Public Accounts Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 26 February 2007

PM/vnl/59.06 41

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE

(13th Meeting)

26th February 2007

NOTES OF A MEETING OF THE CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS PART A

Members present -

Deputy S.C. Ferguson, Chairman Deputy A. Breckon

Deputy J.G. Reed C. Evans M. Magee

Apologies received from -

Senator J.L. Perchard

Connétable T.J. du Feu of St. Peter Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville R. Bignell A. Grimes

C. Swinson, O.B.E. - The Committee noted that the Comptroller and Auditor General was unavailable to attend as a result of his involvement as an expert witness in a case before the courts in the United Kingdom.

In attendance -

P. Monamy, Clerk to the Public Accounts Committee

Note: The Notes of this meeting comprise Part A only.

"Battle of A1. The Meeting, with reference to Minutes B2 and B3 of the Public Accounts Flowers Committee of 29th January 2007, noted that edited transcripts of the "Battle of Association- Flowers Association- financial grant for 2006" and "States Property Plan" Hearings financial grant (held on 4th and 11th December 2006, respectively) had been uploaded to the States for 2006"; Assembly (Scrutiny) website. The Chairman reported that action was being taken "States Property to establish a separate website for the Public Accounts Committee so as to separate Plan"; and it from the Scrutiny website, although there would be links between the 2 sites. "Monitoring of

sickness levels": In addition, it was further noted that the transcript for an earlier Hearing (held on Hearings - edited 22nd May 2006) relating to "monitoring of sickness levels" had also been uploaded transcripts to the website.

uploaded to

website.

530/6(13)

1447/1(8)

Battle of Flowers A2. The Meeting considered a draft of the Public Accounts Committee report on Association- the "2006 Battle of Flowers."

grant for 2006:

report of Public The Chairman, Deputy Breckon and Mr. Magee declared an indirect interest insofar Accounts as they were each members of an organisation (Battle of Britain International Air Committee. Display, Consumer Council and Jersey Domestic Violence Forum, respectively) 530/6(13) which  received  grant  funding  from  the  Economic  Development  Department

(E.D.D.).

Deputy  Breckon  outlined  the  difficulties  which  the  new  E.D.D.  requirements arising from the aftermath of the Battle of Flowers' debacle were causing grant- aided organisations. Applicant organisations now received for completion a 40- point  questionnaire  as  a  pre-cursor  to  any  consideration  of  an  application  for funding. This process was proving to be time-consuming for the organisations concerned, many of which did not have adequate expertise available to them. In the case of the Consumer Council, it was reported that grant-aid had not yet been paid to  the  organisation,  even  though  certain  financial  commitments  were  being demanded by some suppliers.

Deputy  Reed  asked  whether  firm  recommendations  in  the  Committee's  report would be preferable to the present "conclusions" referred to under the section "Steps taken by E.D.D." and whether a more direct reporting line back to the Committee would be desirable. It was further contended that formal Ministerial Decisions should be recorded at the time that the decisions were made, and not subsequently.

Mr. Evans suggested that in the event that compliance were to be imposed in respect of grants over a certain amount, it was apparent that some cost would arise. The recommendation of the Comptroller and Auditor General (C.&A.G.) that an Internal  Audit  report  should  be  requested  in  respect  of  each  grant-aided project/scheme at the end of 2007 was supported, and it was agreed that pressure should be maintained on the Chief Executive, E.D.D. for the production of a report specific report on the outcome of the negotiations for the 2007 Battle of Flowers grant,  with  particular  emphasis  on  compliance  with  the  C.&A.G.'s recommendations.

It was agreed that E.D.D. should support compliance from individual grant-aided bodies without imposing an undue burden upon the smaller organisations through unrealistic guidance involving too onerous requirements.

The Meeting accepted that the report covered all the points which needed to be made and, subject to consideration by the Chairman of a number of suggested minor alterations, it was agreed that the final version should be published without further delay.

The Clerk was directed to take the necessary action for the report to be presented to the States in due course.

Review of the A3. The  Meeting  considered  a  request  from  the  Privileges  and  Procedures first 12 months of Committee for the views of the Public Accounts Committee on matters covered by Ministerial the review of the first 12 months of Ministerial government which was being government: undertaken by a Sub-Committee.

P.P.C. Sub-

Committee - The Meeting decided that, in addition to any views individual members might comments. wish  to  convey  to  the  Sub-Committee,  it  would  wish  the  Public  Accounts 465/1(77) Committee to submit a number of comments to the review based on a draft list

which had been prepared by the Chairman which would be distributed to members for their consideration as soon as possible. The Meeting noted that P.P.C. had indicated that it wished to receive the Committee's comments no later than the end of February 2007.

Annual report for A4. The Meeting considered a draft of the annual report on its work during 2006 2006 of the for inclusion in the annual report to be produced by the Privileges and Procedures Public Accounts Committee, which was required under the terms of Standing Order 143(d) of the

Committee for States of Jersey.

inclusion in

P.P.C. annual The Meeting noted the format which had been adopted for the Public Accounts report. Committee's  annual  report,  which  included  an  introduction,  together  with 512/1(6) references to its relationship with the Comptroller and Auditor General and its

procedures and powers; sections on the operation of the Committee, its structure, its membership, and the meetings it had held; details of public hearings on the topics of "States of Jersey Monitoring of Sickness levels", "The Battle of Flowers Report" and "Methodology of the States Property Plan"; as well as a reference to the "Annual Accounts of the States"; and the Chairman's concluding comments.

It was agreed that the Chairman should approach C.&A.G. regarding the possible inclusion of a reference to "G.A.A.P. (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) Accounting", following which the Meeting decided that the Annual Report should be sent to P.P.C.

The Clerk was directed to take the necessary action for the report to be forwarded to the Privileges and Procedures Committee in due course for inclusion in the annual report of the activities of the States Assembly which would be presented to the States in due course.