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States Minutes 7th November 2012

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THE STATES assembled on Wednesday 7th November 2012, at 09.30 a.m. under the Presidency of the Bailiff ,

Sir Michael Birt.

 __________________

All members were present at roll call with the exception of –

Senator Sir Philip Bailhache – absent on States business

Connétable Stephen William Pallett of St. Brelade ill

Deputy Anne Enid Pryke of Trinity – excused (arrived in the Chamber at 10.03 a.m.) Deputy Trevor Mark Pitman of St. Helier ill

 __________________

Prayers

 __________________

Dr. Jonathan Renouf welcome

The Bailiff , on behalf of all Members, welcomed Dr. Jonathan Renouf , a member of the Electoral Commission, who was present in the public gallery.

Documents presented or laid

Old Age Pension: increase for 2012 (P.97/2012) – comments.  P.97/2012. Presented: 7th November 2012.  Com. Minister for Social Security.

Fiscal Policy Panel Annual Report 2012: response of the Minister for Treasury and  R.137/2012. Resources.

Presented: 7th November 2012.

Minister for Treasury and Resources.

Medium Term Financial Plan 2013 – 2015 P.69/2012

THE STATES resumed consideration of the proposition of the Council of Ministers entitled Medium Term Financial Plan 2013 – 2015' (P.69/2012) and rejected an amendment of Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier (Amendment 5) that in paragraph (b) after the words "as set out in Summary Table A" there should be inserted the words –

"except  that  the  total  amount  of  States  net revenue expenditure shall be increased by £10,700,000 in 2013, £8,700,000 in 2014 and £8,700,000 in 2015 to provide additional funding for public sector pay awards".

and in paragraph (c)(ii) after the words "as set out in Summary Table C" there should be inserted the words –

293   Price code: B

"except that the allocation for Contingency (Pay Provision) shall be increased by £10,700,000 in 2013, £8,700,000 in 2014 and £8,700,000 in 2015 to provide additional funding for public sector pay awards".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 5 CONTRE: 41 ABSTAIN: 2

Connétable of St. John Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy M.R. Higgins (H)


Senator P.F. Routier

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf

Senator S.C. Ferguson

Senator A.J.H. Maclean

Senator B.I. Le Marquand

Senator F. du H. Le Gresley Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham

Connétable of St. Helier

Connétable of Trinity

Connétable of Grouville

Connétable of St. Clement

Connétable of St. Peter

Connétable of St. Mary

Connétable of St. Ouen

Connétable of St. Martin

Connétable of St. Saviour

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H)

Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)

Deputy E.J. Noel (L)

Deputy T.A. Vallois (S)

Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)

Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy of St. John

Deputy J.P.G. Baker (H)

Deputy J.H. Young (B)

Deputy S.J. Pinel (C)

Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H)

Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy R.J. Rondel (H)


Senator A. Breckon Connétable of St. Lawrence

In accordance with Standing Order 106(1)(c), Senator Alan Breckon, Deputy Robert Charles Duhamel of St. Saviour , Deputy John Hilary Young of St. Brelade and Deputy Roderick Gordon Bryans of St. Helier declared an interest, but remained in the Chamber for the duration of the debate on the amendment of Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier (Amendment 5).

THE STATES commenced consideration of an amendment of the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel (Amendment 9)  that  in  paragraph (c)(i)  after  the  "Summary  Table B"  there  should  be  inserted  the words –

"except that for the financial years 2014 and 2015 the net revenue expenditure of the States funded bodies listed in the table below shall be decreased by the amounts shown.

 

Ministerial Departments

2014 £'000

2015 £'000

Chief Minister

1,700

1,670

Economic Development

350

350

Education, Sport and Culture

1,490

2,260

Home Affairs

250

250

Social Security

900

1,200

Transport and Technical Services

1,000

2,000

".

and that after sub-paragraph (c)(iii) there should be inserted a new sub-paragraph (c)(iv) as follows –

"(iv)  the amounts of £5,690,000 and £7,730,000 that, in the budgets for 2014 and 2015

respectively, may be appropriated to growth expenditure.".

THE STATES, in accordance with Standing Order 80A(2)(b), agreed to debate the Chief Minister's amendment to the amendment to the amendment which had been lodged less than 7 days before the debate.

THE STATES adopted Part 1 of an amendment of the Chief Minister (Amendment 9)(Amendment) (Amendment)  to  the amendment of the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel that in the table in the amendment to the amendment the sum "£2,000,000" in the substituted table in the column headed "2015" in the line "Transport and Technical Services" should be deleted.

THE STATES adopted Part 2 of an amendment of the Chief Minister (Amendment 9)(Amendment) (Amendment) to the amendment of the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel that in the amendment to the amendment for the amount "£3,460,000" there should be substituted the amount "£1,460,000".

THE STATES, adopting Part 1 of an amendment of the Chief Minister (Amendment 9)(Amendment) (as amended) to the amendment of the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel, agreed that for the table in the amendment there should be substituted the following table –

 

Ministerial Departments

2014 £'000

2015 £'000

Chief Minister

410

410

Home Affairs

50

50

Social Security

750

1,000

Transport and Technical Services

1,000

0

THE STATES, adopting Part 2 of an amendment of the Chief Minister (Amendment 9)(Amendment) (as amended) to the amendment of the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel, agreed that in the inserted new sub-paragraph (c)(iv) for the amount "£5,690,000" there should be substituted the amount "£2,210,000" and for the amount "£7,730,000" there should be substituted the amount "£1,460,000".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 33   CONTRE: 11  ABSTAIN: 0

Senator P.F. Routier

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator A.J.H. Maclean Senator B.I. Le Marquand Senator F. du H. Le Gresley Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. John Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B) Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy of St. John

Deputy J.P.G. Baker (H) Deputy S.J. Pinel (C) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy of St. Peter


 Senator S.C. Ferguson

  Connétable of Grouville

  Deputy G.P. Southern (H)

  Deputy of St. Ouen

  Deputy S. Pitman (H)

  Deputy M. Tadier (B)

  Deputy T.A. Vallois (S)

  Deputy M.R. Higgins (H)

  Deputy J.M. Maçon (S)

  Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C)   Deputy J.H. Young (B)

THE  STATES,  adopting  an  amendment  of  the  Corporate  Services  Scrutiny  Panel  (Amendment 9) (as amended), agreed that in paragraph (c)(i) after the "Summary Table B" there should be inserted the words –

"except that for the financial years 2014 and 2015 the net revenue expenditure of the States funded bodies listed in the table below shall be decreased by the amounts shown.

 

Ministerial Departments

2014 £'000

2015 £'000

Chief Minister

410

410

Home Affairs

50

50

Social Security

750

1,000

Transport and Technical Services

1,000

0

and that after sub-paragraph (c)(iii) there should be inserted a new sub-paragraph (c)(iv) as follows –

"(iv)  the amounts of £2,210,000 and £1,460,000 that, in the budgets for 2014 and 2015

respectively, may be appropriated to growth expenditure.".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 37   CONTRE: 6  ABSTAIN:

Senator P.F. Routier

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator A.J.H. Maclean Senator B.I. Le Marquand Senator F. du H. Le Gresley Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of Grouville Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. John Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)


  Deputy of Trinity

  Deputy S. Pitman (H)

  Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)   Deputy S.J. Pinel (C)

  Deputy of St. Mary

  Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B) Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy M.R. Higgins (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy of St. John

Deputy J.P.G. Baker (H) Deputy J.H. Young (B) Deputy R.G. Bryans (H)

THE STATES rejected Part 1 of an amendment of Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier (Amendment) that in paragraph (c)(i) after the words "Summary Table B" there should be inserted the words "except that the net revenue expenditure of the Transport and Technical Services Department shall be increased by £350,000 in 2013, £100,000 in 2014 and £100,000 in 2015 to provide funding for the Sustainable Transport Policy and the net revenue expenditure of the Economic Development Department shall be decreased by £350,000 in 2013, £100,000 in 2014 and £100,000 in 2015 by reducing the grant to Jersey Finance Ltd.".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 5 CONTRE: 37 ABSTAIN: 0

Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy R.J. Rondel (H)


Senator P.F. Routier

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf

Senator A. Breckon

Senator S.C. Ferguson

Senator A.J.H. Maclean

Senator B.I. Le Marquand

Senator F. du H. Le Gresley Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham

Connétable of St. Helier

Connétable of Grouville

Connétable of St. Clement

Connétable of St. Peter

Connétable of St. Mary

Connétable of St. Ouen

Connétable of St. Martin

Connétable of St. Saviour

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)

Deputy E.J. Noel (L)

Deputy T.A. Vallois (S)

Deputy M.R. Higgins (H)

Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy of St. John

Deputy J.H. Young (B)

Deputy S.J. Pinel (C)

Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H)

Deputy of St. Peter

THE STATES rejected Part 2 of an amendment of Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier (Amendment) that in paragraph (c)(i) after the words "Summary Table B" there should be inserted the words "except that the net revenue expenditure of the Transport and Technical Services Department shall be increased by £600,000 in 2013, £600,000 in 2014 and £600,000 in 2015 to provide funding for the town Hoppa' bus service and the net revenue expenditure of the Economic Development Department shall be decreased by £600,000 in 2013, £600,000 in 2014 and £600,000 in 2015 by reducing the grant to Jersey Finance Ltd.".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 7 CONTRE: 35 ABSTAIN: 0

Senator A. Breckon

Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy R.J. Rondel (H)


Senator P.F. Routier

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf

Senator S.C. Ferguson

Senator A.J.H. Maclean

Senator B.I. Le Marquand

Senator F. du H. Le Gresley Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham

Connétable of St. Helier

Connétable of Grouville

Connétable of St. Clement

Connétable of St. Peter

Connétable of St. Mary

Connétable of St. Ouen

Connétable of St. Martin

Connétable of St. Saviour

Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)

Deputy E.J. Noel (L)

Deputy T.A. Vallois (S)

Deputy M.R. Higgins (H)

Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)

Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy of St. John

Deputy J.H. Young (B) Deputy S.J. Pinel (C)

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy of St. Peter

In accordance with Standing Order 106(1)(c), the Connétable of St. Clement declared an interest but remained in the Chamber for the duration of the debate on the amendment of Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier (Amendment).

THE STATES commenced consideration of an amendment of Deputy John Alexander Nicholas Le Fondré of St. Lawrence (Amendment 8) that in paragraph (c)(iii) the words ", with £8,500,000 of the 2013 allocation, £4,743,000 of the 2014 allocation and £1,757,000 of the 2015 allocation, dependent upon the approval by the States of the redemption of the States' 9% Preference Shares in the JT Group Ltd. as set out in paragraph (f)" should be deleted and that for paragraph (f) there should be substituted the following paragraph –

"(f) to request the Corporate Services scrutiny panel to undertake a review of the proposal

to dispose by way of redemption of the States 9% Preference Shares in the JT Group Ltd. for a redemption value of £20 million.".

Changes in Presidency

The Bailiff retired from the Chamber during consideration of the amendment of Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier (Amendment) to the Medium Term Financial Plan 2013 – 2015' (P.69/2012) and the meeting continued under the presidency of Mr. Michael Nelson de la Haye, Greffier of the States.

Adjournment

THE STATES adjourned, having agreed to reconvene on Thursday 8th November 2012 to continue consideration of the proposition of the Council of Ministers entitled Medium Term Financial Plan 2013 – 2015' (P.69/2012) and the outstanding items of public business.

THE STATES rose at 5.27 p.m.

M.N. DE LA HAYE Greffier of the States