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STATES OF JERSEY
Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel Quarterly Meeting
MONDAY, 19th DECEMBER 2016
Panel:
Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier (Chairman) Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour
Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. John
Witnesses:
The Minister for Home Affairs
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs
Chief Officer
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police
Director, Committee of Constitutional Affairs
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs
[14:02]
Deputy S.Y. Mézec (Chairman):
Minister, Assistant Minister and officers and members of the public and media. If everybody could just check that their mobile phones are turned off or put on silent. If you would just confirm that you have read the statement in front of you, which I am sure you have read a thousand times.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, not a thousand times but, yes, I have read it, thank you.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Indeed. Okay, I think we will go through and introduce ourselves just for the benefit of the recording. I am Deputy Sam Mézec of St. Helier No. 2.
Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour :
Yes, good afternoon. Season's greetings. Deputy Jeremy Maçon, Parish of St. Saviour , District Petite Longueville.
Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. John : Deputy Tracey Vallois, St. John .
Scrutiny Officer:
Mick Robbins, the Scrutiny Officer.
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
Good afternoon, Stewart Gull. I am Head of Crime Services with the States of Jersey Police.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Deputy Kristina Moore , Minister for Home Affairs.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Deidre Mezbourian , Constable of St. Lawrence and Assistant Minister for Home Affairs.
Chief Officer:
Tom Walker , Chief Officer.
Director, Committee of Constitutional Affairs:
Andrew Metcalfe, Director, Committee of Constitutional Affairs.
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service:
Steven Le Marquand, Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service.
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
Helen Miles , Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay, are we ready to begin? We have re-ordered our questions bearing in mind that they have got people who want to deal with those early on. The first question is just simply to ask you for an update on what progress has been made with the Sexual Offences Law.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Good progress is being made. It is a complex piece of legislation but it is now ready for the law drafting process and we look forward to going to consultation towards the middle of next year.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
When do you think it will be ready to be brought to the States?
The Minister for Home Affairs: Towards the end of 2017.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay, and has everything so far been on time; no hiccups along the way?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
No, there do not appear to have been any hiccups at all. It has been a lengthy process but if you could see the ring binders that have been provided and scrutinised by the various people along the way then it is quite a complex piece of work that is involved, taking comparisons against other similar legislation in different jurisdictions.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay. Is there anything else to update on that that we might not be aware of?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I think we have managed to keep the scrutiny panel as briefed as we can. We do have a summary of proposals that we can share with you in confidence if you would like to do it.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Yes, that sounds like a good idea. Anything else on this?
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Yes. Can I just ask, you said it is ready to go out to consultation? Can I just ask what form will that consultation take?
Director, Committee of Constitutional Affairs:
The law has yet to be drafted so it will be a consultation and piece of legislation and there will be a public consultation on that piece of legislation.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
So we are looking at a White Paper then?
Director, Committee of Constitutional Affairs: White Paper, yes.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Okay, thank you.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay. So move on to the next area which is Deputy Maçon.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Which new number is that?
Deputy S.Y. Mézec : It was 7.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Okay, thank you. Yes, I have been gifted this lovely question. Looking at the issue of [Interruption] looking at cannabis and we have had the issue of using cannabis for medical reasons but I wonder if you could tell us from the department's point of view what is the demand on the resources of the department when dealing with small amounts or personal possession of cannabis?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
All right, okay. As you have correctly understood, our remit it falls into the enforcement side. It is very fortunate we have got Superintendent Gull here who may be able to give you some information because that is quite a controversial area.
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
Thank you, Minister. Small amounts of cannabis are able to ... if we establish that they are for an individual's personal use clearly still are ... our law here is such that it is against the law. It is a prescribed substance and ordinarily I think small amounts would be dealt with at Parish Hall , certainly on a first occasion, but that would be very much in consultation with the centenier for the relevant parish who would determine the criminal justice process. But generally small amounts on a first occasion will be Parish Hall I am sure.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Okay. But can you just quantify, for example, how many hours go into kind of dealing with those types of cases just so we have an idea? If you are unable to tell us today ...
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
Not a particularly complex ... it would be, sort of professional judgment, but probably somewhere in the region of perhaps 4 hours of an officer's time I would think; somewhere around that. Somewhere in that region, dealing with the individual, dealing with the paperwork, engaging with the centenier and seeing it through to conclusion. Yes, somewhere in the region of 4 hours I suspect.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Is that per incident?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police: It is, yes.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
So therefore how many incidents, say, on an annual basis do you have?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
Right. Well, I have got some figures from this year and this is purely for cannabis related offences and year-to-date we have dealt with 150 individuals purely for simple possession and 8 individuals have been dealt with for possession with intent to supply. Those latter cases were 8 and they would have, I am sure, have proceeded through the court system. So that is 158 cases of cannabis in total this year to date, 150 of which were dealt with for simple possession. That is against a backdrop of a total of 253 drug offences this year so you can see the vast majority of those were for simple cannabis.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
I think you said 150 individuals, is that individual instances or are some of them people who perhaps have been caught doing something several times?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
I do not have that breakdown. I suspect the vast majority are ... we are talking about individual incidents. It is conceivable that we may have dealt with an individual on more than one occasion but again my sense is they are individual incidents and individuals.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
This year compared to previous years, is this, in your judgment, becoming something that you are finding more and more of or is it steady throughout the years?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
I did just look at the headline figures for drugs overall and clearly it is helpful that a director from law enforcement, Steve Le Marquand, is here this year as well in terms of the importation but certainly drug offences that the States of Jersey Police have seen this year; we have seen an increase overall. The increase is about just a little over 50 per cent, an additional 86 offences this year in comparison with last year but, of course, unlike other areas of criminality that are reported to us drug offences are not ... generally drug offences are not reported to us and we go looking for drug offences or offenders based on intelligence. The majority of our offences and offenders are investigations that are police led based on intelligence and I know that is the same with our scheme, customs and immigration. I hope I have explained that well. That may have been a bit clumsy but it is not like you are a victim of burglary or perhaps shoplifting that are reported to us. You will understand drug offences is a slightly different context and our recorded offences will have been purely as a result of proactive police action based on intelligence.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Would you, therefore, say that the higher numbers are down to better intelligence or because of higher numbers of usage or a combination?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
You would expect me to say the former, would you not, and I think that is right? It is difficult to say whether it is on the increase. I policed in a number of other jurisdictions in England and in terms of the profile of our community my experience here, I have served here now for a little over 5 years, there is no difference to any other jurisdiction in Western Europe. My judgment here is that drug use is no different to any other part of, certainly, the U.K. (United Kingdom).
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Perhaps if I can help. If you look at the comparison of custom seizures in recent years this year has been a very successful year in terms of seizures, £2.5 million worth of cannabis has been seized so far. When you compare it to last year it was £1.6 million. So that might indicate why there could be a slightly higher level of usage being seen in the street and leading to police involvement.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Can we just ask what priority you, as Minister, give to drug related crime enforcement?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, it is not ... it is really an operational part of policing work and not something that I have any remit to dictate to the police force ...
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
But you do agree their business plan.
The Minister for Home Affairs: Well, I do, yes.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
You can, therefore, set priorities through negotiation.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, yes but it is proactive and proactive policing crime is an important part of police work.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
So within that process can you explain for the panel what priority you gave to drug enforcement?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, it is an important area of crime and policing strategy. It is something that is a continual challenge to the police force and one that I expect them to carry out.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Okay, thank you. I just wonder from a Custom's point of view is there anything you would like to add?
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service:
Yes. I would say that regarding priorities Customs and Immigration Service has 3 main custom priorities and that is the control of class B drugs, class A drugs and class C drugs. All those things are seen as the highest priority. We have a number of areas to cover; you have got the seizure of cash, you have got tobacco smuggling, all those sort of things, but class A, class B and class C would all be given a higher priority than tobacco and cash, et cetera. So, as the Minister has alluded to, the seizure of cannabis this year has gone up compared to previous years and we seized 136 kilos of cannabis this year compared to 55 kilos last year. I think there has been a move back to cannabis following 2014 when a lot of importations were taking place through the post and that was the N.P.S. (new psychoactive substances) importations that were taking place then and some of the younger members of our community were trying those sort of drugs. Cannabis ...
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Forgive my ignorance, N.P.S.?
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service: That is the new psychoactive substances.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Okay, thank you.
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service: So what they originally called legal highs.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Yes, okay.
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service:
If you go back to 2014 and look at our seizures, in 2014 we only seized 2 kilos of cannabis but that is when N.P.S. was at its height. I think with the amount of work that people like police, ourselves, prison, in a way the various publicity that there has been in relation to some of the deaths that have taken place because of N.P.S. use I think people have moved back from the N.P.S. use and gone back to more traditional drug use and cannabis resin is obviously one of those.
[14:15]
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Thank you. Can I ask both your services respectively, would the legalisation of cannabis for medicinal use cause problems at an enforcement level?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
That is not a question that I feel that I can answer. We are a law enforcement agency. The law is such that we currently enforce the law and clearly any debate on legalisation of cannabis is a ministerial and a States issue.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
I would have thought impact on officer time would be something you could have commented on.
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
Well, I could do but I feel it would be inappropriate to. Clearly, the community expects its law enforcement agency to uphold the law and to remain sort of independent and objective and we are here to enforce the law and it is not a position that I feel I can comment on in terms of legalisation.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
It is an interesting stance but please do not think for a moment the panel is encouraging you to divert from that for a moment.
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
If I may, just following up on the Minister's response in to your question, if this is a priority for us. Yes, it is. Any form of criminality that causes harm to our community is clearly a priority for us. We know from decades of research the damage that harmful substances does and consequently I think that is reflected in our increase, like our colleagues from Customs and Immigration this year, an increase in seizures and an increase in law enforcement at the other end of the spectrum. We had a 51 per cent increase this year so I think that demonstrates to the panel the importance that we place on drug enforcement.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Deputy , do you mind, when you asked your question just now I was not sure if you were trying to establish from Stewart, whether or not when people are arrested in possession of cannabis whether they claim it is for medicinal purposes and whether you were trying to establish how often that is done and whether there are any numbers that the police have for it?
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
I am sure that would be helpful.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: Because I am not sure if they do have.
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
No, this is from memory and I know it has been subject to a Freedom of Information Law request, I think this year, and from memory I think we have dealt with just one or two cases during the last couple of years where individuals have claimed that they have been in possession for medicinal purposes. It is very low, one or 2 cases.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Could I ask about the 1001 Days Initiative and where you are at the moment with that?
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Wait a minute, no, I think we are going on to question 11 before the (2:18:19 overspeaking)
The Deputy of St. John :
Sorry, we had to move everything around.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
You have got advance notice now of what is after that.
The Deputy of St. John :
With regards to everything that has happened in terms of the Customs and Immigration particularly in terms of the dog types that has happened, can I ask, Minister, whether there is any intention from yourself or your office to bring forward changes to the legislation next year or whether you believe now, looking at this particular case, the legislation is sufficient and appropriate for the safety of our community?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Are you talking about introducing Potentially Dangerous Dogs Law?
The Deputy of St. John :
Well, we had changes made last year but in particular in this case, where we have got types, there has just recently been a recommendation in the London Assembly to change the legislation that they have with regards to dog types. So I am following what has been experienced this year with a particular case in the local news and we have seen happening, whether there is any intention on your part, within your ministerial responsibilities, with determining changes to the legislation next year?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
I know there has been discussion but Steve is well placed to respond.
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service:
Yes. I mean the dog types that are currently on the Open General Import Licence they have been there for a number of years and they were put there at the request of what was then the Agriculture and Fisheries Department, which has now obviously been incorporated into Environment. So it is not Customs that decides what goes on the Open General Import Licence. We generally get requests from other departments and say, "Look, we would like this to be controlled. Can you put that on the licence?" and that request would be made to the Minister and the head of service and if the Minister and the head of service thinks it is appropriate then things can be added to the licence in the same way that they can be deleted from the licence. Because if you take, for example, like drugs; so at the moment there is new types of drugs that are coming on to the market and as and when these new drugs come on to the market they are added to the Open General Import Licence at the request of the Minister for Health. As and when those drugs appear on the Misuse of Drugs Schedule they are then removed from the import licence. So in relation to the dog issue if there was a change in the U.K. legislation where they varied the type of dog or they put a different type of dog that needed to be controlled then the Department of Environment could make an approach to the Minister for Home Affairs and say: "We think these animals should be added and the other ones should be taken off" and that can be done accordingly and in very quick time.
The Deputy of St. John :
So the determination as to whether that is on that import licence or not lays with the Department of Environment?
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service: In relation to dogs, yes.
The Deputy of St. John :
Right, okay. I just wanted to make that clear. So the Dogs Law, as it currently stands, sits under who?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
No, it is the Department for the Environment. I believe they recently updated the law last year, was it not ...
Chief Officer:
That was environment, was it?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes. Under that law Constables are responsible for ensuring collection of stray dogs.
Chief Officer:
I can check for you but I have got a feeling in the back of my mind that that law was updated by the Legislation Advisory Panel.
Male Speaker:
I did not think it was Environment, I must admit.
The Deputy of St. John :
Yes. Well, I know we made an amendment in the States last December and I believe it was brought by the Chief Minister but I am not sure where everything sits these days,
Chief Officer:
But it would only have been the Chief Minister if it was the Legislation Advisory Panel because the Chief Minister is responsible for the panel so probably Senator Bailhache was probably the rapporteur as chair of L.A.P. (Legislation Advisory Panel). I think it was probably lodged by the Chief Minister.
The Deputy of St. John :
Okay. So in terms of the legislation that has been changed I am just trying to get my understanding right in terms of the legislation that stands in place at the moment across varying ministerial responsibilities. The determining decision with relation to the specific case that we all are aware about lies currently with yourselves because of the licence or is it because of the Dogs Law or is it ...
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
No, it is because the dog was seized on the ... well, the dog was seized and it was forfeited by the court because the type was determined to be of a type that was not permitted to be within the Island. It was on the list ...
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service: It was contrary to the licence.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
... of dogs that would not be permitted to enter. So following the decision by the court that it was of that type it became forfeited goods and therefore it falls to the J.C.I.S. (Jersey Customs & Immigration Service) to be responsible for the decision as to what happens to the dog but under the law forfeited goods may be returned so that is why the decision on whether or not the dog may be returned has fallen to me because the dog has been forfeited under the Customs ...
The Deputy of St. John :
Okay. It has been classed under good and services.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: Yes.
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service:
The dog has been seized as it is contrary to the Open General Import Licence. So dogs of Pitbull type are restricted. Importation is restricted without a licence so it is the licence that controls the import and export of those animals. So, as the Assistant Minister says, under the ... and it is Article 19 of the Customs Law that allows the import/export licence to take effect. Okay? Now, under the Customs Law when something is seized by the court the Minister has the right to return forfeited goods in appropriate circumstances.
The Deputy of St. John :
Okay. That is fine. It is just to understand where it all sits because of course you have got all these different bits of legislation so I appreciate that.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: It is only because it is forfeited goods.
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service:
But the importance is it is not Customs that necessarily decides what goes on an import or export licence.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Given that very complicated process I wonder whether any reflection has happened or is the ministerial team happy with how all those processes go together or whether some improvements could be made.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, it is something that has happened. The animal was seized because it was thought to be of a type that is not permitted to be imported into the Island without a licence. That is why it was seized. Subsequently it was determined to be of type by the Petty Debts Courts so a court of law made that decision and cannot really ... so the process I think is correct. It is unfortunate because ordinarily seized items are inanimate so this is probably the first time that an animal has been seized ...
Director Law Enforcement, Customs and Immigration Service: Certainly in my time in service.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
... for many years. So the process, I think, works. We have a law. It is followed. It is enforced but it is generally for inanimate goods.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Okay, thank you.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Now it is asking about the 1001 Days Initiative and where you think you are at the moment, thank you.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Thank you. Well, it has been a busy and positive year for the 1001 Critical Days agenda in Jersey. The taskforce at the beginning of the year, or the end of last, set a 20 point action plan of which they have fulfilled nearly every point on that action plan. There has been a considerable amount of publicity in relation to the work that is being done in the area, and raising awareness generally with the population and particularly with professionals who work in the related environment. So I am very pleased with the positive progress that has been made.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
If you could list what you think are the most important, tangible improvements to public service provision that people would benefit from if they have a young child, changes that have been made over the past 2 years, what would they be?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, those changes are being introduced at the moment so, as I said, the 20 point action plan has generally been around improving processes, joining up services, seeing where the gaps lie so that we can fulfil new services. Going forward we are planning to introduce a universal antenatal service that would be of access to all parents, which it currently is not. Also baby friendly initiatives, which Dr. Helen Miles can talk about at much greater length and in greater detail than I can. So those are the 2 key points that will be universally available for parents.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
But the examples you have given there have not been introduced yet. I am asking in the past 2 years in terms of the quality of public service provision, if you are somebody here and now who has a child within that 1001 days and you would want an improved service in line with the ethos of what this stands for, in the past 2 years what actual tangible improvements to that provision have been made.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Sorry, I would just like to say, as I outlined in my first answer, that this is an initiative that was announced by the Chief Minister at the beginning of the year and there has been a great deal of work in terms of the gap analysis and the approach that I have outlined already. Therefore, the piece of work has not been about introducing services over the past 2 years. It has been since January this year, looking forward, and as I outlined it is about opening up new services for the public from next year. But Dr. Miles can give you more detail.
[14:30]
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
I think it is safe to say that we have not rested on our laurels here, I mean we have picked up the 1001 Agenda and rather than kind of do a piece of research work and then wait until the end of that research work and implement the recommendations, what we have done is really a little bit of action research. So your question about what would feel different for a pregnant woman, for example, they would certainly experience more of a streamlined service than they had before. We have not got midwifery services in all G.P. (General Practitioner) surgeries so the antenatal clinic at the hospital is only for high risk pregnancies that would need to see the consultants. There are various programmes that have been introduced by the P.82 money, and one of those is called the M.E.C.S.H. (Maternal Early Childhood Sustained Home-Visiting) programme which is delivered by Family Nursing & Home Care, which is delivering superlative service to over 150 families. The M.E.C.S.H. team from Jersey have just been down in Australia to talk about the positive changes that we have made in Jersey over the last 2 years when it comes to sort of perinatal work. We have certainly looked at data systems and people are now sharing data so, for example, health visitors can access the maternity system which is something you would take for granted but was not happening before. But I think for me, who has led the taskforce, the biggest piece of work is to bring people together and get them talking and put babies and children at the centre of the process and see how we can all work together to provide a better service.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Can I just ask, you commented there about bringing services into the G.P. aspect of it? Are those services paid for?
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
What has happened with maternity, they are paid for but you can select a maternity package. So whereas previously you would be paying your £40 for every single visit I think at the moment it is about £150 and what that does, it covers all your G.P. visits, all your midwifery visits, but it centres it around your G.P. practice. So, for example, if you were feeling under the weather and you needed to go to the G.P. that would be covered within the package that you purchased.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
What analysis has been done about ... presumably 1001 Days, while it is targeted at everyone, it particularly wants to get and reach vulnerable people. I would imagine costs might be a barrier. Has there been any analysis around that?
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
We have done quite a lot of analysis, particularly around universal antenatal, because at the moment one of the key tenets about the 1001 is about promoting bonding and attachment. That is not just bonding and attachment with the mother, that is with the principal caregiver, potentially fathers. What is certainly lacking is a universal antenatal preparation programme. So if you want to do any antenatal you would either go through the National Childbirth Trust, which is not for everybody, or you will pay for aquanatal or you will need to pay for hypnobirthing. Part of the research we have done is that people who have had that kind of level of intervention are having better birth outcomes so, for example, fewer caesarean sections and shorter labours. So for people who are not able to afford or do not want to access that system we needed rapidly to put something else in place which is why we are looking at the universal antenatal programme, which is going to be based on current N.S.P.C.C. (National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children) Baby Steps, which is another initiative funded locally by the N.S.P.C.C. which at the moment is just targeted at vulnerable families. That is going to be rolled out across the board.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Forgive me, I am a man and I always tremble when I have to ask these types of questions to do with labour and maternity ...
Female Speaker:
Try giving birth. [Laughter]
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Thankfully that is not something I will have to do. But, again, it is that access, so when the universal programme is rolled out, as an individual, how much will that cost me?
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs: It will not, it will be free.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Free?
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
Yes, the universal service will be free. What we would be looking at doing next year is piloting it in different settings, because at the moment there is a universal intervention which is just a couple of hours, 2 2-hour sessions at The Bridge. But that focuses very much on the mechanics of labour and childbirth, not about the emotional impact of having children and what that will bring to your family. That will be free, hence the universal.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Thank you.
The Deputy of St. John :
Correct me if I am wrong, Minister, but I believe there was an extra £1.65 million in the M.T.F.P. (Medium Term Financial Plan) which currently sits in the contingency, and of course with 2017 literally around the corner what are the thoughts or the priorities at the moment that you see that funding being used for, for next year?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, as we have just outlined, the universal antenatal programme will be funded from that sum, along with the Baby Friendly Initiative ...
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs: Baby Friendly Initiative, yes.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
... which is a U.N.I.C.E.F. (United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund) programme. Also we aim to introduce a perinatal parent/infant partnership for Jersey which is about perinatal maternal mental health care, which is to assist people who need help with the bonding and attachment that is so crucial and the centrepiece of the 1001 Critical Days Agenda.
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
I have got with me, which I will leave with the officer, some of the manifestos, but some of the mapping that we have done and what the parent/infant partnership will look like provisionally.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
You just said that bonding is the centrepiece of the 1001 Days Manifesto, and I know that ultimately this is something that would fall under the responsibility of the Minister for Social Security, but there is a clear connection to 1001 Days and that is maternity leave. Are you putting pressure to have provisions for maternity leave improved in Jersey, given that we are lagging very significantly behind the rest of the developed world on this?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
While I cannot speak for another Minister here, I am aware that the Social Security Department are listening very closely to the views held by many people in relation to the maternity situation. I hope that within the next year there should be some positive news from that department. I think that is all I can really say. It is something that I have discussed with the Minister on many occasions and the Minister is fully aware ...
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Many formal occasions or ...
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, apart from the around the Council of Ministers table, and we sit obviously on C.A.V.A. (Children and Vulnerable Adults) group which is where any initiatives in relation to 1001 Days would come at a ministerial level. So we have discussed the general issues around those tables.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
So in minuted meetings there will be a note somewhere saying that this has been brought up and is something that you would consider to be in line with the principles behind 1001 Days?
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
One of the actions on the action plan was to inform the review of statutory and parental leave and pay, because it only started in September 2015. So I think we spoke to somebody very recently and I think in the New Year the States Employment Board is going to be launching the review of the statutory parental leave. Evidently, the research that we have done will be informing that.
The Deputy of St. John :
Can I just ask, as I understand Social Security have been working on, I am assuming they are still working on, family friendly legislation. Forgive me if I got that wrong, but what input do you have specifically from 1001 Days, I mean, is there regular input there or is it just at the C.A.V.A. meetings or ministerial meetings?
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
Somebody from Social Security sits on the 1001 Critical Days taskforce. That is very necessary because it is not just about maternity leave and pay, you are looking at income support benefit and the like there as well.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Is there anything else on the 1001 Days Agenda you would like to make the panel aware of?
Policy Director, Community and Constitutional Affairs:
I could sit here and talk for hours. Just a very quick one. As the Minister said, one of our priorities is the accreditation under U.N.I.C.E.F. Baby Friendly, and that is a really kind of critical part of improving services for families. What it does is really promote breastfeeding for the first 6 months of a child's life, and part of the £1.65 million will be used to prime that before 2018. So we have seen some very positive changes there.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Thank you. Deputy Vallois?
The Deputy of St. John :
Minister, with regards to the recent seminars and publicity surrounding violence against women and girls, could you advise what you are currently doing in relation to that specific area, whether it is in regards to policy or legislation or whether there are any tangible things that changed recently that people can see for themselves?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Absolutely. Well the Sexual Offences legislation is a key part of this work because once we hopefully have the Assembly's approval of the Sexual Offences legislation, of course that will not be until the end of next year, we will be a long way towards reaching the Istanbul Convention and being able to give signatory to that, which is quite timely, I guess, as a topic for conversation. Also more recently you will recall that along with the Telecommunications Law we also agreed to Crime (Disorderly Conduct and Harassment) to extending the powers of restraining orders, which is something that is very beneficial for victims of crimes against a person, particularly of these sensitive and intimate nature.
The Deputy of St. John :
Okay, so basically at the moment we are focussing on legislation as the primary setup and then to follow through with policies after that particular ...
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, no, not exactly.
The Deputy of St. John :
Do you have anything in place at the moment while we are working on the legislation to improve things?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Just last week C.A.V.A. approved the domestic abuse strategy which has been brought forward by the Safeguarding Partnership Board of which the Head of Crime Services is the deputy chair, so you can probably ask him some questions about that because he is very well placed to answer them. So that would be another piece.
The Deputy of St. John :
That was approved by C.A.V.A. last week?
The Minister for Home Affairs: C.A.V.A., yes.
The Deputy of St. John : Is it a public document?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
It will be, yes, it will be published on the Safeguarding Partnership Board website probably in January now.
The Deputy of St. John : Right, okay.
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
I have got a copy here and, as the Minister indicated, it was signed off by C.A.V.A. Thursday or Friday of last week. I guess it has 5 overarching objectives which include prevention, protection and risk reduction, prosecution and justice provision services, and integrated policies and partnership work. It is a 3-year strategy. It will be owned by a subgroup of the Safeguarding Partnership Board and I think periodically updates will be brought to C.A.V.A. ministers so that they can be kept apprised of practice. But the panel will be aware of me deliberately wearing my white ribbon today, and you will be familiar with this annual campaign now that we continue to promote in order to raise awareness, specifically in respect of domestic abuse but also sexual assaults. Again, with Ministers support, we plan to open our first Sexual Assault Referral Centre here, S.A.R.C., in quarter one of next year. This is in anticipation of it featuring in the recommendation of the Care Inquiry in quarter one of next year. We have already got some component parts to a S.A.R.C. here but we were keen to build on that and the funding that has been provided to us by the Council of Ministers will help us establish a fully operational S.A.R.C. which we are very pleased about. Fundamentally, what this will allow victims of sexual assault to do is to engage with services without the need to enter the criminal justice system. Currently generally that's the only way that they can receive necessary support and therapeutic help that they need so a Sexual Assault Referral Centre will build on existing services here and we are delighted to be able to commence that work in quarter one of next year.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
With the S.A.R.C. initiative can you just guarantee, following the proposition of Deputy Luce , that will not impact on any of the funding going to the Women's Refuge, because previously it would have?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
There is a separate funding stream that is funding S.A.R.C.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Thank you.
The Deputy of St. John :
Can I just ask with regards to the promotion and the awareness that has been made, particularly over the last couple of years with regards to domestic abuse, have you seen more people willing to come forward and attempt to address the situation, and more prevention models being put in place now than what maybe has happened before?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
We have seen an increase in reporting and I am under no doubt that it is as a result of the very high profile campaigns that we have seen in Jersey here in the last couple of years.
[14:45]
As the panel may be aware, we introduced M.A.R.A.C. (Multi Agency Risk Assessment Conference) processes here in January 2014 I think it was, which included the appointment of 2 full time I.D.V.A.s (Independent Domestic Violence Advisor). The Multi Agency Risk Assessment Conference brings together multiagency professionals on a monthly basis. There was one last Thursday, and they considered 17 high risk cases. We are continuing to see an increase in victims of domestic abuse and sexual violence coming forward and, for me, I think fundamentally that demonstrates trust and confidence in victims coming forward and engaging with services. We also introduced Clare's Law here 2 years ago which allows members of the community to ask, in a private way, open questions if they have got concerns about a partner or a neighbour. That mechanism, in appropriate circumstances, will allow us to make disclosures about an individual, should we have concerns.
The Deputy of St. John :
Have you had many requests under Clare's Law?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
We have. This year we have had 7 approaches from different parishes and we have been able to assess the request and make the necessary disclosure in respect of those concerns so, again, that is a very positive move.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Anything else? Okay, shall we move on then? What progress, if any, is being made on the Cyber Crime and Fraud Law?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes, so that is also ready for drafting and it is making good progress.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec : In terms of timetable?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I am just trying to work my way back to the right page. I would imagine that would also be ready for consultation in the middle of next year.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
To the States by the end of next year, do you anticipate that?
The Minister for Home Affairs: Yes, I would hope so, absolutely.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Exactly the same question I asked previously, has there been anything go wrong along the way or any hiccups that have complicated things or has it all gone smoothly?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I have not been aware of any hiccups, the civil service have been very professional as ever in undertaking their duties, yes.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
In terms of what you have so far, you mentioned with the Sexual Offences Law you were happy to go through stuff in confidence with us on that. Is that possible to do the same for this as well, if that is appropriate?
Chief Officer:
Yes, I will ask the expert officers to come and talk you through what they have developed so far and how they anticipate that working. It will probably be Dr. Miles , supported by colleagues from the police. I will get them to arrange a separate informal briefing for you, and they are happy to share all.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay, excellent, thank you. Anything else on that?
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
No, because the only concern I think for the panel would be a possible clash of timetabling if you have got 2 big bits of legislation coming from your department looking at sexual offences and this one as well, so the more the panel knows beforehand obviously the better.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Of course, yes. As the Chief Officer said, we will arrange the necessary ... it is important an area, cybercrime, of course, very important in current times and the legislation is all about reaching action fraud commitments. But we are also doing many other things in relation to policing the cyber world and you will remember the S.I.N.C.E.R.E. (Small Island Nations Centre of Excellence for Research and Education) project that we are working on with a number of other small island jurisdictions, which is a really successful operation. Because, of course, cybercrime is not something that happens specifically within the Island's boundaries and confines it; it is an international thing which requires joint working.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay, moving on to what is down as number 4.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Number 4, right, okay. Tell Us Once was a project started some time ago to ensure the public only had to advise the States once of change of details, such as marriage, et cetera. Can you update us on that project please?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, you are right, it comes under the eGovernment initiative which is led by the Chief Minister and I think directly by Deputy Wickenden. Since the middle of September 2015 it has been running for births Island-wide and it was then included for deaths as well. Births on an Island-wide basis have been registered on the populous system, which is the Social Security's people database and because of that it means that States departments have been automatically informed of a birth, this is through the registrars of the parishes, so that parents do not have to go to Social Security to inform them that they have had a baby. It has been rolled out to the parishes. It was anticipated that there may be some glitches in the initial delivery because it is something that 12 parishes are managing individually and so it is trying to get cohesion between them all. It is being led by the superintendent registrar and it is something that has, I think, fallen back a little in the timeline that we were hoping for it to be progressed and finalised. As it happens, our superintendent registrar retired last week so it is a priority on the agenda for the new lady, Advocate Claire Follar(?), who takes up her post on 3rd January and will be looking to ensure that it picks up again. I think it has just slipped a little bit and some of the smaller country parishes need some help with it.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
I was going to ask, when you say it has fallen back a little bit can you quantify that?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes. I think there are 6 parishes who have taken the bit between the teeth and are running with this, but some of the smaller country parishes, and I am not mentioning who they are, need to be convinced that it is beneficial for the parish. So we will work on that next year.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
So when you are talking "it has fallen back a bit" are we talking fallen back by a month, fallen back by 6 months, fallen back by a year?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, I do not have a timeline of anticipated delivery and all parishes working on it, but I can try and find that out for you.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: That would be welcomed.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
But I think we were hoping probably by now to be in the position where all of the parishes were signed up to it. Do you want me to get back to you with that information?
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Yes, we would appreciate that, thank you. You have talked about the projects that have worked, can you tell us which ones within your remit are still yet to be delivered upon in an eGovernment sphere?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: I think that is the only one.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Good.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, certainly from the Department of the Superintendent Registrar if that is correct, is it not?
Chief Officer: Yes.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: What else do we have in eGovernment?
Chief Officer:
That is the main project where we are playing into the centrally managed and organised eGovernment programme. I think if you were to look across all of the services you would find that individually they are all doing things to make services more digitised and more available, which probably they would also be put under the eGovernment banner but do not necessarily involve the central eGovernment team, they are just getting on and doing that because that is just the right thing to do.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: Police technology stuff, yes.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
The police mobile data is something that is a case in point and very timely. If you wish to learn more I can ... we probably touched ...
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
I think we have had a lot of briefings on it.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes, I think we asked for one the other day to be given. But that is all being run by the services but, as the Chief Officer says, they do not fall under the eGovernment initiative per se being led by the Chief Minister. It is all part and parcel of using digital and mobile technology to best advantage. Do you want to add anything, Stewart?
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Going to schedule?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
You are clearly familiar with it. You may have seen the media reporting last week, devices were rolled out last week to a cohort I think of 30 officers, and then they will switch. Different devices are being used but we are excited about it because it will streamline many of the services that we undertake. You were talking about simple possession of cannabis cases, as a case in hand again I think that would help to streamline more simple offences and processes of that nature, thereby saving officers time in order that they will spend more time in the community and of course focusing on other priorities. So it is very welcome.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
I think one interesting fact that we have learned recently is it is my understanding say, for example, if you were stopped for possessing a small amount of cannabis, potentially if that was to be referred to a Parish Hall inquiry it could take about 57 processes at the moment without digital technology. But the theory is, or it is anticipated, that it will be just one process when they have the mobile technology to deal with it. You must know that, Stewart?
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police: Yes.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: Yes, so it is from 57 processes ...
The Deputy of St. John :
That was an initiative of the police, not central ...
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
No, this has being led by the police for a number of years.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
But we receive funding. Following the business case it was submitted to the Public Sector Modernisation Programme, but it obviously fits into the eGovernment commitment.
The Deputy of St. John : More broadly, yes.
The Minister for Home Affairs: Yes.
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
It is a capital investment that will derive revenue savings certainly in respect of officer time. I am trying to remember the amount of officers' time we have calculated but it is not insignificant.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes, I think at the moment in the M.T.F.P. it has allocated a £500,000 saving year on year obviously from that £1.5 million investment. But when briefed recently I was very positively informed that they feel that we will certainly achieve more of a saving than £500,000 every year through using mobile data service.
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
I think it is fair to say a number of other departments are very interested in this sort of proof of concept work and I think the potential for other frontline services in other departments to use the technology will follow.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
If greater savings are generated is the intention that then those savings will be passed back to the centre or those savings might be redeployed within the department?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Well, it is an interesting question because I imagine they will appear at the end of a year in terms of carry forwards and so that will then be a matter for negotiation with the centre.
Female Speaker:
To fund some underspends.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Yes. Obviously it is rather unfair at this early stage to quantify that and make any greater promises than we already have done in the M.T.F.P., but it is certainly something that will be looked at closely once the mobile data systems are properly embedded and being used by the force.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
I am conscious of time because we have got 3 to get through and not much time to get through them in. So, Deputy Maçon, you have got 8.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Me again, right, yes. Okay, the Probation Department, as we understand, is administered by the courts and as the prison is under Home Affairs what difference would it make if it was under the Minister for Home Affairs?
The Deputy of St. John : In terms of administration.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Right. Well, it is rather a hypothetical question given the current state but if that were to happen it would be a more streamlined processed, I would imagine, somewhat like it is in other places. For example, in the U.K. is the N.O.M.S. (National Offender Management Service) where the probation of an offender and the custodial sentences are dealt with by one service so it would be more a joined up approach. Not that services are not currently joined up and work together in a very respectful way currently.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
Anything you would like to add? I can see you twitching there.
[15:00]
Chief Officer:
No, I mean, we are just at the first stages of doing some background work on prison and probation following the question from Deputy Hilton where she wanted to understand what happened elsewhere across the British Isles and the relationship between prison and probation elsewhere, and whether there were different models that could potentially provide opportunities to further enhance and strengthen the way in which offenders are managed. So we are most of the way through doing that initial background work, which we would hope to have done fairly shortly after Christmas and in the New Year. That seems to be showing quite an interesting mix of models around different parts of the country and different people seem to get different benefits from the way that they operate. The Isle of Man seems to have a very integrated model so far as they have a single person who is both the prison governor and head of the probation service, so they have got a very integrated mode under their Home Affairs Department. They have a number of advantages that they see to doing that. As the Minister says, similarly in England and Wales with the National Offender Management Service, again the U.K. Government feel that gives them certain benefits and advantages. So at the moment we are doing all of the groundwork for that.
The Deputy of St. John :
What are the weaknesses with how it is currently set up in Jersey? I am just very mindful that members of the public may turn around and say: "This might cost more or a specific investment to change this." What are the issues? Are there any issues and if there is not why try and change something that does not need to be fixed?
Chief Officer:
Well, at this stage we are very much focused on answering Deputy Hilton's question and trying to get that information together and get that presented back to the Assembly for consideration. So it is quite an early stage at which to try and answer those questions. It may be that the work that other jurisdictions have done in terms of their governance, the integration of their offender management, is not delivering them the benefits which they think it is. But we are still fairly early doors just in trying to understand the different models and how the different governing arrangements works from their equivalent to the Assembly through Ministers, through their management structures, some of which are within departments, some of which are through arm's length bodies, and then to delivery on the ground.
The Deputy of St. John :
So we will see something from that early January, will we?
Chief Officer:
You should see something, I would hope, in the first quarter of 2017.
The Deputy of St. John : Okay.
Deputy J.M. Maçon:
If that report could be forwarded to the panel, as and when it is available, we would appreciate that. Can you just confirm, is it the Scott ish model which has probation and social security that work together?
Chief Officer:
Almost. The Scott ish model has probation as part of local authority social work. So prisons are run through the National Scott ish Prison Service but the probation service is run through the numerous Scott ish local authorities and comes under the responsibility of the chief social worker in each local authority. Then what they do to tie that together is they have set up across Scotland about a dozen or so kind of criminal justice boards which are required to bring together the local prison service with the local probation service from the local authority in order to create that cohesion, which otherwise might be lacking. So the Scott ish Government came up with a different solution to create structural integration locally between what is a national prison service and local authority led probation work. I think that the members of those boards are formed from the local councillors from each of the Scott ish local authorities, brought together with a duty to manage offenders in an integrated way, and I think to allocate resources as well in an integrated manner.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Thank you.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec : Anything else on this?
Deputy J.M. Maçon: No.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
I am conscious of time now. How are you for time? We have 2 questions left to get through.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: We are probably okay.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay, good. So number 9, which is Deputy Vallois.
The Deputy of St. John :
You are more than likely extremely aware of this particular issue but a member of the public has approached us with regards to possible conflicts for members of the Independent Police Authority. We were wondering what the status of the authority is?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
The status of the authority, well, the Chief Officer and myself have met with this member of the public and listened to the concerns that have been raised. We have gone back to the Appointments Commission and requested that they provide us with information about the process that was gone through at the point of the appointments so that we can better understand those processes and how the decisions were reached by the Assembly.
The Deputy of St. John :
In terms of appointments for these particular areas, there are lots of independent boards that we may have across the States, it is not always necessarily an actual conflict of interest but there is a huge issue with perception of conflict of interest. Is there a consistency across the States in terms of applying that to independent boards, and how does that work in terms of dealing with that conflict of interest model?
Chief Officer:
Yes, the Jersey Appointments Commission oversees those sorts of issues as part of overseeing the appointments process. So, as you say, the conflict might be different for different people, they might feel that they either are or could be conflicted, depending upon the specific job, whether that is to do with the police or Children's Services or Education or whatever it might be; it is very different. So the appointments process is designed to draw out whether there are either perceived to be any conflicts on the part of the panel interviewing those individuals or whether the individuals themselves perceive any conflicts which they are invited to discuss. So ...
The Deputy of St. John :
But that can have a pretty detrimental effect on the ability for that, whether it is a board or authority, to be able to continue in the way that they work because the perceived conflict may create distrust among the public who need to have that trust in that authority for other services to continue.
Chief Officer:
Meaning in the instance that has prompted the question, the member of the public feels essentially that no lawyer should be able to be a member of the police authority, that every lawyer is inherently conflicted, as I understand that member of the public's position.
The Deputy of St. John :
What is the department's position on that though? Do they feel that is potential conflict or it is an actual conflict?
Chief Officer:
Well, that is why we have sought the advice of the Appointments Commission. In order for there to be a conflict you have to able to concede what that might be. So if there is an advocate who works across the road in a mainstream law firm doing trust law, could they be a member of the police authority? Would they be conflicted just inherently, just because they are a lawyer? Is there an inherent conflict between being a lawyer and overseeing police resourcing? But these are the questions that we have posed to the ...
The Deputy of St. John :
To the Appointments Commission.
Chief Officer:
Yes, and we will see what their answers are.
The Deputy of St. John : Okay, thank you.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: Anything else to add, no.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Finally, there have been a few bits and pieces in the news recently about road safety and the prospect of a points system has been brought up. What consideration has been given to that and how would it be envisaged that such a system would operate in Jersey?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
I am happy to address this. There are a couple of systems that have been considered recently. The Department for Infrastructure is leading on the penalty point system, which would be added to driver's licenses if they were stopped for speeding, traffic infractions. That is being progressed by the department at the moment to work out the details of it. It has been supported by the States of Jersey Police and I believe it was also supported by the 12 honorary police forces at recent workshops that have taken place between the 13 services and the Department for Infrastructure. So they are looking to bring forward, potentially, penalty points on driving licences in the New Year. That is not our remit but it is supported by us as a department, but the details are being worked up at the moment. But I think it will probably be based upon the U.K. legislation, from what I understand. Is that what you are referring to?
Deputy S.Y. Mézec : Yes, I think so.
The Deputy of St. John :
Can I ask in terms of how ... because understandably the Road Traffic Law is under Infrastructure, but of course under your remit there is the enforcement side of things. Can you explain how it gets from the enforcement side of things and fed back up as to whether the legislation is fit for purpose for that particular issue, whatever it might be, whether it is drink driving or whether it is reckless driving, anything it might be, in terms of strengthening the legislation or whether it needs to be in legislation? How is that fed through and how does that work?
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I guess that is why we go through the process of writing annual reports and there is a policing annual report which will look at issues around road safety. It is something that we monitor, the number of fatal and serious accidents, and then each department has that respective opportunity and ability to raise issues with another department if they feel it is necessary.
The Deputy of St. John :
I am just thinking in terms of if it was more effective for the force to do something that the legislation may be stopping them from doing or it is not as clear as it could be, so they would be more effective in their role in enforcement ...
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Are you talking about the current law?
The Deputy of St. John :
Yes, the current laws in place for road safety.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
So if there were issues that the police as an enforcement agency felt needed to be raised then they would come to us as Ministers in the first instance to bring it to our attention and then we would take it forward from there.
The Deputy of St. John :
Because the action plan I think was only literally released yesterday, I think it was ...
The Minister for Home Affairs:
The last few days or the last week, yes.
The Deputy of St. John :
I do not know what day of the week it is at the moment.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
I think the Minister for Infrastructure was quite keen, with the whole process that his department have just been through, to include parishes, each honorary force, and the States of Jersey Police Force. They were all in attendance at the workshops that were held, there were at least 2 workshops, which sought to agree and understand the key issues to each of those parties.
The Deputy of St. John :
Because there are action points within that report and it does talk about your involvement as Home Affairs and discussions about how to deal with some of these things. One of the highlights in the report was the carelessness in terms of accidents, so the majority of accidents was because of carelessness. But trying to identify how that would be dealt with in terms of those actions, is a penalty system going to assist that or is it a better testing system so, therefore, feeding that through to infrastructure to say: "We need ..."
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
I think, as with any issue of that nature, it is often a combination of factors so it is about prevention, reduction and enforcement, no one element. You are probably never going to enforce your way out of a ... it comes back to education, does it not, and making drivers better informed of the consequences of their actions, so whether it is using a mobile phone or whether it is not using a seatbelt. We are running a drink drive campaign at the moment. Thankfully the numbers are incredibly low despite the large number of drivers being breath tested. I think today there were just 2 that were positive thus far, so that might tend to suggest that the messaging that we continue to promote is working.
[15:15]
But to specifically answer your point, yes, the Assistant Minister is spot on, if we feel that something is perhaps not quite right or we could improve upon it then we will raise it.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: And they have not done.
The Deputy of St. John :
Okay, good to know. Following on the drink drive side of things, there is an action point in there about lowering the limit on drink drive limits but, as I understand it, the police are very much about zero tolerance. They are trying to make awareness about: "Do not drink, zero tolerance, we are not having any of it." So would it not be better just to say not to drink at all if you are going to drive rather than an action point, we are going to lower ... I mean ...
Head of Crime Services, States of Jersey Police:
Our message is, you are right, do not drink and drive. In terms of lowering the thresholds, that is not really ... again it is like the cannabis question. That is not really something for me to address, that is clearly a ministerial and a States ...
The Deputy of St. John :
Minister, how do you feel about reducing the ...
The Minister for Home Affairs:
If I recall, when I attended the workshop I supported lowering the blood alcohol limit. I think that the limit that is being suggested is just to bring us into line with other European nations, particularly our close neighbours but perhaps it is something that needs further discussion.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
I think ultimately it is a political decision because it is something that will be taken to the Assembly.
The Deputy of St. John :
This will come to the Assembly, will it? Sometimes I do not know whether it sits under a Minister or it sits under the States Assembly so ...
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
I have always assumed that it would come to the Assembly because part of the Alcohol Licensing Policy Group, is it not, so my understanding has always been that it would need to go to the Assembly.
The Deputy of St. John :
Okay. So there would be a potential to amend it if it goes to the States Assembly?
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
I may be wrong. Let us get Tom to double check on that and get back to you on it.
The Deputy of St. John : Okay, thank you.
Chief Officer:
I am making a note as you speak.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay, anything else? Right, there we are. So thank you very much, that has been helpful and obviously we have a few further things that we would like to see in terms of the Sexual Offences Law and the Cybercrime, we have asked if we can see bits and pieces for that to help us with our understanding. So if that can be done at some point we would appreciate that. Any final points? Unless there is anything that you would like to draw to our attention that we can be excused for having not known up until now?
The Minister for Home Affairs: I do not think so.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs:
You were going to ask me about the firework regulations?
Deputy S.Y. Mézec : Yes, we did I thought.
Deputy J.M. Maçon: We have run out of time.
The Minister for Home Affairs:
Can I just tell you then that we will have a White Paper and hoping to lodge them by the middle of next year?
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
It is a lot of White Papers for next year.
Assistant Minister for Home Affairs: Yes.
Deputy S.Y. Mézec :
Okay, thank you. So at this point I ask the media and public if they could please withdraw. Thank you for attending.
[15:18]