Skip to main content

States Minutes 17th November 2009

The official version of this document can be found via the PDF button.

The below content has been automatically generated from the original PDF and some formatting may have been lost, therefore it should not be relied upon to extract citations or propose amendments.

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday 17th November 2009, at 09.30 a.m. under the Presidency of the Deputy Bailiff , William James Bailhache , Esquire. __________________

His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor, Lieutenant-General Andrew Peter Ridgway, C.B., C.B.E., was present

__________________

All members were present at roll call with the exception of –

Senator Stuart Syvret – en défaut

Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf – absent on States business

Senator Frederick Ellyer Cohen – en défaut

Connétable Michael Keith Jackson of St. Brelade – en défaut (défaut raised at 10.54 a.m.)

__________________

Prayers read by the Deputy Greffier of the States __________________

Connétable of St. John – re-election

The Deputy Bailiff , on behalf of all members, congratulated Mr. Graeme Frank Butcher on his re- election as the Connétable of St. John .

Documents presented or laid

Committee of Inquiry: confidential files held by States of Jersey Police on States  P.104/2009. Members and others (P.104/2009) – comments.  Com.(2) Presented: 17th November 2009.

Minister for Home Affairs.

Draft Gambling Commission (Jersey) Law 200- (P.139/2009): amendment  P.139/2009. (P.139/2009 Amd.) – comments.  Amd.Com. Presented: 16th November 2009.

Minister for Economic Development.

Draft Gambling (Gaming and Lotteries) (Amendment No. 15) (Jersey) Regulations 200-  P.140/2009. (P.140/2009): amendment (P.140/2009 Amd.) – comments.  Amd.Com. Presented: 16th November 2009.

Minister for Economic Development.

Draft Gambling (2010 Fees) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.141/2009): amendment  P.141/2009. (P.141/2009 Amd.) – comments.  Amd.Com. Presented: 16th November 2009.

Minister for Economic Development.

605   Price code: B

STATES MINUTES  17th November 2009

Young Offenders: naming by the media (P.148/2009) – comments.  P.148/2009. Presented: 16th November 2009.  Com.(2) H.M. Attorney General.

Young Offenders: naming by the media (P.148/2009) – comments.  P.148/2009. Presented: 16th November 2009.  Com.(3) Minister for Health and Social Services.

Social Security Fund: research into alternative funding mechanisms (P.153/2009) –  P.153/2009. comments.  Com. Presented: 16th November 2009.

Chief Minister.

States of Jersey Complaints Board: findings – complaint against a decision of the  R.123/2009. Minister for Housing regarding a refusal to grant housing qualifications.

Presented: 10th November 2009.

Privileges and Procedures Committee.

Land Transactions under Standing Order 168(3) – No. 1 Howard Davis Farm, La Route  R.124/2009. de la Trinité, Trinity – lease.

Presented: 10th November 2009.

Minister for Treasury and Resources.

Land Transactions under Standing Order 168(3) –  R.125/2009.

  1. Flats 2, 4, 5, 6 and 15, Fourteen Gloucester Street, St. Helier – lease;
  2. JEC Substation No. 283, Le Mont Rossignol, St. Ouen .

Presented: 11th November 2009.

Minister for Treasury and Resources.

Policy Statement for regulation of gambling in Jersey.  R.126/2009. Presented: 16th November 2009.

Minister for Economic Development.

Rental Deposit Scheme to protect tenants' deposits: Response of the Minister for  R.127/2009. Housing to the approval by the States of P.130/2009.

Presented: 17th November 2009.

Minister for Housing.

States of Jersey Law 2005: delegation of functions – Assistant Minister for Treasury and  R.128/2009. Resources.

Presented: 17th November 2009.

Minister for Treasury and Resources.

Notification of lodged propositions

Draft Gambling (2010 Fees) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.141/2009): second amendment.  P.141/2009. Lodged: 17th November 2009.  Amd.(2) Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence .

H1N1 Influenza Pandemic Funding: expenditure approval (P.174/2009) – amendment.  P.174/2009. Lodged: 12th November 2009.  Amd. Public Accounts Committee.

H1N1 Influenza Pandemic Funding: expenditure approval (P.174/2009) – second amendment.

Lodged: 16th November 2009.

Minister for Treasury and Resources.


P.174/2009. Amd.(2)

Employment of States of Jersey Employees Law: proposed changes (P.175/2009) –  P.175/2009. amendment.  Amd. Lodged: 11th November 2009.

Chief Minister.

Draft Supply of Goods and Services (Jersey) Regulations 200-.  P.190/2009. Lodged: 11th November 2009.

Minister for Economic Development.

Rate Appeal Board: appointment of members.  P.191/2009. Lodged: 11th November 2009.

Minister for Treasury and Resources.

Jersey Police Complaints Authority: appointment of members.  P.192/2009. Lodged: 12th November 2009.

Minister for Home Affairs.

User Pays' Charges: Immigration fees.  P.193/2009. Lodged: 17th November 2009.

Minister for Home Affairs.

States of Jersey Law: Quorum in the States.  P.194/2009. Lodged: 17th November 2009.

Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier .

Jersey New Waterworks Company Limited: report of Jersey Competition Regulatory  P.195/2009. Authority on outsourcing.

Lodged: 17th November 2009.

Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier .

Review of the roles of the Bailiff , Attorney General and Solicitor General: appointment  P.196/2009 of Chairman and members of the Review Panel.  (re-issue). Lodged: 17th November 2009.

Council of Ministers.

Committee of Inquiry: confidential files held by States of Jersey Police on States  P.197/2009. Members and others.

Lodged: 17th November 2009.

Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier .

Withdrawal of lodged propositions

THE STATES noted that, in accordance with Standing Order 34(1), the proposer of the following proposition lodged "au Greffe" had informed the Greffier of the States that it had been withdrawn –

Committee of Inquiry: confidential files held by States of Jersey Police on States Members and others.

Lodged: 23rd June 2009.

Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier .


P.104/2009.

Written Questions

(see Official Report/Hansard)

The Chief Minister tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier regarding law suits against the States in the last 5 years.

The Chief Minister tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier regarding leases signed by WEB for leisure facilities on the Waterfront.

The Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier regarding shops permitted to open on a Sunday.

The Minister for Treasury and Resources tabled an answer to a question asked by the Connétable of St. John regarding the supply of duty free fuel for marine and commercial use.

The Minister for Health and Social Services tabled an answer to a question asked by Senator S.C. Ferguson regarding the recruitment and retention of middle grade doctors.

The Minister for Health and Social Services tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier regarding serious case reviews.

The Minister for Treasury and Resources tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier regarding reductions in water rates.

The Minister for Health and Social Services tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour regarding the suspension and dismissal of staff in relation to child abuse matters.

The Chief Minister tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour regarding the final pay settlement of the Chief Executive Officer of Health and Social Services.

H.M. Attorney General tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier regarding the supply of Blackberry mobile phones to Ministers and Assistant Ministers.

The Chief Minister tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier regarding supply of Blackberry mobile phones to members of the Executive.

The Chief Minister tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier regarding bills for Blackberry mobile phones.

The Minister for Treasury and Resources tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier regarding the tax intake from 1(1)(k) residents.

H.M. Attorney General tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier regarding confidentiality issues.

The Chief Minister tabled an answer to a question asked by the Deputy of St. Martin regarding the independent review of the 3 year suspension of a Consultant Gynaecologist.

The Minister for Treasury and Resources tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier regarding the dividends on shareholdings in the Jersey New Waterworks Company Limited.

The Minister for Health and Social Services tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour regarding serious case reviews.

The Minister for Economic Development tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier regarding the level of water rates and charges by the Jersey New Waterworks Company Limited.

The Minister for Social Security tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier regarding redundancies at the Jersey New Waterworks Company Limited.

The Chief Minister tabled an answer to a question asked by Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier regarding the Deloitte estimate of lost tax revenues given in the Foot Report.

The Minister for Transport and Technical Services tabled an answer to a question asked by the Deputy of St. Mary regarding the number of damage-only accidents on the Island's road network.

The Minister for Treasury and Resources tabled an answer to a question asked by the Deputy of St. Mary regarding data protection.

The Chairman of Privileges and Procedures Committee tabled an answer to a question asked by Senator J.L. Perchard regarding limiting propositions and lengths of speeches.

Oral Questions

(see Official Report/Hansard)

The Deputy of St. Martin asked a question of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the suspension of the Chief Officer of the States of Jersey Police.

THE STATES rejected a proposition of the Minister for Home Affairs that the Assembly should consider both of the oral questions tabled at the present meeting in relation to the suspension of the Chief Officer of the States of Jersey Police in camera'. The questions were therefore answered in public assembly.

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 21 CONTRE: 26 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator T.A. Le Sueur Senator P.F. Routier Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator A.J.D. Maclean Senator B.I. Le Marquand Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of St. Ouen Deputy of St. Peter


Senator T.J. Le Main

Senator B.E. Shenton

Senator J.L. Perchard

Senator A. Breckon

Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity

Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. John

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy of St. Mary Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy A.T. Dupré (C) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy D. De Sousa (H)


Connétable of St. Saviour

Connétable of St. Clement

Connétable of St. Peter

Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary

Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy I.J. Gorst (C)

Deputy of St. John

Deputy A.E. Jeune (B)

Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)

Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)

Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour asked a question of the Chief Minister regarding the proposed redundancies of a quarter of Jersey Telecoms employees and 20 Jersey New Waterworks employees.

The Deputy of Grouville asked a question of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding licensed premises seeking proof of identity and identity fraud.

Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier asked a question of the Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the funding mechanisms and support from the States of Jersey provided to the Jersey Homes Trust.

Deputy D.J. de Sousa of St. Helier asked a question of the Minister for Social Security regarding the conformity of the actions of Jersey New Waterworks Company Limited with the conditions laid out in the Employment (Jersey) Law 2003.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour asked a question of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the suspension of the Chief Officer of Police.

Deputy S. Pitman of St. Helier asked a question of the Minister for Social Security regarding the impact of Long Term Incapacity Allowance increases on Income Support.

The Deputy of St. John asked a question of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the registration and staffing of charter and fishing vessels.

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power of St. Brelade asked a question of the Assistant Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding defective vehicles.

Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier asked a question of the Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the redundancies at Jersey Telecom.

Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier asked a question of the Minister for Economic Development regarding Jayen's ownership and staff.

The Deputy of St. John asked a question of the Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the redundancy rights of the staff at Jersey Telecom.

The Deputy of St. Martin asked a question of the Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the compatibility of the Draft Data Protection (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Law 200- with the Human Rights (Jersey) Law 2000.

Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier asked a question of the Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the estimated cost in lost tax in respect of the redundancies at Jersey Telecom.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour asked a question of the Chief Minister regarding the source from which staff under suspension were paid.

Oral Questions without notice (see Official Report/Hansard)

The Minister for Economic Development answered questions without notice from members. The Chief Minister answered questions without notice from members.

Personal statements

The Deputy of St. Mary made a statement regarding comments made during the debate on the Depositor's Compensation Scheme (P.86/2009).

Statements on a matter of official responsibility (see Official Report/Hansard)

The Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s made a statement regarding the use of warrant cards by the Connétable s.

The Minister for Health and Social Services made a statement regarding the H1N1 Flu outbreak. Manual Workers' Joint Council: membership P.172/2009

THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of the Chief Minister concerning the membership of the Manual Workers' Joint Council (P.172/2009 lodged au Greffe' on 12th October 2009).

Roll call

Following the lunchtime adjournment the Deputy Bailiff , in accordance with Standing Order 56(2), directed that elected members be summoned as the Assembly was inquorate. In accordance with Standing Order 56(2), having allowed such time as he considered reasonable for elected members to return to the Chamber, the Presiding Officer asked the Greffier to call the roll, as he believed that the States remained inquorate. The following members who had been marked as present during the morning were absent from the Chamber for this second roll call –

Senator Terence John Le Main

Senator James Leslie Perchard

Senator Alan John Henry Maclean

Connétable Alan Simon Crowcroft of St. Helier

Connétable John Le Sueur Gallichan of Trinity

Connétable Michael Keith Jackson of St. Brelade

Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier

Deputy James Gordon Reed of St. Ouen

Deputy John Alexander Nicholas Le Fondré of St. Lawrence Deputy Shona Pitman of St. Helier

Deputy Ian Joseph Gorst of St. Clement

Deputy Montfort Tadier of St. Brelade

Deputy Michael Roderick Higgins of St. Helier

Manual Workers' Joint Council: membership P.172/2009

THE STATES, having resumed consideration of a proposition of the Chief Minister, agreed to refer to their Act of 9th November 1961, (amended by Act of the States on 14th September 2006) approving the constitution of a Manual Workers' Joint Council on the basis set out in ANNEX B to that Act, and approved the following amendments –

In Section 3 – Membership of the constitution –

  1. in the first line of paragraph 3(a), the number "10"should be deleted and the number "12" inserted ;
  2. in the first line of paragraph 3(a), the number "5" should be deleted and the number "6" inserted;
  3. in the third line of paragraph 3(a), the number "5" should be deleted and the number "6" inserted;
  1. in the second line of paragraph 3(b), the word "Four" should be deleted and the word "five" inserted;
  2. in the first and second line of paragraph 3(c), the words "Transport and General Workers' Union" should be deleted and "Unite the Union" inserted.

In Appendix A1 of ANNEX B – Union Membership –

  1. in the sixth line of (b), the word "five" should be deleted and the number "six" inserted;
  2. in the seventh line of (b), the words "Transport and General Workers' Union" should be deleted and "Unite the Union" inserted;
  3. in the second line of (c), the words "Transport and General Workers' Union" should be deleted and "Unite the Union" inserted;
  4. in the first and third lines of (d), the words "Transport and General Workers' Union" should be deleted and "Unite the Union" inserted.

In Appendix B of ANNEX B – Rules for the Conduct of Business –

  1. In the first line of paragraph 7, the word "four" should be deleted and the word "six" inserted;
  1. in the first and second line of paragraph 7, the word "two" in both cases should be deleted and the word "three" inserted.

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 44 CONTRE: 4 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator T.A. Le Sueur Senator P.F. Routier

Senator T.J. Le Main Senator B.E. Shenton Senator J.L. Perchard Senator A. Breckon

Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator A.J.D. Maclean Senator B.I. Le Marquand Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. John Connétable of St. Saviour Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B) Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy I.J. Gorst (C) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy A.E. Jeune (B) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy A.T. Dupré (C) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)


Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy S. Pitman (H)

Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy D. De Sousa (H)

Public Holidays and Bank Holidays: designation of 26th December 2009 P.173/2009

THE STATES rejected a proposition of Deputy Shona Pitman of St. Helier to refer to their Act dated 8th October  2009  in  which  they  agreed  to  transfer  the  Boxing  Day  bank holiday from Saturday 26th December 2009 to Monday 28th December 2009 and –

  1. to agree that Saturday 26th December 2009 should be designated as an extra Public and Bank Holiday for 2009 in addition to 28th December 2009 to enable Islanders who did not work only between Monday and Friday to benefit from this holiday; and
  2. to request the Chief Minister to bring forward for approval the necessary Act under the Public Holidays and Bank Holidays (Jersey) Law 1951 to give effect to the decision.

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 14   CONTRE: 33  ABSTAIN: 1 Deputy of St. Martin   Senator T.A. Le Sueur   Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy J.A. Martin (H)   Senator P.F. Routier

Deputy G.P. Southern (H)   Senator T.J. Le Main

Deputy of Grouville   Senator B.E. Shenton

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)   Senator J.L. Perchard

Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H)   Senator A. Breckon

Deputy S. Pitman (H)   Senator S.C. Ferguson

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)   Senator A.J.D. Maclean

Deputy M. Tadier (B)   Senator B.I. Le Marquand

Deputy T.M. Pitman (H)   Connétable of St. Ouen

Deputy M.R. Higgins (H)   Connétable of St. Helier

Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)   Connétable of Trinity

Deputy D. De Sousa (H)   Connétable of St. Brelade

Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)   Connétable of St. Martin

  Connétable of St. John

  Connétable of St. Saviour

  Connétable of St. Clement

  Connétable of St. Peter

  Connétable of St. Lawrence

  Connétable of St. Mary

  Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)

  Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S)

  Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

  Deputy of St. Ouen

  Deputy of St. Peter

  Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L)

  Deputy of Trinity

  Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)

  Deputy I.J. Gorst (C)

  Deputy of St. John

  Deputy A.E. Jeune (B)

  Deputy A.T. Dupré (C)

  Deputy E.J. Noel (L)

Draft Gambling Commission (Jersey) Law 200- P.139/2009

THE STATES commenced consideration of the Draft Gambling Commission (Jersey) Law 200- and, adopting an amendment of Deputy Montfort Tadier of St. Brelade , agreed that, in accordance with Standing Order 83(1)(a), the matter should be referred back to the Minister for Economic Development in order that further information relating to the proposition could be provided to the States.

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 32 CONTRE: 14 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator T.J. Le Main Senator B.E. Shenton Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator B.I. Le Marquand Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of St. John Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.B. Fox (H)

Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire (H) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy I.J. Gorst (C) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy A.T. Dupré (C) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy D. De Sousa (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)


Senator T.A. Le Sueur

Senator P.F. Routier

Senator A. Breckon

Senator A.J.D. Maclean

Connétable of Trinity

Connétable of St. Brelade

Connétable of St. Saviour

Connétable of St. Clement

Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)

Deputy of St. John

Deputy A.E. Jeune (B)

Deputy E.J. Noel (L)

Adjournment

THE STATES adjourned, having agreed to reconvene on Wednesday 18th November 2009 to consider the outstanding items of public business.

THE STATES rose at 5.28 p.m.

A.H. HARRIS Deputy Greffier of the States