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Public Accounts Committee
Record of Meeting
Date: 10th December 2012
Meeting No: 15
Present | Deputy T. Vallois, Chairman Senator S. C. Ferguson, (except item 11) Deputy R. Rondel (from item 7) Mr I. Ridgway Mr J Mills |
Apologies | Deputy G. Baudains Mr S. Haigh |
In attendance | Mr M. Robbins, Scrutiny Officer Mrs. J. Hales , Scrutiny Officer Mrs K. Tremellen-Frost, Scrutiny Manager (Item 10) |
Ref Back | Agenda matter | Action |
| 1. Records of Meetings Pending the inclusion of a discussion relating to financial and manpower implications contained within propositions placed before the States, the records of the meetings held on 12th November 2012 were approved. They were to be signed by the Chairman once amended. |
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512/9 | 2. Printer Contract The Chairman had not received documentation from an outside source relating to the Printer Contracts and it had therefore not been circulated. |
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512/1(24) | 3. Previous Recommendations The Committee wished to examine all the previous recommendations, made by this and previous Public Accounts Committees, along with those of the Comptroller and Auditor General. This was needed to establish what recommendations had been completed or to establish the reasons why no action had been taken. This was currently being dealt with by the Chairman in conjunction with the Officer. | TV / MR |
Item 4 12.11.12 512/1(29) | 4. Shadow Tourism Board P.170/2010 In relation to P.170/2010 the Committee had previously agreed that a proposition was to be brought to the States to remove the PAC requirements within P.170/2010. It was accepted that this was a low priority but that it should be drafted when possible. | TV / MR |
Item 3 12.11.12 | 5. Comptroller and Auditor General: recruitment The Chairman gave an oral update on the progress of the recruitment of a new Comptroller and Auditor General, informing the Committee that |
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| interviews had been undertaken on 30th November 2012, with suitable candidates being apparent from within those interviewed. Due to the unavailability of one candidate on 30th November, there was to be one more interview on Thursday 13th December 2012. There was to be a decision relating to the successful candidate after that interview. The Committee discussed the communication required between the Committee and the new Comptroller and Auditor General and agreed that the relationship between the two was paramount to a productive future. |
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Item 7 12.11.12 512/15 | 6. Compromise Agreements The Committee recalled the response from the Privileges and Procedures Committee Sub-Committee which requested the Committee supply examples of impact assessments which the Sub-Committee could examine. It agreed that the proposed response was suitable and was to be sent. Senator Ferguson was to present the response to the Privileges and Procedures Committee as a member of that Committee. | MR SF |
512/1(48) | 7. Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. The Committee noted an article within the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, Jersey Branch News which discussed the attendance of former Committee member, Deputy Pitman and an officer to the Seminar on Public Accounts Committees. |
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Item 7 12.11.12 512/9 | 8. Procurement The Committee examined scoping documents relating to a review in to the Central Procurement Unit of the States of Jersey and agreed the principle that an examination of the printing contract would be better placed as part of a more general review into procurement. The Chairman produced a relevant document to be circulated to the Committee which was to be supplied to the officer. It was agreed that the following considerations were to be part of the review:
It was agreed that this review was to be undertaken and that, in his absence, Mr. S. Haigh was to be invited to be the lead member as he had championed the process to date. Should he accept the task, he was to arrange the drafting of the Terms of Reference for consideration of the Committee. | TV MR SH |
| Procurement was recognized as a specialist area and it was considered that this was a case where an outside advisor may assist the process of the Committee. Enquiries were to be made and options of an advisor were to be returned to the Committee for final approval. Consideration was given to the Hay' process of examining roles in the States of Jersey and the processes of allocating additional hours of work, overtime and payment for extra work. The Committee considered the time line for the review and agreed that it was too early for that decision to be made at this time. | MR |
512/19 | 9. Grants and Subsidies The Committee noted two scoping documents and discussed whether it should review Grants and Subsidies in general or a smaller review relating to the grant to a specific company, Canbedone Productions Limited'. In consideration of a review relating to the grant supplied to the individual company, Canbedone Productions Limited', the Committee recognized that there were outstanding issues of concern and therefore the Committee agreed to undertake the review. Deputy R. Rondel was to act as lead member. It was also recognized that in this case there may be significant matters of commercial sensitivity and that parts of the review may need to be undertaken in private to protect the confidentialities that would necessarily have to be examined. The lead member was to liaise with the officer to forward the review by drafting terms of reference for consideration of the Committee. The Committee also recalled that it held an interest in Grants and Subsidies overall and decided to undertake a review into the corporate governance in this area. The following members of the Committee declared areas of conflict relating to a review of grants:
In recognition of possible conflicts, the Committee decided that members, having declared their interests, were to excuse themselves from any area they felt conflicted without being conflicted for the review in general. The Committee discussed the time available to members and officers to undertake the intended work being considered and decided that by dividing the work up to lead members, the required work could be achieved. This review was to be lead by Mr. J. Mills who was to liaise with the officer to forward the review by drafting terms of reference for consideration of the Committee. | RR / MR JM / MR |
Item 1 02.11.12 | 10. Financial Report and Accounts 2011. The Committee considered the draft report and agreed that where possible figures should be expressed in terms of the amount per |
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512/16 | household, based on figures from This is Jersey in Figures'. It was agreed that members would examine the draft report and advise the officer of any amendments they considered appropriate. Once that had been done, the key findings and recommendations could be considered. |
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Item 2 12.11.12 512/17 | 11. Lime Grove House: failure to acquire for use of Police Headquarters The Committee received a discussion paper relating to the proposed review into the acquisition of the property known as Lime Grove House. The Committee considered whether there would be value of spending time undertaking a review into this.. It was accepted that matters which arose within the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General should be examined with the focus of a review being corporate governance which fell within the Committee's terms of reference. However, the Committee considered the likelihood of issues of personality, responsibility and accountability arising and that those issues were unavoidable if the review was going to reach the heart of the matter. The Committee discussed whether it may be more appropriate to examine the corporate governance within a holistic review relating to the operation of Jersey Property Holdings. Consideration was given to the size and considerations of such a review and how far back in time the review needed to examine. The Committee agreed that it would be appropriate to review the management of States property, what Jersey Property Holdings was established to do and to identify what has been gained since the establishment of Jersey Property Holdings.. Noting that the Scrutiny Manager had volunteered to support a review which may involve Lime Grove House, the Committee considered that the Scrutiny Manager should support this review. | TV / KTF |
512/1(48) | 12. Doctors Rebates The Committee heard that there was concern over the charging by doctors for referrals. Standard practice being that part of the charge was presented to the patient for payment and part to Social Security. The concern lay in the process of the claim for Social Security payments. The concerns were generally of an anecdotal nature at this stage and were not for general circulation. The Committee agreed that this may be an area that required examination and that the subject should be scoped for consideration. Background information was to be obtained. The lead member was to be Senator S. Ferguson who was to liaise with the officer to forward the review for presentation to the Committee. | SF / MR |
| 13. Future Meeting The Committee agreed that the next scheduled meeting was to be at 12.30 pm on Monday 7th January 2013 in the Blampied Room of the States Buildings. |
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