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Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel
Quarterly Public Hearing
Witness: The Minister for Infrastructure
Tuesday, 6th July 2021
Panel:
Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade (Chair) Connétable S.A. Le Sueur -Rennard of St. Saviour Deputy G.J. Truscott of St. Brelade
Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin
Witnesses:
Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour - The Minister for Infrastructure
Ms. E. Littlechild – Group Director, Operations and Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment
Ms. L. Magris – Head of Sustainability and Foresight, Strategic Policy, Planning and Performance Mr. T. Dodd - Director of Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment
Ms. L. Walsh - Legislative Drafter, Legislative Drafting Office, States Greffe
Mr. T. Daniels - Director - Property, Jersey Property Holdings, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment
Mr. G. Forrest - Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment Mr. A. Scate - Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment
[11:35]
Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade (Chair):
Good morning, Minister and welcome to this quarterly hearing with the Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel. I am Mike Jackson , Constable of St. Brelade , I am the Chair. We have Deputy Graham Truscott of St. Brelade and online we have
Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin : Deputy Steve Luce of St Martin.
Connétable S.A. Le Sueur -Rennard of St. Saviour Sadie Le Sueur -Rennard, Constable of St. Saviour .
The Connétable of St. Brelade : And your team, Minister?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Thank you, Chair. Deputy Kevin Lewis , Minister for Instructure. We have got the director general on with us, Mr. Andy Scate, Director - Property, Jersey Property Holdings, Tim Daniels; we also have Louise Magris and Tristian Dodd. People are coming and going on this one. My display is playing up. I think we also have Ellen Littlechild as well, director of Operations and Transport.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you, I am going straight to the Jersey Youth Parliament and the Climate for Change group questions. In relation to recycling in schools, does every school have access to kerbside recycling collections at the moment?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Not every school. We did have the Youth Parliament with us. We did a complete tour of our recycling facilities are La Collette so we have a good talk down there and I think we had about 16 members of the Youth Parliament turn up for that, which we had them suited and booted in the hard hats, hi- vis, and had a complete tour of the recycling facilities. If I could hand over to Louise.
Group Director, Operations and Transport:
I think this may be one for me, Minister. It is Ellen Littlechild. I am sorry my camera is not working. Not every school does have access to recycling facilities. This is the issue sometime with our kerbside recycling, schools need a more frequent collection, weekly. Some of the parishes kerbside recycling collections do collect from some of the schools but certainly not in a number of secondary schools at this stage.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Do you have a plan to implement that in any way?
Group Director, Operations and Transport:
I think it is a plan with the parishes and the schools and with ourselves. So we and Solid Waste are happy to support but, again, it is about getting the engagement with the schools and also trying to understand the collection and who is best to collect those recycled materials from the schools in order to be able to recycle that in the future.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
In terms of leading it forward, there are some of us from parishes here who are obviously keen to encourage that, do you think it should come from the parishes or from the schools? These things tend to stagnate if someone does not take the lead. What is your feeling, Ellen?
Group Director, Operations and Transport:
I think it is certainly 3 ways. I am happy for the Solid Waste to help facilitate and have those discussions between the parishes and the schools and I think it is effectively the commitment and support from all 3 bodies in order to make that happen. As you may be aware, Chair, we have not, at the moment, currently recruited into the recycling manager post. We are out to recruit and once that individual is in post then we will start developing a new strategy to start working more closely with the schools moving forward.
The Connétable of St. Saviour :
Could I just say that having most of the schools in my parish, and we are very keen on this recycling, St. Luke's are doing it 100 per cent. St. Luke's School has been great. Grainville are fairly good but the cleaners are not. The cleaners just throw anything in the bags. St. Michaels have taken up the gauntlet and they are trying very hard, Highland College have just joined us, I thought they would have been with us from the very beginning but they have just joined so we will not know for a couple of weeks if it is successful. It seems that is it. I was talking to my foreman down at the depot, because we do our own refuse, and he said that basically the schools are not bothering, yet we provide the bags free and this is what is happening. But, as I say, Grainville is a secondary school, they are trying desperately and they seem to be working but then the cleaners come and the cleaners throw everything in the bags and my guys do not separate them so they just go into the incinerator. St. Luke's have taken it on board and are 100 per cent.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Perhaps, Minister, you might liaise with the new Minister for Children and Education and encourage some activity in that direction. I am sure the parishes will be keen to support but there seems to be some necessity for the schools to up their game a little bit.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Absolutely, Chair, more than happy to liaise with the new Minister for Children and Education on that one.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Moving to the consultation with the retail industry on the Draft Single-Use Plastics etc. (Restrictions) (Jersey) Law 202-, P.61, have there been discussions between Government and major food shops in relation to implementing a plastic bag recycling point that shoppers can reuse bags when they go to shops and so avoid new ones having to be bought and used all the time?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
I will hand you to Louise in a moment, but I will say that I do have an amendment going in. Obviously we have had representation from the Chamber of Commerce and they seem to feel that to get a reasonable deal on plastic bags they have had to order well in advance and order in bulk. So what we have had to do, because they are on-Island, plus obviously trade has been a bit slow with COVID, we decided to give them an additional 6 months to get through the plastic bags they have. The fact being they have them here, they are on Island and they are made and cannot be unmade. It would seem pointless to send tonnes of plastic bags down to the Energy from Waste plant. So I am putting in this amendment to give them an additional 6 months to get through their stock before the new regime starts.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Before we hand over to Louise, do you think, Minister, there is a risk we are just kicking the ball down the road on this? Yes, we have had COVID, yes, we have had a reduction in the economy and a reduction on the high street in retail turnover but this has been spoken of for a long time. Now, in your proposed amendment, which we have not seen yet, what date are you looking at?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
It is just an additional 6 months to get through their stocks.
The Connétable of St. Brelade : Which takes us to when?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
What will the end date be on that, Louise?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
I would need to do the maths in my head really quickly. Six months on top of the original 6 month implementation period, so it will be from the agreement, assuming it is agreed the law, 6 months and then an additional 6 months. So I think the point is well made that is a lot longer. The strong information we have had back from the retailers is they have 10s of thousands of pounds of bags that they would have to basically dump, that would go into the Energy from Waste plant. They would counter - and I am certainly not speaking for the retailers - the Chair's point by saying that they were not able to begin their transition into the new sorts of bags until they were certain what the law would say, that they were clear of COVID and they responded in good faith at the end of the summer in the consultation period expecting their bags to diminish but shopping habits have changed. That is the feedback that the Minister has received. I appreciate that feels frustrating to the panel.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
But, as I say, they are on-Island and they have been made. We do not have landfill in Jersey, which is good, so all the refuse apart from recyclables would go the Energy from Waste plant. It seems that rather than destroying 10s of thousands of pounds of reasonably good bags, it seems a shame to put them straight into the incinerator. They should be used, get through that stock and then we can get but that is a maximum, people can transition before that when they run out.
The Deputy of St. Martin :
Can I just clarify something then? We have 6 months and another 6 months but we do not have a start date yet?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
That is correct because the law is not yet adopted. The law will be debated by the States Assembly and, if approved, which one hopes it would be because the Assembly asked for the legislation to be brought before them, then of course the clock starts ticking at that point.
The Deputy of St. Martin :
Surely we should just set a date rather than wait for the law. If we are talking to them now and they say we want to another 6 months on top, it just seems to me I do not know.
[11:45]
The Connétable of St. Brelade : Do we have a debate date?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
Yes, it is the last sitting before the summer.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
That is going to be July, so it will be 6 months on from that date you are suggesting?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight: That would be right, yes.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
So we can say that it is going to be January or February 2022?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
No, so it would be a year from that date.
The Connétable of St. Brelade : That is too long.
The Connétable of St. Saviour : Going to be a year?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
Sorry, yes, that is right. There is 6 months in the original law implementation period and what the retailers have done is they have come back when they have seen the law lodged and they have said that that 6 months is insufficient despite what they thought when they replied to the consultation, so they have asked for longer because they have existing stock. That is the strong feedback we have received from a number of high profile retailers with existing stock. That was the plea from them. Quite rightly, as the Minister said, the intention is that they will transition absolutely as soon as possible and many will make 6 months and many will make 7, 8 or 9 months but some just need a little longer because of the stocks that they currently hold.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Can I suggest we try and achieve some compromise? I think retailers will stretch it as far as they possibly can, I think I would, but there has to be a little bit of stick waving. It would be good, Minister, and it would enhance your position, if you were to put a date before the elections so that this is achieved in this Government's term and you can say you have done it. It is a big tick. What about, say, May 2022 and specifying that date. That gives reasonable time for the use of existing stocks. I am sure the larger retailers who are linked to U.K. (United Kingdom) parent companies will return their stocks to the U.K. should they so wish, truthfully.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
I think that has already been considered. It is the local print run that has been the problem, because they have been printed especially for Jersey. I can speak to the team regarding whether that is achievable but there will be some dumping, that is for sure. We will try and keep that to a minimum.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Just moving on with this draft single-use plastic restrictions, what are the cost implications for the enforcement of the law beyond the first and second years of implementation?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
That will be ongoing inspections and the addition of additional information because, of course, campaigns require topping up and reminding people, but it will be ongoing inspections as part of the ongoing work of the trading standards officers who are going to be carrying out the enforcement. As you can imagine, when they are visiting premises for other reasons they will check on bag specifications and, of course, the other part of it will be responding to enforcement calls from members of the public who may ring in and say: "We have seen someone selling a bag that we think is not the right bag" and then officers will need to follow up and determine if that is indeed the case. If enforcement actions were needed or cases need to be prepared then that is the sort of enforcement we would expect. We do, of course, expect that to diminish over time as the new culture steps in. As you rightly say, the big work is in the first couple of years but we certainly expect some work in the first few years to keep enforcement up and running and to be able to respond to members of the public's queries when they ring in.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Going back to the point of talking about feedback from stakeholders and their wish to extend it further. Have you been talking to the Chamber of Commerce, who have you been negotiating with in the retail industry? How many stakeholders have been involved with this?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight: Would you like me to answer that, Minister?
The Minister for Infrastructure: If you would, please.
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
It has not been me directly, it has been a colleague dealing with it through the Chamber of Commerce but also through direct contacts. There has been at least 5 large retailers who have shared their concerns with us and their difficulties. There is some commercial sensitivity around the information they have shared because what they are sharing is that their business turnover has been reduced, which you can imagine is something that is a sensitivity to them. It is in the order of those sorts of numbers. There is a supermarket, there are some high profile retailers who also work with subsidiaries who have problems and some one-offs. There are certainly some retailers that have said they have no problems at all and will be able to comply and there is a few that cannot. Unfortunately the ones that are telling us that they cannot are the ones with 10s of thousands of bags of stock, which provides the difficulty, if you like.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Have you categorised which other types of single-use plastic items might be incorporated into the draft law?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
We have not started that work yet. I think we are adhering to the not counting of chickens just yet. We would like obviously for this first piece of legislation to be approved but then you are absolutely right, the next steps will be to look at other single-use disposable items. The way that we would do that, as you would expect, is to look at best practice elsewhere, look at where the volumes in Jersey lie and then start to categorise what Ministers and the new Government might like to add to the legislation, which was always the plan.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
The plan is developed to include other restricted single-use plastic items over time, could you advise if there are plans to look at implementing appropriate composting infrastructure for the disposal of these many alternative single-use items that are compostable? Coffee cups, disposable cutlery, et cetera, there does not seem to be anything available. We all buy these items but then they go in the general refuse bin. What can we do about that?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight: Minister, would you like me to take that one?
The Minister for Infrastructure: Yes, if you would, please?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
I see Ellen is coming on as well. You are absolutely right, there are operational issues around composting some items. I think, as you know, and we have had difficult discussions with you about the progress of the new resource capacity to reset our recycling and composting ambition. That is something that will be addressed in the next term of Government but I appreciate that is longer term. Ellen, do you want to comment on any possibility for changes within existing operating practice?
Group Director, Operations and Transport:
Composting banks does cause us problems. It currently takes us 16 weeks to create the soil improver. To take on compostable bags it would take us over a longer period. The other issue, which would be a significant concern for the composting team is the possibility of contamination. A lot of these bags look similar to plastic bags and, again, we would have to relook at our processes to see whether we would be able to cater for that at this moment in time. As Louise has mentioned before, we are hoping to look at our Island waste strategy next year and again when we are looking at single-use plastics I think we will be doing a full review of looking at what does Jersey want to do and how do we take that forward in the future.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
It seems to me that we are probably lagging behind a little bit and we do need to firm up on this strategy because I think the public want it. You cannot demand the public get involved in recycling and not provide the facility so to do. There is no doubt about that. There is a question whether the retailer should have the freedom to choose as to which bags they produce. Could you elaborate further on why the present view was taken with regard to the current strategy, if you like, and what the retailer's view is?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
I think that one was for me but I am afraid I do not quite understand the question, I do apologise.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Do you have question 8 there? Could you just
Deputy G.J. Truscott of St. Brelade :
So, Minister, we are aware that the Council of Ministers opted to make it mandatory for the profits made from the sale of the Bags for Life to be given to charities. In their view - I believe it is in their view - the retailer should have the freedom to choose, can you respond to that, please, Minister?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Is the question of whether the money should go to charity or not?
Deputy G.J. Truscott: Yes, indeed.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
They have commercial decisions to make but if they want to give it to charity that is something that I would welcome. There are many good causes out there that will be glad of the money. I am not sure of the actual agreement at the moment.
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
Apologies, was it not the case that that part of the original proposition was withdrawn because I believe, as I recall at the time the decision was made, it was very difficult for Government to bring in a law that required anybody to do something very specific with the income. As I recall that part of the original amendment was withdrawn and it was the case that the minimum price that is charged for the bag under the agreed preparation of the law was that the retailers could keep the profits or keep the money basically. Of course if they wished to do something different with that money, reinvest it, charity, environmental initiatives, of course that would be up to them. Part of the ability for retailers to keep the price that they charge for the bag helps with enforcement and compliance because then it means that there is an incentive, if you like, to the retailer to ensure that the correct bag is being sourced, purchased, there is no money lost to them, if you like, for complying with the legislation. That is why I think that route was chosen. I am sorry, I am not sure that completely made sense but I hope it did.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Yes, it does, Louise, thank you. That makes it discretionary from the retailers' point of view, which is
Head of Sustainability and Foresight: That is right.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Specifically relating to this area of waste management, what consideration is or has been given to other polluter paid type policy levers where income rates for non-environmentally friendly behaviours contribute to funding positive environmentally friendly behaviours? Are there other areas that you might think this could be applied? Once again it might be for you, Louise, I think.
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
Thank you, I am happy to take this. This is wider question. There is an environmental taxes subgroup which is chaired by Deputy Guida, Senator Gorst and Deputy Johnson also sit on it, and they report to the Revenue Policy Development Board, who for the last year have been working on environmental economic instruments that would make sense to investigate and apply to Jersey and they have a programme of work that will outline what they plan to look at in the next year or so and then bring before the States as work top proposals. I am afraid I cannot give you a spoiler alert on the Government Plan but it will all be outlined in the Government Plan for you. You will see where our thinking is but I do not think it is a spoiler to say you would not be a million miles off if waste charging was something that was going to be looked at. That is something that States Members have recognised for a while. Obviously it is important for me to say that nothing will come forward without proper stakeholder consultation and consideration by the States Assembly ultimately.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
I think waste charges to the parish is something that has rumbled on for many years and I cannot guarantee it is going to be willing accepted. Do you consider there to be any disadvantages to introducing the draft law without this overarching waste strategy in place? So the draft plastic bags law as we do not have the overarching waste strategy yet. Do you think one goes with the other?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
I think it moves in tandem with our general direction. I do not think there is any disjointing there. We are all heading in the same direction, we all know we want to reuse, recycle as much as we possibly can. The whole world is going in that direction and we are happy to follow suit or indeed lead the way at times.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you. Minister, we understand that a level 2 penalty fee for non-compliance of plastic bag regulation requirement, as set out in the draft law, would be £1,000. Could you expand on how the penalty is determined from the scale of penalties, which is in the law, and why this particular level is deemed appropriate for the low value item?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
It would be a maximum of but I do not have that do you have that, Louise?
[12:00]
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
So we took advice from the law officers who, of course, peg similar types of infringements with other pieces of legislation and so they will have determined that based on the broad spectrum of fines that could ultimately be imposed or other enforcement action. So, of course, things like enforcement notices always go first. We would always prefer to see people comply, particularly if they have made a mistake in non-compliance and, of course, fines and court are always the last resort because the environment has lost by that point. It would have been advised based on the plethora of other legislation they would have compared against and that is the advice that we received.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
We understand that insofar as is practical there will be some level of performance management to enable the success of the implementation of the draft law. Could you talk us through how this will be evaluated and also whether, for transparency, statistics relating to performance management will be made publicly available at regular intervals on gov.je?
Head of Sustainability and Foresight:
That is a good question, thank you. I do not have a detailed answer on that because it is not my team that will be doing the enforcement action. The environmental health team certainly do carry out performance management and time recording and all of those things that you would expect. I am very happy to go back and get you some further information and provide that in written format to the panel if that is okay but I cannot tell you myself what the details might be at the moment. I am sorry about that.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you, yes, I think we will need to monitor what goes on to see if it will work or not. Moving on to the Draft Road Traffic (No. 68) (Jersey) Regulations, P.39, Minister - this is the cat law - in the report to the proposition it explains that both the States of Jersey Police and the Jersey Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals were both consulted in the drafting of the proposed regulations. Could you expand to us through the feedback you received whether they are satisfied with the draft regulations as proposed?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
We have the head of transport here, Tristan Dodds and also Liz Walsh. Could you speak to that?
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Good afternoon, Chair. Yes, we spoke to the police, the States vet and the Jersey Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and we drafted the legislation in conjunction with them. They indicated to us that they were satisfied. It was a bit of a continuum to be honest from the previous provisions that we had put in the Highway Code prior to this proposition being brought.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
There is no mention of consultation with the Comité des Chefs de Police and given that regulation 3 will impact on the role of Centeniers can you explain why they were not consulted?
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
So we issued the documents to the police, to the scrutiny, to the Comité des Connétable s and to the Jersey Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. We did not send, you are right, directly to the Comité des Chefs de Police because we felt at the time that it would make its way to them even through Home Affairs or the Comité des Connétable s by consulting with the parishes.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
I do not think you are wrong but the reality is it has not worked because it only came fairly late in the day before the date of the debate that Centeniers were not very happy with what they were going to be expected to do and felt that the proposals as put were unpoliceable. I just wonder whether Liz in the drafting team may have a contribution on that and how it can be made more policeable. Any thoughts.
Legislative Drafter, Legislative Drafting Office:
I was not entirely clear what the basis was for thinking that it was not policeable.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
From what I gather it is due to the fact that cats are effectively feral animals with no identification and, shall we say, free spirits. It is a concern and if the motorists were to hit a cat there is no certainty that they can be identified. Clearly, I think most people, if they could identify the animal they would report it. I speak as a cat and dog lover and would love to see this in place but I want to be certain it is practical and will work. I think that is where the Centeniers are coming from.
Legislative Drafter, Legislative Drafting Office:
That was recognised in the drafting. It was accepted that the most that a driver would be able to do would be to say a cat has been hit and where it happened. If that information goes to the J.S.P.C.A. (Jersey Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Animals) by passing that information on if somebody has mislaid their cat and knows that the J.S.P.C.A. has a record of information as to where cats have been struck, given I think the relatively few times in which that is going to happen, an owner would at least have enough information to form a view as to whether the cat that has been struck may be his or her cat. Most cat owners tend to have some idea where their cats go. I do not know how many reports to the J.S.P.C.A. are likely to happen but we are not talking so many reports that people would not really know where to start. Tristian might have a view but maybe it is just one or 2 a week, in which case
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
What I would say is that throughout our discussions with the police, both under the previous proposition and this proposition, which is passed by the States, we recognised and are following discussions with police that the police only bring a limited amount to this because basically the police are unable to offer any medical assistance to a cat or anything like that. The law puts the impetus upon the driver who thinks that they may have hit a cat to report the location to the Jersey Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. If the cats is there an ambulance can be sent and they can come and offer humanitarian - if that is the right word - aid to the cat or otherwise they can keep a record of where the incident occurred so that if someone is interested they can find that. The issue that arises, you are right, is how is it enforced. It is enforced where someone sees a vehicle hitting a cat and that driver does not stop or it comes to light that driver has not stopped to report the incident. That is when the law comes into effect. If you recall there was a story running around about the same time about an incident where someone had stopped and dispatched the cat themselves. It is to deal with those type issues. That, of course, will be dealt with by the prevention of cruelty to animals legislation that stops anyone euthanising a cat other a vet.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
It is also the problem that obviously the law has been in place for some time regarding domestic animals and, indeed, farm animals. So heaven forbid, should a dog be struck often as not the dog is lying there and it is quite obvious that a dog has been hit, to both the driver and everyone else, but a cat is slightly different usually in size and even if a cat is fatally injured the cat will run off and either run home or run into the bushes. It is probably a nervous reaction thing. So a driver reporting the fact that a cat has been hit and in what area then it would give the owners, if they rang the J.S.P.C.A. and if a cat had been reported being hit in that area, some comfort to know where there animal is. A lot of cats now are chipped or with collars so they can be identified. Most domestic pets now, I believe, do have the chip but it is to give comfort to the owners as well.
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
To be clear the offence, which the police would be interested in, only occurs if a person who has hit a cat has failed to contact the animal shelter. That, of course, by its nature would require some sort of witness because the police cannot be everywhere.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Minister, should the draft regulations be adopted how do you propose to publicise and educate the public on the new requirements which by law are to report a road traffic accident involving a cat to the J.S.P.C.A.? How would you get that message across?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
It will be included in the Highway Code and our team will be publicising it. Do you have the information, Tris?
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Yes, so D.V.S. (Driver and Vehicle Standards) set the curriculum for the driving test and they also publish the Highway Code so it will be in an update to the Highway Code, we would make media releases in order to make sure that people are aware and you would expect it to be included in driver training along with all the other things that a driver needs to be aware of and how to respond in case of an accident.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
It is part, obviously, of the driving training to have a working knowledge of the Highway Code. That will be included.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Just to go into the detail once again, could you clarify the rationale for the differentiation and separate inclusion of Article 52(4) which deals with cats separately to Article 52(1)(c) which outlines the duty of the driver of a vehicle in case of an accident and if injury is caused to any horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog. So we have a differentiation there. What is driving that?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
I will bring the team in shortly, but there is a question of liability should your dog slip its lead and cause an accident then you would be, I would say, liable for that. As you say, cats are free spirits and usually far, far smaller so unless somebody actually swerved to avoid a cat, which you are not supposed to do, and cause an accident then the result is different. Maybe the team could clarify that.
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
I am sure Liz will want to come in on the technical details but, yes, exactly what the Minister says, there is a duty to keep the other animals under control, there is not such a duty for cats.
Legislative Drafter, Legislative Drafting Office:
Just to add, that is exactly right. That is the key difference between cats and the other animals. That was the question of ownership liability and that is why we could not just add cats to the existing list of animals.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
I see, thank you. The report and proposition states that there are no cost or manpower implications to Government from the enactment of these regulations. Do you consider there to be any such implications to the J.S.P.C.A. and/or the parish administrations? Have you consulted on that?
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
We spoke to the Jersey Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and they indicated to us that they are content that they could undertake this within their existing resources to receive the calls and to take down the detail or to send an ambulance out if required because that is basically what they are set up to do in any case. Where an animal is injured their intention is to respond to that injury and to help that animal.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you. Right, moving away from cats the panel will be consulting with stakeholders before commenting on P.39 in due course. Vehicle testing, Minister, and probably for Tristan as well I will ask Graham to ask this question.
Deputy G.J. Truscott:
Minister, now that a preferred option for a government-owned test facility has been decided, please can you update us on the next steps the department is taking to establish whether the facility will be run by Government or franchised out?
The Minister for Infrastructure: Okay, Andy, would you like to take that?
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Yes, certainly. Thank you, Minister. The work has been ongoing now to assess firstly the feasibility we were undertaking was delayed to a certain extent because of the COVID issues that we were facing and worked with our consultants. However, we are in the process of finalising that piece of work and we are in a position very shortly to come with a decision as to whether this is government owned and run or franchised out effectively. I will pass over to Gordon in a minute for some timescales around that specific part. The next question thereafter is where and the location of such facility to then take place, which again we are in the early stages of feasibility.
[12:15]
Things have progressed, we are getting closer to these decisions but we are not fully there yet. I will just pass over to Gordon because I am sure Gordon will have some more detailed timescales.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Yes, we have Gordon Forrest, head of D.V.S. that can fill in on the detail.
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards:
Thank you, Andy, thank you, Minister. Good afternoon, Chair and panel. The last time we updated you we had narrowed the options down to 2, either franchise model or Government inspecting. We went out for expressions of interest at the end of May and that process finished yesterday lunchtime. I can inform the panel that we have had a lot of interest, both on and off the Island, from companies and businesses, both locally in the motor industry and businesses off-Island who do this for a living. So the next step will be the business case which we will finish by the end of July and that will take into account whether we go out to tender for a franchisee or Government itself carries out the inspection. That is where we are as far as the P.T.I. (private technical inspection) at the moment.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
You aware, Chair, that testing has already started for we have been testing heavy goods vehicles and public service vehicles all along but testing has started with 125 motorbikes, mini buses, et cetera. Everything is in motion so we are in full compliance with the Vienna Convention.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
The resource implications of either franchised or government run are probably going to be similar. Would you think there is the manpower, if I can use that term, within the Island to deal with it or will labour or resource have to be brought in?
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards: Minister, shall I
The Minister for Infrastructure: You carry on, Gordon.
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards:
From the manpower point of view, as we discussed last time and updated the panel, we are very keen not to take established and fully trained mechanics out of the industry to do this. We have been working very closely with Highlands, Skills Jersey and the motor trade to establish courses since our last conversation where you expressed concerned about the lack of skills in the Island and we are progressing that. We have met twice now and by the time we do introduce them there will be a pipeline of both enough to carry out the P.T.I.s and the bigger picture of developing mechanics going forward for the industry.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Would there be any merit in your discussions with Highlands have you discussed the possibility of sending potential students to the U.K. for specific training? Clearly Highlands will not be set up for this and for the small numbers involved at this stage. Would it be for your department or for Highlands to deal with that?
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards:
It is a joint thing with D.V.S. input. For the actual P.T.I.s the qualification will be less so that can be done most probably online. The bigger picture of training mechanics, yes, that is a discussion going forward with Highlands.
Deputy G.J. Truscott:
Regarding manpower required to run such an organisation like this, including obviously the admin, et cetera, how many people are envisaged to be needed to set this up?
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards:
I think it is 14 to 16, that is what the initial study has produced; 14 to 16, Deputy .
Deputy G.J. Truscott:
That will be about 16 technical people but there would be administration as well, one presumes.
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards:
There will be administration but, yet again, it depends on I know there is not a huge difference between whether Government inspect or a franchisee wins a tender to do it but, yes, there will be administration. I have not got an exact figure on administrative support.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Given the potential that the Government might operate this, is there a site from which it could be dealt with?
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards: Yes. Sorry, shall I take that, Minister?
The Minister for Infrastructure: Please.
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards:
Yes. We looked extensively at the La Collette area. Unfortunately, virtually all of that falls within the blast zone, so it is not realistic to pursue the La Collette area. We are actively looking at other sites at the moment but it is too early to go into the detail of that, Chair.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Will you be identifying sites before making the decision as to whether it is Government-operated or franchised because that must make a fundamental difference, I would have thought?
Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards:
We are carrying out both at the same time, Chair.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you very much. Minister, moving on to the hospital site at Overdale, in light of the outcome of the recent St. Helier Parish Assembly which rejected the proposals for the access route to the future hospital, can you advise what the next steps for the Department of Infrastructure, Housing and Environment will be in conjunction with our hospital team that you have a part to play, what would you be doing then?
The Minister for Infrastructure: Yes, I think
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Yes, thank you, Minister, and thank you, Chair. I would like to just put a bit of context around what the Parish Assembly was for in the first place. The Parish Assembly has met twice and the Assembly was there to give direction to its own parish, as to the role that the parish is taking in relation to the Our Hospital Project, specifically in relation to the land transactions required to put the proposal together. I think it is important to say that the Parish Assembly itself was not a vote against the hospital project. It was a message to the Parish of St. Helier as to the line it should be taking with the land transactions that are before it. The Parish of St. Helier are now clear on 2 occasions with the Parish Assembly that the parishioners want their own parish to take a certain position, so that is clear from that side of the equation. In terms of the project itself, the project is progressing. We have a States Assembly mandate to bring forward the hospital project and a lot of work is taking place to bring that to fruition. That means a planning application for November of this year and thereafter there will be just prior to that, a States decision on the funding for the proposal. The work of the applicant, if I can put it in that term, is continuing on one side. The role of landowners, of which the Parish Assembly was informing, is on the other side. The Parish Assembly gives us clarity and the project team that the Parish of St. Helier has not been given permission by its parishioners to talk to us in that way at this point in time.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Do you think there is a way forward? Clearly, the Assembly will have instructed the Constable to listen to their views, are those views compatible with what is being proposed for the site and are you able to overcome the objections raised.
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
I think in the most part there are objections that can be overcome. I think there was a lot of focus on just gaining clarity as to what land is required for either access or the main proposal itself. We are a lot clearer now as to what the design of the scheme is and what land requirements there will be thereafter. I think we are also very clear now on the project side as to where the impact on landscape is going to be but also where the enhancements to the landscape will be. I think certainly the commentary at the Parish Assembly - and I attended that Parish Assembly the other evening - and it was very clear that there were some parties there who wanted greater clarity on the road alignment, some parties wanted greater clarity around tree cover and tree loss or tree enhancements. Some were anti it as well, some were not in favour of the proposal at all in that location; I think that is fair to say. On the whole I think the Assembly was looking for detail as to, what does this mean for their community in that location of St. Helier ? We are now in a position that we can provide a lot more detail as to where the road alignment is going to be and what land we are needing for the various buildings for the site.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Do you think and it is always easy in retrospect, would it not have been better to have this detail out upfront because a lack of it has really caused more problems than anything else, as far as I can see? Would you agree that there ought to have been much more emphasis on the detail earlier on?
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
I think the problem is that the detail takes a while to produce. I think it is, invariably, just a product of the time needed to with all of the sort of professional inputs that are required around, whether it be a road design or a building design, there needs to be a lot of survey work done. We have been able to move forward some of that survey work now because the original Parish Assembly, for instance, prevented any access to parish land, even for surveying, even for observation surveys for those sort of things. Once we have the raw data, the designers, whether they be highway designers or architects, can start using that to design their buildings and road alignments. I think there is a danger of producing things too early if they are not finally formed because then either the project or the community are misled or the project is criticised for not having the right data or detail. There is always a balance to strike. We have just got to make sure it is available at the right time.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Indeed. Is there a plan to be another Parish Assembly once detail has been produced? What will the process be?
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
We are in dialogue with the parish administration and the Connétable . Whether there is a need for another Parish Assembly, of course we are happy to attend as a wider project team to answer any questions the parish may have or parishioners may have. My personal comment on this would be that I think it needs to probably be a bit more targeted next time to absolutely just narrow down on the specific issues that some of the residents have. The approach at the last Parish Assembly was a much wider approach. We discussed sort of wider design, wider need, wider health issues, as well as access. I think if there is a further Parish Assembly it would be really fundamentally focused on just the access proposal and what the final road design would be.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Indeed. Thank you very much, Andy. Moving on to the Rouge Bouillon site, Minister, can you update us on the ongoing feasibility work to consider options for the former police headquarters at Rouge Bouillon?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Yes, certainly. If I can hand over to Tim Daniels, Director - Property, Jersey Property Holdings.
Director - Property, Jersey Property Holdings:
Chair, thank you very much indeed. Good afternoon. I am sure you are aware that last year the Justice and Home Affairs Department commissioned a very thorough review of the provision of their blue light service to see in terms of response time, effects and ability to get to emergencies, where the best site on the Island should be. There was a very thorough study conducted by an external agency and the outcome of the review showed that their current location at the Rouge Bouillon site, with the historical data in terms of location, severity and type of emergencies, that was the most effective. The work showed that the current location for the Fire and Rescue Service and indeed the Ambulance Service was the location that would serve the Island community the best. Later last year in discussion of that review, the Education Department indicated that they were also interested in the Rouge Bouillon site, specifically for Rouge Bouillon School.
[12:30]
However, I think the assessment was rather narrowly focused on the specific needs of the school itself, rather than considering the wider benefit to the community. Again, a detailed piece of review work was undertaken to look at the distribution of primary schools across St. Helier and to determine where the best location for the provision of a primary school might be. There is an august publication called Building Bulletin 103, which details the specific requirements of a one-form, 2-form or 3-form entry school in terms of space, amenities and facilities. The available sites across town, those sites that are in public ownership and immediately available could be made available at some stage in the future and also some sites not in public ownership were considered. The best sort of layout, if you like, of education has been presented. The primary school review is completed and the review gives 8 possible scenarios to meet the primary school education requirement across town. What needs to happen now is that Home Affairs, Education and Infrastructure, Housing and Environment Departments need to look at both the J.H.A. (Justice and Home Affairs) emergency review and the primary school review and work out the most effective location of the varying facilities, acknowledging of course that we have a need to provide housing, that there is a need to provide amenities and we also have infrastructure requirements. The review has been completed but the work is now underway to determine how the scenarios can be played out to deliver the best for all of the Island.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
It sounds like you are going to have to get round a table. There is a question from Sadie, it may be with the previous hospital subject, Sadie, what was your question?
The Connétable of St. Saviour :
Yes, it was for the previous subject on the hospital and on the road. Is there a plan B should the parish succeed in not letting any of the park go and any of the trees being destroyed?
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment: Shall I answer that, Minister?
The Minister for Infrastructure: Yes, if you would.
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Yes, so in terms of a Government project, strategic projects of this nature, any land acquisition that is required, the ultimate position that we can take is compulsory purchase through the laws and powers available to us. We would hope not to get into that situation and we are very hopeful that we can have a continuing dialogue with the Parish of St. Helier to resolve some of the more minor and detailed issues that they have to enable this project to go forward. But, ultimately, the power does exist to compulsory purchase and acquire land via that route.
The Connétable of St. Saviour :
Would that also apply to the bowls people? Have you been able to find them alternative accommodation?
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
We are in dialogue, I am pleased to say, with the Bowls Club. We are looking at a number of sites. We had about 7 or 8 sites on the list for potential relocation. One of those sites has fallen away, which everyone did agree with because the landowner has not wished to part with their land. That was a shame because we agreed with it, as did the parish, as did the Bowls Club. We have got 2 or 3 other sites that we are currently in sort of land negotiations with at the moment with the owners. We are hopeful that a location will be found and it will be done in partnership with the Bowls Club. They have signed off the sort of new design of a clubhouse and what the green needs to look like, et cetera, so we are quite hopeful. Once we have got a site that the project can move forward but we will be doing that in partnership with the Bowls Club.
The Connétable of St. Saviour :
They will not be turfed off until they have got somewhere to go.
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Yes, the political position on that has been, I think, hopefully quite clear that we are working with them, so we want to relocate them to enable the road to be built. Yes, that is the position currently.
The Connétable of St. Saviour : Lovely, thank you very much.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thanks, Sadie. Just going back on to Rouge Bouillon, the roundtable discussion, which I think needs to take place, have you got a target date that you are operating to to complete this work and publish the findings? It is down to you, Tim, or the Minister to take the final decision, is that correct?
Director - Property, Jersey Property Holdings:
If I may, Minister, I think the final decision will be taken by the Council of Ministers. Clearly, it is a very broad topic. I will make my recommendation or the officers will make their recommendation to the Minister for Children and Education, Home Affairs and I.H.E. (Infrastructure, Housing and Environment). It has been a very collaborative piece of work and I have to say it is quite heartening because the J.P.H. (Jersey Property Holdings), the Public Estate Strategy that you will be aware of last year, proposed the Corporate Asset Management Board to be established. That entity is now starting to pay dividends and it was the Corporate Asset Management Board that highlighted the challenges to the Education Department from the J.H.A. development to the site and we are working together to get to a proposed solution. The Corporate Asset Management Board is working well. The officers are working in collaboration and in that environment I am sure that we will provide a potential solution which meets as many of the requirements as we can get out of the site. Hopefully, the compromises that inevitably will be required by each area will be better and manageable.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you. As a matter of interest, who sits on the Corporate Asset Management Board?
Director - Property, Jersey Property Holdings:
The chair is Andy Scate as the D.G. (director general) of I.H.E. It includes personnel from J.H.A., Chief Operating Office, Education, the Treasury, Plans and Policy, I think that is it. I will send you a definitive list and terms of reference on completion of this.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
That will be appreciated, thank you. On to your realm as well, Tim, the foreshore encroachment policy. Minister, the panel has yet to receive a formal ministerial response or indeed for one to be presented to the States. The deadline for this was 25th February, can you advise the reason for the significant delay and when you intend to present the ministerial response? This is to follow on our Scrutiny Report No. 1 this year.
The Minister for Infrastructure: Okay, Tim.
Director - Property, Jersey Property Holdings:
Yes. We are working through some of the challenges that the passing of the proposition has given us, particularly in terms of how to approach and address the number of challenges that it will result in. Currently in discussion with the Law Officers' Department and also the Law Society to work out the best approach and as soon as we have got a proposal, then we will get back to you.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you. Public toilets and disabled facilities, Minister, a member of the public has been in contact regarding the provision of public toilets on the Island and to ask whether any improvements are proposed generally but specifically with regard to the provision of facilities suitable for persons with disabilities. What is your strategy with this?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
We have good news for that. Tim, do you want to take that again?
Director - Property, Jersey Property Holdings:
Yes. We have a couple of good news stories, the Woodford car park in St. Brelade , also Le Braye. We are in the process of improving the facilities, so it is not just access to the lavatories but also the ability to work with a couple of local charities, BeachAbility and Healing Waves, to provide changing and support facilities for people to access the beaches and to be able to be sort of supported in aquatic activities. We have got money from the fiscal stimulus and we are in the process of lodging plans and working closely with the other local stakeholders, both at St. Brelade and at St. Ouen to provide a fantastic solution.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
If I may just pick up on the St. Brelade Bay proposals, which I wholeheartedly endorse, I had a communication last night from a resident suggesting there ought to be a raised table on the zebra crossing adjacent because there will be more linkage obviously between the beach and the proposed disabled facilities. Could I ask that you mention that to your road safety team because it would seem that it would be a sensible incorporation in those proposals? I am going to ask my colleagues if they have anything further to bring to this meeting. Deputy Truscott.
Deputy G.J. Truscott:
I will just go back to the road issue at the hospital, obviously, Andy, both going to planning is 2 separate applications, are you confident that they will both be ready at the same time or do you feel that because of the St. Helier intervention that there may be a slight delay in getting the plans approved going forward?
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Sure, I can answer that, Minister. The application for the main hospital will include the road, so the principal application will be for the hospital, the ancillary buildings for the hospital, including the energy centre, knowledge centre, mental health, as well as the road and car parking. The secondary applications will relate to the demolition of Overdale itself and for the re-provisioning of the former Les Quennevais School. At the moment, Deputy , the road itself will be part of the main application, so they will no longer be separate.
Deputy G.J. Truscott:
Okay, fine, thank you. But still a delay expected or not? Because the clock is ticking, so to speak.
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
No, the work on the main application is continuing and, effectively, the Parish Assembly position affects the land acquisition more than the design, if I can put it that way. We are hoping that by the time we get to the needing to acquire land we are into a situation with the parish that we can then treat from a property perspective the parish, rather than using some of the other powers that we have but we would ideally not need or want to use.
Deputy G.J. Truscott: Okay, thank you.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you. Minister, there has been a comment from members of the public that things like motor sprints and vehicle rallies are not compatible with climate sustainability. What are your views on that?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Interesting point. People are transitioning to more compliant fuels, shall we say? That Formula 1 now has Formula E, so the vehicles themselves are very, very nippy, electric vehicles. I can see a transition in the not too distant future to electric vehicles for sports, et cetera but there will always be people who do like petrol engines, et cetera. I think just an orderly transition to more compliant fuels is the order of the day and I think we just need to provide a steer to people. But I do not feel that it being draconian with events such as this is the way forward but a gentle transition. There are synthetic fuels coming on, you know about R.D. (Renewable Diesel) 100 regarding the diesel fuels. There is also a synthetic petrol coming on the market in the not too distant future, which, again, is very compliant. For people who wish to use fuel engines, I think that will be the way to go, at least for the time being but, as I say, the world is changing rapidly.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you, Minister. Linked to that and the Five Mile Road, which is traditionally the area for these things, there has been considerable concern over public parking on the Five Mile Road in the 3 parishes represented on it. What progress is the department making with regard to dealing with that, which is a difficult issue I appreciate but I understand your department is looking at how it might be resolved? What is the status, please?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
It is a difficult issue because obviously we are bridging 3 parishes there. Is Tristan still with us or is he gone? Yes, Tristan is gone, I am afraid. Andy, have you got any updates on that?
[12:45]
Director General, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
No, I think the overall position along the Five Mile Road, we have got a variety of parking solutions, if I could put it in that way. We have got some very informal ones, we have got formal car parks laid out properly with tarmac and parking regulations. We have got a lot of informal areas either on the roadside or on the verges. It is a matter of working across all 3 parishes and ourselves in trying to find a solution which sort of meets sort of the highway and transport perspective. But also bearing in mind a lot of Islanders want to go to that location to enjoy it. I have no update, apart from saying it is a tricky issue that we do need dialogue on to see what options we have got available. But the options are not going to really involve creating more car parks. It is a sensitive environmental location, it is in the National Park, so we are going to need to just make the best of what we have, I think.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Also, the way that things are going at the moment with the weather, either it is lovely and sunny or it is not, there is not much way in between. If we get a Saturday and the sun comes out and it is baking hot everybody will head to the beach. I know it causes problems for Honorary Police and the 3 parishes together. We try and take a pragmatic approach but, as Andy has said, it is a sensitive area. We do not want people parking on the verges and destroying the dune area. It is a sensitive area, we need to try and protect it, plus we need to keep everybody safe, though it is a conundrum and I know the team are working on that.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
I think it was agreed, Minister, that a yellow line would be put down and that was agreed by the National Coastal Park representatives as well. Could I ask you to urge that that be developed because it is not easy to manage at the moment and I think it needs attention? While we are on roads and, dare I say it, staying in the parish, of which 2 of us are representing here today, you will be aware of the proposed road works at La Moye which is causing considerable concern to local businesses up there and, of course, residents. There was a promulgation of a note from your department suggesting between mid-July and the end of August that the road would be completely closed. There are significant ramifications to that. Residents have yet to be furnished with the detail of the Traffic Management Plan of the proposed works. When will that be produced, Minister, because it is an enormous concern, particularly to the small businesses that will be severely affected?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
The team are working on that. They are very aware that we all want to minimise disruption to businesses and indeed residents of St. Brelade . If I hand you over to Tristan, who is also a St. Brelade resident, he may be able to fill us in on some
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
But he is the other side of the work, he is safe. In terms of numbers, you need to be aware that there are some 2,500 people living beyond the works and I know there is an option to divert down by the Five Mile Road and my particular concern is towards the small businesses, which I fear could be catastrophic for them.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
As I say, the team are looking at it to use their best endeavours to minimise any disruption there. Tristan.
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Yes. Due to the nature of the works we can only undertake them during school holidays because of the way the school pick up and drop off works, there is not enough time to get work done in that period. We are not comfortable with working outside a school when it is live, when you have got parents crossing the road, et cetera; we have got large machinery moving around. The works need to be carried out in longer school breaks, it cannot be carried out in half term, et cetera, so our options are summer holidays and Easter holidays, effectively. What we are working to do to reduce the amount of impact is we are working with the contractor now to review plans as to how much work can be taken under traffic lights, so just with a lane closure, such as kerb-working, et cetera and how we can reduce the amount of work which requires a full road closure to the minimum. We will be reporting that back to the parish and interested Deputies and, of course, the Minister as soon as it is completed. But we will be looking to split the work over 2 sets of holidays. I imagine the most likely arrangement will probably be some works this summer and then some works in Easter. But there is never a good time to undertake these works and so what we aim to do is to put in very clear diversions. The journeys that would be most affected because of the ones that are arriving at Red Houses, if you are coming from the St. Peter 's end of it or from the north of the Island because you would hit your diversion signs in Beaumont and so would turn up by Le Mont a la Brune and so would be diverted earlier on in your journey. Our calculations show that when the the roadworks will not be there on the weekends or in the evenings but in the daytime when the works are going on the diversion will be, potentially, round about sort of 5 to 10 minutes, depending on the traffic conditions.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thank you. Have you considered a public meeting, Minister, with the residents to assuage their concerns and provide some comfort as to how they will be able to get to work from their place of work or those businesses will be able to receive their clients?
The Minister for Infrastructure:
I know the team have been consulting with all the relevant businesses all the way along. Tristan
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Yes. We keep a communications log and we have been endeavouring to contact and to talk to all the businesses individually to understand their issues and on the whole we have done; I do not have an update. There is one business we are having a little bit of difficulty contacting. The people who obviously live in the area will be letter-dropped and we are looking at any means by which we might improve the communication. But I think, first of all, we need to get the up-to-date or the revised Traffic Management Plans in place and then we will be in a position to decide how disrupted this will be and how to take it forward. Of course, in the periods we are talking about traffic is generally much less, so that the diversions are not so disruptive because of the schools not operating and there is not the same level of traffic during those holiday periods. While this is a peculiar year, this is not a peculiar instance for us. Whenever we have to work on a main road it involves some disruptions and some diversion. The truth is the work needs to be undertaken, the road is in a poor condition. It is difficult for us to access to undertake reactive maintenance because of the visibility and the narrowness of the roads in those areas. It has to happen one year or another.
The Connétable of St. Brelade : Thank you. Deputy Truscott.
Deputy G.J. Truscott:
Just to be clear, I understand that you are talking about 2 tranches of work, one this year, which will be, effectively, the kerb work and that type of structure and that will be running on a light system this year and next year at Easter that you will then do the road works, am I right in understanding that?
Director - Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Environment:
Not entirely. When we met with the political representative we talked about the type of options that might be feasible. We will not know exactly what we are proposing until we finish our work with our contractor, who has just been recently appointed.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Okay, thanks. I think the concern and the suggestion I make about a public meeting is because there has not been a traffic management plan to date and it is late in the day, which is causing significant uncertainties. There is the option to carry out a meeting and a presentation down there close by should the need arise. I would suggest that might merit consideration. Minister, we have no further questions. I do not know if the Constable of St. Saviour has anything further from her point of view.
The Connétable of St. Saviour :
No, thank you, Chair, I have none, thank you.
The Connétable of St. Brelade :
Thanks very much. Thank you and your team, Minister, for your attendance this morning and presenting to us and we look forward to talking to you further in due course. Thank you very much. I close the meeting.
The Minister for Infrastructure:
Many thanks, Chair. Thank you all, bye, bye.
[12:54]