Chairmen's Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 22 January 2013

Present

Deputy T.A. Vallois, President (Present for all items except 10,11,12,13,

15,16 &17)

Deputy S.G. Luce , Vice-President

Deputy J. Reed (representing Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel) Deputy J.M. Maçon

Deputy J.H. Young

Deputy K.L. Moore

Apologies

Senator S.C. Ferguson

Absent

In attendance

Mrs K. Tremellen-Frost, Scrutiny Manager

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

1. Minutes of previous meetings

The record of the meeting of 18th December 2012 was approved subject to some typographical amendments. The records of the meetings of 2nd and 11th January 2013 were also approved and accordingly signed.

510/1(45)

2. Quarterly Hearings: efficiency

The Committee noted that it was not incumbent on Panels to hold quarterly hearings; indeed the original intention had been to hold quarterly meetings with the purpose of sharing information about respective  work  programmes.  However,  quarterly  hearings  had evolved and the Committee agreed that these were beneficial in terms  of  public  accountability.  They  provided  opportunities  to explore the work of the Ministers and any delays on policies, to drill down on specific matters, to follow up on previous reviews and to question  recent  events.  It  was  agreed  that  quarterly  hearings should only be used to question live reviews when it related to recent  information  which  could  not  be  left  for  a  review-specific hearing.

On  a  related  matter,  the  Committee  considered  that  both  the Podcasts and Hansards of Public Hearings may be accessed more readily  if they were  indexed. An efficient way  of achieving this would be explored.

It was agreed that Panel Chairmen needed to consider how they would deal with cross-cutting issues.

Chair men

18.12.12 Item 4

530/1(51)

3. Skills Strategy Review

It  was  noted  that  an  attempt  to  meet  with  the  three  Ministers involved,  with  relevant  officers  present,  remained  ongoing.  The Committee  reiterated  the  importance  of  Scrutiny  undertaking  a cross-cutting review into this, however, noted that in order to be

able to organise itself it needed to be appraised of the progress and the timelines of the Executive. It was agreed that the President would  discuss  the  matter  with  the  Chief  Minister  at  their  next regular meeting.

TO

24.04.12 Item 16

510/3(5)

4. Newsletter – edition 11

The Committee agreed to circulate Edition 11 of the Newsletter in Spring 2013. In view of a possible price increase after that time it agreed to review whether to circulate a further autumn edition at a later date.

KTF

510/3(9)

5. Social Networking

The Committee noted that the Scrutiny Office had attempted to operate a Facebook site for a period of time in previous years. Due to a wide number of administrative complications and reasons this had been disbanded. However, the possibility of using Twitter was considered as a possible alternative. Whilst recognising that this could  be  managed  within  the  office  from  the  point  of  view  of circulating information on factual matters such as Scrutiny Public Hearings and press releases, it was noted that any comments of a political nature would need to be referred back to the relevant Panels. The establishment of a Twitter site would be investigated.

KTF

18.12.12 Item 7

510/3(2)

6.  Citizenship Programme

The Committee was advised that two schools [Les Quennevais and Le Rocquier] had initially agreed to take part in this project. This was perhaps beneficial given the large number of new Scrutiny Members who had not previously been involved in this programme and  the  demand  the  programme  required  on  Member  time. Confirmation from these schools was currently being sought as were possible timings.

 The Committee considered topic selection and agreed that this should rest with the educationalists with the input of Scrutiny to ascertain if a live topic would be feasible.

KTF

510/1(69)

7.  Intervention of Scrutiny into executive work: timing

The Committee considered the outcome of the meeting between itself and the Council of Ministers on 9th January 2013 in respect of the timing of intervention of Scrutiny into Executive matters. It was felt that the meeting had shown a divide between the Ministers and Scrutiny  with  no  subscription  to  inclusivity  on  the  part  of  the Ministers.  The  Committee  considered  requesting  H.M  Attorney General to opine on Standing Order 136(a) in respect  of what constituted a review, what constituted a matter of public interest and equally what the role of Scrutiny was in the existing Machinery of Government. However, after considerable debate, it was agreed that it was not necessary to involve H.M. Attorney General and no contact would be made.

It  was  considered  that  as  all  matters  involved  public  money, everything should be available for Scrutiny. All Business Cases across the Executive should be signed off by Ministers, therefore should be considered as policy and should be subject to Scrutiny if Scrutiny so chose.

It was also noted that the PAC would not be bringing in Accounting Officers  on  every  matter  as  had  been  suggested  at  the  joint meeting, as it had its own full and important work programme.

It was agreed that this matter would be further considered by the

President at her forthcoming meeting with the Chief Minister.

510/1(80)

8.  Ministerial Oversight Boards

It was agreed that the President should request the Chief Minister

for  a  list  of  all  Ministerial  Oversight  Boards/Political  Oversight Groups which included the membership of each Board, who served on each and information about the remit of each.

9. Panel Activity Reports

The Committee noted the Panel Activity Reports.

10.10.12 Item 1

510/1(61)

10. Ministerial  responses:  follow-up  on  accepted recommendations

A brief discussion was held on this matter but it was agreed to hold it  over  to  the  next  meeting  when  time  would  be  set  aside  to dedicate to this.

13.11.12 Item 13

510/1(70)

11. Scrutiny Members meeting

The Committee noted that this was scheduled for 20th February 2013.  Consideration  was  given  to  the  benefit,  or  otherwise,  of holding meetings over a States lunchtime recess. The Committee agreed to invite all Scrutiny Members if there were any items they wished to discuss at the meeting. The Committee considered the date  of  the  debate  on  the  Electoral  Commission  proposition  in respect of a forthcoming referendum which was 19th February and deliberated whether an open discussion on reform, Machinery of Government Reform issues would be timely. It was agreed that it would be put down as an initial agenda item which if it became inappropriate, could be removed closer to the time.

Consideration was given to inviting Members who were co-opted to Scrutiny Panels or who sat on Sub-Panels. The Committee was advised that in previous years it had been decided that, as such Members were not appointed to Scrutiny by the States and their rôle was purely review-specific, they should not be invited to attend Scrutiny gatherings of this nature.

18.12.12 Item 13

1240/25(7)

12. Annual Report 2012

The draft was considered and approved. Some discussion took place in respect of progress to be made during 2013 & the use of success criteria for the 2013 Annual Report.

12.12.11 Item 8

510/1(63)

13. Statement of Common Purpose

It was agreed that the Statement of Intent remained an essential document for all involved in Scrutiny to sign up to, be that as a full Panel or Public Accounts Committee Member appointed by the States, a co-opted Member or a Member sitting on a Sub-Panel. It was  agreed  that,  on  any  occasion  a  new  Member  was  either appointed to a Panel by the States, was co-opted onto a main Scrutiny Panel or was to sit on a Sub-Panel for a specific review, they should be forwarded the Statement of Intent. The relevant

Chair

Chairman  would  be  responsible  for  carrying  this  out.  The Committee  also  agreed  that,  in  the  event  that  the  Code  was breached by a Member, the Chairman should take the necessary action and advise the Chairmen's Committee of the circumstances.

On a related matter, it was agreed that the Terms of Reference for Scrutiny Panels and PAC would be included on the Statement. The revised Statement would be circulated to all Members by way of a reminder.

men

KTF

18.12.12 Item 15

1443(1)

14. Comptroller and Auditor General [C&AG]: update

It was anticipated that the proposition to appoint the next C&AG would be adopted by the States on 29th January. In the event that this  was  successful,  the  incumbent  was  due  to  undertake  an induction visit to Jersey on 5th-7th February.

512/19

15. Grants and Subsidies Review: Public Accounts Committee The Committee noted a Scoping document for the above review.

513/37(2)

16. Starter Homes Deposit Loan Scheme: Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel

The Committee noted a Scoping document for the above review.

515/26

17. Innovation Fund Review: Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel The Committee noted a Scoping document for the above review.

510/1(35)

18. Staffing

 The Committee was apprised of the current staffing situation in

relation to Scrutiny Officers which has now reached its maximum permitted headcount.

514/1(34)

19. Conflict of Interest

The Committee considered the matter of a perceived conflict of interest on the part of the Environment Scrutiny Panel Chairman in respect of scrutinising Planning matters. The Committee noted that the Chairman had left his previous rôle as Chief Officer of the Planning and Environment Department in 2004, some 8 years ago and considered that this was sufficient time to have overcome the majority  of  conflicts  of  interest.  However,  the  Chairman  was advised to take certain precautions if the Environment Scrutiny Panel  were  to  review  planning  matters,  namely,  appoint  an independent adviser, always have a Scrutiny Officer present at all meetings to provide the independent, impartial and objective note- taking rôle and to avoid contact with officers with whom he had previously worked.

The Committee noted that the Chief Minister had indicated that he would be undertaking his own review into planning matters and in light of this it was agreed that the Panel should avoid duplication but determine its terms of reference to shape a review around that being undertaken by the Chief Minister.

The President undertook to discuss this at the forthcoming meeting with the Chief Minister.

20. Future meetings

1. All  Scrutiny  Members  meeting:  22nd  February  2013, 1.00pm – 2.00pm, Blampied Room

2. Chairmen's  Committee:  26th  February  2013,  9.30am- 11.30am, Le Capelain Room.