States Meeting Transcript - 30/01/2007

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 30th JANUARY 2007

QUESTIONS......................................................................................9

1. Written Questions........................................................................9

1. SENATOR J.L. PERCHARD OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE CRIMINAL OFFENCES AND DRUG TRAFFICKING CONFISCATION FUNDS:............................................9
2. SENATOR J.L. PERCHARD OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE COMMUNITY SAFETY FUND:.................................12
3. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMITÉ DES CONNÉTABLES REGARDING THE RETRIEVAL OF FEES FOR NURSING AND RESIDENTIAL CARE: ..............................................17
4. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING RESIDENCES THE DEPARTMENT OWNS:...............................................................18
5. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE PROPOSED RELOCATION OF AN ENERGY FROM WASTE PLANT FROM BELLOZANNE TO LA COLLETTE:.......................................................................18
6. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING 2 BOREHOLES RECENTLY DRILLED IN ORDER TO DETERMINE THE SOURCE OF JERSEY'S DEEPER WATER:...............................................................................19
7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE SALE OF PART OF THE SOCIAL HOUSING STOCK AND THE IMPACT OF "BUY TO LET" SALES:................................................22
8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING APPLICATION FORM IS.0IT AND THE MINIMUM WAGE: ................................................................................24
9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING WAGE NEGOTIATIONS: .............................................27
10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE FORMAL RECORD OF MEETINGS:............................27
11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY

AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE FORMAL RECORD OF MEETINGS REGARDING THE PROPOSED SALE OF JERSEY TELECOM:....................28

2. Oral Questions...........................................................................28

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour of the Minister for Housing regarding sale of States housing stock homes to tenants:........................................................29 Senator T.J. Le Main (The Minister for Housing): ............................................29

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................29

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................29
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................29
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:...............................................29
5. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin : ..........................................................30
6. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour:...............................................30
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................30

2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the borehole at La Rocque drilled for research purposes:.....................30 Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):...........................31

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................31
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................32
3. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade : ..................................................32
4. Senator S. Syvret (Minister for Health and Social Services):............................32
5. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................32

3. Deputy K.C. Lewis of the Chief Minister regarding a cap' on population in Jersey:....33 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................33

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................33
2. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................33
3. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................34
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................34
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................34

4. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding recommendations arising from Scrutiny investigation of proposed sale of Jersey Telecom: ...............................................................................34 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ..........................35

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
2. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................35
3. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. John : ........................................................35
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
   5. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding criteria for the allocation of funding from the Drug Trafficking Confiscation Fund:...................................................................................36 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ..........................36

1. The Connétable of Grouville :...........................................................36
2. The Connétable of Grouville :...........................................................36
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier : ..................................................36
4. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................37
5. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................37
6. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................37

6. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of the Chief Minister regarding impact on Jersey of the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change:............37

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................38
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................38
3. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................38
4. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................39
5. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................39

7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s regarding the savings limit (£12,114) allowable to a spouse whose partner is in care:.................39 Connétable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen (the Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s):..........39

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................40
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................40
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................40

8. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Chief Minister regarding public sector pay claims:........41 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................41

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................42
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................42
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................42

7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................42
8. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................43

3. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Social Security.............43

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................43 Senator P.F. Routier (The Minister for Social Security): ......................................43
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................43
3. Deputy A. Breckon of St. Saviour:......................................................43

3.3.1 Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................44

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................44
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................44
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................45
7. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................45

3.7.1 Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................45

8. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................45
9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................46

3.9.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................46

10. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................46

4. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Housing....................47

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................47 Senator T.J. Le Main (The Minister for Housing): ............................................47
2. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................47
3. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................47
4. Deputy S. Pitman of St. Helier:.........................................................48

4.4.1 Deputy S. Pitman:......................................................................48

5. Deputy S.C. Ferguson..................................................................48

4.5.1 Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................48

6. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................49

4.6.1 The Deputy of St. John:................................................................49

7. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................49
8. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................49

4.8.1 Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................50

9. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................50

4.9.1 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................50 Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ....................................................................51

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................52

5. The Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel regarding the progress of the review of the proposal to sell Jersey Telecom ..........................................52

5.1 Deputy G.P. Southern (The Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):........52

6. The Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the proposed sale of the former Sunshine Hotel and Cottage.............................................................53

6.1 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ....................53

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................53
2. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................53
3. Deputy A. Breckon:....................................................................54
4. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier:..........................................................54

7. Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the appointment of the Assistant Minister ..................................................................................54

7.1 Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):.....................54

7.1.1 Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity :..........................................................55

8. The Chief Minister regarding an anthem for Jersey...................................55

8.1 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):.............................................55

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................56

9. Draft Employment Tribunal (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.135/06)....56

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................56 9.1 Senator P.F. Routier (The Minister for Social Security):................................56 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................56 Senator P.F. Routier..........................................................................56 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................57 Deputy A. Breckon (Chairman of the Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel):..57 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................57

10. Draft Sea Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.174/06) .............................................................57

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................57

1. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):......................57 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................58 Deputy G.P. Southern (Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):..................58 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :........................................................................58 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................59
2. The Connétable of St. Ouen:............................................................59
3. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................59 The Deputy Bailiff :............................................................................59

11. Draft Sea Fisheries (Minimum Size Limits) (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.148/06)...........................................................................59

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................59

1. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Economic Development):......................59
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................60
3. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:..................................................60
4. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................60
5. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade:...............................................60
6. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................60
7. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................61
8. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier:...................................................61
9. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................61 Deputy R.C. Duhamel:........................................................................62 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :........................................................................62 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................62 Deputy G.P. Southern (Chairman of the Economic Development Scrutiny Panel):............64

12. Draft Sea Fisheries (Log Books and Landing Declarations) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.149/06)................................................................................65

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................65

1. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................65

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................65
2. The Deputy ofSt.John:..............................................................65
3. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................66
4. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................66 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................66 Deputy G.P. Southern (Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):..................66

2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................66

1. Deputy C.H. Egré of St. Peter : ......................................................66
2. Senator B.E. Shenton: ...............................................................67
3. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................67 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................67

13. Fulfilment Industry Policy (P.152/06) ..................................................68

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................68 Senator P.F. Routier:..........................................................................68 The Deputy of St. John:......................................................................68 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................69

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................69 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................69

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................70

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................70 Deputy G.P. Southern :........................................................................73 Senator F.H. Walker :.........................................................................73 Deputy G.P. Southern :........................................................................73
   2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................74
   3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................76

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................77 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................77

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................77

PUBLIC BUSINESS (resumed)...............................................................77

13. Fulfilment Industry Policy (P.152/2006) (continued)................................77

4. Connétable G.W. Fisher of St. Lawrence:..............................................77 Miss S.C. Nicolle Q.C., H.M. Solicitor General:..............................................78
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................78 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :........................................................................80 Deputy G.P. Southern :........................................................................80 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................80

14. Draft Planning and Building (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Law (P.157/06)............80

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................80

1. Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):.....................80 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................81 Deputy R.C. Duhamel (Chairman of the Environment Scrutiny Panel): ......................81
2. The Deputy Bailiff :.....................................................................81

1. Senator L. Norman:..................................................................82
2. Deputy P.N. Troy ofSt.Brelade:....................................................82
3. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye: .............................................................82
4. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:...........................................................83
5. The Connétable of Grouville :........................................................83
6. Deputy J.B. Fox:....................................................................83
7. Deputy J.J. Huet of St. Helier:.......................................................83
8. Connétable T.J. du Feu of St. Peter : .................................................83
9. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................83
10. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:.............................................................83
11. Senator L. Norman: ................................................................84 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................84

3. The Deputy Bailiff :.....................................................................84

1. Senator F.E. Cohen: .................................................................84
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis : .................................................................85
3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................85
4. Senator L. Norman:..................................................................85
5. Senator F.E. Cohen: .................................................................85

4. The Deputy Bailiff :.....................................................................85

15. Draft Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Jersey) Regulations (P.162/06)............86

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................86

1. Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):..................................86
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................86
3. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................87
4. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................87
5. Senator W. Kinnard:....................................................................87 The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................87 Deputy ofSt. Martin (Chairman of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel):........88

16. Draft Income Tax (Amendment No. 28) (Jersey) Law 200- (P.168/06)................88

The Deputy Bailiff :...........................................................................88

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ....................88

1. Senator J.L. Perchard: ...............................................................90
2. Deputy R.C. Duhamel:..............................................................93
3. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade:.....................................................94
4. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................95
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................96
6. Senator F.H. Walker :................................................................97
7. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondre of St. Lawrence:..........................................98
8. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan of St. Helier:....................................................99
9. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier : ..........................................100
10. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :............................................................101
11. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:...........................................................103 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................104 Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (Chairman of the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel):..................106

2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:................................................................106 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................107
3. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:................................................................107

The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................107

4. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:................................................................107 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................107

5. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:................................................................107 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................107
6. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:................................................................107 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................107 Senator T.A. Le Sueur:......................................................................108 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................108

The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................108

17. Draft Howard Davis Farm (Partial Abrogation of Covenant) (Jersey) Law 200- (P.170/06)...............................................................................108

The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................108

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ...................109
2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources):...........109
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ..............................................................112
4. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:..............................................................112
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :................................................................112
6. Senator F.H. Walker :..................................................................113
7. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:...............................................................113
8. The Deputy of Grouville :..............................................................115
9. Deputy K.C. Lewis :...................................................................116 17.10The Deputy of Trinity :................................................................116 17.11 Deputy P.N. Troy : ....................................................................117 17.12 Deputy A. Breckon:...................................................................117 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................119 Senator S. Syvret:...........................................................................119 17.13 Deputy S.C. Ferguson:................................................................119 17.14 Deputy J.B. Fox:......................................................................120 17.15 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ............................................................121 17.16 Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ............................................................121 17.17The Connétable of St. Ouen:..........................................................122 17.18The Connétable of St. Lawrence:......................................................122 17.19 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondre:.............................................................123

The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................124 Deputy P.J.D. Ryan (Chairman of the Corporate Service Scrutiny Panel): ..................126

18. Composition and Election of the States Assembly: options for change (R.97/2006)..126

The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................126 Senator S. Syvret:...........................................................................126 Connétable D.F. Gray of St. Clement (Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee):

........................................................................................126 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondre:...................................................................127 Senator S. Syvret:...........................................................................127 Senator M.E. Vibert :........................................................................127 Deputy G.P. Southern :......................................................................127 Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:.....................................................................127 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................127 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :.......................................................................128 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................128 Senator S. Syvret:...........................................................................128 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................128

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ..................129

The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................129

19. The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee): ........................................................................................129 Deputy G.P. Southern :......................................................................130 Deputy A. Breckon:.........................................................................130 Senator T.J. Le Main: .......................................................................130 Deputy S.Power:............................................................................130 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................130 The Deputy of St. Martin:...................................................................130 The Connétable of St. Ouen:................................................................130

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................130 The Deputy Bailiff :..........................................................................131

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

QUESTIONS

1. Written Questions

1. SENATOR  J.L.  PERCHARD  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  TREASURY AND RESOURCES  REGARDING  THE  CRIMINAL  OFFENCES  AND  DRUG TRAFFICKING CONFISCATION FUNDS:

Question 1

Under the Proceeds of Crime (Jersey) Law 1999 a Criminal Offences Confiscations Fund was established. Would the Minister advise members of –

1. the current balance of the fund?
2. the itemised detail (on an annual basis) of how the fund has been applied since 1999 and the total cost of each application?

Answer

1. The balance as at 30th September 2006 (the latest available date) was £10,645,600.
2. Since 1999 funds have been applied as follows -

PROJECT Approved  Spent Date  to date

£ £

Law Officers - Salaries  2003 Law Officers - Rent  2003 Law Officers - Overheads  2003 Law Officers - Salaries  2004 Law Officers - Rent  2004 Law Officers - Overheads  2004 Law Officers - Salaries  2005 Law Officers - Rent  2005 Grant -Greenfields Centre  2005 Law Officers - Salaries  2006 Law Officers - Rent  2006 Law Officers - Overheads  2006 Viscounts - Overheads 2006

94,859 133,066 50,257 94,859 133,066 50,257 159,686 156,261 750,000 304,119

157,270 90,482 20,000

Judicial Greffe - Salaries  2006 90,000 Magistrates Court – Building and staff costs 2006 200,000 Grant - Home Affairs RIPL  2006 145,000 2,629,182

Question 2

Under the Drug Trafficking Offences (Jersey) Law 1988 a Drug Trafficking Confiscations Fund was established.  Would the Minister advise members of –

1. the current balance of the fund?
2. the itemised detail (on an annual basis) of how the fund has been applied since 1989 when the Law came into force and the total cost of each application?

Answer

1. The balance as at 30th September 2006 was £3,226,000 (includes £2.9mof funds seized pending investigations).
2. Although the Fund was established in 1989, it is only in recent years that funds have been applied, as follows -

PROJECT Approved  Spent

Date  to date

£ £

Health Questionnaire

Police - Drug Squad

Training Initiative for Customs officers

IT Support for Drugs Intelligence Bureau

Police - Confidential

Health - Alcohol & Drugs Service - Shared Care Community Methadone Programme

Health - Methadone Programme

Health - Jersey Addiction Group

Customs - Airport / Harbours Departure Posters

Prison - Drug Detection Equipment

1995  1,288 1995  2,315 1998  1,789

1998  1,739 1999   56,931 1999   13,800

1999  7,880

1999  1,158 2000   10,000 2001   30,310

Customs - CCTV Surveillance System

Health - Outreach Needle Exchange Worker

Customs - Drug Detection Dog Facility

Customs and Harbours - Elizabeth Terminal Custody Suite Substance Misuse Strategy Rolled Up Budget from 1995 to 2000

Customs - Covert Surveillance Equipment Customs - Tape Recording Equipment

Prison -Healthcare Services Booklet

Prison - Confidential Drug & Alcohol Database Prison - Drug Training & Support

Substance Misuse Strategy 1999 to 2004 Plan

Police Cozart Rapiscan Police Operation Dart

Police Live ID Fingerprint Technology Police Open Intergrated Intelligence Database Police Driver Training for Customs Surveillance training for Police

Police Rat on Rat Campaign Crimestoppers

Police DNA Awareness Campaign

Protective equipment for Drugs Squad Officers - Police

Police High Speed A3 Colour Printer Police Financial Crime Unit IT system

Customs & Immigration Testing Equipment for the Presence of Class A Drugs

Customs & Immigration Banned Substance Recovery Equipment Drugs Squad Accommodation Police

Police Drugs Squad technical equipment

Official Analyst Lab Automated Solid Phase Extraction System

2001   50,000 2001   49,594 2001   47,000 2001   292,099 2002   113,192

2002  5,000 2002   13,200

2002  2,705

2002  5,800 2002   31,320 2003   35,000

2003  6,744 2003   33,839

2003  1,501 2003   55,000 2003   10,500 2003   32,970

2003  3,500

2003  9,000 2003   19,830

2003  2,269 2003   75,000

2003  6,403

2003  8,245 2003   90,000 2003   51,250 2003   22,232

Alcohol & Drug Service Residential Rehab for Drug Misusers 2003   90,000 Customs Public Relations Plan re Drug Sentencing Policy in Jersey 2004   10,000 BaSS Prison Drug Education 2005   40,000 BaSS Health Promotion Officer 2005   55,000 BaSS Arrest Referral Worker 2005   40,900 BaSS Drug/Alcohol Counsellor 2005   55,000 BaSS Methadone Programme 2005   205,000 BaSS Court Liaison Officer 2005   40,710 BaSS Executive Support 2005   62,500 BaSS Customs Publicity 2005   10,000

Prison - Drug Training & Support 2005  9,885 BaSS Prison Drug Education 2006   40,000 BaSS Health Promotion Officer 2006   57,750 BaSS Arrest Referral Worker 2006   42,945 BaSS Drug/Alcohol Counsellor 2006   57,750 BaSS Methadone Programme 2006   205,000 BaSS Court Liaison Officer 2006   49,279 BaSS Executive Support 2006   60,219

BaSS Customs Publicity 2006  5,000 BaSS Overheads 2006  9,086

2,346,426

2. SENATOR  J.L.  PERCHARD  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  HOME  AFFAIRS REGARDING THE COMMUNITY SAFETY FUND:

Question

The Community Safety Fund was established in 1998 after the first sale of special' number plates by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Department, would the Minister -

1. provide members with the current balance of the fund.?
2. provide members with details of the fund's annual income since 1998?
3. provide members with itemised details of how the fund has been applied since 1998?
4. provide members with agreed criteria for making grants?

5. inform members whethertheSafety Grants Panel is still active orofthe arrangements now in place to administer the fund?

Answer

1. £250,866
2. Schedule 1 (attached) details annual income since 1998.
3. Schedule 2 (attached) details how the funds have been applied since 1998.
4. The main objective of the Safety Grants Panel is to finance projects which enhance community safety or raise awareness on community safety issues.

In the past, the Panel was chaired by a Committee member, other than the President. The Assistant Minister may be seen as the appropriate replacement under the Ministerial system, but this is a matter for the Minister for Transport and Technical Services. At the time that the Driver and Vehicle Standards Department, which administers the scheme, was transferred to the Transport and Technical Services Department, the other Panel members were:

Head of Driver and Vehicle Standards Directorate Manager, Social Services Chief Inspector, States of Jersey Police Senior Fire Safety Officer

Finance and Administration Manager

The Panel held allocation meetings whenever applications were received rather than on a periodic basis. Any organisation, whether voluntary or public, can apply for funding, but projects considered for funding must meet the following criteria:

1. Beneficial to the community at large,
2. For one-off items of expenditure only,
3. For innovative ideas,
4. Not restricted financially, subject to the balance in the fund,
5. Island based,
6. For anything which would significantly enhance communitysafetyand for which there is no or insufficient public funding,
7. Directly related to community safety.

5. As faras I amaware,theSafety Grants Panel has not met sinceresponsibility for Driverand Vehicle Standards (which oversees the scheme) was transferred to the Transport and Technical Services Department in April 2006. I wroteto the Minister for Transport and Technical Services on the 20th December 2006, suggesting that he reconstitute thePanel and advising him that I would be in a position to transfer the fund to him in January. I wrote

again  to  the  Minister  for  Transport  and  Technical  Services  on  the  26th  January  2007 notifying him that I was now releasing the balance of the Fund.

SCHEDULE 1

SAFETY GRANTS FUND Income Statement 1998-2006

SCHEDULE 2

SAFETY GRANTS PANEL

SUMMARY OF EXPENDITURE 1998 TO 2006

£

Fire  &  Rescue  Smoke  Detectors Service Campaign

Smoke  Detectors Parish of St Brelade Campaign

Smoke  Detectors Parish of St John Campaign

for  Senior  Citizens

20,000 for  Senior  Citizens

1,000 for  Senior  Citizens

1,000

Parish  of  St Lawrence

Parish of St Clement Parish of St Saviour Parish of St Peter Parish of Trinity Parish of Grouville

Smoke  Detectors Campaign

Smoke  Detectors Campaign

Smoke  Detectors Campaign

Smoke  Detectors Campaign

Smoke  Detectors Campaign

Smoke  Detectors Campaign

for  Senior for  Senior for  Senior for  Senior for  Senior for  Senior

Citizens

1,000 Citizens

1,000 Citizens

1,000 Citizens

500 Citizens

600 Citizens

200

Total

1998 26,300

Societe Jersiaise-Green Island stabilisation works 3,000 Network to prevent abuse and violence 6,000 CI  Air  Search-Infra  Red  Detection

equipment 25,000 Child Accident Prevention-Inter Island Child Safety in Action Week 3,000 Education-Student  Survival

Guide 700 Victim Support- 5,000

Centre  Point-

Minibus 7,500 Order of St John-towards First Aid Mobile Unit 2,000

Jersey  Youth  Trust-Cyber  Café  Minden

Base 10,000 States  of  Jersey  Police-Road  Safety

Initiative 3,500 Driver  &  Vehicles  Standards-Baby  seats  for

taxis/cabs 1,000

Total

1999 66,700

Health & Social Services-Rmas Training(Risk Management) 4,500 Jersey Women's Refuge-Office equipment and website development 3,600 Victim's Charter 2,300 Water Safety Project for Jersey Schools 7,000 Crime Stoppers Display Board 1,984 Jersey Road Safety Panel-To much Punch for Judy 3,500

Total

2000 22,884

Jersey Layman's Guide to Family Issues 5,000 Motorcycle training D' Hautree 1,003 Fire Service-Smoke alarms for the hard of hearing 4,750 Crimestoppers 1,500 Family Nursing-Safety equipment for needy families 2,000 Other  4,210

Total

2001 18,463

Child  Accident  Prevention  Jersey-Child  Accident

Video 15,000 Ambulance Service-Defibrillators Patient Transport Vehicles 30,000 Fire & Rescue Service-Hazard Warning Signs 3,000 Jersey Road Safety Panel-SpeedVISOR 7,380

Total

2002 55,380

Fire & Rescue Service-Smoke Alarms (vulnerable individuals) 6,600 Jersey Road Safety Panel-SpeedVISOR 900 Ambulance Service-Community Alarms 35,000 Prison Me! No Way! 10,000 Fire & Rescue Service-Community Safety Resource Guide 2,000

Total

2003 54,500

Admin Costs 25 Honorary Police Publicity Material 5,775 DVS-Portakabins 4,500 Child Accident Prevention- Video Mascot 6,000 Prison Me! No Way!-5 Year Sponsorship 40,000 Child Accident Prevention- Video(Fire Safety) 7,500 Fire & Rescue Service-Smoke Alarms 6,500

Fire & Rescue Service-Smoke Alarms 16,000

Total

2004 86,300

Public  Services-Tactile  Cones  Pedestrian  light

Crossing 2,400 Family Nursing & Home Care(Child Safety Video) 2,250 St Brelade Youth Club (Youth Outdoor Shelter) 5,000 People Against Crime(Personal Attack Alarms) 2,560 Admin costs 37

Total

2005 12,247

SOJ Police-Firearms Radios 15,000 Headway Cycle Helmet Initiative DVD 7,500

Total

2005 22,500 TOTAL EXPENDITURE 365,274

3. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMITÉ DES CONNÉTABLES REGARDING THE RETRIEVAL OF FEES FOR NURSING AND RESIDENTIAL CARE:

Question

1. Would the Chairman advise members whether a common policy exists amongst the Parishes for the retrieval of fees for nursing and residential care via a charge upon properties? If so, what is the policy?
2. How many parishioners are currently subject to such charges and what is the distribution amongst the Parishes?

Answer

1. Traditionally welfare was paid to those in need. Persons with assets, but limited income, are assisted at the Connétable 's discretion on the basis that the sums paid arereimbursed.This includes recovery from the estate following death. Likewise residential care and nursing care costs for those born in the Island are paid through the welfare system if the claimant does not have sufficient income to support himself/herself. Where such agreement has been made the Connétable is able to seek recovery of any costs incurred from the estate.

In applying the policy, each case has to be treated on its merits and each case will vary

according to the individual circumstances.

There are some persons who have had bequeathed to them a life enjoyment of a property but who do not own the property. Although this entitles them to any income from the said

property it does not entitle them to any claim on the property itself and only the income is taken into account when determining an application for welfare. In these circumstances no charge can be made against the property itself.

2. At the current time there are 7 parishioners subject to liens or charges against the estate and these are as follows –

Grouville 1 St. Helier 5 St. Lawrence 1

4. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING RESIDENCES THE DEPARTMENT OWNS:

Question

Would the Minister advise members how many residences the Department owns, how many are allocated for rental to departmental staff, what percentage are currently occupied and how many residences the department rents from the private sector for the accommodation of departmental staff?

Answer

All properties are owned by the States of Jersey under the management of Property Holdings and not the Department for Education, Sport and Culture. However, the department is currently responsible for the administration and letting of 21 properties and four bedsits specifically available for off-Island supply teachers who come on short term contracts. This is a total of 25 units.

Twenty-two are occupied by departmental staff, either caretakers or teachers who meet the Departmental policy for allocation. Currently three properties are vacant, which is approximately 12%. Two properties at Le Squez are currently out of service and have now been identified for possible disposal as part of Property Holding's Property Plan. Another has proved difficult to let within ESC and Properties Holdings have been approached and are in the process of identifying a suitable tenant from within the States of Jersey. The Department will continue to work with Property Holdings when it has properties that it finds difficult to let or has no further use for.

The department does not rent any properties from the private sector for the accommodation of departmental staff. The department simply keeps a register of private sector vacant properties which employees occupy on the basis that they are responsible for all aspects of the lease, including rental payments and deposits.

I am aware that the Property Holdings Department is intending to develop a States-wide approach to the allocation and management of residential property provided for public sector staff in the future. This is something I would be very supportive of.

5. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE PROPOSED RELOCATION OF AN ENERGY FROM WASTE PLANT FROM BELLOZANNE TO LA COLLETTE:

Question

With regard to the proposed relocation of an energy from waste plant from Bellozanne to La Collette and the statement that the Jersey Electricity Company's chimney could be used, would the Minister advise members -

1. how many meetings have been held with the JEC to discuss sharing the chimney?
2. whether the JEC chimney is suitable as an energy from waste exhaust and, if so, whether that would be in its present state, or, if not, what modifications would be necessary?

Answer

1. There have been many meetings with the Jersey Electricity Company to discuss the use of the JEC chimney and the shared use ofthe chimney has appeared on everyagenda. The first meeting at which the use of the chimney was discussed was on 13th December 2005. Meetings thentook place on 7th February 2006, 23rd March 2006, 4th April 2006, 16th May 2006, 8th August 2006, 19th October2006,23rd November 2006 and 20th December 2006. Since the beginning of2007 these meetings have taken place on a fortnightly basis and have included discussion of the shared use of the chimney on each occasion.
2. In June 2006 a detailed structural inspection was carried out to the fabric of the boiler chimney at La Collette Power Station. This inspection was carried out with the full agreement and withthesupport and cooperation ofthe Jersey Electricity Company. The inspection was carried out by Delta International under a sub-contract to the Department's Waste Strategy Projects Technical Adviser - Babtie Fichtner Limited. The inspection confirmed that the chimney was in good structural condition and therefore the Department and the JEC have progressed discussions with regardtotheuseoftwo flues of the chimney for the flue gas output from the proposed energy from waste plant. To use the chimney, new flues would be requiredtobe fitted asthefluegasoutputfrom the energyfromwaste plant differs fromthat from the JEC power station. The flue gas pipes from the energy from waste plant would need to be connected into the base ofthe JEC power station chimney. A review of this requirement has been undertaken which indicates it is feasible.

6. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING 2 BOREHOLES RECENTLY DRILLED IN ORDER TO DETERMINE THE SOURCE OF JERSEY'S DEEPER WATER:

Question

1. With regardtothetwo boreholes recently drilled inordertodeterminethesourceofJersey's deeper water, would the Minister inform members –

1. whether the bore at St. Catherine was drilled where the water diviners wanted and, if not, whether the alternative site was chosen in order to save money?
2. whether the drill-rig was brought back to re-drill the bore at La Rocque?

2. With regard to the La Rocque bore, would the Minister advise –

1. whether the bore had to be re-drilled and, if so, whether it now meets specification?
2. the depth of the bore?
3. at what depth flow-rate and samples were measured?
4. whether the contractor has been paid for his work?

Answer

1. The investigation was managed through the Deep Groundwater Advisory Group (DGAG) and the processhasbeenopenthroughout.Twoconsultants(The British Geological Survey and Entec UK Ltd) were appointed by DGAG to oversee and quality-assure the experimental design, delivery, analysis and subsequent reporting independently. All aspects of the investigation were discussed by the DGAG group and members were kept regular updated. Members showed interest in the drilling work and took the opportunity to regularly visit the drill sites and to discuss various aspects with the consultants.

Both water diviners, Mr. George Langlois and Mr. Lewis de la Haye are members of DGAG.

An essential part of the agreed methodology was that Mr. Langlois and Mr. de la Haye would identify two locations in Jersey which they considered to be the most probable sites where underground streams' exist. As well as the location, they informed DGAG that they would also identify the depth of the stream' below ground level.

Mr. Langlois and Mr. de la Haye were given an absolute free hand and as much time as they

wished to identify the sites and depths to be drilled. They were given a window' of up to a depth of 750 feet below ground level in which to locate the stream'. Both the diviners gave this task their utmost attention to detail and as well as identifying spots to be drilled they further took the time to divine the respective streams' for some distance to and from the site. The final locations and depths identified were presented to and agreed by DGAG members.

Mr. Langlois and Mr. de la Haye marked the spots they had chosen with a paint cross and

Mr. Langlois was present when drilling commenced to ensure that the drill bit entered directly on the mark that they had identified.

One of the initial sites considered by Mr. Langlois and Mr. de la Haye at St. Catherine was

towards the top of La Vielle Charrière above Pine Walk. This was later changed when Mr. Langlois discovered that the same stream' could be accessed and effectively drilled into on lower ground toward the coast at Pine Walk.

The advantage of the second site was that the same stream' could be drilled into without pre-

drilling through the overlying hill. This minimised the drilling depth (from 450 to 250 feet) and so maximised the chance of hitting' and drilling into the identified underground stream'. The cost saving of this second site was offset as an access road had to be constructed to get the drilling rig in.

(ii) The first stage of the investigation involved the drilling out of the borehole to the depths specified by Mr. Langlois and Mr. de la Haye as being where the stream' could be located. All the planned sampling of chemistry, isotopes and recording of air-flush yields, groundwater levels, rock type and hardness were successfully completed during this stage.

The second stage of the investigation involved hydraulic testing of the aquifer to determine

the yield of each borehole. This required that a submersible test pump was lowered to just above the base of the borehole. The drilling rig was brought back to the site to clear some plastic debris at about 25 m depth that was preventing the pump from being lowered any further. This was cleared with no difficulty and the pump was installed at the specified depth. The hydraulic testing of the aquifer and further sampling of isotope and age then was successfully completed.

2. As above, at the La Rocque borehole the rig successfully cleared plastic debris without re- drilling of the borehole.

The borehole at La Rocque fully conformed with the stringent specification as demanded by

the investigation and agreed by DGAG members. The major evidence of this was that all the shallow groundwater (7 litres per second) was effectively sealed out permitting valid samples to be obtained from the depths of the predicted streams' specified by the water diviners.

The drilling process was supervised throughout by a consultant from the British Geological

Survey who has extensive experience in drilling and supervising such boreholes worldwide. All information pertaining to the drilling process is included as part of the comprehensive technical report.

All members recently viewed a video of the inside of the borehole at La Rocque. This showed

that the borehole was solid. This was clearly evidenced in that the cement could withstand some superficial scratching by the drill bit. The video showed no signs of having been compromised.

(ii) The investigation specified that both the La Rocque and St. Catherine borehole should be drilled through the stream' and to a total depth below the stream' predicted by Mr. Langlois and Mr. de la Haye. At the request of the Minister for Planning and Environment the La Rocque borehole extended some 3 m beyond this to further try to locate a high yielding stream'. At the request of Mr. Langlois the open uncased section at St Catherine was increased, again to maximise the chance of locating a stream'.

The final drilled depths were: La Rocque 55.5m (182 ft) below ground level (bgl) and St.

Catherine 79.5 m (261 ft) bgl. Both these depths exceed the predicted stream' depths by Mr. Langlois and Mr. de la Haye streams (La Rocque 45.7 m (150 ft) bgl, St Catherine 76.2 m (250 ft) bgl).

Details of the drilling depths are given in the summary and technical reports.

(iii)All samples and flow rates taken were fully in accordance with the experimental design of the

investigation. As much data as possible was collected during the investigation.

During the first stage of the investigation (the drilling of the borehole) –

A total of 13 water samples for inorganic chemistry were taken at La Rocque at 10, 19.5,

22, 28.5, 34.5, 37.5, 43, 44, 46.5, 47.5, 48.5 50.5 and 55m bgl. Isotope samples were analysed for depths 10, 19.5, 22, 34.5, 37.5, 43, 46.5, 50.5, 55 m bgl.

A total of 9 water samples for inorganic chemistry were taken at St. Catherine at 58, 68,

70.5, 72, 73.5, 75.5, 77, 78.5 and 79.5 m bgl. Isotope samples were analysed for 58, 68, 75.5, 77, 79.5 m bgl. Above these depths no suitable groundwater was found that could be sampled.

Isotope samples for analysis were taken for every depth where a variation in air-flush yield

was recorded.

In both boreholes specific electrical conductance, pH and temperature were measured every

0.5 m.

In both boreholes rock chip samples were taken and a description of rock types and

hardness (penetration rate) was made every 0.5m.

At La Rocque, 35 measurements of the air flush yield were taken. A total of 31 were taken

at St. Catherine. Rest water levels and water inflows were also recorded.

Detailed measurements and further isotope, inorganic chemistry and age-dating tracer gases

samples were also taken during the hydraulic testing of the aquifer and from neighbouring boreholes.

Full details of all samples and results taken during the investigation, as well as, the

comprehensive reporting of all activities are included in full technical report and summarised in a summary report. These can be accessed on the Environment site on the States of Jersey web site: www.gov.je.

(iv)The contractor constructed both boreholes to the required specifications and has been paid.

7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE SALE OF PART OF THE SOCIAL HOUSING STOCK AND THE IMPACT OF "BUY TO LET" SALES:

Question 1

1. What evidence does the Minister have to support the statement on page 5 ofthe Social Housing PropertyPlan 2007-2016 (P.6/2007)that "the present public sector social housing stock is larger than necessary"? Does the Minister have comparison data on the proportion of social housing stock in the hands of local authority and housing trusts against owner occupier and private rental stock in the United Kingdom and Jersey and, if so, would he make the comparisons available to members?

2. What criteria didtheMinisteruseto decide whichhomesweretobe selected for sale and, in particular, was the age oftenants or duration oftenancytaken into consideration? Will the Minister give an assurance that tenants of 60 and 70 years of age will not be evicted from their family homes?
3. Would theMinister inform members whether he is satisfiedthatthe notification totenantsof the possible sale of the properties they occupy was handled with adequate sensitivity?

Answer

1. I should preface my replies by saying that, in my statement to the Assembly at our last sitting, I made it clear that I would be happyto discuss theProperty Plan in detailwith the relevant Scrutiny Panel. It seems to me that a Scrutiny Panel reviewofthe Plan would be a more appropriate and effective forum for this sort of discussion, than a constant stream of questions in the Assembly.

The statement quoted by Deputy Southern is expanded in Sections 1.12 and 1.13 of the report (pages 18-20). These sections contain the explanation he seeks. When a large proportion of social housing tenants have no need to claim rental subsidy; when these wealthier tenants far outnumber people on the Housing Waiting List; when people with incomes much higher than the average can access social housing and claim subsidy; and when it becomes necessary to take a very liberal view of income bars in order to find a tenant for brand new property – then, I believe there are good grounds for reasoning that the number of social housing units of accommodation exceeds the number of households in genuine social housing need.

Social housing figures from the UK would contribute nothing to the argument. There is no single correct' level of social housing which could be applied to all communities, and no suggestion that the UK is a model of best practice which Jersey is obliged to imitate. Also, after 25 years of Right to Buy' in the UK, and the introduction of key worker' schemes of affordable housing, a direct like-for-like comparison of Jersey and UK social housing is simply not possible. What is clear, however, is that the Island rate of owner-occupation is low – which is a principal reason why the States last year requested the Housing Department to bring forward proposals to use social housing stock to progress a shared equity scheme, in order to encourage an increase in levels of home ownership in the Island.

2. The process of selecting individual properties for salecannotbe completed untiltenantshave been consulted ontheproposalsinthereport.Theoutline proposals have been madeonthe basis that the properties concerned are not essential in terms of predictable future social housing need, and would find a ready market among our tenants aspiring to become first- time buyers.

There is no question of anyone being summarily evicted. For the avoidance of doubt, no tenant of 60 or 70 will be required to leave their home simply because they cannot afford to buy it. The Plan, as its title suggests, is designed to be implemented over a ten-year period, and all tenants affected by it will have alternatives explained to them. Having said that, Members should be aware that, in the interests of ensuring effective use of resources, the Housing Department, here as elsewhere, has always transferred under-occupying tenants to a smaller property. My Department always seeks to act with compassion. Tenants therefore have nothing to fear but everything to gain from our proposals.

3. My Department was conscious ofthe need to inform States Members, our tenants, and our staff, of our proposals, all at the same time. Given the difficulty of co-ordinating a

simultaneous announcement to such a large group of people, I am satisfied that it was handled with due sensitivity. Immediately following the announcement, a number of well- attended presentations have been made to tenants' representatives, and more are planned. These Residents Groups represented tenants from Le Squez, Clos Gosset, Grands Vaux, Clos de Roncier, Jardin du Soleil, Le Marais, La Collette, The Cedars, Convent Court, Caesarea Court, de Quetteveille Court. In addition presentations were made to Area Panels representing, Le Geyt, Pré de Talbot, Les Cinq Chênes, Grasett Park, Jane Sandeman Court, Westley  Court,   Grouville  Arsenal, St.  Andrew's Court,  Jardins des Carreaux,  Clos  St. André, Westmount Park, Le Verger and Halcyon House.

I should tell the Assembly that a number of tenants have contacted me to express their appreciation for the way the announcement was handled, and the way their subsequent questions have been answered by Department officers.

Question 2

Following his written answers at the last meeting concerning the impact of "buy to let" sales on the property market in Jersey what steps, if any, will the Minister take to curb the growth in such sales in Jersey?

Answer

I believe my written answer of 16th January made it clear that buy to let' is relatively unusual in Jersey, and I have seen no evidence to date that it puts any upward pressure on prices. I would reiterate that such properties can, in any case, only be occupied by residentially qualified people. I can therefore see  no reason to consider restricting the ability of people to buy share transfer property in the Island.

The relevant written question and answer 16th January 2007 was as follows -

"(c)Would the Minister inform members whether the purchase of property by non-residents

on a "buy to let" basis further restricts the supply of properties for purchase by locals and whether such purchases put additional upward pressure on prices?

Answer

(c) It must be remembered that only developments that are in multiple units and are sold by way of share transfer rather than by flying freehold are capable of being purchased by non locally qualified persons. Save for a few historical exceptions individual houses are not allowed to be sold in this manner. It follows that within the context of the overall controlled housing market the number available to non qualified persons is relatively small, and I have no evidence that locals are being restricted in their choice of new homes, or that such purchases are putting any additional upward pressure on prices in that section of the market. I would remind members that all such units can only be occupied by persons with residential qualifications."

8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING APPLICATION FORM IS.0IT AND THE MINIMUM WAGE:

Question

1. Further to his responsetoanoral question on16th January 2007, would the Minister inform members whetherthe Data Protection Commissioner was asked to comment on the questions contained in the application form IS.01T or only onthe statement in Section K?
2. Would theMinisterexplainwhyother members of a household are required to declare assets worth over £1,000 and can he confirm that this request does not breach privacy rights?
3. Would the Minister inform members whetherthe new scheme will remove the disregard on income from the Therapeutic Work Scheme and, if so, explain whether this will remove the incentive for this return to work scheme?

Answer

1. The Data Protection Commissioner wassent a copyofthe whole formwithan explanation as to the purpose, derivation and use ofthedata. My Department asked for comments on the declaration as well as any other issues of which it should be aware.
2. Income Support is to be based on the household unit and is claimed by an adult on behalf of all members of their household. Therateof benefit will be basedon components relatingto the members ofthe household and thetotalofthe income and assets of all members of the household. I can not see how any privacy rights are being breached if the claim is being made on behalf of all members of the household.
3. Current disregards and limits on earnings lead to disincentives and this can be particularly relevant to the Therapeutic Work Scheme (TWS) where disincentives exist for the employee. Under Income Support,the complete disregard will be removed. Income Support will work in a differentwayand incentives will be given to retain earnings rather than benefits and therefore not only will there be a disregardof a proportion of earnings but individuals will also be able to earn above the current TWS limit and still receive Income Support.

Question 2

Does the Minister support the Employment Forum's recommendation of 40% of average wage as the standard for the minimum wage and, if so, would he explain why? Has the Minister undertaken any comparison to show how this figure compares with other minimum wage standards in Europe and, if so, would he provide details to members?

Answer

The Minister accepts that in its review of the minimum wage, the Employment Forum has taken into account the impact on local businesses and economic advice regarding inflation targets for the Island and supports the Forum's recommendation of 40% of average earnings as the standard for the minimum wage, at this time.

The Minister understands from the Forum's recommendation that the figure of 40% of average earnings is not fixed for future upratings beyond 2008, and supports the Forum's recommendation that after the 2008 minimum wage rate has been set by the June 2007 average earnings data, the appropriateness of this method and the percentage of average earnings used in the formula will be reconsidered by the Forum.

In the absence of up to date figures regarding median earnings, the Minister recognises the Forum's reasoning for applying a regularly reviewed index that can be relied upon for release in June each year. The responses received by the Forum demonstrated that being able to plan prices and wage costs a year in advance in advance is crucial for the sustainability of some industries.

In comparing the recommended minimum wage figure with standards in Europe, the table below is of assistance, which presents the minimum wage as a proportion of average monthly gross earnings since 1995. The  information  has  been sourced  from the The European  Industrial Relations Observatory (EIRO), which is a monitoring instrument offering analysis of European industrial relations.

The minimum wage rates referred to in the comparison table mostly relate to the adult minimum wage for employees over the age of 21 and lower minimum wage rates are payable to younger employees, whereas Jersey's minimum wage relates to all employees from the age of 16.

Minimum wage as % of average gross wage

Source: EIRO.

9. DEPUTY  G.P.  SOUTHERN  OF  ST.  HELIER  OF THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING WAGE NEGOTIATIONS:

Question

Did  the  Chief  Minister  intend  to  arrive  at  the  current  position  of  confrontation  with  staff representatives in wage negotiations?

Answer

There is currently no confrontation and pay negotiations are continuing.

10. DEPUTY  G.P.  SOUTHERN  OF  ST.  HELIER  OF THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING THE FORMAL RECORD OF MEETINGS:

Question

Following his statement during the appointment process as Chief Minister that "well-structured scrutiny is vital to the success of ministerial government", and following the discovery by the Telecoms Review Scrutiny Sub-Panel that certain Treasury meetings with parties contracted to advise on the implications of the sale were not minuted, what steps, if any, will the Chief Minister take to ensure at all Ministers and their Departments  make a formal record of all significant meetings on policy matters so that the scrutiny function can have access to full information when undertaking a review?

Answer

Firstly, let me assure members that I remain fully committed to the view I expressed in my speech to the Assembly as candidate for Chief Minister that well-structured and impartial scrutiny is vital to the success of ministerial government'. To this end, Ministers are fully committed to cooperating with the Scrutiny Panels, and to providing them with the information they need to carry out their reviews. This information includes correspondence to Ministers, minutes of meetings attended by Ministers, and reports to Ministers, as well as the information that is conveyed directly to Scrutiny Panels by Ministers and officers.

The Deputy has asked whether the flow of information can be increased by imposing a requirement to ensure that a formal record is prepared of all significant meetings on policy matters. There would be difficulties associated with such a requirement. Firstly, the question does not appear to take note of the wide range of information that it already available to the Scrutiny Panels, and which is used by the Executive itself as the basis for policy development. Secondly, it is difficult to define what is meant by significant', and if a broad interpretation were given to this term it could be taken as encompassing a much larger number of meetings, both formal and informal, than are recorded at present. The production of a minute, meeting note, file note, or other formal record can take up a significant amount of officer time, often at a middle or senior management level, and the production of such a record would be difficult to justify in terms of the additional benefit. In any event, it should be noted that the development of a major policy will involve the calling of planning or update meetings which are informal and at which no major decisions are taken. This is part of the normal policy-making process and it would be extremely cumbersome and costly for records to be kept of such meetings. I can assure the Deputy that all meaningful and necessary information is provided to scrutiny as a matter of course, whether in the final reports, in the record of ministerial decisions, or other documents. I am completely satisfied that there is an acceptable and effective audit trail of documents leading to ministerial decisions, and I have no doubt that, combined with meetings with Ministers and their officers, this is more than adequate to meet the legitimate interests of Scrutiny Panels.

In view of the above, therefore, I am not willing to introduce a requirement for there to be a formal record of all significant meetings on policy matters. I would, however, want to re-emphasise that I and my colleagues remain willing to cooperate with the Scrutiny Panels, and indeed a meeting to discuss this very subject is currently being organised with the Chairmen's Committee.

11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE FORMAL RECORD OF MEETINGS REGARDING THE PROPOSED SALE OF JERSEY TELECOM:

Question

In light of the Minister's commitment to co-operation with scrutiny, would he explain why certain Treasury meetings with the contracted parties in the proposed sell-off of Jersey Telecom have not been minuted and, in particular, why there are no minutes of a meeting of 6th December 2006 between seven parties to discuss "the implications of the sale"? Would the Minister state how such procedures can be said to accord with good practice and explain how he considers that scrutiny can have access to full information in these circumstances?

Answer

It is by no means unusual business practice to hold informal meetings at which minutes are not taken. The meeting to which the question refers was an informal working meeting between a number of parties. There was no formal agenda, no Minister or Assistant Minister present and no decisions taken. In such circumstances it is quite appropriate for minutes not to be taken.

Quite clearly if one were to take the view that every informal meeting, or indeed discussion, between two or more parties should be minuted and scrutinised, the States machinery of government would quickly become unwieldy and inefficient. I do not believe such excessive bureaucracy is an appropriate use of taxpayer's money.

Equally, I do believe that any Ministerial decision should be properly recorded, and supported by suitable supporting background information. Any such decisions and related background papers should be and are made available for scrutiny.

2. Oral Questions The Deputy Bailiff :

The first question is by Deputy Lewis of the Minister for Housing.

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour of the Minister for Housing regarding sale of States housing stock homes to tenants:

Further to reports that up to 800 housing stock homes could be sold to tenants under a shared equity scheme, would the Minister assure Members that long-term tenants who are unable to purchase their homes will not be forced to relocate?

Senator T.J. Le Main (The Minister for Housing): Yes, I can.

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

If tenants can afford to buy their homes through a mortgage or a shared equity scheme then I would say the very best of luck to them. As much as I appreciate the need to save money and the Minister's good intentions to maintain existing housing stocks, some of these tenants whose homes will be sold and who may not be able to purchase their homes are long-term tenants. I can assure Members that unless you have money once you are past the age of 50 an interview with a mortgage company will be an extremely short one. Will the Minister undertake to preserve the rights of tenants? Thank you, Sir.

Senator T.J. Le Main:

I am going to do everything I can to preserve the rights of all these people that we are dealing with and they will be dealt with in the kind of manner that I would want my family to be dealt with.

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I thank the Minister for his replies.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

Will the Minister expand his answer, from the definition of long-term tenants, that all tenants who are offered their houses and express a wish not to buy and not to move will not be subject to any eviction?

Senator T.J. Le Main:

There will be certain instances where people have not complied or are not currently complying with the terms of their tenancy. There will be people that have been extremely short-term tenants in specific properties that may wish to be sold. This property plan intends to deal with those in a sympathetic manner over a period of 10 years and everybody, as I say, will be treated in a sympathetic manner. Hopefully, at the end of the day, any arrangements will be done jointly between the tenant and the landlord.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

In the absence of a categoric confirmation that no tenant will be evicted will the Minister expand on which tenants and which types of tenants may be subject to eviction?

Senator T.J. Le Main:

It is not the intention of the Housing Department to evict any tenants - any tenants - from property they currently occupy. Hopefully, over a period of 10 years, if this Assembly approves the property plan over a period of 10 years - and maybe longer - then the issues will be dealt in the normal manner on moving people when their families grow and leave home or they have to downsize. But no one - but no one - will be asked to vacate against their wishes the property they currently occupy.

4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour :

Could the Minister inform us whether there are principles and regulations governing this situation or whether ultimately it depends upon his kindness? Thank you, Sir.

Senator T.J. Le Main:

I am not really sure I understand that question. If he could elaborate on it please?

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Just to rephrase, when faced with such a situation is the Minister able to go to various rules and precedents by which to handle this or does he simply sit in the office and take personal pleadings from individuals and then make his decision?

Senator T.J. Le Main:

No, Sir, I have categorically said that if there are any tenants - any clients of ours - that feel or want to be represented by any Member of this Assembly then I will work with that Member to resolve any issues otherwise. As I say, I reiterate I would treat every tenant and every resident in the same manner I would wish to want to treat them as if it was my mother in that accommodation.

5. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin :

The Minister has just said that no tenants will be evicted. How does he reconcile that statement with the statement which has appeared in the media that the 10 people who are living in the high value properties will be evicted?

Senator T.J. Le Main:

If the Deputy of St. Martin believes the media he must be the only one in this Assembly that does so. Quite honestly, the high value properties where we know there are some very, very long-term family tenancies, the Deputy very well knows I have invited him only this week to get a hold of the family to see whether he would like to come and talk to some of these families with me. I am due to meet 2 of these tenancies on Tuesday to give them the assurances that I have been promising this Assembly. They will not be evicted and that is the categoric assurance I give.

6. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour :

Can the Minister confirm that he has already told some States' tenants that they will have to move?

Senator T.J. Le Main:

If the Deputy would like to give me the names of those tenants I will investigate but I cannot recollect having spoken to any tenants saying they are going to have to move.

7. Deputy G.P. Southern :

The Senator's answers are confusing. For clarification purposes, he has said that it is not his intention to evict anybody under his sale of houses scheme but he has listed some short-term tenants who might be evicted. Will the Minister give a categoric assurance that he will not be evicting any tenants under his housing sales scheme?

Senator T.J. Le Main: Yes.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Very well, that brings questioning on that matter to an end. Question 2 is a question by Deputy Baudains of the Minister for Planning and Environment.

2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the borehole at La Rocque drilled for research purposes:

Following the Minister's statement that he is satisfied that the La Rocque borehole recently drilled for research purposes was a success, would he inform Members precisely what the drilling of the borehole has achieved and its future usefulness?

Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):

The La Rocque borehole was part of an investigation. It was discussed in detail and agreed by all members of the Deep Groundwater Advisory Group within a signed formal agreement. The Deep Groundwater Advisory Group was tasked to take this evidence-based approach as to the origin and magnitude of Jersey's deep groundwater resources by the former Environment and Public Services Committee, an action that I fully support. This followed a recommendation from the Shadow Scrutiny Panel in their report on the Draft Water Resources (Jersey) Law. The British Geological Survey and Entec U.K. Limited who had contributed to the Shadow Scrutiny Panel were appointed by the Deep Groundwater Advisory Group to oversee and quality-assure the investigation. Mr. George Langlois and Mr. Lewis de la Haye are both valued members of the group. They agreed to identify 2 sites where underground streams entering the Island could be intercepted. The identified sites were at La Rocque and St. Catherine. During drilling, all parameters that may indicate the presence of an underground stream were recorded and sampled. Once the borehole was complete hydraulic testing took place to determine the yield with, again, exhaustive sampling being undertaken. The investigation at La Rocque clearly showed that: (1) no significant increase in groundwater flow or underground stream was found at any depth; (2) the underground water at depth was hydraulically connected to shallow underground waters; (3) the isotopic signatures and the inorganic chemistry of the groundwater did not change at any depth and were consistent with a groundwater source originating as rain in Jersey. The results are confirmed and supported by findings at the St. Catherine test borehole. The investigation, therefore, concludes there is no evidence to suggest the existence of a separate deepwater resource that flows from outside the Island. The information obtained from this deep groundwater investigation has allowed a conclusion to the debate. Regarding the question as to the future usefulness of the bore, the borehole is on private land; the future use would be a matter for the landowner. Finally, I would

draw Deputy Baudains' attention to the summary report of this work which all Members have received and to the more detailed technical report which is available by request from my department or from our website. Thank you.

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:

Would the Minister confirm that the La Rocque borehole is 55 metres deep but completely blocked with debris approximately two-thirds of the way down and, therefore, cannot be used to supply water, and probably unlikely to be able to supply useful samples either? Would he further confirm that the methodology chosen to determine whether water comes from France to Jersey is incapable of making that differentiation? Perhaps the Minister would also give us his definition of the word "success".

Senator F.E. Cohen:

I can confirm that the La Rocque borehole was drilled to a final depth of 55.5 metres and, for further clarification, that the St. Catherine borehole was drilled to a depth of 79.5 metres. The borehole was not blocked at the time that the tests were carried out. I understand that one of the boreholes required clearing to allow the hydraulic tests to be carried out, which was a secondary measure, but both the British Geological Survey and Entec are entirely satisfied that the tests are satisfactory and the results are conclusive. I am satisfied that the methodology used and approved by the British Geological Survey and Entec was the best possible methodology to bring this matter to a conclusion. While I accept that the Deputy has long held views in relation to water connections with France, and that others hold similar views, I believe that having spent public money on delivering these tests and having had a conclusive result that it is time to move on now and preserve our water resources for future generations.

2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:

The conclusive result which the Minister refers to, would he confirm that the isotopic signature of the water at La Rocque is the same as that of nearby France?

Senator F.E. Cohen:

I can only confirm that the isotopic signature at the bottom of the borehole is virtually identical to the isotopic signature at the top of the borehole and that the conclusion of the British Geological Survey and Entec Limited have been that this indicates with certainty that the water at the bottom of the borehole came from the same source as the water at the top of the borehole. Therefore, their conclusion is that it is rainwater that fell on the surface of Jersey.

3. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade :

Would the Minister like to confirm that he has had a reply from Entec and the B.G.S. (British Geological Society) on the age of the water in the bores? Would he not agree that more work on the quantity of water below the Island needs to be done, particularly in view of the fact that a small number of 750 foot boreholes supply 100,000 people in France? It does look as if we need some deeper bores to ascertain how much water there is.

Senator F.E. Cohen:

I can confirm that the final aging reports have not been received and the information that I was provided with yesterday indicates that this will be available within 2 weeks. As soon as it is available I will of course immediately distribute it to all States' Members. As to the question of more work required, the Deep Groundwater Advisory Group agreed that these would be definitive tests in that the water diviners were given the opportunity of choosing the particular sites that they believed would allow us to drill into the deep underground streams they believed existed from France. We carried out the tests. Entec and the British Geological Survey are entirely satisfied that the results conclusively show there is no water connection but, very clearly, if we were to do additional testing that additional testing would provide further information but I certainly do not believe that it would add to the conclusions or change in any way the conclusions of the British Geological Survey or Entec which are 100 per cent unequivocal.

4. Senator S. Syvret (Minister for Health and Social Services):

Would the Minister agree with me that we now have a definitive answer to this issue and the time has arrived for us to stop wasting taxpayers' money chasing pixies around the bottom of the garden and to stop wasting the time of this Assembly and finally put this matter to bed?

Senator F.E. Cohen:

I think that we have a 100 per cent test. I think that the results of that test are very clear to all. That is, that the British Geological Survey and Entec both agree that there are no underground water connections with France. I will, therefore, be pressing forward as soon as possible with a Water Resources Law, albeit that it will be significantly changed from the previous draft, in that domestic boreholes will be entirely exempt from any licensing and fees and that the thresholds will be very significantly increased. The current proposal is around 15 cubic metres per day. But, yes, I agree, Sir, it is time to move on. I do, however, accept and I understand and respect the views of Deputy Baudains and others that having spent public money and having had a conclusive result it is time to move on.

5. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:

Unfortunately the Minister neglected to answer a previous question. I asked whether he could confirm that the isotopic signature for the water in the La Rocque bore was the same as the isotopic signature of water  from nearby France. He did tell us, Sir, that the signature was the same apparently at the top and the bottom of the hole although I noticed a chemical analysis is entirely different. Could he confirm that in actual fact the signature is the same as water from nearby France?

Senator F.E. Cohen:

I am not able to confirm that because I do not have the figures to hand. I will get the exact figures and I will ensure that the Deputy has them within the next 24 hours. But I think that the question is not whether the isotopic signature is the same as a particular area in France or any other particular area. It is a question of the combined tests. The combined tests clearly show, as supported by Entec and the British Geological Survey, that there is no underground water connection with France. I am sure that aging, when we get the results, will add to this information.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Very well. We will come next to a question which Deputy Lewis will ask of the Chief Minister.

3. Deputy K.C. Lewis of the Chief Minister regarding a cap' on population in Jersey:

It has been reported that the Guernsey Government intends to cap its population at 60,000 people for the next 60 years. What does the Chief Minister consider to be the maximum number of people for Jersey? Thank you, Sir.

Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):

The subject of population growth and inward migration is one of the most fundamental issues which we in the States and the public have to debate. That is why the Council of Ministers has commissioned a full review of potential changes in the population and the implications of these changes. A cross-departmental officer group was set up last year to look at the impact of population changes and the aging population on our public services, our environment, our economy and society as a whole. The report of the cross-departmental officer group will be presented to the Council of Ministers on 22nd February and will subsequently be published as part of an open consultation process. The Council of Ministers will consider the outcome of the consultation process during June of this year and the Council's findings will be presented to the States as soon as possible thereafter. It is not possible for me to speculate in advance of this report what may or may not be a sustainable maximum number of people for Jersey.

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

Within the next 15 years, Sir, Jersey could have a situation whereby three-quarters of the population would be non-Islanders. We could indeed be facing a loss of heritage and cultural identity. Does the Chief Minister not agree?