Economic and International Affairs Scrutiny Panel Quarterly Review Hearing

Witness: The Minister for International Development

Wednesday, 26th April 2023

Panel:

Deputy M. Scott of St. Brelade (Chair) Connétable M. Troy of St. Clement

Witnesses:

Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville and St. Martin - The Minister for International Development Mr. S. Boas - Director, Jersey Overseas Aid

[14:57]

Deputy M. Scott of St. Brelade (Chair):

Welcome to this quarterly hearing of the Economic and International Affairs Scrutiny Panel. The aims of this hearing are to gather information about the ministerial objectives of the Minister for International Development for the next quarter, covering the areas within her ministerial delivery plan and any other areas within the Minister's remit. Also to follow up on issues raised at the last hearing, which was held in November 2022 to see how these have progressed. I would like to draw everyone's attention to the following. That this hearing will be filmed and streamed live. The recording  and  transcript  will  be  published  afterwards  on  the  States  Assembly  website.   All electronic devices, including mobile phones, should be switched to silent, please. I would ask that the one member of the public who has joined us in the room today does not interfere in the proceedings and as soon as the hearing is closed to please leave quietly. For the purposes of the recording and the transcript, I would be grateful if everyone who speaks could ensure that you state your name and role. If we can begin with introductions. I will suggest the panel members introduce ourselves followed by the ministerial team. I am Deputy Moz Scott , Chair of the Economic and International Affairs Panel.

Connétable M. Troy of St. Clement :

I am Constable Marcus Troy of St. Clement and I am a member of the panel.

The Minister for International Development:

I am Carolyn Labey , Minister for International Development and Chair of Jersey Overseas Aid.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

I am Simon Boas, the Executive Director of Jersey Overseas Aid.

Deputy M. Scott :

Thank you. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that we have one hour scheduled or this hearing and quite a few areas for questioning. If questions remain at the end of the hearing or if there are areas that need more detail, we will send these to the ministerial team. The first section we are going to be asking is about the Island Identity Project. At our last hearing, Minister, you informed us that you were having meetings with Ministers in Government to ensure that some of the recommendations and opportunities within the Island Identity Project were being pursued. How is this progressing, please, and how has this moved on since we last spoke?

The Minister for International Development:

Okay. I describe the Island Identity Project as a bit of a slow burn. Fran, who is sitting behind us, my P.S. (Private Secretary) and I are the team progressing it. We are very reliant on other departments to fulfil some of the objectives and the recommendations, however we do pursue certain elements of it ourselves.

[15:00]

Our relationship with External Relations is very good because they are an outward facing department and they have been progressing the work on the Jersey diaspora. Fran very kindly keeps the website up to date and that is now being used for political education in schools and I attend the Diversity Forum and political education meetings to ensure that we are rolling it out in schools. Ambassador packs, again with External Relations, are being prepared for athletes, for people travelling abroad and, for example, in Jersey Overseas Aid our community work projects. They will be spoken to by J.O.A. (Jersey Oversea Aid) staff about the Island and what we are about, so there is a consistent message going out there about the Island and the Island identity. I

would say those are the main parts that have been progressed. There has been a book produced - well, there has been 3 books produced so far - that is being rolled out in primary schools again to teach our school children about the Island, about various events. There is one for the coronation which the Bailiff has sponsored. So it is going well and we are forever hopeful, A.L.O.s (arm's length organisations) like ports will take on board our recommendations when they are providing new facilities at the harbour, the airport, et cetera, and Jerseyify them.

Deputy M. Scott :

That is a lot of information there so thank you. I will just follow up on a few things that you asked. You mentioned your relationship with the Minister of External Relations being good. How well are you interacting with the Economic Development Department insofar as some of your work perhaps will be informing the tourist strategy. Have you got some sort of line of communication or plan in terms of informing that?

The Minister for International Development:

Yes, I am due to meet the new C.E.O. (Chief Executive Officer) of Visit Jersey so I think there is an awful lot of synergy. We have had meetings with the Economic Development Minister and the officers are to progress in culture in his department, heritage. I have the Jersey Heritage Trust Chair sitting alongside me. The economic side progresses but they have quite a substantial budget and they are progressing things and we just hope that some of the recommendations of ours are being progressed. We have regular meetings to ensure they are on the agenda.

Deputy M. Scott :

I will just ask you to focus on perhaps keeping the questions brief, just because we have quite a few to get through.

The Minister for International Development: Okay, sorry.

Deputy M. Scott :

No problem. Also another area which I presume the project is to inform is planning policy. I just wondered what your thoughts are on that and how you expect to inform planning policy insofar as there is any link between that and the cultural identity?

The Minister for International Development:

Well, there is a link with Island identity in that the architecture, our environment, is wholly dependent, I would have thought, on the Island identity and vice versa. We have had meetings with the Minister for the Environment and, again, we have not recommended any particular planning policies in our recommendations, they are more general.

Deputy M. Scott :

Will you be looking into whether that is a possibility or advisable in terms of your objectives?

The Minister for International Development:

With just the 2 of us progressing the recommendations, we do not have the expertise to provide architectural design and that sort of thing. There is only so much we can do there, I think. We have opinions but that is exactly what they are.

Deputy M. Scott :

The nature of your meeting with the Minister for the Environment then was to discuss what?

The Minister for International Development:

I do not have the recommendations in front of me stupidly at the moment but

Deputy M. Scott :

Can we come back to you on that then in writing perhaps? That would be yes, okay.

The Minister for International Development: Yes, absolutely, I can set them out for you.

Deputy M. Scott :

I will just skip on to the next bit, which is about this you have mentioned the diaspora programme. In your delivery plan you mention that the scoping work is to begin and it sounds like it has begun, and that would also include an organisation structure being created. Has that been created? Can we have an organigram if it has?

The Minister for International Development:

It has not as yet. This is something that the London office were looking at as well as us because they had started a programme of work some time ago. But that for us, that again is a time factor as to who can progress this work. Again, we are reliant on External Relations progressing it.

Deputy M. Scott :

Is there a timeframe within which you might expect that particular task to be completed?

The Minister for International Development:

No, and I think that would be an evolving task because we have some ideas as to how to tap into the Jersey diaspora through various Facebook groups.

Deputy M. Scott :

Sorry, I am just talking about the organisation structure, Minister.

The Minister for International Development: Right. No, we do not have one.

Deputy M. Scott :

We might follow that up in writing. The ambassador packs that you have mentioned, is it possible for the panel to have a copy of one?

The Minister for International Development:

Yes, although they will differ depending on who they are being given to. If they are sportspeople, whatever they have we have the bulk of some text, for example, that we have given to the Comité des Connétable s, some papers for newcomers to the parishes, for them to adapt to put their own elements from their particular parishes, add to it. Those, for example, would form part of somebody arriving in the Island, they would be given a particular pack. An athlete that is travelling abroad would be given a different pack, if you like.

Deputy M. Scott :

Right, so you have different kind of content for different context?

The Minister for International Development: Yes.

Deputy M. Scott :

Perhaps we could have a copy of some of that content?

The Minister for International Development:

Yes, we can give you a copy. We have the Island Identity document, the consultation document where we have a lot of material in there that forms the basis of a lot of what we would imagine can be given out. For example, to newcomers to the Island there are chapters on our constitution, our history, the parishes, the voting system and that sort of thing.

Deputy M. Scott :

Do you know how many of these packs have been given out?

The Minister for International Development:

No. No, I do not because people can download the information on the website.

Deputy M. Scott :

Okay, so coming back to the website, could we just perhaps expand a bit on that? Is this this cultural hub, because you have mentioned a cultural hub is a centre where information on Island identity could be obtained using the website? So this particular website from which you can download

The Minister for International Development:

No, ours is the Island Identity website that we formed when we were drawing up the documents and making the recommendations. The cultural hub was one of the recommendations and that has been taken on by the Minister for Children and Education. She chairs the cultural hub and she is putting together, or there is a panel on which I sit, a series of programmes throughout the year to try and create a sense of inclusivity for various communities in our society.

Deputy M. Scott :

So will this take the form of a website or is that just something you are not clear on?

The Minister for International Development:

No, that no, I am clear. That is not a website. The Island Identity is a website where information can be downloaded from but the cultural hub is a physical hub. At the moment it is at the library and, for example, newcomers or anyone really can go along and we are hoping that people will have to go along, for example, when they are new to the Island and have to pick up a social security card. So that would be a reason to go along and get an information pack from the cultural hub.

Deputy M. Scott :

Right, so when they get the security card, that will be from where?

The Minister for International Development:

Well, that is from Social Security at the minute but we are hoping somehow - well, I am hoping - that the hub could be amalgamated. It is at the library at the moment while it is forming.

Deputy M. Scott :

Okay, and this is perhaps related to that. You discussed a welcome pack for newcomers to the Island as part of the Island Identity Project during our last hearing, how has this progressed and what information will the pack contain? Is that the Social Security

The Minister for International Development:

Yes. Well, these need not be physical packs, okay? They can be and certainly we sent around, for example, in the example I have just given to the Comité des Connétable s the basis of some information that could be given out to newcomers to the parish. Likewise, there could be physical packs or information sheets given out to newcomers, to people new to the Island, accessing their first jobs and stuff whereby a pack is put together with information about the Island, with a social security card, with a health card, with an explanation as to how things work.

Deputy M. Scott :

If I am clear about this, what you are saying is there is content on the Island Identity Project website that people can download and use the basis for welcome packs?

The Minister for International Development: Yes.

Deputy M. Scott :

But is there any particular standard procedure that has been involved? This just sounds a bit random at the moment. Is there some sort of agreement that this will happen in different parishes? What about Social Security, are you working on that?

The Minister for International Development:

Indeed, we are working on it but we are reliant on particular organisations, bodies, departments taking these initiatives forward.

Deputy M. Scott :

How are you getting on with that?

The Minister for International Development:

Well, okay. As I say we have been to the Comité des Connétable s, I sit as a member of the cultural hub and we are discussing how to do that, whether we do it physically or send people information digitally. But the cultural hub has had, I think, 2 or 3 meetings at the moment and they put on various events, for example the Chinese New Year, Diwali.

Deputy M. Scott :

Can I just be a bit clear about the cultural hub because it seems like the panel formed the impression from the last hearing that it was a website but I understand from you it is not and you talked about the cultural hub meeting, and you have mentioned the Minister for Children and Education? Am I to understand the cultural hub is in fact a group of people and, if so, what are their identities, please?

The Minister for International Development:

No, the cultural hub is being run at the moment by the Chief Librarian because that is where the cultural hub sits at the moment.

[15:15]

Deputy M. Scott :

What does it consist of, please?

The Minister for International Development:

It will consist, eventually, of information and things of relevance, maybe, you know, where people can pick up driving licence forms or other forms, a little like the parish halls.

Deputy M. Scott :

Then when you talked about the cultural hub meeting, are you talking about some other group that is connected with the project or the hub?

The Minister for International Development:

Yes, the panel are made it is quite a diverse panel of about, I would say, 10 people at the moment.

Deputy M. Scott :

What is the name of this panel, please?

The Minister for International Development:

The cultural hub panel? I do not know the specific name.

Deputy M. Scott :

Okay, we might follow that up in writing, I think I have caught you on the hop. You also mentioned that Jersey's history teaching plan for teachers will form part of this project, is this information now available and, if so, can you give us a view of what that looks like, please?

The Minister for International Development: What information?

Deputy M. Scott :

I believe you were suggesting that the Island Identity, there will be aspects of that, whether it is historical or what, which you intended to be taught in schools so therefore we deduced that that would be part of the teaching plans. I just wondered if you are able to identify what this information is now? What is happening in terms of that particular roll out?

The Minister for International Development:

The information that we supplied has been put into teaching plans and added to, and I guess teachers can have their own input into it. The department responsible for rolling that out in schools now is P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedures Committee).

Deputy M. Scott :

Right, okay, thanks. I am going to pass on to Constable Troy now.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Good afternoon, Minister. During the last hearing you informed the panel that you had 2 interns in place with a third due to be placed. Can you give an update on the intern programme that you set up in the United Nations?

The Minister for International Development:

Yes, this is Jersey Overseas Aid, so this is our U.N. (United Nations) placements and they are quite a success story. We have secured as you rightly say, we had secured when we last spoke to you 2 places, one of our interns is in Bangladesh working in a refugee camp and the other one is in Lebanon working with refugees there and we have secured a third one and she went to Cairo at the beginning of this year. We are hoping to offer a U.N. placement every year to a local person.

The Connétable of St. Clement : What sort of work do the interns do?

The Minister for International Development:

They work with refugees. So they work in International Development with the refugees. The one in Bangladesh is in Cox's Bazaar..

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Yes. We also note from the last hearing that you were due to launch 3 projects for Islanders to volunteer in Rwanda, Kenya and Nepal. How far along are these projects and how successful was the launch strategy?

The Minister for International Development:

The launch was incredibly successful. We filled St. Paul's Centre. We were oversubscribed for the 3 projects so we have interviewed everybody and have them all meeting and being trained ready to go.

Deputy M. Scott :

If you do not mind, Constable Troy , just how did you narrow down in terms of you were oversubscribed, what did you kind of prioritise in terms of deciding who would be accepted on to the programmes.

The Minister for International Development:

Well, they have to meet the criteria we set out but then it is mainly by interview. Simon sat on the interview panel.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

I sat on one so would it help to jump in because it is quite interesting. We are not trying to assemble the dream team to go and build the best group of people to build a dam necessarily or to build a school in Nepal. We are trying to take a range of ages and experiences and we are also very conscious that for some people this is the making of them. It is a huge benefit to for them as well as to us. We consciously also tried to pick people perhaps who have had less experience, have not been off the Island, perhaps have come from more difficult backgrounds. For example, we work with the Trackers apprentice programme to try to give places to people who are on that programme.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Thank you. Are there any further actions that would help promote careers in international development to Islanders?

The Minister for International Development:

We also offer bursaries. We have 2 Tridents coming in this summer. We launched, a few years ago, the J.I.D.N. programme, which is Jersey International Development Network. We get somebody over to speak about a particular aspect of international development. We might have the Red Cross emergencies person to come over and speak to well, it is usually a filled town hall. We are hoping in these coming months to put together a newsletter so that we can have a database whereby we will send people a newsletter of what we are up to, what we are doing and the opportunities.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

If I may, we have our own internship programme as well as the one with the U.N. Our sixth intern has just left us to take up her placement, first in the U.K. (United Kingdom). They tend to spend 6 months with us learning the ropes, 6 months in the U.K. with an international N.G.O. (non- governmental organisation) and then 6 months in the field that N.G.O. managing a project. After that 18 months they are very employable in the sector. Our seventh is about to join us in May. We designed that thinking what would we have wanted in our early to mid-20s to get into international development. All but one of them is still in the field - in this field, I mean - and 2 have worked for J.O.A. (Jersey Overseas Aid) some years after the internship and have come back so it also gives us a pipeline of qualified people.

Deputy M. Scott :

May I just say something? When you say they are still in the field, does that mean you are saying some of them found jobs elsewhere in that field?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: Yes, that is right.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

You informed us at the last hearing that J.O.A. had 30 projects with 36 different kinds of grants, which was discussed as being quite spread. How is this being managed and how are these project prioritised?

The Minister for International Development:

Right, how is it being managed? Well, we manage them with partners in the field and we monitor and evaluate them and stage pay the grants. We have to be completely satisfied that the objectives are met before we pay out another tranche. These are our sustainable grants. The staff have been working tirelessly for the last 4 months on producing a 160-page document, and this is the summary, of the new projects that commissioners had to consider. This is a comprehensive, as I say, summary of the work that they have put together in the field looking at projects and they will come back and recommend or highly recommend or do not recommend to commissioners and then commissioners will pour over them, ask difficult questions and then make decisions on which ones we are minded to support.

Deputy M. Scott :

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: Absolutely, yes.

The Minister for International Development: We are very proud of that.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

We think it gives commissioners the best set of tools to make those difficult decisions about what to prioritise. If I may just correct something, it might have been when we were speaking last time. We have 36 or so ongoing grants but not different types of grants but we essentially have the international the long term international development grants of which these new ones is a culmination of a 6 month selection process and, as the Minister was saying, are carefully monitored with reports, monitoring visits, a huge range of D.D. (due diligence ) that we might get on it. Then we have the emergency grants which are lighter touch, quicker for places like Ukraine or the Horn of Africa. We have Jersey charities that we come from a presumption that we want to fund you but you still have to get over a hurdle, but we will help you. Then finally we have the work projects and bursaries and that.

The Connétable of St. Clement : There are not 36 types of grants?

The Minister for International Development: No.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: No.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Good for you, thank you. This might overrule my last question, the production of your decisions support group booklet. Not booklet, book. Can you outline the application process for grants and confirm if there have been any alterations to increase due diligence and monitoring of successful applicants?

The Minister for International Development:

The forms are visited and revisited and improved as we go on. That is a process - Simon will talk you through the particular process - but there is huge amounts of due diligence.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

I will be as brief as I can so please stop me

Deputy M. Scott :

So start where people find the forms.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Yes. We have, I think, one of the best processes now of any grant maker. In order to get a grant from Jersey Overseas Aid it starts with an expression of interest where we ask for 2 or 3 pages from an already pre-selected group of about 50 international charities, non-profits and U.N. agencies to say what would you achieve if you had a certain amount of money in one of our 3 priority areas? We have narrowed everything down to dairy, conservation and finance where Jersey can really bat above its weight. These are then reviewed and independently reviewed, not just within J.O.A., and recommendations are taken to the Commission who narrow it down to about 15. That tends to happen about the autumn, by Christmas we have received, of the 15 shortlisted, full proposals for the grants, which can amount to 100 pages plus, not including all the background information we insist on. The assessment is there and their own finances and their partner's finances, their safeguarding policies, their fraud policies, their whistleblowing policies, all of this kind of thing. Their governance, their articles of association. We review those documents first of all in the office and then we go and visit all of them in the field and we spend a day with them asking difficult questions about the minutes of their procurement committee and the composition of their advisory boards, the last time a fraud was detected and what happened. As well as, of course, looking at the project itself. Is it feasible? Is it sustainable? Is it value for money? You will see in this booklet the different criteria we apply. We write that up, we score it all, we review it and we come up with recommendations dividing the 14 or 15 into highly recommended projects, which we think are a real cut above the rest, recommended projects, which we think are fundable and good, which perhaps could use one or 2 tweaks. Then, in this case, 4 projects that we thought were not fundable and we strongly advised the board not to fund. Just on Monday this week commissioners met to consider those projects, which they do also in consideration of course of how much budget we have but how our portfolio of projects is spread among our 6 target countries and these 3 priority themes. They will come up with the final recommendations. We then write to the agencies, and that is not just: "Here is a cheque, see you in 3 or 4 years." Even before we start the project we go back to them, look at the budget again, look at their results framework. They have told us they are going to meet these objectives: what are your indicators? How are you going to measure them? Do they fit with our own and with international best practice? Once they are happy, once we are happy, we will sign the grant agreement with them, which is a very rigorous document approved by the law officers, which

explains how we are going to fund them and, as the Minister said, we fund in tranches, we do not say it is 1st March therefore we owe you this amount of money. They have to have reached particular milestones, both in terms of the project and in terms of the amount that they have already expended. We have a whole reporting schedule that they have to follow for narrative and financial reports. We manage the project like that, we insist on a baseline survey, a midline survey and an independent endline. It is all very well to say: "Yes, we have funded this project and we have given this money", it is even all very well to say we have dug these wells or we have built these schools but the question is always: so what and what difference has it made?

[15:30]

Are we sure it has made a difference compared to if we had not funded it? What happened to the villages that did not get the wells or the schools, to put it simplistically. They monitor that and we monitor their monitoring. We go out and look at the projects about halfway through and then we insist on an independent final evaluation of the results of the projects and, incidentally, an independent final project audit, which looks at all the project expenditure.

Deputy M. Scott :

That relates to one group of grants.

The Minister for International Development: Yes.

Deputy M. Scott :

When it comes to emergency grants and Jersey charities, are you able to give us a quick run through there? I am only going to give you 30 seconds.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Okay. Emergency, best practice is lighter touch. You cannot insist on knowing the price of every spoon and where it has gone in an earthquake or a situation like the Horn of Africa or in Ukraine. With emergencies we place a bigger priority on pre-selecting our partners. We do a great deal of due diligence and in almost every case we have quite a long term relationship with the Red Cross, being the prime example. An emergency happens, either we write to them or they write to us saying: "Please can we have some money for the Horn of Africa, Cyclone Freddy, Ukraine?" We produce and this requires much less documentation from them and we are also we earmarked the funding, much less, which again is considered good practice. The problems with emergency funding is lots of fragmented little grants, lots of agencies doing the same thing and tying them up with bureaucracy, which is what you do not want to do. In emergencies you have to trust the agency essentially.

The Minister for International Development:

We do tend to use tried and tested known partners for that, like the Red Cross.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

We are praised for being quick. We are praised for not allowing them to build up war chests. That was really apparent in Ukraine with the D.E.C. (Disasters Emergency Committee) appeal and other things. A lot of the big agencies ended up with pots of money that they could not spend quickly because prior to the war they never had officers there or staff there. We do put a few conditions in, like with Ukraine that the money would have to be spent within 6 months. Our reporting requirements are lighter but they are still there and the financial reporting likewise. But it is quicker and we place more emphasis on the trust that we place in the partners, which is not blind trust. Jersey charities, very quickly, the 2 biggest we treat like normal U.K. or international so the R.J.A. and H.S. (Royal Jersey Agriculture and Horticulture Society) and Durrell we treat just like we treat Oxfam or whoever. No, Oxfam, we do not fund them but a U.N. agency. The smaller ones we have a different application form which talks them through some of the things we would expect the bigger U.K. agencies to know anyway. An appreciation of risk, for example. Every project we look at has to have a big analysis of what are the risks and how they are going to mitigate them. A kitchen table charity doing something for Gambia perhaps has not even thought of it. For a while we had to put in our application form: "If you write that we have known Pastor Samuels for 10 years so there are no risks, you will not get funded." It is a little bit more handholding, talking them through these things but our presumption, as I said, is we want to fund them because it is part of our mission to facilitate Jersey individuals and organisations to help others. Where we can we also build their capacity. We help them get better at planning, accounting and project management, and recently terrorist financing. How to deal with the new J.F.S.C. (Jersey Financial Services Commission) regulations. So we have a separate application form, a bit more handholding and we are trying to graduate them up to bigger projects too. We have been successful with some of them, to bigger, longer term projects rather than can we have our 5,000 for this year's well. It is like: "What do you want to do in the future and how can you achieve it?" Then finally the community works projects and bursaries are done. The work projects are on more of a project basis. It gives the budget for your sand dam but then there is also all the considerations of safeguarding. To some extent we are a travel agents and a vaccine provider and a trainer as Carolyn said as well.

Deputy M. Scott :

Thank you. I will just ask a follow up there. Roughly what are the percentages in terms of the funds that you receive that go towards these main grants, the emergency grants and the Jersey charities. How do you define the pot in that respect? You have described these different types of grants, so percentage wise.

The Minister for International Development:

Can I do it in actual figures rather than percentages?

Deputy M. Scott :

Yes, or maybe we might follow that up in writing actually in terms of working out the percentages.

The Minister for International Development:

Yes, because commissioners make a decision at the beginning of the year as to how much they want to earmark for emergencies, how much they want to earmark for sustainable grants, for local charities and outreach.

Deputy M. Scott :

Okay, I think in the interests of time I will ask for that in writing. Also, I am quite interested in terms of you were describing the R.J.A. and H.S. and Durrell as your biggest charities and I will follow up in writing about that as well.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: The biggest Jersey charities.

Deputy M. Scott :

Jersey charities, yes, okay, in terms of how you identify them and funds given out. Thank you, I think it is back to me now. On that note, has much been allocated from this year's funding to emergencies, please?

The Minister for International Development: £2,250,000 emergencies.

Deputy M. Scott :

Is that do you have agreement there?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: Allocated, not spent.

The Minister for International Development: Oh, allocated, sorry. I thought you said spent.

Deputy M. Scott : Allocated.

The Minister for International Development: Oh, sorry, allocated is £4,405,000.

Deputy M. Scott : Right, okay, thank you.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

May I just say that this changes a little bit over the course of the year, partly because we only pay in tranches, if a project is delayed and then it falls into next year we would tend to move it into emergencies. There can be a little bit of flexibility and sometimes we also have to keep a bit, you know if the equivalent of the Boxing Day tsunami happens we cannot just say Jersey's coffers are bare. There is a little bit of movement between the projects.

Deputy M. Scott :

Yes, I understand you cannot predict all the emergencies that are going to take place in one single year.

The Minister for International Development: Yes, exactly.

Deputy M. Scott :

What actions were undertaken to support those and I believe you answered it in ministerial questions without notice in this respect. What actions were undertaken to support those impacted by the earthquakes in Turkey and Syria earlier this year?

The Minister for International Development:

The actions? Well, we funded Turkey and I am trying to find the actual

Deputy M. Scott :

I mean, I can just refer to what you said in your questions without notice, 150,000 to the International Red Cross, 200,000 for special mechanism in Northern Syria designed to fund the local humanitarian organisations in that area and an extra 40,000 to supply essential medicine in both countries. You have also mentioned an additional 75,000 allocation to support engineers on the ground, is there anything extra that is not in there?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: That is it.

The Minister for International Development: Not since

Deputy M. Scott :

Okay, so that covers it all. Right. So with respect to the additional 75,000 allocation to support engineers on the ground, what is the selection process behind these allocations?

The Minister for International Development:

When an emergency happens, obviously keep in close contact with our tried and tested partners that we use in emergencies and whittle that down to the partners that have a particular interest in an area or we know that they are in the ground and they will send us a proposal and commissioners will make a decision based on the proposal and the recommendations.

Deputy M. Scott :

So was RedR a partner or had you been referred by a pre-existing partner?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Pre-existing. RedR we had worked with and quite a good example, if I may, Madam Chair, of us trying to multiple what is in the great scheme of things relatively small amounts of money in terms of the humanitarian response to punch above our weight. RedR is a charity whose specific mission is to train humanitarians and others working in the humanitarian field. We have used them, for example, in Ukraine to train mares to work with international humanitarian organisations. In Southern Turkey, we are using them to train engineers to do damage assessments and reconstruction assessments. We think with them, for a relatively modest amount of money, we can achieve a much bigger impact. The same with I.H.P (International Health Partners), specialist charity, works with the pharmaceutical industry. Our £40,000 grant will ensure that over £250,000 of medicines and medical supplies are delivered to Southern Turkey because of their connections with the pharmaceutical industry.

Deputy M. Scott :

Just coming back to RedR, you have described it as a charity although it has also been described as a N.G.O., or a N.P.O. (non-profit organisation) maybe. Can we just be clear about its status? Is it charity?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Yes, it is, it is registered in the U.K. with the England and Wales Charity Commission.

Deputy M. Scott :

Do you work with any non-charities and what implications does that have in terms of your allocation process?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Yes, we work with U.N. agencies, for example, which are not charities. We work with non-profit organisations, which can be registered as non-profit companies, Crown agents are one which we have also worked with in several countries, which again are a specialist organisation that specialise in procurement and logistics. Aid money is never used to make a profit for people but there is a role for different types of organisations, including in some cases the private sector in development and humanitarian responses.

Deputy M. Scott :

Insofar as charities have to generally comply with one set of rules in terms of safeguarding funds and perhaps N.G.O.s you have mentioned specific agencies that are run by international organisations under treaty. Is there an in between group where you have to consider the implications?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

We always apply our own high standards. So we never just say: "Okay, you are registered with the Charity Commission for England and Wales or in Scotland or in Jersey and therefore that is enough for us." There are a number of different regimes under which they are required to uphold standards and to report, and in all cases, we will go further than that. I have to say we probably do use charity and N.G.O. roughly equally.

Deputy M. Scott :

Okay, thank you. Just coming back to Turkey and Syria, so what ongoing aid has been provided and what mechanisms are in place to ensure continued support following on from the initial response this emergency?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Shall I just pick up on the technical bit of that. Some of it, if I may I have to be a little bit conscious that this is a public forum and I might have to we might have to write to you.

Deputy M. Scott : No problem at all.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

The interesting mechanism is this new fund for Northern Syria that along with the British Government and a couple of other governments we had been talking about for some time, because it is difficult to get aid into the opposition held areas of Northern Syria and the standard U.N. mechanisms have to comply with international agreements about which border crossings can go through and things. There has been a lot of talk for some time about setting up a fund for Northern Syria that would work with N.G.O.s that would otherwise be targeted by the Syrian regime. It is for that reason we cannot tell you the details about where the funding is going or even immediately the name of the mechanism, though we can write to you. What is interesting is that we have been talking about that for 6 months or so and commissioners had met F. C.D .O. (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) officials to look at what the British Government was doing and to ascertain that it was a good mechanism and been set up properly. We had just done that when the earthquake struck and then it immediately proved its value, the homework we had done, that we could get aid into the hands of up to 17, I think, have been due diligenced by this mechanism. Syrian N.G.O.s that will otherwise be targeted by the government that we could not support.

Deputy M. Scott :

Okay, thank you. I have some other questions in this section but I think I will send them to you in writing. I will pass on to Constable Troy to ask you about some ongoing projects.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Ongoing projects. You informed the panel previously that you are hosting the African Jersey Forum in Malawi sometime this year. When is this due to take place and can you give some background to the event and its benefit to Jersey?

The Minister for International Development:

Indeed. That is due to take place at the end of June this year. It is the third Jersey Africa Forum. The first one was in Rwanda, the second one, unfortunately, had to be done on Teams, and this is the third one. There are dairy farmers from all over Africa and indeed all over the world that come to this conference. There are speakers that are expert in their field and Jersey's prominence and expertise in this field is becoming very well known. The benefits to Jersey I think are enormous and also the R.J.A. and H.S. play a role in this with their particular expertise in genetics.

[15:45]

The Connétable of St. Clement : So reputation.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

From a project point of view, if I may, to be able to cross-fertilise projects, share knowledge, show what works in Malawi, try that in Zambia: "Oh, you are doing that in Ethiopia" is really valuable.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

At the last hearing you also informed us that you had signed a memorandum of understanding with the Zambian Minister for Agriculture and we are due to be starting a new dairy product in Zambia. How is this progressing?

The Minister for International Development: Yes, so that is due to start this year?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Yes, in fact hopefully you will be attending the although it has not been finalised yet, the opening ceremony of that at the end of June just outside Lusaka but all the preliminary work and some expenditure is already underway of assembling the project partners, selecting beneficiaries.

Deputy M. Scott :

By "you" I believe you mean the Minister, not me and the Constable?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Sorry, you are welcome to come, though. Please come.

Deputy M. Scott :

Because we were not aware of it, thank you.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Can you update us on any other further dairy projects that you are about to undertake?

The Minister for International Development:

Well, when we sifted - we call this our sift - through these projects earlier this week we found we chose one new dairy project, which we are going to work with Ripple Effect, which we have worked with many times before. They used to be called Send a Cow. That is a new project starting in Ethiopia.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Thank you. Was there any physical transportation of Jersey cows from the Island recently using Government of Jersey and/or Jersey Overseas Aid Commission funds, for example?

The Minister for International Development: No.

The Connétable of St. Clement : No.

Deputy M. Scott :

Is there anything, because we are trying to identify whether it is a bit chicken and egg, where did the first cow come from in terms of the Jersey cow. There has been this pattern of importing semen to impregnate existing Jersey cows so did any of these existing cows ever involve some physical transport of live cows from Jersey?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

No, we have not funded any physical transport. They do not do well, especially in Africa when they have grown up in Jersey. We transfer semen and on a couple of occasions we have transferred embryos too, which is very exciting technology.

Deputy M. Scott :

Where did the original cows

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: That are in Jersey?

Deputy M. Scott :

In Africa. You know, in the countries that you are where did they first come from, do you know?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

You are using Jersey genetics to improve the milk yield presumably of the inhabiting cows.

The Minister for International Development: Yes.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Originally back to colonial days, I think. That farmers and planters would go out, try and find a nice dairy breed that was higher yielding than the local breeds and

Deputy M. Scott :

So it is back in history?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

You find some odd bits. You find a Guernsey from time to time or a Jersey, somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

Deputy M. Scott :

All right, interesting. Okay, thank you. I will hand back to Constable Troy .

The Connétable of St. Clement :

What interaction does the Royal Jersey Agricultural and Horticultural Society have with the dairy export in support?

The Minister for International Development:

Some of our projects are with - they are our partners - the R.J.A. and H.S. In fact most of projects, most of our dairy projects are with them.

Deputy M. Scott :

Can you just explain what they provide in terms of when you say they are partners?

The Minister for International Development:

All the expertise, identifying the project, although we go out there with them to identify what is suitable for villages and regions and where it might work. They provide all the expertise and do the work to set it up. Obviously if there is negotiations to take place between the Department of Agriculture officers, some of our officers go down, some of the R.J.A. and H.S. officers go down, et cetera, and then if we need a M.o.U (memorandum of understanding) signed then I will go along and sign it so that we can take it and get the support from their government for us to be doing projects.

Deputy M. Scott :

Sorry, can I just follow up here? It is like a kind of advisory support for projects?

The Minister for International Development: It is everything.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

It is a bit of that. They are 2 things: they are an implementing partner, just like CARE or Plan might be, they propose us a project, we fund it, they provide the expertise. They often work with a downstream partner. They are the ones liaising with the Ministry of Agriculture, the extension agents, the artificial insemination vets. They are delivering a project but they also, as the Minister said, have almost a fraternal or sisterly relationship with us, providing quality control on other dairy projects, helping us strategise and helping us in that international relations thing because they have much more of a presence on the ground in these countries.

Deputy M. Scott :

Do you provide funds to them or ? Okay, so it is an agreement on which that is provided under? Could we have a copy of that, please?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: Yes, absolutely. So we have our funding

The Minister for International Development:

We have grant agreements which are quite extensive.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: We also have a kind of overarching agreement.

Deputy M. Scott :

Thank you, perhaps that would be useful, thank you.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Finally, how do you measure the impact of the dairy support in terms of improvement in health, milk yields, et cetera.

The Minister for International Development:

This is monitored as to how many children can then go to school rather than forage for food. It has these kind of projects it started off changing a household's income when one calf was given to another household, so it would change the household's income, then a village, and it is now changing regions, this particular project or the dairy project.

Deputy M. Scott :

Perhaps we can ask for some more specific

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

We are really rigorous on this and it is one of the things that Ministers and the Commission have introduced, and we are really proud of it, that at every stage you can monitor. Obviously you can monitor milk yields but then you can monitor how much profit you are making, and then you can monitor the effects on food security, resilience, women's empowerment. We are trying to introduce some more nutrition indicators into our projects and we are also trying to find a way of having indicators that can cut across all our projects so we can report to you that this is our net impact as a donor.

Deputy M. Scott :

Yes, perhaps we can just have an example of the health indicators and how you have been monitoring those.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: We will give you all the dairy ones.

Deputy M. Scott :

Thank you. Thank you very much. Are you finished?

The Connétable of St. Clement : Yes.

Deputy M. Scott :

Thank you. One of your ministerial actions is to increase Jersey's official development assistance towards the O.E. C.D .'s (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development), average of 0.33 per cent, raising it from 0.27 per cent in 2022 to 0.28 per cent of G.V.A. (gross value added) in 2023. When do you anticipate the 0.33 per cent O.E. C.D . average will be met?

The Minister for International Development:

Our hope is that it goes up by 0.01 per cent, year on year. That would be our hope so that we actually achieve at least the O.E. C.D . average.

Deputy M. Scott :

So you are talking about 8, 9, 10, 11 sorry?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: Five or 6 years.

Deputy M. Scott :

Five or 6 years, thank you. So that is going to be by 2029?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Ish. Yes, the average obviously changes a tiny bit each year as well.

Deputy M. Scott :

Right, of course. Thank you. Could you please outline what actions you are undertaking to support Jersey's financial services industry to its offerings in impact investment and sustainable finance and philanthropy.

The Minister for International Development:

We obviously give, or can give,  advice to the finance industry on philanthropy. We are in discussions with a dairy impact investment fund. Obviously we do not have the financial expertise. There are professional finance people that have that. What we have is the expertise in identifying the projects that can be supported with the benefit of the fund. So we discuss these things with J.F.L. (Jersey Finance Limited) and other individuals in the finance industry.

Deputy M. Scott :

In terms of the giving of advice, on how many occasions last year have you has this advice been sought and how many occasions this year?

The Minister for International Development: I do not know about particular occasions.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

I can give you some examples, if I may. We are part of what was the community of interest sustainable finance group done by J.F.L. and has now been taken on by External Relations, called the Sustainable Finance Ambassadors Group. We meet with them and we participate in events. We were one of the 3 judges of Jersey Finance's first sustainable finance awards last year. We have also been involved in the feedback to the 32 or so entries across the different categories. As the Minister said, we have tried where we can to support individual ventures like impact funds and

we have participated on 2 or 3 occasions in Jersey Finance webinars to the sector and abroad, talking exactly as the Minister says about where we can add value in terms of our network's experience, impact measurement, which is a certain amount of own homework marking, I would say, in the new field of sustainable finance and E.S.G. (environment, social and governance), whereas our sector brings this rigor and empiricism to it. We think we have quite a lot to offer and last week commissioners agreed that we should perhaps look at developing a paper looking at what more we can do to support the industry and vice versa.

The Minister for International Development:

Yes, and how they can benefit us. For example, our financial inclusion programmes, we would like to seek advice to see if they have any ideas as to how we can improve what we are offering.

Deputy M. Scott :

Right, thank you. I am just going to turn to one of the things the panel has done is just reach out to see if the members of public have any particular burning questions. One did enquire on your policy on engaging and providing aid to countries where there is corruption or believed to present with their elected officials. I am aware that you gave an answer in ministerial questions without notice pointing out that it is very difficult when you are trying to give aid to developing countries to avoid regimes where there is an element of corruption. We also discussed the Corruption Protection Index at our last hearing. I am just wondering what further information you might give to those who might be worried about support being diverted by corrupt officials and any potential impact on the reputation of the Island?

The Minister for International Development:

I think I answered that question last time in the States. As I said, the formula we use to choose our countries is the Corruption Perception Index divided by the Humanitarian Development Index squared, and then out of those countries we tend to pick the anglophile countries to work in because they have obviously helped us if you can read the reports and the feedback we are getting. There is a formula and it seems to work well. I do not believe any country is without any form of corruption so we do have to weigh it up with the Humanitarian Development Index as well to help those in need, and also we are not a bilateral donor so we are not giving to governments, we are giving to the N.G.O.s or the U.N. who we are used to working with.

Deputy M. Scott :

Just to be clear, given Jersey's reliance on being and, indeed, being seen to be a world leader in finance and financial regulation, do you believe that any association with corruption should be avoided at all cost?

The Minister for International Development: It should be avoided, if possible, yes.

Deputy M. Scott :

I think what you are saying is in terms of this approach with the Corruption Protection Index

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

We are the only donor in the world to take corruption into account as well as needs when we choose our target country, as the Minister said. I think that goes

Deputy M. Scott :

How do you know that?

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid:

Well, the only one I am aware of. I hope I am aware of most of the other donor's policies. Also, as the Minister said, we do not provide bilateral aid so there is a limit to how much money can be misused as members of the public often think it is and it sometimes is. Thirdly, as we said, we monitor where every pound goes. While we can never 100 per cent sure and we cannot say that none of the countries that we work in are corrupt at any level, equally we take, I think, better precautions than almost any other government donor in this.

[16:00]

Deputy M. Scott :

Right, well, thank you. I note we have slightly overrun so apologies for that. Thank you very much, Minister, for attending our hearing today and addressing the panel's questions. Thank you very much, Mr. Boas, too as supporting government officer for contributing today. Thank you, also, to the other government officers who are here to help with this hearing and to the member of the public who is here to watch the hearing too. Thank you, I declare it closed.

The Minister for International Development: Thank you.

Executive Director, Jersey Overseas Aid: Thank you.

[16:01]