States Meeting Transcript - 02/11/2010

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT

TUESDAY, 2nd NOVEMBER 2010

QUESTIONS......................................................................................8

1. Written Questions........................................................................8

1. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING ELDERLKY PEOPLE IN FULL-TIME CARE: ............8
2. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE NUMBER OF ELDERLY PEOPLE IN FULL-TIME CARE WHO HAD NOT PAID SOCIAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTIONS:...........................8
3. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE HOURLY RATE CHARGED FOR LEGAL ADVICE:............9
4. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING SUCCESSION PLANNING:...........................................10
5. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT: .........................................................................................10
6. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE HAUT DE LA GARENNE INVESTIGATIONS:..............................................11
7. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE CORPORATE PROCUREMENT TEAM:..12
8. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE POTENTIAL FOR PRIVATE SECTOR SERVICE PROVISION: ...............................................................13
9. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING ECONOMIC GROWTH ESTIMATES: ............13
10. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING PRIVATE SECTOR JOB LOSS ESTIMATES:...15
11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE IMPACT OF G.S.T. ON INCOME SUPPORT CLAIMANTS: .........................................................................15
12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE DEMAND FOR SOCIAL RENTED HOUSING:.................16
13. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE IMPACT OF SPENDING CUTS ON INCOME SUPPORT:.............................................................................17
14. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE IMPACT OF C.S.R. ON INCOME BANDS:18
15. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING IMMIGRATION FEE INCREASES:...................................18
16. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE PUBLICATION OF RECENT TAXATION CONSULTATION FINDINGS:........................................................19

17. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING THE LICENSING OF BANKS IN JERSEY:........20

2. Oral Questions...........................................................................21

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the closure of shops in St. Helier:.......................................................21 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................21

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................21
2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................21
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................21
4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier:...............................................22
5. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier:......................................................22
6. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................22

7. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................23

2. Deputy P.J. Rondel of St. John of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the removal of grants to fee-paying/private schools:..........................23 Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):..............23

1. The Deputy ofSt.John:................................................................23
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................23
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier : ..................................................23
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................24
5. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................24
6. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................24

3. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the C.S.R. proposals for 2011 to 2013: ............................................................24 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):............................25

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25
3. Deputy D.J.A. Wimberley of St. Mary:.................................................25
4. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................26
5. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................26
6. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.......................................................26
7. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................27
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27

9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27

4. The Deputy of St. Mary of the Chief Minister regarding the reliance on the content of the Napier Report:..........................................................................28 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):.................................................28

1. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................28
2. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................28
3. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:.....................................................28
4. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin : ..........................................................29
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................29
6. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................29
7. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................29
8. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................30

5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding the pumping of water from ash pits:....................................................30 Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services): .........................................................................................30

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................30
2. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................31
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................31
4. Deputy A.K.F. Green of St. Helier:.....................................................31

5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................31
   6. Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the proposals to increase the rate of G.S.T:............................................................32 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):............................32

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................32
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................32
3. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................33

7. Senator J.L. Perchard of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding his attendance at the Parents for Choice group meeting at the Town Hall on 4th November 2010:...................................................................................33 The Deputy of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):....................33

1. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................33
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................34
3. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................34
4. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :........................................................34
5. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................34

8. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the use of the Statutory Nuisances (Jersey) Law 1999: .....................................35 Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.................35

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................35
2. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................35
3. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................36
4. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................36
5. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................36

9. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding double taxation on essential goods and services:........................................................36 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):............................36

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................37
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................37
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................37

10. The Deputy of St. Martin of the Chief Minister regarding the confidential e-mail he sent to the Deputy of St. Martin on 27th September 2010 under the heading Napier':......38 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):.................................................38

1. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................38
2. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................38
3. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................39

11. Deputy A.E. Jeune of St. Brelade of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding age-related policy considerations in relation to accessing treatments:........39 The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................39
12. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the comparison of G.C.S.E. grades between all non fee-paying and fee-paying secondary schools in Jersey:.......................................................................39 The Deputy of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):....................39

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................39
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................40
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier : ....................................................40
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:............................................40
5. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................40
6. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................41
7. Senator J.L. Perchard: ...............................................................41
8. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................41

13. Senator J.L. Perchard of the Chief Minister regarding the proposal to reduce the subsidy for secondary education in private/fee-paying schools: .................................41 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):.................................................42

1. Senator J.L. Perchard: ...............................................................42
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................42
3. Senator J.L. Perchard: ...............................................................42

14. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding estimates for job losses contained in Stage 2 of the C.S.R:............................................43 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):............................43

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................43
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................43
3. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................44
4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................44
5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................44
6. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................44
7. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................45

15. The Deputy of St. Martin of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the establishment of the Independent Custody Visitor Scheme: ...........................................45 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................45

2.15.1 Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................45

16. The Deputy of St. Mary of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding A.C.P.O. advice followed in the commissioning of the Napier Report: ..................................46 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................46

1. The Deputy of St. Mary:.............................................................46
2. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................47
3. The Deputy of St. Mary:.............................................................47

17. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding the works proposed for the Havre des Pas promenade:.......................47 The Connétable of St. Brelade (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):.........48

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................48
2. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:....................................................48
3. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................48
4. Deputy A.K.F. Green:...............................................................48
5. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................49
6. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................49
7. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................49
8. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................50
9. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................50

2.18 The Deputy of St. John of the Minister for Economic Development regarding a stranded vehicle in St. Aubin's Harbour:.........................................................50 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................50

1. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................50
2. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................51

3. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture...................................................................................51

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................51 The Deputy of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):....................51
2. Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary : ...................................................52
3. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................52
4. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................52

3.4.1 The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................52

5. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................53
6. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................53
7. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................53
8. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................53

3.8.1 Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................54

9. Connétable L Norman of St. Clement:..................................................54
10. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................54
11. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................54

3.11.1 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................55

4. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Health and Social Services ...........................................................................................55

1. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................55 The Deputy of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................55

1. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................55
   2. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................55
   3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................56
   4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................56
   5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................56
   6. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................57
   7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................57
   8. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................57

4.8.1 The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................58

9. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................58
10. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:..................................................58

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................58

5. The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture - statement regarding the proposed reduction in subsidies for fee-paying schools...........................................58

5.1 The Deputy of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):..............58

1. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................59
2. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................59
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................60
4. Senator B.E. Shenton:..................................................................60
5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................60
6. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................60
7. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................61
8. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................61
9. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................61

6. The Minister for Housing - statement regarding P.139/2010, Rent Control: removal of exemptions...............................................................................62

6.1 Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade (The Minister for Housing):............................62

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................62
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................63
3. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................63
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................63

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................64

7. Fiscal Policy Panel: reappointment of members (P.146/2010) .........................64

7.1 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):......................64

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................64
2. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................64
3. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................64

8. Jersey Police Complaints Authority: reappointment of member (P.147/2010) ........66

8.1 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): ...........................66

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................66
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................66
3. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................67

4. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:..............................................................67

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................68

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................68

9. Draft Community Provisions (Bovine Embryos) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.115/2010)..............................................................................68

1. Deputy R.C. Duhamel (Assistant Minister for Planning and Environment - rapporteur): .........................................................................................69

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................69
2. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................69
3. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter:...................................................70
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................70
5. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:........................................71
6. Connétable J.L.S. Gallichan of Trinity :.................................................71
7. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................71
8. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................72
9. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................72
10. Deputy K.C. Lewis : .................................................................72
11. Deputy R.C. Duhamel:..............................................................72 The Deputy of St. John (Chairman, Environment Scrutiny Panel):............................75

2. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................75

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................77
2. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................77
3. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................77
4. Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement:.......................................................77
5. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:..............................................................77
6. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................77
7. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................78

3. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................81
4. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................82

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................83
2. Deputy A.T. Dupre of St. Clement:.....................................................83
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................83
4. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................84
5. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................84
6. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................85
7. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................85

5. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................88

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................88
2. Deputy R.C. Duhamel: .................................................................88

10. Draft Health Insurance Fund (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.125/2010)..............................................................................89

10.1 Deputy I.J. Gorst (The Minister for Social Security):...................................89

1. The Deputy of Trinity : ..............................................................92
2. Deputy A.E. Jeune : ..................................................................93
3. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier : .......................................................95
4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................96
5. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................97
6. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................99
7. Deputy G.P. Southern : .............................................................101
8. Deputy J.A. Martin: ................................................................103
9. Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence : .................................................105
10. Senator T.J. Le Main: ............................................................106

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................107

[09:30]

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

QUESTIONS

1. Written Questions

1. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING ELDERLKY PEOPLE IN FULL-TIME CARE:

Question

Would the Minister advise how many elderly persons in full-time care (when the States contribute to the cost of care) are non-native or those who have not made Social Security contributions since their arrival in the Island and would she detail the various nationalities, including British subjects and indicate whether or not a reciprocal health agreement exists to cover full costs?

If no reciprocal agreement exists, would the Minister advise who meets the cost of the care (the family, States of Jersey or other) and if it is the States of Jersey, what steps, if any, have been taken to address the situation since the Minister and I discussed this matter some months ago and, if action has been taken, when was this?

Answer

There are currently 108 older people placed in full-time care by HSS services' for older people. Of these 55 were born in Jersey and 53 were born elsewhere but had been resident in Jersey for 5 years prior to them requiring long term care. We do not analyse nationality because is it not appropriate to do so, nor can we provide information about whether social security contributions have been paid. In line with the Social Security Department our eligibility criteria are not linked to the payment of social security contributions.

Long-term care funding consists of two separate elements, the long-term stay element and the nursing element. Of the 53 mentioned above 28 pay for the long-term stay element of their care, 19 have the long-term stay element funded by the Social Security Department. 6 have the long term stay element funded by Health and Social Services Department. The nursing care element for all 53 is funded by the Health and Social Services Department.

Under our existing policy the Department recognises 10 reciprocal health agreements, these however only relate to emergency or acute treatment and have no bearing on the provision of long- term care.

The Department recognises that its existing overseas patients' policy needs revision and has drafted a proposed new policy which has been considered by the Law Officers Department and will be implemented pending discussions with Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel.

The proposed new policy makes a direct link between the payment of tax and length of residency in relation to the provision of emergency and acute care and between Social Security's residency criteria in relation to long-term care.

2. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE NUMBER OF ELDERLY PEOPLE IN FULL-TIME CAREWHO HAD NOT PAID SOCIAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTIONS:

Question

Given that some months ago I raised with the Minister the cost of non-contributory persons in our care homes (a person who has not paid Jersey Social Security contributions) would he advise whether these people fall into the Social Security budget, directly or indirectly, and if they do would he explain –

1. what work has the Social Security Department undertaken to resolve this issue?
2. how many reciprocalhealth agreement payments, if any, are pending?
3. how much taxpayers' money is spent supporting these people annually?

Answer

The concept of a "non-contributory person" is not one that is used by the Social Security Department in relation to individuals in care homes. The department only supports people in residential care if they have satisfied the residency conditions for Income Support immediately prior to making an application for assistance (the principal residency condition is that of five years' continuous residence).

Assistance is means tested and the applicant must submit a full declaration of their income and assets which shows that they are unable to meet the cost of the fees themselves and have no substantial savings (the current amount of savings allowed to be retained is £13,706 for a single person).

Reciprocal health agreements do not cover funding for care home fees. Funding for residential care fees is not linked to the payment of Social Security contributions. This is a non-contributory tax funded benefit and data on care costs cannot be analysed in terms of an individual's contribution record. The Social Security Department will however be bringing forward a system in the near future for the funding of long-term care which will only be available to those with substantial residence in Jersey and accompanying Social Security contributions.

3. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE HOURLY RATE CHARGED FOR LEGAL ADVICE:

Question

Further to the answer given on 19th October 2010, can H.M. Attorney General state why a competitive tendering process is only now being explored, and will he specify the amount that is currently paid per hour to Crown Advocates and how this differs to the hourly rate (if any payment is made) paid to lawyers acting for children after the decision in Re B [2010] JRC 150?

Answer

There was insufficient time to undertake a competitive tendering exercise prior to allocating this work to external lawyers as stated in the answer given on the 19th October 2010. Those cases in which external lawyers were instructed needed urgent attention to safeguard the interests of vulnerable children.

A letter was sent out to all Jersey Advocates on the 15th October 2010 inviting them to participate in a procurement exercise with a view to setting up a panel of advocates who may from time to time be asked to advise and represent the Minister for Health and Social Services in connection with applications under the Children (Jersey) Law 2002.

Those external lawyers acting for the Minister are currently paid at the Crown advocate rates which applied at the time they were appointed to those cases. Those rates are:

Crown advocates£267 per hour Qualified assistants £177 per hour Unqualified assistants £149 per hour

The Judicial Greffe is responsible for the payment of lawyers acting for children. The following information has been obtained from the Judicial Greffe.

Prior to the decision of In Re B, the hourly rate paid for a salaried advocate, barrister or solicitor was £265 or more and the hourly rate for an advocate who was a partner was £336. In addition, a deduction of 10% of the time claimed was made prior to payment of the fee note.

Since In Re B, the following rates apply to lawyers acting for children- Partner £179

Salaried advocate barrister or solicitor £145

Unqualified assistants £120

4. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING SUCCESSION PLANNING:

Question

Would the Chief Minister publish the most recent report received by the States Employment Board regarding Succession Planning in conformity with recommendation 8 of R.14/2008 (Succession Planning in the States of Jersey)?

Answer

The SEB has not received any recent reports on Succession Planning but it did discuss this matter with the Chair of the Appointments Commission earlier this year and requested that the Human Resources Director undertake work on this topic and bring back a report to a future meeting.

Part of the SEB initiative for succession planning involved the development of staff through a Modern Manager programme, which was under way prior to the presentation of R.14/2008. I can say that of the first 100 people that went through the Modern Manager Programme, 20 have achieved promotion and 5 others have been put into acting positions. So, clearly that is having some benefit. Also the number of (j) category employees has gone down by around 100 over the last two years.

5. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT: Question

Further to her written answer of 12th October 2010, would the Minister specify the changes to management structure, including reductions, that have occurred in the General Hospital subsequent to the appointment of an Interim Director?

What changes, if any, have occurred to the Personnel management structure both numerically and in terms of services offered?

Answer

The new management structure for the General Hospital is still dependent on a number of staffing changes being confirmed and approvals under the recent States voluntary redundancy scheme. Until these changes have been confirmed, and the individuals informed of the outcome, I do not believe it is appropriate to specify the detail of these changes.

As previously advised a management improvement plan will be presented in December.

A review of the Human Resources function in Health & Social Services has been undertaken and the resulting recommendations are being discussed with the Chief Ministers Department as it is responsible for the provision of this service.

6. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE HAUT DE LA GARENNE INVESTIGATIONS:

Question

Would the Chief Minister confirm whether the ACPO team provided reports from January 2008 on the progress of their mentoring and guidance of the Haut de la Garenne inquiry to the Chief Executive to the Council of Ministers and the then Chief Minister, and if so, would the Chief Minister advise Members of the dates of those meetings and undertake to publish the minutes?

Answer

The ACPO team did not provide any reports to either the then Chief Minister or the Chief Executive to the Council of Ministers.

There was one informal meeting on 7th March 2008 when the Home Affairs Minister invited the Chief Minister and Chief Executive to meet two ACPO officers who were undertaking the review of the Police investigation. The ACPO team provided a brief verbal presentation of their findings. No papers were presented, nor notes taken.

The only written information that was presented to the Chief Minister and Chief Executive about the ACPO review was contained in a letter dated 12th June from the Home Affairs Minister to the Chief Minister. It contained the following information:

"I am not an expert in criminal investigation and therefore have sought advice from the Association of Chief Police Officers for England and Wales (ACPO) who have appointed an independent group of experts to audit the investigation against recommended best practice and to prepare reports with comments and recommendations. I have already studied two reports and a third is being studied by my Assistant Minister. On the basis of the reports I have seen so far I am satisfied that best practice is being followed and that recommendations are being acted upon."

7. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE CORPORATE PROCUREMENT TEAM: Question

Will the Minister advise Members of the size, cost and qualifications of the corporate procurement team and identify their savings targets and performance in achieving these targets to date?

Will  he  further publish  the areas  and products/services where  these  savings  have  been  made identifying the quantum of savings in each case?

Answer

Table A below details the number of staff within the Corporate Procurement Department, the cost per annum and the number of staff who hold the professional procurement qualification. The qualification identified is the MCIPS (Member of the Chartered Institute of Purchasing and Supply.

Table B Details the savings made per annum from 2005. The corporate procurement team achieved their target savings of £1.9million. (Accumulative total from 2005 - 2009). For 2010 actual savings of £573K have been achieved. A further £500K is forecast.

1Total cost including Pension and Soc Sec contributions 2Actual savings for quarter three have yet to be verified

8. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND  RESOURCES  REGARDING  THE  POTENTIAL  FOR  PRIVATE SECTOR SERVICE PROVISION:

Question

Will the Minister publish his assessment of where and how the private sector in Jersey will take up the slack caused by the public sector job and service cuts he and the Council of Ministers have announced setting out the timescale he expects these new jobs and services to fill the gap created?

Answer

A significant proportion of the proposed CSR cost savings will be achieved without reductions in jobs, through increasing efficiencies and changing how services are delivered. For example, an independent review of staff terms and conditions has identified potential savings of between £35m and £42m, and the Council of Ministers has set an initial target of £14m to be delivered by 2013, including reform of the public sector pension scheme. Staff and unions will have the opportunity over the coming months to shape which of these savings options are implemented.

Inevitably however, there will be some job losses where roles are no longer needed. The latest estimates suggest there could be a reduction of 69 posts in 2011 and a further 177 in 2012/13. This is equivalent to less than 0.4% of total employment.

In reality, and in contrast to the UK, the impact of the CSR savings proposals on private sector providers and contractors is likely to be minimal; therefore the effect on jobs will be limited to the direct reduction in public sector employment. It is hoped that as many as possible of the reductions will be achieved through voluntary redundancies. Some will go into early retirement, while Skills Jersey will be working to ensure that the right training opportunities are available for those wishing to find alternative employment in the private sector. I am confident that implementing the CSR over 3 years will minimise the impact on the economy and ensure that the individuals affected have the greatest opportunity to gain other employment if they wish.

The economy is expected to emerge from the downturn which should mean that there are more employment  opportunities  in  the  private  sector.  Furthermore  the  Council  of  Ministers  is maximizing opportunities to boost economic growth.

Adding to the additional good work carried out by Economic Development a significant increase in emphasis is being made to grow and diversify financial services internationally – a policy endorsed by the States, in addition to developing a new intellectual property / e-commerce sector.

These policies will create new jobs over the period of the CSR programme.

9. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING ECONOMIC GROWTH ESTIMATES:

Question

Will the Minister advise Members of his estimates for economic growth in Jersey over the next 12 to 18 months stating the reasons for his forecast and identifying which sectors of the economy he expects to perform well/poorly over this period and give the reasons why he expects these sectors to perform in this way.

Answer

As members would expect, the Ministerial team at Economic Development consults with a wide body of people on the state of the economy and the direction we believe the economy will move in during the coming months and years.

The world economy is only just emerging from the worst economic downturn since the 1930's. The latest forecasts from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) are that the world economy will grow by 4.8% in 2010 and 4.2% in 2011 although the IMF points out that recovery is likely to be "slow and sluggish." Central banks and governments across the world have so far prevented a replay of the 1930s Great Depression through the massive policy response they put in place. The larger economies have returned to growth this year but recovery remains fragile as recent estimates of GDP from the UK have proved, not least because once the policy stimulus is withdrawn it is unclear how strong the underlying economies will be. A double dip' global recession is still a risk although it is not a central scenario for most economic forecasters.

Although the decline in global activity may have abated, the fallout remains. That is, the significant deterioration in government finances, the sharp rise in public debt and widespread unemployment in the leading economies across the globe.

From a Jersey perspective it would be imprudent to rely on a quick global rebound to repair the damage. We must plan for the fallout of what is now being called the great recession' to be long lasting.

The September Business Tendency Survey published by the States Statistics Unit shows there is scope for cautious optimism with finance firms reporting a further rise in business activity and they are more optimistic about future business. However, profitability still remains under significant pressure.

Gross Value Added (GVA) fell by 6% in 2009, with the financial services sector recording the largest real-term fall at 12%. The only sectors to report positive growth in 2009 were agriculture and transport and communications. Overall retail sales volumes have begun to stabilise after significant falls since 2008. However, non-food volumes are still well below their level in 2008 and fell in the second quarter of 2010. The September Business Tendency Survey shows that in the non- finance sector as a whole business activity is still falling, profitability remains under pressure, employment is being reduced and firms are still not optimistic about future business.

Whilst neither EDD nor the States Economics Unit estimates growth on a sector by sector basis, latest data from the Business Tendency Survey and anecdotal information suggest that the finance sector is increasingly optimistic about its prospects over the next few months and the rest of the economy is showing some signs of stabilisation, if not quite optimism.

The most recent forecasts for the whole Jersey economy point to a further decline in GVA in 2010. Next year should see a weak recovery with growth of about 1% predicted, and further moderate growth in 2012 of 2%. The FPP will publish their latest assessment of economic conditions and the outlook for States finances in November and members will have their latest advice ahead of the Budget debate.

10. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING PRIVATE SECTOR JOB LOSS ESTIMATES: Question

Will the Minister publish the research and estimates he has for the number of private sector job losses he expects to occur as a result of the proposals to cut public spending and raise taxes over the next 12 to 18 months?

Answer

Very few if any private sector job losses are expected to occur as a result of the proposals to cut public spending and raise taxes.

With specific regard to reductions in public expenditure, there is little reason to expect any significant private sector job losses as a consequence. Firstly, the reductions in public expenditure represent a relatively small proportion of economic activity. Secondly, in comparison to jurisdictions like the UK, the private sector in Jersey is much less dependent on public expenditure. In fact, it is likely that, as resources are freed up from the public sector, that private sector employment may increase.

With regards to tax increases, the proposals put forward in the draft Budget are the result of extensive research and consultation on the options to raise additional revenue. The effects of different taxes on employment and competitiveness have been a key factor in the considerations of the various options. As a consequence, we can be confident that the proposals to increase taxes will have a minimal impact on private sector jobs. For example there is a wealth of international evidence recommending broad-based consumption taxes such as GST as least harmful to growth and employment.

Further, both the reductions in expenditure and increases in taxes are being phased in gradually over the next three years. During this period the economy is expected to have returned to growth, and the Council of Ministers has committed to doing all it can to ensure that the Island maximises its potential for sustainable economic growth and opportunities for employment.

11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE IMPACT OF G.S.T. ON INCOME SUPPORT CLAIMANTS:

Question

Will the Minister inform members of the total package he has proposed for low-income households to compensate for the impact of the 2% increase to GST and state how it will be affected by the impact of the £1.8 million cuts to benefits already agreed and the proposed £4 million cuts in Income Support to be made by Social Security?

Would the Minister outline how such proposals help to build a more equal society? Answer

For households on low incomes I have proposed to:

• compensate all households receiving income support
• maintain an adequate GST bonus for those on low incomes but not receiving income support.

I have also proposed that income tax exemption thresholds increase in line with average earnings growth, which will give most help to those on lower incomes who pay tax.

As stated in an answer to a written question asked of the Minister for Social Security by Deputy Southern –

"Income Support provides comprehensive financial support to working age families both in and out of work. The single benefit ensures that individuals affected by the loss of a job or restricted working hours can be compensated  for their reduced earning capacity by an increase in their Income Support benefit."

The Income Support rates were adjusted in line with the introduction of the 3% rate of GST in early May 2008. The proposal to increase the rate to 5% in June 2011 includes a similar increase in the Income Support budget and the budget for the "GST bonus". This will ensure that lower income families that do not pay income tax will be protected from the full impact of the increase in GST."

The spending cuts of £4 million in Income Support are to be achieved by the end of 2013 and it is anticipated that Jersey will have returned to economic growth by that time and the need to support working age families will have decreased as they find jobs in a more buoyant labour market.

The Social Security department will be providing additional support to jobseekers in the next few months to ensure that they are well prepared to take up employment as soon as possible.

The increased protection in respect of the GST increase will contribute to the Strategic Plan aim of creating a more equal society by helping to ensure that the additional tax measures are balanced by additional support for those on lower incomes.

Planning to balance the Island's finances by 2013 will help towards creating an equal and fair society by securing economic growth, jobs and the ability to fund public services in the long term.

12. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE DEMAND FOR SOCIAL RENTED HOUSING:

Question

Given the increased demand for social housing in times of recession and following the Whitehead Report's criticisms of the rental waiting list, what action, if any, does the Minister propose to take to meet the demand for social rental housing by 2014?

Will these actions be limited by the requirement to cut the Department's budget by approximately £1.4 million by 2013 and by targets for housing property sales of £48 million over the 3 year period 2011 to 2013?

Answer

Professor Whitehead's report was not critical of the rental waiting list. What the Professor highlighted was that the access criteria for social housing or at least for the States owned social housing stock is extremely constrained and focuses on the most disadvantaged 20% of our society. However, she highlighted that were eligibility criteria widened to include in particular, childless couples under 50 who are presently largely excluded, the waiting list would probably be much higher.

In the Policy Statement I issued in August this year I said that we need more affordable housing and to deliver it we would need to consider new policy initiatives; to ensure that zoned land is developed in a timely manner and that existing States owned land, such as the d'Hautrée site, is used to provide affordable housing. I also said that private development capital could be borrowed and repaid from rents. This use of development capital could remove the burden of the capital cost from the tax payer.

I am not in a position where I alone can deliver the new affordable homes which I believe we need. New homes, particularly new affordable homes require land to be zoned for residential purposes. That is the responsibility of the Planning Minister who is provided with updates on the level of our waiting and transfer lists on a monthly basis. I will always work closely with the Planning Minister and give every assistance I can to try and ensure sufficient sites are available to deliver sufficient homes for Island residents.

As the Deputy has suggested in his second question our revenue budget has been cut by £1.4m or 10% by 2013. This will require that certain activity be reprioritised or performed differently in order to achieve the savings required. Cuts in revenue will not adversely affect the development of

new affordable housing. However, that activity will be impacted by the necessary reprioritisation of the States Capital Programme. In addition, the current economic climate has seen Bank's limiting their lending and this has made sales to tenants more challenging. Taken together these factors will create a difficult environment in which to develop new affordable homes and refurbish its existing units. These are indeed difficult times. However, I am not one for standing still and my officers have identified opportunities for certain projects, particularly those which deliver new homes, to be funded from borrowing and are already in discussion with the Treasury in respect of the most appropriate way to facilitate this to ensure that the impact of the economic downturn and spending cuts is kept to a minimum.

13. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE IMPACT OF SPENDING CUTS ON INCOME SUPPORT:

Question

Will the Minister explain to members how he will protect vulnerable recipients of Income Support and other benefits from the impact of the recession and the imposition of a 2% increase in GST whilst the Department's spending is cut by a further £4 million as part of the CSR?

In what way will his proposals contribute to the Strategic Plan aim of creating a more equal society?

Answer

Income Support provides comprehensive financial support to working age families both in and out of work. The single benefit ensures that individuals affected by the recession by the loss of a job or restricted working hours can be compensated for their reduced earning capacity by an increase in their Income Support benefit.

Members will remember that Income Support rates were adjusted in line with the introduction of the 3% rate of GST in early May 2008 and the GST Bonus was introduced in July 2008. The Treasury proposal to increase the rate to 5% in June 2011 includes a similar increase in the Income Support budget and the budget for the GST bonus. This will ensure that lower income families that do not pay income tax will be protected from the full impact of the increase in GST.

The spending cuts of £4 million are to be achieved by the end of 2013 and it is anticipated that Jersey will be recovering from the recession by that time and the need to support working age families will have decreased as they find jobs in a more buoyant labour market. The department will be providing additional support to jobseekers in the next few months to ensure that they are well prepared to take up employment as soon as possible.

The increased protection in respect of the raised GST will contribute to the Strategic Plan aim of creating a more equal society by ensuring that the imposition of extra taxes on the population as a whole is balanced by additional support for lower income families. The department will continue working with jobseekers to encourage individuals to become financially independent. Great care will be taken to ensure that additional funding is allocated so as to ensure that incentives to work within the Income Support system are maintained.

14. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE IMPACT OF C.S.R. ON INCOME BANDS: Question

Does the Minister accept that cuts to public services have a disproportionate impact on households on the lowest incomes, and what research, if any, has the Minister undertaken on the combined impact of Stages 1 and 2 of the CSR savings proposals across income bands, and if none, why not?

Answer

It is difficult to estimate the impact of public expenditure cuts on households at different income levels. This is the case both in general and in particular as the CSR savings will be achieved, as far as possible, through efficiencies and providing services differently without significant impact on frontline services. The IFS (Institute for Fiscal Studies) have stated with reference to analysis of UK spending cuts:

"Given the difficulties, conceptual and empirical, involved in the valuation of the benefits of public services, producing a single set of numbers that represent the distributional impact of the entire package of cuts to spending on public services necessarily involves making a series of contentious assumptions which may crucially impact the outcome; an alternative and no less plausible set of assumptions could yield quite a different outcome."

Nonetheless, by ensuring that we close the forecast deficits in a way that minimises the impact on the economy and facilitates economic growth this will benefit Islanders at all income levels including those on low incomes.

15. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING IMMIGRATION FEE INCREASES:

Question

Will the Minister advise whether recent amendments to fees for visas and permissions to remain, are equitable and, given the differing nature of individuals' circumstances (both financially and in terms of the frequency these renewals are required) will he undertake to review the current system to ensure it is fair?

Will he also consider means-testing? Answer

Immigration permission granted in the Island is common to immigration permission granted in the United Kingdom and the other Crown Dependencies. Fees for certain in-country immigration permissions for foreign, non EEA, nationals were introduced in Jersey on 1st May 2010 in line with similar fees charged by both the United Kingdom and the Isle of Man. When I introduced immigration fees I considered, for reasons of equity and fairness, that the administration of the charge should be identical in terms of allowed exemptions as those applicable in the United Kingdom and the Isle of Man.  

I have recently reviewed the current system and whilst I have not increased the fees in line with current UK charges I found no reason to introduce a different exemption regime in Jersey to those applicable in the United Kingdom and the Isle of Man.

Since the introduction of local Immigration fees 158 foreign nationals and their dependants have applied to have their immigration permission varied or extended, only two of these applicants have claimed that they were unable to pay the fees due to their financial circumstances. I have exceptionally allowed for the fees to be paid in agreed instalments by one of these applicants and I am currently in discussion with my Customs and Immigration Service to consider a mutually acceptable method of payment for the second applicant.

Enforcement action to restrict employment or remove a person from Jersey as a result of non- payment of a fee would only be taken as a last resort and after close consideration of human rights and other considerations of a particular case.

I review all Immigration matters for which I am responsible on a regular basis, taking into account the Immigration regimes applicable in the United Kingdom and the other Crown Dependencies. Should these other jurisdictions introduce a system of means-testing for exemptions I will of course consider a similar system for Jersey.

Visas for foreign nationals are not issued locally and the fees for this immigration permission are set by Her Majesty's Government.

16. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE PUBLICATION OF RECENT TAXATION CONSULTATION FINDINGS:

Question

Will the Minister undertake to make available to members a full summary of the submissions received during the recent consultation on business and personal taxation (with personal details omitted where relevant) as soon as possible ahead of the budget debate? Will he also agree to make the same information available to the general public?

Answer

A full summary of the responses received for the Fiscal Strategy Review consultation on personal tax was published on 15 September 2010 and can be found here:

http://www.gov.je/Government/Pages/StatesReports.aspx?ReportID=452 This is available to the public.

The author of the report, Involve, is a charity that specialises in helping organisations to consult and engage with people and groups. Involve read all the consultation responses and synthesised and summarised the key trends and views. Almost 1,000 individuals (including those representing interest groups) took part in events or responded by letter, email or in the online survey.

A summary of the responses received for the Business Tax Review will be published ahead of the budget debate. 46 responses have been received and are in the process of being analysed.

17. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING THE LICENSING OF BANKS IN JERSEY:

Question

Further to the Minister's confirmation that Jersey will only licence banks in Jersey from the top 500 in the world, what action, if any, is the Minister taking through the Jersey Financial Services Commission to remove the licence from the bank where a foreign national laundered $43.9 million, when local residents have to produce passports, utility bills and go through other formalities to open an account or deposit £10,000 in cash?

Would the Minister provide details of the number of breaches either reported to or uncovered by the Jersey Financial Services Commission over last 5 years from amongst all of the banks based in the Island and outline what action, if any, was taken in each case by the regulator?

Answer

The Jersey Financial Services Commission's policy is to license banks who are both in the top 500 in the world and of systemic importance in their home jurisdiction. Jersey has had no bank failures during the recent financial crisis. Jersey was also recognised by the IMF in its recent report as having world leading regulation and controls to prevent money laundering and terrorist financing. Having such controls are essential to meet international standards.

The specific case related to the deputy's question occurred some considerable time ago, in the 1990s. The Island's AML and CFT regime has been further strengthened since then and is amongst the best in the world. As a result of the subsequent investigation, six institutions were identified as having inadequate controls and action was taken to ensure that deficiencies were remediated.

The Commission is highly active in supervising the Island's finance industry for compliance with regulatory requirements, including AML and CFT obligations. The Commission conducts extensive on-site examinations in the latter respect and publishes feedback for industry.

The Commission does not compile data specifically relating to regulatory breaches by banks. To review every relevant file in the timeframe available for this answer would have required the diversion of considerable resources. The regulatory standards in Jersey are appropriately high as well as proportionate and adequately applied by the Commission. This view is supported by the contents of the IMF report.

2. Oral Questions

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the closure of shops in St. Helier :

Further to yet more shops closing down in Jersey, will the Minister be encouraging landlords to reduce rents on retail units until the economy recovers and if not, why not?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):

The market will set rental values. It is not a matter for the Minister for Economic Development but I can tell the Deputy that in the current economic climate, landlords are being forced to negotiate on lease renewals. In a number of cases, rents are being reduced. It is a highly competitive marketplace driven by an increase in supply over demand.

[09:45]

The current retail environment is challenging where in St. Helier , 5.9 per cent of shops are currently vacant, an unusual number, although this does compare well with the U.K. (United Kingdom) average of vacant retail premises, which is currently 10 per cent. But there are some encouraging signs. For example, in 2009, 20 new shops opened in St. Helier while this year to date, 32 have opened and, indeed, I attended last night the opening of Liberty Wharf, which was a fine example of some retail space down at the Waterfront. These new businesses had a choice of premises and were therefore able to negotiate some attractive terms.

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

Since the  Jersey Evening Post ran the story regarding my question to the Minister, 3 further retailers have called me to say that they will shortly be going en désastre. Was the Minister aware of this?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Sadly, I am aware of a number of businesses that have not survived so far in the current very difficult economic climate, and it is very disappointing to see businesses that are not surviving. That is one of the reasons why we are investing as much as we are, for example, in enterprise and business development, £2 million a year, to try and support local businesses, to help them with the difficulties of raising finance and trading in difficult market conditions. I am pleased, as I have said a moment ago, to see there have been some new establishments of shops which are taking advantage of more competitive rates.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

Will the Minister estimate the impact on the retail sector of the proposed rise in G.S.T. (Goods and Services Tax) from 3 per cent to 5 per cent?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I am not sure what sort of estimate the Deputy is after. We can see a number of new shops have opened. That is good. What we are going to continue to do is to work hard with businesses in all sectors, including retail, to ensure that they are successful, that they make tax returns and, importantly, they not only maintain employment but they also create opportunities for jobs within the economy.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Supplementary, Sir, if I may. Does the Minister accept that a rise in G.S.T. will make trading problems heavier for local businesses than for foreign businesses?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

What I would accept - and businesses will share this view, I am sure - any increase in taxation is never welcomed by a business. Nevertheless, businesses will adapt and they will overcome over the passage of time, and I am sure that we will have a successful and thriving economy in due course. However, there is one area that we do need to bear down on and we need to look very carefully at, and that is the increase in red tape and bureaucracy that does affect, in particular, small businesses. It is a disproportionate effect on 80 per cent of small businesses who employ 5 or less people in the Island. That is an area that my department is about to look at very closely.

4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier :

Would the Minister agree with me that now, as never before, the role of the Town Centre Manager has become critical to ensuring the vibrancy of St. Helier's retail heart? Would he join with me in thanking the ratepayers of St. Helier for funding that salary entirely [Laughter] [Approbation] now that Economic Development is no longer contributing to what was before a shared expense?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

The Constable does a wonderful job in ensuring that the town of St. Helier is vibrant and successful. Indeed, the placement of the Town Centre Manager, which was a joint initiative between the Constable of St. Helier and Economic Development, has proven to be successful. It has, I may say, proven that in terms of getting the initiative up and running, the seed funding from Economic Development was imperative. Now, of course, the Constable is very kindly continuing the initiative [Laughter] and without doubt, he is proving that he is able to fund it and he has also confirmed the fact that it is a very successful initiative and will continue to be so. I believe the Town Centre Manager does a wonderful job and is supported by retailers in the Island.

The Deputy Bailiff :

We are going to go back to normal Question Time; Deputy Trevor Pitman.

5. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier :

I am sure it will be the city of St. Helier one day. Following on from Deputy Southern 's question, is the Minister aware that another 2 locally owned businesses in the town, who are about to go online, have told me confidentially that they definitely will if we are to have 5 per cent G.S.T.? So there will no longer be a shop front for people to visit; it will just be online.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

The development of e-commerce is very important. A number of local businesses who have found it difficult to compete in the confines of Jersey are looking to go online. They are developing their businesses outside of Jersey. They are realising  that we have a worldwide  marketplace that inimitable businesses in Jersey can benefit from. That will help drive growth, drive taxes and generate employment locally as well. The world is the oyster of local businesses, and I think that is something that we should encourage, and we do very much so through enterprise and business development and elsewhere.

6. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:

Could the Minister confirm that in order to help local retailers when G.S.T. goes up to 5 per cent in June 2011, the de minimis figure will be reduced to a figure, I believe, of £240?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

That is a matter for the Minister for Treasury and Resources. I do not believe that there is an intention to make any adjustments at this particular point but, as I say, it is a matter for the Minister for Treasury and Resources to consider. We will always work with businesses in order to ensure that they are as successful as possible and can deal with the challenges that they face in the current economic climate.

7. Senator P.F. Routier:

In recognition that some in St. Helier have been able to achieve a reduced rental, would the Minister speak to the Constables to see if they would be prepared to match the reduction in the rates which are paid by the businesses?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

If my Assistant Minister would like to attend such a meeting with me, I am more than happy to have a discussion with the Constables. [Laughter]

2. Deputy P.J. Rondel of St. John of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the removal of grants to fee-paying/private schools:

Following the recent report, would the Minister clarify whether his department has plans to remove in full the grants to fee-paying private schools at any time in the future, or whether further cuts beyond those already announced will not be pursued if a mutually satisfactory agreement can be reached in the current discussions?

Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):

There are no plans to further reduce the grants to fee-paying schools outside of the proposals currently being explored with all fee-paying schools, and the governing bodies have already been made aware of this. My department is working closely with all schools to achieve a mutually satisfactory agreement and, once the discussions are completed, I will be bringing a proposition to the States so Members are able to consider this matter with all the facts in front of them.

1. The Deputy of St. John :

Will the Minister please meet with Mr. Le Blancq from Parents for Choice, and will he reconsider being at the presentation for States Members later this week and if not, why not?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I have already been asked that question in a different oral question. Am I required to answer that now?

The Deputy Bailiff :

It is a supplementary question. The Deputy of St. Ouen :

Fine, Sir. On 2 separate occasions, I have invited Mr. Le Blancq, the spokesman for Parents for Choice, to attend my department to discuss his proposal with my officers and myself. It is quite appropriate and right that any particular strategic option should be considered and I plan in the New Year to include and develop the educational strategies within a Green Paper. Regarding the attendance of a meeting, I do not believe that it is useful or helpful at this time for me to attend such a meeting until I am aware and fully understand the proposals put in front of me.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Will the Minister consider extending the period of the changes to the funding of fee-paying schools from his current schedule to something more like 5 years?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

Absolutely. I am very mindful of the fact that initial discussions with the schools involved have indicated that the timescale is extremely tight and, as such, I am proposing to have further discussions with all the school governors tomorrow evening.

3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier :

May I ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture, who has been taking most of this on the chin, whether or not he has been supported in his moves that he has been proposing by the Council of Ministers and what effect, if any, has the Council of Ministers had upon these proposals?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

Both the Council of Ministers and, indeed, the States have had an effect on these proposals and others that I am being required to bring forward, because Members will recognise that both the Council of Ministers and the States are requiring myself and other departments to reduce government expenditure to ensure that we maintain any tax increases to a minimum.

4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

May I please ask a supplementary to that or get a better answer if possible. I would like to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture to reflect on the fact that I am particularly referring to these proposals rather than the overall.

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

Yes, these proposals have been discussed with the Council of Ministers. They are proposals. They need to be explored further and I have had the full support of the Council of Ministers, as I have been engaging with the schools. I am keeping in touch obviously regularly with the Council of Ministers and discussions continue on this matter.

5. Senator J.L. Perchard:

The recommendations in the report from the U.K. consultants about school fees were to reduce subsidies in the short term to fee-paying schools by 50 per cent, but also to consider 100 per cent removal and the longer term of subsidies. Is it not the case that the Minister's real agenda is to move the Island's education system to a U.K.-type model of state schools funded by the taxpayer with completely unsupported private schools, which would almost certainly bring about the closure of at least one, maybe 2, of our fee-paying schools?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

Not at all; I value the contribution made by the fee-paying schools and respect the right for parents to choose the form of education they wish to provide for their children. Furthermore, it is important that we recognise that the appropriate amount of support is provided to the fee-paying schools to provide the broad education that is on offer on the Island and, as such, there is no intention, and I repeat no intention, to remove all support from fee-paying schools.

6. The Deputy of St. John :

Since the Minister is entrenched in his views, does he believe he can get out of the hole that he has put himself in and keep his seat or will he keep on digging?

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

I do not believe that I am digging a hole. I believe that I am undertaking a particular process in considering a number of proposals to reduce the expenditure of my department. As such, I need to continue and follow the process and, as I said before, I will report back to this Assembly once that process has been completed and I can provide the information that both States Members and parents require.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern oftheMinister for Treasury and Resources regarding the C.S.R. proposals for 2011 to 2013:

Is the Minister satisfied that the C.S.R. (Comprehensive Spending Review) proposals for 2011 to 2013 are balanced and fair and, if so, would he explain why he holds this view?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

I believe the package of both the C.S.R. and F.S.R. (Fundamental Spending Review) is both balanced and fair. The 2011 C.S.R. savings approved by this Assembly equate to 2 per cent of budgets and are, in the main, sensible and prudent efficiencies at a level which any organisation should be actively undertaking every year. The 2012 and 2013 C.S.R. savings are detailed proposals and some of these will need further assessment and evaluation, which will be undertaken before they are submitted for approval by this Assembly in the Business Plan next year. The package is balanced as it comprises savings of £65 million against the F.S.R. tax package of £45 million, both of which are staggered over 3 years. It is fair on the community because both businesses and individuals are contributing. In addition, while not all services are unaffected, the majority are protected. The whole package is designed to protect services that are valued and important to Islanders. So the C.S.R. proposals put forward show that it is possible to achieve the level of savings required and, before approval in any subsequent Business Plan, each will be challenged to ensure that they are the best way of saving taxpayers' money.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

I will go to the F.S.R. first if I may. Does he agree with the Chief Minister that the tax changes he proposes are, in fact, progressive rather than regressive as he suggests or, at the very best, proportional?

[10:00]

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

The element of the tax package includes G.S.T. and the 2 per cent supplement on incomes above the social security cap. Taken together, I think that they justify the position that the package itself is progressive in terms of its effect.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Will the Minister study definitions of the word "progressive"? You cannot get a progressive package out of an element which is regressive and an element which is simply less than proportional. They cannot be described as progressive. That is a twisting of the English language that is beyond belief. Does the Minister not agree?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

The Minister does not agree. The fact is that the proposal is put forward to change the current arrangements where currently there are no social security levies raised on incomes above £44,000. That is changing the situation therefore the more you earn, the more you will pay which is different from the current situation and, as far as G.S.T. is concerned, the Deputy and I will continue to disagree on the impact of G.S.T. I will argue with information from the I.F.S. (Institute for Fiscal Studies) in the U.K. that G.S.T., in the same way that V.A.T. (Value Added Tax) is, is generally proportional on incomes.

3. Deputy D.J.A. Wimberley of St. Mary :

Returning to the question which was about C.S.R. The Minister in his opening answer talked about sensible and prudent efficiencies and claimed that the 2 per cent cuts that we have already seen were sensible and prudent and, by implication, that where we are going is also going to be sensible and prudent. Can the Minister explain how removing support for the key post of Intelligence Analyst to stop drugs coming into the Island at Customs and how withdrawing school visits to Durrell can be described as sensible and prudent?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

Those individual questions need to be asked of the individual Ministers that have put forward proposals. The Treasury has been co-ordinating an overall plan in order to achieve the objective of cutting 10 per cent off targets. Now, I am advised, and the Council of Ministers has been through many of the individual proposals, that where there are post reductions, they can be dealt with by efficiencies, by new working practices within the organisations. That is certainly the case for all of the proposals that have been brought forward by Home Affairs, as I am advised, and in relation to the visiting programme for Durrell, there are going to be some key difficult decisions to be made. At the margin, there are going to be higher priorities for public money and Durrell clearly falls within that.

4. The Deputy of St. Mary :

The Minister is trying to shuffle-off responsibility. Where the 10 per cent cuts came from, where the 2 per cent cuts came from is from the Minister's desk and now he is saying: "Oh, it is up to the individual Ministers to cut this and cut that." I am sorry, can the Minister accept some responsibility for these cuts that do so much damage and that is only 2 per cent, we have yet to see the full impact of the 10 per cent?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I do not think I am ever going to convince the Deputy that it is possible to make cuts in terms of public expenditure. I take full responsibility for setting out a programme designed to share the problem of dealing with £100 million deficit. The deficit reduction programme consists of partly cutting expenditure, partly increasing taxes and not going down the slippery slope of borrowing money or eating into our savings which bequeaths the subsequent generations' problems. The Deputy does not want to face up to these issues. I do and I take full responsibility for that.

5. Senator J.L. Perchard:

The question was about balanced and fair C.S.R. proposals. Even the U.K. Tribal consultants said that there were real opportunities at the Education Department to save money but the immediate pressure to save money required them they did not use the words "slash and burn". I will use the words "slash and burn" in the department to harvest easy revenues from easy targets. Will the Minister accept that sometimes it may be better to take longer over these cuts and not necessarily go for the easy targets?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I have some sympathy with Senator Perchard. I think we have achieved a great deal over the last 9 to 10 months. We have started to change the culture where there was not a belief or an acceptance that you can reduce States expenditure. We were on a trajectory of year-on-year, as the Comptroller and Auditor General said, increases in States spending. We have carried out the second part of the comprehensive spending review. We have published the initial conclusions of that. The States are not being asked to approve cash limits in the budget. They are being asked to approve an overall envelope of States spending. There is much work to be done on individual savings proposals between now and when we lodge the Business Plan next year and yes, there are going to be some departments. If the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture cannot deliver his private school grant reduction within the period that he has been asked to do, then the first issue is he is going to be asked to find alternative ways of delivering his savings target. That work will be ongoing over the next few months, and I am not going to criticise any Ministerial colleagues. They have been doing a difficult job well and have we got it all right? No. Will we get to the stage where we get everything right? Absolutely, by Business Plan time next year.

6. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

Does the Minister accept that the Social Security proposals, while they may be less regressive than the current situation, can by no means be called progressive in the sense that higher earners will still pay a lesser percentage of social security contributions than lower earners under the current threshold?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : It is what it is.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Minister, one moment, please. I am sorry, Deputy . I am going to rule that out of order. I did allow wrongly I think, Deputy Southern to put in a supplementary question. It is about C.S.R. not about raising revenue. Senator Le Gresley.

7. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:

I may be straying slightly away from C.S.R. but I hope I am not. [Members: Oh!] [Aside] It is very close. It is the other part of C.S.R., F.S.R. I would just like to ask the Minister to explain why he considers a 66 per cent increase in G.S.T. to be a moderate increase, which are his words.

The Deputy Bailiff :

I am sorry, I think that is the same problem.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I have other questions on tax which he can come back to, I think.

8. Deputy G.P. Southern :

I will stay within the bounds of my original question then. Will the Minister give a categorical assurance - he is quite fond of those - that he will not be seeking a 2-year pay freeze as the mechanism for achieving his £40 million cuts from the conditions and terms of all public sector workers?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

What I will be attempting to ask for is a target of £40 million delivered from terms and conditions within 2 years. How that is delivered is going to be by extensive communication, discussions with union representatives and staff. Certainly the mathematics are that it would have the effect of a 2- year pay freeze, but the Deputy is aware of my strong views in relation to some pay groups being others. I do not think that there is one policy that should fit all pay groups. Some pay groups will inevitably have a pay freeze, and maybe for a longer period of 2 years because of the differential of earnings compared to U.K. benchmarks.

9. Deputy G.P. Southern :

A final supplementary, if I may. Will the Minister guarantee to negotiate any such changes to terms and conditions and not, as he just said, discuss and consult?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

Certainly I do not believe that wage negotiation should be negotiated over the floor of this Assembly, and that view has been known, and we were put in the position last year in relation to the pay freeze. It is quite difficult to answer Deputy Southern - especially when he is interrupting - but it is quite difficult to argue with Deputy Southern as he does not believe there should be any cutbacks in terms of pay and remuneration.

Senator G.P. Southern :

The Minister is putting words into my mouth. I have never said that and I do not say it now. The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , please sit down and let the Minister finish his answer.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

I think I have finished, Sir.

4. The Deputy of St. Mary of the Chief Minister regarding the reliance on the content of the Napier Report:

The Napier Report at paragraph 67 records that the Solicitor General advised the Director of Human Resources and I quote: "I would urge that particular caution be exercised to check that there are no provisos or caveats to any of the conclusions reached upon which reliance is to be placed." Would the Chief Minister inform Members why this advice was not followed and when he considers it is acceptable to ignore repeated legal advice?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):

This passage refers to a statement that the former Minister for Home Affairs and the Chief Executive did not have access to the interim report of the Metropolitan Police and if they had, they would have seen that it was written in heavily qualified terms. In fact, when deciding to suspend the then Chief Officer of Police, the Minister for Home Affairs at that time had access to other information, for example, as referred to in the Napier Report, paragraph 89, from the meetings of the Gold Group, which indicated that serious mistakes had been made, as well as the information in a letter from the Deputy Chief of Police, which referred to the report of the Metropolitan Police. The Minister for Home Affairs had to decide what action to take in relation to the Chief Officer of Police given that in the light of the press briefing on 12th November 2008, the authority and judgment of the Chief Officer of Police, and by extension, that of the States of Jersey Police, would be called into question. The Minister for Home Affairs therefore had to balance the legal advice, which was given with other considerations, including a requirement to maintain public confidence in the States of Jersey Police. Legal advice was not ignored. It was carefully considered and weighed in the balance with other information available to the Minister.

1. The Deputy of St. Mary :

The letter of the Deputy Chief of Police to the Chief Executive on 10th November stated that: "The interim findings of the review by the Metropolitan Police fully support my previous comments" and that is in Napier paragraph 104. Napier says: "That report was in heavily qualified terms" (paragraph 69) and he also says: "The report expressly states that any observations in this report may be subject to amendment." Yet that was the report relied on, firstly, by the Acting Deputy Chief of Police at the time and, further, should have been mentioned or known about by the various people involved. It seems to me, and I would ask the Chief Minister to comment why it is that those reservations, those severe, completely qualifying reservations, which Napier refers to as "heavily qualified terms", why these were not taken into account in the suspension process.

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I thought I had already made it clear in my original answer that a number of factors were taken into in deciding whether or not to suspend. It was that balance which was struck by the Minister for Home Affairs on justifiable grounds which led to the suspension, of which the letter in question was only one factor.

2. The Deputy of St. Mary :

May I ask a further supplementary? Were those other matters outside the letter from the former Deputy Chief of Police whatever? Were those other matters formally mentioned in any of the suspension letters to the former Chief of Police as they should have been?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

The question was about whether the decision to suspend was a valid decision, and I repeat that it was a valid decision for the reasons I have quoted.

3. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

Does the Chief Minister feel that the former Minister for Home Affairs misled the House when he stated the reason he took the action of suspension was based on the letter from the Acting Chief Officer of Police and the Metropolitan Police Report and those alone?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I do not recall the words of the previous Minister for Home Affairs but I am sure that he had no intention to mislead the House.

4. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin :

Given that the Chief Minister is very selective with certain parts of the Metropolitan Police Interim Report, will he request the Minister for Home Affairs to make the Metropolitan Police Report and Interim Report available to all States Members even under confidentiality clauses?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I can certainly make the request to the Minister but I have no expectation it would be delivered. [Laughter]

5. Deputy M. Tadier :

Does the Chief Minister accept that on paragraph 107 of the report, it says that too much reliance was placed on information coming from one source and that, irrespective of what the justification in hindsight may have been, Napier also said that the basis on which Mr. Power was suspended on 12th November 2008 was, in his view, inadequate. If the Chief Minister accepts that, what action will he be taking?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I think we are going over old ground here. I have already indicated that Mr. Napier produced his findings, which I have taken into account, and formed my own conclusions as a result of his comments.

6. The Connétable of St. Helier :

The Chief Minister says that the legal advice was not ignored. It was simply balanced. Will the Chief Minister agree with me that it is not so much a matter of ignoring legal advice but not sharing it with States Members? Will he confirm that the reservations by the Crown Officers were not shared with States Members at any stage during the statement by the former Minister for Home Affairs, nor were they shared with this Assembly during the in camera debate when I attempted to get this matter resolved at an early stage. What is his view on the fact that the former Chief Minister replied to an email from me saying that the legal basis of the suspension was absolutely assured?