Chairmen's Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 21 July 2008

Present

Deputy S C Ferguson, President Deputy R G Le Hérissier, Vice-President Deputy A. Breckon

Deputy R C Duhamel

Deputy G P Southern

Deputy P J D Ryan

Deputy D.W. Mezbourian

Deputy J G Reed

Apologies

Absent

In attendance

Mrs K. Tremellen-Frost, Scrutiny Manager

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

1. Minutes

The Minutes of 20th, 24th and 26th June 2008 were approved and signed.

2. East of Albert Plans: Request to Chief Minister for presentation. No responses had been received to the letter sent to the Chief Minister

in respect of a request for a presentation on plans for the harbour area. A follow-up request will be sent.

SF/KTF

20.06.08 item 9

3. Monitoring Government Assurances

The Committee noted that the Privileges and Procedures Committee had  been  contacted  in  writing  with  a  request  that that  Committee considers a means of listing Member's assurances given during oral question time so that such assurances might be monitored.

4. Ministerial decisions/subordinate legislation

The Committee noted concerns in respect of Ministerial Decisions. These included some being concealed behind Part B agendas so not all Members were aware of them and also the lack of background information to support the decisions. The Committee also expressed concerns  regarding  the  making  of  Regulations  and  Orders  and whether Orders were indeed made when the necessary legislation was Regulations. The Committee was advised of a future officer working group which was to be established to review Ministerial Decisions and it was agreed that its concerns should be forwarded to this group. It was noted that the Minister for Home Affairs had recently reviewed the Department's process for the making of Ministerial Decisions and the Chairman, Education & Home Affairs Panel undertook to circulate the revised protocol to the Chairmen's Committee.

KTF

DM

5. Financial Report - 2nd quarter

The Committee received and noted the above and also received an oral  update  from  the  Scrutiny  Manager  on  the  current  manpower situation. The Committee recalled that the Privileges and Procedures Committee had supported the retention of the scrutiny budget for 2009 at the same level as this year.

20.06.08 item 2

6. Away-Day

The  Committee  noted  that  some  Panels  had considered  items for discussion at an away-morning scheduled for 26th September 2008 but had no additional items for discussion. It was agreed that Panels should be reminded of the date and the topics for discussion and asked to add any further matters if necessary. It was agreed to include the interface between scrutiny and the Executive and the identification of more tools for scrutiny to undertake its work on the agenda.

Deputy   Mezbourian requested that her apologies be noted for the away-morning.

KTF

Finance  Sub-Panel:  Based  on  email  communication  from  the Comptroller and Auditor General to the Finance Sub-Panel, concerns were expressed in respect of forecasting and the use of the process for political gain. It was recognised that forecasting by its very nature would usually be  inaccurate, however, it  was  inappropriate to use financial forecasting to suit political agendas.

States  Business  Plan:  Procurement/IT/Property  Plan  and  Human Resources: it was noted that "watching briefs" were being kept on these  areas  and  that  they  were  not  reviews  in  their  own  right. Individual  Panel  Members  were  considering  different  areas.  The Committee agreed that this type of approach merited discussion as information  received  could  be  useful  to  other  Members  and  there should be an assurance that the information will be made available in a timely fashion.

Island Plan consultation: the Chairman advised the Committee that the Panel had been party to talks during the preparation of the Island Plan and had attended meetings in relation to the matter. He believed that the direction of the Plan had been influenced by other Ministers and that whatever scrutiny contributed it would be ignored.

(e) Health, Social Security and Housing

Telephone Masts: [ Deputy Ryan recorded his declaration of interest in the  matter].  It  was  noted  that  the  Jersey  Competition  Regulatory Authority's website would show the location of all the masts, where to get information and there would also be independent monitoring of the masts.  The  Sub-Panel  would  comment  on  the  response  from  the Minister and then it would be disbanded.

Housing: a statement had been made in the States that scrutiny would be participating in a working group with the Executive. The Committee was advised that this was not the case as if scrutiny were to be involved in policy formation, it would be subsequently be unable to

(f) PAC

The  Committee  noted  that  meetings  had  been  held  with  both  the Internal and External Auditors regarding accounting reports and that the  Committee  considered  that  there  was  room  for  improvement. Hearings  have  been  held  with  the  Principal  of  Highlands  College, Director of Education and Chief Officer, of Employment and Social Security.  Future  hearings  would  shortly  be  held  with  Accounting Officers for housing, income tax and property holdings and finally with the  Treasurer  of  the  States.  The  Committee  remained  concerned about  the  financial  management  across  the  States  and  about  the property maintenance budget which had not yet been transferred to Property Holdings.

Access to information and effectiveness of scrutiny

In respect of the difficulties experienced by the Environment Panel in acquiring  information  from  the  Transport  and  Technical  Services Department, it was suggested that, in the first instance the Panel should call the Minister to a hearing to answer questions relating to withholding information. The Chairman considered that this would not be a valuable exercise. The Committee subsequently suggested that the Chief Minister and the Chief Executive should be informed. The Chairman  of  the  Environment  Panel  believed  that  such  an  action would not result in a positive outcome either and that information would still not be forthcoming, believing that the Committee system had worked better in terms of access to information. There was some agreement  that  more  information  was  forthcoming  if  a  Member requested it as an individual backbencher rather than as a Scrutiny Member. It was recognised that the willingness to provide information varied  across  Departments  and  from  Minister  to  Ministers. Consideration was given to the effectiveness of scrutiny, the benefits or otherwise of the Committee system and the evolution of political parties to form an opposition.

20.06.08 item 3

Spending review: Comptroller and Auditor General

The detailed reports on spending pressures of individual departments should be due soon. The Committee agreed that this needed to be followed up.

18.01.08 item 7

Home and Lifestyle Exhibition

It was agreed that officers would man the stand between 6th and 9th November with Members attending if available. The Committee agreed that Deputy Reed should be delegated the political oversight of the exhibition  which  involved  such  matters  as  political  sign  off  of expenditure.  It  was  noted  that  this  was  just  before  the  Deputies' elections and that attendance at the exhibition by Members should not be used for electioneering purposes.

20.06.08 item 8

Annual Business Plan 2009

The Committee again expressed its concerns at the timing of the circulation  of  the  States  Annual  Business  Plan  to  Members.  Such timing restricted scrutiny to undertaking its work during the summer

recess which was not possible for a large number of Members who took holidays during the States recess in August. Consideration was given to  whether it would be advantageous to move to the same timings  as  the  United  Kingdom.  The  Committee  also  questioned whether the degree of confidentiality during preparation of the Annual Business Plan was necessary as it had seemed to be excessive.

Standing Order amendment: co-option

The Committee, having made one minor amendment to the report, approved  the  draft  report  and  proposition  on  co-option  of  a  non- Executive  Member  to  a  review  Panel  for  lodging  "au  Greffe"  and requested that the necessary action be taken.

KTF

Scrutiny of legislation

The  Committee  received  a  report  and  associated  documents  in respect  of  legislative  scrutiny  for  consideration  at  a  subsequent meeting. The Scrutiny Manager advised the Committee that work was currently being undertaken within the office to enable information on forthcoming legislation to be Panel specific.