Transcript - Quarterly Public Hearing with the Chief Executive of the Government of Jersey

Public Accounts Committee

Quarterly Hearing

Witness: Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey

Wednesday, 1st February 2023

Panel:

Deputy L.V. Feltham of St. Helier Central (Chair) Deputy M.B. Andrews of St. Helier North (Vice-Chair) Deputy T.A. Coles of St. Helier South

Mr. G. Phipps

Witnesses:

Ms. S. Wylie, Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey

Mr. T. Walker , Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey Ms. C. Madden, Chief of Staff, Government of Jersey

Mr. G. Ramsden, Head of Corporate Change Delivery

Mr. M. Grimley, Group Director, People and Corporate Services.

[14:00]

Deputy L.V. Feltham of St. Central (Chair):

Hello, everybody, and welcome to this quarterly hearing of the Public Accounts Committee. Today is Wednesday, 1st February, and this is our quarterly hearing with the chief executive officer of the Government of Jersey. Before we start I would like to draw everyone's attention to the following. The hearing will be filmed and streamed live. The recording and transcript will be published afterwards on the States Assembly website. All electronic devices, including mobile phones, should be switched to silent. I would ask that any members of the public who have joined us in the room today do not interfere in the proceedings and as soon as the hearing is closed please leave quietly.

For the purpose of the recording and the transcript, I would be grateful if everyone who speaks could ensure that you state your name and role and speak clearly as nearer to the microphone as you can. If we can begin with the introductions; I will suggest that the committee introduce ourselves first and then we move to the officers. I am Deputy Lyndsay Feltham and I am chair of the Public Accounts Committee.

Deputy M.B. Andrews of St. Helier North :

I am Deputy Max Andrews , I am vice-chair of the Public Accounts Committee.

Deputy T.A. Coles of St. Helier South : Deputy Tom Coles for St. Helier South .

Mr. G. Phipps :

I am Graeme Phipps , an independent member of P.A.C. (Public Accounts Committee).

Comptroller and Auditor General:

I am Lynn Pamment, I am the Comptroller and Auditor General. I am not a member of P.A.C. but I attend P.A.C. meetings.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I am Suzanne Wylie. I am chief executive of the Government of Jersey and head of the Public Service. I will go to my left.

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey:

Tom Walker , chief officer in the Cabinet Office and Assistant Chief Executive.

Group Director, People and Corporate Services:

I am Mark Grimley, the group director for People and Corporate Services.

Chief of Staff, Government of Jersey: I am Catherine Madden, chief of staff.

Head of Corporate Change Delivery:

I am Graham Ramsden, head of Corporate Change Delivery in Modernisation and Digital.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Thank you and welcome. I would just like to draw your attention to the fact that we have 2 hours scheduled for the hearing and a few areas of questioning. Please keep answers concise and brief as possible while still answering the question. We have formatted the question areas in such a way that we can let officers leave ahead around midway, and then we will just have the chief executive in the room, as it is your hearing. I will hand over to Deputy Coles , who is going to commence the questioning.

Deputy T.A. Coles .

The previous P.A.C. published a report back in March 2022 in relation to performance management across the Government of Jersey. The report made for 40 key findings, 30 recommendations in the key areas addressed in the report as follows: OneGov I.T. (information technology) modernisation; performance management tools. This includes the recommendations tracker Jersey performance framework, which we discussed in previous hearings, and will not be part of the question plan today; customer feedback and employee satisfaction; performance management and processes of senior officers; non-Ministerial departments; non-government organisations and arm's length organisations; and overall government modernisation for the OneGov programme. One of the biggest concerns highlighted in the P.A.C. report was that the Government did not develop a single costed plan or business case for restructuring processes made through the T.O.M.s (target operating models). Although the Minister for Treasury and Resources identified that savings would be achieved there is no formal evidence to assess whether the changes represented value for money. In that regard, data shows that a number of full-time equivalent and personnel within government has subsequently grown, in particular in more senior roles between 2017 and 2021. The previous P.A.C. commented on the executive responses to the report and the legacy report recommended that the follow-up should be undertaken in relation to the recommendations within its report and associated executive response, starting with I.T. modernisation. On the basis of the OneGov I.T. modernisation, my first question is: how do you feel that the OneGov I.T. modernisation process is going?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

There are a number of elements to the OneGov modernisation process. I think sometimes people automatically go to the integrated technology solution, now called Connect, but there are obviously a number of other elements to that as well. The whole of the modernisation programme covered the modules of Microsoft Foundation and changing all of our platforms, et cetera, and making sure that all of our staff who needed access could do so using Microsoft Foundation, and obviously moving to cloud computing is really important for us in terms of making sure that we have security in that data and good access and ease of operational use as well in consistency across the board. There is also a cyber-programme as part of that. I am going to keep I.T.S. (integrated technology solution) to the end and then we will go into I.T.S., if that is all right. Important cyber-programme, which we also put significant more emphasis around earlier last year as well. Obviously cybersecurity being incredibly important to us and that programme is still continuing as per the timeline that was set out for it. In terms of a number of other areas in services, digital care strategy is part of the programme as well. That is continuing too. Then obviously service digitisation; I am going to talk a little bit more about service digitisation because I think that is an important focus for the way ahead and the future emphasis that we need to put on modernisation. Of course we had a record transformation programme as well. In terms of I.T.S. then, and then I will bring Graham in and he can give his perspective on I.T.S. as well and anything else that I have not covered potentially. Of course there are a number of phases to the implementation of our integrated technology solution and if you are in Government you would all know it as Connect now. Certainly that is the brand that is being rolled out. All the training, et cetera, has been done under Connect. Release one: we went live with release one just after Christmas. In fact, we pressed the green button, as such, on New Year's Eve to say we were going to go live with that. Of course that covers finance, Connect Finance. It covers Connect suppliers and our procurement processes as well and our inventory too. We also came forward with the first phases of Connect People, looking at learning and development and looking at performance as well. That has been ruled out at this point in time. Then we still have release 3 to go. That is about assets and about estates and about health and safety. We still have to get the business case for release 4 signed off. That will bring additionality to all of the commercial operations that the Government of Jersey is involved in. That rollout, as such, in terms of how it is going, so if I go to finance and suppliers. From go live we have put floor walkers out so that all of our users, et cetera, have someone to ask if they are having difficulty with the system. We have done extensive training, and that is still happening as more users come onboard. There are some teething problems and that is practically always the case, in my experience, with any significant change in I.T. systems. But those are being worked through. Certainly the testing before we went live was incredibly thorough and when the decision was made to go live the assurances around the tests that had been done were very high indeed to allow that to happen. There are issues with some data transfer, et cetera, but I think that was going to be the case and very often in an I.T. change system data transfer is an issue because clearly you have to have good data in the first place to be able to put that good data on the system and use the system effectively to do that. In terms of people and in terms of Connect and performance, et cetera, people are now putting their performance appraisals. I know that is something you may come and ask me about later on. But they are putting their objectives for this year on the Connect People system, finding it a lot easier to do. Certainly the feedback I have had is that it is a lot more streamlined for users to be able to use that particular process. The same with online training, et cetera, and the move away from virtual college. I think some people find the old systems clunky and not that easy to use at times. In terms of benefits realisation, it is obviously very early days to talk about benefits realisation but of course one of the main objectives for us was that we had very old systems, particularly if you think about J.D. Edwards and the finance systems. There was a high risk involved in continuing to use that system given that it was not possible to have upgrades, et cetera, to it. So of course that is important. Compliance is important as well. Making it easier for our suppliers, et

cetera. Once we work through all of the issues we need to work through and get everybody really trained up to how to utilise the system to its best effect, and also in terms of the information and data that we will have across the organisation to help us monitor that compliance but also help us to make better decisions and much better for our people to use the 2 modules that have been rolled out so far. If you are happy, I am happy to gather questions on that or if Graham has some other things he wants to add.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

It might be good to move on to the next question because I think it will relate.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: That is fine.

Deputy T.A. Coles :

What is the total spend to date arising from the OneGov I.T. modernisation projects and how does it compare to figures set out in the original outline business cases and Government Plan?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

To date, the total spend, in terms of project spend has been from all of those areas that I talked about initially, has been £62.74 million. There is an additional revenue spend associated with that, which is £19.57 million. I.T.S. within that is £41.81 million and the revenue spend is £6.32 million. That is in line with business cases. As far as I have been advised it is aligned with business cases and I am sure that Graham will confirm that. That spend has been made from 2020 to the end of 2022.

Head of Corporate Change Delivery:

That is correct, that was the spend to date; figures across all of the programmes and projects. I think if you look at comparison against the original Government Plan back in 2020 then you would see some variation in how that spend has occurred. Some of that is due to the fact that we had the interruption of the COVID pandemic. That is not to try and use COVID as an excuse but it did reframe the way that we had to deliver certain programmes. Microsoft Foundation, for example, was planned on the basis of a rollout of the entire Office 365 suite on a progressive basis over a period of a couple of years and the migration across into a cloud environment but the pandemic and the lockdown order, the stay-at-home order, immediately meant that we had to accelerate the rollout of Teams across the entire government estate to enable people to be able to communicate, to work remotely. There was a lot of other working remote activities that needed to be done there as well.

[14:15]

It has changed the profiles. Some things got consciously deferred; Suzanne mentioned record transformation programme which is effectively the digitisation of paper records. That was consciously deferred by a year to release funding for other important initiatives but in terms of expend within the entire period of the plan it remains on track.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Can I just ask in relation to the business case for release that the C.E.O. (chief executive officer) mentioned? Is that budgeted for within the existing budgets that we see in the years of the Government Plan or is that going to require additional funding?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

At the minute it is within the Government Plan. I think that the assurances, et cetera, that are needed to sign that off include looking at spend to date, et cetera; so some decisions still have to be made around that. That is why it has not been signed off yet.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

So we may see a further business case requesting more funding?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I cannot say that at this point in time. I genuinely cannot say that at this point in time. I think it is a cautious approach really that is being taken.

Deputy T.A. Coles :

As you mentioned, the Connect project is currently in the process of being rolled out across government departments. The previous committee highlighted concerns that this has not been accompanied by an overall I.T. strategy. What plans, if any, do you have to bring forward an overall I.T. strategy?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

In terms of an I.T. strategy, a technology strategic framework has been produced. That technology strategic framework was presented to the executive leadership team back in the summer of last year. It covered a number of areas. It covered digitisation, information security, technology, data, et cetera. We also looked at platforms and software and hardware as well. The approach that was recommended at that point in time was that Modernisation and Digital, of which Graham works for, would be the supporting element of that. Departments would take a leadership role in technology solutions coming forward. There has been a rethink on that approach, certainly since the new Government has come in and particularly with the role of the Assistant Chief Minister, who is responsible for Modernisation and Digital as well. As to where the responsibilities should lie, we are looking at the overall framework strategy spend, et cetera. That is going to come forward and I think it will also have ... I said I was going to talk more about digitisation of services. So it will also have much more of an emphasis and focus on digitisation of services going forward. Early work has been done on what that might entail and how we are going to go about doing that. We have set up a new working group involving the Minister, involving some outside agencies as well, to support Government in looking at digitisation of services. I feel very strongly that that is a very important thing to do because of course I.T.S. is very much about getting our own house in order and getting our own systems and platforms working well. Obviously the public want to be able to have better access to our services through the use of technology. It is expected nowadays really, is it not, that you can access things on your phone at any time of the day or night? So the digitisation of services is really important. The group itself will be looking at how to prioritise that because of course it is a significant undertaking to review and digitise all our services, so there will be a prioritisation process that will take place as well. You will see strategy coming forward. I think that that strategy will come forward quickly but the focus will be on services to the people of Jersey.

Deputy T.A. Coles :

It is noted that in December 2020 the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel recommended that an I.T. strategy be brought forward. This was then to be developed through 2021 and published in March 2022. Do we have any more of a realistic ... as we have now entered 2023, is there any more realistic timescale for when we are likely to see this strategy?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I am happy to come back to you on that because I think if I were to give you a date today that the working group that is working on this has not ... it has been looking at its terms of reference, it has not decided on a date for delivery. I believe its second meeting is ...

Head of Corporate Change Delivery: Second meeting is next week, yes.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Next week, so I would be hopeful that at that meeting they would be discussing a date for delivery. I would be more than happy to write to you as a result of that meeting and let you know what that date is.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

I was going to say, with that in mind, following that meeting could you write to us with the terms of reference for that group?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: I can.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Further details of the membership of that group and then maybe the timelines that they are working to.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Happy to do that.

Deputy L.V. Feltham : That is great, thank you.

Deputy T.A. Coles :

A final question from me is: what learnings have taken place in relation to I.T. projects after the automatic voter registration and how are you implementing this in future projects?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

In terms of automatic voter registration, it is something that I was written to about and did respond as well to say that the desire would be to do this in time for the next election. I think that was the assurance that was being sought. However, there was learning from what happened under the previous Government and that learning for me, having looked at this and reviewed what had happened, really was that the business case needs to be presented at the very outset and that there needs to be clarity in terms of roles as well. Of course, in this instance, non-Ministerial departments and Government and Modernisation and Digital were involved in all of this, but I think there needs to be absolute clarity on who is driving it. Absolute clarity in terms of M. and D. (Modernisation and Digital) being involved from the very outset to help design what that might look like. And also an S.R.O. (senior responsible officer) in place for taking that forward with timelines in place. That for me is the learning. I think that this particular issue is complicated and so understanding the complexities of producing a system like this in Jersey, something is really important from the outset. Tom, to my left here, I have asked him to take this project forward now and work with all the players involved so that we can put together a business case with the right senior responsible officer. That still has to be identified. But Tom is going to put all of the different players together in a room, and I believe you have a meeting next week, is that right? Yes. To do just that. So we can start to plan out that timeframe, what is involved. The issue at the heart of this, I am sure Tom will tell you that, is the data, the information itself, which is quite complicated to put on the system, that we can rely on. But of course it is really important and we have all seen the press coverage of the issues, for

example, credit card approvals that have been more difficult by the fact that we do not have that kind of a system. I think everybody is very committed to try and move that forward. Tom, do you want to say any more about that?

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey:

No, it is really just to say that I think some of those lessons from the first attempt at this have been well-summarised and I think it is getting that good combination of clear accountability in terms of who the senior responsible officer is but also getting a really good cross-governmental, cross- departmental approach, including the States Greffe, the Parishes, Customer and Local Services and Statistics Jersey, and others that all need to be involved in order to make progress. So getting the right combination of cross-government working but with clear accountability is going to be the key.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Given the comments that you made around the lack of data being available, within those learnings has there been any learnings around the scope of that project in relation to it either being an automatic voter registration system or potentially a centralised system to start with?

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey:

That is one of the things that needs to be addressed early on. I think in terms of what we will be talking about next week when we meet together as a group of departments, the starting position is going to be around the policy objectives in terms of the evidence and increasing voter uptake through automatic registration, making sure we understand what gain the evidence tells us we can or cannot achieve. Also understanding again the policy objective around credit card applications and what the credit card companies actually need and how best to achieve that. Those may or may not be the same thing. There may be different objectives so we need to untangle that. Then also we need to think about deliverability. The chair of P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedures Committee) has asked what is deliverable before the next election, which of course is a completely different question to what might be deliverable in a different timescale. Also we need to focus on what is deliverable between now and the next election. There are some parameters that we will need to work through in that first meeting and then take that, craft it into good joined-up advice to P.P.C. about what they might want to achieve, how they might want to achieve it, and how we can help in that.

Mr. G. Phipps :

One other question: I think you have a fair degree of confidence that you will have something in place by the time of the next election, I am hearing. Will you also have the capabilities of the public so they know how to deal with it? Is that part of the process so that it is not just there it is, but it is a way that you are confident and tested; people can use it effectively?

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey:

Probably at a future hearing you can ask me about my degree of confidence because we have not got into the detail yet. I am confident that I can get the right people together in a room, that we can look at all of these aspects and that we can give hopefully good joined-up advice to P.P.C. about what is achievable before the next election. That timescale is quite short so it is important to bear that in mind. Then of course if an improvement can be delivered before the next election then of course the user dimension of that will become incredibly important.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Maybe to clarify what I said earlier on. We realise that the time window here in terms of what can be done between now and the next election is short. That is why we are going to put time and effort into seeing exactly what can be done by then, if it is possible to do it and we can get the resources to do it, and the Government is behind it, then we will try and move it forward as quickly as we can.

Mr. G. Phipps :

You are not forgetting about the end user now, whatever you come up with?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

It is critically important, is it not? As we are going through our I.T.S. implementation that is certainly the case that the end user is so important.

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey:

Coming back to the chair's point about the central data. Of course any sort of system of automatic voter enrolment requires an underlying citizen database, which has certain characteristics to it around comprehensiveness of cover, around verification of identity, around its ability to machine match with our current voter eligibility requirements. So there are quite a few preconditions there that need to be examined, which is why colleagues from Customer and Local Services and their people directory and colleagues from Statistics Jersey that have expertise in how you join up administrative data are going to be so critical to this.

[14:30]

Then the actual technology aspect has been quite well looked at in the previous term of Government and there are different options there. But before we get to that point, that data and having a really good examination and understanding of that and what is achievable within a pre-election timetable, is absolutely critical, I suspect.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Shall we move on?

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Yes, okay, very much, Chair. Now we will be moving on to the next stage of questioning, so this will revolve around non-governmental organisations and arm's-length organisations. I just wanted to remind you, in relation to our recommendation, that is recommendation 30, which states that the Government should introduce key targets for how it works in partnership with non-governmental organisations, including key points of contact in the services for clarity and how it deals with issues and complaints. So in relation to has there been a framework that has been produced to outline the timeline and work programme for introduction and agreement of such key targets for non- governmental organisations and arm's-length organisations?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

What we have done with non-governmental organisations and arm's-length organisations is we have set up within Government our arm's length body oversight organisation or group, which is called A.L.B.O.B. (Arm's Length Body Oversight Board), to try to bring some structure to all of this. Clearly, when you look at the number of arm's-length organisations in Jersey, it is quite numerous and quite a number of different types of arm's-length bodies and non-government bodies, which range from our States-owned entities of course, where we have shareholder relationships as well, to those arm's-length bodies, which are defined within the Public Finances Manual as well. So there are about 20 altogether. Then a wide range of others. So of course all of those groups need to be treated slightly differently because the relationship is different and we have been going through those different relationships. So take States-owned entities to begin with ...

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Yes, that is fine. So in relation to when we are looking at, say, setting targets, because of course as you said there are 20 different organisations and of course those targets are going to be numerous, so how do you go about ensuring that your approaches are individual to each respective arm's-length organisation?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

So I think that last year we put in a lot of effort into this area. This takes time, as you can imagine, with so many different organisations and so many different relationships. But I think there has been a lot of effort in this area. We have developed new memorandums of understanding with each of the States-owned entities. Those have just been completed. So that has been quite a significant piece of work and we have incorporated recommendations from the C. and A.G. (Comptroller and Auditor General) into those M.O.U.s (memorandum of understanding) as well. Also building the partnership relationships too, because I think it is as important as having business plans, and each of the States-owned entities do have business plans and do present them to us, and that includes some performance measures within those. We do sign those off, et cetera, and we do look at them and we do look at their annual reports and there is an approval process there in place. However, the relationship is just as important because of course what these arm's-length bodies are really doing is they are providing services alongside Government and sometimes providing services or overseeing undertakings in a more commercial way than Government can have the freedom or flexibility to do. So that relationship we have worked on extensively as well. Because of course what we are trying to get is maximum impact from the money that is being spent.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

I think that is probably where some members of the public may have some concerns in terms of key strategic priorities that the Government have set and how they will be then delivered. Because again arm's-length organisations are decentralised away from Government. So how do you ensure that process is efficient and also how performance is then report back to Government?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I think again just to say that in the last year we have put a lot of effort into doing just that. The Government itself is very keen to do just that as well and knows it is a work in progress. I think that the alignment between the Government Plan is critically important. The alignment between the Common Strategic Policy and outcomes, but the Government Plan in particular is really important. So this year a lot of the States-owned entities have come in and presented to C.O.M. (Council of Ministers) and vice versa and the alignment in their business plans, between the Government Plan and their business plans, is something which we have had a real focus on and talking to the C.E.O.s and chairs and boards, of all of those entities. We are bringing that closer together but it is still a work in progress.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So do you believe, say, across this term of office that we will be seeing some of the arm's-length organisations seeing improved level of interdependence in terms of achieving some of the strategic objectives?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I think that is the aim of this Government to do that and I think having talked to the States-owned entities and chairs of the States-owned entities they are absolutely very willing to make sure that happens.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Yes, okay, thank you very much.

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey:

I was going to add, by way of example, the updated M.O.U. with Andium, which has been published has a whole section on the Andium objectives, and that now includes how Andium are going to contribute towards Government of Jersey policy objectives, how their objectives are going to support wider Government of Jersey objectives, and the M.O.U. now covers how their key performance indicators are reviewed each quarter, how that will be done, when it will be done, with the support of the shareholder function. So you can see that alignment and that richness of approach is there for real in the new M.O.U.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So it is probably more broader, the approach moving forward, would you say?

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey: Yes.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes. We also had a conference this year, which the Comptroller and Auditor General came along to as well, for all our arm's-length bodies. Very well attended. It was amazing to see how many there were in the room. Of course that was about trying to get more consistency in approach. That was about us trying to get into more of the space of partnership working and relationship building and making sure we were pointing in the same direction. We are setting up a number of working groups with them, which will help as well, so looking at how we work better together, looking at our frameworks, our business planning, looking at the reports, annual reports at the end of the year as well, some of the recommendations that ...

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Yes, okay, I know you mentioned about in terms of the importance of working together moving forward and I know one of the important highlights of the last P.A.C. report was about some of the inconsistencies in terms of across different organisations and A.L.O.s (arm's-length organisations) in terms of how complaints were being reported back. So what work is really being undertaken to try to improve that area that is considered to be a weakness?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

So certainly in relation to how A.L.B.O.B. has been looking at some of these areas, we have been looking at how risks are managed. I think that, in terms of complaints, there probably needs to be a more formalised process around that. I think that if there are complaints or things have come forward, which are criticisms, even in the media or whatever, there is usually a meeting arranged and that those are worked through. However, perhaps a more formalised process is something that we should be looking through with A.L.B.O.B.

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey:

Perhaps also just a reminder that within the next 12 months the Assembly will get an opportunity to consider the scope of the new Public Services Ombudsman and one of the key decisions that the Assembly will need to think about is the scope of that Public Services Ombudsman and whether it wants to draw that quite tightly or more broadly across the wider family of organisations that get involved with delivery of public service objectives.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Just move on a bit, in terms of I know we have obviously spoken about arm's-length organisations and what is the connectivity between the Government Plan and those arm's-length organisations, but do you think it could perhaps be a bit more transparent in terms of the level of progress that is being made, so the public can understand what the purpose of the arm's-length organisations are and how they are achieving some of the strategic policy aims of the Government?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I think we could be better at communicating some of that; yes, I do. And I think that certainly the process that we have started will enable us to do that a lot more effectively. I think that even between the arm's-length organisations as well, and something we found at a seminar that we held, they could be better together and they know that, at communicating. Of course there are some clusters of A.L.O.s, particularly the further you get away, so some of the grant organisations, for example, and we are trying to support some of those to come together in clusters under certain themes. For example, it could be children and young people, some of the commissioned services that are provided through A.L.O.s who come together. The economy, the A.L.O.s related to the economy for example, do meet regularly. There is a lot of learning there and to look for efficiencies there as well potentially. There is always a potential. I do agree though that, having had that seminar, obviously Ministers were involved as well, better communication would be really helpful.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Because, for instance, say if you go on the Government of Jersey's Facebook page you do not really see news feeds where arm's-length organisations are even mentioned and perhaps that could be something maybe that is introduced in future, do you believe?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Yes, I think that would be really helpful.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Yes, and is there maybe some concerns about some of the arm's-length organisations, because of course there are 20, who maybe have, say, a steeper hill to climb compared to others in terms of maybe the objectives that are being set for them and maybe some of the barriers that they also have to try to overcome?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I think the approach that we are taking is to try to work with those that have a steeper hill to climb because we want a more consistent approach. It cannot be a uniform approach of course because they are all very different. When you have listed companies and non-listed companies, et cetera, and our shareholder relationships and they are slightly different as well. So there are nuances of course in that. Part of what we are trying to do, giving them guidelines, which is something that Catherine has been working on, guidelines in terms of how to write a business plan, guidelines in terms of risk, et cetera, trying to bring everybody up to a certain standard.

Chief of Staff, Government of Jersey:

If I could just come in, so after the mini-conference we had, we pulled together feedback and we have now set up, for the moment, 4 working groups. One of the working groups is looking at shared services, so clearly there are a number of organisations that are smaller in size, so they do not have the breadth of resource to be able to deliver the way they would aspire to. So one of the working groups is going to be looking at how we can provide shared services so we get the economies of scale so that then their spend is on delivering and maintaining better outcomes. We are also looking at culture and how we get appropriate governance as well. So what governance is good for a States- owned entity or for a larger organisation just would not be appropriate for a smaller organisation. Same when they are doing their annual reporting as well, which I know the Comptroller and Auditor General has done a workshop over the last couple of years to provide some support about how they report on their outcomes, et cetera. So we have listened and we are working with organisations outside of Government to get solutions to those. So it is not us telling or saying what needs to be done, it is working and codesigning what those frameworks will look like.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So in terms of when we are looking at, say, 4 different working groups, that could be potentially quite a complex approach. So how do you ensure that everybody is on board and aware of what one another is doing?

[14:45]

Chief of Staff, Government of Jersey:

So what we intend to do, we are looking at the moment at what representation will be on the working groups, so there will be somebody who will represent a number of organisations if they are smaller. But also we are intending to do 3 workshops over this year and then again have a mini-conference at the end where we will invite everybody so they have the chance to hear what has happened but also to have their input if they have not sat on the working group.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

So there is an opportunity if you are meeting 3 times throughout the year to then reappraise things as you go along.

Chief of Staff, Government of Jersey:

Yes, which is what we did at the mini-conference. We had a number of people and a number of presenters there, but it was the feedback we got that then determined our work programme for the year.

Deputy M.B. Andrews :

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you, Chair.

Deputy T.A. Coles :

Can I just ask: you have the published memorandum of understanding with Andium, is it your intention to secure a similar thing with all A.L.O.s where possible?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

With States-owned entities it is, yes. With other A.L.O.s I think we want to have a partnership agreement really and so it feels like this is what you expect from us, this is what we expect from you, this is what Islanders expect, et cetera, so it feels more like that kind of a framework, if that makes sense.

Deputy T.A. Coles :

Do you intend for these to be made public?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I think that is probably something we need to work through with each of the bodies. We need to work that through with them just because obviously we are trying to agree a partnership approach. But it comes to the point I think that you mentioned about communications and the key is that we find a way to communicate as much of those as possible.

Assistant Chief Executive, Government of Jersey:

Many agreements with the bodies are already published, particularly with a lot of the regulatory bodies. So my department has a framework agreement with the Office of the Children's Commissioner, with the Care Commission; they are already published and already out there. So it is a matter of working through the correct form of documented agreement for the right type of body. And then in most cases they should be capable of being published and indeed, in many cases, are already published.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Thank you. Shall we move on to the next question?

Mr. G. Phipps :

Sure, thank you. I would like to switch a little bit and talk a little bit now about people strategy. The prior P.A.C., of which I was a member, made some recommendations to ensure communication of a people strategy and implementation, the effectiveness of that. So that is the direction of my questions. I have in front of me here a little document, so very nice. Can you confirm whether all of the employees have access to the finalised and agreed-to people strategy and how are you ensuring that the people at your organisation understand it?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

The people strategy is really important to me. When I came into the role at first I did put a significant emphasis on the people strategy and rolling it out and its implementation and really the content of what the people strategy is all about and particularly the values. That offer between Government and its employees and vice versa. For me, getting that balance right between performance and motivation and well-being and how staff feel about working for the Government of Jersey and also what that means in terms of recruiting staff too. Because of course we want to be an organisation of choice when it comes to recruitment. So it is fundamental to all of those things. Those 4 blocks that I have in front of me, to make sure I remember, about people's experiences and about their development and learning, is really important, and how they feel about the organisation as well. Also we want to take them to a place where they have aspirations, so they understand - absolutely understand - their roles and they understand how those roles fit within the priorities that are being delivered as well. So that is that look to the future. So you asked me questions about do they all know? Well first of all, over 400 staff were involved in pulling the thing together in the first place and even before day one, I think, looking at Mark, with the interim chief executive had a webinar for all staff, a big focus on the people strategy during that webinar as well, we continue to roll out all of the messages about the people strategy. We have had an Our People Conference recently. Mark, was that the summer we had that?

Group Director, People and Corporate Services:

Yes.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Where we had all the departments involved, where the people within the departments came along and showcased to others within the organisation what they were doing to implement the people strategy and they all picked slightly different themes. So it may have been a certain department focused on workforce planning, for example what they were doing in workforce planning. Another department may have been looking at what they were doing in business partnering, for example, and how well that was working. It was a fantastic conference. I was really impressed. You could feel the energy in the room and you could feel that staff felt really proud of some of the things that they were delivering. Of course we are always communicating through all our learning and development programmes, which are all part of the people strategy as well, whether that is the espresso sessions that we have or whether that is the worldclass manager sessions that we have. So there is a communications plan for this. You asked me did all staff have access to it. I am going to ask Mark whether that is the case that all staff have access to it. Certainly all staff should have heard about it and know what it is going to deliver and certainly have touched parts of it, absolutely should have touched every part of the organisation. They may not have put the people strategy label on it, but certainly they will have been involved in certain aspects of it.

Group Director, People and Corporate Services:

The simple answer is yes, it is a public document, it is published under Working for the States on the government website. We, in our communications planning grid, cross-reference the 4 elements of why we are doing certain things. So what the strategy has given us is the ability to flag why we are doing something. There was a real dissonance of people understanding why things were happening within Government, so did they recognise this was about improving their experience, acting on feedback, is this about their development, is it about culture. So those 4 elements within the strategy are now tagged against everything that we do, it has an internal identity, it is not an external brand, and each of the areas that we work in, so for example if we look at performance management, we have just rolled out with People Connect a new performance management system. Within that we have embedded our values, we have embedded professional development, and that is part of the people strategy, so we have used the same language throughout. The worldclass manager looks at the importance of diversity and inclusion. Through the employee experience groups we ask the D. and I. (diversity and inclusion) to come in and talk to the worldclass manager cohorts, so they get real stories and that has been very, very powerful. So we are trying to cross- pollinate a lot of the activities that we do to get bigger bang for our buck.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Can I just ask: you have obviously got the largest workforce in the Island and there would be a diversity of types of job. So how confident are you that, across all of those sectors of the workforce, there is that understanding? I am just thinking about the people who may not be online as part of their day job. You mentioned the webinar. Were there any areas of the workforce that you felt maybe were not reached or that you are particularly concerned about? How inclusive do you think the approach has been?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

My personal view is that it has been really inclusive because not only do we have the online things that we have referenced but also a lot of face-to-face events as well and the worldclass manager, for example, that you mentioned and what I call the first-stage manager, so the first supervisor level as well, and the programmes around all of that. I have tried to be as visible as I can and going to those sessions where we give awards to people who have gone through the programmes, et cetera, under the people strategy framework, our Stars awards that we did for people from right across the organisation, from every part of it and every level, were involved in that process, all under the people strategy. Even if they were not shortlisted at the end of the day a lot of people were put forward and shortlisted within their own departments and through that process were very much involved in people strategy work as well. Of course our well-being programmes and our diversity programmes are rolled out right across the organisation as well and they are bottom-up, a lot of them. So it is not all top-down. A lot of them come from networks that have been set up across the organisation, run by people across and at all levels within the organisation.

Mr. G. Phipps :

That leads nicely into my next question because it is one thing to put it out there, it is another to find out if it is working. So what processes are in place to ensure that employees are given the opportunity to raise questions in a non-threatening way to them about the potential concerns they have with the implementation of this people strategy? So what is your feedback loop and how does that work?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Okay. So I guess the first feedback loop is always through line management, and that is always available for anyone. Of course we try to cascade messaging out through the whole line management tree and of course it is supposed to be a 2-way process and genuinely we do, I think, have a culture that does welcome that feedback from any individual who wants to raise issues, positive or concerns, et cetera. Obviously we have had the Be Heard survey and that was done before I came into post. The plan is to have another Be Heard survey in the springtime and we will be asking a lot of questions around people strategy implementation, roll-out, et cetera, and other aspects of what the experience is for employees as well. We do have, in different parts of the

organisation, different ways for people to raise issues. You will have heard in Health that we recently appointed a freedom to speak up guardian for any staff who wanted to raise concerns, and so that person has just recently started. Mark, turning to you to see whether or not I have missed anything because I am sure I have.

Group Director, People and Corporate Services:

We have got that, so the face-to-face sessions have been really important, so we have been doing local roadshows.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: With lots of questions and very free-flowing.

Group Director, People and Corporate Services:

Yes, so we do stands in the places that we have never done stands before. We have gone out into the organisation. We are getting into our traction here. It is still some way to go because people do not recognise that we are coming along, it is not regularised enough. We had some really good sessions where we stood at the front of the hospital through the staff entrance and introduced them to the people strategy and what was going on. Wider there we had about 1,000 people come to the Our People Development Conference that we had, which was the first time that we held it. We held it over 2 days to make sure that people who worked shifts, people who were on normal days, could go to it, including an evening session. We have started to think about how different people work. The staff network groups are also great at speaking up, so where people do not feel that they can speak up, the staff network groups are their voice. We call them a challenger group; they are not just our network groups. I will give you an example of that, which is recently with some colleagues from the executive leadership team and members of the Reach community, who are the minority representative groups in the organisation, we undertook a workshop called Safe Space. This is an established practice where members of the executive meet with members of staff and they have a safe space to talk, share their stories, and as part of our diversity strategy we run workshops of real- life stories and they have been really impactful with managers because they are stories that are coming from Jersey. It is not just your D. and I. training where people just go: "Here is a scenario", it is real stories that we have gathered from staff and we roleplay it. It has been quite impactful. So we are showing people that by speaking up we can advocate for them and show their experiences in a safe way. I think that will continue to grow. It has been a very effective way of doing it.

Mr. G. Phipps :

I guess as far as understanding and measuring and tracking this, your big questionnaire will be the first time you can compare and contrast where you were before and where you are now in a measured way. Are there any other measurement techniques you have to track your people strategy implementation beyond the questionnaire?

Group Director, People and Corporate Services:

We do track and participation in those programmes is increasing. So we have over 500 employees in the staff networks now and that was from a standing start 2 years ago with about 20 who were in the I Will network. We had a record number of people participate in the staff awards, to the point where we ran secondary awards in local departments to give more recognition. We are seeing an uptake in the performance management appraisal system and it is going to get a lot easier with the new one that we have.

[15:00]

We are monitoring sickness. At the moment, sickness is a statistic that we are looking at because it will show some disengagement there, particularly stress and anxiety. We are doing some specific work on that. We look at the employment tribunals that come through, so particularly around disability and ethnicity, they seem to be the large number of tribunals. Again, we do not have a huge number, but they seem to be a consistent pattern. So it is not about contractual issues, it is about how we are treating people. So we use a whole metric ...

Mr. G. Phipps :

So you will have a number of numerical calculations and tracking that you can look to and see what the trends are and whether you are going in the right direction or not.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

S.E.B. (States Employment Board) is very interested in that as well. They have adopted the values too that are in the people strategy and are very keen that they get feedback from all of those measures on a very regular basis as well.

Mr. G. Phipps :

So I can see that you are very proud of the work that has been done and I commend you on that. What are your top 2 or 3 highlights that you are most pleased with the implementation and what are the biggest challenge areas that you face in this top 2 or 3?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I think highlights, in terms of the implementation, because I have been out visiting staff in almost all parts of the organisation and so I have been asking them for their general feedback as well. I still have one or 2 to go to. But highlights for me I think are just the level of involvement that I can see. The level of involvement particularly when it comes to those areas of recognition, because everybody wants to be recognised for a job well done, do they not, because that motivates you to go on and do more? So the level of involvement and the experience that I have had in going to some of those sub-awards areas where shortlisting, et cetera, was done, people are feeling so proud of what they have achieved and getting some recognition is really important to them. So that has really struck me. Also the various diversity networks that are so strong and that have been built up. I have already picked 3, if that is okay. Volunteering as well. We have also rolled out a volunteering programme over the last year and that balance between volunteering in your own time and us being able as Government to say there is some time available through Government for you to do that I think, in Jersey, that is really important. It is what so many people do and want to give their time to and of course we are all about that partnership working, are we not? So I think that has been really positive as well.

Mr. G. Phipps : Challenges?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I was going to come to challenges. So of course I think you have mentioned some of the challenges. Keeping this alive, keeping it something that, if you are an employee, you can touch and feel and it feels real and will continue to feel real to you that we really mean this and are committed to it and that it is not seen as something which is just a nice document with a few values on the side of a mug, for example. It has to feel real and I think that takes continued commitment. So it is making sure that we have that continued commitment to keep driving this through. Because we are not there yet. Of course when we have our Be Heard survey there will be challenging things I am sure that will come out of that Be Heard survey and we will have to address those and we will have to use these strategies and stick with them to keep pushing this forward to address those issues.

Mr. G. Phipps :

I think you have raised a very important point. It is one thing to communicate; it is another thing to educate and discuss about it and listen; but the most important thing is what resulting actions happen as a result of all this. How do you track that? How do you share that? How does that become the most positive aspect of this as the continuous improvement part of it?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes. That was really why we used stories I guess. So when we used, in the People Conference, some of the people who had been involved to tell their story to others so that it felt real to them, it was not just me standing up at the top of the hall speaking to them and promoting this. It was them.

Mr. G. Phipps :

So stories about what happened different because they came forward; is that what you are saying?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: What has changed, yes, exactly.

Group Director, People and Corporate Services:

Chair, can I just give one other challenge, and I think it is about our reputation as an employer. The Chief Minister has published her plan, it is one of her top priorities, it leads on to keyworker housing, but people wanting to come and work for the Government in the first place is a really important thing. The majority of people are really proud of working here. We still have quite a lot of work to do around reputation of the employer. So last year we ran internships and we had 30 young people who were at university come back to the Island. All of them said that they opened their eyes to public service. We are doing apprenticeships now to bring people in at entry level. We are also doing return-to- work for teachers, for nurses, and on-Island activities. Now they will not be successful unless we have a good reputation as an employer. In the main we are a very good employer, we offer a good package, we offer support and development, and there is a lot of opportunity within the Government. There are sometimes stories that will come out that are out of context or looking at some numbers, sometimes feel like that is a different narrative, but when you put it into context there is a lot more that is explained there. So I think the majority of our staff are quite content, they are proud of what they do. Do they connect with us as an employer? Not always and that is some work to be done. But I also think that all of us have an opportunity to show the good work that goes on in Government and how value-based most people are.

Mr. G. Phipps :

One last area of questioning on a related people area is the recently-announced turnaround team for H.C.S. (Health and Community Services). What were the terms of reference for this performance enhancement team?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Just before I answer that, because one of the other challenges for me, and it relates to the question you have asked me, is getting the basics right as well. So the basics in terms of recruitment that Mark mentioned, retention in the organisation, dealing with issues where there are concerns of staff, dealing with employee relations issues, et cetera, to managing any cases. All of those things that we really need to get right, and I will probably come back and talk about the rigor in the organisation as well later on in this hearing. But in terms of the change team, in H.C.S., so the change team were brought in to support the teams in H.C.S. obviously after the Hugo Mascie- Taylor report came out. After that report came out, you will remember that the Minister for Health and Social Services

responded and said there were a number of themes that needed improvement. Those themes ranged from good governance and setting up a board, which was one of those recommendations, to really changing the culture in the organisation. Also looking at clinical standards and looking at workforce planning as well. I am not going to go through all of them. Those are a number of them. A lot of work to do and of course there have been a number of reports, other reports have been done previously in Health highlighting things like maternity services and theatre usage and the C. and A.G. has also produced a number of reports as well. So there is a lot to do there. So the idea of having a change team to support was to provide additional expertise, to help move that forward in a proper, programmed way, and at pace, with the teams in H.C.S.

Mr. G. Phipps :

I understand that team is reporting directly to you so there would be no conflict of interest or concerns about different levels within H.C.S., they would be able to speak freely and openly to you; is that correct?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

That team is reporting to me and Tom is supporting me in that work as well and that includes the freedom to speak up guardian team.

Mr. G. Phipps :

So what are your associated costs of this and what anticipated benefits do you hope to get and the timing when they will come back and so it is not an ongoing for everything?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I know, absolutely. So the team are in place for a year and of course we have the expertise in that team, which covers leadership, which covers finance, which covers clinical and clinical governance, et cetera, as well, and H.R. (human resources). So that is important that we have those skills to look right across the board and to pool all of the assessments that they do together and produce a significant plan for change. That is being worked through right now as we speak. So they are there for a year and however I do think that the full change programme will take longer than a year but they will be here for a year to make sure that things are kept ...

Mr. G. Phipps :

This specific initiative is for a year?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes, and to make sure that the action plan is in place, that it is agreed, and that the actions are kicked off and are running well. You know how long it takes to change culture, it takes a long time, it is not always possible in a very short space of time. But of course we will have a board in place during this year as well and that board is to provide the right level of assurance and governance. Of course that board will then take on some of that responsibility going forward as well. So that is the plan. In terms of money, the whole plan for change, there was £1.5 million put into the Government Plan for this change programme. That was set out by the Minister.

Mr. G. Phipps :

Thank you. The terms of reference, are they going to be published, is this something that people will see what is going on? How familiar is the public with this initiative and the scope and how this is playing out?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

So we just appointed the remaining members of the team within the last week or so and we did put out a statement on those members of the team last week, at the end of last week, and what they are here to do. We will continue to communicate with the public on what is happening and I think it will be a constant feed. I know, for example, the Minister for Health and Social Services is very keen to have a patient panel put in place and she is working away on terms of reference for that. So, as those things come forward, we will certainly be communicating with the public. Because of course this is about confidence in the health service. That is what we are trying to establish.

Mr. G. Phipps :

I would encourage you to get as much of this out in public, this is the terms, this is the objectives, this is the timing, because there is a lot of angst out there. Thanks.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Thank you. I think now is an appropriate time to mention that the committee is mindful of the recommendations that were made very recently by the Comptroller and Auditor General in her deployment of staff resources in health review. We have chosen to escalate the request to the executive response to yourself. We look forward to receiving that response and we will follow that up at a later date in another hearing as we do take these matters very seriously.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes, that is understood. Of course Tom has been working with me significantly on this and also the change team, so I would be including them in helping me develop that response.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Okay, thank you. At this point I am also going to thank all of the other officers for attending today and invite them to leave the room as the following question areas we are going to direct directly to the chief executive officer. Okay, the reason why we have asked the other officers to leave the room or the table is that these question areas specifically relate to the appraisal of chief officers and how you are going to lead your leadership team and set their objectives. We felt that those are really questions that you need to answer as chief executive officer.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: That is fine, yes. That is absolutely fine.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

For the benefit of the public listening in, could you briefly outline the current line management appraisal processes and accountability structure for the chief officers please?

[15:15]

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

So I have 12 direct reports and 9 of those are chief officers. The others are tier-2 posts who report into me, so they are all line-managed by me. Of course in terms of Ministerial direction, I am making sure that relationship works really well. That is really important to me. Of course each Minister of a department has a chief officer and you will hopefully see in the next day or 2 each of the Ministerial delivery plans being published. This golden thread, and I know that is something that you have talked about previously, between Corporate Strategic Policy, Government Plan, coming through into Ministerial delivery plans, which are much more Ministerially-led than old business planning processes were. That is what, in terms of the Ministerial plans themselves, and the objectives within those, that is what I will be holding the chief officers accountable for delivering. Also there are some cross-cutting Government initiatives, et cetera, that they are involved in or that I have asked them to step up and be a senior responsible officer for. Also the organisational rigour and I did say I would come back to that. So the organisational, the basics within the organisation, the capabilities, et cetera, that have to be there and that we have to get right. So of course each of those officers and others, we have an accountable officer framework in place, and we also have a scheme of delegation as well. So there is a scheme of delegation from the States Employment Board, for example, to me in relation to staffing issues. That then is also then delegated to responsible officers as well in terms of the Public Finances Manual too with the P.A.O. (principal accountable officer) role, but also the accountable officer's role being really clear about what that is. So every year I issue an A.O. (accountable officer) letter to each of the accountable officers, it is happening right now at this time of year, outlining exactly what their responsibilities are in the Public Finances Manual. So they get that every year and every year they have to provide assurance statements as well. In addition to that, they set their objectives every year. So in the last month, January, I have sat with all of my direct reports and worked through their appraisals from last year and their objectives and development needs, et cetera, for this coming year. That will all be put on the Connect system and it will be that system that we will use. In addition to that this year, because having looked at some of the recommendations that have been made, I have started a process that is just a start because you have talked about 360 degree appraisals, et cetera, I am in favour of doing that, but to start this year, because of the Government, et cetera, each Minister has now been asked a number of questions about their chief officers and they are responding to me as part of that process with a view to looking forward, improvements, et cetera, that should be put in place.

Mr. G. Phipps :

Just for clarity there, so you are looking at an upwards feedback and a lateral feedback as part of the process.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

For 360, it will be over time, unfortunately I did not have time to do that this year. Because of the Government planning process, et cetera, to get those objectives right, the Ministerial delivery plans, it is really important that we have those to get those objectives right, et cetera, so that we could put that in place. But, yes, that is the plan. I do not intend to wait until next year to do that. I intend to do that during the year, look at how we can do a really streamlined, effective, process for 360 appraisal. I think that is really important.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

So with regard to how the appraisal is undertaken, just let me get a bit of a flavour about what that would entail.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Okay, so what happens is that the chief officer will fill in a template, which will have their objectives on it, and they will do a self-assessment of what they feel their performance against those objectives are. They will also talk about any challenges that they have in meeting those objectives and they will also talk about any development needs that they feel need to be considered as well. In addition to that, this year I have also asked them to give me a statement that there is assurance around what they have been doing through into their direct reports as well and right down through their departments. So, for example, that they have done the appraisals and they are setting objectives with their direct reports and vice versa and that all of the Connect people appraisals have been put on the system at the right times and also assurances around health and safety and risk management and safeguarding, et cetera. So that is something new that I have introduced this year and that has to come along with their self-assessment as well. So, in other words, they are accountable for ensuring that happens within their part of the organisation. They sit down with me. I have sat down with almost them all, there is just one outstanding, and this time I will have the feedback as well from

the Ministers too. We will go through that. I will question them on this, I have some challenges at times as well. I do have someone to support me to take some notes as well, I have agreed that with them, because I think in the past that has been an issue because with 12 direct reports it is really hard to do this in a really effective way and get the thing written up and to make it really useful. So I have developed some support around that to allow me to do that. They also bring with them to the meeting their previous business plans and the targets from the business plan so that we can see that line of sight between their objectives, their measures, and what it said in the departmental business plan as well. Again, going forward, I want to get much more effective with that process too. So in my delivery hub, which we will talk about when it comes to Cabinet officers, is supporting me with doing some pre-analysis of some of those performance measures before we go into the appraisal processes as well. So it is streamlined, more streamlined for me makes it more effective, makes it more streamlined for the chief officer as well when they come into their appraisal. Then I give them some feedback as to what my perspective is, what I think about their performance, and then I write it up and that is recorded on the system. If there is development or there is improvement we agree that together and obviously there is congratulations if they have done a great job as well. Also a recognition too that this year, for example, the Island has been through such terrible tragedies and certainly a lot of people across Government have really stepped up to the plate and will continue to do that to support families across this Island. So a recognition of some of the things that sometimes come in and that you have to turn your attention to and it is not always possible to keep absolutely everything on track.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

With regard to objective-setting, you used the words "they set their objectives". What parameters are used to set those objectives within?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

That was maybe just a figure of speech. The objectives are set and agreed with me. So they will come with a draft set of objectives to me and then we will agree them together. But those objectives have to relate to the Ministerial priorities, the Government Plan priorities, and also to the things that they feel are important or that I feel are important for them to develop. So, for example, if one of their development needs is that they need to be closer to the customer to understand the customer, then there may be a project that I might want them to work on, I would suggest that they would work on, that would allow them to do that and would allow them to develop those particular skills. So it is that kind of conversation. But ultimately that golden thread is really important and I am not just saying that because it was in your reports. I have always believed that, that their objectives need to meet the Ministerial priorities.

Mr. G. Phipps :

Is it clear that they would act and do the same that you are doing with them with their counterparts and this mechanism, this process should be followed all the way through the organisation?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes, I think that is clear. Is there enough rigour in all of that? Not yet. It does vary across the organisation. You have some small departments, some big departments, some departments with lots of staff who are very operational. So it can vary across departments. But the premise is yes. The States Employment Board are very focused on this as well, is that we have objectives for all of our members of staff going forward and that every member of staff has a conversation with their line manager. I think that is very clear.

Mr. G. Phipps :

But I think you covered a lot more than just that in your discussion and I would hope that they would do the same.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I did. Yes, and of course the statement that I have asked them to provide me with, that assurance that they are doing that with their direct reports, is now with that in writing and ...

Mr. G. Phipps :

360 and all these other things, you are looking at the same kind of thing for all?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes. Of course you can do very complicated 360s or you can do very simple ones, so simple is better.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Given obviously the status of the people that you are line-managing, how would you handle if there were any issues around performance? What steps would you take as their line manager to manage issues around performance and if they are not meeting their objectives?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Of course the first thing that I do is to find out has it been clear enough what the expectation is or what the timeframe for delivery is and particularly what the Ministerial expectations are or whether that is the States Employment Board expectations, for example. So I am factoring all of that into my conversations with them. Of course then I would ask them for an agreement that they would reprioritise a particular area that perhaps did not have the attention that it deserved given the Ministerial priorities and focus. Then ask them to come back again. So I meet my direct reports at

least once a month and so it is an ongoing process. Even though we have built in review stages, formal review stages each quarter with them, and again I have tried to streamline this that every quarter there is an overview of where we are with all of the objectives. Every half year it gets a bit more detailed and at the end of year even more detailed again. That is the way that I am going to do things going forward. If that does not improve then of course I am likely to put something in writing to say that is the expectation and that happens and also have conversations with a Minister, for example, as well if it is quite a priority. Then other procedures that are open to me are capability procedures, et cetera. That is where of course the procedure in Government of Jersey is that is to put support mechanisms in to make sure that the person has every opportunity and the right resources available to them to make the changes that are necessary. I have not done that as yet. I certainly have had conversations about areas where I did not think the focus is as good as it should be. Also conversations about where there are real difficulties at times, so it might be a resourcing difficulty, it might be an inability to recruit staff, so there are issues then that the Government, that I, that the whole team need to take on and look at as well as some of those performance conversations that are had. Again it is not simple and straightforward.

[15:30]

You are right about the level of staff, because of course the expectation is that at that level people perform and they want to perform. By and large that is what I find. Of course I want to motivate them to work as a team, as a whole executive leadership team, and that is really important to me, because I do not think one person can solve all the problems that there are. I think they need help and support from others as well to be able to do that.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Just to take on Graeme's point around appraisals and that approach filtering down, do you see that the same approach would filter down with regard to capability performance management all the way throughout the organisation?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes, I do and I think that probably - and we have talked about this at the States Employment Board as well - we do need to look and reissue all of the policies and the procedures, et cetera, again. I think we do need to look at some of those policies to support some of our managers to take those things forward again.

Mr. G. Phipps :

How flexible are you with respect to these specific objectives and plans for a year? For example, when C. and A.G. comes out with a report that points to a number of areas it may cause you to have another kind of agreement. Is it flexible enough to change priorities during the year? Is this a process you do quarterly where you would revisit it or immediately if necessary?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes, absolutely. Again, the tracker is part of the issue that I would ask for assurance on as well and of course the recommendations from C. and A.G. and also from P.A.C., et cetera, are on that tracker. If there is something related to that particular chief officer that should be highlighted. Of course that is why I need a bit of support to help me to have the right things in front of me.

Mr. G. Phipps :

But there is clarity but also flexibility, if you have to advise it, but then a process where you agree on the change.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Yes, absolutely, there is flexibility.

Mr. G. Phipps :

I am just trying to understand.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes, because there has to be, things change throughout the year, do they not?

Mr. G. Phipps : Yes, fair enough.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

I am mindful of time, so I am going to move on to your own line management as chief executive officer. A previous P.A.C. recommendation noted that the C. and A.G. had recommended that a formal policy should be documented in respect of the line management of the C.E.O. As you are an employee yourself, we note that a revised scheme of delegation in formal policy for the line management of the C.E.O. was formalised in the summer of 2021, however, this has not yet been published. Can you explain the key elements of the policy and the reason why this is yet to be published?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I do not know the answer why it has not yet been published, so I would need to obviously check, however, with the S.E.B.

Deputy L.V. Feltham : Yes.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Just give me a second so I find the right 5(a), good, it is all tabulated. What has been produced is a formal employment procedure and what that procedure covers or it really issues around conduct and behaviour and performance compliance and if complaints are made on how those would be treated, so that is what it covers.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

We can bring the S.E.B. in separately to discuss that further.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Okay, yes, all right.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

One of the previous P.A.C.'s comments in relation to the response was that the position does not explicitly address the appraisal process of the chief executive. What consideration has been given to addressing this concern and do you have an appraisal process in place that you are taking part in?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Okay. In terms of my appraisal, so I guess since this Government came in in July the performance of Government and of me and my chief officers has been something that has been an ongoing discussion from day one. I think that the Chief Minister and all the Ministers have made it really, really clear what their expectations are from me in running the public service but also in delivering priorities that they have set. Of course that started with the 100-day plan as well very, very early on and then of course coming forward with the Government Plan itself and all of the delivery plans as well. Objective-setting has been a constant discussion between the Chief Minister and myself and we meet every week at least to discuss performance, so that every week that discussion is in relation to performance, in relation to those priorities, in relation to the rigour of the organisation and in relation to delivery. In terms of taking that to K.P.I.s (key performance indicators) that is still a work in progress and that will be completed by the end of this month.

Deputy L.V. Feltham : Okay, thank you.

Mr. G. Phipps :

Will it become public? Will you be able to talk to and share with the people of Jersey at a macro level?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I guess that is a conversation that the Chief Minister and I are likely to have, and I guess it is going to be useful to the public really. If it is at a macro level that maybe makes more sense but obviously the Chief Minister and I will discuss that.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Just moving on to the legislative changes that are required around C. and A.G.'s recommendations on the employment of the chief executive.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Yes.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

What is the timetable for their implementation?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I do know that, it is obviously in the S.E.B. plan to bring this forward and C.O.M. plan to bring this forward as well. I am aware that a paper is being produced on this to be discussed on 20th March; that is the first stage of it.

Deputy L.V. Feltham : Okay, thank you.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Then they will have to decide on the timeframe after that.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

I am sure we will also have many questions for the S.E.B. related to those issues as well.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: I am sure you will.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Thank you. We are going to move on now to talk about the implementation of the Cabinet Office and associated organisational structure. Before we do that, can we confirm if there have been any redundancy processes open during the last quarter of 2022 or any redundancy processes currently in place?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

When you say "open", do you mean a voluntary redundancy process or

Deputy L.V. Feltham : Any, yes.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Any, okay.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Including voluntary redundancy processes, yes.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

No government-wide processes of that kind of nature have been open in that way. The only redundancy process that has happened is in relation to the chief operating officer through the restructuring of the bringing together of the Cabinet Office.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Okay. Can you confirm what the current status of that restructure is?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

It is in consultation, so there are a number of phases to that. The first phase is the management tier and that is in the consultation period of the 30 days, that any individual who is significantly affected has a one-to-one consultation process. We are still in that period, nearly at the end of it. Within a matter of days that will be completed and then we will look at the feedback that we have got from that. In relation to the chief operating officer, he chose to move forward and be ahead of the completion of that consultation period.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

You are confident that that decision and those actions are fully compliant with the organisation of the change of policy.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: That is certainly what I have been advised.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Perhaps there might be some further questions to the S.E.B. around that.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Okay.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Can you briefly outline the key objectives for the establishment of the Cabinet Office?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes, absolutely. You will remember that the whole concept of the Cabinet Office came about through the report that was done on democratic accountability and governance, that group recommended that a Cabinet Office would be something that should be taken forward. This Government, when they came into being, it was one of the recommendations or actions within the 100-Day Plan, so very early days it was considered for this Government that they wanted to set up a Cabinet Office. The idea and the purpose behind it is really to better co-ordinate the work of Government, better co- ordinate what happens between departments, better to strengthen the decision-making of Government and to help speed up translation from decisions and policy into delivery; that is the overall purpose of it. Also, to help support building that better trust and confidence in Government as well by getting those things done more quickly. Also, we talked arm's length bodies earlier on to have that better coherence of the partnerships that we are involved in across the Island.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

You talked a bit about the anticipated benefits to the general public in increasing confidence, are there any other benefits that the general public may see through the implementation of the Cabinet Office?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes, I think absolutely there will be. One of the things I mentioned earlier on was this delivery unit and the delivery unit is really to do just that. It is to try and take the decisions of Government and very often decisions about things, about problems, for example, that we are facing. If you think about accommodation for key workers, for example, is a particular issue that we are facing at the minute. If that is a cross-government issue cannot just go into one particular department to solve it, it needs a number of departments to come together, that this unit will help to do that and will help to kick that off and drive it and programme-manage the delivery of the solutions to those problems forward. I think Islanders will see those things happen more quickly than they have in the past.

Mr. G. Phipps :

Ultimately, it will show up in the key performance indicators of the Government, how it is tracked.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Absolutely, yes.

Mr. G. Phipps :

If this thing is working we should see results there.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Yes, absolutely.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

How exactly do you foresee the implementation of the changes will ensure greater efficiency and effectiveness of the services? I think, as Islanders, we have heard quite a lot about improvements or promises of improvements of efficiency and effectiveness before, obviously we have had the OneGov model previously. What sets this apart and makes it different? What will we see as a result?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I think what you will see as a result is very much more a focus on the real issues, if that makes sense. For example, the Cabinet Office and the joining up of the various departments that are being brought together to really make sure that there is a focus on what those Government priorities are and getting them done and getting them delivered but also helping departments to do that. It is not just centre of Government that sits in splendid isolation, it is about centre of Government that helps the rest of the organisation to perform. Take children's social care, for example, the policy unit, the communications unit, the delivery hub, getting around the improvements that are needed there and helping to support those improvements and bringing programme-management support in, any additional resources needed to move those things forward. I think you will see improvements in services happening in a much quicker way, particularly in areas where it has been hard to solve some of the problems for a period of time. Some of those problems are recruitment and retention problems, for example. We are thinking in the Cabinet Office of really innovative ways to try and address some of those problems, so it is not just left up to the individual services to do that.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Okay, thank you. I appreciate that you are still in some consultation in relation to the Cabinet Office but at this point

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes. If it was next week I could tell you a little bit more.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

At this point in time can you indicate what the anticipated total headcount within the Cabinet Office is going to be and what the roles involve?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I cannot because of course the way this process is working is that we are looking at the line- management tier and that, first of all, that is phase one.

[15:45]

Phase 2 then is to look at the individual services within Cabinet Office and to look at the capabilities in particular of those services and the capacity of those particular services. Of course within that you have got people services, you have got communications, you have got Ministerial support, you have got Modernisation and Digital in there as well. The next stage is to get into and the way I certainly want to do this is in terms of how we should go about change programmes involving those staff in that process, as well as to how we are going to improve the capabilities and capacity across those particular services and make sure they are really fit for purpose for what we are saying this Cabinet Office is going to do.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Just for clarity as to where we are at the moment with the Cabinet Office is being set up; the leaders will be appointed first?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: That is correct.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

There are not any appointed people within the Cabinet Office at this point in time.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

What we did initially with the departments and services that were coming together was basically to draw a line around those services and say you are now in the Cabinet Office, that the Cabinet Office exists but knowing that there was going to be changes coming down the road. The Cabinet Office exists so the people working at the next tier to me are certainly part of the Cabinet Office as it stands, so that it is changes to their actual potential roles and jobs, not all of them but some of them.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Okay, thank you. I understand that is quite a bit of change within that area, so how are you, as C.E.O., leading on those changes?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

That is really important, it is really important that I do show that level of leadership for change. I think it has been helpful having the support of the Council of Ministers to do that. They want this to happen, that is really, really helpful. Also, it has been difficult as well and challenging because of course the Cabinet Office is made up of a lot of the support services that would normally be supporting me and taking forward a change. It has taken probably a lot more of my personal time than some of our changes may have. But that is what is needed and so that is what I have done. I found support from other parts of the organisation here and not conflicted who can help me to do it.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

The committee was mindful of a previous P.A.C. recommendation about when a need for restructuring or modernising Governments is identified, the changes should always be accompanied by a baseline for change of business case. Can you outline the processes that have been followed in order to undertake the restructure of the Cabinet Office and whether a full business case has been developed?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

In terms of the concept, a number of papers have been brought forward on the concept to S.E.B. In November a paper, which outlined everything you would expect to be in a business case went in front of S.E.B. as well and then on to go on for approval. But of course because it is in phases it was at a very high level because it talked about the initial stage. There would be more elements of business cases brought forward as we go into the next stage of that.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Okay. You probably know what I am going to ask you next, which is please can we get a copy of that business case as P.A.C.?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

It is a S.E.B. paper, I would need to ask S.E.B. whether that is appropriate or not because it is their paper.

Deputy L.V. Feltham : Okay, I can ask.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: You can ask, it is their paper.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

That is fine, I will ask S.E.B. directly.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

There is probably a timing issue as well with that, I would imagine because of the consultation process.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Okay, thank you. With regard to those business cases, what consideration has been given to the collation and tracking of baseline measurements when restructuring business cases are being developed?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Of course this is about benefits realisation because a lot of what we have talked about in terms of the purpose of this is something that was more qualitative rather than quantitative per se. In terms of getting that information back, Ministers will obviously have a significant input and say whether this is working for them. The organisation should have a say as well as to whether they are also seeing the benefits because this is for the whole organisation itself as well. Of course the people within the Cabinet Office too should be able to see the benefits of that joint working and should make their jobs a lot easier.

Mr. G. Phipps :

But would it not show up in the key performance indicators in the Government?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Of course it will.

Mr. G. Phipps :

The bottom line is still the bottom line.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Absolutely.

Mr. G. Phipps :

I would think that if you do not see changes in the cross to running government efficiencies

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: Yes. No, you are absolutely right.

Mr. G. Phipps :

because that is what this is all about.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey: That is what this is all about, you are absolutely right.

Mr. G. Phipps :

Yes, we will look for those quantitatives.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I guess I was talking about in the business case for the Cabinet Office but you are right that that will translate into the whole organisation.

Mr. G. Phipps :

It should, that is correct.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

You mentioned benefits realisation, so how do you intend to monitor those ongoing benefits and the effectiveness of the restructure?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

I will go back to the delivery unit again because of course they will help me to do just that. They will help me to take the soundings from Ministers, they will help me to take the soundings from the people. We will have to think about how we do trace some of those more quantitative elements through but it would be quite complicated to trace them right through, as this was the cause of that particular change. I am sure you can see that but it is not a very direct line necessarily. But they will help me with the framework to look at the benefits realisation because it is absolutely fundamental that we get this right. I think that everybody in the Cabinet Office will want to get that level of feedback because this is a chance to do something really different and really innovative and much better.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Obviously the organisation has been through quite a lot of change over the last few years; that it is quite important that staff are communicated around the reasons for change and what the change means. What plans have you got in place to communicate the changes to employees across the organisation, as well as the general public? They will be going another change.

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Yes. Of course this is not whole organisational change. It is a change in the way we work first and foremost, as opposed to a massive restructuring of the whole organisation, which is what went before. For me the communications and we do have a communications plan, you will be glad to know, we have been communicating as far as we can in a consultation process where this is phased because it is quite difficult to do. But we have been putting out information in a very regular way as to what this is all about, why we are doing it, reminding them of the timeframes, reminding them of the particular phases as well. That will become much more face-to-face with the services, et cetera, that are involved in the Cabinet Office once we get the leadership team in place and we move forward into the next stage; that is certainly going to be much more face to face. I do think the challenge that you have given about, how do you communicate this to Islanders? I think probably a real analysis of communicating something which is quite technical, something which is quite public- sector focused into something that is understandable and meaningful to Islanders, so it is something that the communications team will get their heads around because they are in the Cabinet Office. They will absolutely be part of how we do that.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

With regard to lessons learned, I recognise that perhaps it might be too early in the game for this particular consultation to be learning and knowing what lessons might be but thinking about maybe the previous restructures and previous changes that have happened within the organisation as well, what lessons have been learned and how do you intend to approach change and organisational change and consultation within the organisation in future on the basis of those lessons?

Chief Executive Officer, Government of Jersey:

Every change is about getting it right, is about good communication all the way through really and every change that I have been involved in, that is what people are really, really hungry for. Looking back it is always learning in terms of communication and communication from the outset. But communication is a 2-way thing of course, so it is not just we are doing this and this is what it is going to be, it is about listening to people and it is about taking some of those suggestions or concerns on board and making sure that you allay those concerns. Also there are very likely to be some good suggestions about how you could do something better. So taking them on board in a way that you can co-design and shape up the change. Of course, those quick wins of seeing that things are different, that things are changing and communicating those as well is really important too. Getting people involved in all of that and reward in terms of recognition when these changes are being made and people have been involved and supported them and have worked with me and the rest of the leadership team, so I certainly want to recognise people for doing that. And listen to the trade unions, just to say that.

Deputy L.V. Feltham :

Do any of the other committee members have any further questions? In that case then, I thank the chief executive officer and her officers for attending the hearing today and addressing our questions. Thank you as well to our officers from Scrutiny for being here and the members of the public who have been watching this hearing. I will now draw the hearing to a close. Thank you.

[15:57]