Chairmen's Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 11 June 2013

Present

Deputy T.A Vallois, President Deputy S.G. Luce , Vice-President Senator S.C. Ferguson

Deputy J.H. Young

Deputy K.L. Moore

Apologies

Deputy J.M. Maçon

Absent

In attendance

For item 3 only the following representatives from the States of Guernsey Review Committee:-

Deputy P. Harwood, Chairman Deputy M. Falla ize, Vice-Chairman Deputy M. Dorey

Deputy G. St. Pier

Mrs C. Smith

Mr. T. Le Sueur , O.B.E.

Mrs K. Tremellen-Frost, Scrutiny Manager

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

1. Minutes of previous meetings

The records of the meetings held on 21st May 2013 were approved and signed.

510/1(83)

2. Transfer of responsibilities from Economic Development Minister to Chief Minister: effect on Scrutiny.

The Committee considered a paper prepared by the Vice-Chairman in respect  of  the  above  matter.  The  Committee  recalled  that  the  Chief Minister  had  made  a  statement  to  the  States  Assembly  about  the responsibility  for  Jersey  Financial  Services  being  transferred  from  the Economic Development Department to the Chief Minister's Department and  for  the  responsibility  for  the  Modernisation  programme  to  be transferred  from  the  Chief  Minister  to  the  Minister  for  Economic Development.

The Committee noted P.75/2013 whereby a raft of Financial Services was to be transferred from the Economic Development Department to the Chief Minister's Department. Firstly there had been no consultation with either the Chairmen's Committee or the Corporate Services or Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panels prior to this being announced in the States and followed by a related proposition. This was of concern as no consideration had been given by the Executive to the impact on the workload of the Scrutiny Panels.  It  was  noted  that  the  Corporate  Services  Scrutiny  Panel  had already got a heavy workload and scrutinising this important issue placed

too heavy a burden on this Panel. It was also noted that the matter had been discussed between the President and the Chief Minister and they had agreed that, for the purposes of scrutiny, these matters should remain with the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel. There was some confusion as to how this could be managed given that matters in respect of such areas would, in the States, be referred to the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel in accordance with Standing Orders. It was agreed that the Chairmen's Committee, as the overarching body charged with keeping under review the  operation  of  the  scrutiny  function,  should  take  a  formal  approach through presenting comments on the Proposition.

510/1(79)

3. Departmental Workflow template

The Committee recalled that this template had been discussed at the meeting of 18th December 2012 and it had been agreed that it would be rolled out across all Departments. The Committee agreed that where it had been completed it had worked really well and was saving time in the longer term as Panels were being kept up to date which meant fewer questions. However, there had been a number of Departments who had declined to complete the template and advised their respective Panels to consult the Departmental Business Plans. The Committee was extremely disappointed with this and discussed the principles of good governance. The Committee agreed that the President should attend on a CMB meeting to explain about  the  benefits  of  the  template  in  relation  to  the  principles  of governance, accountability and transparency.

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.  4.  States  of  Guernsey  Review  Committee  on  Machinery  of Government  

The Committee welcomed members of the States of Guernsey Review Committee to consider the structure of each of the Island's legislatures and to explore views as to which areas were working well and which weren't.

5. Panel Activity Reports

The Committee noted the Scrutiny Panels' Activity Reports.

23.04.12 Item 18

513/37(3)

6. Minister for External Affairs: Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel

It was noted that the report on the above review would be presented shortly.

514/1(37)

7. Bordeaux – visit of Scrutiny Officer with Executive Officers.

It was noted that the Scrutiny Officer supporting the Environment Scrutiny Panel  would  be  travelling to  Bordeaux  with  a  delegation  of  Executive Officers to undertake a fact-finding visit to an asbestos disposal facility. He would report back and it was intended that there would be Panel follow-up.

23.04.13 Item 12

512/18

8. Canbedone – Public Accounts Committee

The response had been received, however it was a response from the Minister for Economic Development. The responses of the Treasurer of the States had also been included within this response. There were some serious concerns about this as the role of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) was generally to hold Accounting Officers to account rather than Ministers. Recognising that Officers could not present responses to the States, the PAC had expected Accounting Officers responses to come back to the Committee rather than to be presented to the States in a Minister's  name.  It  being  in  a  Minister's  name  risked  politicising  the officials.  The  PAC  could,  of  course,  make  the  responses  public  by presenting them to the States in its own name.

It was noted that confusion had probably grown over some time in respect of these responses as, at one time, a former PAC did question Ministers and hold them to account.

It was also noted that the revised guidelines included a section whereby it was made clear that responses to PAC reports (where recommendations have been made to Accounting Officers) should be directly to the PAC and not through a political body: namely Ministers.

It  was  further  noted  that  the  majority  of  recommendations  had  been accepted  but  the  findings  heavily  criticised.  As  the  recommendations stemmed  from  the  findings,  this  seemed  nonsensical  and  would  be investigated further.

9. Light refreshments for lunchtime meetings.

The Committee noted correspondence from the Chairman, PPC in respect of the fact that Scrutiny/PAC would now be able to order light refreshments (sandwiches/fruit) for scheduled working lunches.

21.05.13 Item 8

510/1(3)

9. Questioning Training

The Committee noted that dates had been identified, Members informed as to their groups and all organisational arrangements made.

10. Future meetings

9th  July  2013  –  meeting  9.30am-11.30am  (Comptroller  and  Auditor General to give a brief presentation 11.00am – 11.30am in respect of her office, her work and her plans for working closely with Scrutiny whilst retaining the necessary independence of her office.)