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States Minutes 15th May 2013

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THE STATES assembled on Wednesday 15th May 2013, at 09.30 a.m. under

the Presidency of the Bailiff ,

Sir Michael Birt.

 __________________

All members were present at roll call with the exception of –

Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf – en défaut (défaut raised at 10.15 a.m.)

Senator Alan John Henry Maclean – excused attendance

Senator Ian Joseph Gorst – en défaut (défaut raised at 10.15 a.m.)

Connétable Daniel Joseph Murphy of Grouville ill

Deputy Roy George Le Hérissier of St. Saviour – en défaut (défaut raised at 9.38 a.m.) Deputy Michael Roderick Higgins of St. Helier ill

 __________________

Prayers

 __________________

Withdrawal of lodged propositions

THE STATES noted that, in accordance with Standing Order 34(1), the proposer of the following proposition lodged "au Greffe" had informed the Greffier of the States that it had been withdrawn –

The Reform of Social Housing (P.33/2013): second amendment. P.33/2013. Lodged: 16th April 2013.  Amd.(2) Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier .

The Reform of Social Housing P.33/2013

THE STATES commenced consideration of a proposition of the Council of Ministers regarding the reform of Social Housing and, adopting part 1 of an amendment of the Health, Social Security and Housing scrutiny panel, agreed that in paragraph (a)(i) the words "in the Chief Minister's Department" should be deleted and after the words "dated 4th March 2013" there should be inserted the words –

"to be overseen at a political level by the Minister for Housing, except in the last paragraph of section 3.12.5 after the words "overall responsibility for this is proposed to become the responsibility of" the words "the Chief Minister" should be deleted and the words "Minister for  Housing  working  closely  with  the  Chief  Minister,  the  Minister  for  Planning  and Environment and the Minister for Treasury and Resources" should be inserted".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 42   CONTRE: 0  ABSTAIN: 0

Senator P.F. Routier Senator P.F.C. Ozouf Senator A. Breckon Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator B.I. Le Marquand Senator F. du H. Le Gresley

171   Price code: B

Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Lawrence Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy J.P.G. Baker (H) Deputy J.H. Young (B) Deputy S.J. Pinel (C) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy R.J. Rondel (H)

THE STATES rejected part 1 of an amendment of Deputy John Alexander Nicholas Le Fondré of St. Lawrence that in paragraph (a)(i) after the words "sections 3.12 to 3.14 of the attached Report of the Council of Ministers dated 4th March 2013" there should be inserted the words –

"Except that at the end of section 3.12.2 after the words "disposal of social housing property" there shall be inserted the following new paragraphs –

For the avoidance of doubt, such regulation would ensure proper governance of surpluses generated by existing social housing providers.

As part of any definition of surplus funds, existing social housing providers ("the entities") would be required to make adequate provision for working capital; for the repayment of loans or other debts; for commitments; for projects and activities of the entities, including provision (by depreciation or otherwise) for the redevelopment of properties owned by the entities; for the acquisition/development of additional properties for social housing; and for contingencies; all in accordance with the powers for so doing under the terms of their statutes as approved from time to time.

The regulations may also require the calculation and disclosure of subsidies (both capital and revenue) received by the entities, and may also define under what circumstances such subsidies should be repaid to the States of Jersey.".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 20   CONTRE: 26  ABSTAIN: 0

Senator A. Breckon

Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. John Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Martin Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.J. Rondel (H)


 Senator P.F. Routier

  Senator P.F.C. Ozouf

  Senator B.I. Le Marquand

  Senator F. du H. Le Gresley  Senator I.J. Gorst

  Senator P.M. Bailhache

  Connétable of St. Helier

  Connétable of Trinity

  Connétable of St. Peter

  Connétable of St. Brelade

  Connétable of St. Saviour

  Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)

  Deputy of St. Ouen

  Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

  Deputy of Trinity

  Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)   Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)

  Deputy E.J. Noel (L)

  Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)

  Deputy of St. John

  Deputy J.P.G. Baker (H)

  Deputy J.H. Young (B)

  Deputy S.J. Pinel (C)

  Deputy of St. Mary

  Deputy R.G. Bryans (H)

  Deputy of St. Peter

THE STATES, adopting part 2 of an amendment of the Health, Social Security and Housing scrutiny panel, agreed that paragraph (a)(ii) should be deleted and in paragraph (b)(i) for the words "and to further  request  the  Chief  Minister  to  bring  forward  for  approval  by  the  Assembly  the  necessary legislation to give effect to the proposals in relation to the regulation of Social Housing;" there should be substituted  the  words  "to  further request the Minister for Housing, in consultation with the Chief Minister, to bring forward for approval by the Assembly detailed proposals which are proportionate for Jersey in relation to the proposed mechanism for the regulation of social housing, with a view to bringing forward for approval, after the debate on the draft proposals, legislation to give effect to the proposed regulation system as approved by the Assembly;".

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 43   CONTRE: 2  ABSTAIN: 0

Senator P.F. Routier   Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Senator P.F.C. Ozouf   Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Senator A. Breckon

Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator B.I. Le Marquand Senator F. du H. Le Gresley Senator I.J. Gorst

Senator L.J. Farnham Senator P.M. Bailhache Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Clement Connétable of St. Peter Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. John Connétable of St. Ouen Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H) Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy of Trinity

Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy K.C. Lewis (S) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy E.J. Noel (L) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy of St. John

Deputy J.P.G. Baker (H) Deputy J.H. Young (B) Deputy S.J. Pinel (C) Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy of St. Peter

Deputy R.J. Rondel (H)

THE STATES rejected an amendment of Deputy Tracey Anne Vallois of St. Saviour that paragraph (a)(iii) should be deleted, and after paragraph (b)(i) there should be inserted a new paragraph (b)(ii) as follows –

"(ii) to request the Minister for Housing to bring forward for approval by the Assembly

detailed proposals in relation to a revised rent policy and to take no steps to implement any revised rent policy until the proposals have been approved by the Assembly".

Members present voted as follows –

STATES MINUTES POUR: 19

Senator A. Breckon

Senator S.C. Ferguson Connétable of St. John Connétable of St. Martin Connétable of St. Saviour Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S) Deputy J.A. Martin (H) Deputy G.P. Southern (H) Deputy of Grouville

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L) Deputy S. Pitman (H) Deputy M. Tadier (B) Deputy T.M. Pitman (H) Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C) Deputy J.H. Young (B) Deputy R.G. Bryans (H) Deputy R.J. Rondel (H)


15th May 2013

  CONTRE: 23  ABSTAIN: 2

  Senator P.F.C. Ozouf   Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)  Senator B.I. Le Marquand   Deputy of St. Ouen

  Senator F. du H. Le Gresley

  Senator L.J. Farnham

  Senator P.M. Bailhache

  Connétable of St. Helier

  Connétable of Trinity

  Connétable of St. Clement

  Connétable of St. Peter

  Connétable of St. Mary

  Connétable of St. Brelade

  Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

  Deputy of Trinity

  Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)

  Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)

  Deputy E.J. Noel (L)

  Deputy A.K.F. Green (H)

  Deputy of St. John

  Deputy J.P.G. Baker (H)

  Deputy S.J. Pinel (C)

  Deputy of St. Mary

  Deputy of St. Martin

  Deputy of St. Peter

THE STATES commenced consideration of part 2 of an amendment of Deputy John Alexander Nicholas Le Fondré  of   St. Lawrence  that  in  paragraph (a)(iii)  for  the  words  "a  return  to"  there  should  be substituted the words "setting a ceiling of" and after the words "3.12.9 of the attached Report" there should be inserted the words "except that section 3.12.9 shall be amended in the manner set out in Appendix 1 to the amendment of Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence dated 30th April 2013".

Arrangement of pubic business

THE STATES, adopting a proposition of Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern of St. Helier , agreed that the meeting should adjourn.

Members present voted as follows –

POUR: 29   CONTRE: 14  ABSTAIN: 0

Senator A. Breckon Senator S.C. Ferguson Senator F. du H. Le Gresley Senator L.J. Farnham Connétable of St. Helier Connétable of Trinity Connétable of St. Mary Connétable of St. John Connétable of St. Brelade Connétable of St. Martin


 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf

  Senator B.I. Le Marquand

  Senator P.M. Bailhache

  Connétable of St. Clement

  Connétable of St. Peter

  Deputy J.A. Martin (H)

  Deputy of Grouville

  Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (L)   Deputy of Trinity

  Deputy E.J. Noel (L)

Connétable of St. Saviour   Deputy T.A. Vallois (S) Deputy R.C. Duhamel (S)   Deputy A.K.F. Green (H) Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier (S)   Deputy J.M. Maçon (S) Deputy G.P. Southern (H)   Deputy R.J. Rondel (H) Deputy of St. Ouen

Deputy J.A. Hilton (H)

Deputy S.S.P.A. Power (B)

Deputy S. Pitman (H)

Deputy K.C. Lewis (S)

Deputy M. Tadier (B)

Deputy T.M. Pitman (H)

Deputy G.C.L. Baudains (C)

Deputy of St. John

Deputy J.H. Young (B)

Deputy S.J. Pinel (C)

Deputy of St. Mary

Deputy of St. Martin

Deputy R.G. Bryans (H)

Deputy of St. Peter

Adjournment

THE  STATES  adjourned,  having  agreed  to  reconvene  on  Thursday  16th  May  2013  to  continue consideration of the proposition of the Council of Ministers entitled The Reform of Social Housing' (P.33/2013), the remaining amendments to the same and the outstanding items of public business.

THE STATES rose at 5.32 p.m.

A.H. HARRIS Deputy Greffier of the States