contribution at all

stages of the sentence. Record

keeping should be improved, with all

information relating to a young

person being held in one case file

easily accessible to all unit staff.

10.60. (9.29) 2004

The Probation and Aftercare

Service

Consideration should be given to the

secondment of a Probation Officer

into the prison in order to promote

joint working, especially on Offender

Behaviour programmes and aftercare

61. arrangements. (9.35) 2004

Consideration should be given to

some community disposals

incorporating an Offending Lack of resources have prevented Behaviour groupwork component to the expansion of the offending

62. be undertaken at the prison. (9.35) Not achieved behaviour programmes.

The development of differential

levels of prison service

accommodation in parallel with non- Proposals will be put forward for custodial provisions should be alternative less secure

63. considered. (9.36) Not achieved accommodation.

Specific consideration should be

given to the development of a lower

security, hostel-type provision to

house those approved for the

Working Out scheme who, by

definition, no longer need the full Proposals will be put forward for containment of inner prison alternative less secure

64. accommodation. (9.37) Not achieved accommodation.

The use of Electronic Surveillance (Tagging) should be considered as a means of reducing the custodial population at remand hearings or early release stages of custodial

65. sentences. (9.38) 2003 TRMS introduced

In respect of Electronic Surveillance,

we suggest that consideration be

given to the role which the Honorary TRMS includes views of the Police might play in the Honorary Police but they are not administration and control of such otherwise involved in its

66. provision. (9.39) 2003 operation.

Further consideration and review of

the formal relationship between the

Prison Service and Probation and

Aftercare Service in Jersey is Partially Currently there is no SLA (or

67. recommended. (9.40) Achieved similar) in place.

Consideration should be given to the

development of a Sex Offender

Register; and to the introduction of

an Automatic Conditional Release

scheme for adult male and female

prisoners; and that these should be

without prejudice to the issues of Both remain under consideration Parole and Electronic Surveillance to Partially but await approval from the Law

68. which we also referred earlier. (9.43) Achieved Officers Department.

The use of prisons in the United Kingdom

mainland

The possibility that charges to the States of Jersey Prison Service for Details of how the charges are U.K. prison placements exceeded the raised has been provided showing actual costs should be investigated. that Jersey pays the actual costs

69. (9.46) 2004 (including overheads).

On current year's calculations, the

projected annual cost of lodging

prisoners in the U.K. amounted to Plans are in place to reduce the something in the region of number of prisoners transferred £1,000,000 and this arrangement from Jersey at the prison's request

10.70. should be closely examined. (9.48) 2004 (and hence reduce the cost). Consideration should be given to legislative change to incorporate

release on parole into Jersey law and

in this event to consider a system Considered but this would require whereby U.K. citizens, convicted and considerable legislative change in sentenced in Jersey, should be Jersey and any other jurisdiction automatically transferred to serve involved in receiving prisoners their sentence in U.K. prisons from Jersey and is felt not to be

71. without detriment. (9.48) 2004 practical.

To the Governor

Reception

All new receptions should be issued with the Compact information pack and given verbal information about what is going to happen in their first day or night following reception. Partially Some information is given to all

72. (2.11) Achieved new receptions.

The use of singleton Officers to

conduct strip searches, leaving them

open to allegations of misconduct or

assault by prisoners, should cease.

73. (2.15) Not achieved Lack of staff.

Due to insufficient space in the Women's and Vulnerable Prisoners'

units to properly conduct strip Second phase of redevelopment in searches, the use of alternative areas 2006 will provide an opportunity

74. should be considered. (2.15) Not achieved to re-assess use of accommodation Prisoners should be routinely asked

whether it is their first time in prison

as part of their initial reception

75. procedures. (2.16) 2003

All prisoner should be given the

opportunity to make a telephone call

76. on the day of reception. (2.17) 2003

First Night

Consideration should be given to the

establishment of an earlier cut off

time (for Receptions) to enable staff

to ensure prisoners are able to make

telephone calls and have showers.

77. (2.21) 2003

We suggest that the prison considers

issuing an induction tape giving basic

information about services, facilities

and routines of the establishment.

78. (2.26) Not achieved Lack of resources.

The second phase of redevelopment due for completion in 2006 will provide an

The initial location of women in an opportunity to re-assess the use of eight-bed dormitory is too large a all accommodation across the group in which to place Receptions establishment. There remains a and the numbers housed in dormitory commitment to improve the living

79. conditions should be reduced. (2.31) Not achieved conditions for women prisoners. Induction

Prisoners should receive and be Lack of resources, although as a helped to understand detailed result of a re-profiling exercise information on prison life through a carried out in 2005 it is hoped that comprehensive, multi-disciplinary, more staff will be provided to

10.80. induction programme. (2.35) Not achieved enable this to begin.

We urge that the practice of holding

new receptions in relative isolation

81. be discontinued immediately. (2.36) 2003

Accommodation

The installation of a card telephone

on the Young Offender Wing should

82. be an urgent priority. (3.33) 2003

Clothing and Possessions

Lack of resources, although as a

result of a re-profiling exercise All stored property should be placed carried out in 2005 it is hoped that in sealed bags with an identifiable more staff will be provided to

83. seal. (3.50, 2.18) Not achieved enable this to begin.

All prisoners should be issued with a

lockable storage box or cupboard so

that they can ensure the security of

84. their in-possession property. (3.51) Not achieved

Hygiene

Women were only allowed a hair removal cream and this discriminatory rule should be reviewed and razors should be issued to all prisoners unless it is felt to be unsafe following an individual risk

85. assessment. (3.53) 2003

Prisoners from the VPU should be

allowed more access to showers.

86. (3.55) 2004

Colour coding of cleaning equipment

should be implemented throughout

the establishment without delay to Lack of resources to develop and

87. avoid cross-contamination. (3.58) Not achieved monitor a revised system. Anti-bullying

A timetable had been set out for

implementation of the Anti-bullying

policy across the whole

establishment. Local prison

management should review progress Active consideration is underway and set a date for the policy to to establish a policy following a become operational throughout local survey that was conducted in

88. La Moye. (4.02) Not achieved Spring 2005.

Substance Use

The reasons for naming remand

(including unconvicted) prisoners to

the BoV were unclear and the level

of disclosure of personal information

by the prison to third parties should

89. be reviewed. (4.03) 2004

Prison Management should take steps

to ensure the Drug Strategy is

making effective use of resources,

that initiatives are co-ordinated and

mutually supportive and that areas of

unmet need are identified and

addressed. These include: A clear job

description for the role of the

prison's Drug Strategy Co-ordinator.

The establishment of a Drug Strategy

Group (DSG) with representation

from all relevant community

agencies and departments within the

prison. This should meet regularly

and be charged with the

implementation of the Drug Strategy.

The development of a comprehensive

Drug Strategy document which

defines the various initiatives in

education, prevention and treatment

within the prison. This should

include an action plan and key targets

for the coming year. Clear review

systems that monitor both inputs and

outcomes of the various initiatives. Partially The draft Drug Strategy has just

10.90. (4.05) Achieved been completed.

In respect of drug using prisoners,

prescribing decisions should be made

according to individual need rather

91. than to a standard formula. (4.06) 2003

Health care staff should liaise with

the Community Alcohol and Drug

Service to develop new guidelines Dialogue is continuing to consider for the detoxification and treatment changes to our policy as a result of of those with substance misuse the Scrutiny Report on Drug

92. problems. (4.06) 2003 Abuse.

A standard assessment tool should be

adopted to assist in identifying and

meeting the needs of individual

93. prisoners. (4.09) 2003

Race Relations and Foreign

Nationals

Central Race Relations and Foreign

Nationals Liaison Officers should be

appointed and trained to act as points

of reference and to provide support to

all prisoners from minority ethnic A RRLO has been appointed but groups and for Foreign Nationals. Partially lack of staff resources prevents

94. (4.19) Achieved much expansion of this role.

A multi-disciplinary forum, including

members from relevant outside

organisations, should be set up to

provide a setting where Race

Relations and the specific needs of

Foreign Nationals and prisoners from

minority ethnic groups can be

95. addressed. (4.19) Not achieved Lack of management resources. There did not appear to be any

refresher training in Race Relations

taking place and this should be

96. implemented. (4.20) Not achieved Lack of resources.

The issue of victimisation because of

race or ethnicity should be addressed

through staff and prisoners training

97. to promote racial awareness. (4.21) Not achieved Lack of resources

The establishment should consider

ways of readily accessing

independent translation and Partially Consideration is being given to

98. interpretation services. (4.23) Achieved links to Language Line'.

Any staff involved in investigating

complaints of racial discrimination

should be competent to do so and

99. receive effective support. (4.26) 2003

Suicide Prevention and Self-Harm

Reduction

Steps should be taken to ensure that

every member of staff appreciates

that understanding and reducing the

risk of suicide is everybody's

10.100. concern. (4.29) 2003

Refresher training in suicide and self-

harm awareness should be given to

all staff at least once in every year Lack of staff resources although it following the year of appointment. was undertaken by the recent new

10.102 (4.30) Not achieved entrant prison officers. Alternative, more detailed, observation and reporting should be

adopted in relation to F2052SH cases New procedures being considered and the guidelines amended as part of the ongoing review of

102. accordingly. (4.31) 2005 procedures.

Suicide Awareness Group meetings

should be held at least bi-monthly

with dates being formally planned

ahead to ensure full and Partially Meetings are held quarterly since

103. representative attendance. (4.32) Achieved the end of 2004.

Security

A number of managers should be

trained in the management of serious

104. incidents. (5.07) Not achieved Lack of staff resources. Contingency plans should be Lack of staff resources,
105. regularly tested. (5.07) Not achieved particularly management staff. Use of Force

When locating a prisoner in a special

cell, a checklist of action to be taken

should be fixed to the outer side of

the cell door to provide an aide-

memoire for staff and ensure full

106. compliance with procedures. (5.14) 2002

Prisoner Disciplinary Procedures

Written notice of any disciplinary

charge should be given to the

prisoner at least 24 hours before the Lack of management resources to

107. hearing. (5.18) Not achieved devise revised procedures. Incentives and Earned Privileges

Scheme

A proper Incentives and Earned

Privileges Scheme should be put in

108. place for women. (3.25) 2003

Senior management should give

priority to the development of IEP Lack of management resources to

109. schemes. (5.20) Not achieved devise revised procedures. Senior management should review

the IEP scheme for male prisoners to

ensure that all those eligible for the

Enhanced level are placed on it

without undue delay. This should

include those who are unconvicted

and those serving sentences of less Partially Some attention is paid to ensure 10.110. than 18 months. (5.23) Achieved the fair operation of the scheme. Vulnerable Prisoner Unit (including provision for sex

offenders)

There was absolutely no systematic

and effective casework intervention

to address the needs of VPU

prisoners nor any visible attempt to

transfer them to normal location in

the prison and both issues should Lack of staff resources to devise

111. receive urgent remedial action. (5.24) Not achieved systems to support such a policy. Child Protection

The offer of training from the Jersey

Child Protection Committee should

be taken up with urgency and the A Child Protection Officer has prison should itself be represented at been appointed who has received a senior level on the Child Protection Partially some training but there is no

112. Committee. (5.29) Achieved senior level representation. Health Care

It has been reviewed and found to The need for clerical support to the be needed but there are

Health Care service should be Partially insufficient resources available to

113. reviewed. (6.06) Achieved provide such support.

A stand alone computer is

The introduction of a clinical provided but we are awaiting the computing system should be Partially new computer system to enable a

114. considered. (6.07) Achieved more up to date system.

We suggest that consideration is

given to displaying more leaflets

115. about women's health. (6.08) 2003

The safety of cells to accommodate

disturbed or at risk' prisoners should Partially Some cells have 24 hour camera

116. be reviewed. (6.10) achieved coverage.

A clinical waste system must be

introduced as a matter of urgency.

117. (6.11) 2002

Consideration should be given to Proposals for health provision at developing a triage protocol and to La Moye will shortly be presented ensuring that any group direction on to the Home Affairs and Health nurse prescribing meets legal and Social Services Committees

118. requirements. (6.13) Not achieved shortly.

Employment and Vocational

Training Provision

More work off the residential unit

should be provided for women Some work is provided in the

119. prisoners. (3.24, 7.39) 2003 horticultural area.

Part of the horticultural area should

be made available for female

10.120. prisoners. (7.27) 2003

City and Guilds in Horticulture

started at the end of 2004 and

discussions continue with Opportunities for prisoners to gain Highlands College concerning work-based qualifications should be Partially further developments but funding

121. introduced. (7.28) Achieved concerns remain.

Minimal sentence planning in Purposeful activities should be linked place and few opportunities for

122. to prisoners' sentence plans. (7.37) Not achieved purposeful activities.

Minimal sentence planning in Work allocation should be based on place and few opportunities for

123. individual need. (7.37) Not achieved purposeful activities.

Local management should arrange

for an industrial Health and Safety Insufficient resources to undertake survey to be undertaken by a suitably review or to carry out the action qualified person and action taken on that it is known would be

any recommendations which may necessary following such a

124. result. (7.38) Not achieved review.

Physical Education

The Physical Education Department The prison does not run an

should have a formal input into induction programme yet. induction programmes for all new Following re-profiling it is

125. prisoners. (7.45) Not achieved intended to introduce this. Consideration should be given to

allowing male Physical Education

staff to take classes in the Female Partially Whilst this could be permitted,

126. Unit. (7.48) Achieved lack of staff resources prevent it. Physical Education staff have much

to contribute to wider elements of the

regime and prisoner care and their

potential should be developed in this Re-profiling of staff may provide

127. way at La Moye. (7.50) Not achieved an opportunity to develop this. Physical Education staff should be

used to train prisoners in first aid and Re-profiling of staff may provide

128. kinetic lifting techniques. (7.51) Not achieved an opportunity to develop this. Contact with Family and Friends

Prisoners should be given a free five-

minute phone call or letter in lieu of This recommendation was

129. every visit not taken. (4.28) 2003 considered but rejected.

Consideration should be given to

subsidising telephone calls for

Foreign Nationals in circumstances

where they are otherwise isolated

10.130. from friends or family. (7.61) 2002 Catering

Senior management should take steps

to improve conditions in the Kitchen

to a level that competes favourably

with other work opportunities in the

131. prison. (8.02) 2002

Some prisoners do have access to It should be a requirement that all the Health and Hygiene computer prisoners receive health and safety package but lack of staff resources training before starting work in the Partially has restricted prisoner access to

132. Kitchen. (8.03) Achieved the package.

Senior management should ensure

that all prisoners are able to gain Once the new kitchen is

training and qualifications when completed in 2006 there will be

133. working in the kitchen. (8.04) Not achieved the opportunity to pursue this. The whole of the food servery system

should be reviewed immediately and

the local Environmental Health

Officer should be asked to advise on

134. best practice. (8.05) 2002

The local Environmental Health

Officer should be asked to undertake

regular monitoring visits and provide

a written report on the findings.

135. (8.05) 2002

Prison Shop (Canteen)

Consideration should be given to the

relocation of the Prison Shop to a

more central, ground floor position

so it can be visited by more groups of

prisoners including women and

young offenders, and improve access

to allow goods to be taken safely into

136. the Shop. (8.11) 2003

The ethnic, cultural and gender needs

of prisoners should be regularly

assessed and provided for in the

137. Prison Shop. (8.12) 2003

On the occasions when the Canteen

Officer is not available, we

recommend that reception packs for

smokers and non-smokers should be

on offer in Reception containing

tobacco and phone cards as

138. appropriate. (8.14) 2003

Personal Officers should not be

allowed to make special purchase for

prisoners, as this system could leave Due to the relationships between Officers open to intimidation or prisoners and staff there is some corruption. All special purchases limited purchasing undertaken by should be ordered through the Partially staff but this is coordinated and

139. Canteen. (8.17) Achieved approved on a case-by-case basis.

More use should be made of

catalogue ordering facilities for Some use of catalogue shopping is goods not available in the Canteen. Partially undertaken but generally not via

10.140. (8.18) Achieved the canteen Prisoner Programmes

Lack of resources to enable such an analysis to take place and

A thorough needs analysis should be uncertainty surrounding the undertaken to establish the levels of funding requirements that would criminogenic and social need in the be needed to meet the needs

141. various sections of the prison. (9.04) Not achieved identified.

Temporary Release, Working Out

Scheme and Pre-release Work

The Temporary Release Officer

should not be interrupted in this vital The system for temporary release area of resettlement work by has been changed since the

142. deployment to other duties. (9.19) 2004 Inspection.

Sentence Planning

A senior manager should be given a

more visible responsibility to ensure

the proper development of Sentence

143. Planning. (9.21) 2003

We recommend that one case file Most information for sentence should be created for each young planning for young offenders is male prisoner and located in a secure brought together and held in one place easily accessible to all staff file in the room used for the working on the Young Offender Partially meetings close to the main YO

144. Unit. (9.28) Achieved accommodation.

Good sentence planning provides the

evidence upon which demands for

resources can be based and for this

reason alone it should be seen to

have the full and unambiguous

backing of the Senior Management

145. Team. (9.30) 2003

Personal Officer Scheme

The Personal Officer Scheme should

be further developed to assume an

important status within a formalised

146. Sentence Planning structure. (9.31) Not achieved Lack of resources.

A local Personal Officer training

programme should be launched to Whilst a training programme has raise the general level of been developed, the scheme has performance based on the standards not been spread across the whole achieved by the majority of staff at Partially prison and lack of staff resources

147. La Moye. (9.32) Achieved has prevented further training.

JD Edwards accounting system – question and answer

Deputy  Geoffrey  Peter   Southern  of  St. Helier  tabled  the  following  written  question  of  Senator  Terence Augustine Le Sueur, President of the Finance and Economics Committee –

" Would  the  President  inform  members  whether  there  are  any  known  difficulties  in  adapting  the

JD Edwards system for States accounting to accommodate the 3% Goods and Services Tax (GST), and, if so, what costs may be involved in any conversion?"

The President of the Finance and Economics Committee tabled the following written answer –

" A s identified in the Crown Agents report, a specialised IT system will be necessary for the administration of the Goods and Services Tax. Any such system would interface with the JD Edwards system for accounting purposes.

T he JD Edwards system is a comprehensive and flexible accounting and resource management system

which undoubtedly has the functionality to meet the accounting requirements of the Goods and Services Tax. Following the States decision to introduce GST, the detailed specifications and budgets for the implementation of the tax will now be produced but the cost of the modifications to JD Edwards are likely to be relatively minor."

Recruitment and appointment of teachers – questions and answers

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier tabled the following written questions of Senator Michael Edward Vibert , President of the Education, Sport and Culture Committee –

" 1.   Would the President inform members whether the standard of applicants attracted to apply for teaching posts in Jersey has been maintained over the past decade, and whether his department keeps data to monitor any change in the standard of applicants, such as class of degree held, and number of posts appointed to those without a formal teaching qualification for the age group concerned?

2. Would  the  President  inform  members  whether  the  Committee  will  be  reviewing  its  teacher recruitment and selection policies in the light of possible reductions in applicants resulting from –

( a ) the  adoption of "20 per cent means 20 per cent" taxation? and,

( b ) th e continuing improvement to teachers' working conditions in the U.K. resulting from reduced administrative and other non-teaching duties which are still required in Jersey?

3. Wi  ll the President inform members what data, if any, is retained to monitor recruitment and retention rates for teaching staff, and, in particular, can he give, for example, comparative figures for 2004 and 1994 of –

( a ) the  number of applicants per post?

( b ) t he  number of occasions where no appointment was made?, and

( c ) the  number of occasions when the successful candidate has refused the offer of employment?, for bot h primary and secondary sectors.

W oul d the President also provide comparative figures for a similar period for those leaving the

teaching profession in Jersey in under 2 years, and, in particular, inform members whether the Committee has comparative data on the number of teachers who fail their probationary period in Jersey as compared to a comparable U.K. Authority?"

The President of the Education, Sport and Culture Committee tabled the following written answers –

" 1 . The Department does not keep data to monitor the standard of applicants. However, the data below suggests  that  the academic  standard  of teachers in  the U.K.,  who have  successfully completed training, has improved continuously since 1993.

School Workforce Analysis in England 2004 – Percentage of Cohort

1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Postgraduate

Class of first degree

1st honours 3.7 3.8 4.3 4.4 5.0 5.0 5.3 5.6 5.4 5.7 6.2 2nd honours 81.6 83.1 83.2 83.2 85.4 85.3 85.8 86.1 84.4 85.9 85.1 other and

unclassified 7.4 7.0 7.0 6.0 5.2 4.6 3.9 4.1 4.4 3.5 3.2 honours

ordinary/pass 7.3 6.1 5.5 6.4 4.4 5.1 4.9 4.2 5.9 4.9 5.4

Total 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 Undergraduate

Class of first degree

1st honours 2nd honours other and unclassified honours ordinary/pass

Total

4.2 3.8

80.5 80.5

3.2 3.4

12.1 12.4

100 100

3.9 4.0

84.1 85.7

3.1 3.0

8.9 7.3

100 100

4.5 4.8

89.9 88.1

4.1 2.8

1.5 4.3

100 100

5.3 6.0

87.8 89.8

3.5 3.1

3.4 1.0

100 100

3. 6.9 6.7

5. 89.5 90.8

2.7 2.7 2.3

0.7 0.8 0.2

100 100 100

A ppl icants for teaching posts are expected to have a first degree and a Postgraduate Certificate in

Education or a dedicated degree in Education. Normally prospective candidates are also required to demonstrate sound professional practice in the classroom as part of the selection procedure.

T he r e are currently 5 teachers who hold a degree and have not yet completed a Postgraduate

Certificate in Education. However, 4 of these do hold a qualification to teach post 16 years. All teachers in Jersey are required to demonstrate that they meet national teaching standards during the first year of their employment. Those who are successful are awarded Jersey Qualified Teacher status which is monitored and evaluated by the Institute of Education, London University.

2. ( a) T he Committee has recently been reviewing its teacher recruitment and selection policies in light of the States of Jersey HR Transformation Project. It will continue to monitor appointment trends especially in respect of shortage subjects.

(b ) A s part of the 2004-2006 pay agreement between the Education, Sport and Culture Committee

and the Teachers' Associations, provision has been made for the establishment of a review body to consider the impact of work force reforms in U.K. and to review local conditions of service.

3. D ata has been collated by academic year dating back to September 2001.

(a ) N umber of advertised teaching posts:

        2001    – 2002 S ec ondary 167

P ri m ar y 1 03

2002 – 2003 S ec ondary 71

P ri m ar y 49

2003 – 2004 S ec ondary 62

P ri m ar y 40

2004 – cur re nt S econdary 5 1

P ri m ar y 13

(b ) N umber of occasions where no appointment was made:

        2001    – 2002 S ec ondary 11

P ri m ar y 1 5

2002 – 2003 S ec ondary 17

P ri m ar y 7

2003 – 2004 S ec ondary 5

P ri m ar y 2

2004 – cur re nt S econdary 0

P ri m ar y 0.

R e - adve r t is ed posts are included in the numbers for Question 3(a). Since 2001, no class has

been without a teacher at the beginning of an academic year. However, it is possible that some may have been employed from the supply list or on a short-term contract.

(c ) T eachers leaving the employ of the Education, Sport and Culture Committee with less than 2

years service:

2001  – 2002     20 2002 – 2003 22 2003 – 2004 21 2004 – cur re nt 12

S om e of t hese teachers may have moved into the private sector. The Department is not aware of

any teachers refusing the offer of employment since 2001. In the last 2 years 4 teachers hav failed their probationary period; 2 of these were newly qualified teachers. Data for comparison with the U.K. has been requested from the DfES.

Funding of post 19 and post 16 education – question and answer

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier tabled the following written question of Senator Michael Edward Vibert , President of the Education, Sport and Culture Committee –

" T he President in his answer to my question on 10th May 2005, regarding the £1.3 million post-19 funding proposal, stated that the proposals.......have not yet been considered or accepted by Committees' and it would be inappropriate for me to comment'.

Woul d the President inform members –

( a ) whether the Committee released this figure and, if not, whether he is aware who did, under what

circumstances, and for what purpose? and,

( b ) whether there is any under-funding in 2006 for the provision of post-16 education at Highlands, and,

if so, what measures, if any, does the Committee propose in order to address this?"

The President of the Education, Sport and Culture Committee tabled the following written answer –

" ( a) The figures were not released by the Committee but by the Treasury as part of its open and transparent resource allocation process. All States members were invited to attend the Presidents' discussions on the 2006 – 2008 resource allocation process and, therefore, it was considered to be in the public interest to release the information provided at that meeting.

( b ) As I stated in my answer to the Deputy 's previous question – the Committee has not yet discussed its

proposed 2006 – 2008 cash limits, nor the allocation of its 2006 budget, and until such time it would be inappropriate for me to comment on how the proposed net changes in funding for 2006 – 2008 will be allocated to meet the Committee's priorities for Education, Sport and Culture' which includes Highlands College."

Committee carry-forwards and budget reporting – question and answer

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier tabled the following written question of Senator Terence Augustine Le Sueur, President of the Finance and Economics Committee –

" Wou ld the President inform members –

( a ) what carry forward balances, if any, have been identified, and from which Committees' budgets, to fund the Economic Development Committee's Economic Growth Plan and would he state whether

any other projects will now suffer as a result of this new priority; if so, which projects will be

affected?

( b ) whether the Committee's policy to eliminate carry-forward budgets is counter-productive to any

Committee's attempts to reduce spending given that Committees are now aware that any unspent budget at the year end will be returned to the central funds of the States?

( c ) whether the JD Edwards accounting system provides for any limitations in the accuracy of budget

reporting and, if so, whether this could lead to unintentional reporting of, for example, underspends when such underspends do not in fact exist?"

The President of the Finance and Economics Committee tabled the following written answer –

" (a) The Finance and Economics Committee, as in previous years, has considered requests from Committees to carry forward revenue votes from 2004 to 2005. The policy it applied was to allow positive carry forwards of up to 3% of original gross revenue expenditure budget except in exceptional circumstances. After applying that policy it was identified that excess carry forwards of £1.3 million in total could be returned to General Funds, including the following significant balances:

P ol icy a nd R esources £ 21 1,009 P r ivi lege s an d Procedures £181,201 F i na nce a nd E conomics £ 900,191 .

H ow ever , before returning those sums to General Funds the Committee considered the pressing need

for pump-priming the States' approved Economic Growth Plan for 2005/06, and has approached both the Policy and Resources and Privileges and Procedures Committees for their agreement to apply their excess carry forwards to the Economic Growth Plan. In the event that those Committees do not agree to that application of those funds, they will be returned to General Funds.

T her ef ore, no projects will suffer as a result of pump-priming the States Economic Growth Plan as

those funds, if not used for that purpose, will be returned to General Funds to contribute towards funding the deficits forecast prior to the implementation of the Fiscal Strategy.

( b ) The Committee would be disappointed should Committees unnecessarily spend taxpayers money simply to avoid having funds which they do not need being ploughed back into States finances to

provide funding for future high priority expenditure. The Committee is not aware of any such misuse.

( c ) The JD Edwards system is a modern day financial ledger system with full functionality to be expected

of such a system. At the year end the figures for that system form the basis for the financial statements which are audited. As such, assurance can be gained that all expenditure properly incurred is recorded on the ledger and that therefore any underspends (or overspends) are also accurate. As always, there is the possibility of human error, but the system itself is sound and robust."

Long Term Incapacity Benefit and Long-term Incapacity Pension – question and answer

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier tabled the following written question of Senator Paul Francis Routier, President of the Employment and Social Security Committee –

" Wou ld the President inform members –

(a ) whether the Committee will research the medical costs of recipients Long Term Incapacity

Allowances (LTIA) and, if necessary review the proposed Income Support Scheme to ensure that the need for these medical costs is met, notwithstanding the reference to the Centre for Research into Social Policy (CRSP) work referred to in the President's reply to my questions asked on 10th May 2005?

( b ) whether any penalty is suffered by Jersey men and women who have served in H.M. Armed Services should they need to apply for a Long-term Incapacity Pension on their return to Jersey, and, if so,

whether the Committee will review Social Security legislation, and in what timescale, to remove any

such defect if so applicable?"

The President of the Employment and Social Security Committee tabled the following written answer –

" ( a) No. In my answer on 10th May 2005, I made the point that the variation between individuals and the virtually infinite combinations of illness, impairment and levels of incapacity would make such research of little value. I would also refer the Deputy to the health proposals outlined in page 23 of the Income Support System report (P.86/2005). He will see that the Health Insurance system is to be reviewed in conjunction with the Income Support system so that additional support towards the cost of visiting the doctor and obtaining prescription medicines can be better targeted to individuals, especially those with chronic conditions that warrant more than average care by a general practitioner. However, if the Deputy has a specific individual or theoretical example for the Committee to consider, we would be grateful to receive details so that it can be factored into next stage of development. The Deputy is also reminded that a full review of the new Incapacity System is to be conducted at the end of the first year.

( b ) I am not aware of any penalty. I have also referred this question to H.M. Forces Support and Welfare

Officer (Channel Islands) who is also unaware of any penalty. H.M. Forces are covered by U.K. Social Security and Ministry of Defence legislation as well as the reciprocal agreements that exist on matters relating to social security and tax between Jersey and the U.K. The underlying principle is that a person, having paid contributions to the relevant country, has the same rights to benefit as a resident paying contributions in that country. If the Deputy is aware of any anomaly, can I suggest he contact Mr. Owen Wiscombe, the H.M. Forces Support and Welfare Officer (Channel Islands), who would be able to take up the matter."

Long Term Incapacity Benefit – question and answer

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier tabled the following written question of Senator Paul Francis Routier, President of the Employment and Social Security Committee –

" ( a) In his answer to my question on Long Term Incapacity Allowance (LTIA) on 15th March 2005, the President indicated that over time, moving to a gender-neutral system of individual entitlement is cost neutral'. Would the President confirm, when comparing figures for the new LTIA system with its predecessor, whether it is valid to ignore the change from the married component' in this benefit, or whether reduced numbers of these claims will be compensated by increased numbers of married women submitting claims?

( b ) Data given in response to my question on LTIA on 19th April 2005, revealed that a total of

347 applicants were assessed for this benefit in the 4th quarter 2004 and the 1st quarter 2005, of which 243 were receiving Invalidity Benefit at a total cost of £35,363 per week as compared to a cost of £18,990 per week as equivalent recipients of LTIA.

Woul d the President inform members whether this reduced benefit level provides valid grounds for the

Committee to review the comparisons between the former Invalidity Benefit and its replacement LTIA?

( c ) Would the President confirm –

(i ) that these 243 recipients of Invalidity Benefit (at present rate of £145.53) would have received

in total £35,363 per week (being some £459,700 per quarter or £1,840,000 per year);

(i i) that these 243 recipients of LTIA (using the data on percentage awards given) will now receive

£18,990 per week (being only 53% of benefit due under the previous system); and

(i ii ) t hat the annual saving to the Social Security Fund on payments to these recipients over a year

will be £865,000 when compared to the previous Invalidity Benefit system?

If so, w ould the President inform members whether the Committee was aware of these savings when the changes to the benefits system were being consulted on, and whether the States and the public

were informed?"

The President of the Employment and Social Security Committee tabled the following written answer –

" ( a) Cost neutral, gender neutrality and individual entitlement are not based solely around LTIA or any one benefit but are an integral part of the whole system of contributions and benefits. The abolition of the married woman's option not to pay contributions and other changes introduced as a result of the last major reform of the Social Security system were to abolish discrimination in the previous system and put men and women on an equal footing.

N o doubt the outcome will factor into the U.K. Government Actuary's reviews. One of the main aims

was also to improve pension entitlement for women and it will be some years before the full impact of the whole change is achieved.

( b ) As the Deputy is aware, a review of the changes to the incapacity benefit system will take place after

a full year's implementation. (Most changes to benefit systems take some years to settle down into a pattern). I do not believe the Deputy 's reasons for review at this early stage are valid because I cannot accept that his comparisons are valid.

( c ) I cannot confirm the Deputy 's figures because, as I stated in my previous replies, the Deputy makes

the erroneous assumption that existing and future LTIA recipients would all have been eligible for Invalidity Benefit. Early indications of the change are that the previous incapacity benefit system masked disguised retirement' and unemployment'. This also seems to be an issue in other jurisdictions. The Deputy is also reminded that the system now operating has been partly in force since 1974, at least for people incapacitated through accident which leads to a long-term loss of faculty. These cases continue without any change other than the benefit has been renamed. The main change has been that long-term illness is now handled in the same way as those previously assessed as a result of an accident."

Oral questions

1. D ep uty G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the President of the Employment and Social Security Committee:

" Wi l l the President inform members whether any further research has been undertaken on the demand for effective delivery of a benefit to replace the Health Insurance Exception (HIE) under the proposed Income Support system and, if so, what it is? In particular, what consultation has taken place with general practitioners on the Island?"

S en at or P.F. Routier (President of the Employment and Social Security Committee):

" T her e have been various discussions between my Department and the G.P. Negotiating Committee. I have also met with their Committee recently to discuss the way forward should the States approve the Committee's report and proposition on the Income Support system in June. During our meeting, I asked the representatives to identify one of their members who would be able to support us in the development of the next phase so that we would be able to set the guidelines and the processes so that they are workable and effective when the new system goes live in early 2007. We hope that, with the GP's continued support, we will be able to take forward an appropriate mechanism, including their suggestions, so that it fits in with the overall system."

1(a) D eputy G.P. Southern :

"I ha ve a two-part supplementary, if I may, Sir. Can the President publish the advice he is getting from

the GPs and, secondly, is he aware that the current HIE system is badly directed, in that many people, especially those on long-term Incapacity Allowance, cannot get HIE for the variety of complex rules that surround HIEs?"

S en at or P.F. Routier:

" F ir s tly, with regard to publicising, what we are doing is working on a Committee basis with their representatives and sitting down with them and discussing the ways which they feel that the new support for the health of those who are chronically ill and who have young families, to ensure that what we are doing for the new Income Support system is appropriate to meet their needs. That is the process

which we are going with, so it is a matter of sitting down with them and working through all the issues. We had

the first of those meetings last week, which I attended. With regard to the current HIE system, we are aware that the HIE system is not directed in the way we would want it to be in the future. That is exactly what the sort of work we are doing is to ensure that what we do come forward with is an appropriate mechanism to direct support, particularly to those people with chronic illness and with young families."

1(b) D eputy G.P. Southern :

" If   I  may, again a two-part question. Yet, in his written answer tabled today, he says that he is not prepared to do any research on the health impact on those on long-term Incapacity Allowance because it would be a waste of time. How does that tie-in with his recent answer? Finally, would he be prepared to allow Scrutiny to get involved in this aspect of the delivery of the Income Support system?"

S en at or P.F. Routier:

"I  t hi nk, in the written answer which I gave with regard to the research – in particular the varying health

needs of individuals – it is very evident that individual health circumstances are so varied that it would be a task which actually wouldn't have any value to it, because people's circumstances do change quite considerably. Even somebody with the same type of illness can have different requirements to meet those needs, so it is considered by the professionals that to carry out the sort of research that the Deputy is suggesting would be inappropriate. With regard to the request whether Scrutiny could be part of the further development, certainly that is exactly what we will be proposing with the timescale which we are setting out, once the report and proposition laying the sort of foundations for the Income Support system is known and secured by the States' decision. We will then be working closely with those stakeholders who are involved; and what we are doing is to work in a timescale to ensure that Scrutiny can help with the development and the implementation of the new Income Support system."

2. D ep  uty G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the President of the Employment and Social Security Committee:

" W il l the President inform members whether any additional resources are planned to help those in receipt of benefits, particularly the Long-Term Incapacity Allowance (LTIA) to find work and, if so, what are they?"

S en at or P.F. Routier (President of the Employment and Social Security Committee):

" V a r ious initiatives have already taken place with the intent of providing a wider range of services to support people with special employment needs into work, including those on LTIA, especially if they have lost their job. The Jersey Employment Trust was set up to co-ordinate action across 3 Departments; that is Education, Health and our own department, Employment and Social Security. It was done so to improve the transition for people who are moving from one set of circumstances to another; also to make better use of the resources which are spread across those Departments; to provide more training and development opportunities for people with special employment needs; and with the whole purpose of improving their prospects for work. There are a number of people who need to be ready for work, and when they are ready for work they can be supported into getting a job with the help of our job coaches through Workwise. The Department also provides other services, such as help with completing CVs, preparation for interviews, career guidance and online learning opportunities. There is now a mix of provision that is designed to suit most needs. At present, we consider that the Jersey Employment Trust and the Department are adequately resourced. What we are doing is re-using those current resources in a more appropriate way. But we do recognise that, in the not too distant future, there will be a need to perhaps extend the Supportive Employment Project, and members who have taken part in the Capital Decision Conference will recognise that we do have a project where we want to ensure that those needs are being met."

2(a)  D eputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:

" G i ven that the President, Sir, is developing and enhancing a whole range of needs, would this take away from the idea – which I understand he is now studying – to introduce insurance for long-term residential care?"

S en at or P.F. Routier:

"I am not sure how that is related to this particular issue, Sir, but certainly we are looking at a different project, which is to look at the issues relating to long-term care. We want to bring forward a proposition later on which will meet those needs. We recognise that that is something that needs to be

done."

2(b) D eputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:

" T h e President might not have the numbers at the moment, but if he can inform the House at a later time – if he doesn't have the numbers, since LTIA has been introduced (which is an allowance where people with disabilities are allowed to work) – could he inform the House, please, how many people started on this scheme and how many people have actually got jobs?"

 S en at or P.F. Routier:

 "I don 't have those figures with me, Sir. I will get them."

2(c) D eputy G.P. Southern :

"T h e President spent a lot of time talking about the past, what had been established, and very little time

talking about what developments are planned now. It seemed to me that he seemed to be saying that very little was planned. Is he aware that there is an increased demand now from many people on long- term Incapacity Allowance who are rated at, say, only 25% incapacitated and who, therefore, are put in severe hardship because of this?"

S en at or P.F. Routier:

" We do recognise that there are a number of people who do need assistance with finding employment, and the Department will do everything they possibly can to assist them. If the Deputy has any particular cases that he has an issue with, I hope he would help that particular person by directing them to the Department to ensure that they are given all the support we are able to do."

2(d)  D eputy G.P. Southern :

"I f I may, Sir, it is more than an individual. The President has given me the record, which suggests that

half of the people on long-term Incapacity Allowance are reduced to a 50% benefit or less. There is severe hardship going on amongst several hundred members of our community out there. It is not just an individual case. Will the President inform us what steps he is taking now to correct to deal with this hardship?"

S en at or P.F. Routier:

" T he debate seems to be moving into a slightly different area with regard to helping people into work. If the Deputy is wanting to focus on the financial needs of people who are on long-term incapacity benefits, the process, as I am sure he is aware, is that – if people are in financial need – they would use the current welfare system. That is what is available to people. If they are in financial need, there is a support mechanism for them to use and obviously the new Income Support system will replace that in the future."

2(e) D eputy G.P. Southern :

" If I may have one last supplementary, will the President inform the House what additional resources are being put into place to help people back into work or will be put into place in the near future?"

S en at or P.F. Routier:

"I b el ieve I have given that answer previously. We do recognise that people do need support to get into

work. There are existing resources there which are available to people. We are currently spending £39 million on benefits to people who are in need in Incapacity Benefits across the board. What we need to do is I am not sure that we need additional resources, but we need to ensure that those resources are appropriately targeted, and that is exactly what the Income Support system will be doing."

2(f) T h  e Deputy of St. John:

"C oul d the President tell us what support there is for somebody who is full-time disabled, who might be

able to do one day a week? Would that person lose part of their income or their total income from Social Security?"

S en at or P.F. Routier:

" I thank the Deputy for that question, because that is exactly what the reform to the Incapacity Benefit did that was carried out, that came into place in October of last year. It enables people to receive benefit and to work. Prior to that, they could not do that, they actually did lose their benefits if they

managed to get a job. That is the very positive thing that has happened with regards to the changes to the

Incapacity Benefit."

3. T h e D eputy of St. John of the President of the Policy and Resources Committee:

"U nd er the new ministerial system of Government, will advice given to a Minister by the Law Officers'

Department be made available to States members and, if not, would the President state the reasons why?"

S en at or F.H. Walker (President of the Policy and Resources Committee):

" In the ministerial system, as at present, all States members will be able to seek advice from the Law Officers' Department. As well as individual members, this obviously includes Ministers and the Scrutiny Panels. In matters of litigation or matters which may lead to litigation, the advice received by Ministers from the Law Officers will of course need to be kept confidential because the release of such information could be prejudicial to the outcome of proceedings. In all other areas, I would expect States members to ask the Minister what he or she sees as the legal position on any matter for which he or she has responsibility. Members will also be able to seek clarification from the Law Officers' Department if they feel this to be necessary."

3(a) T he Deputy of St. John:

"T he period of confidentiality after the advice has been given and everything has been, shall we say, put

to bed; could members be told what that period of confidentiality could be? Will there be a finite date of 5 years or 10 years when that information will come out to the public domain?"

 S en at or F.H. Walker :

 "T ha t has not been discussed. Nothing of that nature is planned at this point."

3(b) D eputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:

"C oul d the President inform us if the proceedings are going to change because, under Shadow Scrutiny,

the President himself, when questioned on Scrutiny under the Migration Policy, we asked the President of Policy and Resources if we could have the legal advice if he would give us leave to ask for the legal advice that he had been given on the Migration Policy to be known to us, and he actually refused. Also, when we interviewed the Attorney General, we were given very little legal advice. In fact, on some of the questions we were not advised whether he had even given legal advice. So is the system going to change when we go to full Scrutiny, or is what is happening now going to carry on happening, where Scrutiny and other States members cannot get the legal advice that the Minister is given unless the Minister decides he wants to tell us?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

" T he  current situation will continue, but I think my answer made it clear that members can – and I expect would – ask the Minister what is the legal position on any particular aspect. Indeed, that information was, I understand, provided to the Scrutiny Panel that the Deputy refers to. Also, of course, the Scrutiny Panel is capable, as they did with Migration, to call the Attorney General and to seek his opinion on the legal position on any matter which they are scrutinising at the time."

3(c) D eputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement:

" T her  e are occasions when a private member needs to seek legal advice from the Crown Officers regarding issues that a Committee may be dealing with simply, in my own case on some occasions, I have merely wanted to reassure myself that the Committee was doing its job properly, but legal advice has been denied simply because the Committee itself has already taken legal advice. Would the President advise what remedy he may suggest for such circumstances and is the problem being looked into?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

" I t hi nk that is, if I understand the question correctly, fully addressed in the last paragraph of my answer, when I said that I would expect States members in the first instance basically to ask the Minister what he or she sees as the legal position on any matter in which a member is interested, but, if members wished to obtain further information, further advice or clarification, then they can do so from the Law Officers' Department."

3(d) D eputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:

" W oul d the President confirm that, in the case of non-litigation circumstances, where advice has been received by a Committee, it then becomes, so to speak, the property of the Committee and the President when asked, for example in Scrutiny, is duty-bound to reveal that advice?"

 S en at or F.H. Walker :

 "I  am  not sure I fully grasped the question. I do apologise. If the Deputy could re-ask the question."

 T h e B  ailiff

 "P er hap  s the Deputy could put it again."

D ep u ty R.G. Le Hérissier:

" W hen a President receives advice from a Crown Officer, does that advice, so to speak, become the property of the Committee and, therefore, it is the Committee's bounden duty to reveal the full extent of that advice when asked?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

" T ha t has not been the practice. That has not been the principle. As I have said, there is no plan at this point to change existing practice, which has actually, I believe, served the States and the public well."

3(e) D eputy C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour:

"I w o nder, Sir, if the Attorney General could inform the House whether there is a time limit in fact after

this so-called legal advice can be – "

T h e B  ailiff:

" N o,   Deputy , I am afraid not. The President of the Policy and Resources Committee is answering questions at the moment."

 D ep u ty C.J. Scott Warr en:

 "I t w as just, Sir, that he seemed unsure on this point."

3(f) D ep uty G.P. Southern of St. Helier:

" Is   the   President aware that in every other Parliamentary area the Scrutiny Panel, or those responsible for the scrutiny of the Executive's actions, does actually have separate legal advice, and does he accept that this will cause a problem going into the new ministerial system? Furthermore, is he aware that, as we adopt Human Rights legislation, the way forward to test whether a particular action is Human Rights compliant will be to test it in the law in a particular case, to test whether it is proportional and, therefore, most advice may be subject to a test of law and litigation later on?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

" A gai  n, I think I answered that latter point pretty well in my answer, that if anything is likely to be subject to litigation, then, in the interests of the public, it does need to be kept confidential, because, otherwise, we are exposing the States and the public to risk in a court of law. That seems to me to be absolute sound practice. So far as separate legal advice is concerned, there are no plans to provide separate legal advice; nor in the opinion of my Committee is such separate legal advice necessary or desirable in a jurisdiction such as Jersey."

3(g) T he Deputy of St. John:

"Wi ll  the President give the House an assurance that his Committee will bring, for debate to this House,

the subject of freedom of information, so that after a certain date all information given to a Committee, whether on a B' Agenda or an A' Agenda, and information given by Crown Officers, will be available to the public of Jersey? Shall we say whether it is after 10 years or after 25 years, will he giv an indication that he is prepared to bring that to the House for debate?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

"N o ,  Sir. I think freedom of information generally is another issue, which we will be debating and have debated indeed in the past and will be debating again shortly. I think members do have to draw a clear distinction between advice from, for example, the Treasurer or the Director of Health Services and

legal advice. Legal advice is legal advice and is therefore frequently subjected to test in a court of law. There are differences in the way other jurisdictions handle what I would call normal advice and legal advice, and there need to be those differences and we need to ensure that we protect those differences

in Jersey. As for the Deputy 's question about releasing such information after a period, as I said earlier, that has not so far been discussed. It is something that I will undertake not necessarily to bring back to the

House at this point, but I will undertake to discuss with my Committee and with the Attorney General."

3(h) D eputy J-A. Bridge of St. Helier:

" Wo ul  d the President agree that, in answer to the Deputy of St. John's question, currently information is available under the Public Records Law after 30 years? I believe that is correct. This is off the top of my head. In P.79, it did state and the States agreed that Scrutiny may obtain their own independent legal advice if they wished. Also, if I can squeeze another part into the question, currently, as I understand it, if a Committee makes a decision arising out of legal advice, then that legal advice would feature as part of the agenda, whether it is an A' or a B' Agenda, and currently members would have access to that because we are all part of the Executive in effect. But would he agree that, under the future system, it is currently not clear whether members would continue to have that access to B' information on the basis that only the Executive will be the Executive?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

" M em  bers will have access to absolutely all the information and they will have all the availability of information that they have today. I did stress in my answer that all States members will be able to seek advice on whatever topic they like and all States members will be able to seek advice from the Law Officers' Department."

3(i) D ep uty G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier:

" I  t hi nk the President has clearly outlined 2 scenarios; one where there is pending litigation and a second where either a Minister or the Council of Ministers has determined that the legal advice should be confidential, where it seems fairly clear that States members would not have access to that particular legal advice. What I would like to ask the President is that it is inevitable that there will be disputes and arguments about the imposition of confidentiality of one sort of another, in one example, whether litigation is indeed pending or not or, in the other, whether the Minister or the Council of Ministers have properly taken the decision to make advice confidential. Could I ask the President what mechanism he has in hand or proposes for those types of decision to be challenged by a backbencher?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

"I n   that  event, if I understand correctly, the backbencher could certainly ask the Law Officers if, in their

opinion, the decision of the Committee had been properly taken, so the member has that availability. He has that today and will continue to have that in the future."

S en at or E.P. Vibert :

"I   have  been trying to get your eye for at least every time a question was asked. I have had my light on

now for at least 5 to 10 minutes."

T h e B  ailiff:

" I a m  sorry, Senator, I did not see you, but I am sure another opportunity will arise. We have now debated the Senator's question for 11 minutes and I think we must move on to the next question."

T h e D  eputy of St. John:

" O n   a point of confirmation, or point of order, I was under the impression that the Chair gave the last question to the person who put the question in the first place. Can you confirm that is correct?"

T h e B ailiff:

" T he Chair usually does that, Deputy , but in this case the Chair allowed the questioner to put another question not only at the beginning but in the middle of the supplementary questioning and I think the time has come to move on."

4. T h e D eputy of St. John of the President of the Finance and Economics Committee:

" Woul d the President advise members whether the States of Jersey hold any shares in C.I. Traders Limited and, if so, to what value?"

S en at or T.A. Le Sueur (President of the Finance and Economics Committee):

" I c an confirm that the States of Jersey holds no shares in C.I. Traders Limited. For the sake of completeness, I can also advise that the Greville Bathe and the Don de Faye Trusts, which are not

owned by the States, but which are administered by the Treasurer of the States as a trustee, own between them

3% of the Ordinary Shares of C.I. Traders Limited with a value of £5.3 million."

4(a) T he Deputy of St. John:

"G ive n that the Treasury have responsibility for the Don de Faye Trust and the other trust and there is a

holding in C.I. Traders, is it the Committee's intention to ask that a member of the States take a seat on the board of C.I. Traders; and also, whilst he is answering the question, maybe he may be able to inform members whether or not C.I. Traders are currently in negotiations, given that we supply funding to the dairy industry, in taking over the dairy site at Five Oaks?"

T h e B ailiff:

" N o ,   that last question is out of order, Deputy , because the President has no responsibility for the activities of Channel Island Traders."

T h e D eputy of St. John:

" B ut he does have responsibility, does he not, through administering the Don de Faye Trust and, therefore "

 T h e B ailiff:

 "T he  first part of the question, of the supplementary, is in order, yes."

 T h e D eputy of St. John:  "T ha nk you, Sir."

S en at or T.A. Le Sueur:

" T he Treasurer of the States acts in this capacity as a trustee. His duty as a trustee is to look after the investments and to make appropriate investment decisions. There is no requirement for any trustee to take an active part in the management of a company or to take a seat on the board and, for a holding of 3%, it would be quite unusual in fact. But certainly there is no obligation, no requirement and it is common trustee practice to hold shares in a passive rather than an active capacity."

4(b)  D eputy L.J. Farnham of St. Saviour:

"D oes the President know, or is he able to show the States, who the beneficiaries of the trusts are?"

S en at or T.A. Le Sueur:

"Y es , Sir. The beneficiaries of the Greville Bathe Trust are the sick and the aged of either sex. The Don

de Faye Trust is a relatively small trust and that is to be distributed to the rectors and church wardens of the parish churches."

4(c) D eputy G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier:

"I s t he President aware at what price the current holding of Channel Island Traders shares was acquired

at?"

S en at or T.A. Le Sueur:

"Y es , Sir. The cost value for the Greville Bathe Fund was £669,710 and, for the Don de Faye Trust, the

book value was £65,977.53."

4(d) D eputy G.W.J. de Faye:

"S or r y, Sir, I think I may have misled the President. Rather than know the current value of the portfolio,

I was more interested to know at what price the shares were acquired in order to relate to what the current market price of the shares is."

 S en at or T.A. Le Sueur:

 "I  s hou  ld have said book cost."

 T h e B  ailiff:

 "T ho se are the values which the President gave you."

5. D ep uty R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the President of the Housing Committee:

" Wou ld the President of the Housing Committee indicate whether the Committee is reviewing the

policy whereby former tourist properties, upon development, can be sold off, in part, to non-qualified

residents?"

D ep u ty T.J. Le Main of St. Helier (President of the Housing Committee):

" T he Committee has no policy which specifically allows residential property on former tourist properties to be sold off to non-qualified residents. A developer may choose to sell separate dwellings by share transfer rather than by freehold, in which case the shares may be sold to non-qualified persons, but the dwellings and the accommodation can only be occupied by persons with housing qualifications."

5(a) D eputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

"Woul d the President acknowledge that, in terms of housing supply and demand, the policy of trying to

provide more housing for purchase to local people is being undermined by the possibility that developers, when they cannot sell on the local market, are selling their property to people from overseas?"

D ep u ty T.J. Le Main:

"N o, Sir. As I say, all unqualified lodging accommodation can only be let or rented out. If then sold, it

carries local occupancy conditions and can only be occupied by local people. The popularity with developers of share transfer has grown, Sir, in recent years. There is an advantage to some developers in terms of (a) avoiding stamp duty, and (b) also being able to offer dwellings to a wider market as a buy-to-let investment."

5(b) D eputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

" W oul d the President acknowledge that it might be necessary for him to keep a closer eye on this situation and that the kind of speculative purchases that are apparently taking place at the moment with large developments need to be regulated more closely?"

D ep u ty T.J. Le Main:

" T h e Committee keeps an eye on all of the issues regarding housing, but there is no problem at the present time. The issue has always been in this Island that share transfer property can be purchased by any unqualified people. There are full controls on any kind of developments. When a developer seeks permission from the Housing Department to convert an old tourism premises or commercial premises or other into, say, lodging or unqualified accommodation, should they ever come out of that unqualified accommodation, they can only be sold off and occupied by local occupancies. There is no need to it is fully controlled at the moment."

6. D ep uty R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Vice-President of the Home Affairs Committee:

"W oul d the President state how many, and which, of the recommendations of the Report into Honorary

Police Electoral Practices (the Holland Report) have been implemented and which remain to be implemented?"

C on n étable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen (Vic-ePresident of the Home Affairs Committee):

"Y es , the President has been in consultation with Deputy Le Hérissier over the weekend about this. We do not have an answer at the moment, but we will be forwarding it to him as quickly as we can."

 D ep u ty R.G. Le Hérissier: "Y es , Sir, I accept that."

7. D ep uty C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour of the President of the Environment and Public Service Committee:

"W oul d the President confirm whether the Committee intends to defer implementation of the provision

for third party appeals, notwithstanding 2 existing States' decisions, the first of which granted a full third party right of appeal, and the recent decision which endorsed limited third party appeals?"

S en at or P.F.C. Ozouf (President of the Environment and Public Services Committee):

" I ha ve explained on a number of occasions that the States has no option but to delay the implementation of the third party appeals provisions of the Planning and Building (Jersey) Law 2002 until the necessary funding is in place. I am prepared to confirm it once again. Third party rights will increase the number of appeals. In addition, the relaxation of Royal Court Rules to make the appeals

process less expensive to appellants will also increase the number of appeals. Together they will increase the

costs for both the Royal Court and the Planning Department at a time when no funding has been made available. Until such funding is available – and at this stage we have yet to establish the potential cost implications following the recent States' decision to introduce either measure, work overload, and the appeals process in the Royal Court and in the Department – I cannot say more than that, Sir."

 D ep u ty C.J. Scott Warr en:

 "I t ha nk the President for his answer."

8. S en ator P.F.C. Ozouf of the President of the Economic Development Committee:

" Wo uld the President inform members what action the Committee and/or the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority (JCRA) is taking, if any, following the purchase of Safeway by C.I. Traders Limited?"

D ep u ty F.G. Voisin of St. Lawrence (President of the Economic Development Committee):

" T he Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority (JCRA) is making enquiries to establish whether the acquisition was fully completed before the Competition Law came into effect on 1st May. If not, the parties would be required to obtain the JCRA's approval for the transaction. I understand that the JCRA is expecting to complete its enquiries within the next 2 weeks."

8(a) T he Deputy of St. John:

" G i v en that C.I. Traders have purchased recently a number of supermarkets within the Islands, it has been drawn to my attention that they could also now be looking at the dairy at Five Oaks for the site there. As your Committee is responsible for "

 T h e B ailiff:

 "T hr ough the Chair, please, Deputy ."

T h e D eputy of St. John:

" A s the Economic Development Committee is responsible for the dairy industry through agriculture, can you confirm that, if this is likely to go ahead, would you make sure that this comes to the States for debate?"

D ep u ty F.G. Voisin:

"T he  property at Five Oaks is owned by the Jersey Milk Marketing Board (JMMB) and I do not believe that the States have power to direct the JMMB over to whom they should sell any assets and certainly

this particular site. Therefore, I don't believe it is possible for me to insist upon a States' debate on the sale. What I can say is that the Board are under an obligation to act in the best interests of their producers and they have consulted with the Planning Department to see whether the site would be suitable for a supermarket, and I understand that they were given informal advice that it would not be a suitable site for a supermarket. However, I know that the situation is changing on almost a daily basis."

8(b) S enator P.F.C. Ozouf :

" I am grateful to the President for confirming that the JCRA is investigating the matter. Could he confirm how he intends to communicate the decision of the JCRA in 2 weeks' time? Secondly, does he have any concerns, or does his Committee have any concerns, with the concentration of market power that is now in the hands of one company and is he going to do anything to investigate whether or not he can do anything about limiting that concentration of market power?"

D ep u ty F.G. Voisin:

"A s  f ar as the communication of the JCRA's findings, that is a matter for them and they will make that

public announcement when they are ready. In terms of the market power of any single supermarket operator, I think that it is always a cause for concern where significant market power is held by a single company. However, if there are complaints to be made, then complaints can be made by anyone in the Island to the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority and it will be for the authority to investigate those complaints to establish whether there has been abuse of market position. I think it is also worth saying that to prove the abuse of a market position will, I would imagine, take some time by the JCRA and there is also, I think, evidence – significant evidence – that the people of Jersey would like to see an alternative operator in the Island. The presence of an alternative operator will resolve the issue over whether there is abuse of a market position much more quickly than an investigation by the JCRA."

8(c) T he Deputy of St. John:

" I n r esponse to my earlier question, the President rather fluffed his reply in relation to the Milk Marketing Board. Will the President confirm that the dairy industry is supported by the taxpayer through various grants to the industry and, therefore, those people have an obligation to the States and, therefore, to your Committee – to the President's Committee – that in the event of a sale – a substantial sale of a property like the dairy site to C.I. Traders – that in fact the Economic Development Committee has an obligation to the taxpayers of Jersey to actually bring that particular issue to the States?"

D ep u ty F.G. Voisin:

" I r epea t what I said, which is that I do not believe – and I am willing to check this out, but I don't believe – that the Committee has power of direction over the Jersey Milk Marketing Board. The property belongs to the Board. It does not belong to either the States or the Committee. Therefore, it is not for the Committee to tell the Jersey Milk Marketing Board to whom they can and cannot sell this particular piece of land. I would also suggest to the Deputy , Sir, that there are other potential sites in the Island and other sites that I think the Planning Department will look much more favourably upon if an application was made to convert that site into use as a supermarket."

8(d) D eputy J.J. Huet of St. Helier:

" W e have heard that the Jersey Milk Marketing Board wish to sell its site. Can the President confirm that there is any truth that they will be given a site at the Jersey Farm at Trinity in replacement?"

D ep u ty F.G. Voisin:

" Y es , the Milk Marketing Board wishes to acquire a site that forms part of the Howard Davies Farm area – the land there – and if the Committees concerned are of the mind to sell land to, or indeed grant a long lease to, the Milk Marketing Board, then that proposition would probably have to come before the States. So what the 2 questioners are suggesting is that the Jersey Milk Marketing Board should have an eye on keeping this Assembly content so that we should look positively upon any proposition to sell or lease land to the Milk Marketing Board, and that is an issue that I know that the "

 D ep u ty T.J. Le Main of St. Helier:  "I n t h e countryside."

D ep u ty F.G. Voisin:

" In t he countryside. Well, the ideal site that the Jersey Milk Marketing Board has identified is a site near the Royal Jersey Agricultural and Horticultural Society, and the idea is that there will be synergies between the 2 organisations. Any future proposition will have to come to this Assembly, I would imagine."

8(e) D eputy J.J. Huet:

" If I could just ask one more question on this, the Jersey Milk Marketing Board, I believe, has had the site at Five Oaks from a green field site because it was for Milk Marketing and because it was used by the people and needed by the people of Jersey. Well, okay, so it is a commercial site for milk marketing, but, surely, if they no longer want it for milk marketing, should it not be going back to a green field site?"

D ep u ty F.G. Voisin:

" W el l, I think these are matters for the Planning Committee, Sir. The future of the existing dairy, as I understand it, is that it has already been rezoned as a built-up area, but I am quite sure that any future application to redevelop that site will be considered by the Planning Department in accordance with the normal policies. As far as the new site is concerned, that is precisely why I said in my earlier response that it is a question of if the Committees deem this to be appropriate. I am quite sure that, if the Planning Department felt that it was an inappropriate use of that particular land to build a dairy on that site, then obviously they would not agree to a proposition being brought to the States to sell or lease this site to the Milk Marketing Board."

8(f) S en  ator P.F.C. Ozouf :

" A s  m  y question appears to have been hijacked by the Jersey Milk Marketing Board issue, can I come back to the issue of competition, Sir, and can I ask the President whether or not he would consider

using his powers under the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority Law to request formal advice on the

competition issues in the supermarket sector so that the States could be properly informed of what it should do with this market?"

D ep u ty F.G. Voisin:

"T he Committee has already asked for advice from the JCRA and a report on the retail capacity within

the Island of supermarkets is being drawn up and, indeed, was nearly ready when the Safeway takeover was announced. It was then decided that the report should be updated to reflect this new development, so it will be, I am afraid, probably a couple of months now until we get this advice from the JCRA."

T h e B ailiff:

"B ef or e we move on to the next question, I have had an expression of concern from one member that he

is unable to hear the exchanges between questioners and Presidents on account of other conversations taking place around the Chamber. I request members, if they have other conversations to conduct, that they withdraw to the members' room in order to carry them out."

D ep u ty L.J. Farnham of St. Saviour:

" C oul d I just use this opportunity to say I have an interest in the subject of Question 10, so I will withdraw from the Chamber now."

9. D ep uty G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the President of the Policy and Resources Committee:

" In   a pproximate terms, how much have the States spent on corporate I.T. Development in total to date and in each of the last 5 years, and what steps is the Committee taking to ensure the States are getting value for money and an improvement in service?"

S en at or F.H. Walker (President of the Policy and Resources Committee):

" B ef ore answering, may I apologise to you, the Deputy and the House for not being here when the question was posed in the first place. I was in fact being subjected to informal but intense scrutiny in the Members Room and lost track of time. The answer, of course, has already been given quite fully (or I hope very fully) in a written answer to members, but nevertheless the answer is that, since 1999, the States has spent £16.6 million on corporate I.T. development. In each of the past 5 years we hav spent – £3 million in 2000; £2.4 million in 2001; £2.6 million in 2002; £4.2 million in 2003; and £4 million in 2004. This expenditure in 2004 represents about one per cent of States spending. In term of value for money, the corporate I.T. standards agreed by my Committee set out clear rules for managing projects, and these follow the highest industry standards. Detailed business cases for projects have to be made, requirements are specified and suppliers and services are selected by a tender process. The benefits on which the case has been made are then rigorously tracked and measured. In the presentation given to States members some 4 weeks ago on the change programme, my Committee identified the benefits that would result from integrating the management of technology in the States from reduced support costs, better supply and management, telephone costs, etc, and the benefits to the States from these initiatives and to the public will be significant."

9(a) D eputy G.C.L. Baudains:

" T he President referred to the suppliers and services selected by tender process. I am concerned that, for example, the States' email system has all but collapsed in recent weeks, and the Jersey Legal Information Board (JLIB) site has had certain problems, which is causing concern for the Law Revision Board. I believe the Parishes are still not connected properly – that the system is still not functioning properly. I am not convinced, Sir, that we are getting value for money. I wonder if there is a fault in the tender process, where perhaps those firms who do tender are coming in at a low price with perhaps inferior quality merchandise, which then presents problems later on to rectify. Could the President advise whether his Committee will be looking at this to ensure that we have in fact a better quality service in future?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

"Y e s , Sir, not only will we be looking at it, but we continually look at it. I acknowledge at least some of

the concerns expressed by the Deputy , and my Committee is determined that the service we provide and the support offered by I.T. systems should be of the highest quality. It has to be if we are to make maximum use of it and save as much money as my Committee has targeted us to do."

9(b) T he Deputy of St. Peter:

" W oul d the President explain what procedures, if any, are in place to assess the total spend by individual Committees on I.T. over and above the corporate I.T. vote?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

"Y e s , Sir, the Committee spend on I.T. is evaluated obviously within each Department and with the I.T.

Department in most cases and then it is of course subjected to the decision conference procedure with the Presidents of all the major spending Committees."

9(c) T he Deputy of St. John:

" C o ul d the President tell us who supplies our I.T. equipment to the States and whether I.T. systems is the name of the company or is it a department?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

" I.T . systems is a generic term. It is certainly not the name of any company that I am aware of and certainly not the name of a department. As for who supplies equipment to the States, I cannot answer the Deputy precisely this morning because there are a wide number of suppliers to the States, ranging from relatively small local operations to some of the biggest suppliers in the world, for example Microsoft. So, Sir, if the Deputy would like a full list of suppliers, I am sure I can make that available to him."

9(d) D eputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:

" N o t withstanding the assurances we have received from the I.T. Department on PPC, could the President tell us, Sir, how does his Committee as a political Committee know it has had value for money from the massive investment currently going into I.T.? How do they know they have had value for money?"

S en at or F.H. Walker :

"I t hi nk the only way one can know – and this applies to all organisations that apply and have the use of

I.T. – the only way that one can know is to set very clear objectives and undertake cost/benefit studies before an order is placed and then measure the performance of the system against those agreed objectives, and that is standard practice."

10. T h e Deputy of St. Martin of the President of the Housing Committee:

"D ur ing the debate on P.74/2005, Caledonia Place: Sale of Property, at the States' meeting on 10th May

2005, the President made reference to 2 valuers and a developer who visited the site to value the property. Will the President inform members of the names of the valuers and the developer, when they visited the property and the amount at which they each valued the property?"

D ep u ty T.J. Le Main of St. Helier (President of the Housing Committee):

" C a led onia Place was visited and independently valued for the Housing Committee by both Property Services and William Bull & Company in September 2004 and December 2004 respectively. Property Services valued the property at £525,000 and William Bull & Co at £510,000. Upon my return to the Island late last evening, it was reconfirmed to me by a Director of the Royal Yacht Hotel Group that they had also sought and received an independent valuation of the premises, and this was £525,000. These valuations are considered independent from the Housing Department's own valuation/replacement of the premises or property. I am not prepared to disclose the name of the developer, who, at no public cost, was asked to give an opinion based on his experience as a developer currently selling similar sized flats and accommodation in far better situations, with views and parking, etc. The identity of the individual developer did not influence the valuation or final agreed offer and, of course, the desire to sell the property as being in the best interests of the public and States' tenants. This developer has done much work in the provision of social homes for housing trusts and the States of Jersey."

10(a) The Deputy of St. Martin:

" I hav e 2 supplementary questions. Maybe I can ask the first one. Would the President not consider that, having used the developer to justify his case, does he not think, in the interests of openness and transparency, it is incumbent on him to reveal the name of that developer, particularly as he was a former President of the Freedom of Information Committee?"

 D ep u ty T.J. Le Main:

" N o, Sir. It was on my own initiative that I asked a developer to have a look, to satisfy myself that the property valuations were fair and proper. The Committee met on at least 2 occasions certainly with Senator Ozouf and Deputy Voisin in attendance to make sure that everything was going to order. I am not prepared to name the developer, although I have the name of the developer, which I am quite happy to pass on to the President of Finance and Economics or Policy and Resources, but, no, I am not prepared He gave and volunteered this information at no public cost."

10(b) T he Deputy of St. Martin:

" I thi nk the President half-answered the second supplementary, but I would just ask it again. Could he just confirm then that the decision to invite the developer was on his own initiative and not of that of the Committee?"

D ep u ty T.J. Le Main:

" It w as on my own initiative, after having several valuations, that I decided to ask someone who is involved very much in the day to day actual development and purchasing and what-have-you. It was my own initiative. It certainly wasn't a Committee initiative."

D e put y Lyndon John Farnham of St. Saviour declared an interest and withdrew from the Chamber

during question 10.

11. D eputy C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour of the President of the Environment and Public Service Committee:

" W oul  d the President inform members why he did not request funding at the Presidents' meeting held towards the end of April 2005 for the provision of a limited third party right of appeal when the new Planning and Building (Jersey) Law is brought into force?"

S en at or P.F.C. Ozouf (President of the Environment and Public Services Committee):

" A s I explained to the Assembly on 20th April, when Deputy Scott Warr en successfully brought her amendment to limit the definition of third party appellants in the new law, the Committee, in conjunction with the Finance and Economics Committee and the Royal Court, has yet to establish the costs of implementing the third party appeals and particularly the limited form of third party appeals now approved. Until it has done so, the Committee is not in a position to make a bid for additional funding. Furthermore, the correct process for seeking additional funding is through the States' Resource Plan and not at a Presidents' meeting on 25th April, which had nothing to do with the Fundamental Spending Review. We will, of course, be preparing bids at the first available opportunity."