Privileges and Procedures Committee 9th June 2015

TM/SC/166

PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE (11th Meeting)

9th June 2015

PART A

All members were present, with the exception of Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement , Chairman, and Senator P.F.C. Ozouf , from whom apologies had been received.

Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John

Deputy J.A. Martin

Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier

In attendance -

M.N. de la Haye O.B.E., Greffier of the States

L.M. Hart , Deputy Greffier of the States

A.C. Goodyear, Assistant Greffier of the States

(not present for item Nos. A5 – A8)

T. McMinigal, Clerk to the Privileges and Procedures Committee

Note:  The Minutes of this meeting comprise Part A only.

Minutes.  A1.  The Minutes of the meetings of 19th May 2015 (Part A and Part B), having

been previously circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed.

States meeting  A2.  The Committee received a report prepared by the Greffier of the States in dates for 2016.  connexion with the proposed States meeting dates for 2016.

1240/2(86)

The Committee noted that, in accordance with Standing Order 4 of the Standing Orders of the States of Jersey, it was required to propose dates and present them to the  States  by  the  end  of  September.  The  proposed  2016  meeting  dates  were accordingly agreed as follows:

First Session

Continuation (if necessary) January 19th  January 20th and 21st February 2nd  February 3rd and 4th February 23rd  February 24th and 25th March 8th  March 9th and 10th

March 22nd  March 23rd and 24th

April 12th  April 13th and 14th

April 26th  April 27th and 28th

May 10th  May 11th and 12th

May 24th  May 25th and 26th

June 14th  June 15th and 16th

June 28th  June 29th and 30th

July 12th  July 13th and 14th

Second Session

Continuation (if necessary) September 13th  September 14th and 15th September 27th  September 28th and 29th October 11th  October 12th and 13th November 1st  November 2nd and 3rd November 15th  November 16th and 17th November 29th  November 30th and December 1st December 13th  December 14th and 15th

The Greffier of the States was requested to arrange for the report entitled "States meeting dates for 2015" to be presented to the States in due course.

Composition  A3.  The Committee, with reference to its Minute No. A2 of 19th May 2015, and election of  received an oral update from the Deputy Greffier of the States on the activities of the States  the Sub-Committee on the Composition and Election of the States Assembly. Assembly.

465/1(201)  The Committee recalled that the Sub-Committee's first open-forum workshop with

all States Members had taken place on 2nd June 2015. A total of 32 Members had participated in the session, which had concentrated on the objectives for reform and the categories, districting and numbers of States Members. The Committee was informed that the presentation and survey questions would be issued to those Members who were unable to attend, in order that they might express their views on  the  above  matters.  Once  the  survey  responses  had  been  collected  in their totality, officers would analyse the results and attempt to identify any majority view-points or demographic trends.

The Deputy Greffier reported that an Officer Group meeting had been held on the morning of 9th June 2015. The Meeting had discussed the outcomes of the initial consultation and had identified the Sub-Committee's forthcoming milestones. The Committee noted that officers had secured a date of 14th July 2015 for the Sub- Committee's second open-forum workshop, which would likely focus on the topic of voting systems. A meeting of the Sub-Committee proper would be convened towards the tail-end of June, with a view to finalising the materials to be presented at said session.  It was expected  that the themes of categories, districting and numbers of States Members would be revisited at a later session in September 2015.

The Committee noted the position accordingly and awaited further developments with interest.

States  A4.  The Committee, with reference to its Minute No. A6 of 21st April 2015, procedures:  considered a discussion paper from the Standing Orders and Internal Procedures review  Sub-Committee.

465/4(14)

The paper set out several discussion points' which were discussed in turn by the Committee:

1. Standing Orders relating to the answering of oral questions with and without notice should be amended to provide that "an answer must be directly relevant to the question." The Committee regarded the principle of this proposal favourably, but recognised that its enforcement had practical implications for the Presiding Officer. In light of this, the Sub- Committee was directed to write to the Bailiff to enquire as to the

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impact which the introduction of such an amendment would have on the chairing of question time in the Assembly.  

2. Consideration should be given to the allocation of a period of question time to topic areas identified by Scrutiny and led by the relevant Scrutiny panel, on rotation. The Sub-Committee had expressed the view that certain recent examples of question time had been routine, even lacklustre. It had considered how question time might be reinvigorated, and had decided to share the above idea with the full Committee, so that it might be discussed at greater length. The Committee shared a common vision, that question time should be an energetic, tenacious affair, but some reservations were expressed as to the proposed mandatory involvement of Scrutiny. It was pointed out that the role of Scrutiny was to make objective, unbiased observations on government policy. This approach contrasted with question time, which was an inherently politicised event. Nevertheless, the Committee considered that every effort should be made to protect the vitality of question time. It was suggested that the Sub-Committee might send electronic mail correspondence to all States Members requesting thoughts on how this could best be achieved. The Greffier of the States also undertook to liaise with the Bailiff to ensure that an announcement would be made at the end of each States sitting declaring which Ministers would face questioning at the next meeting. The Committee noted the position accordingly.
3. Consideration should be given to allowing members to specify during questions without notice if they wish their question to be answered by the Minister or the Assistant Minister.  The Committee agreed, by majority, that it should be possible to question Assistant Ministers on areas for which they had been delegated responsibility, but considered that the scope of this provision should extend only to oral questions with notice. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John abstained on the matter.  
4. Procedures for appointing Ministers should be amended to require all candidates to submit a written statement to the Greffier of the States prior to their nomination in the States. The Committee rejected this concept on the basis that it might restrict the number of candidates for Ministerial positions. Members considered that the pursuance of discussion point #5 (see below) would go far enough towards ensuring that all future Ministerial candidates would be well-researched and possessed of policy ideas.  
5. All candidates for the position of Minister and Chairman should make a speech and answer questions, whether or not the position is contested. The Committee considered this to be a useful suggestion, approving it unanimously. Members noted and accepted an omitted addendum to discussion point #5, that unopposed candidates for the position of Minister and Chairman should face a vote and require the endorsement of at least 50 per cent of the Assembly to be duly appointed. Consequently, the Sub-Committee was directed to define the procedure in instances where this endorsement was not forthcoming, before presenting a final recommendation on the matter. The Committee noted the position accordingly.  
6. The Privileges and Procedures Committee should consider whether the current procedure, whereby Ministers and Chairmen are elected by recorded ballot, should remain, or whether Ministers and Chairmen should be elected by secret ballot. The Committee considered that the wisest course of action would be for the Sub-Committee to review balloting procedures in other jurisdictions, before making a

recommendation. Officers from the States Greffe agreed to undertake this research, and to present a report on the matter to the Sub-Committee at its next meeting.  

7. Consideration  should  be  given  to  the  establishment  of  a  Business Committee for the scheduling of States business. Whilst the Committee was not positively disposed to the notion of a Business Committee, believing  that  it  would  create  an  unnecessary  additional  layer  of bureaucracy, it agreed not to make a final judgement on the matter until Senator P.F.C. Ozouf was present and had been given the chance to explain the idea at greater length. The topic was accordingly put into abeyance by the Committee, for reconsideration at a future meeting.  

The Committee considered an outstanding matter which was yet to be explored by the Sub-Committee. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier had submitted that it should be possible for political parties to be named on propositions brought by party members. The Deputy explained that certain propositions were linked not solely to an individual but to a party more broadly. He opined that the present situation was disadvantageous, whereby if the proposer of a party-associated proposition was unable to attend a States sitting due to urgent and/or adverse circumstances, the proposition would be deferred, even if fellow party members were willing and able to act as a rapporteur in place of their absent colleague. He remarked that these unnecessary  deferrals  could  have  severe  consequences  in  instances  where  the debate of a proposition was time-critical.

The Committee reflected on this suggestion in a broader sense, discussing whether it might be practical to extend the existing rapporteur arrangements defined under Articles 68A and 70 of the Standing Orders of the States of Jersey, so that they might apply to all propositions. It was proposed that under such an arrangement, an individual might name a rapporteur upon lodging a proposition, who would act only if the proposer was unable to attend the debate in question due to unforeseen circumstances. Returning to Deputy Mézec 's submission, the point was made that if it was applied as read, a perception might arise that the procedure gave an advantage  to  political  parties  over  individuals.  After  a  substantive  discussion, Members agreed that the Sub-Committee should consider both the Committee's ruminations  and   Deputy   Mézec 's  original  proposal,  before  making  a  final recommendation on the matter.

Finally, it was agreed that the Sub-Committee should review whether Ministers should be able to vote on elections for Chairmen of Scrutiny panels. The view was expressed that it was inappropriate for Ministers to vote on those individuals who would later scrutinise their policies.

The  Assistant  Greffier  of  the  States  expressed  gratitude  for  the  Committee's exhaustive input, stating that its feedback would be considered in full by the Sub- Committee in due course. She added that the Sub-Committee would progress the matters discussed and update the Committee at its next meeting. The Committee noted the position accordingly.  

States  A5.  The Committee, with reference to its Minute No. A5 of 16th March 2015, Assembly  received  a  report  which  had  been  prepared  by  the  Greffier  of  the  States  in budget.  connexion with the budget position of the States Assembly and its Services in 422/10/1(92)  2016.

The Committee recalled that it had already taken a number of decisions in relation to the States Assembly budget for the next Medium Term Financial Plan period

11th Meeting 09.06.15

(2016-2019).  Firstly,  the  Committee  had  agreed  to  meet  savings  targets  as identified by the Council of Ministers, which were in line with those set for other States  funded  bodies.  Secondly,  notwithstanding  the  above  decision  to  make savings, the Committee had decided, by majority, to include a growth item of £100,000 per annum from 2016 to cover the cost of introducing pensions for States Members (Minute No. B2 of 19th May 2015 refers). Thirdly, the Committee had specified in P.39/2015, "States Assembly: filming proceedings and the installation of clocks", that the costs associated with web-streaming the proceedings of the States would be covered from existing budgets.

The savings targets requested by the States Treasury for 2015 and 2016 were as follows –

The Committee recalled that the 2015 savings had been achieved, partly by the removal of the post of Personal Assistant to the Greffier of the States upon the retirement  of  the  previous  incumbent,  partly  by  the  reduction  in  the  overall membership of the States by 2 elected members. These savings for 2015 in fact exceeded the £98,000 by £6,300. Thus, the proposed cash limit for 2016 sent from Treasury had been recalculated as follows –

The Committee was informed that the £45,000 saving requested by the Treasury for 2016 could be accommodated by the loss of the post of States Liaison Officer to the Committee of Inquiry when the inquiry finished and the post-holder retired. Savings in administrative functions in the States Greffe could also be made to offset the cost of web-streaming if the States adopted P.39/2015.

The Committee was aware that although an initial indication had been given in January  2015  that  further  savings  would  be  sought  for  2017  to  2019,  an amendment to the Public Finances (Jersey) Law 2005 had since being lodged by the Minister for Treasury and Resources. That amendment, if adopted on 16th June 2015, would mean that no detail of 2017 to 2019 cash limits would be debated or agreed  until  June  2016.  The  Treasury  had  recently  indicated  that  it  did  not therefore wish to receive any information about budgets for the years beyond 2016 until the overall budgetary policy was clearer. Nevertheless, the Greffier reported that he had met the Chairmen's Committee to discuss the impact of savings on the scrutiny  function.  The  Chairmen's  Committee  had  helpfully  suggested  that  it would  be  willing  to  see  a  reduction  of  £100,000  in  the  amount  allocated  to Scrutiny. The Committee considered that although this saving was not needed for 2016, it might be helpful to meet future savings targets from 2017 onwards when the budgetary position for 2017 to 2019 was clarified.

The Committee noted the position accordingly.

Web-streaming  A6.  The Committee, with reference to its Minute No. A2 of 19th May 2015, of meetings of  discussed  again  matters  related  to  P.39/2015,  "States  Assembly:  filming the States and  proceedings and the installation of clocks."

installation of

clocks.  The Committee recalled that the proposition was due to be debated on 23rd June 465/4(13)  2015. In the meantime, an associated briefing had been arranged for 16th June

2015, to which all States Members had been invited. The briefing would seek to demonstrate the benefits and capabilities of a web-streaming facility.

The  Greffier  of  the  States  reported  that  preparation  had  commenced  for  this session. He invited the Committee to advise as to the optimal format for the impending presentation. The Committee considered that, in the main, Members would be  most interested to understand how footage  would be  packaged  and presented online, what the likely cost of a web-streaming facility would be, and why the Committee had considered the initiative to be an important one. The Committee further agreed that, if possible, both the Chairman and Senator P.F.C. Ozouf  should  be  involved  in  the  briefing,  as  strong,  positive  voices  for  the proposal.

Officers  from  the  States  Greffe  thanked  the  Committee  for  their  input  and undertook to make the necessary arrangements in order that the session might be delivered successfully.

States  A7.  The  Committee  considered  the  appropriateness  of  the  current  level  of Members'  secretarial,  administrative  support  and  office  accommodation  offered  to  States facilities:  Members.

support for

elected  The Committee recalled that Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade had addressed a representatives  written question to the Chairman on the above matter at the States sitting of 2nd 1240/9/1(137)  June  2015,  wherein he  requested  that research  be  undertaken  on  the level  of

support offered to elected representatives in comparable jurisdictions. Within his response, the Chairman observed that the Committee had not discussed the topic. He had therefore asked the Committee to decide whether it would be worthwhile to undertake the study requested by the questioner.

The Committee agreed that it would be beneficial for officers from the States Greffe  to  research  the  matter.  Officers  undertook  to  prepare  a  paper  for consideration by the Committee at its next meeting.

States  A8.  The Committee, with reference to its Minute No. A8 of 21st April 2015, Members'  received an oral update from the Greffier of the States in connexion with the Remuneration  activities of the States Members' Remuneration Review Body (SMRRB).

Review Body:

Review of  The Committee recalled that it had accepted the SMRRB's invitation to attend an States  informal  meeting  wherein  the  two  bodies  would  reflect  on  the  role  and Members' pay  responsibilities of States Members. The Greffier reported that 20th July 2015 had 1240/3(73)  been suggested by the SMRRB as a potential date on which this conversation

might take place. The Committee considered the mooted date to be expedient.

The Greffier undertook to inform the Chairman of the SMRRB accordingly.