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Chairmen's Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 2 November 2007

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CHAIRMEN'S COMMITTEE

Meeting of Chairmen held on 2nd November 2007 Meeting Number 64

Present Deputy S C Ferguson, President Deputy R C Duhamel

Deputy G P Southern (Item only)

Deputy A Breckon

Deputy J G Reed

Deputy P J D Ryan

Deputy D.W. Mezbourian

Apologies Deputy R.G. Le Herissier, Vice President

In attendance Mrs. K. Tremellen-Frost, Scrutiny Manager

Mrs. E. Kingston-Walsh, Scrutiny Officer

 

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

1.

Minutes

The Committee requested that the Minutes of the 5th October 2007 be amended as follows: -

Item  2:  Panel  Reports:  Health,  Social  Services  and Housing Panel: resignation of Senator Shenton. The Senator had resigned from all Scrutiny Sub-Panels in which he was involved.

Item  2  Panel  Reports  PAC:  The  Chairman  of  the Education  and  Home  Affairs  Scrutiny  Panel  had  asked  the Chairman of that Committee when the PAC's meeting with the Education Department would be held.

Item  7  Scrutiny  of  the  States  Business  Plan:  The Chairman  of  the  Corporate  Services  Scrutiny  Panel  had  not declined a request to forward records of meetings held between the Corporate Services Panel, Chief Minister and Minister for Treasury and Resources but commented that as the meetings were held in private session, the Minutes were equally recorded as such.

The Minutes of the 9th October 2007 were approved as a true record of the meeting but not signed.

The Minutes of the 17th October 2007 were approved as a true record of the meeting until the arrival of Deputy G.P. Southern during item 4 of the meeting at which time he requested that the Minutes be amended as follows; -

Item 1 para 4: Additional sentence "It was agreed that scrutiny should be involved from the outset"

KTF

2 05.10.06 Item 6

Internal Review into Working Practices

The Committee recalled that it had agreed that key findings and recommendations  would  be  prepared  by  Deputies  R.  Le Hérissier and J. Reed. It noted that this work was pending and agreed that it might be preferable to await the Privileges and Procedures  Sub-Committee's  report  on  its  review  into  the Machinery  of  Government  Reforms  which  was  due  for publication shortly.

JR/RLH

3

Sub-Panels: Presentation of reports/rapporteurs

 

05.10.07 Item8

The Committee noted that work was underway in preparing a report for the Chairmen's Committee in respect of the above by the Deputy Greffier of the States.

DGoS

4.

Quarterly Financial Report: third quarter

The Committee noted that further information had been supplied upon  request  regarding  a  breakdown  of  miscellaneous expenditure  across  the  Panels.  A  further  request  regarding details of this breakdown and the reconciliation of figures would be forwarded to the Finance and Administration Manager.

DA-MG

5.

Panel updates

The Committee noted the Panel activity reports and the following additional information:

Corporate Services Panel

  1. The  Chairman  requested  that  any  concerns

regarding  the  Migration  Policy  should  be  forwarded  to  the Migration Policy Sub-Panel.

  1. The Chairman advised the Committee that the

Sub-Panel's report on the Waterfront Development was due later this year. The Chairman agreed to request the Chairman of the Sub-Panel to contact Deputy Duhamel directly about any issues he wished to raise.

Economic Affairs Panel

No information additional to Panel paper

Education and Home Affairs

  1. The  Minister  of  Home  Affairs  was  aiming  to

produce her response to the Centeniers Report within the six week  allocated  period.  The  Panel  had  considered  presenting comments on the proposition brought by the Deputy of St. Martin requesting an independent review into the prosecution service but  has  decided  to  await  the  response  of  the  Home  Affairs Minister;

  1. Issues had arisen regarding the Chief of Police

attending a private scrutiny meeting which had culminated in the Chairman having read the witness statement to him before he was prepared to speak. The matter is being looked into.

Health, Social Services and Housing

  1. The Panel had agreed not to work jointly with the

Housing Department as there were a number of issues which merited  review  which  the  Department  was  not  intending  to review. Consideration was given to the possibility of the Panel looking at the statistics relating to the Housing Needs Survey.

  1. Senator Shenton had suggested a meeting with

the  former  Overdale  Sub-Panel  with  the  aim  of  advising  the Panel of their plans in this regard. It was noted that the Chairman of the Panel also needed to be involved.

PR

KTF

 

Environment

(i) Consideration would be given to a number of

issues surrounding the Minister of Planning and Environment's recent decision to grant in principle planning permission for the Energy from Waste plant.

Public Accounts Committee

A review into States Expenditure would be drivenand co- ordinated  by  the  PAC  following  work  undertaken  by  the Comptroller  and  Auditor  General.  No  Ministers  or  Assistant Ministers would be involved in order to protect the independency of the PAC and this had been made clear to the Chief Minister and Chief Executive.

On  reaching  the  stage  when  the  PAC  considered  individual Departments it would wish the relevant Panel to be present at those  discussions.  As  the  C&AG  had  a  freedom  to  question anyone  whereas  PAC  was  restricted  to  interviewing  Chief Officers  and  Scrutiny  Panels  to  Ministers,  it  was  considered highly appropriate that this method of working occur.

Noting that there would be a working group comprising Assistant Ministers  the  Committee  considered  whether  this  was appropriate given that the group was not formally constituted by the States and therefore had no status.

It was noted that input from all would be valuable, however the PAC was fulfilling its remit by reviewing expenditure issues and forwarding  this  to  scrutiny  for  a  review  into  forward  plans regarding expenditure to be undertaken.

 

6. 05.10.07 item 3

Newsletter

It  was  noted  that  the  newsletter  would  be  circulated  to  all households during the week beginning 5th November 2007. It was also noted that an evaluation into the preparation of the newsletter and related costs would be undertaken and brought to a subsequent Committee meeting.

Acknowledgments and thanks were made to all those who had been involved in its production and who had met deadlines.

 

7.

States Annual Business Plan

The Committee considered reports from each of the Scrutiny Panels in respect of an evaluation of the States Annual Business Plan and ways in which scrutiny could be more effective. There was general agreement that the process had been extremely difficult  to  understand  with  changing  terminology  and  figures without any explanations. It was agreed that the system was unworkable in its present form and steps were needed to rectify this for the immediate future.

The Committee considered a proposed revised timetable from Deputy J. Reed with a number of amendments which had been seen and accepted by Treasury Officers. However some concern was  expressed  that  this  mirrored  the  former  Fundamental Spending Review (FSR) process.

The Committee also considered a proposal by the Corporate Services Panel to form a Finance Sub-Panel, of which the Chief Minister  and  Treasury  Minister  were  fully  supportive.  The

 

Chairman, Corporate Services Panel maintained that it was the responsibility of that Panel to review the overall framework and that  it  could  undertake  this  work  by  incorporating  a representative  per  Panel  on  a  Sub-Panel  together  with appointing  a  specialist  adviser.  This  would  permit  an  earlier involvement of scrutiny in the process. Consideration was given as to whether this would create duplication with the PAC review. It was clarifies that the PAC was aiming at providing the scrutiny Panels with a solid foundation of figures for them to work from.

There was further concern expressed that the proposed intention of a Sub-Panel was to review detailed expenditure whereas the matters which should be considered were policy changes about which Departments should be able to advise the Panels.

Given the complexity and number of the variables and issues involved, together with recognition of lack of understanding of the current system, it was agreed that the best way forward would be to  receive  a  briefing  from  the  relevant  Treasury  and  Chief Minister's Department's Officers in the first instance. Any training would  be  deferred  until  the  system  itself  had  been  clarified internally.

The Committee agreed that it would be appropriate to request that  the  relevant  officers  attend  the  Chairmen's  Committee meeting on 14th November 2007 with the Chief Minister and the Chief Executive. In the event that this request was refused, those officers should be invited to meet the Committee immediately after that meeting.

Signed Date .. President, Chairmen's Committee