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States Minutes 28th September 2005

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THE STATES assembled on Wednesday 28th September 2005, at 9.30 a.m. under the Presidency of the Bailiff ,

Sir Philip Bailhache .

All members were present with the exception of

S e nator Richard Joseph Shenton ill

J o hn Baudains Germain, Connétable of St.  Martin – out of the Island D a niel Joseph Murphy, Connétable of Grouville – out of the Island P e ter Nicholas Troy , Deputy of St.  Brelade – ill.

Prayers read by the Acting Dean of Jersey.

Matters presented

The following matters were presented to the States

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): amendment P.162/2005. (P.162/2005  Amd.) comments. Amd.Com. Presented by the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): second amendments P.162/2005. (P.162/2005  Amd.(2)) comments. Amd.(2)Com. Presented by the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): fourth amendments P.162/2005. (P.162/2005  Amd.(4)) comments. Amd.(4)Com. Presented by the Privileges and Procedures Committee.

THE STATES ordered that the said reports be printed and distributed. Arrangement of public business for the present meeting

THE STATES confirmed that the following matters lodged "au Greffe", and set down for consideration at the present meeting, would be considered in the following order on or after 4th October 2005

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey. P.162/2005. Lodged: 9th August 2005.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): amendment. P.162/2005. Lodged: 13th September 2005. Amd. Deputy J.L. Dorey of St.  Helier.

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): amendment P.162/2005. (P.162/2005  Amd.) comments. Amd.Com. Presented: 28th September 2005.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): second amendments. P.162/2005. Lodged: 13th September 2005. Amd.(2) Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier. (re-issue)

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): second amendments P.162/2005. (P.162/2005  Amd.(2)) comments. Amd.(2)Com. Presented: 28th September 2005.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): third amendments. P.162/2005. Lodged: 13th September 2005. Amd.(3) Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): fourth amendments. P.162/2005. Lodged: 20th September 2005. Amd.(4) Senator S. Syvret.

Draft Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.162/2005): fourth amendments P.162/2005. (P.162/2005  Amd.(4)) comments. Amd.(4)Com. Presented: 28th September 2005.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Strategic Travel and Transport Plan. P.174/2005. Lodged: 30th August 2005.

Environment and Public Services Committee.

Strategic Travel and Transport Plan (P.174/2005): comments. P.174/2005. Presented: 27th September 2005. Com. Finance and Economics Committee.

Strategic Travel and Transport Plan (P.174/2005): amendment. P.174/2005. Lodged: 13th September 2005. Amd. Deputy R.G. Le  Hérissier of St.  Saviour.

Strategic Travel and Transport Plan (P.174/2005): amendment (P.174/2005 P.174/2005. Amd.)comments. Amd.Com. Presented: 27th September 2005.

Environment and Public Services Committee.

Strategic Travel and Transport Plan (P.174/2005): second amendment. P.174/2005. Lodged: 20th September 2005. Amd.(2) Deputy M.F. Dubras of St.  Lawrence.

Strategic Travel and Transport Plan (P.174/2005): second amendment P.174/2005. (P.174/2005  Amd.(2)) comments. Amd.(2)Com. Presented: 27th September 2005.

Environment and Public Services Committee.

St.  Helier Waterfront Development: height of buildings – P.158/2005 Comments

THE STATES resumed consideration of a proposition of Deputy Alan Breckon of St. Saviour concerning the St.  Helier Waterfront Development: height of buildings, and, following consideration, rejected a proposition by the Deputy of St.  Martin that, in accordance with Standing Order 26A(1), the question be now put.

Members present voted as follows

POUR: 20 CONTRE: 22 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator L. Norman

Senator T.A. Le  Sueur

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. John

Deputy of St.  Martin

Deputy T.J. Le  Main (H) Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy R.G. Le  Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Bernstein (B) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St.  Mary

Deputy M.A. Taylor (C)


Senator J.A. Le  Maistre Senator S. Syvret

Senator F.H. Walker Senator W. Kinnard Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E.   Vibert Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Deputy of Trinity

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St.  John

Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy J.B. Fox (H) Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy of St.  Ouen Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (H) Deputy of Grouville Deputy of St.  Peter

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy G.W.J. de  Faye (H)

THE STATES, following further consideration, rejected the proposition of Deputy Alan Breckon of St.  Saviour that  any  new  buildings  on  the  St.  Helier  Waterfront  should  not  exceed  6  storeys  in  height  and  that  th Environment and Public Services Committee be requested to take account of this opinion when considering any applications for development in that area.

Members present voted as follows

POUR: 10 CONTRE: 32 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator J.A. Le  Maistre Senator S. Syvret

Senator P.V.F. Le  Claire Senator P.F. Routier Connétable of St. Mary Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H)


Senator L. Norman

Senator F.H. Walker Senator T.A. Le  Sueur Senator M.E.   Vibert Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St.  Martin Deputy T.J. Le  Main (H) Deputy M.F. Dubras(L)

Deputy J.L. Dorey (H)

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J-A. Bridge (H) Deputy J.A. Bernstein (B) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy of St.  Ouen

Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (H) Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy of St.  Peter

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

Deputy G.W.J. de  Faye (H)

Goods and Services Tax: exempt or zero rated items – P.165/2005

THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of Senator Stuart Syvret and, following consideration, rejected paragraph (a) requesting that they refer to their Act dated 13th May 2005, in which they approved the introduction in 2008 of a broad based Goods and Services Tax (GST) at a rate of 3% fixed for 3 years, and to agree to vary that decision in order to exempt or zero rate basic foodstuffs.

Members present voted as follows

POUR: 15 CONTRE: 30 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator J.A. Le  Maistre Senator S. Syvret

Senator W. Kinnard

Deputy A. Breckon (S)

Deputy J.J. Huet (H)

Deputy of St.  John

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H)

Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy J.A. Bernstein (B) Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (H) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)


Senator L. Norman

Senator F.H. Walker Senator T.A. Le  Sueur Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E.   Vibert Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable  of St.  Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy of St.  Martin Deputy T.J. Le  Main (H) Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy F.G. Voisin (L) Deputy L.J. Farnham (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St.  Mary

Deputy of St.  Ouen

Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of St.  Peter

Deputy G.W.J. de  Faye (H)

THE STATES rejected paragraph  (b) requesting that theyrefer to their Act dated 13th May 2005, in which they approved the introduction in 2008 of a broad based Goods and Services Tax (GST) at a rate of 3% fixed for 3  years, and to agree to vary that decision in order to exempt or zero ratechildren's clothing.

Members present voted as follows

POUR: 12 CONTRE: 33 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator J.A. Le  Maistre Senator S. Syvret

Senator W. Kinnard

Deputy A. Breckon (S)

Deputy of St.  John

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy C.J. Scott   Warr en (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H)

Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy J.A. Bernstein (B) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)


Senator L. Norman

Senator F.H. Walker

Senator T.A. Le  Sueur

Senator P.F. Routier

Senator M.E.   Vibert

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. John

Deputy of Trinity

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H)

Deputy of St.  Martin

Deputy T.J. Le  Main (H) Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H)

Deputy F.G. Voisin  (L) Deputy L.J. Farnham (S) Deputy R.G. Le  Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St.  Mary

Deputy of St.  Ouen

Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (H) Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of St.  Peter

Deputy G.W.J. de  Faye (H)

THE STATES rejected paragraph (c) requesting that they refer to their Act dated 13th May 2005, in which they approved the introduction in 2008 of a broad based Goods and Services Tax (GST) at a rate of 3% fixed for 3  years, and to agree to vary that decision in order to exempt or zero rate medical services and products.

Members present voted as follows

POUR: 17 CONTRE: 28 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator J.A. Le  Maistre Senator L. Norman Senator S. Syvret Senator F.H. Walker Senator W. Kinnard Senator T.A. Le  Sueur Connétable of St. Clement Senator P.F. Routier Deputy A. Breckon (S) Senator M.E.   Vibert

Deputy of St.  John

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

Deputy J.A. Martin (H)

Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy J.A. Bernstein (B) Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (H) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy of St.  Peter

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)


Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St.  Martin Deputy T.J. Le  Main (H) Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy F.G. Voisin (L) Deputy L.J. Farnham (S) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St.  Mary

Deputy of St.  Ouen

Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy G.W.J. de  Faye (H)

THE STATES rejected paragraph  (d) requesting that they refer to their Act dated 13th May 2005, in which they approved the introduction in 2008 of a broad based Goods and Services Tax (GST) at a rate of 3% fixed for 3  years, and to agree to vary that decision in order to exempt or zero rate books and newspapers.

Members present voted as follows

POUR: 9 CONTRE: 37 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator S. Syvret

Senator W. Kinnard

Senator P.V.F. Le  Claire Deputy A. Breckon (S)

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H)

Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of Grouville


Senator J.A. Le  Maistre Senator L. Norman

Senator F.H. Walker Senator T.A. Le  Sueur Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E.   Vibert Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy J.J. Huet (H) Deputy of St.  Martin Deputy of St.  John

Deputy T.J. Le  Main (H) Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H)

Deputy F.G. Voisin (L) Deputy L.J. Farnham (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

Deputy J.A. Bernstein (B) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St.  Mary

Deputy of St.  Ouen

Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (H) Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of St.  Peter

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

Deputy G.W.J. de  Faye (H)

Changes in Presidency

The Bailiff retired from the Chair during consideration of the proposition of Senator Stuart Syvret concerning Goods and Services Tax: exempt or zero rated items, (P.165/2005 lodged "au Greffe" on 16th August 2005), and the meeting continued under the Presidency of Mr. Michael Nelson de la Haye, Greffier of the States.

The Deputy Bailiff assumed the presidency prior to members voting on the proposition of Senator Stuart Syvret concerning Goods and Services Tax: exempt or zero rated items, (P.165/2005 lodged "au Greffe" on 16th August 2005), and the meeting continued under his presidency.

Deputy Celia Joyce Scott Warr en of St. Saviour– attendance

Deputy Celia Joyce Scott Warr en of St. Saviour, having recovered from earlier illness, arrivedin the Chamber during consideration of the proposition of Senator Stuart Syvret concerning Goods and Services Tax: exempt or zero rated items, (P.165/2005 lodged "au Greffe" on 16th August 2005), and was present for the remainder of the meeting.

Draft Licensing (Licence Fees) (Jersey) Regulations 200- P.173/2005 Comments

THE STATES, in pursuance of Article  11 of the Licensing (Jersey) Law 1974, made Regulations entitled the Licensing (Licence Fees) (Jersey) Regulations 2005.

Welcome to Mr. Christopher Swinson, Comptroller and Auditor General

The Deputy Bailiff , on behalf of all members, welcomed to the States Mr. Christopher Swinson, recently appointed Comptroller and Auditor General.

St. Helier Waterfront; telephone poll – Committee of Inquiry – P.167/2005

THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of Deputy Gerard Clifford Lemmens Baudains of St. Clement, concerning the St. Helier Waterfront: telephone poll– Committee of Inquiry, and, following consideration, rejected a proposition by Senator Leonard Norman that the States move to the consideration of the next item on the Order Paper, there being less than twenty members voting in support of the proposition as required under Standing Order 27(3).

Members present voted as follows

POUR: 18

Senator L. Norman

Senator F.H. Walker Senator T.A. Le  Sueur Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. John Deputy T.J. Le  Main (H)

Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy F.G. Voisin (L) Deputy of St.  Mary Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy of Grouville Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy G.W.J. de  Faye (H)


CONTRE: 16

Senator J.A. Le  Maistre Senator W. Kinnard

Senator P.V.F. Le  Claire Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Mary Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S) Deputy of St.  Martin

Deputy of St.  John

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en (S)

Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St.  Ouen

Deputy of St.  Peter


ABSTAIN: 2

Senator P.F. Routier Senator M.E.   Vibert

THE STATES, following further consideration, adopted the proposition of Deputy Gerard Clifford Lemmens Baudains of St. Clement, and,in accordance with Article 36B of the States of Jersey Law 1966, approved the appointment of a Committee of Inquiry to investigate the circumstances surrounding the attempt to distort the result of the telephone poll on the St. Helier Waterfront development organised by the Jersey Evening Post on 5th August 2005.

Members present voted as follows

POUR: 28 CONTRE: 14 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator J.A. Le  Maistre Senator S. Syvret

Senator F.H. Walker

Senator W. Kinnard

Senator P.V.F. Le  Claire Senator  P.F. Routier

Senator  M.E.   Vibert Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Mary Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy A. Breckon (S)

Deputy J.J. Huet (H)

Deputy of St.  Martin

Deputy of St.  John

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

Deputy J.A. Martin (H)

Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy J.A. Bernstein (B) Deputy S.C. Ferguson (B) Deputy of St.  Mary


Senator L. Norman

Senator T.A. Le  Sueur Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. John Deputy of Trinity

Deputy M.F. Dubras (L) Deputy J.L. Dorey (H) Deputy F.G. Voisin (L) Deputy M.A. Taylor (C) Deputy G.W.J. de  Faye (H)

Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (H) Deputy of Grouville Deputy of St.  Peter Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

Adjournment

THE STATES then adjourned, having agreed to reconvene the next day, Thursday 29th September 2005, in order to continue consideration of the outstanding matters of public business.

THE STATES rose at 5.45 p.m.

A.H. HARRIS Deputy Greffier of the States.