States Meeting Transcript - 22/06/2010

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 22nd JUNE 2010

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS..........................7

1. Resignation of Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade from the Planning Applications Panel 7

1.1 Senator F.E. Cohen:......................................................................7

2. Resignation of Senator A. Breckon as Chairman of the Health, Housing and Social Security Panel: ............................................................................7

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier : ...................................................7
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................7

QUESTIONS......................................................................................7

3. Written Questions........................................................................7

1. DEPUTY J.M. MAÇON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE PROVISION OF CHILDREN'S TOILET FACILITIES AT MILLBROOK PARK:.......................................7
2. THE CONNÉTABLE OF ST. LAWRENCE OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING UPDATING THE HEALTH CARE REGISTRATION LAW:................................................................8
3. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING TOWN AMBASSADOR' SCHEMES: ..............9
4. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING ENERGY EFFICIENCY SAVINGS: ..........9
5. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARTIN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING SUSPENSION OF THE CONSULTANT GYNAECOLOGIST:.......................10
6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN CANCER DRUGS:................................................................................11
7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE COMPREHENSIVE SPENDING REVIEW PROPOSALS:..........................................................................12
8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING LANGUAGE TEACHING IN JERSEY SCHOOLS: ............................................................................12
9. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING MONITORING OF THE ENERGY FROM WASTE PLANT OUTFLOW: .........................................................14
10. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE FINANCE INDUSTRY-RELATED STAFF IN HIS DEPARTMENT:.................16
11. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARTIN OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE COSTS OF THE WILTSHIRE POLICE INVESTIGATION:.....20
12. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND

TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE TOWN PARK: ........................21

13. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING PUBLIC SECTOR SALARIES OVER £100,000:......................21
14. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING RAPE STATISTICS:........................................22
15. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE INTERIM METROPOLITAN POLICE REPORT:................22
16. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING BY-ELECTION COSTS:................................23
17. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARTIN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE COST OF THE SUSPENSION OF THE CONSULTANT GYNAECOLOGIST:......23
18. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE CENTRAL MARKET SUB-POST OFFICE: ......24
19. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING JERSEY HERITAGE TRUST'S AUDITED ACCOUNTS:....................................................24
20. SENATOR A. BRECKON OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE SERVICE LEVEL AGREEMENT WITH SERCO:..25
21. SENATOR J.L. PERCHARD OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE JERSEY ANTHEM:....................................................................26
22. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING RIGHTS OVER JERSEY WATERS:...................................26

4. Oral Questions...........................................................................27

1. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the Metropolitan Police Interim Report':..................................................27 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................27

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................27
2. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................27
3. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.......................................................28

4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................28
5. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................28

2. Deputy P.J. Rondel of St. John of the Chief Minister regarding the leases and rental sums for the Liberty Wharf site: ..............................................................28 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):.................................................28

1. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................29
2. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................29
3. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................29
4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier:...............................................29
5. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................30
6. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................30
7. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville :..................................................30
8. Deputy D.J. De Sousa of St. Helier:....................................................30
9. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................30
10. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................30

3. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding scaffolding around St. James' Church:..................................................31 Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources - rapporteur):.............................................................................31

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................31
2. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................32
3. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................32
4. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................32

5. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................33
6. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................33
7. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................33

4. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the receipt of advice on police procedures:......................................................................34 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................34

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................34
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................34

3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................35
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................35
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................35

5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the recommendations of the Scrutiny report into the Prison Board of Visitors: .............36 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................36

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................36 Deputy M. Tadier : ............................................................................36
2. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................37
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................37
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................37
5. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................37
6. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................38

6. Deputy A.E. Jeune of St. Brelade of the Chief Minister regarding the role and responsibilities of the Chief Executive to the Council ofMinisters:.....................39 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):.................................................39

1. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................39
2. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................39
3. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:........................................40
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................40
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................40
6. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................41
   7. Deputy D.J.A. Wimberley of St. Mary of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the timetable for the 3% and 5% additional cuts for 2012 and 2013 under the Comprehensive Spending Review:......................................................41 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):............................41

1. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................41
2. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................42
3. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................42
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................42
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................43
6. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:....................................................43
7. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................44
   8. Deputy K.C. Lewis of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the delay in the opening of the new air traffic control tower at the airport:..............................44 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................44

1. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:.....................................................45
2. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................45
3. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................45
4. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................46
5. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................46
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................46
7. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................46

9. Deputy D.J. De Sousa of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture regarding the removal of the Havre des Pas pool lifeguards as a Comprehensive Spending Review saving proposal:........................................................................47 Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):..............47

1. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................47
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................47
3. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................48
4. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................48

5. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................48

10. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of the Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the investigation of an alleged secret recording by a States Member of another member: ................................................................................48 Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):.....48

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................49
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................49

11. The Deputy of St. Martin of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the suspension of a surgeon since February 2009:..........................................49 Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):.................49

1. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................49
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................50
3. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................50
4. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................50
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................51
6. Deputy A.E. Jeune : ..................................................................51
7. Deputy A.E. Jeune : ..................................................................51
8. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................51
9. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :....................................................52
10. The Deputy of St. Martin:..........................................................52
11. The Deputy of St. Martin:..........................................................53
    12. The Deputy of St. John of the Minister for Social Security regarding the visits by Social Security officers to the new Energyfrom Waste Plant site:.............................53 Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security):..........................53

1. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................53
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................53
3. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................54
4. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................55

13. Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the investigation into Operation Blast':......................................................................55 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................55

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................56
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis : .................................................................56
3. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................56
4. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................56
5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................57
6. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................57

14. Deputy M. Tadier of the Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding complaints made against Senator J.L. Perchard in R.66/2010:................57 The Connétable of St. Mary (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): .............58

1. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................58
2. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................58

5. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Housing ...................59

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................59 Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade (The Minister for Housing):..................................59
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................59

5.2.1 Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................59

3. Deputy S. Pitman of St. Helier:.........................................................60

5.3.1 Deputy S. Pitman:......................................................................60

4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................60
5. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................60
6. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................61
7. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................61
8. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................61
9. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................62
10. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................62

6. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Chief Minister..........................62

1. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................62 Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):.................................................63

1. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................63
   2. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................63

6.2.1 Deputy T.M. Pitman:...................................................................64

3. The Connétable of St. Mary:............................................................64
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................64
5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................64
6. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................65
7. Deputy A.K.F. Green of St. Helier:.....................................................65
8. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................65
9. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................65
10. Deputy C.H. Egré of St. Peter:..........................................................66
11. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................66

6.11.1 Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................66

STATEMENTS OF A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................67

7. The Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s will make a statement regarding the Island-wide rate for 2010................................................................67

7.1 Connétable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen:....................................................67

1. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................67
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................67
3. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................67

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................67 Deputy G.P. Southern :........................................................................67

8. Draft Supply of Goods and Services (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.53/2010)...............................................................................69

1. Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):...................69

1. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................69
2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................70 Deputy M.R. Higgins (Chairman, Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):........................70

2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................70

9. Draft Mental Health (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.55/2010)..............70

1. Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services - rapporteur):.............................................................................70

1. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................71
2. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................71
3. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:..................................................71
4. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................72
5. Deputy A.K.F. Green:..................................................................72
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................72
7. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................72
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................73
9. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................73
10. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................73 Deputy M. Tadier : ............................................................................74

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................77

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................77

2. Deputy E.J. Noel: ......................................................................78

1. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................79
2. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................79
3. Senator F.D.H. Le Gresley:.............................................................79
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................80
5. Deputy E.J. Noel: ......................................................................80 Mr. H. Sharp, H.M. Solicitor General: ........................................................81

10. Vote of No Confidence: Chief Minister (P.76/2010)....................................83

10.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................84

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:..............................................................90
2. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................93
3. The Deputy of St. Martin : ...........................................................94
4. Deputy A.E. Jeune : ..................................................................97
5. Deputy A.K.F. Green:...............................................................98
6. Senator T.J. Le Main:................................................................98
7. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier : .......................................................99
8. Deputy M. Tadier :..................................................................100
9. The Deputy of St. Mary:............................................................104
10. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: .........................................................110
11. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:...........................................................111
12. Deputy G.P. Southern :............................................................111

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................113

The Roll was called and the Greffier of the States led the Assembly in Prayer. APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

1. Resignation of Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade from the Planning Applications Panel The Deputy Bailiff :

Returning to paragraph F on the Order Paper, the Bailiff has received the resignation of Deputy Power from the Planning Applications Panel.

1.1 Senator F.E. Cohen:

I would like to thank Deputy Power for his efforts over a considerable period in relation to the Planning Applications Panel. He has served with great diligence and has made a great contribution to the Planning Applications Panel and we will miss him. Thank you. [Approbation]

2. Resignation of Senator A. Breckon as Chairman of the Health, Housing and Social Security Panel:

The Deputy Bailiff :

It is not on the Order Paper because it was received very late last night, but the Bailiff received last night the resignation of Senator Breckon as Chairman of the Health, Housing and Social Security Panel. The matter is covered to some extent by Standing Order 114, which would normally direct the presiding officer, I think, to invite nominations for this vacancy, unless Members wish to proceed in another way. As the notice of the resignation comes so late, and I am required to report it to the States as soon as it is received, it seems it might be desirable to postpone this matter for 2 weeks, but it is a matter for the Members.

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier :

Sir, I propose formally that we leave it for 2 weeks. I would like to consider myself as a candidate and I had not heard any news about this until this morning.

2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

I am a little concerned about this, because it means that we have a Scrutiny Panel without a Chairman, and this is a time when we need all Scrutiny Panels fully functioning, and I am not sure that we can leave it for 2 weeks. Can we leave it until after lunch?

Deputy G.P. Southern :

It does have a deputy Chairman. The Deputy Bailiff :

The deputy Chairman will continue until such time as the States elect a new Chairman. There seems to be a consensus to leave the matter over until the next meeting in 2 weeks' time.

QUESTIONS

3. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY J.M. MAÇON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE PROVISION OF CHILDREN'S TOILET FACILITIES AT MILLBROOK PARK:

Question

Does the Minister have any plans to introduce children's toilet and baby changing facilities into the younger children's play area (next to the Café) at Millbrook park, since this is the main area where children of potty training age play and the nearest toilets are the other side of the park, and if not, why?

Answer

There are no plans to introduce children's toilet and baby changing facilities into the younger children's play area at Millbrook Park. T he existing toilet block, which includes baby changing facilities, is only a short distance from the play area and is considered sufficient to serve the play area and all other areas of the Park.

2. THE CONNÉTABLE OF ST. LAWRENCEOFTHE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING UPDATING THE HEALTH CARE REGISTRATION LAW:

Question

What consideration, if any, is being given to updating the Health Care (Registration) (Jersey) Law 1995?

If no consideration is being given, will consideration be given to updating and revising those professions covered by the Law and will that change be made by Regulation or Order?

Answer

The Health Care Registration Law 1995 requires anyone working in any of the health or social care occupations listed in the Schedule to the Law to be registered in the Island. The Regulations made under the Health Care (Registration) Jersey Law 1995, were amended to add to the schedule of registrable occupations, Ambulance Paramedics (in 2003), Nurses, Midwives and Specialist Community Public Health Nurses (in 2005) and Art Therapists, Operating Department Practitioners, Podiatrists and Social Workers (in 2007).

A bid for drafting time was made in 2006 to amend the Law for the following reasons.

Firstly to limit the criteria for entry to the Jersey register, so that only professionals registered with a UK regulatory body will be eligible to register locally. The reason for this is that the UK regulators have the resources and infrastructure to determine the requirements for professional education and training, to set standards for codes of practice and professional conduct and to operate a framework for investigating and judging professional misconduct allegations. It would be unrealistic and inefficient for Jersey to set up an equivalent function. The intention is that once this amendment is in force, any new professional groups who are registered with a UK statutory body will be added to the Jersey Schedule of registrable occupations by regulation.

The proposed amendment will also enable any individual registered in Jersey to be removed in the event of their UK registration lapsing. At present it is only possible to do this annually when the registrant applies for re registration.

The amendment proposes to enable a registrant to be suspended from the register pending an investigation and to give authority to an individual or body to carry out an investigation into a registered professional where necessary.

The delay in implementing these proposals was due to the delay in the UK in registering Clinical Psychologists which was put back several times until finally coming into force in July 2009.

The original draft of the amendment is currently being reviewed with the law drafting office and it is hoped that it will be ready for lodging with the States in autumn session 2010.

3. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REGARDING TOWN AMBASSADOR' SCHEMES:

Question

Would the Minister be in favour of establishing a working party, in conjunction with the Constable of St Helier and Jersey Tourism, to establish a Town Ambassador' scheme employing  local residents (often students or retired), voluntary or paid, to aid tourists with orientation, information and so on, as a way of promoting the tourism industry, optimising tourists' on-Island experiences and thus increasing the likelihood of repeat custom, and if not, why?

Answer

We are fortunate in Jersey to have residents who are already prepared to go out of their way to provide a welcome and assistance to visitors as they visit our town centre and other locations around the Island.

We also have the Friends of Tourism scheme with as many as 450 members. This scheme was designed to inform and encourage local people to promote the Islands benefits in overseas locations as well as throughout the Island.

Whilst a new ambassadorial scheme would further enhance the quality of experience for visitors we do not feel that the benefit would justify the re-deployment of funding and human resources at a time when we are totally focussed on the challenges of a very difficult trading environment.

Economic Development is a partner in the Town Centre Partnership and supports the Connétable and the Town Centre Manager in many initiatives. We are for example very supportive of their events programme and of course the Angels at Christmas time.

I very much appreciate and welcome the sentiment contained in the suggestion.

Friends of Jersey Tourism are online on http://www.jersey.com/business/traveltrade/friends

4. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING ENERGY EFFICIENCY SAVINGS:

Question

Given the Minister's commitment to improving energy efficiency in the Island, what justification, if any does he have for the 5% (£54,000) reduction in energy efficiency grants in proposal PE-S4 of the Comprehensive Spending Review?

Answer

I am absolutely committed to establishing a way forward for the Island to become as energy efficient as is practically possible for two reasons. Firstly the efficient use of energy tackles fuel

poverty for those vulnerable people who have to spend a disproportionate element of their income on keeping warm. Secondly the efficient use of energy will lessen the carbon emissions attributable to Jersey and accord with our commitment under international agreements to work towards reducing our emissions. I hope to present an Energy Policy Green Paper to the States later this year which will provide a direction that the Island as a whole can follow to improve overall energy efficiency.

Turning now to the 5% saving for 2011 from the Energy Efficiency Grants, the CSR process involves careful examination and prioritisation of all the areas of activity within which P&E are involved. It was particularly challenging to carry this out for 2011 against the background of existing service and grant commitments in the timescale that the CSR process demanded.

The CSR process requires an overall 10% reduction in Departmental Spend based on 2010 budgets. In order to do this, all areas of expenditure have been analysed. It is not appropriate in such exercises to ring fence areas from these pressures as this creates a disproportionate pressure on other activities.

As a result the grants the Department provide have also been reduced in line with CSR expectations.

The Energy Efficiency Service currently targets improvements to low income groups. The initial target group comprised those eligible for the Cold Weather Payment and/or those in receipt of the Westfield (65+) Health scheme. The Service has provided, without charge, advice and measures such as wall and loft insulation to approximately 800 homes. Whilst the scheme continues to target newcomers to the initial target group it has recently expanded its eligibility criteria to cover everyone on Income Support which potentially will cover a further 5,000 eligible households. Furthermore, the scheme has opened a new work programme that covers community buildings and Parish sheltered accommodation that caters for people who mirror the target group, these include non-for-profit organisations like residential care centres and charities like Les Amis. A further 80 properties are currently being addressed through this programme which began recently.

I considered it appropriate to save some 5% of the grant fund in 2011 as being a saving that could be made without significant impact on the delivery of the Energy Efficiency programme.

I am committed to deliver many activities within the natural and built environment. I am confident that my CSR strategy for Planning and Environment will not only preserve front line services, but will also result in a more effective department in the longer term but delivered at lower cost.

5. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARTIN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING SUSPENSION OF THE CONSULTANT GYNAECOLOGIST:

Question

Given that in (a)(ii) of their Terms of Reference, Goodwin Hannah Ltd (GH) were required to investigate whether there was any conflict of interest on the part of States Employment Board which lead to the failure to resolve the Consultant Gynaecologist's suspension in a timely way, will the Chief Minister state whether this was investigated, whether any evidence of such conflict was received, and why nothing under this heading has been included in the redacted version of the Report?

Will the Chief Minister provide GH's findings outlining the procedural errors and conflicts of interest on the part of senior management at Health and Social Services which lead to the prolongation of the Consultant Gynaecologist's suspension?

Did GH receive any evidence of bullying or harassment of the Gynaecologist or his professional advisers during the period of his suspension, and, if so, what exactly were their findings on this specific issue?

Can the Chief Minister give an assurance that neither the hospital managers nor senior medical officers responsible for the catalogue of errors both in the initiation and continuation of the Consultant Gynaecologist's suspension have been, or presently are involved in the cases of the two hospital doctors currently excluded or suspended?

Answer

The review panel found no evidence of any conflict of interest issues regarding SEB. Until November 2009 SEB received statistical reports on the number of suspensions, since then they have been receiving more detailed reports on individual cases.

The purpose of providing the outcome in two parts, one of which was to remain confidential, was to ensure that the SEB complied with its legal obligations to staff, including the obligation to conduct itself in a way which maintains the trust and confidence of staff. There is sometimes a tension between that duty and the demand for personal information to be put into the public domain. I am not able to release the full findings of the Review because to do so would risk putting the SEB in breach of its duties to employees, to whom the SEB owes a duty of care.

No claims of bullying or harassment of the Consultant or his advisers were made and therefore were not investigated.

There are currently no exclusions from the hospital. Any cases will be managed by the Hospital Director assisted by the interim HR Director and overseen by the new Chief Officer for H&SS.

6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN CANCER DRUGS:

Question

Will the Minister inform members of the extent to which access to chemotherapy for cancer patients is being rationed in Jersey and in particular to the drug Avastin' which is currently being trialled?

Answer

With respect to access to the newer generation of more costly anti-cancer therapies, the guiding principle is that Jersey patients should be no worse off than their UK-resident counterparts.

Availability of new drugs in Jersey is controlled by the Consultant-led Drugs & Therapeutics Committee (DT&C), before becoming available in Jersey and prescribable at taxpayers' expense.

The Drugs & Therapeutics Committee routinely approves drugs for use in Jersey based upon two criteria. Firstly, legal licensing of the drug for its specific medical condition(s) by the European Medicines Agency (EMA), and secondly endorsement of treatment as a cost effective therapy for NHS use by the UK National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE).

Avastin (Bevacizumab) is a higher cost drug, priced at £2,000-£3,000 per month of therapy. Therefore a 12 month non-curative treatment course may cost up to £40,000 per patient.

Avastin is legally licensed – when combined with other anti-cancer drugs - for use in metastatic cancer of the colon, cancer of the rectum, metastatic breast cancer, and for advanced kidney cancer. Although legally licensed for use in these conditions, NICE has consistently withheld approval for use of Avastin in the bulk of its legally-approved applications. Taking the view that Avastin is disproportionately expensive.

With NICE withholding approval Avastin is not routinely available to UK NHS cancer patients, treated at the taxpayers' expense. An identical position pertains for public patients in Jersey.

A funding anomaly does however exist, whereby some - but not all - medically insured patients in the UK may have access to Avastin therapy - dependent upon the policy of their private Medical Insurer. Some Medical Insurers fund Avastin for the majority of its legally licensed medical indications, whilst other Insurers block all funding for Avastin - citing the NICE guidance of only short-term benefit at high cost.

In a situation where a Jersey resident cancer patient has a sympathetic Medical Insurer - prepared to reimburse the full costs of Avastin therapy - it becomes theoretically possible for that patient to travel repeatedly to the UK for anti-cancer treatment, as a private patient. However, it has been seen as unreasonable within H&SS to demand that medically insured patients - seriously ill patients with widespread cancer - travel repeatedly to the UK for fortnightly Avastin infusions for up to a year.

Therefore, on a case-by-case basis, a small number of fully insured patients have received non- curative repeat Avastin infusions in Jersey. This flexible approach is consistent with the principle that fully insured Jersey patients are no worse off than their fully insured UK counterparts.

Finally, Avastin is neither legally licensed nor NICE approved for use in patients with cancer of the ovary. A cancer for which Avastin therapy remains classed as unproven and experimental. It cannot be regarded as reasonable for H&SS to spend up to £40,000 of taxpayers' money on treatment that remains unproven.

7. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE COMPREHENSIVE SPENDING REVIEW PROPOSALS:

Question

Will the Minister inform members on a department by department basis what grades of staff were involved in the drawing up of the Council of Ministers' summary of the savings proposals and assure members that it was not solely the efforts of Chief Executive Officers and senior finance and other administrative directors?

Answer

I cannot do what the Deputy asks. There were many staff involved in suggesting ideas for the CSR submissions. Health and Social Services had a direct link on its intranet site together with a poster on every notice board asking staff for ideas. Other departments had workshops with various teams and encouraged contributions. I am advised that it was not solely the senior management teams who compiled the proposals.

I would stress that it is imperative that this process continues to encourage staff to contribute and participate because, as I have gone on record saying, it is our own staff that have some of the best ideas to improve services and save money.

8. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING LANGUAGE TEACHING IN JERSEY SCHOOLS:

Question

Can the Minister confirm that under the savings proposal ESC-4 re-defining core business for schools' he plans to axe the employment of Modern Language assistants in secondary schools, and state how many posts this will involve and what other  measures are included under this re- definition'?

Will he also state what proportion of the £298,000 saving this measure accounts for?

Will he assure the Assembly that such a cut will not reduce the standards achieved in foreign language examination grades achieved by our students especially in spoken French which is a proud and unique part of our Jersey heritage?

Can he state what impact this will have on the much-heralded initiative at Hautlieu School to introduce the International Baccalaureate (IB) which requires high standards in a second language study beyond the age of 16?

Will the Minister also state whether the posts have been advertised, but that shortlisting and the interview process has been suspended? When were appointments made in previous years in order to allow appointees to take up their places for the start of the new academic year in September?

Has any decision of the States on this matter in September been pre-empted by his department's actions?

Answer

Yes, I can confirm that the savings proposal ESC-4 will result in the cessation in the employment of the eight temporary Modern Language Assistants. The permanent posts will be unaffected by this change.

This saving accounts for £76,495, or approximately 25% of the total saving of £298,000 identified under the proposal ESC0-4 re-defining core business for schools'. The other measures relate to the stopping of initiatives now embedded in the school system, without impacting on front line services. These include the Solution Oriented Schools programme, and the training of school governors.

I am confident that schools will be able to organise their provision to ensure that standards can be maintained through this change period. It should be remembered that all pupils are taught by highly qualified and experienced modern language teachers within well resourced departments. Other academic departments achieve the appropriate results without any additional support. I should add that technology has vastly improved since the original provision of language assistants, and a great deal of support is now available to all pupils through the advancement in hardware and software packages.

It is expected there will be no impact on I.B. Modern Languages at Hautlieu School, as alternative provision will be made using new technologies and existing staff within the Modern Languages Department.

I can confirm that the temporary posts were advertised through the Alliance Française website, but the process was suspended shortly after advertising but prior to shortlisting. As in previous years, these posts were advertised in March/April for an October start, as the contracts run for an eight- month period from October to May. In the event that the States should decide in September 2010 not to accept the proposed spending reduction, the Department would investigate alternative arrangements for the academic year 2010/2011, possibly involving additional support from the Alliance Française.

In the longer term, we are discussing with interested parties ways in which we can provide further support for Modern Languages.

9. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING MONITORING OF THE ENERGY FROM WASTE PLANT OUTFLOW:

Question

Can the Minister give a date for the first use of the Energy from Waste plant at La Collette? Mindful of the critical importance of keeping emissions to the minimum, can the Minister advise the Assembly exactly how the emissions will be monitored?

Would the Minister detail which substances will be monitored and explain why these substances were selected and all others omitted?

For each substance can the Minister explain –

1. the time interval of the monitoring
2. the methods to be used
3. to what level of accuracy

Will monitoring take place outside the plant, and, If so –

1. for which substances
2. what will be the time interval of the monitoring
3. what methods are to be used
4. to what level of accuracy

In all cases, who will carry out the monitoring, when and how will it be checked and by whom?

Answer

The first use of the Energy from Waste plant for treating waste, is expected to be 1st November 2010. This date may be subject to change due to the complexity of the construction and project management process on site.

Oxygen; Carbon Monoxide; Hydrogen Chloride; Hydrogen Fluoride; Sulphur Dioxide; Nitrogen Oxides; Ammonia; Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs); and Particulates will be monitored and recorded continuously using a Continuous Emissions Monitoring System (CEMS) within the Energy from Waste plant.

In addition, the water vapour content, temperature and the pressure of the flue gases will be monitored so that the emission concentrations can be reported at the reference conditions required by the European Waste Incineration Directive 2000/76/EU.

Heavy Metals; Dioxins and Furans and Organic Compounds will also be monitored by means of spot sampling at frequencies agreed with the Regulator of the Waste Management (Jersey) Law 2005 and the States Health Protection Service, The frequencies are proposed to be quarterly for the first year and semi-annually thereafter:

These substances are those required to be monitored by the European Waste Incineration Directive (2000/76/EC). This is the recognised European standard for waste combustion. Meeting the standard has been accepted by the relevant Regulators in Jersey as the appropriate way to demonstrate that the Energy from Waste plant will meet best practice internationally for health and environmental protection.

Table 1 below sets out the proposed emission limits for the substances to be monitored.

The Continuous Emissions Monitoring System will be equipped so that:

1. HCl, CO, SO2, NOx (NO+NO2), HF and NH3 will be measured by a Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR) type multi-gas analyser;
2. Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC) will be measured by a Flame Ionisation Detector (FID) type analyser;
3. Particulate matter (PM) will be measured by an opacimeter; and
4. Oxygen (O2) will be monitored by a zirconium probe

The frequency of periodic measurements will comply with the European Waste Incineration Directive. The flue gas sampling techniques and the sampling platform will comply with the UK's Environment Agency Technical Guidance Notes M1 and M2. The methods and standards used for emissions monitoring will be in compliance with the UK's Environment Agency's Sector Guidance Note S5.01 and the European Waste Incineration Directive requirements. The Continuous Emissions Monitoring System equipment will be certified to the UK's Environment Agency's Monitoring Certification Scheme (MCertS) standard.

The continuously monitored emissions concentrations will be undertaken by the plant operational staff using an automated and certified system. This will be checked by an independent testing company at frequencies agreed with the States Health Protection Service and the Regulator of the Waste Management (Jersey) Law 2005. Periodic monitoring will be undertaken by an accredited independent laboratory.

The Planning Consent for the Energy from Waste plant (planning application reference PP/2007/0050) required a Strategy for the monitoring of vehicular generated air pollution in the vicinity during the construction, commissioning and initial operation of the plant. The Strategy was developed and accepted as appropriate by the Health Protection Service. Nitrogen Oxides (NOX) and Particulate Matter (PM) are monitored in accordance with this Strategy.

Oxides of Nitrogen are monitored using two separate methods; diffusion tubes and continuous monitoring using equipment operating on a chemi-luminescence principal, which is recognised as the reference method in Europe.

Particulate matter (PM10 and PM2.5) measurements are conducted continuously using a BAM (Beta Attenuation Monitor) which has been shown to be equivalent to the EU reference method. Data logging occurs at hourly intervals for Particulate matter and every 15 minutes for Nitrogen Oxides.

The diffusion tube monitoring will take place prior to and throughout the entire construction period and through the commissioning period; that is from January 2009 to June 2011. Continuous monitoring took place from January 2009 to January 2010 (prior to and during when the heavy construction took place including piling, excavation and concrete works) and will recommence for a further year once the plant is fully commissioned and operational. This further monitoring is expected to take place between March 2011 and March 2012.

The analysis of the air quality monitoring external to the plant is carried out by an independent accredited consultant.

10. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE FINANCE INDUSTRY-RELATED STAFF IN HIS DEPARTMENT:

Question

Would the Chief Minister advise the Assembly which staff in his department are working solely or in part on work related to the Finance Industry? How many FTE's are working in each of the following areas, or in combinations of these areas:–

1. media relations
2. marketing
3. arrangements for visits
4. industry liaison
5. product development
6. law drafting instructions
7. political engagement with key audiences

(viii) Anti-Money Laundering and anti-terrorism work (ix) negotiating TIEA's and DTA's

in other words, work which would not exist if the Finance Industry did not exist? Can the Chief Minister list the laws brought to the States in 2007, 2008 and 2009 which concern any aspect of the Finance Industry, and state how much law drafting time was taken up by these laws in FTE's?

Answer

The Chief Minister's Department Business Plan 2010 shows there are 3 FTE staff working on issues related to international finance. Of these posts, the Director International Finance is the only post dedicated solely to matters related to the Island's international finance industry. The other two posts, the Director International Taxation and the International Adviser, spend a varying proportion of their time on issues such as anti-money laundering, combating the financing of terrorism and the negotiation of TIEAs and DTAs. Other staff in the Department provide support as and when necessary, and this support is estimated at around 1FTE.

A list of the legislation relating to the finance industry lodged in each of 2007, 2008 and 2009 is set out below, along with corresponding lists of sanctions orders, money laundering orders, tax information exchange regulations and terrorism regulations. The Law Draftsman's Office estimate that the time spent on this legislation as a whole amounts to approximately 1.5 to 2 FTEs.

2007

Banking Business (Amendment No. 6) (Jersey) Law 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Law 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Law 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Exempt Schemes or Arrangements) (Jersey) Order 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Permits) (Exemptions) (Jersey) Order 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Permits) (Exemptions) (Amendment No 2) (Jersey) Order 200- Companies (Amendment No. 9) (Jersey) Law 200-

Companies (Amendment No.2) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Financial Services (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Law 200-

Financial Services (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Law 200-

Financial Services (Amendment of Law) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Financial Services (Amendment of Law) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Financial Services (Amendment of Law) (No. 2) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Financial Services (Collective Investment Funds) (Exemptions) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Funds Services Business (Registration and Fees)) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Funds Services Business) (Accounts, Audits and Reports) (Jersey) Order 200- Financial Services (Investment Business (Fund Services Business Exemption)) (Jersey) Order 200- Financial Services (Money Services Business) (Exemptions) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Money Services Business) (Registration and Fees) (Jersey) Order 200- Financial Services (Trust Company and Investment Business (Accounts, Audit and Reports)) Order 200-

Financial Services (Trust Company Business (Exemptions)) (Amendment No.2) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services Commission (Amendment No.4) (Jersey) Law 200-

Insurance Business (Amendment No. 6) (Jersey) Law 200-

2008

Banking Business (Appointment of a Manager) (Jersey) Order 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Appointment of a Manager) (Jersey) Order 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Permits) (Exemptions) (Amendment No 3) (Jersey) Order 200- Collective Investment Funds (Recognized Funds) (Actions for Damages) (Jersey) Regulations 200- Collective Investment Funds (Unclassified Funds) (Prospectuses) (Amendment No 5) (Jersey) Order 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Unregulated Funds) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 200-

Companies (Annual Returns - Additional Charge (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Companies (Amendment No. 10) (Jersey) Law 200-

Companies (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Unregulated Funds) (Jersey) Order 200-

Companies (General Provisions) (Amendment No 3) (Jersey) Order 200-

Companies (General Provisions) (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Order 200-

Companies (Prescribed Currency) (Revocation) (Jersey) Order 200-

Companies (Takeovers and Mergers Panel) (Jersey) Law 200-

Control of Borrowing (Amendment No 13) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Regulation (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Jersey) Law 200-

Financial Services (Advertising) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Law 2008 (Appointed Day) Act 200-

Financial Services (Amendment of Schedule 2 to Law) (Jersey) Order 2008

Financial Services (Amendment of Schedule 2 to Law) (No. 2) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Appointment of a Manager) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Trust Company Business (Exemptions No 2)) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Trust Company Business (Exemptions)) (Amendment No 3) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services Commission (Amendment No 5) (Jersey) Law 200-

Foundations (Jersey) Law 200-

Insurance Business (Appointment of a Manager) (Jersey) Order 200-

Limited Partnerships (Amendment) (Jersey) Law 200-

Non-Profit Organisations (Jersey) Order 200-

Non-Profit Organizations (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 200-

Proceeds of Crime (Supervisory Bodies) (Amendment of Law) (Jersey) Regulations

Proceeds of Crime (Supervisory Bodies) (Jersey) Law 2008 (Appointed Day) Act 200-

Proceeds of Crime (Supervisory Bodies) (Transitional Provision) (Jersey) Order 200-

2009

Banking Business (Depositors Compensation) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Banking Business (Depositors Compensation) (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Banking (Depositors Compensation) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Collective Investment Funds (Unregulated Funds) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Order 200- Companies (Appointment of Takeovers and Mergers Panel) (Jersey) Order 200-

Companies (Takeovers and Mergers Panel) (Amendment of Law) (Jersey) Regulations 200- Companies (Takeovers and Mergers Panel) (Jersey) Law 2009 (Appointed Day) Act 200- Companies (Amendment No 4) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Companies (Uncertificated Securities) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Amendment of Schedule 2 to Law) (No. 3) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Financial Service Businesses) (Jersey) Order 200-

Financial Services (Trusts Company Business (Exemptions Amendment)) (Jersey) Order 200- Foundations (Continuance) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Foundations (Amendment No 1) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Foundations (Winding Up) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Foundations (Mergers) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Limited Partnerships (Amendment) (Jersey) Law 2009

Non-Profit Organizations (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Order 200-

Proceeds of Crime (Supervisory Bodies) (Transitional Provision) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 200- Proceeds of Crime (Amendment of Schedule 2) (No.2) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Proceeds of Crime (Supervisory Bodies) (Amendment of Law) (No.2) (Jersey) Regulations 200-

Jersey Mutual Insurance Society, Incorporated (Alteration of Rules)(No 6) (Jersey) Law 200-

Community provisions - Sanctions Orders

Community Provisions (Belarus Sanctions) (Jersey) Order 2007

Community Provisions (Burma/Myanmar Sanctions) (Jersey) Order 2007

Community Provisions (Implementation of the mandate of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia) (Jersey) Order 2007

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Iran) (Jersey) Order 2007

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Lebanon) (Jersey) Order 2007

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – North Korea) (Jersey) Order 2007

Community Provisions (Uzbekistan Sanctions) (Jersey) Order 2007

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Burma/Myanmar) (Jersey) Order 2008

Community Provisions (Implementation of the mandate of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 2009

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Burma/Myanmar) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 2009

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Burma/Myanmar) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Order 2009

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Iran) (Jersey) Order 2009

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Iran) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 2009 Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – North Korea) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Order 2009

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Zimbabwe) (No. 6) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 2009

Community Provisions (Restrictive Measures – Zimbabwe) (No. 6) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Order 2009

Community Provisions (Uzbekistan Sanctions) (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 2009

Money Laundering

Money Laundering (Jersey) Order 2008

Money Laundering (Amendment) (Jersey) Order 2008 Money Laundering (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Order 2008 Money Laundering (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Order

Taxation - information exchange,

Taxation (Agreements with European Union Member States) (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 2007

Taxation (Exchange of Information with Third Countries) (Jersey) Regulations 2008

Taxation (Exchange of Information with Third Countries) (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 2009 Taxation (Exchange of Information with Third Countries) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Regulations 2009

Taxation (Exchange of Information with Third Countries) (Amendment No. 3) (Jersey) Regulations 2009

Taxation (Exchange of Information with Third Countries) (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Regulations 2009

Taxation (Exchange of Information with Third Countries) (Specified Date (Greenland and Norway)) (Jersey) Order 2009

Taxation (Exchange of Information with Third Countries) (Specified Dates (Iceland, Sweden, UK)) (Jersey) Order 2009

Terrorism

Terrorism (Enforcement of External Orders) (Jersey) Regulations 2008

Terrorism (Proscribed Organizations) (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Order 2008

11. THE  DEPUTY  OF ST.  MARTIN OF THE  MINISTER  FOR  HOME  AFFAIRS REGARDING THE COSTS OF THE WILTSHIRE POLICE INVESTIGATION:

Question

With reference to the suspension of the Chief Officer of the States of Jersey Police, will the Minister inform Members of the cost to date to include –

1. the  cost  of the investigation  carried  out by  the  Wiltshire  Police  to date  with  a breakdown of these costs to include, travel, accommodation, subsistence and legal costs?
2. the legal cost incurred in relation to the Royal Court Hearings and the Complaint's Board hearing in relation to defending appeals lodged by the suspended Chief Officer of the States of Jersey Police?
3. the cost of salaries and subsistence tocoverthe Chief Officer oftheStatesof Jersey Police's absence?
4. any ancillary costs not included above?

Who is monitoring the expenditure and from whose budget are these costs being funded?

Answer

1. The totalcostofthe first Wiltshire Investigation (Haut de la Garenne) to 31 May 2010 is £572,532.

The total cost of the second Wiltshire Investigation (Operation Blast) to 31 May 2010 is £262,390.

First Second

Salaries £289,984 £121,297

Travel costs £76,501 £46,739

Accommodation £84,866 £30,037

Meal & Entertainment £38,818 £12,852

Legal Costs £42,963 £31,617

Rents £12,600 £9,800

Equipment Purchased £17,867 £8,132

Other costs £8,933 £1,916

Total costs £572,532 £262,390

2. This detail is not held by Home Affairs. The Law Officers' Department do not make a charge to Departments for such work.
3. The costof salaries and subsistence to cover the absence of Mr Power up to the 20th July 2010 is £234,854.
4. Nil

The expenditure is being monitored by the Acting Chief Officer, States of Jersey Police and the Accounting Officer (Chief Officer Home Affairs). The expenditure is not being funded from the core Police budget, but is included in the Historical Abuse Enquiry additional costs.

12. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND TECHNICAL SERVICES REGARDING THE TOWN PARK:

Question

Can the Minister confirm that no detailed design work has been carried out on the Town Park? Would he advise the name of the consultants who are carrying out preliminary work on the design, what work it is that they are doing and the cost of this work?

Can the Minister explain to the Assembly how consultants undertaking this work does not prejudice the eventual appointment of a team to do the actual work of designing the Park?

Answer

As part of previous attempts to progress the Town Park various schemes have been drawn up to assist in visualising how the Park might look or for assistance in budgeting purposes. None of these schemes have been progressed further than concept design.

Transport and Technical Services, in consultation with Planning and Environment, have appointed a landscape architect called Burns and Nice who have extensive experience in urban park design. Burns and Nice are currently working with TTS in finalising the public consultation process for the Park design which will commence in July.

I am unable to provide the figure for the cost of the Park design as this is commercially sensitive information, but I can confirm that this figure has been competitively tendered and is a fixed fee for the full design and delivery of the Park.

As noted above, the contract for the Park design has already been tendered and won by Burns and Nice. However, it is a requirement of this appointment that the Consultants use local expertise where appropriate and following a recent fee competition a local architect has been appointed to design the structure that will house the toilets and café.

13. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING PUBLIC SECTOR SALARIES OVER £100,000:

Question

Would the Chief Minister provide details of the full salary costs and benefits of all public servants earning over £100,000?

Answer

I have provided salaries within bands of £5,000 of all public servants with salaries in 2009 of £100,000 per annum or above. The use of bands was based on legal advice in connection with the Data Protection (Jersey) Law and is consistent with recently published salary details in the UK Civil Service.

In terms of benefits, those who have salaries of £100,000 and more would normally receive the following:-

1. Membership of either of theStates Public Service Final Salary Pension schemes (this is equivalent to approx. 13.6% of salary);
2. Up to 5 weeks and 3 days annual leave entitlement;
3. For Hospital Consultants, contribution to medical indemnity insurance costs;
4. In most cases free car parking.

Senior staff may also benefit from standard Public Service benefit schemes such as sick and special leave entitlements, voluntary redundancy / voluntary early retirement entitlement where appropriate, etc. Hence although the cash value of pension and leave entitlements could generally be quantified, other benefits such as parking and the entitlements mentioned above are harder to quantify. Leave entitlements can generally be expected to add about 10% to the base value of salary, but of course these will also apply to comparable private sector remuneration. This is true of all public sector employees, although for uniformed services the value of pension would be even higher since their pension contributions are cross subsidised by other States employees due to an earlier retirement age and higher accrual rate.

No bonuses are paid in the public sector.

14. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING RAPE STATISTICS:

Question

How many complaints of rape have been made to the police in the last five calendar years and how many have resulted in convictions?

Answer

55 cases of rape have been reported in the last five calendar years relating to offences reported as committed during that period. 14 cases have resulted in conviction - nine for rape and five for indecent assault or grave and criminal assault.

Suspects were identified in 52 of the 55 cases reported.

In addition to the 55 cases, approximately 33 other cases were reported in the last five calendar years, which related to earlier periods. The figure of 33 is approximate because of the lack of detail in relation to some of the complaints which made a full investigation impossible. Of the 33 cases, six have resulted in convictions.

15. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE INTERIM METROPOLITAN POLICE REPORT:

Question

Can the Minister confirm that the Interim Report of the Metropolitan Police which was received on 10th November 2008 was used in the original suspension of the Chief Officer of the States of Jersey Police by his predecessor, former Deputy Andrew Lewis ?

Answer

I can confirm that reference to the said Interim Report was made in the letter dated 10th November 2008 of the now Acting Chief Officer of Police to the Chief Executive to the Council of Ministers. In a section of that letter the Acting Chief Officer of Police accurately set out many of the concerns which had been raised by the Metropolitan Police in relation to the way in which the Historical Abuse Enquiry had been conducted with regard to Haut de la Garenne.

That letter was forwarded to the then Minister for Home Affairs as an attachment to a letter dated 11th November 2008 from the said Chief Executive to the said Minister and that letter made comments in relation to "the Metropolitan Police report". Both letters were considered by the said Minister in relation to the original suspension of the Chief Officer of Police but the Minister for Home Affairs did not see the said Interim Report.

16. THE  DEPUTY  OF  ST. JOHN  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING BY-ELECTION COSTS:

Question

Given that Article 15(2) of the Public Elections (Jersey) Law 2002 requires the cost of a Senatorial election to be met by the States, would the Minister indicate the actual cost to the Treasury of previous  Senatorial  by-elections  so  that  Members  have  an  accurate  estimate  of  the  figures involved?

Answer

The last two Senatorial by-elections were held in February 2003 and March 2004 and total costs incurred by the States amounted to £20,251 and £19,373, respectively. The costs of the 2004 by- election comprised:

Parish polling station costs (reimbursed to parishes by the States): £12,318 Advertising & publicity costs: £7,075 Total costs: £19,393

There was no requirement in 2004 for the Privileges and Procedures Committee to publish an election supplement in the JEP, as that requirement was only introduced in 2008. The current cost of the supplement is £7,000 approximately, such that this year's by–election cost is likely to cost in the region of £30,000.

17. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARTIN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE COST OF THE SUSPENSION OF THE CONSULTANT GYNAECOLOGIST:

Question

What action, if any, is being taken against those responsible for implementing and continuing the Consultant Gynaecologist's suspension from the Health and Social Services Department?

Given that initially the review into the suspension was estimated to take between 4 to 6 weeks and cost £40,000, will the Chief Minister inform Members of the reasons for the delay and the final cost?

Answer

The Consultant Gynaecologist concerned is no longer excluded.

The review was completed with the benefit of hindsight. It notes the fact that this was a new policy, that people were unfamiliar in its application, that it was a difficult case and had the added complexity of a criminal investigation. It did not reach conclusions of negligence or malicious intent by any of the managers involved. I have asked for an assessment of whether there are grounds for taking disciplinary action and I am advised that there is no case against any current employees.

With respect to the length of time taken, the desk top work and the main interviews were completed by the end of last year and a first draft of the full confidential report written by mid January (approximately 6 weeks from the start of the review). There were a number of points to follow up with key individuals who were unavailable during January and February.

Late February and March were taken up with the final checks and the preparation of the shorter report fit for publication. There were no issues regarding the content of the confidential report, these final checks mainly related to addressing a number of important points to consider regarding the balance between openness in addressing the key issues in the published part of the report and ensuring that the SEB did not breach any employment or other duties to employees.

The total cost will be around £60,000. The extra cost is due to the additional work relating to checks regarding the part of the report which was to be published to States Members and the media and two additional visits by the Reviewers to Jersey for presentation to SEB and States Members.

18. THE DEPUTY OF ST. MARY OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE CENTRAL MARKET SUB-POST OFFICE:

Question

Given that the Minister informed the Assembly that the Market Sub-Post Office turns over £1 million in a year, can the Minister tell members how many customers this represents?

Answer

Unfortunately the Deputy is incorrect, on the 8th June, I informed the Assembly that the annual turnover of the network has reduced by £482k (8%) to £5.4m since 2008, and losses are forecast to increase by £412k to £1.2m over the same period.

I did not inform the assembly that the Central Market Sub post office turnover was £1m.

19. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING JERSEY HERITAGE TRUST'S AUDITED ACCOUNTS:

Question

Can the Minister advise the Assembly when the last set of audited Jersey Heritage Trust accounts were delivered to his Department and can he inform members whether they were in the SORP 2005 format which is recognised as being the industry standard and offers complete governance and transparency when large government grants are being paid to charities?

Answer

The Jersey Heritage Trust is obliged under its partnership agreement with the department to submit annual audited accounts in September for the previous year.

In 2009 the department agreed to accept accounts in draft for 2008 because the financial uncertainties facing the Trust meant that it would not have been possible to produce unqualified accounts at that time. The last audited accounts were, therefore, received in September 2008 for the year ending 31 December, 2007.

It is anticipated that efforts being made at present to ensure the sustainability of the Trust will mean that the 2008 draft accounts can be finalised in the immediate future. I expect that the audited accounts for 2009 will be produced in accordance with the agreed timetable.

I can confirm that the accounts are prepared under the historical cost convention and in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the Island of Jersey incorporating United Kingdom accounting standards, and comply with Statement of Recommended Practice (SORP 2) entitled "Accounting and Reporting by Charities" issued by the Charities Commission.

20. SENATOR A. BRECKON OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE SERVICE LEVEL AGREEMENT WITH SERCO:

Question

Can the Minister advise if a Service Level Agreement is in place with SERCO for the operation of the Waterfront Pool, and, if so, what are its provisions and what value was achieved for the public for the payment of £455,866 in 2009?

Answer

On 23rd August 2001 a service level agreement was reached between Waterfront Enterprise Board Limited and SERCO Limited. This covered areas of opening times, levels of charges, staffing and maintaining standards consistent with good industry practice. It is also required to provide swimming clubs with the equivalent time and on an equivalent basis to that which they enjoyed at Fort Regent pool before it closed.

Since opening in July 2003, the leisure pool has provided a valuable service to local residents and visitors and offers an extensive "Learn to Swim" programme for children and adults, provision for swimming clubs, public casual swimming and membership benefits.

Responsibility for the administration of the agreement relating to the Aquasplash was transferred from the Waterfront Enterprise Board to Education, Sport and Culture on 1st January 2005. The ESC Department subsequently reviewed the terms of the agreement in consultation with the operator, and during 2009 a variation to the agreement was agreed between SERCO and the Department. This variation came into effect on 1st January 2010, and under the new terms the

levels of financial subsidy paid to SERCO for the next five years are fixed. In addition, a performance related bonus arrangement has been included where both parties can benefit if the financial deficit is reduced below set levels.

These changes will allow the Department to budget effectively and also ensure SERCO maximises the performance of the Leisure Pool.

The maximum levels of subsidy payable are:-

2010 - £362,000 2011 - £369,000 2012 - £376,000 2013 - £383,000 2014 - £ 391,000

The level of subsidy paid by the public to SERCO in 2009 was £348,044.

The amount quoted by Senator Breckon of £455,866 is the sum of the amount paid by the public in 2009 to SERCO (£348,044) plus the annual contribution from the developer (formerly CTP Limited and now AXA Insurance) of £107,822. The latter is an annual index linked payment agreed with the developer of the Waterfront site as part of the original agreement, and runs for the duration of the contract (21 years).

At a more general level, I should point out that public swimming pools invariably require a public subsidy in some form or other, both in the United Kingdom and elsewhere. This is a point which was emphasised to States members at the time of the States debate on the St. Helier Waterfront Leisure Complex: Terms of Lease' (P.92/99), which was approved by the Assembly on 27th July 1999. In the report accompanying the proposition, it was noted that Fort Regent was then operating at an estimated deficit of £200,000, and it was made clear that a significant subsidy would be required to operate the new leisure pool.

21. SENATOR J.L. PERCHARD OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE JERSEY ANTHEM:

Question

In keeping with the promise made in a official statement to the States by the Chief Minister on 30th January 2007, will the Chief Minister give an instruction to his Ministers and officers of the States of Jersey that on formal occasions the song Island Home' is not to be introduced as the Jersey Anthem until such time that the States have formally approved it as such?

Answer

Whilst it has not yet been adopted as the "official" Jersey Anthem, the competition winner, Island Home', has been used on a number of formal occasions both within and outside the Island, and its use has been supported by the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture. Copies of recordings of Island Home' are now also available on the States website, and awareness of the anthem is growing.

In line with the undertaking given by my predecessor, I intend to bring a proposition to the States to seek the formal adoption of Island Home' as Jersey's anthem, once I am satisfied that there is justification in bringing such a proposition. In the meantime, Island Home' will continue to be played at formal and informal occasions, along with other Island songs, when appropriate. There is no intention to diminish the value placed on other popular songs, such as Ma Normandie' and Beautiful Jersey', which form part of our unique local culture.

22. DEPUTY P.V.F. LE CLAIRE OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING RIGHTS OVER JERSEY WATERS:

Question

Is H.M. Attorney General able to advise the Assembly whether it is possible for the Crown Estate in Jersey to secure the rights to the seabeds/Jersey waters when it comes to licensing and permitting of activities of a commercial nature and if not, when will he be in a position to do so?

Answer

The Crown's estate in Jersey is administered by Her Majesty's Receiver General who deals with all revenues, incomes and assets that the Crown holds in right of Jersey.

Whilst the matter is not without its complexities in my provisional opinion the sea bed under Jersey's territorial sea up to the twelve mile limit (or the median point in appropriate cases) is held by the Crown in right of Jersey and would fall under the jurisdiction of Her Majesty's Receiver General for Jersey.

Accordingly, if that is correct, it would be Her Majesty's Receiver General who would be responsible for licensing or permitting exploitation of the sea bed.

In my opinion this does not concern the Crown Estate in the United Kingdom.

[09:45]

4. Oral Questions

1. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the Metropolitan Police Interim Report':

Given that, on 8th June 2010, when asked whether he would make available to Members the Metropolitan Police Interim Report, the Minister stated that he would have to take legal advice before coming to a decision, will he now advise whether he has taken such advice, who, specifically, the advice was sought from, whether he will be making the report available to Members, and if so, at what date?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs):

I am very pleased to see that Deputy Trevor Pitman has had a change of heart here. Four weeks ago he was very, very strongly putting it to me that the report did not exist. Now he seems to have had a change of heart, and now accepts that it does exist, as indeed it does and always has. There has been no change in the position since I answered questions 2 weeks ago. I have not been able to take advice from the person from whom I wish to take advice, and there are indeed other related matters I wish to take advice from that person on.

Deputy T.M. Pitman:

I am sorry. I did not catch the date that the Minister was going to make the report available. I wonder if he could just repeat his answer to that.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I have made no decision on that. I must first take advice.

1. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

When will that advice happen? Contrary to the Minister's understanding of my position, I know something exists. The fact that it is an actual report, I think, is a complete myth; it is a collection of notes.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

It is a very strange question that is being asked, then, by the Deputy , about something which he does not believe exists.

Deputy T.M. Pitman:

This is, with due respect, rather silly on the Minister's point. We know something exists; when will he let us all see it? That is all we would like, and we can come to a conclusion.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand: The same response as before.

2. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

I think maybe Punch and Judy outfits might be in a .. Perhaps I can follow up then: ask the Minister, considering his answer to written question 15, that the former Minister for Home Affairs suspended the Chief Police Officer without ever seeing the so-called interim report, does the Minister think it is in any way credible that this Assembly will be asked to vote on the successor to the suspended Chief Police Officer, while we are also led to believe that the author of the interim report is himself being investigated following complaints about its accuracy?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I am absolutely certain there are Members of this House who wish to see the contents of this report.

3. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

I would suggest to the Minister, it is only reasonable the Deputy remains agnostic as to the nature of the document, seeing as he has not seen it. I would advise against being too harsh, it is only a reasonable position. The question is, though - it is one of the questions that the Deputy did ask - as

to from whom the Minister would be seeking advice with regard to the document. Could the Minister answer that part of the question?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I answered that question the last time questions were asked of me about this. I probably should not have revealed who that was, because of the convention which exists in relation to the taking of legal advice from a certain public body, but I did answer that last time.

4. Deputy M. Tadier :

Will you do us and the public the courtesy of answering the question now? It has been allowed as a question under Standing Orders. If it was already in the public domain, presumably it would not have been allowed as a question. But whatever is the case, will the Minister answer now for openness and transparency?

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

Yes, I will. It is the Law Officers' Department.

5. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Would the Minister consider this is the best he can do? Perhaps it is the wrong person facing a vote of no confidence today.

Senator B.I. Le Marquand:

I have faced, over the last weeks, repetitive questions in relation to the same matters, we have gone over and over again. I have often thought that this might be some sort of political Groundhog Day. The questions are going absolutely nowhere. The questioners know perfectly well what I have said on numerous occasions, which is that I will put as much as I possibly can into the public domain as soon as I can. Why they seek to waste everybody's time by asking me further questions, I really do not know. [Approbation]

2. Deputy P.J. Rondel of St. John of the Chief Minister regarding the leases and rental sums for the Liberty Wharf site:

I sincerely hope I am not going to be wasting anybody's time. The Deputy Bailiff :

So do we all. [Laughter]

The Deputy of St. John :

As businesses at Liberty Wharf are starting to begin trading, would the Minister advise Members which companies will be occupying the site, give details of the leases and rental sums, and advise whether the rental income will be paid to the Waterfront Enterprise Board, the States, or to another body?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):

The site is the responsibility of an independent company, Island Developments Limited, who hold the head lease of the property from the Waterfront Enterprise Board Limited. It is the Island Developments Limited which will receive any income from the sub-tenancies, and details of the occupiers are confidential to Island Developments Limited, a private company, until that company releases them. On the expiry of the head lease, the benefit of the property and its rental income at that time will revert to the Waterfront Enterprise Board and not to the States.

1. The Deputy of St. John :

Yes. As Harcourt have been given 60 days' notice to complete work on Liberty Wharf, have we got another contractor in the wings to complete any of the outstanding works, or are we going to have yet more delays while a new contractor is found?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I am not sure how that relates to the question about a lease on the property. The Deputy Bailiff :

I was just wondering the same thing.

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I think I would prefer to have notice of that question.

2. The Deputy of St. John :

I have another question, if I may, then. Of the new tenants for Liberty Wharf, a number of the tenants had options on their site for 2 years. Given the option time has now elapsed, have these options been renewed? If not, what inducements are on offer? Could it be that the big players taking on these leases are being offered rent free, so as to sign up? Will the Minister give details if he has them, it sounds as if he has very little information?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

Indeed, I do have very little. I think the Deputy needs to be reminded that Island Developments Limited is a private company taking on a head lease from the Waterfront Enterprise Board, and I have no knowledge whatsoever or way of getting  information from the directors of a private company. It is between that company and its customers.

3. The Deputy of St. John :

Given that the Chief Minister is responsible for W.E.B. (Waterfront Enterprise Board), he must have far more information at his fingertips than he is telling us. I think he is misleading us by telling us that another company is involved. The Minister is misleading the House, in my view. Will he please come back to the House and give us far more details on the areas that I have put to him this morning?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I have no wish to be obstructive to the Deputy , but I cannot get information from a private company, unless they are prepared to release it. And so, while I can give all the hopeful signs to the Deputy , I cannot guarantee providing any information whatsoever.

4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier :

I share the Deputy of St. John's frustration, and I think members of the public must be wondering what is in it for them. This is a public asset, what is the States receiving in return for the lease to this company, this private company? Can we have some indication of the length of the lease and the kind of remuneration that the public, that is to say, the taxpayers and people of Jersey, are receiving for this large shopping mall that is soon to open?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

Yes, that is a fair question, and the Waterfront Enterprise Board, in entering that lease, received a premium on the lease of £4.5 million, together with the delivery, at the developer's expense, of a bus station or transportation centre, and the ability to participate in any overages as a result of the development, should they arise. The lease is for 150 years.

5. Senator A. Breckon:

In the original question, the Deputy of St. John asked the Chief Minister about businesses at Liberty Wharf starting up to begin trading, and the Minister was asked if he would advise Members which companies would be occupying the site. I wonder if the Chief Minister would like to tell the House whether he believes a shop opened on the old tourism site selling pasties is better value than the old tourism building?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

That is a matter of judgment for individual States Members. In any case, it is irrelevant; a lease has been entered into between the Waterfront Enterprise Board and Island Developments Limited and under the terms of that lease, the tenant is entitled to sublet to whomsoever they wish, within the terms of that lease.

6. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

I think I heard the Chief Minister correctly. He mentioned £4.5 million and a lease of 150 years. Could he advise the Assembly and the public whether he thinks that is good value for money?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

The complete deal was for £4.5 million, plus the building of a bus station, the provision of the ancillary services there, and the potential to receive overages from the subleases from the tenants. The overall package was evaluated and it was decided it was good value for the taxpayer.

7. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville :

Would the Chief Minister agree with me that in fact, the pasty shop is next door to the old tourism building, and not the old tourism building?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I think the principle of the question remains identical. The exact location is irrelevant.

8. Deputy D.J. De Sousa of St. Helier :

Following on from Deputy Pitman's question; the £4.5 million that has gone to W.E.B. for this. Can the Chief Minister please inform the States when the taxpayer of the Island will receive any monies back from the W.E.B. account?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

That is a matter for negotiation between the Minister for Treasury and Resources and the board of W.E.B. If there are adequate funds in the W.E.B. account which are not needed, then the company may well declare a dividend payable to the States. That is a matter for the company and the Minister for Treasury and Resources to talk about and agree.

9. The Connétable of St. Helier :

The Chief Minister said that there was a link between the capital costs of the bus station (the transportation centre) and the money paid to W.E.B. Would he undertake to talk to W.E.B. about the possibility of getting this company, Island Developments, to contribute towards the revenue cost of the bus station, which might allow us to keep it open later in the evenings?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

I can certainly talk to the board of W.E.B. and ask them that question. I will let the Members know the outcome, if any.

10. The Deputy of St. John :

I am somewhat disappointed in the Minister. I thought he would be far more prepared this morning, given he has got a vote of no confidence in him later. Given that the rental at the bus station has doubled this year, will the Minister make inquiries as to why it has doubled and was not fixed for the cost of living? It has gone up from £50,000 per annum to £100,000 a year. Will he make sure that in future it is only fixed to the cost of living, if this is a property that we own indirectly?

Senator T.A. Le Sueur :

If the terms of a lease have been entered into in good faith, the terms of that lease have to be abided by.

3. Deputy F.J. Hill of St. Martin of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding scaffolding around St. James' Church:

Given that in July 2008 the scaffolding which was erected around St. James' Church, which was erected in September 2006, cost £15,500 a year alone, would the Minister advise how much the hiring of the scaffolding has cost to date, why it is still there and when will it be removed?

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): Deputy Le Fondré, responsible for property matters, will answer this question.

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources -

rapporteur):

The hire charges for the scaffolding were approximately £15,500 in 2007, £15,500 in 2008, £15,700 in 2009, and estimated to be approximately £17,000 for 2010. What I would say is that the scaffolding remains in situ to protect the public from the risk of loose masonry falling from the towers, and the cost of making safe the towers and façade is estimated at between £500,000 and £750,000. Therefore the sheer cost of remedying the problem hugely outweighs the short term revenue cost of keeping the scaffolding in place. This is one of the dilemmas we are persistently having in property. Jersey Property Holdings has been required to prioritise this expenditure on building maintenance to essential health and safety compliance works, and is therefore not in a position to direct the necessary funding to repair the towers in St. James at this time. Unfortunately, to answer the last part of the question, at present there is no firm plan to remove the scaffolding.

1. The Deputy of St. Martin :

I did ask very much the same question 2 years ago, in fact on 2nd July, and I understand that the answer given last time was around £300,000 to put the matter right. Is the Assistant Minister able to inform Members why the large increase in the work? Is it because it is deteriorating faster than one would have thought, therefore the sooner it was done? Would it not be better to have the job done sooner, rather than wait, because it will go up a lot more? Why has it gone up so much?

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:

I would have to go back and just check my previous response in terms of exactly the composition of the £300,000. What I do know is that there are 2 aspects to the work.

[10:00]

One of the actual pinnacles on the top of St. James, which are subject to very stringent planning conditions, and for example, one application which was made in November 2006 was just simply to remove them, which would have been at a cost of approximately £88,000. However, that is not acceptable, given that the building is an S.S.I. (Site of Special Interest). The further piece of work, as I understand it, is there is a degree of remedial work that is required to the actual front of the building as well. So it is not just the pinnacles, it is also the facade of the building that requires attention. Essentially, given that the other priorities that exist in the estate, and given the maintenance budget, of which I think Members are already aware of the position that the property portfolio is in, there are far greater priorities than this particular project. That is the dilemma we face.

2. The Deputy of St. Martin :

Just a follow up, really. Again, 2 years ago, the Minister answered last time, but gave an assurance to the House that they were having a meeting with the Minister for Planning to ensure that there was a solution, because it would be hoped that the work would be carried out before election time, but the Minister at the time did not say what election. Was there any possibility of the 2 departments - Property Holdings and Planning - getting together to see what can be done to get this work completed? It was promised it would be done before the election last time, can we have an assurance of when there will be a report between Property Holdings and Planning to get a resolution to this problem?

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:

We are certainly in dialogue with Planning on a variety of matters on many occasions, so I shall ensure this is raised again with them. My last understanding on the matter, which was a few months ago, was that discussions had been had with Planning, no solution had been found to meet the S.S.I. conditions. We are all working together; I think we fully accept the position in the Planning Department on the matter. However, even if we can come to an acceptable solution from the planning perspective, it does come down to the priority of the other statutory maintenance that we must perform on the portfolio to keep it safe, and that is our utmost concern, and has to remain that way.

3. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Following on from the last question, really, I accept what the Assistant Minister says about priorities, but does he not also concede that this is the type of response that drives the public mad? Ultimately, if this continues, we will arrive at having spent more than £500,000 and still having a building wrapped in scaffolding. It makes no sense, certainly not to me, or most of the people I speak to. That was the question: does he agree it is a false economy?