States Meeting Transcript - 21/10/2008

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 21st OCTOBER 2008

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS..........................9

1. Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):..............................................9

PERSONAL STATEMENT......................................................................9

2. Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):...................................9

2.1 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):..............................................9

QUESTIONS.....................................................................................10

3. Written Questions.......................................................................10

1. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER TO THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE COMPOSTING COSTS FOR 2008:.....................................................................10
2. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE HOUSING TRUST'S MANAGEMENT OF BERKSHIRE COURT:................................................................................11
3. DEPUTY I.J. GORST OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE CHAIRMAN OF EDUCATION AND HOME AFFAIRS SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE BULL REPORT:..12
4. DEPUTY I.J. GORST OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE CHAIRMAN OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY AND HOUSING SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE BULL REPORT:..13
5. DEPUTY I.J. GORST OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE BULL REPORT:...................................14
6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE TENDER PROCESS AND CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENTS AT LIBERTY WHARF:......................15
7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING THE APPOINTMENT OF AN EMPLOYER REPRESENTATIVE TO CHAIR THE NEW SKILLS EXCEUTIVE:.................16
8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING POPULATION CONTROL POLICIES:............16
9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING POPULATION CONTROL POLICIES:................................16
10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE EXTENSION OF SAVINGS GUARANTEES TO JERSEY ......17
11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHAIRMAN OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE REGARDING EFFICIENCY SAVINGS:................18

12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING INCOME SUPPORT FOR PARENTS ATTENDING THE ACCESS COURSE AT HIGHLANDS:................................................18
13. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING INCENTIVES TO WORK AND SAVE UNDER INCOME SUPPORT:.............................................................................18
14. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING HOW CHANGES IN CIRCUMSTANCES OF INCOME SUPPORT APPLICANTS WERE ADDRESSED:.....................................19
15. DEPUTY C.J. SCOTT WARREN OF ST. SAVIOUR OF TO THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING APPOINTMENTS AT DOCTORS' SURGERIES BETWEEN JANUARY AND SEPTEMBER 2008: ....................................19

4. Oral Questions...........................................................................20

1. Deputy I.J. Gorst of the Chief Minister regarding the employment of people with disabilities by the States Employment Board during 2008:..............................20 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................21

1. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................21
   2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Minister for Social Security regarding overpayment of IncomeSupport:.......................................................21 Senator P.F. Routier (The Minister for Social Security): ......................................21

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................21
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................22
   3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding the issue of a Disclosure Notice by the police in respect of a public servant's alleged actions: ........22 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................22

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................22
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................23

3. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade : ..................................................23
4. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................23
5. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................23
6. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................23
7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................23
8. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................24

4. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the terms and conditions which are currently applied to maternity leave and pay for teachers: .........................................................................................24 Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):........................24

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25

5. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s regarding the availability of ballot papers for pre-poll or postal votes for the Deputies Elections:.25 Connétable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen (The Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s): ........25

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................26
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................26
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................26
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................26
5. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville :..................................................26
6. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier : ..................................................26
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27
8. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................27

9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27
10. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................27

6. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding action taken by Environmental Health Officers as a result of a recent incident at the harbour: ..........................................................................28 Senator B.E. Shenton (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.........................28

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................28
2. The Connétable of St, Helier:...........................................................28
3. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade:...............................................28

7. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding the publication and implementation of the Integrated Travel and Transport Policy:.......................................................................29 Deputy G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):...29

4.7.1 Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :..............................................................29

8. The Deputy of St. Martin of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the work being undertaken by the Officer Working Group established to consider the various options for the future of Haut de la Garenne: ...........................................29 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources): .30

4.8.1 The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................30

9. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the potential withdrawal by the United Kingdom from the reciprocal health agreement with theIsland:..............................................................30

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................30
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................31
3. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en of St. Saviour:...............................................31
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................31

10. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement s of the Chief Minister regarding the development of the Esplanade Quarter' and the publication of the reports by Carey Olsen, Price waterhouseCoopers and the Minister for Treasury and Resources:.........32 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):...................................................32

4.10.1 Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................32

11. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour to the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the debate of the New Directions policy:.....................................32 Senator B.E. Shenton (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.........................32

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................32
2. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................33
3. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................33
4. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:...........................................................33
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................33
6. Deputy S.G. Ferguson:..............................................................34
7. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:....................................................34

5. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Health and Social Services ...........................................................................................34

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier:........................................................34 Senator B.E. Shenton (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.........................35

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................35
   2. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................35
   3. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :........................................................35

5.3.1 The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................36

4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................36

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................36

2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................37

5. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................37

1. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................37
2. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................38

6. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................38

5.6.1 Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................38

7. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. John : ........................................................38

6. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Transport and Technical Services..................................................................................39

1. Connétable G.W. Fisher of St. Lawrence:..............................................39 Deputy G.W.J. de Faye (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services): ................39
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................39

6.2.1 Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................40

3. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................40
4. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :..............................................................40
5. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................40
6. Connétable T.J. du Feu of St. Peter:....................................................40
7. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................41
8. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................41
9. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:..................................................41
10. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en: ..............................................................42

PERSONAL STATEMENTS....................................................................42

7. The Connétable of St. Peter:............................................................42

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................43

8. Statement by Chief Minister regarding a proposed Partnership agreement with the Conseil Général de la Manche..........................................................43

8.1 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):.............................................43

9. Statement by the Chief Minister regarding the British-Irish Council Summit Meeting to be held in Jersey in 2009..............................................................44

9.1 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):.............................................44

1. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................44
2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................45

10. Statement of the Chief Minister regarding the implications for depositors in the current global financial conditions:.....................................................45

10.1 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):.............................................45

1. Deputy J.J. Huet of St. Helier:.......................................................46
2. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................46
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................47
4. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:...........................................................47
5. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................48
6. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................48

11. Statement by the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding the Victoria Avenue Resurfacing Contract.................................................49

11.1 Deputy G.W.J. de Faye (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services): ..........49

1. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................50
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................50

3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................50
4. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................51
5. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian : ..........................................................51

12. Statement by the Deputy Chairman of the Committee of Inquiry into Third Party Planning Appeals regarding the progress of the inquiry...............................52

12.1 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................52

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................52

13. Integrated Coastal Zone Management Strategy (P.76/2008): ..........................52

Senator F.E. Cohen (The Minister for Planning and Environment):...........................52 13.1 Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (Assistant Minister for Planning and Environment - rapporteur):.............................................................................52

1. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade:.....................................................54
2. Deputy R.C. Duhamel:..............................................................54
3. The Connétable of St. Peter:.........................................................55
4. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:...........................................................55
5. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ............................................................55
6. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian : ..........................................................55
7. The Connétable of St. Brelade:......................................................55
8. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................56
9. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................56
10. The Deputy of Trinity : ............................................................57

14. Esplanade Quarter Master Plan, St. Helier : Development Agreement - Approval by the States (P.111/2008):..................................................................59

14.1 Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................59

1. Senator F.H. Walker :................................................................60
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................61
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................61
4. Senator J.L. Perchard: ...............................................................61

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................64 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................64

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF RESPONSIBILITY.....................................64

15. Statement of the Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel regarding draft Foundations (Jersey) Law 200- (P.143/2008):..........................................64

15.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................64

1. Senator F.H. Walker :................................................................65
2. Senator F.H. Walker :................................................................65
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................65
4. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................66
5. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................66
6. The Connétable of St. Brelade:......................................................66
7. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................67

9. Deputy I.J. Gorst :....................................................................67
10. Senator F.H. Walker : .............................................................68
11. Senator M.E. Vibert :..............................................................68
12. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:..........................................................69

13. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ............................................................69

PUBLIC BUSINESS - RESUMPTION..........................................................70

16. Draft States of Jersey (Amendment No. 5) Law 200- (P.122/2008):....................70

1. Connétable D.F. Gray ofSt.Clement:..................................................70

1. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................71
   2. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................73

1. The Connétable of St. Clement:......................................................74
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................74
   3. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................76

1. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................77
2. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................77
3. Senator M.E. Vibert :................................................................79
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................80
5. Deputy J. Gallichan of St. Mary:....................................................81

4. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................84
5. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................85

1. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen : ......................................................85
2. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier : .......................................................85
3. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................85
4. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................86
5. Deputy I.J. Gorst :....................................................................87
6. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye: .............................................................87
7. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................88
8. Deputy P.J.D. Ryan:.................................................................90
9. Deputy J.J. Huet:....................................................................90
10. The Connétable of St. Peter:......................................................90
11. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:.........................................................91
12. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ............................................................91

STATEMENTS ON MATTERS OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY ........................93

17. Statement by the Chief Minister of the resignation of the Minister for Home Affairs: ...........................................................................................93

17.1 Senator F.H. Walker :...................................................................93

1. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................94
2. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................94
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................94
4. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................95
5. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................95
6. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:...........................................................95
7. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................95

PUBLIC BUSINESS - RESUMPTION..........................................................96

18. Draft Policing of Parks (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.131/2008):.......96

18.1 Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:................................................................96

1. Deputy I.J. Gorst :....................................................................96
2. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................96
3. Deputy P.N. Troy ofSt.Brelade:....................................................97
4. Deputy K.C. Lewis : .................................................................97
5. Connétable P.F.M. Manning of St. Saviour:.........................................97

6. Deputy J.B. Fox:....................................................................97
7. The Deputy of Trinity : ..............................................................97

19. Jersey Air Cadets' HQ, La Rue Carrée, St. Brelade – proposed Deed of Arrangement (P.132/2008):.............................................................................99

19.1 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources):............99

20. Artificial Insemination of Bovines: fees (P.135/2008):................................100

20.1 The Deputy of Trinity (Assistant Minister for Planning and Environment):............100

20.1.1 The Deputy of St. Martin : ..........................................................100

21. Draft Amendment (No. 9) of the Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.140/2008): ..........................................................................................102

1. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................102
2. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................102

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : .............................................................103
2. Deputy P.N. Troy :..................................................................103
3. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:..........................................................104

3. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................105

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ..........................................................106
2. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye: ............................................................106

4. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................106

21.4.1 Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:...........................................................106

5. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................107

1. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:..........................................................107
2. The Deputy of St. Martin : ..........................................................107

6. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................108

21.6.1 Deputy G.C.L. Baudains: ..........................................................108

7. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................108
8. The Connétable of St. Clement:.......................................................109
9. Senator M.E. Vibert :..................................................................109

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:..........................................................109
2. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:.............................................................110

10. The Connétable of St. Clement:......................................................112

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:........................................................113
   2. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye: .........................................................113
2. Deputy C.J. Scott Warr en:.......................................................114
3. Senator M.E. Vibert :............................................................114

11. The Connétable of St. Clement:......................................................115

1. Deputy G.W.J. de Faye: .........................................................116
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..........................................................116

12. The Connétable of St. Clement:......................................................117

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF RESPONSIBILITY....................................117

22. Statement by the Chairman of the Economic Affairs Panel: .........................117

22.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :................................................................117

22.1.1 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ..............................................................117 Senator S. Syvret:...........................................................................118 Senator P.F. Routier:........................................................................118 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :.......................................................................118

ADJOURNMENT............................................................................118

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer. APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

1. Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):

I rise to inform the Assembly that I have received a letter of resignation from Senator Kinnard from her position as Minister for Home Affairs. I am informing the Assembly as required by the States of Jersey Law 2005; however, I should also inform the Assembly that, under the Law, the Minister will remain the Minister for the remaining term of office until such time as the States selects another person to replace her. I therefore intend – although I could do it today, out of courtesy to Members I do not intend to do so – to ask the Assembly tomorrow to appoint another Member to become Minister for Home Affairs for the remainder of this term of office and I think it is only fair at this stage to inform Members that I intend to nominate Deputy Andrew Lewis of St. John, who of course has been the Assistant Minister for Home Affairs for the last near 3 years, to become the next Minister. Other States Members will of course be able to make alternative nominations and if there is an alternative the States will follow the normal appointments process. The process is that each candidate speaks for up to 10 minutes and is questioned for up to 20 minutes. A ballot is then held, with successive ballots if necessary if there are more than 2 candidates. I should inform the Assembly that I am deeply saddened by Senator Kinnard's resignation.

PERSONAL STATEMENT The Deputy Bailiff :

Senator Kinnard had asked me for leave to make a personal statement about her resignation and I have granted that leave. Would Members agree that it would convenient to take it now rather than at the proper time? Yes, Senator Kinnard.

2. Senator W. Kinnard (The Minister for Home Affairs):

Thank you. I wish to make a personal statement relating to an issue of moral conscience and principle. At a recent meeting of the Council of Ministers, the Council of Ministers had a recommendation from my department to take forward immediately an item of importance. The Council of Ministers declined to accept that recommendation from my department. I consider it a matter of personal moral conscience and principle, while recognising Council of Ministers' right to take a different view. The matter that I had wished to take forward was an amendment abolishing the need for judges to always give a warning of the danger of convicting without corroboration in cases involving accomplices, sexual offences and offences involving children. I must regret that I am resigning as a Minister so close to the end of my term but in so doing I should like to express my gratitude to Deputy Andrew Lewis , my Assistant Manager, for his excellent assistance for the past 3 years. I am also only really sorry that he too will be leaving the States. May I also give my thanks to all my Chief Officers of the various departments and particularly to my Chief Officer of Home Affairs and the first rate staff at Piquet House who have given me so much support over the years and continue to do so. I thank, too, all the men and women of the Home Affairs family of departments who have worked with exceptional dedication and commitment to public service achieving executive results. An organisation is its people and I know that they will give similar support to whoever is my successor and I wish them all well. Thank you.

2.1 Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):

Sir, I am asking your permission for something if I may. I may wish to make another statement in relation to Senator Kinnard's resignation and I would ask you leave to be able to do so at some time later in the sitting, if that is possible.

The Deputy Bailiff :

We will consider that when it comes.

QUESTIONS

3. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER TO THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE COMPOSTING COSTS FOR 2008:

Question

Can the Minister provide, for comparative purposes, updates to the answers tabled by his department on the 11th March 2008 in relation to composting costs for 2008?

Answer

For clarity the original question relating to composting costs was as follows:

In 2007 would the Minister advise –

1. how many litres of "Genuine Jersey" soil improver the department sold?
2. how much money was derived from these sales and to whom the money was disbursed?
3. how much profit or loss each litre of compost sold resulted in or attained?
4. what the total expenditure in 2007 for compost operations was, including machinery purchased?
5. how these figures were derived?

On revisiting these figures an error in the 2007 figure for compost products sold has been

identified. To rectify this for comparative purposes the correct 2007 and 2008 figures are presented below. It should be noted that the 2008 figures are to the end of September.

(a) During 2007 the Department sold 1,377,000 litres of compost products (Soil Improver and Mulch). The figure quoted in the previous answer was 403,000 litres. It has now been discovered that this figure was factually incorrect. The error occurred due to a change to the recording and accounting treatment for green waste and was not identified when the original 2007 answer was drafted. The error is very much regretted, however the costs were correct and when compared over a three year period, 2006, 2007 and 2008 the cost of producing a litre of soil improver was £0.29. £0.51 and £0.47 respectively.

At the end of September 2008 the Department had sold 1,157,200  litres of Compost products.

(b)The income generated from product sales in 2007 was £46,423

Income until the end of September 2008 is £40,137. These funds are used to help offset the operational costs of running the Green Waste Composting site.

(c)This gives a net cost of 51p per litre for 2007 and 47p per litre so far in 2008.

4. The operational costs of running the green waste composting site in 2007 were £705,276. For the first 9 months of 2008 the figure is £544,004.

5. The profit / loss figure is the operational cost of the green waste composting site divided by the quantity of compost products sold. The base financial figures are from the 2008 and 2007 accounting records and the quantityof products sold is from the Department's own records.

2. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE HOUSING TRUST'S MANAGEMENT OF BERKSHIRE COURT:

Question

1. When the Jersey HomesTrusttook on the management of Berkshire Court what were the terms of the agreement with the States, if any, at that time in respect of occupants and States interaction or oversight in the future of the running of this site?

Answer

The Jersey Homes Trust purchased and developed Berkshire Court themselves on the site of the old Berkshire Hotel and La Motte Garage. The contract of purchase by the Trust set out that the resultant homes to be built on the site would be for occupation solely as social rented accommodation.

Question

2. Was the development supposed to be for the over 50's only ? Answer

No. However, the Housing Department had 80% of the nomination rights for the homes at Berkshire Court. The qualifying criteria for those without dependants to be placed on the Department's waiting list is that they are a minimum of 50 years of age, or if younger are unable to work due to disability or long term incapacity. The homes at Berkshire Court are all 1 bedroom units and due to the waiting list criteria, only those over 50 years of age or those unable to work for the reasons I have already outlined can be nominated. Assurances have been given by the Trust that presently all occupants of Berkshire Court meet this criteria.

Question

3. Doany States agreements exist in relation to the operation of other Housing trusts? Answer

The vast majority of homes operated by Housing Trusts have a restriction that they may only be utilised for Social Rented purposes. In cases such as Berkshire Court, where the Trust has been provided with States funded subsidies on borrowing, the Housing Department has the right to nominate 80% of the initial tenants and a minimum of 50% of all future tenants. There are also legal agreements which prevent Housing Trusts from charging a rent greater than the Housing Departments "Fair Rent". Following the Committee of Inquiry into "Procedures for the Allocation of Residential Property by Housing Trusts", carried out in early 2003, a number of recommendations made were accepted and implemented which has resulted in agreements such as the nomination rights being appropriately monitored.

Question

4. Does the Minister have any powerto influence or instruct the expenditure of housing trusts where there is clear evidence that security measures or maintenance of properties is being compromised?

Answer

No. I enjoy a close and collaborative working relationship with all the Housing Trusts and the respective Chairmen. As members will know we have commissioned a review of social Housing provision by Professor Christine Whitehead from Cambridge University. This review will, amongst other things, consider whether there should be regulation introduced for all social housing providers and if so what form that regulation should take. All of the Housing Trusts have been afforded the opportunity to make submissions to Professor Whitehead and will be engaged again during the formal consultation period when the Professor publishes her draft report as a Green Paper early in the New Year. I am not aware of problems with regard to a lack of maintenance on Housing Trust properties. A good proportion of Trust homes are relatively new (the Berkshire certainly) and there should be adequate income from rent to offer a good maintenance service and ensure that provision is made for planned maintenance and eventual capital refurbishment.

I am sure the Chairman of the Jersey Homes Trust would be only too pleased to discuss any

concerns any Members may have regarding Berkshire Court.

3. DEPUTY I.J. GORST OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE CHAIRMAN OF EDUCATION AND HOME AFFAIRS SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE BULL REPORT: Question

R.89/2008 regarding the implementation of Dr. K. Bull's Report into Children with Social Emotional and Behavioural Difficulties (SEBD) states, with regard to recommendation 17.1.8, that 'a recommendation for an External Independent Review Group was effectively superseded by the introduction (under Ministerial Government) of the Social Affairs Scrutiny Panel' (Scrutiny panel now split into two).

Can the Chairman outline whether his panel have implemented the 'Bull' recommendations 17.1.8 and 17.2.1 (relating to the management of the revamped facility) and, if so, can he explain why they have not produced any report to show that this work has been undertaken?

Answer

The Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel has not implemented the two recommendations to which the Deputy refers and, as a result, has not produced any report on the matter. However, there are two issues which need to be considered in relation to this matter:

1. When was the Panel told about its responsibilities in this matter?
2. Does the work of an "External Independent Review Group", as described in these two recommendations, fall within the remit of Scrutiny?

Until Children's Executive: Progress Report (R.89/2008) was presented to the States on 20th August 2008, the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel had been unaware that responsibility for these two recommendations had been assigned to Scrutiny. The Panel has researched this point thoroughly, including contacting the former Chairman of the Social Affairs Scrutiny Panel; it has found no record that any formal communication was ever received by the Panel. This is regrettable and the Panel therefore thanks Deputy Gorst for highlighting this issue.

As it is, the Panel has no doubt that the work described in recommendations 17.1.8 and 17.2.1 does not fall within the remit of Scrutiny. Therefore, had the Panel been told of its apparent responsibilities, it could have advised the Executive of this fact. The Panel believes that an error has therefore been made by the Corporate Parent (that is to say, the Ministers for Health and Social Services; Education, Sport and Culture; and Home Affairs) in merely assuming that responsibility for recommendation 17.1.8 had passed to the former Social Affairs Scrutiny Panel.

It would appear that these two recommendations have therefore not been implemented. Indeed, the Panel has noted that the Williamson Report' included recommendations to a similar effect. The Panel would therefore recommend that the Corporate Parent re-examines these recommendations to ensure their implementation.

The Panel has maintained a good working relationship with the Ministers in its remit. However, this incident highlights the need for effective two-way communication to occur between the Executive and Scrutiny.

For ease of reference, recommendations 17.1.8 and 17.2.1 from Dr. K. Bull's report are enclosed below.

..........

Recommendations 17.1.8 and 17.2.1 of Review of the Principles, Practices and Provision for Children and Young People with Emotional and Behavioural Difficulties and Disorders in the Island of Jersey:

8. An External Independent Review Group be established to ensure accountability ofeach Committee (Ministry) in realising the targets set against the Partnership and Strategic Planning development and delivery. The group should include representatives who are specifically appointed to a guarantee efficiency of procedures, protocols and practices in establishing a Children's Executive, and, delivering a cohesive, cost effective and efficient overall service for children and young people with EBD.

17.2.1 Within a period of one year, or at the very latest by April of 2004, the existing remand provision be closed. A new facility, which meets the requirements laid out in the Strategic Plan and the subsequent Behaviour Management Programme, to be established to cater for the very specific needs of young people at risk to themselves and others. The use of such a facility – to be described in greater detail as part of a multi-purpose campus – be dictated and governed by the outcomes of detailed cross-agency assessment of both the offending behaviours and the social context in which the offender exists as well as the level of offence as categorised by a Tariff of Offending Behaviour (17.2.2). The welfare of those remanded or sentenced to the new facility should be paramount and, therefore, should form the basis of the treatment, care and educational services to be provided on site. The oversight of the new facility should fall to the Children's Executive. The management of the new facility should fall to a Director of Services. The postholder should be able to develop a unified and coalesced cross-agency service/facility and demonstrate high levels of knowledge and skill in relation to health care (psychiatric provision); educational developments; and social care structures. The Director should be accountable to the Children's Executive and his/her performance monitored against very specific targets set by them and reviewed on an annual basis, by the External Independent Review Group.

4. DEPUTY I.J. GORST OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE CHAIRMAN OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY AND HOUSING SCRUTINY PANEL REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE BULL REPORT: Question

R.89/2008 regarding the implementation of Dr. K. Bull's Report into Children with Social Emotional and Behavioural Difficulties (SEBD) states, with regard to recommendation 17.1.8, that 'a recommendation for an External Independent Review Group was effectively superseded by the introduction (under Ministerial Government) of the Social Affairs Scrutiny Panel' (Scrutiny panel now split into two).

Can the Chairman outline whether his panel have implemented the 'Bull' recommendations 17.1.8 and 17.2.1 (relating to the management of the revamped facility) and, if so, can he explain why they have not produced any report to show that this work has been undertaken?

Answer

I am slightly puzzled by the Deputy 's question insofar as he asks whether the Panel has implemented' the Bull recommendations, which would seem to imply that Scrutiny has some degree of executive responsibility in this matter. I was not a member of the former Social Affairs Panel and therefore cannot comment with authority on its business prior to the creation of the Health, Social Security and Housing Panel in late 2006. However, I am not aware of these particular matters having been referred at any point for consideration by Scrutiny and can confirm that they have not featured in any review in my Panel's work programme, which explains why no report has been produced on this issue by the Health, Social Security and Housing Panel.

5. DEPUTY I.J. GORST OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE BULL REPORT:

Question

R.89/2008 regarding the implementation of Dr. K. Bull's Report into Children with Social Emotional and Behavioural Difficulties (SEBD) states, with regard to recommendation 17.1.8, that 'a recommendation for an External Independent Review Group was effectively superseded by the introduction (under Ministerial Government) of the Social Affairs Scrutiny Panel' (Scrutiny panel now split into two).

1. Can the Minister explain how the Children's Executive arrived at this decision?
2. Was the decision was communicated to the Scrutiny function, and if so, how?
3. Did this decision meet both recommendations 17.1.8 and 17.2.1 (relating to the management ofthe re-vamped facility)?
4. How many times have Ministers appeared before Scrutiny Panels to discuss these recommendations?
5. Is the Children's Executive satisfied that its decision has worked in practice in a way envisaged by the 'Bull' report?

Answer

The context for the Deputy 's question is Dr Kathy Bull's report into "Children with Social Emotional and Behavioural Difficulties (SEBD)" published in December 2002. But there have been two significant events which have occurred in the intervening period which have both significantly influenced the validity and the continued relevance of this report. The first is the introduction of Ministerial Government – which has introduced the concept of scrutiny and challenge to the executive. The second is the publication of the Andrew Williamson Inquiry Report in June 2008 (officers from Health and Social Services, Home Affairs, and Education Sport and Culture are currently drafting a comprehensive plan which will enable the implementation of all of this inquiry's recommendations).

Having said this, I would wish now to respond to the Deputy 's five specific questions.

1. Can the Minister explain how the Children's Executive arrived at this decision?

When the Kathie Bull Report was published, the Committee-based system of government did not have a formal scrutiny and oversight function. The creation of this function – and particularly the creation of the Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel – makes the specific Kathie Bull recommendation no longer relevant. This was the view of the Children's Executive – a view which was reasonable for senior professional people to come to – and this view was then subsequently accepted by the three Ministers who form the

Corporate Parent (which is the body responsible for overseeing the work of the Children's Executive).

2. Was the decision communicated to the Scrutiny function, and if so, how?

The Children's Executive did not communicate this to the Scrutiny Panel, which was clearly an oversight for which I apologise.

3. Did this decision meet both recommendations 17.1.8 and 17.2.1 (relating to the management of the re-vamped facility)?

It is my judgement that the creation of this Scrutiny Panel does go some way to the creation of independent review'. However, the Andrew Williamson Inquiry has recommended the establishment of professional independent inspection and this particular recommendation is being addressed by officers as they seek to create the plan for the implementation of all of the recommendations of this inquiry – as I referred to above.

4. How many times have Ministers appeared beforeScrutiny Panels to discuss these recommendations?

Ministers have not appeared before a Scrutiny Panel to discuss these recommendations. The Scrutiny Panel in question discusses its forward working programme with relevant departments and these recommendations has never featured in those conversations latterly. I suspect the reason for this is that the States Assembly itself has been aware that the Andrew Williamson Inquiry was commissioned in August 2007 and was presented to the States Assembly in June 2008.

5. Is the Children's Executive satisfied that its decision has worked in practice in a way envisaged by the 'Bull' report?

Self evidently, R.89/2008 demonstrates that the Children's Executive has been very successful in delivering the major thrust of the Kathie Bull Report. The States should note this impressive record of achievement and I would like to take this opportunity of thanking all of the staff working in Children's Executive services for their professionalism and hard work over the years.

Notwithstanding this, the "Children's Executive Progress Report" – under cover of R.89/2008 – should be seen effectively as marking the end of an era as all services for children are now being redesigned to improve both managerial and political accountability as recommend by the Andrew Williamson inquiry.

6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE TENDER PROCESS AND CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENTS AT LIBERTY WHARF:

Question

Can the Chief Minister confirm whether the contractor on Liberty Wharf, Deerglen (Jersey) has had an adjudication awarded against the company to the amount of £146,000 owed to AKL (Air Conditioning Kent) Ltd now lodged in the High Court, Holborn and, if so, will he consider an investigation into the tender processes and contractual arrangements made by Harcourt on this project?

Answer

The matter to which the Deputy refers concerns legal action between two private companies relating to a commercial transaction. Consequently, it is not an issue which warrants the involvement or comment of the Chief Minister.

7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING THE APPOINTMENT OF AN EMPLOYER REPRESENTATIVE TO CHAIR THE NEW SKILLS EXCEUTIVE:

Question

Has the Minister yet succeeded in appointing an employer representative to chair the new Skills Executive and will he further give members details of the terms under which the post has been advertised both in the past and currently?

Answer

Following a full recruitment and selection process, chaired by a representative of the Appointments Commission, Mr Richard Plaster was appointed Chair of Skill's Jersey. Mr Plaster assumed the role of Chair on 1st October 2008.

The post was advertised twice. Initially as a voluntary position however this recruitment received a minimal response. After consultation with the Chairman of the Appointments Commission, the post was then re-advertised locally with a paid honorarium.

8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING POPULATION CONTROL POLICIES:

Question

Given that the Minister has publicly committed himself to population control, by imposing firm limits on the number of jobs created, does he consider that the latest figures on job growth to June 2008 from the Statistics Office which show that over 1500 jobs have been created in the past 12 months, 40% of which have gone to non-locally qualified people and J-cats, demonstrate that under his leadership of Economic Development that such firm limits have been successfully imposed?

Answer

It is exceedingly clear from the recent manpower report that although economic circumstances vary, the workforce in Jersey has not grown considerably over the years.

In June 1998 the workforce stood at 55,450, while 10 years later, in June 2008, it stood at 56,630. This is an increase of 1,180 jobs in 10 years - the sizeable majority being locally qualified persons. This is managed growth, and a successful record.

As to non local employment, this remains a small minority of all jobs, at around 14%, and is predominately in our vital agricultural, tourism, and hospitality industries, whom I have been happy to support. As to 1(1)(j) category consents, they are the responsibility of the Minister for Housing - whose policies I fully support.

9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING POPULATION CONTROL POLICIES:

Question

Does the Chief Minister accept, in the light of recent population, immigration and job growth figures that one of the first tasks of a new Council of Ministers will be to bring to the Assembly a policy for controlling population and, if not, why not?

Answer

The latest figures on the performance of the economy show that in recent years the Island has been successful in achieving a difficult balance between strong economic growth (based on significant improvements in productivity), higher employment of local people and controlled inward migration. The economy grew by 7% in real terms in 2006 and 2007 with total GVA 6% higher than in the previous peak in 2000. This has been achieved whilst containing growth in the workforce over the five years to 2007 below the 1% target set by the States. As a result, total employment in the Island in June 2008 was only 2% (1,200 people) higher than ten years ago in June 1998.

In its Keeping Jersey Special' report, published in July 2008, the current Council of Ministers identified that meeting the challenge of the ageing population whilst maintaining the Island as a successful and wonderful place to live will require the right balance between social, economic and environmental policies.

Based on detailed analysis and consultation with the public, the report concluded that, whilst it is possible to combine the above policies to reach a sustainable path to meet the challenges ahead, this is unlikely to be achieved without some level of inward migration.

It is not for me to decide on the future actions of the next Council of Ministers. However, I am sure that new Council will look to address the central issues within the Keeping Jersey Special' report, including policy for population, as part of the development of its Strategic Plan which will be produced in the early part of 2009.

10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE EXTENSION OF SAVINGS GUARANTEES TO JERSEY Question

What response, if any, has been received from the governments of major European banking centres to the Island's request to extend any savings guarantees to the £196 billion held in Jersey?

What realistic prospect is there of getting such guarantees for the commitment of European tax payers' money without damaging breaches of privacy?

Answer

Neither I nor my Ministers nor the Jersey Financial Services Commission have ever suggested asking European Countries to extend their savings guarantees to cover the money that is held in Jersey. We have said that our confidence is based on the strength of Banks in Jersey who are systemic banks in the top 500 and our very clear expectation that they will be supported by their home country.

The actions of the UK and the other EU countries has confirmed our belief that the best guarantee of the deposits held in Jersey branches and subsidiaries lies in the strength of their parent banks and in the degree of support extended to those banks by the governments of their respective jurisdictions. Where that support has been forthcoming, as in the manner of the United Kingdom Government whereby the parent banks have been strengthened through re-capitalisation and liquidity support, the established commercial relationship between the parent banks and their Jersey branches or subsidiaries can be relied upon to safeguard depositors.

The approach adopted by the United Kingdom Government  is being followed by many other jurisdictions including those of the parent banks of all systemically important parent banks of branches and subsidiaries in Jersey.

The Jersey Financial Services Commission is in regular contact with the European regulators responsible for the parent banks of the Jersey branches and subsidiaries. They are monitoring any developments and there is a direct line to Ministers in relation to advice and any necessary action. We stand ready to approach the governments of the major European banking centres if this is seen to be necessary. To-date however the very positive response by the governments of the major European banking centres to the current financial crisis, from which Jersey bank depositors will benefit, has meant that such approaches are not called for.

As we are not asking for European money to support our banks there is no question of any changes to the structure of the client banking relationship.

11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHAIRMAN OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE REGARDING EFFICIENCY SAVINGS:

Question

In the light of the Comptroller and Auditor General's reservations expressed in paragraph 21 of his report of May 2008 "Emerging Issues" on the scope for further expenditure reductions, does the Public Accounts Committee consider that the savings can be made as efficiency savings, rather than as service cuts?

Answer

The Comptroller and Auditor General's report indicates a number of ways in which the States may be able to go about saving money. These are all clearly set out in his report which was published in May 2008.

The planning required will be the responsibility of the Ministers and of the Council of Ministers but the way in which the suggestions are implemented will, in the end, be a matter for the States.

The Public Accounts Committee believes that in many cases reductions in service will not result from the steps that are eventually taken, although this does not mean that there will be no changes to service.

12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING INCOME SUPPORT FOR PARENTS ATTENDING THE ACCESS COURSE AT HIGHLANDS:

Question

Will the Minister inform members whether the "Access to Higher Education" course at Highlands College qualifies for child care assistance to parents under Income Support, and if not, why not?

Answer

The "Access to Higher Education" course at Highlands College is an intensive one-year course to prepare mature students for university entrance.

Given the major commitment and intensive nature of the "Access to Higher Education" course, it would be unusual for this course to be approved in respect of a parent who has the main care of a very young child or baby.

13. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING INCENTIVES TO WORK AND SAVE UNDER INCOME SUPPORT:

Question

Will the Minister inform members what mechanisms, if any, he is pursuing to give better incentives to those taking up work and to protect pensioner savings under Income Support?

Answer

Proposition P.163, lodged today, sets out better incentives for taking up work and increased disregards for pensioner incomes.

The package of measures included in P.163 includes an increase in earned income disregards from 6% to 10%. It also includes an increase in the disregard made against pension income. The vast majority of pensioners do receive some pension income whereas only a relatively small minority have savings in excess of the current savings disregards. Increasing the disregard against pension income ensures that almost all pensioners will benefit from this measure.

The arrangements for pensioners' savings under income support are more generous than the previous parish welfare system. The value of capital that is fully disregarded was increased by 50% with the introduction of Income Support, and has been uprated since then. The mechanism for producing a deemed income is also more generous than the former parish system.

Single pensioners with savings of up to £11,866 and couples with savings of up to £19,669 receive their full entitlement to Income Support and also benefit from any income on their savings, which is disregarded from the calculation. Above these levels pensioners still qualify for income support but at a reducing level as their savings increase. These limits were uprated in October 2008 and will be kept under regular review.

14. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING HOW CHANGES IN CIRCUMSTANCES OF INCOME SUPPORT APPLICANTS WERE ADDRESSED:

Question

Will the Minister inform members whether Income Support applicants who notify the department of a change of circumstances promptly on finding or returning to work and thereby increasing their income, are routinely charged for an "overpayment" of benefit for the time taken to establish their new level of benefit?

Can he further state whether in such circumstances the Department may insist on the repayment of this "overpayment" within 6 months, leading to weekly repayments of £12 on an overpayment of £300, and if so, will he inform members what actions, if any, he is prepared to take to rectify the situation to avoid pushing families further into poverty?

Answer

No, there are no routine charges for "overpayment" as suggested by the question. However, if an income support claimant fails to notify the department of a change of circumstance that would lead to a reduction in benefit, then the department has the legal right to recover the overpayment that has been made.

If an overpayment is to be recovered, weekly repayments over an extended timeframe will be agreed with the claimant. The purpose of the weekly repayments is to correct an overpayment which occurred because the claimant received too much benefit for a period of time as a result of the failure to inform the Department that the household income had  increased. There is no suggestion that a family in this situation would be "pushed further into poverty".

If the claimant informs the Department of the change at the time, then no repayment is required.

15. DEPUTY C.J. SCOTT WARREN OF ST. SAVIOUR OF TO THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING APPOINTMENTS AT DOCTORS' SURGERIES BETWEEN JANUARY AND SEPTEMBER 2008:

Question

Would the Minister provide members with data showing the total number of appointments at doctors' surgeries each month between January and September 2008, and also provide comparative data for the same period of 2007?

Answer

The table shows the number of GP consultations on a monthly basis. It should be noted that a monthly analysis has limited significance as the number of GP visits will be affected by the weather conditions and outbreaks of flu and other viruses from time to time.

For example, for the period requested, January to September, the number of visits in 2008 is 2,481 less than the corresponding period in 2007. However, the number of visits between February and September 2008 (since Income Support has been introduced) is 1,720 more than 2007.

4. Oral Questions The Deputy Bailiff :

We come on to oral questions and the first question is by Deputy Southern of the Minister for Social Security.

Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement :

Sir, perhaps I could beg your and the House's indulgence. I have an oral question tabled at number 6 but I must leave the Assembly by 10.15 a.m. to attend a funeral of a parishioner. I wonder if I could be indulged and take my question first?

The Deputy Bailiff :

Do the other Members agree? There seems to be plenty of time for all the questions. Then, Deputy Gorst , if you would ask your question, which is number 6, of the Chief Minister.

1. Deputy  I.J.   Gorst  of  the  Chief  Minister  regarding  the  employment  of  people  with disabilities by the States Employment Board during 2008:

Thank you. Given that the Council of Ministers agreed to double the number of people with disabilities employed by the States Employment Board during 2008, can the Chief Minister confirm how many additional people, if any, have been employed?

Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):

The States Employment Board set a target for 2008 to increase by 13 the number of individuals with a disability employed by the States of Jersey. We can confirm that 20 individuals with disabilities have taken up employment with the States of Jersey during 2008 and this is in addition to those who are employed on special schemes in non-core posts. In addition there are nearly 100 individuals who are undertaking therapeutic work with the States of Jersey through job scope. This therapeutic work is not regarded as employment as individuals do not have a contract of employment and they receive a therapeutic expense rate, not a wage. However, they are engaged in meaningful work and in many cases will develop the skills and confidence to move into paid employment in the future.

4.1.1 Deputy I.J. Gorst :

Thank you. Can the Chief Minister confirm that those 20 newly employed individuals with disabilities are employed by a contract via the States Employment Board as would every other employee of the States be?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I cannot answer that question in detail but I believe that to be the case, but I can certainly confirm that to the Deputy later in the day.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Minister for Social Security regarding overpayment of Income Support:

Will the Minister advise Members how many recipients of income support either starting or returning to work have been charged for overpayments and detail a range of sums and payments involved?

Senator P.F. Routier (The Minister for Social Security):

The income support system is designed not to make a charge for overpayments when someone returns to work, and when the department is informed in a timely manner. In general terms, if an individual fails to inform the department of an increase in household income then the department has the right to recover this overpayment of benefit when it is identified. The amount of extra benefit is normally repaid by means of regular deductions from future income support payments over a period of months. I would like to take the opportunity to remind income support claimants of the importance of notifying the department promptly when there is a change in the household income. I can assure Members that if someone does notify the department at the correct time and then there is a delay in processing a claim after it has been received, the department will not ask for any benefit overpayments  made during that time to be returned. With regard to the specific question, the department does not hold the information in the format the Deputy requests but if the Deputy has a specific individual concern, I would be happy for my department to review the matter.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Supplementary, if I may. Is the Minister aware that despite prompt information being received by the department about a return to work, and the final details being finalised within 3 weeks, a couple - a family - were placed in the situation of having a £300 charge made on them, which was to be reduced off their income support, thus putting them no better off on return to work.

Senator P.F. Routier:

I am not aware of that particular case, as I mentioned earlier, if the Deputy has a specific case he wants to discuss with me, I would be very happy to do that. The situation with regard claiming back from people is not something we would want to do but we have to ensure that if people do have a change of circumstances and they are earning more money, that we are informed appropriately and at the right time. There is, I believe, a need to ensure that people are given time to adjust to their new circumstances and the department will be working to those guidelines when we go forward.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

If I may press the Minister. Does the Minister consider that 3 weeks from beginning to end is too long a period and therefore those charges should have been made?

Senator P.F. Routier:

I think I would agree with the Deputy , certainly, that if after a period of 3 weeks someone has changed their circumstances and I would hope that we would be in a position whereby if somebody does enter the workplace and does inform the department immediately that a period of 3 weeks is too short. It is something I would like to work towards if that is not happening in a particular case. As I say, if the Deputy has a particular case, I would be happy to look at it.

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding the issue of a Disclosure Notice by the police in respect of a public servant's alleged actions:

What consequences follow if a disclosure notice is issued by the police in respect of a public servant's alleged actions?

Senator F.H. Walker (The Chief Minister):

The consequences of receiving a disclosure notice from the police are as follows. First, management would seek as much additional information from the police as they can provide on the basis for the allegations. Second, each case would be taken very seriously indeed while recognising that each case is unique. Third, management will make a risk analysis of what action should be taken depending on the facts of the disclosure notice and the nature of the employee's job. Action taken must be commensurate with the allegations. Actions which would be taken include the following: seek further information from the police; redeployment if, for example, it is considered that the employee needs to be removed from his or her current job but that no difficulties exist in their being temporarily redeployed to another job pending further information from the police; precautionary suspension if it is deemed that there is strong evidence for the allegations and that it would be inappropriate for the employee to remain at work pending police investigations. The priority is always to protect the interests of the public or vulnerable clients. Once that has been secured the employer must have regard to its contractual duty of care to the employee who is judged to be innocent until proven to be guilty.

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Would the Chief Minister outline whether the States Employment Board and, indeed, the Human Resources Department, has a policy in respect of reputational risk where, for example, a civil servant may be at a very senior position in the organisation. Would he comment on whether a suspension is by far the best as a neutral act in order that the investigation can proceed, as we have, for example, seen in respect recently of a senior member of the judiciary and of a senior member of a voluntary organisation?

Senator F.H. Walker :

The States Employment Board certainly takes the reputational risk to the States and to the Island very seriously indeed. As for the second part of the Deputy 's question, it must depend on the circumstances of the individual case concerned.

2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

I must push the point. Is the Chief Minister saying that in terms of, for example, precautionary suspension where the issue may hypothetically or not revolve around a very senior person, he believes that if it does revolve around them, the criteria will apply and that it does not take on a much greater degree of seriousness and therefore requires much firmer and clearer action?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I do not disagree with the thrust of the Deputy 's question but I repeat, each such question, each such matter, has to be considered and acted upon its merits and, of course, the advice from the police is extremely important in arriving at any decision.

3. Deputy S.C. Ferguson of St. Brelade :

Later today we are debating the suspension of Ministers, should the same parameters not apply to civil servants?

Senator F.H. Walker :

The rules concerning civil servants are very clearly laid out and are followed.

4. Deputy S.C. Ferguson:

But in the interests of transparency and openness, would it not have been more politic to have garden leave for anybody in this position?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I repeat that every case is judged on its merits and that the advice from the police is very important in enabling the States Employment Board to come to a decision.

5. Senator S. Syvret:

In the event of a very senior States employee being under serious police investigation for repeated episodes of violent child abuse, would the Chief Minister consider that to be a sufficiently serious matter and of sufficient reputational risk for the States of Jersey to at least merit suspension?

Senator F.H. Walker :

I am not going to get drawn into the trap of discussing individual cases, all I will say is that in common with everybody else, States employees are innocent until proved guilty and the appropriate action is taken in every case.

6. Senator S. Syvret:

Does the Chief Minister accept and recognise the current state of Jersey employment policy that suspension is a neutral act, it is not deemed as a punishment and it is precautionary and best management practice?

Senator F.H. Walker :

Yes.

7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Would the Chief Minister outline, for example, when a very senior civil servant is involved, who takes the actual decision and would he not acknowledge that police advice is not advice as to whether suspension should or should not take place? That is a separate issue.

Senator F.H. Walker :

The decision is taken by the Chief Executive in consultation with the States Employment Board. Of course the police do not and cannot advise on whether or not an individual should be suspended. However, the police will, as I said in my answer, be asked to and do provide as much information as they are able to do at any particular stage in the investigation. I repeat proper procedures are clearly laid out, proper procedures have been and are being followed in every single case.

8. Senator S. Syvret:

Does the Chief Minister really not consider, given the seriousness of the issue and the nature of the investigations that are taking place, that it is wholly inappropriate for [name omitted in accordance with States decision of 18th January 2011], the Chief Officer of the Education Department to remain at work? [name omitted in accordance with States decision of 18th January 2011].

The Deputy Bailiff :

Senator Syvret, you, along with everyone else, are aware of Standing Order 104 which says that you should not refer to an individual's name unless it is unavoidable. You deliberately

Senator S. Syvret:

It is unavoidable and it is necessary in the public interest. The Deputy Bailiff :

It is certainly not unavoidable. You need not answer that question, Senator, because it is an inappropriate question. It was a highly inappropriate question.

Senator F.H. Walker :

I need not answer the question but may I express my abhorrence at the question and the fact that Senator has yet again flagrantly and knowingly broken the rules of this Assembly. [Approbation]

The Deputy Bailiff :

Can I perhaps remind Members why that rule is there. Parliamentary privilege is an absolutely vital part of a democracy, Members must be free to speak their minds but with that comes responsibility to not cast aspersions on those who are not in a position to defend themselves before this Assembly.

Senator S. Syvret:

Do you accept, on a point of order, that it is in fact done from time to time in the House of Commons, for example, that M.P.s (Members of Parliament) name individuals when there is a public interest reason for doing so?

The Deputy Bailiff :

I have accepted that parliamentary privilege exists. It is up to Members to exercise restraint and responsibility. We come then, I think, to the next question, which is a question that Deputy Southern will ask of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the terms and conditions which are currently applied to maternity leave and pay for teachers:

Will the Minister outline for Members the terms and conditions which are currently applied to maternity leave and pay for teachers?

Senator M.E. Vibert (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):

May I regret the previous incident and say I dislike intensely what appears to be McCarthyism creeping into this chamber. But in answer to the question of Deputy Southern in order to qualify for maternity leave a teacher must normally be employed on a permanent basis and have completed one year's service including a satisfactory probation period. A period of 18 weeks including school holiday periods is allowed for maternity leave although in exceptional circumstances this may be extended to 26 weeks at the discretion of the department. A teacher is paid 90 per cent of his or her normal pensionable pay for 12 weeks of her maternity, the balance - the 6 unpaid weeks or 14 weeks in exceptional circumstances - counts as continuous service.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Supplementary if I may? Is the Minister aware that the interpretation of the regulations is such that even one day's sick leave during the period after return to work is counted as breaking continuous service and that teachers are effectively forcing themselves into work against health and safety practice in order to maintain their maternity pay.

Senator M.E. Vibert :

There have been discussions with the teachers' unions about changes to the conditions of service. The arrangement in respect of maternity pay for teachers is directly comparable to civil servants and manual workers. If a teacher is certified medically unfit to return to work the period of maternity leave can be extended on the production of a medical certificate. Any such extension of leave will be unpaid.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is the Minister satisfied that such an extension meets the needs of returning mothers and does he accept that a condition of one day's sick pay will break the continuous period is an unreasonable one for his department to be demanding?

Senator M.E. Vibert :

It is not a question of demanding, it is a question of the currently agreed conditions of service which are open to negotiation and I regret that an offer made to change some of those conditions of service were not accepted by the unions.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Final question. Then I shall change the wording and say does the Minister not accept that such conditions are unreasonable on the part of the employer?

Senator M.E. Vibert :

I repeat, we have tried to renegotiate some of the conditions and so far that has not been successfully agreed with unions.

5. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s regarding the availability of ballot papers for pre-poll or postal votes for the Deputies Elections:

Given that ballot papers for pre-poll or postage votes were not available until almost 2 weeks after the Senator's nomination meeting and 2 weeks before their election, what arrangements, if any, have been taken to ensure that similar delays do not occur for the Deputies elections where there is only a 3 week period between their nomination and their election?

Connétable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen (The Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s):

Arrangements for the printing of the ballot papers in the 17 Deputy elections have already been reviewed and discussed with the printers and the Connétable s are satisfied that there will be no delay in printing ballot papers for the forthcoming Deputies election. The nomination meetings are on 4th November and the Judicial Greffe will receive 2 books for every election by 9.00 a.m. on Friday, 7th November. This is 2 working days after the nomination meeting and 19 days prior to the election dates.

1. The Deputy of St. Martin :

I thank the Connétable for his answer but I could ask, is there any reason why there was this 2 week delay before the ballot papers were available after the nominations?

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

The arrangements had been that the papers for the referendum would have been printed prior to the nomination meetings. Unfortunately the printers decided to do all the ballot papers, including the referendum papers at the same time and experienced some problems in producing them. This was the reason for the delays.

2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

When reviewing the issue of the ballot papers will the Committee be reviewing one of the great issues of our time: biros versus blunt pencils? [Laughter]

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

The decision about using biros or blunt pencils is ultimately that of the Jurats who handle the election.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Will the Chairman inform Members how many postal votes were used in this election and compare it with the previous Senatorial election figures?

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

I promise to make that information available to Members as soon as I can.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Finally, is the Chairman aware that there was no letterbox on the centre which was in charge of postal voting therefore it was impossible for anybody to return requests for postal voting out of office hours to the right place?

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

I thank the Deputy for informing me of that and that is a matter which I will take up with the Judicial Greffier.

5. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville :

Would the Chairman agree with me that the instructions sent down to the Parish Hall s very clearly stated that we must provide either biro or pencil? Thank you. [Laughter]

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

Yes.

6. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier :

I am sorry it is along the same lines. I did receive a concerned telephone call from a constituent who complained that while trying to vote she was unable to because of the fact that the pencil was blunt and had complained now Members may or may not have experienced this, but my constituent who telephoned me was very upset. I am being serious and I would expect Members to just bear with me because this was a genuine complaint, I am trying to ask a question. In the event there are pencils used in these ballots, if these pencils are going to be used can the Constable please ensure that there are sharpeners or also extra pencils available because this lady was very upset.

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

It is normal procedure to have spare pencils/biros available at every polling station.

7. Deputy G.P. Southern :

In the absence of the ability of candidates or their agents to deliver postal vote request forms to the required authorities, will the Chairman raise with the appropriate authorities the possibility of sending out a stamped addressed envelope for return on request of a postal voting request form in order that those who have to do it by post, those disabled, are not penalised by having to pay 35p in order to vote?

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

I experience as much difficulty in understanding the question as the Deputy did in posing it. [Laughter] Maybe if he were to put that request to me in writing I promise I will deal with it.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

I certainly will.

8. Senator P.F. Routier:

Is the Constable aware that the Jurats at the polling stations have managed to help a significant number of people who have disabilities to go into the polling station and help them to cast their votes rather than making polling votes which I mean, there has been some suggestion that postal votes have been interfered with. I know that is something that has been suggested but the option for people with disabilities to go into the polling station, even when they are blind, to have a Jurat to help them with casting their vote is a way forward for those people to cast their vote.

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

It is certainly my understanding that this is the process which is used at the moment and I am aware that a number of disabled voters were able to cast their vote quite normally at polling stations.

9. Deputy G.P. Southern :

If I may? One more. Is the Chairman aware of how many people turned up to vote and were unable to do so because they were not on the register at this particular election?

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

I am aware in St. Ouen but I am not aware Island-wide until I ask the question of my fellow Connétable s, and I will give you that answer.

10. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

Seeing as we are on this subject I thought I might try a second go at this. The referendum proved to be an excellent exercise in conducting referenda in Jersey, the result in itself was interesting. It may have drawn-up some interesting things to bear in mind for future referendums which might have more gravity. Does the Constable agree with me that it was useful and is the Constable aware of any issues in regard to the referendum that we are not aware of and is there any truth that some people were being offered the opportunity to participate in the referendum in some parishes and just handed the referendum in others? Is there not a need for uniformity in these issues?

The Connétable of St. Ouen :

A meeting has already been pencilled-in [Laughter] for the Jurats and the Connétable s to meet together early in the new year to discuss any items which have arisen over the multiple election system which we have adopted this year, and I assure the House that if there are any recommendations to be made the Comité des Connétable s will make them to the House.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy of St. Martin , do you wish to have a final question? The Deputy of St. Martin :

No, other than to remind the Connétable that I will be around on the 7th if they are not available.

6. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding action taken by Environmental Health Officers as a result of a recent incident at the harbour:

Would the Minister explain what action, if any, was taken by his Environmental Health Officers as a result of the recent incident at the harbour which occurred during the unloading of aggregate for use in the airport runway project?

Senator B.E. Shenton (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

The Health Protection Service received 2 complaints alleging dust nuisance from the unloading of aggregate at the harbour on 30th September and 1st October. Initially the matter was raised with the harbour authorities on 30th September with a view of securing suitable dust suppression to prevent recurring emissions as the loading activity was undertaken. The problem was associated with fine grade aggregate being discharged from a boat in windy conditions. Later deliveries of aggregate were of a more coarse nature and therefore did not raise the same problem. Given the difficulties which arose, which had been obvious to the operators - and the J.E.P (Jersey Evening Post) picture of 1st October graphically captured it - it is surprising that handling activities were not immediately suspended by the harbour authorities and only resumed upon provision of adequate dust suppression being provided or the climatic conditions changing.

1. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Does the Minister consider that information should be given in such instances to those affected, not least the Parish authority in which the incidents take place, and would he agree that on this occasion it was left to the media to publicise the fact that the incident had occurred and that according the harbour official consulted that nothing harmful or corrosive was released into the atmosphere?

Senator B.E. Shenton:

I would agree with the Constable on that matter. I received a complaint at home on the evening of 30th September from a member of the public who thought there was a cement boat being unloaded illegally and was concerned about the health implications of that. I went down to the harbour but unfortunately the unloading had finished by the time I got there. The aggregate being despatched from the boat was non-toxic and could be classified more of a nuisance than anything else but you would have thought that people unloading the boat and the harbour authorities would have used a little bit of common sense because certainly when I went down there in evening the amount of dust in the area was quite unacceptable.

2. The Connétable of St, Helier:

A final supplementary. Is the Minister satisfied that the Health Protection Unit is sufficiently independent and impartial from the States bodies whose activities it regulates in order to do its job properly.

Senator B.E. Shenton:

I believe it is independent and impartial and certainly as a Minister I do not tend to interfere in any way, shape or form into what they do when dealing with individual matters. However, I would say that perhaps they should have taken more action in this particular instance and I think a meeting between them and the harbour authorities to ensure that a reoccurrence does not occur would be a very good idea.

3. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade :

I understand that a company of cleaners have been engaged to clean the numerous leisure craft lying around the area. Could the Minister confirm who would be paying for that contract?

Senator B.E. Shenton:

Well, it certainly will not be me. One would assume that this is down to the harbour authorities and I would suggest that the question is directed towards the person responsible for the harbour.

7. Deputy D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding the publication and implementation of the Integrated Travel and Transport Policy:

Given that in R.101/2008 - Committee of Inquiry into Fields 848, 851 and 853 Bel Royal, St. Lawrence Final Report - the Committee recommended that the Minister should take the necessary steps to publish and to implement the Integrated Travel and Transport Policy without delay, when will the Minister be complying with the recommendation?

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye of St. Helier (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):

That Committee of Inquiry made a number of interesting recommendations and, in fact, linked to that particular recommendation the Committee indicated that it would be valuable to have an Island-wide traffic management study, which indeed has merit, although I have to advise Members that to date the department concentrates its traffic management studies around the town and the southern cross-routes where clearly most of the congestion occurs. I want to emphasise that the department is currently not operating in a vacuum as we already have a sustainable travel policy in place and no one regrets more than myself the fact that a number of intervening matters have delayed the publication for consultation and ultimately debate of the Integrated Travel and Transport Policy. I am currently considering, given how near we are to effectively a change into a new States, submitting the Travel and Transport Strategy as a report for Members to be able to consult in some detail. I remind Members that the early consultation draft has been a public document for over a year and is on the Transport and Technical Services website. But I think at this stage of proceedings it would be inappropriate, given the number of States meetings we have left, for me to push through a particular policy when there may well be a change of Minister within a matter of weeks.

4.7.1 Deputy D.W. Mezbourian :

If I may, the Minister referred to the original document which I understand was withdrawn in order to provide more information, and I wonder whether he will advise the House when the revised document is presented whether it will, in fact, address the issue of speed and speed limits and, if not, why not?

Deputy G.W.J. de Faye:

The strategy will to some extent address the matter of speed and speed limits but not in detail because I need to advise the Constable-elect - and congratulations on that - I need to advise the current Deputy for St. Lawrence that I think during a time when she was not in the House the House approved a Speed Limits law. There is in fact very comprehensive legislation and reports in detail to deal with speed limits quite separately from the Integrated Travel and Transport Plan.

8. The Deputy of St. Martin of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the work being  undertaken  by  the  Officer Working  Group established to  consider  the various options for the future of Haut de la Garenne:

Will the Minister give an update of the work being undertaken by the officer working group established to consider the various options for the future of Haut de la Garenne and to advise on the cost benefit and any other implications that might arise?

The Deputy Bailiff :

Assistant Minister, you are going to answer in the absence of the Minister?

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources):

I am afraid it is a very short answer. Members may welcome it. The officer working group has commenced its work but is obviously not yet in a position to report given the recent creation of that group.

4.8.1 The Deputy of St. Martin :

Could I ask the Assistant Minister when the working group did meet and who are members of that working group?

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:

As to when the working group met, I am not in a position to comment but I will find out. The group is chaired by the Head of Property Holdings and I will let the Deputy know the other members of that group when I have the information. Thank you.

9. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the potential withdrawal by the United Kingdom from the reciprocal health agreement with the Island:

Further to news that the United Kingdom may withdraw from the reciprocal health agreement, what steps, if any, will the Minister take to protect Jersey residents who require treatment in the U.K. (United Kingdom)?

Senator B.E. Shenton (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

I am pleased to advise the Deputy that we will take every step possible to protect the Jersey resident that may be vacationing in the U.K. and require treatment. We are working very closely with our counterparts in the Isle of Man and Guernsey with regard to negotiations with the U.K. in respect of the reciprocal health agreement and I am fairly confident that it will still be in place in 2009 and perhaps even beyond. What we have to do as a department and as a body is ensure that no one is disadvantaged by the reciprocal health agreement if it does not remain in place and certainly we will have to make sure that people can travel freely without people being discriminated against because of a health condition or because of a disablement or any other factor. But negotiations are ongoing. I would just like to add that because we are negotiating with the U.K. in a sort of triangular measure - Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man - if you require specific information it will be better if we gave information out as a core group as opposed to one area saying one thing and another area saying another but negotiations are ongoing and my Chief Officer came back from the Isle of Man about 2 weeks ago and had some very fruitful meetings up there.

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I thank and welcome the Minister's reply. As the Minister is no doubt aware, many Jersey residents will need medical treatment in the U.K., both presently and in the future and it will not be possible for senior citizens to obtain the necessary medical insurance which would be wholly unacceptable. There is also the contrary argument that anybody coming from the U.K. or, indeed, other British Isles will need medical insurance and this could impact in this time of economic climate on Jersey tourism. Does the Minister not agree?