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Public Accounts Committee - Approved Committee Minutes - 18 March 2013

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Public Accounts Committee

Record of Meeting

Date:   18th March 2013

Meeting No:  24

 

Present

Deputy T. Vallois, Chairman Senator S. C. Ferguson, Deputy R. Rondel

Deputy G. Baudains

Mr J Mills

Apologies

Mr I. Ridgway

In attendance

Mr M. Robbins, Officer to Public Accounts Committee.

 

Ref Back

Agenda matter

Action

Item 1 04.02.13

1.  Records of Meetings

The records of the meetings held on 4th, 11th, 12th and 22nd February 2013 were approved and signed.

 

Item 2 04.02.13

2.  Previous PAC Recommendations

A  document  containing  every  Public  Accounts  Committee recommendation  between  2007  and  2013  was  received  by  the Committee. It was the intention of the Chairman to follow up some of the recommendations with the Chief Minister during a meeting which was  to  be  held  during  the  afternoon  of  the  18th  March  2013.  The recommendations were to be considered by the members in time for the next meeting.

TV / MR

 

3.  Conflicts of Interest

Deputy Rondel declared a conflict of interest in the area of grants as he was in receipt of a rural grant due to the nature of his business. It was agreed that were the rural grants to be discussed he would retire from any such proceedings.

 

 

4.  Third Westminster Workshop on PAC

The Committee heard that three names had been submitted to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association in application for places at a workshop in London relating to Public Account Committees throughout the Commonwealth. As it had been heavily oversubscribed, only one place had been accepted from the Jersey Committee. It was decided that the Chairman would be the most appropriate representative to attend.

TV

 

5.  Car Park Trading Fund

The Chairman raised the topic of service charges made to the public

 

 

and after discussion, the Committee decided that it had a particular interest  in  the  Car  Park  Trading  Fund.  It  was  aware  that  money collected from parking charges was held in a ring-fenced account, the Car Park Trading Account, but that money was being used from that account on a regular basis for matters not directly connected with car parks.

The Committee decided to have some background work done on this subject to establish if there were sufficient concern for a review into the subject. It was stated that the use of funds intended for maintenance of Car Parks for other projects was a stealth tax and was not transparent.

Consideration of more details about this were to be considered at the next meeting.

MR

 

6.  Back to Work Programme

The Committee considered the Back to Work Programme' which was created within the Economic Stimulus Package and therefore subject to the '3Ts', being Timely, Temporary and Targeted. As this programme was still in operation two and a half years later, it seemed it may not have been subject to the 3Ts.

The Committee was in agreement that there may be value in examining the Economic Stimulus Package to establish if it were value for money. It was decided that this was a suitable subject for the future and there was value in discussing the project with the Comptroller and Auditor General later in the year.

MR

 

7.  Sixth Form Education

The Committee discussed examination of the corporate governance in sixth form education. As highlighted within the Financial Report and Accounts report (PAC 1/2013), sixth-formers were moving from school to school with duplication of curriculum in many cases.

It was recognised that this may be a symptom of a deeper problem and it was worth trying to establish the cause of the symptoms. It was agreed that this was an area that was worth future discussion with the Comptroller and Auditor General as she became more informed of the circumstances surrounding such issues.

 

 

8.  Health Consultants

The Committee received information relating to concerns over the value for  money  provided  by  consultants  working  within  the  Health Department. The Committee agreed that there was concern over the amount  of  time  that  consultants  were  providing  for  their  role  as employed consultants for the States of Jersey, compared to the amount of  time  invested  in  their  private  practice.  The  Committee  elected Senator Ferguson to act as lead member and it was agreed that she would liaise with the officer to provide some background information about the subject.

SF / MR

Item 3 18.06.12

9.  Public Finance (Jersey) Law 2005 Amendments

The Committee considered an invitation from the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel to consider the suggested amendments to the Public Finances  (Jersey)  Law  2005  which  were  being  proposed  by  the Treasurer of the States. Whilst the Scrutiny Panel recognised that the

 

 

proposed amendments to the Law were beyond the remit of the PAC, being that they were proposed future legislation changes, they invited the Committee to consider:

  1. to examine the recommendations from the Treasury to establish if, in their view,
  • there are any areas of concern from the viewpoint of the PAC.
  • there  is  anything  controversial  contained  within  the proposals
  • whether PAC would recommend that CSP should review the amendments and
  1. to advise the CSP of their considerations.

The Committee discussed each of the articles contained within the amendments and found concerns with the following areas:

  • The proposed changes were based on recommendations within a  report  by  the  Comptroller  and  Auditor  General  "Public Finances  (Jersey)  Law  2005   A  review  in  the  light  of experience",  however,  the  amendments  contained  other changes as well.
  • Article 9.-
  • Article 14.  
  • Article 15,
  • The PAC had requested the briefing notes to the law draftsman and the minutes relating to the changes at relevant meetings. There were none. None of the briefings with the lawdraftsman had a record. An audit trail from 2007 needed to be done to establish the reasoning behind the amendments.
  • There was no clear necessity for the amendments.
  • Article 56A
  • Article 56C

A letter containing the considerations of the Committee was to be sent to the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel.

MR

 

10. Lunches for States Members

The Committee recalled that following the approval in the States of an amendment to the 2010 business plan, lunches for States Members and  Scrutiny  Members  had  been  stopped.  It  was  noted  that  the Committee was a particular victim of these cuts as due to having a membership  made  up  of  both  States  members  and  independent members, it was most convenient to hold its meetings over the lunch period.

Since the imposition of the ban on lunches, a light sandwich lunch had been  provided  at  personal  cost  to  the  States  Members  on  the Committee.  The  Committee  agreed  that  as  this  was  strictly  States business,  it  was  unreasonable  to  expect  the  light  lunches  to  be purchased by the States Members. It noted that the ban on lunches did not  extend  to  the  executive  and  whenever  Members  had  attended meetings of the Ministers over a lunch period, it was usual for a light sandwich lunch to be provided.

 

 

The Committee wished to record that it considered it was reasonable for a light sandwich lunch to be provided for the Committee when it was working over a lunch period.

MR

Item 6 04.02.13

11. Procurement

It was noted that the closing date for public submissions was 18th March 2013. The Chairman, as lead member, was to examine the submissions with the officer and report back to the Committee at its next meeting.

TV / MR

Item 2 22.02.13

12. Canbedone Productions Limited Grant

The Committee reviewed the work undertaken to date and considered the public hearing held on 11th February 2013 with the Chief Officer of

the Economic Development Department. It recognised that the review had been the subject of various articles within the Jersey Evening Post. The subject was of particular interest to Islanders.

Correspondence  had  been  sent  to  the  Chairman  of  the  Tourism Development Fund and a reply received, stating that no application was received from Canbedone or on their behalf either for a grant or to discuss a grant.

The Committee received a draft of the report which was discussed. The Committee was content with the progress and members would consider the draft and inform the officer of any further amendments. Drafting was to continue.

RR / MR

Item 9 04.02.13

13. Financial Report and Accounts 2011

The  Committee  noted  that  its  report  on  the  Financial  Report  and Accounts 2011 had been published on 1st March 2013 and it looked

forward to the response from the departments at the appropriate time.

MR

Item 1 22.02.13

14. Grants and Subsidies

A  briefing  on  22nd  February  2013  from  Economic  Development Department  officers  was  well  received  by  the  Committee  and  had proved useful in assisting understanding of a complicated process.

The Lead Member reported on a meeting with the Education, Sport and Culture officers. It was recognised that there were some concerns with grants becoming smaller over time but similar resources being required to administer them.  

The  Committee  agreed  that  the  lead  Member  was  to  progress  the review by meeting with the officer.

JM / MR

 

15. Briefing from Comptroller and Auditor General

The  Comptroller  and  Auditor  General  gave  a  presentation  to  the Committee outlining how she intended to structure the new office.

 

 

16. Future Meeting

The Committee agreed that the next scheduled meeting was to be at

12.30 pm on Monday 15th April 2013 in the Blampied Room of the States Buildings.

MR