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3.16 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Chief Minister regarding the workings of the Hay Evaluation system:
Is the Chief Minister satisfied with the workings of the Hay evaluation system and, if not, what changes, if any, does he propose?
Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):
On the whole, I am satisfied with the workings of the Hay job evaluation system, which is a worldwide renowned system of evaluating jobs for pay policy purposes and which has served us well for some 30 years. However, it is important to appreciate that the primary purpose of the Hay process is as a tool for evaluation comparisons between Civil Service posts of differing types. Nonetheless, everything needs updating and changing with time and the current system is currently being reviewed as part of the general review of terms and conditions of employment. What is perhaps more important is to simplify the variety of posts and grades currently in existence across the whole States organisation. The appropriate staff representatives are aware of this and will be involved when formal proposals are developed.
- Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:
I am encouraged to hear of the wider review. One of the recurring criticisms of Hay is that it inflates the number of people in supervisory positions because it has a bias in that direction. Could he indicate how that is dealt with and whether he feels that there is a proper lid kept on the creation of such positions?
Senator T.A. Le Sueur :
I am aware of that criticism of the Hay system. The number of employees or the responsibility for staff is one of 8 criteria which are used in the Hay assessment process. So taken in isolation, it would be a serious concern. As one of 8 matters, it I think puts a fair balance and perhaps a balance which is not always understood by people who criticise the Hay system and so, for that reason, I am satisfied that the review takes quite clear notice of that criticism.
- Senator S.C. Ferguson:
Obviously, the Hay system is so well-known that, on occasion, it can be outwitted. Is the Chief Minister aware that the Hay company itself will come in and recalibrate the system as and when required?
Senator T.A. Le Sueur :
Yes, like all processes such as this, people do get to know the nuances of the system and the way in which it is best addressed and, equally, if the system is going to be robust, it will acknowledge and deal with and react to those things and keep up-to- date itself. I am satisfied that the Hay process does keep up-to-date but I do appreciate and share some of the concerns of the Senator.
- Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:
I wonder if the Chief Minister could indicate whether, despite the conscientious application of Hay, he has come across departments which are clearly over-managed and over-supervised. Could he identify which, in his estimation, these are - as there are rumours around - and what steps he is taking to rectify the overenthusiastic application of the Hay principles?
Senator T.A. Le Sueur :
I think the idea of over-management can be exaggerated although I do accept that there are cases which do cause my eyebrows to raise as much as no doubt other people's do, and there is generally a good reason why the appearance is not necessarily the same as the reality. It is really up to us in the States Employment Board and States Members to ensure that we appoint proper managers to do the job properly and to weed-out cases where there just seems to be job creation for its own sake. I am satisfied that, if you appoint the right people to the job at the top, they do indeed achieve those changes.
[11:30]
Furthermore, the C.S.R. and the way in which that is vigorously reviewed by Ministers and other means of Scrutiny will ensure that blatant examples such as that do get identified. When you get down to other levels, we could be in danger of micro-managing, and I think it has to be kept at a reasonably sensible and succinct high level process but I do take note of the Deputy 's concerns.