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Chairmen's Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 8 September 2006

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CHAIRMEN'S COMMITTEE

Meeting of Chairmen held on 8th September 2006 Meeting No. 26

PUBLIC SESSION

Present Deputy R C Duhamel, President

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier, Vice-President

Deputy J. G. Reed

Deputy S C Ferguson

Deputy D. Mezbourian (as Social Affairs Panel representative)

Senator J. Perchard (as Corporate Services Panel representative) Apologies Deputy P J D Ryan

Deputy B. Hill

Absent

In attendance Mrs. K. Tremellen-Frost, Scrutiny Manager

 

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

1.

Minutes

The Minutes of 30th June 2006 as amended and 21st, 24th and 28th July and 31st August 2006 were approved and signed accordingly.

With regard to the minutes of 31st August 2006, it was noted that the full amendment to the draft Code of Practice Section

4.19 had been approved as opposed to a corrigendum.

Meeting of 30th June 2006 Item 3: Scrutiny communication in general  was  requested  as  an  item  for  consideration  at  a subsequent meeting.

 

2.

28.07.06 Item 7

Correspondence to Property Holdings

This matter had been addressed by way of an amendment by Deputy S.C. Ferguson to the Annual Business Plan (P.96/2006) Eighth Amendment.

 

3.

28.07.06 Item 15

Livelink

Deputy Duhamel had met Mr Ogley and discussed the extent to which  LiveLink  was  currently  useful  to  scrutiny.  It  was recognised that scrutiny needed to have access to the process which lead to a decision by a Minister and without such an audit trail, scrutiny was unable to fulfil in function in any depth. Mr. Ogley agreed to prepare a paper which would address either a change  to  LiveLink  or  a  change  to  current  provision  of  a chronology or bibliography.

 

4. 30.06.06

Draft Strategic Plan 2006-2011

The Committee received and noted a Committee Act of the

 

Item 5

Privileges  and  Procedures  Committee  relating  to  Scrutiny's concerns that no costings were detailed in the draft Strategic Plan 2006 - 2011. The Committee noted that the Privileges and Procedures Committee had agreed that this matter should be considered as a part of the proposed review lodged "au Greffe" by  Senator  B.E.  Shenton  entitled "Ministerial  Government: Review of the first 12 months" (P.77/2006)

 

5.

30.06.06 Item 13.

Amendments to Standing Orders

The Committee received and noted correspondence dated 14th August 2006, from the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding  a  suggestion  by  the  Economic  Affairs  Panel  that Standing Orders be amended in respect of lodging times and the period of time allowed for a scrutiny review.

In the first instance, a lodging period of six weeks for a Scrutiny Panel to lodge a stand-alone proposition arising out of a scrutiny review  of  a  matter  before  the  States  was  too  long.  The Privileges  and  Procedures  Committee  had  decided  that  it wished  to  investigate  in  what  circumstances  a  stand-alone proposition  would  arise  and  this  should  form  a  part  of  the proposed review lodged "au Greffe" by Senator B.E. Shenton entitled "Ministerial  Government:  Review  of  the  first  12 months" (P.77/2006)

With  regard  to  the  above,   Deputy   Southern  expressed  his concern as he had informed the Committee of an example of when a stand-alone scrutiny proposition had to be lodged for a six-week period. It was agreed that Deputy Duhamel would contact Connétable Gray in respect of this matter.

Secondly, the period of time allowed by Standing Orders to review a draft Law or Regulation was too short and should be extended so that the review was completed by the sixth meeting following the debate upon the principles of the legislation. If the recess intervened this could give rise to a very long period of scrutiny and it was proposed that the period of consultation did not exceed 12 weeks where a recessed occurred.

The  Privileges  and  Procedures  Committee  had  referred  the latter to the Council of Ministers for comment.

RD

6.

Privileges  and  Procedures  Committee - attendance  at Scrutiny meetings

The Committee received and noted correspondence dated 14th August 2006, from the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the funding for the establishment of a fifth scrutiny panel.  It  was  noted  that  that  Committee  would  lodge  an amendment to the Annual Business Plan in order to obtain the full amount needed to fund the fifth Panel which would be drawn in equal parts from the ten Departments.

The Committee also noted that the Privileges and Procedures Committee, being aware of the need to prepare for the above and for a debate in respect of P.77/2006, lodged "au Greffe" by Senator B.E. Shenton entitled "Ministerial Government: Review

 

 

of the first 12 months", decided that it should appraise itself of the way that scrutiny was proceeding. It had been agreed that the Chairman and Vice-Chairman would attend Panel meetings as observers and discuss achievements and challenges with the individual Chairmen.

 

7.

Constitutional Advisory Panel

The Committee received and noted correspondence dated 16th august 2006 from the Chairman, Corporate Services Panel to the  Chief  Minister  regarding  membership  of  a  Constitutional Advisory Panel.

The Council of Ministers had approved this body and agreed that one of its members should be a non-Executive member of the  States  nominated  by  the  Privileges  and  Procedures Committee. In view of the fact that the remit of the Corporate Services Panel was to hold the Chief Minister's Department to account, that it would be appropriate for the Corporate Services Panel Chairman to serve on the Constitutional Advisory Panel.

It was noted that the deadline for applications was this day, however, the Committee considered there were issues which merited consideration with the Chief Minister.

The Committee considered the general process for nomination to  and  acceptance  on  this  Committee  and  whether  the involvement  of  a  scrutiny  chairman  or  member  would compromise the independent status of that member.

It was noted that the Chairman of the Social Affairs Panel had not been permitted to become a member of the Social Affairs Steering Group established by the Executive.

Consideration was given to the possibility of a scrutiny member taking part on the Advisory Panel as an observer, in the capacity of such independence could be retained.

It  was  agreed  that Deputy  Duhamel  would  inform  the Chairman,  Corporate  Services  Panel  of  the  Committee's serious concerns and also urgently discuss the issues with the Chief Minister.

RD

8.

28.07.06 Item 9

Communications  Sub-Group  [Public  Engagement  Group] (PEG)

The  Committee  received  an  oral  update  from   Deputy  Le Hérissier. regarding the ongoing work of PEG.

It was noted  that an  advert had  been placed  in  the  Jersey Evening  Post  on  two  occasions  for  a  PR  Consultancy.  The advert had also been placed on the Scrutiny Website. A number of companies and individuals had expressed interest and formal written expressions of interest were due today 8th September 2006.

The  interested  parties  would  be  requested  to  give  a  brief presentation to PEG on 15th September 2006 by way of a short- listing process and those successful would be invited to give a presentation to the Chairmen's Committee on 22nd September

 

2006.

In the event that only a few companies expressed an interest there would only be one day set aside [22nd September 2006] for presentations directly to the Chairmen's Committee.

In view of the fact that the proposed 3 month trial included December which was generally a quiet month, it was agreed to extend the trial period to four months and would run from 1st October 2006 to 31st January 2006.

The working relationship between the successful company and the Scrutiny Office was queried and the Committee was advised that the Office had never been included in any deliberations when  considering  the  function  and  operation  of  the  PR consultancy.

The President asserted that the PR company would take its instructions  from  the  Chairmen  in  accordance  with  the  draft Code of Practice.

The Committee noted and approved draft terms of engagement and a draft contract so that these cold be actioned immediately upon selection.

It was proposed that the responsibility to liaise with the PR Consultancy be extended to Sub-Panel Chairmen but this was not  agreed  as  it  would  be  in  contravention  to  the  Code  of Practice which put responsibility on the Chairmen.

It was agreed to amend Point 10.00 of the contract - "Force Majeur" to delete the words "States of Jersey " and replace by the words Chairmen's Committee.

The  Committee  further  agreed  that  members  of  the  Public Engagement Group who were not members of the Chairmen's Committee  should  be  invited  to  attend  on  22nd  September 2006.

9. Draft Code of Practice [legal advice]

28.07.06 The Committee noted P.101/2006 Comments on the Code of Item 20 Practice for Scrutiny Panels and the Public Accounts Committee presented  to  the  States  on  1st  September  2006  by  H.M. Attorney General.

The Committee considered a range of issues relating to this including scrutiny forming part of government, support of the Chief  Minister  and  the  need  to  not  be  placed  in  apposition whereby scrutiny takes a Minister to court.

It was noted that the Chief Minister would be absent from the States on the date the Code of Practice was scheduled for debate  (26th  September  2006).  Due  to  this  the  Committee agreed that the debate should be deferred.

It was agreed that Deputy Duhamel would reconsider the comments of H.M. Attorney General along with the relevant section of the Code of Practice and prepare a paper for a RD

 

supplementary Chairmen's Committee meeting to be held on 19th September 1.00pm. The paper would highlight the points within H.M. Attorney General's comments which might be incorporated into the Code of Practice.

 

10.

28.07.06 Item 11

Joint Scrutiny Public Meeting

The Committee agreed that this should take place once the PR consultants had taken up their role. The 9th November 2006 for an evening public meeting was earmarked in principle with the venue to be decided.

The  Public  Engagement  Group  and  Panels  should  be requested  to  forward  any  topics  for  discussions  at  this event to the Scrutiny Manager.

PANELS/ PEG

11.

28.07.06 Item 18

Scrutiny Away-Day

The  Committee  recalled  that  a  scrutiny  away-day  had  been approved in principle. It was decided that it would be useful to hold  this  following  the  seminar  by  Sir  Robert  Phillis  on Community Engagement but before the scheduled joint scrutiny public meeting on 9th November 2006.

The  Committee  approved  23rd  October  2006  in  principle, commencing at 10.30am.

Although  the  venue  was  to  be  decided,  it  was  agreed  that information regarding hiring Haut de la Garenne and additional housekeeping matters be investigated.

It was also agreed that the day would need to be programmed and  it  was  agreed  that  Panels  would  be  asked  to  forward matters  for  consideration  to  the  Scrutiny  Manager.  Deputies Mezbourian  and  Reed  were  tasked  with  arranging  a  draft programme in conjunction with the Scrutiny Manager. Issues might include the following -

sharing of information between Panels; communication with the Executive; public engagement.

It was also agreed that a trained facilitator would be necessary and this would be researched by the Scrutiny Manager and Deputies Mezbourian and Reed.

Inviting  members  of  the  Council  of  Minister  for  part  of  the afternoon session was considered but no decision reached.

PANELS JR/DM/KTF

12.

28.07.06 Item 13

Accountancy Advice

The Committee received expressions of interest from a number of accountancy firms.

Following  consideration  of  the  expressions  of  interest,  the Committee agreed that criteria needed to be drawn up by which the  companies  could  be  assessed  and  tasked  Deputies  Le Hérissier and Ferguson to undertake to do this.

RLH/SF

 

The  Committee  received  and  approved  a  draft  letter  of engagement and a draft contract subject to some amendments.

 

13.

Corporate  Services  Panel - Evaluation  of  Financial Framework and Age of Consent Reviews

The Committee received and noted an evaluation of the above review and also noted that the overall cost was £260 which had been for transcription services.

Performance Indicator - the Panel's amendment engendered a key  debate  in  the  Assembly's  consideration  of  the  Strategic Plan.

£844.95 - Age of Consent. The Committee received and noted an evaluation of the above review. It was noted that this referral to scrutiny was early in the year and no work programme had been  established.  Had  a  work  programme  been  established reviewing matters referred back by the States would not always be possible.

The  importance  of  keeping  terms  of  reference  as  wide  as possible was also noted as the terms of reference for this review had  had  to  be  amended  due  to  the  constrictiveness  of  the original terms of reference.

 

14.

Corporate Services Panel Update Report Work was ongoing on GST and Zero Ten.

 

15.

Economic Affairs Panel - formation of Sub-Panel (Jersey Telecoms)

The Committee noted the establishment of an Economic Affairs Sub-Panel (Jersey Telecoms), its terms of reference and its membership.

The Committee was advised that the terms of reference had been  amended  since  circulation  of  the  agenda  and  the Committee noted these by way of an oral report by Deputy Southern . The Panel was investigating the appointment of an adviser and  it had  held  its  first public  meeting the previous evening which had been well attended. A wide range of topics had been discussed which had given rise to some new issues.

With regard to the venue, it had been held at Hautlieu School which was a good venue and there was also recording facilities. Some of the media coverage about members expressing anger was considered to be inappropriate.

The Chairman, Economic Affairs Panel assured the Committee, that whilst he was opposed to the principle of privatisation in general, if the evidence proved in this case, that privatisation was the best option, the report would reflect this.

He stressed the importance of maintaining an objective view irrespective of individual political beliefs.

 

16.

Economic Affairs Panel Update Report

 

 

The Economic Affairs Sub-Panel (Dairy) - the Sub-Panel had visited some dairies and work was ongoing.

The drafting of the Fulfilment Report had been put on hold for some time due to the long-tern illness of a Scrutiny Officer. However, the Scrutiny Manager, having considered the current workload  of  officers  and  identified  capacity  in  one  of  the Corporate  Services  Officers,  who  is  nearing  the  end  of  the review into Zero Ten.

All Corporate Services Panel members had been advised of this decision and it was anticipated that the fulfilment report drafting would not take much longer than four weeks.

 

17.

Social Affairs Panel - formation of Sub-Panel (Overdale)

The Committee noted the establishment of the above Social Affairs Sub-Panel, its terms of reference and its membership.

 

18.

Social Affairs Panel Update Report

The  Panel  had  met  all  Department  Ministers  regarding  the Annual  Business  Plans  and  had  decided  not  to  submit  any amendments as a Panel.

H.M. Prison La Moye - the Chairman has prepared a draft paper regarding work undertaken to date on behalf of Panel but this had not been a formal review. Senator Kinnard had expressed her concern that this was not a formal review and expressed the opinion that the Panel should not, therefore, be asking questions on the matter.

The Income Support Review figures required for this review to move forward would not be available until December so a draft interim report was currently being drafted.

The  Youth  Service  review  had  been  deferred  due  to  the establishment of the review into Overdale, but the report on the Youth Service from the Minister of Education, Sport and Culture would not be available until December.

The Panel was due to meet the Minister of Health on 14th September 2006.

GP Out of Hours had been awaiting the circulation of the report from the JCRA which had now been made available. The next formal hearing would held on 29th September 2006.

The role of Centeniers review - the Panel had undertaken a fact- finding visit to Southampton the previous week and found the visit very beneficial. There would be a public hearing on 19th and 21st September 2006. It was anticipated that the report might be ready to be presented by the end of October.

 

19.

Environment Panel Update Report

The following three reviews were ongoing -

 

Planning process - this was drawing to a close. There were a few final meetings with Ministers during September and the review would be concluded shortly afterwards.

Waste - there was a large volume of work waiting to be written up. An exhibition related to the review was being held by the  Panel at  the  Royal  Jersey  Horticultural  and  Horticultural Society   Hall ,   Trinity  on  15th  /16th  September  2006.  A  wide range  of  people  had  been  invited  to  the  event  on  16th September 2006.

Consideration was given to whether this was an appropriate use of scrutiny funds and whether this was, in fact, organising a change  to  policy  but  the  Committee  was  assured  that  the purpose  was  for  data  acquisition.  The  Committee  was  also advised that the Zero Waste trial currently being undertaken by the Parish of St. Helier was also a means of data collation in that it would determine the extent to which food waste could be composted with other waste. The Committee noted that the trail had been organised by the Parish of St. Helier and not scrutiny as the latter was only interested in statistical information arising from the trial. There had been some difficulties however these had mainly been overcome. The Scrutiny Panel had agreed to pay £5,000 by way of a grant towards the trial in order to obtain statistics arising therefrom. That money had not yet been paid. It was noted that the Parish of St. Helier was paying in the region of £20,000 for the trial.

The Chairman explained that the Panel was not working closely with the Minister of Transport and Technical Services and had not invited him to do so as it was not for the Minister to be involved in a Parish trial but to be consider the outcome of that trial.

It  was  noted  that  the  Transport  and  Technical  Services Department  had  been  unprepared  to  consider  alternative options,  consequently,  whilst  some  unorthodox  methodology seemed to have occurred, data acquisition had to be obtained.

The Chairman also explained that £240 had been paid towards the shipping costs of the glass imploding machine, £750.00 for that machine's rental and that the total cost of the composting exhibition was £4,000. There was uncertainty as to whether all the glass collected had been processed.

Consideration  was  also  given  to  an  EU  Directive  which prohibited farmers spreading sludge on the land which had been derived from food waste. Deputy Duhamel explained that the United  Kingdom  had  heavy  metal  contamination  due  to industrial effluents in drains but those issues did not apply to the Island.

The Chairman advised the Committee that the report on the waste review would be completed by the end of 2006.

Design of Homes: the report was due by the end of 2006. In order to minimise delays in the planning process, the Minister had requested an interim report on two specific items.

 

The Panel had submitted a comment to the Annual Business Plan regarding paragraph (g) of the Plan as there might be alternative solutions for sludge drying which could affect the costings.  The  costings  in  the  Plan  could  only,  therefore,  be aspirational.

Water  Resources:  Drilling  would  commence  on  18th September 2006 and drill as deeply as the drillers would wish to. It was recalled that a letter had been sent to the Conseil General de la Manche earlier in the year to request access to findings from research undertaken.

 

20.

Public Accounts Committee

Deputy  Ferguson  had  lodged  an  amendment  to  the  Annual Business Plan regarding the methodology used to arrive at the decision  of  which  properties  to  sell.  The  draft  Terms  of Reference in the proposition might change as the Comptroller and Auditor General had asset disposal on his agenda for next year.

The Comptroller and Auditor General had recently published a report on the Jersey Childcare Trust.

The  Comptroller  and  Auditor  General  had  been  asked  to undertake a review of the Battle of Flowers expenditure. He would probably also undertake a review of the expenditure on Battle of Britain and it was noted that Deputy Ferguson would withdraw from either of these due to a conflict of interest

 

21.

Use  of  Blampied  Room  by  Treasury  and  Resources Department

The  above  room  had  been  booked  by  the  Treasury  and Resources  Department  for  the  appointment  of  advisers  for Jersey Telecoms on 26th September 2006. It was noted that this was a States meeting date and the Chairmen's Committee perceived no problem with this use.

 

22.

General Working Practices.

Deputy Mezbourian explained the process that the Social Affairs Panel  had  undertaken  regarding  discussions  with  Ministers about  the  Annual Business  Plan.  It  was  noted  that  in-depth questions  were  not  asked  however  there  was  consideration given  to  future  plans  in  light  of  discussions  held  with  the Ministers held earlier in the year.

The Committee considered that a report in the Jersey Evening Post which had stated that scrutiny had not produced many reports was inaccurate and did not account for the amount of work being undertaken.

With regard to the establishment of a fifth Panel, it was noted that there might be some members of the existing Social Affairs Panel who would wish to move once the new Panel had been established.

 

23.

Christmas Arrangements

 

There was a suggestion that the officers should be treated to lunch nearer to Christmas by the Chairmen's Committee and Scrutiny Members. There was also consideration that individual panels would wish to treat their own officers to a lunch. The Committee  was  requested  to  consider  whether  it  would  be considered good practice to use the scrutiny budget for this purpose. A lunch was agreed in principle with no decision on how it would be funded.

24. Next Scheduled Meeting

The Chairmen's Committee meeting of 22nd September 2006 would be dedicated to presentations from PR consultancies.

Signed .. Date:.. President, Chairmen's Committee