States Meeting Transcript - 13/07/2009

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT MONDAY, 13th JULY 2009

QUESTIONS......................................................................................8

1. Written Questions........................................................................8

1. DEPUTY S.S.P.A. POWER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING CHANGES TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE (YOUNG OFFENDERS) (JERSEY) LAW 1994:..................................................8
2. SENATOR B.E. SHENTON OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING CHANGES TO THE FUNDING OF SUCCESSFUL MAGISTRATE'S COURT PROSECUTIONS:......................................................................8
3. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING INCREASES IN SALARY AND WAGES BETWEEN THE YEARS 2007 AND 2008:.............................................9
4. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING INCREASES IN SALARY AND WAGES BETWEEN THE YEARS 2007 AND 2008:.............................................9
5. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING INCREASES IN SALARY AND WAGES BETWEEN THE YEARS 2007 AND 2008:..............................................................11
6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING NURSING VACANCIES:.................13
7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE SUCCESS OF INCOME SUPPORT AS AN IN WORK' BENEFIT:....................................................................14
8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE JOB GROUPS COMPARISONS WITHIN THE COMMENTS ON THE PROPOSITION ENTITLED "STATES EMPLOYEES: PAY INCREASE FOR 2009/2010 (p.68/2009 - AMENDMENT":..............................................15
9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE ECONOMIC ADVISER'S ANALYSIS OF THE SIZE OF THE DOWNTURN IN JERSEY'S ECONOMY:.......................16
10. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE CONTINGENCY PLANS FOR STAFFING AT THE HOSPITAL SHOULD THERE BE A MAJOR SWINE FLU OUTBREAK: ...........16
11. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE COST OF PROVIDING BLACKBERRIES AND MOBILE TELEPHONES TO MINISTERS AND ASSISTANT MINISTERS:...................17
12. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE EFFECTIVE TAX RATE FOR ALL 1(1)(K) RESIDENTS CURRENTLY LIVING IN THE ISLAND: ..............................20
13. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE NUMBER OF EMERGENCY SERVICES VISITS TO ST. SAVIOUR'S HOSPITAL AND THE OTHER MENTAL HEALTH ESTABLISHMENTS OVER THE PAST 5 YEARS: ..................................20

14. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE SELECTION OF A CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS TO CONDUCT THE COMMITTEE OF INQUIRY INTO THE REG'S SKIPS LIMITED PLANNING APPLICATION:........................................................................21
15. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING THE USE OF LAPTOPS IN THE CHAMBER:.......................................................21

2. Oral Questions...........................................................................22

1. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding Operation Blast:...................................................................................22 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................22

1. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................23
2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................23
3. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier:......................................................23
4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:.....................................................23
5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier : ..................................................24
6. Deputy P.J. Rondel of St. John : ........................................................24
7. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.......................................................24
8. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................24

2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the funding crisis surrounding the Jersey Heritage Trust: ....................25 Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):..............25

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................26
2. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade : ........................................................26
3. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier:...............................................26
4. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................26
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................26
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................27
7. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................27
8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................27

3. Deputy S. Power of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the inappropriate feeding of seagulls by householders in high density housing areas: ......28 Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.................28

1. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................28
2. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier:..........................................................28
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................29
4. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................29

4. Deputy A.E. Jeune of St. Brelade of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding providing appropriate training to match job vacancies in the Island:..........29 The Deputy of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):....................29

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................30
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier:........................................................30
3. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................30
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................30
5. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................30

5. The Deputy of St. John of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the mooring list at La Collette Marina: .....................................................31 Senator P.F. Routier (Assistant Minister for Economic Development - rapporteur):..........31

1. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................31

2. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................31
3. Connétable P.F.M. Hanning of St. Saviour : ............................................32

6. The Deputy of St. Martin of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the payment of compensation in the event that States of Jersey police officers damage property when gaining entry to premises:..............................................................33 Senator B.I. Le Marquand:....................................................................33

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................33
2. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................33
3. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................33
4. Senator S. Syvret:......................................................................34
5. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................34

7. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the duration and cost of the suspension of the Chief Officer of the States of Jersey Police: ..............34 Senator B.I. Le Marquand:....................................................................34

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................35
2. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................35
3. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................35
4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................35
5. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................36

8. Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the payment of £340,000 as a loyalty' bonus to seven senior management figures at Jersey Telecom: .........................................................................................36 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):............................36

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................37
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................37
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................37
4. Deputy S. Pitman of St. Helier:.........................................................37
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................37
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................38
7. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................38
8. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................38
9. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................39

10. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................39
11. Deputy A.E. Jeune : ..................................................................39
12. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................39
13. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................39
14. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................40

9. The Deputy of St. John of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the length of time the fisheries vessel the Norman Le Brocq has been out of service over the last 12 months:.................................................................................40 Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement (Assistant Minister for Economic Development - rapporteur):.............................................................................40

1. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................40
2. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................40
3. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................41
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................41
5. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................41
6. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................41

10. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour to the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding banning from all schools very high caffeine energy drinks:..................41 The Deputy of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):....................41

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis : .................................................................42

2. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................42
3. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................42
4. Deputy K.C. Lewis : .................................................................42

11. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the deployment of community police officers in the Parishes:...........................................43 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................43

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................43
2. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................43
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................43

12. Senator A. Breckon of the Minister for Housing regarding the determination of the prices for the 46 residential units at La Providence.:...........................................43 Deputy S. Power (Assistant Minister for Housing - rapporteur):..............................44

1. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................44
2. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................44
3. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................44
4. Deputy S.Pitman:...................................................................45
5. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................45 Deputy M. Tadier : ............................................................................45 Deputy K.C. Lewis :..........................................................................45

13. Senator A. Breckon of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the drainage system for the development known as La Providence constructed on Goose Green Marsh:..................................................................................46

1. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................46
2. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................46
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................46
4. Deputy J.B. Fox:....................................................................47
5. Deputy S.Power:....................................................................47
6. Senator B.E. Shenton: ...............................................................47
7. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................47
8. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................47

14. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Chief Minister regarding research into pay awards in the private sector for 2009:.................................................................47 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):.................................................48

3. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Economic Development..48

1. Deputy C.H. Egré of St. Peter:..........................................................48 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................48
2. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................48

3.2.1 Deputy S. Pitman:......................................................................49

3. Deputy A.T. Dupre of St. Clement:.....................................................49
4. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour:.....................................................49
5. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................49
6. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................50
7. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................50

3.7.1 Deputy T.M. Pitman:...................................................................50

8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................50

3.8.1 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................51

9. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................51

3.9.1 Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................51

10. Deputy D.J.A. Wimberley of St. Mary:.................................................51
11. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................52

4. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Chief Minister..........................52

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................52 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):.................................................52

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................52
   2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................53

4.2.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................53

3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................53
4. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................53
5. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................54
6. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................54
7. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................54
8. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................55
9. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:....................................................55
10. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................55
11. Deputy S.Pitman:......................................................................56
12. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................56

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................57

5. The Minister for Health and Social Services will make a statement regarding the pandemic flu outbreak..................................................................57

5.1 The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):..................57

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................58
2. Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary : ...................................................59
3. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................59
4. Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement:.......................................................59
5. Deputy J.B. Fox:........................................................................59
6. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................59

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................60

6. Draft Sea Fisheries (Satellite Monitoring) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.56/2009).....60

6.1 The Connétable of St. Clement (Assistant Minister for Economic Development - rapporteur):.............................................................................60

1. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................60
2. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:........................................60
3. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................61 Deputy M.R. Higgins (Chairman, Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):........................61

7. Draft Sea Fisheries (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment No. 5) (Jersey) Regulations (P.57/2009)..................................................................61

7.1 The Connétable of St. Clement (Assistant Minister for Economic Development - rapporteur):.............................................................................62

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................62
2. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................62

3. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................62
4. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................62
5. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................62 Deputy M.R. Higgins (Chairman, Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):........................63

8. Television Licences for Persons Over 75 (P.100/2009)..................................64

8.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................64

1. Senator T.J. Le Main: ..................................................................68
2. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter:...................................................69

3. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................69
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................69

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................70 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................71

PUBLIC BUSINESS - resumption..............................................................71 Television Licences for Persons Over 75 (P.100/2009) (continued)..........................71

5. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................71
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................71
7. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................72
8. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................73
9. Deputy A.K.F. Green:..................................................................73
10. Senator S. Syvret:....................................................................74
11. The Connétable of St. Mary : ........................................................75
12. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:..............................................................76
13. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................77
14. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................77
15. Deputy A. Breckon: .................................................................78
16. Deputy J.M. Maçon:.................................................................78
17. The Deputy of St. Mary:.............................................................78
18. Senator P.F. Routier:................................................................80
19. Deputy I.J. Gorst :....................................................................80
20. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................81

9. Draft Social Security (Television Licence Benefit) (Jersey) Regulations 200- (P.64/2009)...............................................................................86

1. Deputy I.J. Gorst (The Minister for Social Security):...................................86 Deputy G.P. Southern (Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel):................86
2. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................87
3. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................87

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................87
2. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................87

4. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................88
5. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................88

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................88
2. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................88

10. Draft Residential Tenancy (Jersey) Law 200- (P.74/2009) .............................88

1. Deputy S. Power (Assistant Minister for Housing - rapporteur): ........................89

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................92
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................93
3. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................93
4. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................94
5. Senator T.J. Le Main:................................................................95
6. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................97
7. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................98
8. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................99 Deputy S.Pitman:...........................................................................100 Mr. W.J. Bailhache Q.C., H.M. Attorney General:..........................................100
9. The Deputy of St. Mary:............................................................100

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...................................................................101 The Attorney General:......................................................................101

10. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:........................................................101 Deputy T.M.Pitman:........................................................................102 The Attorney General:......................................................................102
11. Deputy S.Power:.................................................................103 Senator A. Breckon (Chairman, Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel): ......107

2. Deputy S.Power:......................................................................108
3. Deputy S.Power:......................................................................109

11. Draft Residential Tenancy (Jersey) Law 200- (P.74/2009): amendment..............109

11.1 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:.............................................................109

1. Deputy S.Power:..................................................................110
2. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:.........................................................110
3. Senator T.J. Le Main:..............................................................110
4. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ..........................................................111

12. Draft Residential Tenancy (Jersey) Law 200- (P.74/2009) - resumption .............112

12.1 Deputy S. Power (Assistant Minister for Housing - rapporteur): ......................113 Senator A.J.H. Maclean:....................................................................114

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................114

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

QUESTIONS

1. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY S.S.P.A. POWER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING CHANGES TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE (YOUNG OFFENDERS) (JERSEY) LAW 1994:

Question

In light of the recent court case involving six local girls under the age of fifteen who viciously attacked two visiting French girls, hospitalising them, could the Minister advise whether he intends pursuing changes to the current situation whereby under the Criminal Justice (Young Offenders) (Jersey) Law 1994, the Courts only have the power to remand a young person under fifteen and have no power to impose a custodial sentence on someone under fifteen; and would he provide up to date statistics for the period 2004 to 2008 from the States of Jersey Police, Parish Hall enquiries and the Youth Court to illustrate :

1. whether there is an increase in young offenders coming to the attention ofthe Police, Parishes or Courts?
2. whether those under the age of 15 are carrying out more offences?
3. whether the number of referrals to the Youth Court has increased?

Answer

I intend to propose an amendment to the Criminal Justice (Young Offenders) (Jersey) Law 1994, to enable the Courts to impose a custodial sentence on young people over the age of 12. However, this would, of course, be in only the most serious of cases, where all other avenues to address the young person's offending behaviour had been explored, and proved unsuccessful. The form of the sentence is still to be worked out, but will be especially designed to meet the needs of 12-14 year olds.

2. SENATOR B.E. SHENTON OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING CHANGES TO THE FUNDING OF SUCCESSFUL MAGISTRATE'S COURT PROSECUTIONS:

Question

Would H.M. Attorney General advise whether he would consider investigating the establishment of a system whereby defendants would contribute towards prosecution costs, where appropriate and taking into account ability to pay, in respect of successful Magistrate's Court prosecutions?

Answer

I agree this is a matter which could be usefully reviewed, and I will do that in consultation with the Solicitor General, the Court Service, the Minister for Treasury and Resources and the Public Accounts Committee

3. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT  AND CULTURE  REGARDING  INCREASES  IN SALARY  AND  WAGES BETWEEN THE YEARS 2007 AND 2008:

Question

Given that an increase of £2,936,438 in Salary and Wages (not including social security or pension) for Education, Sport and Culture occurred between the years 2007 and 2008, together with an increase  of  7.2  Full  Time  Equivalent  Members  of  staff,  would  the  Minister  provide  a  full breakdown and reason for these increases?

Answer

4. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING INCREASES IN SALARY AND WAGES BETWEEN THE YEARS 2007 AND 2008:

Question

Given that an increase of £5,062,293 in Salary and Wages (not including social security or pension) for Health and Social Services occurred between the years 2007 and 2008, together with a decrease of 42.57 Full Time Equivalent members of staff, would the Minister provide a full breakdown and reason for the increase in Salary and Wages?

Would the Minister also explain the reason for the increase in expenditure of £11,366,740 from 2007 to 2008, and detail what allocations or re-allocations of funds were made during that period?

Answer

The increased costs associated with Salaries and Wages between 2007 and 2008 in the published accounts are:

2007 2008 Increase/

(Decrease)

£000s  £000s £000s

Manpower – States Staff Costs 102,923  108,856 5,933

Manpower – Non States Staff Costs 947 389 (558)

103,870 109,245 5,375

The increase in manpower costs between 2007 and 2008 can be attributed to the following factors:

£000s

Increase of annual pay awards 3,204

Increase in annual increments 1,645

Increase in pension costs 725

Increase in Social Security costs 299

Decrease expenditure on Agency & locum Staff  (332)

Decrease in overtime, on call, extra duties payments etc. (166)

5,375

The decrease in Fte is associated with the restriction of recruitment in the attempt to contain costs within the approved 2008 H&SS cashlimit.

As per the published accounts total costs between 2007 and 2008 increased by £11.4m The above manpower increases account for £5.4m of that sum and the balance of £6.0m is associated with increases in non pay expenditure.

The increase costs in non pay expenditure between 2007 and 2008 in the published accounts are:

2007 2008 Increase/

(Decrease)

£000s  £000s £000s

Supplies and Services 31,097  36,215 5,118

Administrative Costs 5,000 4,641 (359)

Premises and Maintenance –

General 7,071 7,857 786

Incidental Expenses

and Charges 6 4 (2) Grants and Subsidies -

General   8,417 8,866 449 51,591  57,583 5,992

The increase in supplies and services is associated with inflationary and activity increases in drugs, prosthetics, patient appliances and other medical supplies and services. Also there is continued pressure on budgets associated with caring for the elderly in private nursing homes and sending patients to UK hospitals, childcare facilities and mental health services for specialist treatments that are not available on Island.

Important to note is that a proportion of the cost increase for elderly care placements in Jersey and for specialist treatments in the UK is due to "health tourism". Health Tourism is the phrase used in H&SS to describe those patients who travel to Jersey with the express intent of accessing the Island's high quality healthcare and specialist treatments in the UK.

The decrease in administrative costs is associated with reductions in recruitment and advertising expenditure, legal costs, charter flights, patient travel, training and staff removal expenses.

The increase in premises and maintenance costs is associated with additional inflationary rises in services and utilities across the H&SS estate.

The increase in grants and subsidies is associated with the inflationary increase provided to external service providers and additional investment in specific charitable/voluntary bodies

In terms of financial resource allocation, H&SS always requires the ability to reallocate financial resources to address expenditure pressures and emerging risks. Numerous reallocations occur every  month  to  manage  these  changing  priorities  and  risks.   These  reallocations  are  a  key component of financial management in the H&SS department and the ability to respond to service pressures.

5. DEPUTY  T.A.  VALLOIS  OF  ST. SAVIOUR  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING INCREASES IN SALARY AND WAGES BETWEEN THE YEARS 2007 AND 2008:

Question

Given that an increase of £3,279,769 in Salary and Wages (not including social security or pension) for Home Affairs occurred between the years 2007 and 2008, together with an increase of 23.23 Full Time Equivalent members of staff, would the Minister provide a full breakdown and reason for the increases?

Answer

The increase in staff costs (not including social security or pension) and increase in full time equivalent (fte) members of staff for the Home Affairs Department between 2007 and 2008 is due to three main factors, namely:

*the fte figure included in the table on page 33 of the Financial Report and Accounts 2008 was rounded to 640, the actual fte of 640.34 is shown on page 94. Increase between 2007 and 2008 is therefore 23.57.

Historical Child Abuse Enquiry (HCAE)

No funds were included in the Department's 2007 or 2008 Cash Limits for the HCAE. The States agreed to fund expenditure actually incurred and validated by the Accounting Officer in respect of the HCAE in P91/2008 which was agreed by the States in September 2008.

An amount of £1.065 million relates to additional staff costs (not including social security or pension) incurred by the States of Jersey Police.

Pay awards, increments and staff movements

Staff transfers, leavers, new recruits, incremental drift and pay awards accounted for a net increase in staff costs of £1.457 million between 2007 and 2008 (not including social security and pension).

For information, provision of £1.699 million was included in the Department's 2008 Cash Limit to fund the full year cost of the June 2007 pay award and the part year costs of the 2008 pay award (including social security and pension).

Prison – Additional Staff

The increase in staff costs and numbers in 2008 relate to the recruitment to new posts at the Prison following a full review of the Prison resources in 2007.

At its meeting on 29 November 2007 the Council of Ministers considered a report prepared by the Home Affairs Department regarding the Prison budget. The Council, having accepted evidence that the budget for H.M. Prison La Moye fell short of the resources required for the size and complexity of the task, concluded that there should be an increase in the Prison's base budget for 2008 and subsequent years.

This budget shortfall consisted of three key elements:

• Staff - Fully funding authorised establishment
• Staff - Increased staffing requirements (31 fte)
• Non staff costs

As the additional funding provided in 2008 fell short of the budget shortfall identified the Prison was not able to recruit to all the new posts in 2008 as future years funding had not been secured.

6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING NURSING VACANCIES:

Question

Will the Minister inform members of the vacancy rate in real (Full Time Equivalent) and percentage terms of nursing staff without including Health Care Assistants (HCA's)?

In order to set the figures given in her answer on 30th June 2009 in context, will the Minister further give the historic vacancy rate over the past decade for the registered nurse (with and without HCA) workforce?

Will she give a breakdown of the proportions of those with and without local housing qualifications and J category status over the same period?

Will she inform members whether those leaving the service have a leaving interview and, if so, what information she has regarding the reasons given by those leaving the service?

Will she further comment on the potential impact of the pay freeze on recruitment and retention in the light of pay rises under negotiation in Guernsey and the UK?

Will the Minister advise whether the figure of 5% for the vacancy rate for nursing is seen by hospital management team as a critical point which puts some service provision under threat, and if not, advise whether the current rate of 5.39% is acceptable, and detail at what level services would be under threat?

Answer

As at Monday 6th July, the full time equivalent Registered Nurse (RN) vacancy rate was 31.24 FTE (4.7% of the RN workforce). Data relating to vacancy rates over the last ten years has not been kept as a matter of record. However, such data is now collected in a routine and systematic way and has been so since March 2008. As the Deputy will be aware from his long standing interest in this matter, Workforce Planning - particularly within the sphere of nursing and midwifery - is crucial to the sustainability of my Department and this data helps those nurse managers who are tasked with ensuring that recruitment and retention within the two professions is managed effectively.

The proportion of those registered nurses with J' category status is 35% of the workforce (which is 235 members of staff). As to locally qualified nurses, the figure is 65% (which is 425 members of staff). Again, data has not been kept historically on these matters and therefore I am unable to assist the Deputy by retrospective analysis over the last ten years.

I can confirm that all members of staff who leave their posts are offered an exit interview'. Whilst some nurses and midwives decline such interviews, the majority do take advantage of this opportunity. The task is performed by nurse managers, but if a nurse or midwife would rather speak to a Human Resources professional (perhaps because there has been some element of job dissatisfaction which has prompted a resignation) then this is provided. Within this context, the reasons why nurses and midwives leave are recorded as follows:

• Cost of living too high.
• Improved career opportunities/remuneration elsewhere.
• To move closer to family.
• To achieve improved work – life balance as a result of increased local workloads.

Whilst there is no evidence to support the contention that the pay freeze' here in Jersey will have an impact on recruitment and retention, intuitively one must accept that it is likely to have a negative impact, particularly as neither Guernsey nor the United Kingdom are as yet seeking to impose a pay freeze' in the short term. The key group of nurses and midwives who may be particularly sensitive to such variations in pay are those who are currently employed in the UK, but who are contemplating employment in Jersey. Further, whilst it is well understood and accepted that nurses and midwives enter their professions prompted by their desire to care for others, material considerations are obviously of significance. As such, nurses and midwives may feel their worth has been devalued if their pay and conditions are seen to fall behind those of their professions in other jurisdictions.

The States Employment Board, senior HR managers and representatives of my Department – including the Director of Nursing and Governance – are currently seeking to agree the vacancy rate which would be seen to represent a critical point where the risk to the provision of nursing and midwifery services on the Island becomes high. It is in no-one's interest for Jersey to be denuded of these professions and it is important therefore, that a trigger point' is agreed which would prompt a review of terms and conditions if the position became high risk in this way. It is self evident that a high vacancy factor places greater pressure on the delivery of service than a lower vacancy factor. Whilst the Department deploys agency and bank nurses – and allows staff to work overtime – these are not optimal solutions. The ideal circumstance is to be fully staffed by nurses and midwives who work their set hours – and are not fatigued, nor distracted, by having to work challenging and onerous shifts to make up for absent colleagues.

Whilst the majority of nurses work in set locations to reflect their specialist skills (i.e. theatre nurses only working in theatres, orthopaedic nurses working in orthopaedics), it is possible to deploy other nurses to fill vacancies in ward and departmental rotas, depending upon where the greatest pressures are at any one time. Thus, it is not possible to be very specific and precise as to the impact of any vacancy factor at any one time. But having said this, areas of considerable pressure created by the vacancy factor continue to be acute medical services, intensive care services, old age psychiatry services and accident and emergency services.

7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE SUCCESS OF INCOME SUPPORT AS AN IN WORK' BENEFIT:

Question

Will the Minister inform members whether he has data to show an increase in the rate of those finding work through his department's services whilst on benefit after the first 18 months of Income Support, and if not, when will he be in a position to inform members of the success or otherwise of Income Support as a genuine in work' benefit?

Answer

Income Support is a single benefit designed to provide consistent financial support to local families whether or not they have employment. As at 30th June 2009, there were 2,881 adults aged 18 to 64 in employment and receiving income support.

As has been explained in a number of written questions answered over the last few months, my Department is actively working with the Statistics Unit to introduce improved reporting on individuals actively seeking work, which will include identifying those who find work through the department's services whilst on benefit.

8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE JOB GROUPS COMPARISONS WITHIN THECOMMENTSON THE PROPOSITIONENTITLED "STATES EMPLOYEES: PAY INCREASE FOR 2009/2010 (p.68/2009 - AMENDMENT":

Question

Will the Chief Minister advise the Assembly the name of the Company who produced the work which was included as a table within the comments on the proposition entitled States Employees: pay increase for 2009/2010 (P.68/2009) – amendment' and state exactly where they found police, fire and prison officers in the private sector in Jersey?

Will he further release details of the full paper, including detailed analysis of the job group comparisons, and any background papers used by this Company and, if not, why not?

Will he further state whether he has full confidence in the validity of these figures, if the current study is being conducted by the same organisation and whether he would be prepared to have the organisation and its work subjected to scrutiny by the Economic Affairs or Corporate Services scrutiny panels?

Answer

The Company which carried out the 2006 States of Jersey pay survey was the Hay Group, which is based in London.

Clearly Hay were not comparing salaries in the Island based on a "job match" basis as there are not Police, Fire and Prison services in the private sector. As the table clearly states, comparisons were based on a "job size" or job weight basis (using job evaluation).

I am happy to release to all States Members copies of the full Hay reports in 2006 and this is available from my department on request.

Hay are recognised as being very experienced in the conduct of pay surveys throughout the private and public sectors in the UK and I have no reason to question the validity of these figures. The current survey, which is restricted to local comparisons only, is being conducted by Hassell Blampied Associates. I will be pleased to give all States Members a commentary on the key findings of the report when it is received. It is for the Corporate Affairs Scrutiny Panel to decide, on receipt of that commentary, what further action it might wish to take, but Scrutiny would normally review policy in the light of evidence, rather than the evidence itself.

9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE ECONOMIC ADVISER'S ANALYSIS OF THE SIZE OF THE DOWNTURN IN JERSEY'S ECONOMY:

Question

Will the Minister release to members details of the Economic Advisor's quantative and qualitative analysis of the size of the downturn in Jersey's economy referred to in his response to a question on 30th June 2009?

Answer

The paper titled "Forecasting whole economy GVA" by the Economics Unit will be circulated to members at this meeting.

10. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE CONTINGENCY PLANS FOR STAFFING AT THE HOSPITAL SHOULD THERE BE A MAJOR SWINE FLU OUTBREAK:

Question

Given that Swine flu has arrived on Island, can members be advise what contingency plans, if any, are in place to ensure that the Hospital continues to be fully staffed should the following situations arise–

1. if medical staff (doctors and nurses) fall ill with Swine flu
2. if members of staff's families are taken ill
3. if members of staff havetostayat home to look after their families because schools are

shut?

Answer

The General Hospital has been developing contingency plans to deal with Swine flu since the World Health Organisation (WHO) identified this viral strain in Mexico in April of this year. The contingency plans are based upon the existing Major Incident Plan, the purpose of which is to deal with an extraordinary incident such as a major disaster (For example, a chemical or biological terrorist attack, a major multi-casualty collision, a multiple life threatening incident at the airport). (All general hospitals in the British Isles have such plans and are required to update them from time to time to reflect new lessons learnt as incidents occur across the world). The contingency plans' which the Deputy refers to is known within my Department as the Swine flu operational plan' – and a clinical and managerial group chaired by Dr Ivan Muscat, Consultant Microbiologist, has been responsible for developing it.

The Deputy asks what plans exist to ensure the hospital continues to be fully staffed'. It is not a realistic planning assumption to believe that in some way hospital staff will be immune from the onset of infection across the Island. An estimate has been made about the number of staff who will be absent from work during the onset of the predicted pattern of infection. The planning assumption is that an adult will be on sick leave for up to seven days.

It is important to ensure that the vast majority of Islanders who become infected are treated and cared for in their own homes or in the community. This will enable the General Hospital to deal with its normal' emergency care service and also manage those complex cases whose admissions are precipitated by Swine flu. A significant effort is being placed in creating, resourcing and funding the community response'. The reason for this is that whilst Swine flu is demonstrably more transmittable than seasonal flu, it is – with some exceptions – a milder form of flu which can be managed by patients in the community with support.

Whilst the community response' is the best means of protecting the General Hospital's ability to perform its emergency function, a further action will be deployed if necessary which is to cancel all elective surgery (i.e. planned, routine surgery) and to reallocate the staffing to the hospital's general and emergency medical services.

This is the best means of managing the predicted absentee rate of doctors and nurses, if either they become ill themselves or are required to remain at home as parents or as carers.

It is clearly a concern to all parents of school aged children if a school – or schools – have to be closed. The General Hospital caring staff, who are also parents, will wish to act as all other parents would in such circumstances. It must be said that Jersey has been successful to date in containing outbreaks in schools. This success is in no small measure due to the excellent working relationship that has been created between my Department and the Education, Sport and Culture Department in tackling this matter together with great professionalism and resolve. A senior member of the Education, Sport and Culture Department sits as a full member of the Medical Officer of Health's Incident Team meetings which take place every other working day. As yet, I cannot speak definitively upon the matter of school closures on health grounds and this matter is clearly of as much political interest to the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture as it is to me. Our two Departments are considering how best we deal with the potential for schools to be the generating source of infection, but it is too early for us to make any public statement on this matter.

Finally, Islanders should take comfort from the work that is underway, both within my Department and across the States to mitigate the impact of Swine flu. The prediction is that my Department will come under heavy and sustained pressure for a significant period of time. This will require additional resources – and it will require an extraordinary effort from all of my staff, all relevant staff in other States Departments, the undoubted contributions of the Parishes and the charitable sector. I am sure that this effort will be there for us all to see when it is needed.

11. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE COST OF PROVIDING BLACKBERRIES AND MOBILE TELEPHONES TO MINISTERS AND ASSISTANT MINISTERS:

Question

Which Ministers and Assistant Ministers have Blackberries or mobile phones paid for by the States?

Answer

The following Ministers and Assistant Ministers currently have the use of States owned Blackberries and/or mobile phones:

Chief Minister and Assistant Ministers.

Minister for Economic Development and an Assistant Minister. Minister for Education, Sport and Culture.

Minister for Health and Social Services and Assistant Ministers.

Minister for Housing.

Minister for Planning and Environment and Assistant Minister.

Minister for Social Security and Assistant Minister.

Minister for Transport and Technical Services.

Minister for Treasury and Resources and Assistant Ministers.

Note: where an Assistant Minister serves two departments, only one device is allocated.

Question

What is the expenditure covered by the States for these communications for the last 3 years and from what budget does it come?

Answer

The charges covered by the States for all Ministers and Assistant Ministers since November 2006 is £11,784.95. They are paid from Information Services and the appropriate department budgets

Question

What were the costs of these phones per individual for the last 6 months? Answer

The costs for Ministers and Assistant Ministers that have States provided communications over the last six months are as follows:

Question

What were the total costs of their communications over the last 12 months? Answer

The total cost of the communications used by Ministers / Assistant Ministers for the last 12 months is £ 4,649.03.

Question

With which local telephone companies are the accounts held and which company is contracted by the States to provide services?

Answer

The local telephone company that holds the States Blackberry contract which provides the service to the Ministers / Assistant Ministers is Sure Mobile (Cable and Wireless) and a mobile phone is provided by Jersey Telecom.

Question

In view of the fact that Article 44 of the States of Jersey Law 2005 requires that all States members receive equal remuneration and allowances, how does the Chief Minister reconcile this added support for these members?

Answer

Ministers and Assistant Ministers do not receive additional remuneration or allowances over and above that of any other States Member. Ministers and Assistant Ministers do, however, have access to departmental officer and administration support in order that they may effectively carry out their Ministerial functions and responsibilities.

In the same way, Scrutiny Panel Members also have access to officer and administration support in order that they may perform their Scrutiny functions and responsibilities. With regards to Ministers and Assistant Ministers being provided with communications for Ministerial business purposes, this is not prohibited by Article 44 of the States of Jersey Law 2005.

12. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE EFFECTIVE TAX RATE FOR ALL 1(1)(K) RESIDENTS CURRENTLY LIVING IN THE ISLAND:

Question

Will the Minister provide a detailed breakdown of the effective tax rate for all 1(1)Ks currently living in the island for the past 5 years?

Answer

It is unclear exactly what the Deputy is asking for. However, it is assumed that the question seeks the effective tax rate for all 1(1)k's, in other words the average rate for all concerned, for each of the last 5 years of assessment.

The reason this is significant is, as the Deputy will appreciate, the only information that can be released into the public domain by the Comptroller of Income Tax is the average effective tax rate for all 1(1)k's. The Comptroller cannot and will not release individual data in respect of individual taxpayers into the public domain for any taxpayer, including 1(1)k's. To do so would be a breach of the Comptroller's Royal Court Oath of Office.

The Comptroller and his staff assess each individual's liability to tax on a case by case basis. This applies to all taxpayers, including each 1(1)k and the companies and trusts in which they have an interest. Taking the information from each case file, it would be possible to calculate the average effective rate for all 1(1)k's. However this would entail a substantial amount of work and resource cost at the Income Tax Office, as well as diverting Income Tax staff resources from their very busy workload. Suffice to say, this information if required, will take some time to collect.

What the Comptroller has said, on the basis of his experience, is that it is reasonable to expect that the average effective tax rate for all 1(1)k's, in respect of their personal, corporate and trust income liable to Jersey income tax, will be in the range of between 15% and 20%.

13. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE NUMBER OF EMERGENCY SERVICES VISITS TO ST. SAVIOUR'SHOSPITAL AND THE OTHER MENTAL HEALTH ESTABLISHMENTS OVER THE PAST 5 YEARS:

Question

Will the Minister inform members on how many occasions, if any in the past 5 years the police and/or other emergency services have been called out to St Saviour's hospital and the other mental health establishments as a result of staff being unable to restrain and deal with violent patients and will she provide these figures with a breakdown per year as well as a general total?'

Answer

I wish it to be noted that the vast majority of people with mental health problems are not violent and are much more likely to be victims of assault rather than the perpetrators of it. All professional staff working with clients in crisis are skilled and trained  in diffusing potentially challenging situations. All serious incidents involving violence are the subject of a review with the aim of learning lessons as to how future incidents can be more effectively managed. Such staff receive regular training in this crucial aspect of health care.

The Mental Health Directorate within my Department does not keep records on the number of times the States of Jersey Police are called to either St Saviour's Hospital or to other locations where clients reside. Whilst it may be important to the States of Jersey Police as to the number of times they are called to St Saviour's to intervene, to the Mental Health Service this is not an important indicator – as every incident is treated entirely on its merits with the focus being on the least intrusive, the least threatening, but the most therapeutic way of resolving such incidents.

14. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE SELECTION OF A CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS TO CONDUCT THE COMMITTEE OF INQUIRY INTO THE REG'S SKIPS LIMITED PLANNING APPLICATION:

Question

Given that on 13th May 2009, the States approved P.50/2009 entitled Committee of Inquiry: Reg's Skips Ltd. – Planning applications, as amended, would the Chief Minister advise what progress, if any, has been made in selecting a Chairman and members of the Committee?

Answer

Officers within my department are currently taking the necessary steps to appoint suitable candidates to undertake this inquiry. It is my intention that we will return to the States with a proposition to appoint the Chairman and members of the Committee of Inquiry which it is anticipated will be lodged during the summer recess for debate in September.

15. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING THE USE OF LAPTOPS IN THE CHAMBER:

Question

Given that Blackberries and some mobile telephones are capable of sending and receiving e-mails, and are commonly used by some members in the Chamber, does the Committee have any plans to allow laptops to be used in the Chamber to give all members an equal opportunity to communicate with each other in debates and to research issues over the internet as can be done with these devices?

Answer

The Privileges and Procedures Committee as previously constituted considered the possible use of laptops in the States Chamber at its meeting on 4th May 2007, following a request from Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire.

The Committee considered Standing Order 99(1) which states -

99 Behaviour of members during meeting

(1) Before entering the Chamber, a member of the States must switch off any mobile telephone and every other electronic device he or she has with him or her that would be likely to disturb the proceedings of the States.

The Committee felt that given the size of members' desks in the Chamber there was not enough space to accommodate laptops without causing disruption and that the use of laptops by large numbers of members would almost certainly disturb debates. The Committee also felt that members would be tempted to answer e-mails and undertake other work on their computers rather than concentrate on the proceedings.

The matter was considered again at the Committee's meeting of 23rd July 2008,  following a request from Senator F.E. Cohen. Once again, the Committee noted that Standing Orders neither prevented nor permitted the use of electronic equipment, but that Standing Order 99(1) would prevent the use of any electronic device likely to disturb proceedings of the States. Investigations were undertaken to find out what work would be required to enable the use of laptops in the Chamber.

Property Holdings have since confirmed that, in order to enable the use of laptop computers in the States Chamber, Members' desks might need to be adapted for computer use. Health and safety standards would need to be considered as well as the constraints arising from the fact that the Chamber is part of a listed building.

The Privileges and Procedures Committee will consider this matter at its next meeting, with regard to the discussions of the Committee as previously constituted. The Committee will examine the situation in other jurisdictions, such as the United Kingdom House of Commons, where members are permitted to use small hand-held communications devices, and those with recently constructed assemblies, such as the Welsh Assembly, where electronic facilities are in-built. The Committee will then determine whether the use of laptops should be permitted within the Chamber, before considering whether further work should be carried out in conjunction with Property Holdings in relation to the suitability of the workspace available.

2. Oral Questions

1. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding Operation Blast:

With reference to Operation Blast, will the Minister advise Members what motivated the States Police to create the files and cease the practice last November, and who was responsible? Was there any political involvement, who gave consent for the searches to be carried out on States Members, and what internal disciplinary investigations have taken place to date?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs):

This is a very similar question to one which I answered 2 weeks ago. As I indicated then, the answers to these questions are now subject to investigation and I am not going to prejudge the outcome of the investigation. That also applies to disciplinary investigations as well as other matters.

The Deputy of St. Martin :

I was not aware of any answers given 2 weeks ago. Can I ask the Minister, were the answers given to my particular question, because the question was never formally asked?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

The answer to that is I had a very, very similarly-worded question I think from Deputy Le Claire, but I do not blame the Deputy of St. Martin for his second question.

The Deputy of St. Martin :

Could I just press the Minister? I do believe there are some questions in my question here that could have been given an answer to and I just ask the Minister that maybe he can give us some indication how soon some of these answers can be given?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I am hopeful that the investigation I am talking about will be concluded by the end of September. I cannot be sure of that date, but I am hopeful of that.

The Deputy of St. Martin :

Can I press the Minister again? Has any Member of the States Police yet been suspended for this particular action?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

The answer to that question is no, but suspension is under consideration for one particular individual.

1. Senator S. Syvret:

Could the Minister for Home Affairs inform the Assembly whether the investigation that has taken place will examine whether in fact the Operation Blast files and the whole exercise was completely lawful?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

The investigation will consider as to whether criminal offences were committed in relation to Operation Blast.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

Will he also confirm that his investigation will also examine the motivation underlying the need for such files?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

That is correct.

3. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier :

Could the Minister also clarify whether he is aware of any substance to rumours circulating that the files are much wider and apply to people who are politically active, but not necessarily yet elected?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

As I indicated, when I answered questions on making the initial statement in the House, one of the first questions that I asked was: "Is there anything more?" In other words, were there files in relation to other people? No information has returned to me to the effect that there are. That is a matter which the current acting senior officers will continue to monitor.

4. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

Could the Minister advise us whether the Data Protection Commissioner has commenced investigations into the Operation Blast? Is he aware of any progress on that?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I am not aware of any involvement of the Data Protection Commissioner in relation to this. If criminal offences have been committed then they probably would be in the area of data protection.

5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier :

I wonder if the Minister could tell us whether or not his investigation will consider the implication of the invasion of privacy, as this does extend from the outset to all States Members, Senators, Constables and all Deputies? It is yet to be established whether or not that constituted or comprised of family members or associates, et cetera. As there are issues in the U.K. (United Kingdom) relating to invasion of privacy right now, I wonder whether or not he can comment if the investigation is going to look at whether or not that has stretched into that area in Jersey?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

The investigation will look into 2 areas: firstly, in relation to possible disciplinary matters concerning various individuals, and secondly, in relation to whether or not there may have been criminal offences committed. It will not, at this stage, go beyond that, but of course once the facts are known, other considerations can be looked at.

6. Deputy P.J. Rondel of St. John :

Within the current files - and yet I have to go myself to police headquarters and inquire, but hopefully the Minister might be able to answer the question - on States Members, within a file of any particular Member, are the antecedence files attached to it? If so, what action is the Minister taking to make sure that those files also are disclosed to the States Member, or the persons nominated on that file?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

Just to clarify, because people have used different terminology in relation to this - particularly the press, which is very confusing - my understanding is strictly speaking there are 2 files, but those files contain sections on each person who is a States Member. My understanding is that each of those sections contains a full criminal record check, which the Deputy of St. John has of course referred to as antecedence. The existence of those files, of course, and the record check, is part of what the investigation will look at. I may have lost the final part of the question.

The Deputy of St. John :

If I may come back? Yes, within the antecedents files, historically, in my time within policing, it would also encompass known associates and members of one's family, in part. Could you answer that?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I do not know the answer to that because I know that in relation to certain individuals there is very limited information there, but in relation to others, much more extensive information. I am not sure of this, but I do not think that we retain the information about members of family and contacts was there.

7. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

Given that everybody who seems to be asked about the existence of the files or involvement with the files has denied any knowledge of that, what tools does the Minister have at his disposal to get to the bottom of what happened and who was involved?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

That is going into speculation as to how the investigators would proceed. If I were them I would start with the people in Special Branch who told the Acting Chief Officer about it and I would also look at who had requested the criminal checks, because normally there is a name on that, and I would work my way backwards from there. It is entirely for professional police officers at Wiltshire to decide how best to proceed.

8. The Deputy of St. Martin :

I am rather disappointed that the Minister feels that he cannot give a report to the States until the end of September. This has been known since November what was going on and I really am disappointed. But can I have an assurance from the Minister that although he did say that he would have a report by the end of September, can I ask that it be ready by the beginning of September? I would have thought 6 months would be an ample time - even 8 months would be an ample time. It is of even more significance because on 22nd September we are due to debate Deputy Higgins' report and proposition on the matter, and I think it would be very helpful if we had as much information before we have that debate. Can I have an assurance that it will be ready by the first sitting in September, which will be 8th September, or whatever the first sitting is?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

The answer which I gave relates to Operation Blast, in terms of timescale; it did not relate to other matters being looked at by the Wiltshire Police and I will answer that question shortly with the question from the Connétable of St. Helier. I cannot control the speed at which investigation is taking place. The procedure is this: that I ask the Chief Executive of the Council of Ministers for a report. He has in fact delegated that for good reasons to his Deputy Chief Minister. He then decides how to proceed. He, in turn, has asked the Wiltshire Police, so I am not in control of the investigative procedure, as far as disciplinary matters are concerned.

2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the funding crisis surrounding the Jersey Heritage Trust:

What action, if any, is the Minister taking to deal with the funding crisis surrounding the Jersey Heritage Trust?

Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):

Since being elected as Minister for Education, Sport and Culture, my officers and I have had regular meetings with representatives of the Jersey Heritage Trust in order to ascertain the extent of the problem and to consider a number of actions which might be taken to ameliorate the situation. As a result of these discussions, I have taken the following actions: at all times I have made it clear to the Trust that while I might wish to provide additional funding, my department faces other pressures, which equally need to be considered before any commitments are made. As part of the carry forward process, I gained agreement from the Council of Ministers that an additional £200,000 would be provided to the Trust so that they were able to meet immediate funding requirements for 2009, allowing for a longer-term solution to be found for 2010 and beyond. During the Strategic and Business Planning process, I have highlighted the issues faced by the Trust to the Council of Ministers and the likely need for additional funds in order that services can continue to be provided by Jersey Heritage, both now and in the future. I have met with representatives of Jersey Archive Centre and, more recently, the National Trust and Société Jersiaise in order to better appreciate their concerns they have in relation to the overall funding issues identified by Jersey Heritage. With the help from the Minister for Economic Development, a review on the day-to-day management of Jersey Heritage Trust has been instigated, although the terms of reference have yet to be finalised. Also, I have agreed with the Comptroller and Auditor General that it would be helpful if a review was carried out on the financial management of the Trust and other governance issues, including the suitability or otherwise of the present partnership arrangements between Jersey Heritage and my department. In addition, I have approached both the Minister for Treasury and Resources and the Minister for Economic Development asking that they review the current rental agreement in place between the Jersey Heritage Trust and the Jersey Harbours for their Maritime Museum and Occupation Tapestry museums. On a more practical level, I have encouraged the Trust representatives to consider ways in which income generated from our heritage sites could be improved and suggested that discussions should take place with the Tourism Department and, indeed, even our local bus company, Connex. Finally, I have encouraged

the Trust to explore, with the Treasury Department, the possibility of accessing funds from the fiscal stimulus package if it could be shown that timely improvements on certain facilities would both increase visitor numbers and generate additional income both now and in the years to come. I hope this answers the Deputy 's question.

The Bailiff :

Minister, just before the Deputy asks the question, I appreciate this is a complex subject, but answers are meant to be concise and I think that was quite a lengthy answer. I would not necessarily allow such a long one again.

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Could the Minister confirm that the emergency grant will indeed allow the Trust to keep its facilities open until the end of the year? Secondly, has he put in place mechanisms so that no irrevocable step is taken and no facility is closed down and therefore not able to be reopened?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

It is my belief that the emergency funding was sufficient to maintain the services provided by Jersey Heritage Trust for the remainder of this year. With regards to what actions Jersey Heritage Trust may choose to take regarding the closure or otherwise of some of the facilities, I have indicated my view. However, I cannot control the actions that Jersey Heritage Trust take as they manage their budget.

2. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade :

The Minister will be aware that I questioned the acquisition of 2 ferries by the Jersey Heritage Trust last year; indeed, myself and Deputy Lewis expressed some concerns; 2 of them for £500,000 and then last year, £50,000 spent on them. Is the Minister aware that neither of these 2 ferries is operating at the moment and have not done so for a week?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

No, I am not.

3. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier :

The Minister began his answer with the words: "Since becoming Minister." Would he confirm that the funding problems for the Heritage Trust have been ongoing for several years now and that his predecessor was in regular communication with the Trust, therefore these are not new matters on his desk or his officers?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I am aware that discussions of a financial nature have been going on with my department for a number of years.

4. The Deputy of St. John :

I sincerely hope, on the question before last, that the Minister was not misleading the House because earlier this morning I was present when Deputy Power, in fact, informed the Minister that the craft that tend Elizabeth Castle had not been operating for the last week. Will he confirm that that is correct?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I can confirm that Deputy Power spoke to me this morning and suggested that the DUKWS had not been in operation for a week. I have had no discussion or notice from Jersey Heritage that that is indeed the case.

5. Deputy M. Tadier :

I am glad to see the Minister has taken to his new role like a duck to water. [Members: Oh!] The Minister, I believe, is being characteristically vague in his responses, speaking of words that explore the possibility of gaining money from the fiscal stimulus package and that we will review the rent that is charged for the Maritime Museum, all of which is non-committal. Will the Minister give a guarantee that by the end of the summer none of the museums in Jersey, and in particular the Hamptonne and the Maritime Museum, will not be forced to close? Will the Minister give that guarantee?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

No, I cannot give that guarantee.

6. Deputy M. Tadier :

A supplementary. Would the Minister also then acknowledge that he is of the opinion that the Heritage have been very prodigal with their money and wasteful and the Minister does not wish to give them any more money because he believes that they have wasted it already?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

The Deputy clearly has not listened to my first comment. I have a genuine desire to support Jersey Heritage; however, I need - and others need - confidence that they are managing their finances in a prudent manner, hence the reason for the reviews that I have instigated.

7. The Deputy of St. John :

The previous speaker spoke of Hamptonne. Will the Minister confirm that Hamptonne, although run by the Heritage Trust, in fact is owned by another charitable trust, and I think it is the National Trust, and if this is the case, what are the National Trust doing to help the Heritage Trust out of this particular scenario?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I can confirm that the National Trust and the Société Jersiaise collectively have a management agreement with Jersey Heritage with regards to Hamptonne. Following a meeting with the National Trust and Société Jersiaise, it is clear that further discussion needs to happen between themselves and the Jersey Heritage Trust to ensure that Hamptonne remains open to the public.

8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Would the Minister acknowledge that a situation where he holds the purse strings and therefore the, in a sense, future of the Trust in his hands and yet has no power over how the Trust will use any money he comes up with, is not a terribly good situation?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

As I said, we have a partnership agreement in place that is supposed to inform the department of how funds are being spent, but equally put a requirement on the Trust to manage those funds in an appropriate manner. This is one of the areas that, as I say, I have asked the Comptroller and Auditor General to look at.

9. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Just a supplementary. Could the Minister outline what powers of intervention there are under the partnership agreement?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

We require the Jersey Heritage Trust to identify resources that are needed, both now and in the future, and in exchange we expect good dialogue happens between both my department and themselves.

The Bailiff :

Very well. Question 3 falls away in the absence of Deputy De Sousa. Deputy G.P. Southern :

On a matter of process, in the normal course of events where someone is not present to ask their question, would an answer be circulated anyway through the email system, or not?

The Bailiff :

That is a matter for the Minister. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I am desperately keen to answer this question. I am disappointed that Deputy De Sousa obviously cannot be here this morning. I will circulate the answer.

3. Deputy S. Power of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the inappropriate feeding of seagulls by householders in high density housing areas:

I preface this question by saying that I have had correspondence with that department for 2 years on this subject. Can the Minister outline what action, if any, the Health and Social Services Department is able to take to stop the inappropriate feeding of seagulls by some householders in high-density housing areas that cause annoyance to other householders or neighbours?

Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

The Health and Social Services Department does not have any legal power to deal with the feeding of wild birds, including seagulls. Furthermore, I am not aware of any other States department having a power conferred in law that would address this particular problem. The Statutory Nuisances (Jersey) Law 1999, administered on my behalf by the Health Protection Service, provides a legal remedy only in cases where the animal, bird, insect, reptile or fish is kept, and thereafter that the manner in which they are kept is prejudicial to health or a nuisance. Where complaints have arisen of disturbance due to activity, it has been customary for my officers to seek an informal solution that best fits with the needs of both parties; however, the difficulty of problems of this nature are that each side often becomes entrenched with little prospect of a solution.

1. Deputy S. Power:

If I may be allowed? I thank the Minister for her comments; however, it is not a solution that is satisfactory. Can I suggest to the Minister that 4 district councils in the U.K. - Brighton and Hove, East Devon, Bradford and Dorset and Dumfries - have found out that there is an increase in seagull populations in their areas, and these are typical of all U.K. town councils, and they have introduced a culling campaign to collect the eggs. Would the Minister not consider that?

The Deputy of Trinity :

As I said, I think the best is to try and educate people and see if we can come to an amicable agreement with both parties, but also to educate the general public that feeding of birds really should be carefully considered. I know that the Ornithologist Society and the Société has been very proactive in this case.

2. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier :

Is the Minister aware that one of the problems, certainly in the urban area of St. Helier , is that most of these birds are breeding on roofs of properties that are let to many residents and therefore no one takes any individual care? Also, the feeding habits is mostly from discarded waste from the domestic household bin that is causing the problems and this needs to have a multi-department approach in order to solve it. Thank you. Does the Minister agree?

The Deputy of Trinity :

Yes, I do, and as I said, education is a good way forward. Most people fail to bag waste appropriately and therefore birds with the skills of herring gulls can pounce and take free advantage of a free lunch. Jersey, we are so different from other places. I understand that herring gulls can now live in the middle of France because they have that free lunch.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

It is very simple. Would the Minister be in favour of a ban on feeding seagulls? The Deputy of Trinity :

I think, in some ways, feeding birds is .. I know a lot of people do it, but it is finding the appropriate places so that these things do not happen, because I can understand that it becomes a great nuisance to neighbours.

Deputy M. Tadier :

Just to clarify, was that a yes or a no?

The Deputy of Trinity :

It was neither. I would need some more information.

4. Deputy S. Power:

The reason I ask this question is that some of my constituents are being driven to distraction by sleep deprivation and these gulls dive bombing and ripping open black bags. Can the Minister make a simple statement to the public and urge them to not feed seagulls?

The Deputy of Trinity :

I know that has been done many times and I have .. I know they have protection. We have worked very hard with the Deputy and with other parishioners with this specific issue. I have offered to go and see the relevant parties to see if we can come to sort of informed way forward.

4. Deputy A.E. Jeune of St. Brelade of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding providing appropriate training to match job vacancies in the Island:

Given that many of those completing courses this year are experiencing difficulties in finding suitable positions in which to fulfil their ambitions for which they have studied and qualified, does the Minister consider it appropriate to increase the number of places available for study at Highlands College and what procedures, if any, are in place to ensure that the training given is suitable to the vacancy situations in the Island?

The Deputy of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):

I will try to be more brief. Yes, it is appropriate to increase the numbers of places available at Highlands College to meet increased demand due to economic recession. However, other initiatives are also being pursued. A youth training initiative, advance to work for young people unable to gain employment, an extended apprenticeship scheme to provide more places in more diverse occupations, a graduate work experience scheme to be established if local graduates are unable to secure employment later in the year, and a careers service strengthening scheme to enable the service to meet increased client need and to provide resources for short-term retraining opportunities for adults who may need to consider changing career.

The Bailiff :

Deputy , do you wish to ask a follow-up? You do not have to.

Deputy A.E. Jeune :

I thank the Minister for his answer. I will come back again another time, thanks.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is the Minister aware of any permanent, long-term, additional resources that are being put into the area of job seeking, in particular for young people?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

At this moment in time discussions are still ongoing about what finances may or may not be required following the introduction of these initiatives. However, the funding for these initiatives are all provided within the fiscal stimulus package.

2. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier :

In recent years the construction faculty has been oversubscribed by quite a large number of applicants. Is the Minister able to tell the House how many additional places have been offered to students in the construction faculty?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I have not got the details of that. However, I have been notified that although perhaps block layers might not be required, dry liners are. I am informed that within a relatively small period of time block layers can be retrained to meet the demands of the dry lining that is currently required on the Island.

Deputy J.A. Hilton:

Would it be possible for the Minister to, by email, inform the House how many additional places have been offered in the construction faculty, please?

The Deputy of St. Ouen : Absolutely.

3. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Could the Minister just clarify for the House what numbers of apprenticeships are available at the moment and is he aware what increase is likely, through his knowledge of Education?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I cannot give absolute details at the moment because, clearly, this is a moveable feast. As individuals approach the Careers Department and the Social Security Department identifying their needs, the aim is that we will meet and provide for them. Clearly we have got a good base insofar as that through Project Trident we have a large group of employers who are already involved in working with my department to provide work experience.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Will the Minister agree to come to the House showing the way in which the numbers of apprenticeships that have been available over the past 5 years have declined and the moves, the initiatives, under special measures to compensate for the recession, that they will only restore numbers to what they should have been all the time?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I am not aware that the apprentice traineeship schemes have declined over the past 5 years. However, I will be happy to provide any information that the Deputy may want.

5. Deputy A.E. Jeune :

Given that in the answer from the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture he mentioned the economic recession, is it not also true that the economic recession is having an impact on the Project Trident positions that are available?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I am not aware of such; however, it is clear that there are employers, as I am led to believe, that are keen to be included in the apprenticeship scheme. This is borne out by a past experience, which was .. I think happened in 1997.