PPC Minutes 20th November 2009

A-CH/SC/343  138

PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE (41st Meeting)

20th November 2009

PART A

All members were present, with the exception of Deputy J.A. Martin and Deputy M. Tadier , from whom apologies had been received.

Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary, Chairman

Senator B.I. Le Marquand (not present for the conclusion of item No. A3, and item Nos. A4 to A11 inclusive)

Deputy J.B. Fox

Deputy C.H. Egré

Deputy M.R. Higgins

In attendance -

M.N. de la Haye, Greffier of the States

Mrs. A.H. Harris , Deputy Greffier of the States

Mrs. D. Abbot-McGuire, Finance and Administration Manager (item No. A2 only)

Miss A-C. Heuston, Clerk to the Privileges and Procedures Committee

Note: The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A and Part B.

Minutes. A1.  The Minutes of the meetings of 9th October 2009 (Parts A and B); 14th

October 2009 (Part A only) and 22nd October (Part A only), having been previously circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed.

States Assembly A2.  The Committee received the States Assembly 3rd quarter 2009 financial report, 3rd Quarter and welcomed Mrs. D. Abbot-McGuire, Finance and Administration Manager. Report.

422/10/1(80) The Committee noted the predicted under-spend of £297,964 for 2009. It was also

noted that improvements to the public gallery in the States Chamber had resulted in a predicted overspend of £16,802 on Members' facilities.

The Committee requested a breakdown of the figures detailed in the report and Mrs.  Abbot-McGuire  agreed  to  circulate  the  information  requested  to  the Committee in early course. The Chairman thanked Mrs. Abbot-McGuire for her attendance, and she withdrew from the meeting.

Efficiency during A3.  The Committee received a report in connexion with efficiency during States States sittings. sittings, as well as correspondence from the Chief Minister, dated 26th October 2009, 465/1(136) concerning minimum lodging periods for propositions.

The  Committee  considered  the  Chief  Minister's  request  that  an  amendment  to Standing  Orders  be  lodged au  Greffe' seeking  to  extend  the  minimum  lodging period for private members' propositions from 2 weeks to 4 or 6 weeks. It was agreed that the question of lodging periods for individual members formed part of a larger body of work which would be required in order to improve the overall efficiency of States sittings.

It was agreed that a States Business Organisation Sub-group should be established to consider efficiency. Of those present at the meeting, Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary, Deputy C.H. Egré and Deputy J.B. Fox volunteered for membership of the sub-group, and other members with other commitments agreed to attend meetings whenever available to do so. It was agreed that the following areas would be among those examined by the sub-group:

1. m inimum lodging periods, in particular the twoweek lodging period;
2. l ength of speeches;
3. l ength of debates;
4. p rogrammingand timetabling of public business;
5. t henumberof propositions andamendments being lodged for debate;
6. m embers' ability to give full and effective consideration and responses to propositions andamendments;
7. t he possible introduction of a mechanism for gauging support before lodging propositions;
8. c ontentof speeches, repetition, interruptions; and
9. th e orderofbusinessonStatesdays.

It was also agreed that States members should be invited to attend hearings between 11th and 15th January 2010 to give their views and suggestions as to how efficiency could be improved.

The Committee noted time limits on speeches and limits on the number of propositions lodged by individual members in other jurisdictions. Deputy Higgins advised that he considered time limits on speeches to be anti-democratic, and would not support such a move. The Committee discussed the number of propositions lodged au Greffe' and the number of States sittings per annum, and noted that there had been a 22 per cent increase in the number of projets from 2007 to 2008. The Committee discussed the function of the Committee system of government in comparison with the Ministerial system and considered that an investigation could be undertaken to compare the two.

Meanwhile, it was agreed that the Chairman would work pro-actively with the Greffier to order business more effectively in accordance with Standing Order 31(3). The Committee also agreed that a standard format should be developed for all reports accompanying legislative propositions.

It was agreed that an invitation should be extended to all States members to attend the hearings in January 2010. The Chairman was also requested to write to the Chief Minister to advise him of the Committee's decision.

Blackberries: A4. The Committee considered the proposition entitled, Blackberries: costs for costs for Ministers and Assistant Ministers and use in the Assembly,' lodged au Greffe' on Ministers and 29th October 2009 by Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier (P.186/2009 refers). Assistant

Ministers and use The  Committee  noted  that  part  (a)  of  the  proposition  asked  that  the  cost  of in the Assembly Blackberries and call charges for Ministers and Assistant Ministers be reclaimed (P.186/2009). from the relevant member's expenses. The Committee agreed that Ministers' and 1240/26(9) Assistant  Ministers' Blackberries  should  be  for  business  use  only  and  that  a

mechanism should be established to ensure that private and business uses remained separate. The Committee, with reference to its Minute No A2 of 17th July 2009, also recalled that all States members would be invited to take advantage of the corporate rate negotiated for Blackberries by the Information Services Department.

In respect of part (b) of the proposition, which requested that the use of Blackberries in the States Chamber during sittings be banned, the Committee had had regard for Standing Order 99(1) Behaviour of members during meeting'. It noted that part (b) of the proposition only concerned the use of Blackberries, and that it would not prevent other electronic devices from being used in the States Chamber provided that they did not cause a disturbance. The Committee considered the use of computers, personal digital assistants and Blackberries in parliaments in other jurisdictions and recognised that new technology, and attitudes towards it, were still evolving.

It was agreed that a comment to this effect should be drafted for presentation to the States in early course.

The Committee Clerk was directed to take the necessary action.

Move to next A5.  The Committee considered the proposition entitled, Move to next item: repeal item: repeal of of Standing Order 85,' lodged au Greffe' on 3rd November 2009 by Deputy P.V.F. Standing Order Le Claire of St. Helier (P.187/2009 refers).

85 (P.187/2009).

450/2/1(20) The Committee noted that the principal use for Standing Order 85 was to move to the

next item where members felt uneasy either to vote for a proposition or to vote against it, and that it had been increasingly rarely used. The Committee was advised of the function of Standing Order 85. It was noted that, as a safeguard against misuse, not less than 20 members had to vote in favour of a move to the next item for it to be adopted. As with a proposal for a reference back, if the States adopted a proposal to move to the next item, the proposer did not need to withdraw the proposition, but could ask that it be debated, without re-lodging, at a future sitting. In conclusion, the Committee agreed that there was a valid use for Standing Order 85 and considered that to repeal it would limit the options available to members.

It was agreed that a comment to this effect should be drafted for presentation to the States in early course.

The Committee Clerk was directed to take the necessary action.

States Members' A6.  The  Committee,  with  reference  to  its  Minute  No.  A6  of  17th  July  2009, Remuneration received correspondence from the Chairman of the States Members' Remuneration Review Body Review  Body,  Mr.  J.  Rogers,  dated  27th  October  2009,  in  connexion  with  the recommenda- possible introduction of a pension scheme for States members.

tions for 2009 to

2011: pension The  Committee  recalled  that  the recommendations  of  the  States  Members' scheme. 1240/3 Remuneration Review Body for 2009 to 2011 had been presented to the States in (85) June 2009 by the Committee, and had included a proposal that pension arrangements

should be introduced for States members (R.62/2009  refers). The Chairman had written  to  Mr.  Rogers  on  22nd  July  2009  to  request  that  the  States  Members' Remuneration  Review  Body  reconvene  to  give  further  consideration  to  the development of a pension scheme.

The  Committee  discussed  the  3  different  categories  of  scheme  outlined  by  Mr. Rogers in his response of 27th October 2009 and agreed that a scheme should be introduced  whereby  the  States  would  make  matched  contributions  to  individual States members' private pension schemes. It was agreed that the Committee would engage with States members to ascertain whether or not this would be an appropriate way forward.

It was agreed that a report should be drafted to this effect, for presentation to the States in early course, and that comments on the proposal should be invited until Friday 29th January 2010.

The Committee Clerk was directed to take the necessary action.

Review of States A7.  The Committee, with reference to its Minute No. A4 of 9th October 2009, appointments. received  correspondence  from  the  Chief  Minister,  dated  26th  October  2009,  in 1240/6(55) connexion with States appointments.

The Committee noted that it was awaiting a response from the Council of Ministers, which had been scheduled to consider the Committee's draft report and proposition to introduce revised procedures for appointments made by the States at its meeting of 12th November 2009.

Defibrillator. A8.  The  Committee  received  correspondence  from   Deputy  J.B. Fox  dated  3rd 1240/9/1(137) November 2009 in connexion with the possible purchase of a defibrillator, to be

placed in the members' area of the States Building.

The Committee endorsed the purchase of a defibrillator and agreed that States members should be invited to volunteer to be trained in its use.

States Members' A9.  The Committee noted e-mail correspondence, dated 2nd November 2009, from Remuneration Advocate C. Lakeman, tendering his resignation with immediate effect from the Review Body: States Members' Remuneration Review Body.

resignation of

Advocate The Chairman was requested to write a letter of thanks to Advocate Lakeman, Lakeman. and seek the advice of the Chairman of the Review Body as to whether a further 1240/3(73) member should be recruited to assist the Review Body going forward.

Identity cards for A10.  The Committee received a report and related correspondence in connexion with States members. the possible introduction of identity cards for States members and access to Morier 465/1(76) House.

The Committee received e-mail correspondence, dated Thursday 29th October 2009, from   Deputy  M.   Tadier ,  which  requested  that  consideration  be  given  to  the introduction of identity cards for all States members. The Deputy also requested further information in respect of the process for issuing passes to Morier House. The Committee noted that States members who wished to have access to the scrutiny area of Morier House  were required to  notify  the Scrutiny Manager and to agree to Property Holdings' conditions on the issuing of access fobs. They would then be issued with a pass for that area. It was agreed that Deputy M.R. Higgins would advise the Chairmen's Committee in this regard.

With  regard  to  the  possible  provision  of  identity  cards  for  States  members,  the Committee  noted  the  Minutes  of  the  Privileges  and  Procedures  Committee,  as previously constituted, dated 3rd May 2006 (item No. A11), 3rd October 2007 (item No. A2), 17th October 2007 (item No. A2) and 23rd January 2008 (item No. A7). It was  agreed  that  research  should  be  carried  out  into  the  cost  of  producing identity cards for States members.

The Committee Clerk was directed to take the necessary action.

Work A11.  The Committee received a report which set out details of its ongoing work programme: programme.

Privileges and

Procedures The Committee noted the substantive items for consideration at its next meeting. It Committee. also noted the following matters arising:

465/1(110)

1. T he Chairman askedmembers to respond to theire-mails on a dailybasis and requested that they provideadvancenoticeif they were unableto attend a meeting. Itwasalsonoted that theCommittee had received e- mail  correspondence, dated 13th  November 2009, from   Deputy  M. Tadier , whohad advised that he wouldno longer be available to attend lunch-time meetings.
2. T  heCommittee, with reference to its MinuteNo.A4of22ndOctober 2009, gave further consideration to the proposition entitled: Provision of States Members' lunches at certain meetings and car parking, lodged au Greffe' on 7th October2009bySenatorS.C. Ferguson (P.171/2009 refers) andasked the Chairmanto request Senator Ferguson to defer the debate.