What is the progress of drafting the necessary legislation to establish a police consultative group in line with paragraph 3(2.1) of the States Strategic Plan 20062011

2.11   Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the necessary legislation required to establish a Police Consultative Group in line with Paragraph 3.2.1 of the States Strategic Plan 2006-2011:

Will the Minister give an update on the progress, if any, of drafting the necessary legislation to establish a police consultative group in line with paragraph 3(2.1) of the States Strategic Plan 2006- 2011?

Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):

The Police Force (States) (Jersey) Law is at final drafting stage. Some initial consultation has taken place with stakeholders, such as the States of Jersey Police, the Jersey Police Complaints Authority, Connétable s and Chefs de Police and some consultation with Scrutiny. Further consultation will take place with States Members and interested parties and, again with Scrutiny, in the next few weeks and the Law will be ready to lodge at the end of the year for debate in the first part of 2008.

1. The Deputy of St. Martin :

Will the Minister accept that in P.118 - the Criminal Justice Policy - much emphasis is placed on

the establishment of a police authority, but there does not appear to be anything about a police

consultative group? Will the Minister care to comment?

Senator W. Kinnard:

The Deputy , Sir, is quite aware that during the ramifications of what was going to happen with the Connétable s that at one point we were looking at putting forward a police consultative group, and that is the wording that went into the original Strategic Plan that he looked at when he was the chairman of the Scrutiny Committee. But, in fact, Sir, that did get changed to the idea of a police authority, on consultation with Her Majesty's Inspector of Police who asked us to have a look at the Gibraltar model. It is the Jersey Police Authority that is the title that will be used going forward.

2. The Deputy of St. Martin :

Yes, Sir, that is the very point I am trying to get at. Will the Minister then accept that, in fact, what

we are going to have is a police authority which will not embrace all of the police and the army, it will only embrace the States Police, but will not include the Honorary Police?

Senator W. Kinnard:

The Honorary Police will still be covered for the time being under the 1974 Law and that is because of the outstanding question that has been going on for some time, about the future of the Connétable s. That could have affected the rate of progress towards establishing a police authority. So the model that has been taken forward in our new Police Force Law will not, for the time being, cover the Honorary Police. However, the intention is to allow for their inclusion at a later date, by

which time the Island would have had first-hand experience of operating within a police authority

framework. So initial consultation on this very issue has taken place with the Connétable s and the Chefs de Police.

3. The Deputy of St. Martin :

The Minister will be aware that the States passed, in 1999, a proposition to establish a police

authority and it was the Minister whose department rejected that about 2 or 3 years ago when it

came by with an R.C. Will the Minister inform the House when she envisages to take on board the issue about the Connétable s retaining their ownership or possession of the title of police officer? Obviously, the sooner that is established, the sooner we can get on and establish a proper police authority, which will encompass Honorary Police as well.

Senator W. Kinnard:

My department did not reject the idea of a police authority. For those members who have read the report that was presented to the States, it gave very detailed consideration to the difficulties that had been experienced in establishing a police authority, as decided in 1999 by this House and, indeed,

the Deputy himself has agreed that it is not appropriate to establish an authority as was first

envisaged in 1999. Indeed, it was the very person who was going to be the chairman of the proposed authority in 1999 who undertook some work on this issue and said that he too felt that the model there was not appropriate. That is why we have, at this point, taken the advice of the H.M.I. (Her Majesty's Inspectorate) and we think we have a model now that is appropriate to Jersey and we want to take that forward, working with the States of Jersey Police and then working with our honorary colleagues, and they will obviously advise us at what point they are ready to join within this particular framework. I think we need to get some experience under our belt, given the difficulties in forming this authority in the first place, we need some experience of running a police authority - I think with the States of Jersey Police in the initial period - before we decide to take on the quite difficult part of including the Honorary Police because we know that there is a huge amount of legislative change that is necessary in any case.

4. The Deputy of St. Martin :

Just to clarify one piece of information the Minister gave us. Will the Minister confirm that the reason I agreed the police authority in its present state could not carry on was because, as it would have been established, it would have encompassed the police or the Defence Committee, as it was,

so therefore there is no longer a Police Committee? You can still have a police authority but you

could not have it with the Defence Committee, as it was.

Senator W. Kinnard:

I do not live inside the Deputy 's brain.  I do not know what his reasons were.

5. Connétable G.W. Fisher of St. Lawrence :

I wonder if I could ask a supplementary? The Minister referred to consultation with the Connétable s and that may well have taken place in 1999 or whenever it was, but I have been a Connétable for a number of years now and I do not recall such consultation. I just make the point that there are in fact a significant number of Connétable s who have recently come into the States and therefore I suggest that such consultation should take place again along the lines that apparently it took place before.

Senator W. Kinnard:

I was very careful to say "some initial consultation". We did have a meeting - at least one meeting,

it may have 2, I think it was certainly one meeting - with the Connétable s and the Chefs de Police around this particular issue and I made it very clear in my answer earlier on that that was just an initial form of consultation and that our intention now is to go into further, more detailed consultation with interested parties and, of course, those interested parties include the Connétable s.