States Meeting Transcript - 13/03/2007

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 13th MARCH 2007

QUESTIONS......................................................................................8

1. Written Questions........................................................................8

1. DEPUTY D.W. MEZBOURIAN OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING STAFF SUSPENSIONS AS A RESULT OF DISCIPLINARY INFRACTIONS UP TO THE END OF 2006:............................................8
2. DEPUTY D.W. MEZBOURIAN OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING J' CATEGORY EMPLOYEES DURING THE PERIOD 2000 TO 2006: .........................................................................................11
3. DEPUTY S.S.P.A. POWER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCTION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE POTENTIAL FOR COMPENSATION TO BE POAID TO THE NEW OPERATOR OF THE AMPHIBIOUS SERVICE TO ELIZABETH CASTLE IN VIEW OF THE PROPOSED CLOSURE OF THE CASTLE UNTIL 1ST JUNE 2007:...............................15
4. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE ENVIRONMENT SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING WASTE DISPOSAL ISSUES:16
5. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE CONCRETE DEGRADATION AT CONVENT COURT:........17
6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE PAYMENT OF BENEFITS AND LONG TERM INCAPACITY ALLOWANCE: ........................................................18
7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING TEACHERS' PAY AWARDS:.........................................20

2. Oral Questions: ..........................................................................20

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the outcome of recent investigations into a letter written by Senator S. Syvret: ...........................................................20 Connétable D.F. Gray ofSt. Clement (Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee): .........................................................................................21

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................21
2. Deputy R.G. Hérissier: .................................................................21

3. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................21

2. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence of the Chief Minister regarding statistical records of additional people taking up residence in the Island consequential upon the States employing (j) category staff:.....................................................22 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................22

1. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................22
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................22
3. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :..............................................................22
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier : ..................................................23

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................23
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................23

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding a Ministerial response to the "Overdale, the closure of Leoville and McKinstry Ward s" Scrutiny report:.........................................................................24 Senator S. Syvret (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.............................24

1. Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity :..........................................................24
2. Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement:.......................................................24
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................24
   4. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding Ministerial study of the "Jersey Telecom Privatisation" Scrutiny report:................24 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ..........................24

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................25
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................26
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................26
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................26
   5. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the tendering and selection process for the new Jersey Tourism website:...................26 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):............................26

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27
2. Deputy P.V.F Le Claire: ................................................................27
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................28
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................28
5. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade : ..................................................28
6. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................29

7. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................29

6. Senator B.E. Shenton of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding free parking for departmental staff:..........................................................29 Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):...........................29

2.6.1 Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................30

7. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the effectiveness of the European Union Savings Directive: ................................30 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ..........................30

2.7.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................30

8. Senator B.E. Shenton of the Minister for Economic Development regarding airline licences and subsidy paid to B.M.I. in respect of the Heathrow route:..................31

1. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................31
2. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................32
3. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade:...............................................32
4. Senator L. Norman: ....................................................................32
5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................32
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................33
7. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................33

8. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................34
9. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour:...............................................34

9. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the proposed Hydra Terra amphibious vehicle service to Elizabeth Castle:...34 Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):........................34 Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville (Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):......34

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................35
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour:......................................................35
3. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................35

4. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................36

10. Deputy J.A. Martin of the Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the accuracy of the findings of the recent M.O.R.I. poll on electoral reform:.36 The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee).....36

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................36
2. Deputy J.A. Martin: ...................................................................37
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................37
4. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville : ................................................37

5. The Connétable of Grouville :..........................................................37
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:.............................................................37
7. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................37

11. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding timescales for shutting-down incinerators: ..........................38 Deputy G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):...38

2.11.1 Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ..............................................................38

12. Deputy S. Power of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding an extension to the contract period for the proposed amphibious vehicle service to Elizabeth Castle: 39 Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):........................39

1. The Deputy of Grouville (Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture): ......39
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:..............................................................39

13. Deputy K.C. Lewis of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding non- notification to patients of the results of blood sample testing: ..........................40 Senator S. Syvret (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.............................40

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis : ...................................................................40
2. The Connétable of Grouville :..........................................................40
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:..............................................................41
4. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian : ............................................................41
5. Deputy J.A. Martin: ...................................................................41
6. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian : ............................................................41
7. Deputy K.C. Lewis : ...................................................................42

3. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Economic Development....42

The Bailiff :...................................................................................42

1. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................42 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):............................42
2. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................43
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................43 The Bailiff :...................................................................................44
4. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :..............................................................44
5. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................44
6. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................44
7. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................44
8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................45
9. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................45
10. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. John : ........................................................45
11. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................45
12. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................46
13. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................46
14. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................46
15. Deputy P.N. Troy ofSt.Brelade:.......................................................46

4. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Chief Minister............................47

1. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :..............................................................47 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................47
2. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................47
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................47
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................47
5. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier:........................................................48
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................48
7. Deputy P.N. Troy : ......................................................................48
8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................48
9. Deputy J.A Hilton:......................................................................49
10. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :..............................................................49 The Bailiff :...................................................................................49

PERSONAL STATEMENTS....................................................................49 The Bailiff :...................................................................................49

5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................49

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................50 The Bailiff :...................................................................................50

1. Connétable D.F. GrayofSt. Clement (Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee): ............................................................................50
2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):......................51

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................51

7. Draft F.B. Playing Fields (Sports Hall ) (Jersey) Law 200- (P.9/2007)..................51

Senator P.F. Routier:..........................................................................51

1. Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):..................51
2. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................52
3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................52
4. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................52
5. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................52 The Bailiff :...................................................................................52 Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin (Chairman of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel): .........................................................................................53 The Bailiff :...................................................................................53

8. Draft Shops (Sunday Trading) (No. 9) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.10/2007) ........53

The Bailiff :...................................................................................53 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development:............................53

1. Connétable G.W. Fisher of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Economic Development

- Rapporteur):..........................................................................53

2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................54 HM Attorney General, Mr. W.J. Bailhache , QC:..............................................54

3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains................................................................54
4. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................54
5. Connétable G.W. Fisher: ...............................................................54 The Bailiff :...................................................................................55 Deputy G.P. Southern (Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):..................55

9. Draft Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law 2003 (Appointed Day Act) (No. 4) Act 200- (P.17/2007)........................................................55

The Bailiff :...................................................................................55 9.1 Senator W. Kinnard:....................................................................55

10. Minimum Wage Level (P.23/2007) ......................................................56

The Bailiff :...................................................................................56

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................56
2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................58 Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: .....................................................................59 Senator P.F. Routier:..........................................................................59
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................60
4. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................61
5. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:................................................................62
6. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................62
7. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................63
8. Deputy P.N. Troy : ......................................................................63
9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................63 The Bailiff :...................................................................................64 H.M. Attorney General:......................................................................66

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................66

11. Draft Public Employees (Contributory Retirement Scheme) (General) (Amendment No. 9) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.42/2007) and Expression of Disapproval for Conduct in the name of Deputy Baudains (P.43/2007) .................................66

The Bailiff :...................................................................................67

PUBLIC BUSINESS (resumed)...............................................................67

12. Minimum Wage: Youth Rate (P.25/2007)..............................................67

The Bailiff :...................................................................................67

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................67
2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................68
3. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier:..........................................................69
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................69
5. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................70
6. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................70
7. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................71 Senator P.F. Routier:..........................................................................71
8. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................71
9. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................72 12.10 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................72 The Bailiff :...................................................................................73

13. Draft Employment (Minimum Wage) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.14/2007)...............................................................................74

Senator P.F. Routier:..........................................................................74 The Bailiff :...................................................................................74

1. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................74
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................75
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................75
4. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................75 The Bailiff :...................................................................................76

1. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................76

The Bailiff :...................................................................................76

2. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................76 The Bailiff :...................................................................................76
3. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................76 The Bailiff :...................................................................................76
4. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................76 The Bailiff :...................................................................................76

14. Planning Applications Panel: appointment of members (P.41/2007) - Request of Minister for Planning and Development under Standing Order 26(7)................77

The Bailiff :...................................................................................77

1. Senator F.E. Cohen (Minister for Planning and Environment):..........................77 The Bailiff :...................................................................................78

1. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................78
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................78
3. The Connétable of Grouville :........................................................78
4. Senator M.E. Vibert :................................................................78 The Bailiff :...................................................................................78
5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................78
6. Senator F.E. Cohen: .................................................................79 The Bailiff :...................................................................................79

2. Senator F.E. Cohen:....................................................................79
3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................79
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................79
5. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:..................................................79
6. Connétable T.J. du Feu of St. Peter:....................................................80
7. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................80
8. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................80
9. The Deputy of Trinity :..................................................................80 The Bailiff :...................................................................................80 Senator F.E. Cohen:..........................................................................80 14.10 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................81 14.11Senator W. Kinnard:....................................................................81

14.12Senator F.E. Cohen:....................................................................81 Deputy P.N. Troy : ............................................................................82 The Bailiff :...................................................................................82

15. Former Jersey College for Girls: proposed sale (P.30/2007) - deferral................84

1. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................84
2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................84

16. ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS..............84 Senator S. Syvret:............................................................................84 The Bailiff :...................................................................................84

1. The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee): 85
2. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................85
3. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................85
4. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................85
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................85
6. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................85 Senator B.E. Shenton:........................................................................86

7. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................86
8. Senator M.E. Vibert :....................................................................86

1. Senator L. Norman:..................................................................86
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................86 The Bailiff :...................................................................................86 Senator M.E. Vibert :..........................................................................87
3. The Deputy ofSt.Clement:..........................................................87 Senator B.E. Shenton:........................................................................87 The Bailiff :...................................................................................87
4. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye: .............................................................87
5. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................88 The Bailiff :...................................................................................88

17. The States sat in committee to discuss "Composition and election of the States Assembly: options for change" (R.97/2006)............................................88

The Bailiff :...................................................................................88

1. The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee): 88
2. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:................................................................89
3. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence : .............................................92 The Connétable of St. Clement:..............................................................92 H.M. Attorney General:......................................................................93 The Connétable of St. Clement:..............................................................97

4. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen:..........................................................97
5. Senator W. Kinnard:....................................................................98
6. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................99
7. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan of St. Helier : ......................................................99
8. Senator F.H. Walker :..................................................................100
9. Constable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen : ....................................................102 The Bailiff :..................................................................................103

Senator M.E. Vibert :........................................................................103 17.10 Deputy I.J. Gorst : .....................................................................103 17.11Senator S. Syvret:.....................................................................104

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................106 The Bailiff :..................................................................................106

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

QUESTIONS

1. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY D.W. MEZBOURIAN OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING  STAFF  SUSPENSIONS  AS A  RESULT  OF  DISCIPLINARY INFRACTIONS UP TO THE END OF 2006:

Question

Would the Chief Minister inform Members –

1. of the total number  of staff,  by  Department,  who  were  suspended  as  a  result  of disciplinary infractions duringthe year 2006 and in each case identify the employee group concerned, the nature ofthe alleged infraction, the period of suspension, and the means of disposal of the case?
2. out of the total number of staff who were suspended during the period 2000 to 2005 and who  remain suspended,  identify  in  each  case the  Department  concerned,  the employee  group concerned,  the  nature  of the alleged  infraction,  the  period  of suspension, and the means of disposal of the case?

Answer

The information requested by Deputy Mezbourian is given in the attached tables -

EMPLOYEE SUSPENSIONS

Table  A  – This  table  depicts  the number  of  employees  (defined  by  Department)  who  were suspended between January and December 2006

1 Case delayed due to employee signed off sick

2 Case significantly delayed due to employee signed off sick 3 Suspension extended due to a delay in case coming to court

Notes to Table A.

• Despite the Deputy asking for the nature of the infraction, this has not been given in this report as there is a concern that it could be possible to identify an individual from the description of the nature of the infraction. Given that a suspension is carried out in the first instance on an accusation that upon investigation could subsequently be unfounded, it could be considered reckless and unreasonable of the employer to run the risk of identifying an employee in this way. This is of particular concern in a small island community such as Jersey  where  an  individual's  professional  reputation  could  be  severely  affected  by  a spurious or unfounded allegation. However, it is factual to say that suspensions are carried out due to alleged behaviour or actions which, if proven, would constitute gross misconduct.
• There were 20 employees who were either suspended in 2006 or whose suspension carried on into 2006. They were made up of the following pay groups:

Civil Service x 5

Manual Workers x 3

Teachers x 1

Police x 3

4 Suspended for police investigation followed by internal investigation, no disciplinary case to answer and reinstated 5 Suspended for police investigation followed by internal investigation, no disciplinary case to answer and reinstated 6 Subject to investigation

7 Case significantly delayed due to employee signed off sick

8 Suspension lifted as after investigation, it was found that there was no case to answer

9 Case significantly delayed due to employee signed off sick

10 Suspension extended due to a delay in case coming to court

Nurses and Midwives x 6

Residential Child Care Officer x 1

Doctors/Dentists x 1

Following a report and recommendations presented to the States Employment Board (SEB) in May 2006, the situation regarding employee suspensions in the public sector has become more closely monitored. Foremost in that report were the recommendations that:

All suspensions be notified to the Employee Relations Section of the Chief Minister's Department at the time of the suspension thus enabling the level and duration of the suspension to be monitored; and,

Chief Officers to ensure that all suspensions were formally reviewed one month from the suspension date and no less frequently than a month thereafter.

The maximum time between suspension date and the disciplinary hearing be 8 weeks (with an expectation that it will be done before that time if possible).

• The SEB now reviews all employee suspensions by way of a twice yearly report.
• Despite the fact that 5 suspensions currently remain in place due to either the suspended employee being certified sick or the case requiring a lengthy and detailed investigation due to the nature of the alleged infraction, there is no doubt that the recommendations agreed by the SEB  are resulting  in a reduction  in the time  between  suspension and  disciplinary hearing. Clearly though, it remains the case that the Employer is unlikely to conduct a disciplinary hearing if a Police investigation is being conducted as it would not wish to risk interference in the legal process.
• Of the total of 20 employees under suspension, a total of 15 were actually suspended during 2006. Several of those cases have been delayed due to the need for an internal or external investigation or because the employee has been signed off sick. These are considered by the SEB to be genuine reasons for a delay to a case being resolved and if those cases are removed, the remaining cases were all dealt with within the recommended 8 week time period.

EMPLOYEE SUSPENSIONS (CONT.)

Table B – This Table depicts the number of employees (by department) who were suspended between 2002 and 2005 and who remain suspended.

Notes to Table B

• The 2nd part of the Deputy 's question was possibly aimed at a recent and highly publicized case. That case was significantly delayed due to the resulting Police investigation The particular case in question has now been decided in the Police Court and subsequently by a Disciplinary Hearing at which the employee in question was summarily dismissed.
• The case referred to above was clearly exceptional and it is the SEB's intention that such an unsatisfactory state of affairs is not repeated. It believes that the checks and balances it has put in to place will prevent such a repeat.
• In response to the specific question asked by the Deputy , no other employees suspended between 2002 and 2005 remain suspended at this time.

2. DEPUTY D.W. MEZBOURIAN OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING J' CATEGORY EMPLOYEES DURING THE PERIOD 2000 TO 2006: Question

Would the Chief Minister inform Members of all staff, by Department, who were employed as a j' category  employee  during  the  years  2000  to  2006  (inclusive)  and  in  each  case  identify  the following –

1. job title?
2. the number of applications received for each rôle, identified as being from Jersey and elsewhere?
3. salary band?
4. length of contract?
5. in cases where the contractterm has expired, whether the incumbent has been retained in the same rôle, been employed in a different rôle or left States' employment?

Answer

Information relating to unsuccessful applicants for positions with the States of Jersey is retained for a period of 12 months, and for this reason it is not possible to provide data prior to 2006 that would give an accurate reflection of the previous appointments made.

The attached data ( Appendix 1) identifies the members of staff recruited within the States of Jersey as a j' category essential employee for the period January to December 2006 in relation to items a, b, c, d of the Deputies question. In response to item (e) the majority of appointees remain in post apart from those identified as leavers in the final column.

The Human Resources function is currently going through a period of reorganisation which includes a review of all processes and the implementation of a new corporate Human Resource Information System in the autumn of 2007 which will allow more effective retention and analysis of recruitment data in the future.

Appendix 1 – J' Category Appointments 2006

Note 1: This information is not currently available from these departments, but will retrievable in future.

Note 2: This appointment was made before the end of 2005, with the postholder taking up his appointment in early 2006. The records relating to the other applicants have not been retained, in accordance with agreed policy.

3. DEPUTY  S.S.P.A. POWER  OF  ST.  BRELADE  OF THE  MINISTER  FOR EDUCTION,  SPORT  AND CULTURE  REGARDING  THE  POTENTIAL  FOR COMPENSATION  TO  BE  POAID  TO  THE  NEW  OPERATOR  OF  THE AMPHIBIOUS SERVICE TOELIZABETHCASTLEINVIEWOFTHEPROPOSED CLOSURE OF THE CASTLE UNTIL 1ST JUNE 2007:

Question

Would the Minister consider whether the new operator of the amphibious service to Elizabeth Castle should pay compensation to the Jersey Heritage Trust in view of the proposed closure of Elizabeth Castle and the non-availability of the Hydra Terra amphibious vehicles from the 1st April 2007 through to the 31st May 2007?

Answer

The contract entered into between the Jersey Heritage Trust and the new operator of the amphibious service to Elizabeth Castle includes provision for compensation in the event that the operator should fail to fulfil his obligations. If those obligations are not fulfilled, it will be for the Jersey Heritage Trust to determine whether to enforce such a provision, taking into account all relevant circumstances including the implications of any alternative interim arrangements made to facilitate access to the Castle.

4. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE ENVIRONMENT SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING WASTE DISPOSAL ISSUES: Question

Would the Chairman, with regard to waste disposal issues, advise members whether his Panel agrees with the current Transport and Technical Services proposals, and, if not, advise members -

1. what the current thinking of the Panel is?
2. the nature of any work being undertaken by the Panel?
3. when that work will be concluded?

Would the Chairman further advise whether the Panel has decided to brief members on alternative strategies for waste disposal, and, if so –

1. when the decision wastakenandwhatdatewaschosenonwhichsuch a briefing would be given?
2. whether that timescale is being met?

Answer

(a) (b) The Panel is undertaking a review of some aspects of the Transport and Technical Services proposals in respect of waste management in Jersey. The terms of reference are as follows -

1. To quantify the composition ofwaste within the residential and commercial collections.
2. To investigate the practicality and cost implications ofre-usingor recycling inexcessof 32% from the waste stream.
3. To investigate European and international markets for recycled goods and recyclable materials.
4. To examine existing technology for the treatment of food waste with thegreenwaste in a composting facility.
5. To examine systems/policies to encourage the public to play a more active role in recycling.

(c) The review is nearing completion and drafting of the report currently in progress. It is anticipated that the report will be published in April.

1. A decision to brief members on alternative strategies for waste management was taken on Thursday 11th January 2007 with the briefing to coincide with the publication of the above report.
2. The original timescale was for the briefing to be held at the end ofFebruaryor during March. As noted above, it is still the intention of the Panel to hold the briefing at the same time or shortly after the publication of the report to enable States members to gain the maximum benefit from the briefing.

5. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE CONCRETE DEGRADATION AT CONVENT COURT:

Question 1

1. Will the Minister release to members the content of the report on the stateof concrete degradation at Convent Court and if not, will he state on what grounds he feels justified to refuse?
2. Following the statements made to tenants in his Department's newsletter of the 16th February 2007, stating that refurbishment of Convent Court would cost £5 million, will the Minister reveal toMembers what estimates, if any, he has been given regarding the relative costs of refurbishment versus demolition and replacement of Convent Court, along with the respective costs for Caesarea Court?
3. Given the Minister's admissions on 27th February 2007 under questioning over plans for ConventCourtthathewasnot in possession ofallofthefacts,willheundertaketo come to the Assembly better prepared for notified questions in future?

Answer

1. I am happy to release the report on the concrete degradation affecting Convent Court.
2. When dealing with capital projectsofthis nature, the Department doesnot solicit 'estimates'. The Department has carried out a number of high-rise refurbishments over the years and is currently preparing tender documents in respect of The Cedars. This knowledge, together with the known requirements of a revamped Convent Court, to meet the needs of demographic change, highlight the need to spend in the regionof £4.5 and £5 million on refurbishing this 'tired' building. However the Property Plan is aiming to achieve so much more withan imaginative use of the site so as to improve the lives of existing tenants andthose also living in the surrounding area. The future for States tenants is nowso bright it is hard to understand why somewishto look for negativity, when none exists.
3. I am always well prepared when I attend the States Chamber. When the future for States tenants is so bright, it is regrettable that I havetodivert my timeand attention toanswering questions immersed in negativity.

Question 2

1. Does the Minister concurwiththe conclusion reached by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) in paragraph 52 ofthereport PAC1/2007 on the States Property Plan that "The Committee agrees with Mr. Ogley and Mr. Le Ruez that, as a matter of principle, the proceeds of the sale of capital assets should not be used to meet revenue expenditure"?.
2. If he does not agree, will he state his reasons and, if he does, will the Minister state why the plans outlined in P6/2007 of the Social Housing Property Plan do not follow this principle?

Answer

1. It may be helpful to Deputy Southern if he checked with Mr Ogley & Mr LeRuezasto their actual comments and the important point they were making.
2. The Housing Department's Property Plan is not using the proceeds from the sale of capital assets to meet revenue expenditure. The Department is investing money in an extensive refurbishment programme, planned maintenance and where appropriate, sheltered housing acquisitions, to protect and enhance assets for the Public of this Island. That is an intelligent and strategic use of a property portfolio.

6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE PAYMENT OF BENEFITS AND LONG TERM INCAPACITY ALLOWANCE:

Question 1

Does the Minister consider that the statement signed by General Practitioners on medical certificates "that in my opinion his/her incapacity is valid until..[a specified date]" indicates that the patient is incapable of work on that date and , if so, does he agree that by treating this date as the date on which the claimant can return to work, the department is in effect saving the payment of one day's sickness benefit?

Will the Minister give consideration to either treating the dates given on sickness certificates as inclusive, or to changing the wording to clarify the payment period?

Answer

No, I do not think that the date described as the "valid until date" indicates that the patient is incapable of work on that date. The incapacity continues until that date, but on the date entered the incapacity is no longer valid and the claimant will return to work or, if the incapacity continues, another certificate will be submitted. Therefore, there is no "saving" of benefit payment.

When the current medical certificates were introduced in 2004, thought was given to the words used to avoid unnecessary misunderstanding, before deciding upon the term valid until and general practitioners were advised. If general practitioners are confused, although I am not aware of any confusion, I would be happy to instruct the Department to re-issue guidance as to how a medical certificate should be completed to comply with the Law.

Question 2

Would the Minister inform members what "options for reducing or limiting expenditure on supplementation" mentioned in his answer of 27th February 2007 are under consideration in the ongoing review of the underlying reasons for the unforeseen rise in these costs and, in particular, will these options include the removal of the one third division of funding between employer/employee/taxpayer or the abolition of the contributions ceiling altogether?

Does the Minister intend to report the total 2006 supplementation figure to members and will he also report the findings of the review to the States?

Answer

It would be a strange review if I were able to consider any options for supplementation before the detailed analysis was undertaken. Options will be put forward on the completion of the analysis. The fundamental question of Social Security funding, including the proportion of funding and the earnings ceiling will be part of the review of Social Security outlined in RC 49/2004 which is due to begin after the income support system is implemented and will also inform the Triennial Actuarial Review for the period ending December 2006 .

The 2006 Supplementation figure will be published in the report and accounts which is presented to the States each year. The review of supplementation will also be reported to the States as clearly this is a fundamental feature of the scheme driven by law.

Question 3

1. Has the Minister yet received the report on Long Term Incapacity Allowance (LTIA) commissioned from Professor Stafford and can he yet say when he will release its findings to Members and the public?
2. In an answer on 19th April 2005, the Minister stated that it was possible to assess how many recipients of LTIA were in work but pointed said that an evaluation of a full year (2005) would be undertaken in order to establish meaningful trends. What meaningful trends, if any, have so far been identified in respect of -

1. The proportion of LTIA recipients in work?
2. The proportion of recipients requiring assistance from Parish welfare?

3. Figures revealed in parts (a) and (d) of his response on 19th April 2005, indicated that awards had been assessed on average at around 60 per cent of the maximum benefit previously awarded under previous schemes, and this amounted to £5.1 million in 2005. What sum, if any, has been factored into the funding of income supportto supplement the missing 40 per cent produced by the partial awards?

Answer

1. Professor Stafford will be presenting his reporttome later this month and it will be released to members and the public after that.
   2. LTIA has only been in place for two years. The Department's experience of new benefits is that it generally takes up to five years for any true trends to emerge from claim data. However, a snapshot assessment ofthe 2005/06 data showed that around 30% of LTIA claimants paid some contributions. Those with long-term illnesses would not have been permitted to work under the previous benefit system.

(b)(ii) I am unable to give any figures regarding the proportion of LTIA recipients receiving Parish

Welfare as the Department does not have any data regarding individuals receiving assistance from the Parishes. In my answer to the Deputy 's question on the 27 February 2007. I explained that the data gathering exercise for Income Support would provide more information on all claimants.

(c) It is wrong to assume that all LTIA recipients will require Income Support. As indicated above some may be working and able to support themselves. Those who are not able to work at present, will likely to already be receiving support from the Parish and the budget for Native Welfare transferred to the Social Security Department in May 2006. The whole of the Welfare budget (Native and Non Native) has already been factored into the funding of income support.

Question 4

1. Following the public consultation over income support, is it the Minister's intention to withdraw benefit from recipients, especially single parents with children aged over 11 years, who are judged to be not actively seeking full-time work, as is now proposed in the UK?
2. Does the Minister consider that people are more likely to return to the workplace or work more hours if there are greater financial incentives, and, if so, will he seek to ensure that the framework for income support he brings to the Assembly later this year achieves this?

Answer

1. It is not my intention to simply withdraw benefit from recipients. The whole purpose of Income Support is to consider the circumstances of households and, if at all possible, helpthem find genuine employment. This would apply to single parents as much as it would apply to nuclear families. The IncomeSupport system would also provide support whilst they look for work,but it would not support those who have the opportunity and capability to work but refuse to do so.
2. I do not necessarily agree that financial incentives are the only driver for people to return to work. I do recognise however, that financial incentives are important particularly to those seeking to extend their working hours. A balanced system has to have both incentives to betterment and penalties for those who do not work when they are perfectly capable of doing so. The Income Support system provides rights to individuals but also requires themto be responsible citizens and the framework I am developing will achieve this principle which was agreed in the States when the Income Support system was proposed.

7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING TEACHERS' PAY AWARDS:

Question

Will the Chief Minister inform members when the improved offer for the 2006 and 2007 pay awards was made to teachers' representatives, whether it was authorised by the States Employment Board, and, if so, whether all members of the Board were present?

Answer

The improved offer for the 2006 and 2007 pay awards was made to teachers' representatives at a meeting on 8th February 2007 and in writing on 9th February.

The decision to make the same improved offer to all pay groups (apart from Police and Prison Officers, who had already settled their 2006/07 awards following discussions with the Board during 2006) was indeed authorised by the States Employment Board, with all members present at the meeting. Teachers were not singled out as a pay group in this decision, and nor was any other pay group.

2. Oral Questions:

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the outcome of recent investigations into a letter written by Senator S. Syvret:

What lessons have been learnt from the outcome of recent investigations into the letter written by Senator Syvret?

Connétable D.F. Gray of St. Clement (Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures

Committee):

A code of conduct came into force with the new Standing Orders in December 2005. Standing Orders set out very clear procedures that must be followed by P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedure Committee) when the complaint is received or when P.P.C. has information by any other means that lead the Committee to believe that the code might have been broken. As the code has now been in operation for just over a year, P.P.C. decided at its meeting last Wednesday that it wished to review its operation to see if any changes are needed or if additional guidelines for Members should be issued to ensure that there is a shared understanding of what should be involved with complying. P.P.C. would be grateful to receive comments from Deputy Le Hérissier or any other Member to assist with this review.

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Would the President confirm that there is perhaps some ambiguity in the code insofar as complaints received via phone calls, the callers of whose names have apparently been forgotten, might not be a solid basis upon which to proceed?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I will draw the Deputy 's attention to 2 articles of the code, one which definitely states that if the Committee has knowledge that there is a breach of the code - not a complaint, a complaint does not have to be received - if the Committee has the knowledge that a breach could have occurred, then it is obligatory of the Committee to proceed with an investigation.

2. Deputy R.G. Hérissier:

Would the President confirm that there has been an irretrievable breakdown in relations insofar as the complainant defined the Committee as a bunch of Nazis and a group of silly, old men? Would he say that, therefore, the foundations for a good working relationship no longer exist? [Laughter]

The Connétable of St. Clement :

In the report that was issued about this complaint, I think you will find that the Committee answered that question.

Senator S. Syvret:

Could I, on a point of clarification, say that I did not call the Committee a bunch of Nazis? I said that trying to silence people's free speech was the kind of thing that one might expect of Nazi or Communist regimes. I think there is a subtle difference.

[Laughter]

3. Senator S. Syvret:

I just have a supplementary question to the Chairman. Will he buy a copy of my book when it comes out?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

It just depends whether it is affordable, Sir.

2. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence of the Chief Minister regarding statistical records of additional people taking up residence in the Island consequential upon the States employing (j) category staff:

Would the Chief Minister advise Members what records are kept, if any, of the number of additional people taking up residence in the Island, be that spouse and partner and/or children, consequential to the States employing J Category staff?

Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):

As outlined in the Appointments Commission Recruitment guidelines, all appointments to the States of Jersey are made on the basis of fair and open competition. For this reason, the details required from an applicant to a post are only those which are needed to ensure that the person's competence and experience will be fairly assessed against agreed criteria relevant to the post. Therefore, no data is obtained or recorded regarding any family members that may take up residence in the Island as a consequence of employing (j) Category staff. Following agreement in principle in June 2005 by the States to the Migration Policy, a population office has been established which is responsible for the development of policies which will include the creation of a population register that will enable the future monitoring and regulation of the total residence population.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

Is the Minister aware that sometime ago, I think the 2001 Census produced a figure of 1.8 dependants per (j) Category employee on the Island? Is that figure still valid, does he know?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I cannot give a precise answer to that but I will establish the answer to it. I think the States should record that, of course, the vast majority of (j) Category employees taken on by the States are, in fact, teachers and nurses; essential frontline staff.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Can the Minister expand on the total number of (j) cats. that are now being employed in the Island since the change of policy from fixed term (j) cats. to permanent (j) cats?

Senator F.H. Walker :

No, Sir, I cannot but again, I will get that information.

3. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :

It seems to me that in the Chief Minister's response, it is quite correct that we employ (j) Category staff on the basis of fair and open competition but to me, Sir, that does not preclude - having appointed someone as (j) category - the fact that we could then make inquiries as to how many additional people are being brought into the Island as a response of that appointment and I wonder whether the Chief Minister would comment on that.

Senator F.H. Walker :

Even that is fraught with some difficulty because I am afraid the Human Rights Legislation kicks-in here and there could be, I am advised, some difficulty in that respect but I think what the House should take comfort from here is the second part of my answer relating to the population register and the fact that when that is in place, then of course, it will be possible to know the exact number of people in Jersey and in what capacity they are living in the Island.

Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :

I am not sure from the Chief Minister's answer whether he was telling the House categorically that it is not possible to record, having appointed a (j) category employee, the dependants who would come to the Island as a result of that appointment and I wonder whether the Chief Minister can clarify for me whether he is stating that categorically because of Human Rights?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I am not stating that categorically this morning and I have to say that as a result of the question asked by the Deputy , I am instituting some further inquiries of my own to establish what exactly is possible and what is not possible and I myself do not have a 100 per cent clear picture of that at this particular time.

4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier :

May I ask the Chief Minister a question in relation to the amounts of people from (j) category appointments that are left in place in the Island after they cease to become employed by the States. I wonder, perhaps not having that answer today, whether or not the Chief Minister might get back to us on the impacts of using the (j) category licence in respect of the people who are no longer employed by those departments remaining in the Island and perhaps remaining in positions and households and houses and buildings, flats, et cetera, that might have an overall impact. I wonder if he could get back to us on that situation?

Senator F.H. Walker :

Yes, Sir, I will get back on that but, of course, we should remember that all (j) category employees both in the public and the private sector have to be approved under the Regulation of Undertakings legislation which controls the numbers very strictly indeed. We also have to remember the importance of (j) category employees to the Island - not just the public sector but to the economy - and I am sure Members will recall, because I am aware there is concern about house prices and house availability, the answer I gave to earlier questions at a previous sitting where the Statistics Department state quite clearly and strongly that it is not the (j) category employees who are driving up the price of houses in Jersey, it is demand from local people which is doing that. The number of (j) category houses in the economy is very small indeed.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Would the Chief Minister state which Human Rights considerations preclude the keeping of such records at present that will not preclude the keeping of such records when we have a population register?

Senator F.H. Walker :

As the Deputy is well aware, the population register has been subject - and the proposal for the Population Register has been subject - to stringent review against the Human Rights Legislation and when the proposal comes forward to establish the population register, it will be fully compliant with the Human Rights legislation.

6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Picking up on the Chief Minister's comment about local people driving-up prices, does he, therefore, not accept the contention of the Jersey Association of Architects that it is the slowness or indeed, the denial of the Planning Applications Panel to applications which is stoking-up demand?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I have no knowledge of that question. That is a question for the Planning Minister. I have seen the article. I have no further information on it. I would be extremely surprised, to say the least, if that turned out to be the case.

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding a Ministerial response to the "Overdale, the closure of Leoville and McKinstry Ward s" Scrutiny report:

When will the Ministerial response to the Scrutiny Report entitled: "Overdale, the closure of Leoville and McKinstry Ward s" be available?

Senator S. Syvret (The Minister for Health and Social Services): I hope to have it completed and with the Greffe later this week, Sir.

1. Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity :

I wonder if the Minister could inform the House if any patients are still at McKinstry Ward , please?

Senator S. Syvret:

I would need to check to get the latest figure but my understanding was that some patients were still there because of complexities and the need to identify appropriate places to put them but certainly, we are moving closer towards being able to close down those 2 patient areas.

2. Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement :

Could the Minister confirm when those patients will be removed and to where they will be removed?

Senator S. Syvret:

I cannot give a time when the people when will be removed. There are a variety of factors at play. For example, the clinical condition of the individuals concerned may make moving them a high risk activity and, therefore, they will not be moved. I cannot give a precise time as to when all of the individuals will be moved. Where they will be moved to will be high quality, appropriate settings principally in the private sector.

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Building on that, would the Minister tell us whether the respite facilities at Overdale have been closed and whether his department is now purchasing all those replacement facilities from the private sector?

Senator S. Syvret:

Not entirely, Sir. We are certainly purchasing some of those facilities from the private sector. There is still some usage being made of the Overdale facility which is regrettable. As we have repeatedly stated, we do not believe the building to be adequate and indeed, that is reflected in the great downturn of people taking up the respite facility at Overdale, so certainly, we are looking to a move as quickly as circumstances allow to make sure that better, higher quality respite facilities are available.

4. Deputy J.A.Martin of St. Helier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding Ministerial study of the "Jersey Telecom Privatisation" Scrutiny report:

Has the Minister had time to study the Scrutiny Report, S.R.5/2007 - Jersey Telecom Privatisation and will he now state which of the 5 recommendations he agrees with and which he will act upon. Thank you, Sir.

Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

I have not had as much time as I would have liked but I have indeed studied the Scrutiny Report and the potential sale of Jersey Telecom. I found the report helpful to some extent and I am pleased that the Panel recognises that it is a combination of competition, regulation and privatisation that is most likely to deliver the best telecommunication services to the people of Jersey. It is not possible to give a detailed response that the Scrutiny report merits in the limited time available to me, so I will publish a further written response in the next week or so. I do, however, see merit in some of the Scrutiny report's recommendations. I agree, for instance, that a sale to a private equity group should be treated with caution. Members should know that I will treat any approach with caution but private equity groups may well require particular care and to only be considered if we are certain that they will invest in Jersey Telecom and improve the quality of telecommunication services for Islanders. I also agree that there may be a case for introducing a T.U.P.E. (Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment)) type of legislation in Jersey as soon as possible. This, however, has no relevance to the proposed sale of Jersey Telecom where there will be protection in place for employers as good as or better than they would receive under T.U.P.E. The Panel proposes a review of the powers of J.C.R.A. (Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority) but provides no evidence that they are inadequate. The J.C.R.A. has already strongly refuted the Panel's assertions in this respect and all the evidence shows that the J.C.R.A. has sufficient power to regulate a privately-owned Jersey Telecom. I will, however, commit to working with the Minister for Economic Development to provide whatever assurances States Members feel they require and if the regulatory framework does go bust, there is no need for the States to retain partial ownership in Jersey Telecom. The Panel recommends that the States sell a minority share but does not make any case as to why it should. The advice I have received is that there will be little or no interest in Jersey Telecom if they only offer a minority stake and certainly, we will not attract major players in the telecommunications market. Finally, the Panel has proposed that a full cost benefit analysis is undertaken before sale. This would be a costly exercise and my advisors are not aware of such an analysis ever having been carried out anywhere else in the world prior to a sale but we are willing to talk to the Panel's expert advisor to understand the rationale behind this

recommendation and whether it has any merit.

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:

On recommendation 3 - and this really worries me and I think really should worry other Members of the House - we may be not so sure that the J.C.R.A. does not have the legal power, our problem being that the only assurance that we have if they have to fight a court case is from the Economic Minister telling us, when pressed, what the budget was: "Well, how long is a piece of string?" As Treasury Minister, Sir, is the Minister happy with this and could he also update us on the powers of the J.C.R.A. on how effective they have been in getting Jersey Telecom to give Sure Mobile number portability because I think this is not happened at the moment. Thank you, Sir.

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I am perfectly happy that the powers within the Telecommunications Law and the Competition Law are more than sufficient for the J.C.R.A. to deliver the services they need to do fully and properly. As to number portability, that is a question which will need to be addressed to the Minister of Economic Development. I understand that the J.C.R.A. is indeed working to find a constructive solution to that particular issue.

Deputy J.A. Martin:

I must push him on the budget, our concern is that if the J.C.R.A. has to take on a multi-national company, do they have the budget to go to court? We cannot find out a definite: "Yes." They have a very limited budget to backup their powers.

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

The budget for the J.C.R.A. is a matter which is, to some extent, within their own remits because they omitted to charge to the operators, sufficient fee in order to recover the costs of regulating that particular industry, so I believe that were additional budget to be required the J.C.R.A. already has the power to achieve it.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Does the Minister accept that the answer he has just given is incorrect when he refers to action taken under the Competition Law which has to be funded by the Economic Minister, not under the Telecoms Law and if it is a Competition Law ruling, it has to be funded by this House?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I do take the point, Sir. Were it a matter for competition, it would be funded by this House and that will need to be addressed but we do not, at present, have any particular indication of the needs for that budget or in which area it might be required.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

In denying that there was any problem with the powers of the J.C.R.A. to regulate adequately should the Jersey Telecoms be taken over by a multi-national, has the Minister paid attention to the limitations stated on page 69 of the report that are headlined: "5. The regulatory tools are not optimal" and it is a statement from the J.C.R.A. themselves?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I believe the J.C.R.A. will make their own case for the extent with which their comments are correctly reported. I repeat that I have every confidence that J.C.R.A. do have all the tools within the law to deliver the services and the regulation that they need.

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

The Minister said that the report was helpful to some extent. To what extent was it not helpful?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

As I have tried to outline in the answer, Sir, there were some recommendations which I do not believe have been fully justified. For example, although there was a request for a cost benefit analysis that was perhaps not explained as fully as it might be. As far as the powers of the J.C.R.A., I would say that was not necessarily argued as well as it might be; it was argued at some length but I think the conclusions do not necessarily support the facts within the paper. As I say, it is a mixed paper and there were some very helpful comments within it.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

In criticising the report on the Jersey Telecoms Privatisation, the Minister refers to a lack of justification for some of its recommendations. Does he not accept that there is no justification given anywhere in any documentation that he has produced for the a priori assumption that 100 per cent sale of Jersey Telecom is the only way forward?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

If I have not made that conclusion of mine clear in documentation so far, I will make it amply clear when I come to debate the proposition when we do that.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the tendering and selection process for the new Jersey Tourism website:

Would the Minister advise Members of the tendering and selection process adopted for the £250,000 contract for the new Jersey Tourism website and indicate whether this covers ongoing site maintenance?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):

I hope Members will forgive me if I sway a little. I am only on one leg at the moment. I am very confident that a robust process was followed in awarding this contract and that the Island will benefit from a new, well-designed website that enables us to compete in the global market place. The tender for Jersey.com followed all guidelines laid down in financial direction at 5.7. Seven companies invited to tender; 3 local, 4 from the United Kingdom. Two of the local suppliers decided to join forces and produce one reply to the tender. Of the 7 short-listed, there was a matrix criterion with a weighted average for importance to different elements of the project and each tender was scored against this matrix. The top 2 scoring tenders were invited to give a presentation to a panel made up of the Chief Executive of Economic Development, E.D. (Economic Development) officials and the Chairman of the Tourism Development Fund. The short list consisted of one U.K. and the 2 local companies that had teamed jointly together. Following presentations, a recommendation paper was given to members of the T.D.F. (Tourism Development Fund) for consideration. The paper and support documents were discussed and a unanimous decision was made by the T.D.F. to me as Minister. The £250,000 will not include maintenance, this is covered by the Economic Development operational budget. The global change in consumer purchasing habits means a state-of-the-art website is a must. Of all international travel, 43 per cent will be purchased online this year. If Jersey is to compete for its share of tourism, an outstanding web presence is essential. The new site will be completely customer focussed and I expect that it will increase substantially a conversion and increase visitor spending.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

In the documentation, the Minister refers to a significant 19 per cent increases in the total sales year on year between 2007 and 2006 but the total sales achieved by this website amount to a mere £250,000. Does he really believe that spending £250,000 to get the £250,000 is value for money?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I think it is important for me to explain that there are 2 elements that I think the Deputy needs some assistance with. There is the actual website which is Marketing Jersey and there is the actual booking engine which is combined, all the hotels in Jersey are linked into the booking system and the figures that he is talking about is in fact the amount of money that is the direct sales that engine drives and so the website is consisting of 2 things. It is a showcase for Jersey and there is a separate booking engine. From that Jersey.com website, members of the public - travellers - may well be booking on all sorts of different sites; Expedia, Flybe, B.A., all sorts of other sites. There are 2 separate issues there. What is important is that figure of 43 per cent of international travel now booked online. That is why we need a strong Jersey.com website presence and an integrating travel booking system which is what we both now have.

2. Deputy P.V.F Le Claire:

The Minister said that the £250,000 cost of the website which he has defended as being necessary for keeping up to date with modern tourism is not inclusive of operational costs which are borne out by the department in relation to their annual expenditure. Could I ask what are the anticipated maintenance costs of these websites and these systems for this year and the years in the future?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

Economic Development is part now of the corporate I.T. system which is under the Chief Minister's Department. We get excellent I.T. support from the essential service of Computer Services and it is all basically rolled into that but we have individual people based at Tourism in order to run the website. The most important thing is this new website is going to mean that we are going to be able to put content on and change the website in a much more up to date manner than we have. We are going to be able to control the D.N.A. (deoxyribonucleic acid)of this website in a way that we have never done so before, so not only are we going to be spending much more time with our own people putting on content but also the operational aspects of it; the actual way the website works will be run by the Computer Services Department. If the Deputy is interested in knowing those specific costs, I can certainly give him those. They are certainly within the budgets that we have available.

3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

It does seem strange that one would take on board a way of consulting that extends to 7 companies, spending £250,000 developing a website and not know what the maintenance costs of that website will be once it is operational. Then, to tell us that there are people in the States of Jersey that are going to be able to add content and are going to be able to work within that content to update it, basically tells me, from my knowledge of websites, they are going to be fully conversant with what they are being given and not to have taken into account and not to know how much it is going to cost to continue to fund. This does seem to be rather disappointing. I wonder if the Minister might get back to us as to what the actual expenditure will be, please.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

The fact is the £250,000 is for designing a website and that is the whole content management system and once that overall machine is in place, you then put on all the additional content - and that is the important thing to keep live, to keep up to date, special offers, the latest advertising material that we are putting forward. That is the content provided, but it is absolutely vital that we have the website engine to do that and that is the £250,000 together with the overall structure of the website interface with the consumer. It is the additional content that will be added from the Tourism Department together with our marketing advisors and it is the Chief Minister's Department and the Computer Services Department that will run it. There are 3 different disciplines there, all being joined into one; moreover, it is the existing budget of the operational costs which are already budgeted for and if he wants those figures, I am happy to give to them to him.

4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Would the Minister not acknowledge that in terms of the remit of his department in other areas such as the development of a strong, local I.T. base, it would have been better had he encouraged local suppliers, for example, to develop alliances with U.K. based suppliers in order that the skills were developed in co-operation and strengthened on-Island?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I am no less a supporter of local businesses and I want to see and indeed, the Showcase Awards for Enterprise showed what expertise we have in Jersey. I would have loved this tender to go a local organisation and indeed, I explained in my answer that a local organisation was on the short- list. At the end of the day, we have to take professional advice and I have to take the advice of the T.D.F. and they believed that the U.K. company in this case was the best person and the best organisation to deliver that website. That does not mean to say and that is not in any way critical of the local capability. We are working as hard as we can with local organisations to raise their competencies, get further and indeed, of all of the people, the Chairman of the T.D.F. is a member of the Chamber of Commerce and I am sure that he thought very hard when he had to make that decision which was in the best interests of the Island.

5. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade :

Is this new website going to include a facility for booking one ticket to go to various local attractions just as you can for trips to London because that is an important part of the tourism brief although I understand that Elizabeth Castle will not be open until the beginning of June.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

The Deputy is absolutely right and indeed, Deputy Southern , in his question earlier in respect of the amount of money that we are putting through the website up, by the way, 26 per cent on 2007 in January to February figures up to 144, that is just for the moment on tourism bed nights. There are some 4,200 bed nights booked on the website. I know it is small in overall terms but what we want is a booking engine which my very good friend, the Assistant Minister for Education, Sport and Culture and I are trying to achieve; an integrated booking system which is now well under way that not only can you book your hotel room but you can book your visitor attraction and you can book your flight. A whole integrated booking engine is what we are trying to achieve.

The Bailiff :

There are a number of Members who wish to ask supplementary questions and we will close soon but may I encourage the Minister please, to be succinct in his replies?

6. Deputy J.A. Martin:

Could the Minister inform the House if this was the cheapest tender, the highest tender or where did it range in around the tenders? Thank you, Sir.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

The tender was for £250,000 worth of budget.

7. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

Would the Economic Development Minister undertake to assess how much money is being spent States-wide on the development and maintenance of websites within the States' budget together with, perhaps, the Chairman of the P.A.C. (Public Accounts Committee) to identify whether or not the States is not running simultaneously budgets that could not be contained within the States themselves? It does seem, on the surface, many websites have been developed, updated and refined and perhaps we might need some uniformity in relation to the expenditure and manufacture of these systems.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I think that is an answer properly directed to the Chief Minister, if I may say, but Corporate I.T. (Information Technology) is changing the way we are dealing with content management for a variety of different websites across the States and efficiencies as part of the £20 million of efficiency savings are being delivered already. But, that is a question properly directed to the Chief Minister's Department.

6. Senator B.E. Shenton of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding free parking for departmental staff:

Would the Minister advise Members whether he will be reviewing the free parking offer to staff within his department given his commitment to environmental taxes and user-pays policies?

Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):

Demonstrating a commitment to the environment is something that we should all be seeking to achieve, both States Members and across the States' Departments. I launched eco-active to begin the process of helping people to make environmentally conscious decisions and I am aware from the tremendous response it received that it has struck a cord with a great many Islanders. The provision of free parking is a complex subject that the States have visited on several occasions in recent years, both for States Members and for members of staff. I would not like to see it act as an obstacle to addressing the important changes to our environmental behaviour that we can and should be getting on with immediately. While there are a few sites within St. Helier where employees are able to park free of charge, the majority of St. Helier-based staff pay for parking in public car parks or use public transport or walk. Out of town the availability and timing of public transport means that it can be difficult to get to and from work using public transport. It would be

impractical to levy a workplace parking charge on one group of employee and not others as this would cause inequality, but there are practical changes that we can make now. As a department we are committed to exploring and promoting the use of green forms of transport. For instance, we have an electric scooter at Howard Davies Farm, which can be used for making business trips to town, and like other departments we will need to introduce green travel plans to reduce the number of car journeys associated with travelling to and from work. I will, however, happily undertake to further reviewing the parking arrangements of all Planning and Environment staff to see if there are practical and realistic ways of reducing car journeys and promoting a more environmentally conscious example.