States Meeting Transcript - 12/07/2011

STATES OF JERSEY

OFFICIAL REPORT

TUESDAY, 12th JULY 2011

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS..........................6

1. Election of the Minister for Planning and Environment................................6

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):............................................6
2. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :.........................................................6
3. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville :...................................................7
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:................................................7
5. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour:....................................................7

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ...............................................................9
2. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade : .........................................................9
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:......................................................................9
4. Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):...........10
5. Deputy P.J. Rondel of St. John : ........................................................10
6. Senator T.J. Le Main: ..................................................................10
7. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................10
8. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................10
9. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................11
10. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier:...............................................11
11. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour:..................................................11
12. Deputy A.E. Jeune of St. Brelade:...................................................11
13. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:......................................12
14. Deputy D.J.A. Wimberley of St. Mary : ..............................................12
15. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):...............................................................................12
16. Connétable P.F.M. Hanning of St. Saviour:..........................................12
17. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................13
18. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):...................13
19. Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................13
20. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................14
21. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................14

6. Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence:......................................................14

1. Senator T.J. Le Main: ..................................................................16
2. Deputy M. Tadier ofSt.Brelade:.......................................................16
3. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................16
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................16
5. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................17
6. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................17
7. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................17
8. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................17
9. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................17
10. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................18

11. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:....................................................18
12. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier : ............................................18
13. Deputy K.C. Lewis : .................................................................18
14. Deputy A.E. Jeune : ..................................................................18
15. The Connétable of St. Brelade:......................................................19
16. Deputy D.J. De Sousa of St. Helier : .................................................19
17. The Deputy of Trinity : ..............................................................19
18. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:....................................................19
19. Connétable J.L.S. Gallichan of Trinity : ..............................................20
20. The Connétable of St. Saviour:......................................................20
21. Senator J.L. Perchard: ...............................................................20
22. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................21
23. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................21
24. Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................21

7. Deputy C.H. Egré of St. Peter:..........................................................22

1. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................23
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................24
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................24
4. Senator T.J. Le Main: ..................................................................24
5. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................24
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................25
7. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................25
8. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................26
9. The Connétable of St. Brelade:..........................................................26

10. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................26
11. The Deputy of Trinity : ..............................................................26
12. Senator J.L. Perchard: ...............................................................26
13. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................27
14. The Connétable of Trinity :..........................................................27
15. Deputy A.E. Jeune : ..................................................................27
16. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................27
17. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................27
18. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................28
19. Deputy K.C. Lewis : .................................................................28
20. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................28
21. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................28
22. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................29
23. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................29
24. Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................29

8. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................29

1. Senator T.J. Le Main: ..................................................................31
2. Deputy S.Power:.......................................................................31
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................32
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................32
5. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................32
6. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................33
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................33
8. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................33
9. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:.......................................................33
10. Connétable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen:.................................................34
11. Deputy D.J. De Sousa: ..............................................................34
12. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................34

13. The Connétable of St. Brelade:......................................................34
14. Senator A. Breckon:.................................................................34
15. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................35
16. Deputy A.T. Dupre of St. Clement:..................................................35
17. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................35
18. The Deputy of Trinity : ..............................................................35
19. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf : ...............................................................36

PUBLIC BUSINESS - RESUMPTION..........................................................36

2. Rate Appeal Board: appointment of members (P.93/2011)............................36

1. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................36

1. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................36
   2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................37

3. Health Service Disciplinary Tribunal: appointment of Chairman and members (P.111/2011)..............................................................................39

1. Deputy I.J. Gorst of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security):....................39

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................39
   2. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................39

4. Draft Civil Partnership (Jersey) Law 201- (P.85/2011) ................................42

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................42

1. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................43
2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................43
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................43
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................44
5. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................44
6. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................45

2. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................45
3. Deputy M. Tadier (Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel - rapporteur):..........47

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................49
2. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................49
3. Deputy A.E. Jeune :.....................................................................50
4. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................50
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................50
6. Deputy I.J. Gorst : ......................................................................50
7. The Deputy of Trinity :..................................................................51
8. The Connétable of St. Mary:............................................................51
9. The Connétable of Trinity :..............................................................51
10. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................52
11. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................53
12. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:............................................................53
13. Mr. H. Sharp Q.C., H.M. Solicitor General: .........................................53

4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................54

1. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................56
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................57
3. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................57

5. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................57

5. Debt Collection Agencies: Establishment of a Working Party (P.102/2011) ..........59

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................59

1. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................60

2. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................60
3. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................60
4. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................60
5. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................61
6. The Connétable of St. Brelade:.........................................................61

2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................61

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................64 DOCUMENTS PRESENTED OR LAID........................................................64

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................64

6. Draft Education (Nursery Fees) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.86/2011)................64

1. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen (The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture):........64

1. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:..................................................................65
2. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................65
3. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................66
4. Deputy A.T. Dupre:....................................................................66
5. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................66
6. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................66
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................67
8. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................68
9. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................68
10. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:..............................................................68
11. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:..................................................69
12. The Connétable of St. Mary : ........................................................69
13. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................70

2. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................70

6.2.1 The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................71

3. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................72

1. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:............................................................74
2. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................74
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................74
4. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................74
5. Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement:.................................................75
6. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................75

4. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................76

7. Uplifts in Land Values: Land Development Tax or Equivalent Mechanism(s) (P.90/2011)...............................................................................80

1. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................81

1. Senator J.L. Perchard:..................................................................81
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................83

2. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................84

7.2.1 Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................87

8. Council of Ministers' meetings: public access (P.103/2011) ............................90

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................90

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur:.................................................................91
2. Deputy J.B. Fox of St. Helier:..........................................................92
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................92
4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................93

5. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................94
6. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................95
7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................96
8. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire: ...............................................................97
9. The Deputy of St. Mary:................................................................98
10. Senator F. du H. Le Gresley:........................................................99
11. Senator J.L. Perchard: ..............................................................100
12. The Deputy of St. John:............................................................100
13. Senator A. Breckon:................................................................101
14. Deputy G.P. Southern : .............................................................102
15. The Connétable of St. Lawrence:...................................................103
16. Connétable K.P. Vibert of St. Ouen:................................................103
17. The Connétable of St. Saviour:.....................................................103
18. The Connétable of St. Brelade:.....................................................104
19. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour : ................................................104

2. Deputy M. Tadier :....................................................................104

9. Migration and Population Policy: Review (P.104/2011)..............................109

9.1 The Deputy of St. Mary:..............................................................110

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................113

The Roll was called and the Deputy Greffier led the Assembly in Prayer.

Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier :

I notice that we have got 19 items of business left to complete this week and also 19 items of business laid down for next week. I was wondering whether the Chair of the P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedures Committee) had given any consideration at all to how we are going to get through this amount of business. We have important legislative matters to deal with and so I was wondering whether the Chair had given any consideration to that, how best to proceed to try and get through the important matters that we have to get through.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Apart from Members exercising the greatest self-restraint. Yes, Chairman?

Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary :

I have given a great deal of thought, worry and time to wondering how we will get through the business and I have to be honest, on past performance I honestly do not think we will get through all the business in the time allotted. I would like to set a marker in the sand. I did ask Members to let me know if there was any business they were willing to defer. I, for my part, will be moving back the Privileges and Procedures P.77 from the next sitting, hand-held devices, to show some, I hope, leadership and hope other people will do the same. I am always very keen that we follow the Standing Orders on lodging of business and taking of business wherever we can but this is an extraordinary situation and Members will have had circulated something from Senator Ozouf last night. Although I cannot speak for how Members will feel about it, it does seem to set the facts out. We have a lot of legislation that has been on the table for a long time that must go through and it seems to me that we need to give priority to that in the hope that, in the second half of each sitting, the rest of the business will be dealt with efficiently.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Chairman, I understand the Chief Minister wants to propose his nomination for the Minister for Planning and Environment and that there are a number of candidates for that post so that is bound to take some time. I wonder if it would be helpful if, early this afternoon, the Privileges and Procedures Committee might propose a revised consolidated agenda for the next 2 weeks?

The Connétable of St. Mary : We will do that.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Chief Minister, I understand you wish to make a nomination for Minister for Planning and Environment?

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

1. Election of the Minister for Planning and Environment

1. Senator T.A. Le Sueur (The Chief Minister):

Yes, having announced earlier in this sitting the resignation of Senator Cohen, I would now like to propose Deputy Robert Duhamel of St. Saviour as Minister for Planning and Environment. [Seconded] Are there any other nominations?

2. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :

I would like to nominate Deputy Noel from St. Lawrence .

The Deputy Bailiff :

Is that seconded? [Seconded] Yes, Connétable ?

3. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville : May I nominate the Deputy of St. Peter ?

The Deputy Bailiff :

Is that seconded? [Seconded] Are there any other nominations?

4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour : May I nominate Senator Francis Le Gresley?

The Deputy Bailiff :

Is that seconded? [Seconded] Very well. Are there any other nominations? All right, well as is the procedure set down in the Rules, the candidates are permitted to address the Assembly for up to 10 minutes and will then be questioned by Members for up to 20 minutes and while a candidate is speaking or being questioned, other candidates must withdraw from the Chamber to a place where they cannot hear the proceedings in accordance with Standing Order 117(6). The candidates will speak and be questioned in the order that they were nominated and, accordingly, I would ask Deputy Noel, the Deputy of St. Peter and Senator Le Gresley to withdraw as Deputy Duhamel was the Chief Minister's nomination and the first nomination. I give notice to all Members before they go, Senator Le Gresley, Deputy of St. Peter before you go and I am sure you will be able to advise Deputy Noel as well, that there will be a 9-minute warning bell sounded by the Greffier in pre- emptory fashion which will give you one minute's notice of the time when you are going to have to bring your remarks to a close.

5. Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour :

I am grateful to the Chief Minister for nominating me and would to thank him for his kind words. My interest in planning and environmental matters is well known by Members. Over these last 18 years as a Member of this House, I have amassed a sizeable amount of experience by sitting on numerous committees, all of which have particular relevance to the Planning Ministry function. I have sat on 3 Planning Environment Committees, 2 Housing Committees and Public Service Committees, as well as others. I have spent 3 years as the Chairman of the Environment Scrutiny Panel and our reports on the planning process and 2 reports on the design of homes were accepted by the Minister at the time and incorporated into his policymaking, in particular with design of homes in terms of space standards and further amenities. As Assistant Minister for the Environment for just over 2 years, I have dealt with a whole range of environmental responsibilities and I think I have done the job pretty well. I have also had the privilege to represent Jersey on environmental issues both with the British-Irish Council and with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and we have discussed, in Jersey's name, various things like climate change and energy and fishing agreements. Just recently, I chaired a Planning Improvement process which is on your desks at the moment, R.81, and the report was circulated yesterday and this report specifically was to review the new Minister's decision-making powers and perhaps to curtail them. Overall, I should say a few words about my commitment and underlying vision. I believe that a wise use of resources is the key to everything, sustainability in its true sense. I have a natural respect and support for the environment. I head the Ramsar Management Group. I support the French proposals at the moment for a marine nature park.

[9:15]

I support the coastal national park and I do give strong protection to our green zone. Much of the work that was undertaken by my department I had an input to for the Rural Economy Strategy which was to provide a sustainable countryside and access to that countryside. I also support high quality urban living, integrated planning, local masterplans, scrutiny reports, design of homes and,

in particular, innovative social housing. The Minister who is elected today will be in post for about 4 months and I think we all need to be realistic about what can be achieved. Over the next 4 months, these are some of the things that need to be finished before we can move on to do other things. In terms of environmental policy, there are 3 major ongoing projects that I am already closely involved with. A new energy policy is being developed that will help the Island fulfil its international commitments and we are aiming to publish this report for further consultation by September. I have also been working on our Air Quality Strategy and this should also be published before the election. With the Ramsar Group as Chair, we completed one management plan, another one is almost finished and that just leaves one final piece of jigsaw to be put in place. With the Island Plan, the main policies supporting the Plan were overwhelmingly approved by the States a few weeks ago. This was a tremendous vote of confidence in the Island Plan process and the hard work undertaken by the officers in its preparation. As Assistant Minister over the years, I helped to develop the policies behind the Plan and naturally would like to see them brought to fruition. On the Planning side, the biggest project is to ensure that the follow-up work from this Island Plan is undertaken effectively so that the new Plan is well bedded in by the end of the year. For example, the department has already started to draw up the Supplementary Planning Guidance notes and the Land Management Plans. Uniquely, I have been interested in Housing and over the last few years, I have visited several European cities and sponsored other Members' interests to see firsthand those housing programmes which are at the forefront of social and environmental sustainability. During those visits, I have talked to planners and architects to understand how it is possible to provide good quality and affordable  housing. I visited Vienna,  Stockholm, Copenhagen, Malmo and London, to name a few. We now have 2 years to deliver affordable homes or we will need to rezone more countryside and urban regeneration will have failed. In particular, we need to get agreement between the Planning, the Housing and the Treasury functions and Ministers to make sure that our commitments to provide affordable homes is quickly turned into reality. Many Members of the House have already put their names forward to help provide the political steer to assist this project. I want to make sure that more emphasis is placed on ensuring that planning applications give sufficient weight to the placing of the proposed development within the landscape context in which it sits. I think it is important that buildings are built to a good standard and good design principles applied but, as we live in a beautiful Island, it is also vitally important that the building does sit well within the landscape and complements its surroundings. This is an area that the department has not really done much with and it really needs to be turned around. One of the

key functions of the Minister for Planning and Environment is to take the final decision on planning applications of particular significance and he is assisted by the Planning Applications Panel. This panel plays an important role in considering complicated applications and as the new Minister I would hope that the existing Members would wish to continue with their current role. I have participated in planning decisions, both as a member of the previous Planning Environment Committees and Planning Applications Panels. I also attended U.K. (United Kingdom) Local Authority training on planning decision-making, something that is to be reintroduced by the department as part of the planning improvement process. I have a good working relationship with the senior officers in the Planning and Environment Department and also work well with the civil servants in both Housing and Transport and Technical Services. I will therefore be able to work effectively when dealing with planning applications over the short period of time. If returned to the House following the forthcoming October elections, I will seek nomination to continue as Minister for Planning and Environment and will then set out my policies for the next 3 years in greater detail. To sum up, I will end as I began. My interest and experience in Planning and Environment is well known. I am prepared to devote all of my energies to the effective running of the Environment Department for the next 4 months. I hold my opinions honestly and openly and if elected, I will serve the public of the Island to the best of my ability. I ask for the support of this House.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Thank you. The time is now open for questions.

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

I wonder if the candidate could say what he sees as the most pressing matters that need reform within the Planning and Environment Department?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

I think we have already made some inroads into doing what I consider is vital. For years and years, we had planning. It was the Island Development Committee and specifically the functions of the department and committee were to really look at building and some building control, although in a previous form it was the Island Natural Beauties Commission. What I think is absolutely vital is that, having changed the name to the Environment Department, we seek to place Environment in built-up area context. So for my mind, that means ensuring that when buildings are built in the landscape they do blend in well and they are not seen as eyesores. Deputy Le Hérissier knows that we have set out the changes to the improvement process and we have got a measure of support from the previous Minister because the report is published in an R form so I think those 2 things will probably occupy a great deal of time.

2. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade :

If the candidate was elected Minister, how would he propose to unlock the logjam at either 12 Homebuy houses at Clos Vaze and does he think Homebuy and Deferred Payment has a future in affordable housing?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

To answer the second one first, I think Homebuy and Deferred Payment Schemes only represent one way of dealing with affordable homes and this is why the previous Minister, Senator Cohen, introduced within the new Island Plan another plank, if you like, to our policies to assist in affordable homes. What we are seeking to do is to unlock States-owned sites which in general have not, if we are all truthful, provided the best opportunities for the people who are living there and certainly have not given people the opportunities to purchase those homes at truly affordable prices. Homebuy, I think, as I say, just goes so far. Any Deferred Payment Scheme really still locks us into paying for other people's houses. I think I am committed to people paying for those houses themselves but the key to doing it is to ensure that they are really and truly affordable.

Deputy S. Power:

I asked him to comment on Clos Vaze, the logjam.

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Clos Vaze, the logjam, will be something that I will need to look at and, as mentioned earlier, there are some 10 or 12 Members who are seeking to assist in the formation of the policies for providing affordable homes and I am assuming that that will be one of the issues that will be closely looked at in our first meetings.

3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

Can the candidate explain what measures he will take to resist pressure from some Members who propose we build on greenfield sites?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

I think I am quite happy, as I voted for the Island Plan, to support the interest and the will of the House in this matter. By a very large majority, this House agreed to set out new proposals whereby we would seek to achieve affordable homes within the next 2 years which in itself would mean that we would not have to have a wholesale release not only of the few sites that were mentioned but indeed a whole set of other sites. Let us make no mistake; the sites that were being spoken about within the Island Plan are not in themselves sufficient to provide the affordable homes that we have all been talking about so extra fields and extra rezoning would be necessary. We have given ourselves 2 years. We are going to hit the ground running. This is why it is absolutely vital in my mind that we have a new Minister for Planning and Environment who is prepared to continue the work that this House has specifically endorsed.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , can I advise you that there are some 14 Members who have indicated they wish to ask you questions so you may wish to take that into account in the way you answer.

4. Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

With the ageing population, will the candidate give his support to the over 55s lifelong homes which follow the Joseph Rowntree model?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Absolutely, and I would probably go further than that to seek to improve on that model.

5. Deputy P.J. Rondel of St. John :

Will the candidate be moving away from iconic architects and if so what will he put in its place?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Iconic architects? The mind boggles. Do you mean architects with stature? I think the previous Minister was absolutely right in what he did to raise the bar for increased design standards but that said I think the general opinion is that there has probably been an over-reliance on a very small number of particular architects. I think we should seek to use all our talents locally before we go off Island.

6. Senator T.J. Le Main:

What would have been the 3 main policy matters or decisions made by the previous Minister that you would or could change and your reasons for doing so?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

In 30 seconds, that is a tough one. I am not sure I could single out any particular 3 but I think what I perhaps would have done would have been to have sought to engage an even wider consultation because I think the consultation that worked was not really done at the correct level. I think although it did engage interested parties, what it did not do was seek to lay down the opportunities for people to be engaged in their own micro plans or local level planning, as indeed the U.K. Designers and Builders is suggesting, and I think this is what people want. I would need to give that some thought. I think that is probably the biggest one and, because it is a big one, that probably counts for 2 and a half.

7. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

What does the candidate understand by sustainability?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Sustainability I think is wise use of resources and if we look at the natural world, everything that is produced by one thing is used as an input to another even down to dung from elephants. We have elephant beetles that build their homes in them and I would not be suggesting that we do the same thing but that is the point. Wise use of resources is really the key to sustainability.

8. Senator A. Breckon:

Does the candidate believe that it is beneficial for Ministers to have served on Scrutiny and if yes, why?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Yes, I do, I think Scrutiny provides a very important function as a training mechanism for new Members and indeed for old Members. I think one of the things that the old committee system did was to allow more people to be involved in the decision-making than the fewer persons that we have got under ministerial government. That said, I think there is a training function and Scrutiny is absolutely vital. I do not know whether we should make it compulsory though because many Members do not really go along with compulsory anything.

9. Senator J.L. Perchard:

The Planning Law makes much reference to the functions of, the responsibilities of, and reference to the Minister. In this respect, how does the candidate interpret or define "the Minister"?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

The Minister at the moment is the political representative of this House in the Island as supported by his officers and the other States Members.

[9:30]

10. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire of St. Helier :

Does the candidate believe that the 11 greenfield sites that were assigned development rights in P.75 before approval for increased density should be subject to the H1 and H3 Revision Policies?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Yes, absolutely, but not before we have attempted to solve the problem in the way we have all agreed.

11. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour :

Would the candidate give us his views on infilling where somebody's back garden is built on or, as I witnessed last night, 2 domestic garages destroyed and replaced with a house?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Infilling used to be known as a back land development. It is not something that is supported by the Planning Department or indeed planners anywhere. It probably goes against the concept of proper integrated planning and you tend to end up trying to squeeze in as many units as possible to make a hefty developer's profit, which is not advisable.

12. Deputy A.E. Jeune of St. Brelade :

Does the candidate consider the outgoing Minister's progress on reducing red tape, for example the recently published relaxation on additions like conservatories and small extensions, an appropriate way forward and does he have any thoughts on whether these can be extended further and if so, what are they?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

I think the General Development Orders relaxation was a good idea but it does carry within the policy a little bit of a sting in the tail which means that it has to be applied in a critical fashion. I will give one example. Although it is suggested that extensions will not require planning permission generally in most of the zones, we would not want to allow that particular relaxation to open the back door literally to encourage houses to turn into single houses, to double houses or triple houses. So I think, although it is beneficial because it means there is a lesser workload and the public are not paying for things that they do not generally need to, it will have benefits but we have to keep an eye on it.

13. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence :

What are the candidate's views on the architecture of the approved Portelet development?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Which one? There are several. I will give you my views. Overall, I think that the Portelet in my day was better than the Portelet of today, sadly. I think time is the great healer and that is why I think it is a fundamental plank of my particular take on things to seek to encourage a landscaping improvement which will at least begin to soften the somewhat strident kind of architectural forms which might look better in other places but certainly do not necessarily look best in this particular bay. The other thing that has tended to happen with Portelet is the use of the beach has tended to be squeezed out by the building of residential accommodation in the area and no tourism. It is something that we need to look at.

14. Deputy D.J.A. Wimberley of St. Mary :

The Energy Strategy, the Air Quality Strategy, the only report on the environment including peat coal and climate change and their impacts on States policies, where are they and what would the candidate do about it?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

In all 3 instances they are in the pipeline. They are about to be presented. They have all had their own individual problems from lack of staffing to lack of investment to late stage changes ,because in some instances we are dealing with the next 30 years and it is absolutely vital if you are going to be planning for that period of time that there is a short-term delivery of things which will have some effect on the long-term proposals. So the questioner can be comforted that that is one of the things that will be delivered within the next 4 months under my ministerial leadership.

15. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):

Could the candidate tell Members what his architectural vision is?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

My architectural vision. I do not particularly support any particular architect. I think I prefer more of an eclectic mix. I think for me it is not so much important as to have a building whose sculptural qualities are the only thing that we look at. For me, Planning and Environment is about the 2 other realms, which is how those buildings fit together within the landscape, as I have mentioned earlier, and secondly, it is the internal space and how well it is organised to suit the needs of the people who are living in it. I think for a long time we have tended to concentrate on the outside facades to the detriment of those other 2 areas.

16. Connétable P.F.M. Hanning of St. Saviour :

Could the candidate explain how he would split the decision-making process between the Minister and the Planning Panel?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

I think that has all been outlined in R.81. The intention is that the Minister will mainly deal with ministerial appeals through the hearing process and he will spend most of his time in securing the planning guidance notes and the local masterplans to ensure that planning is brought to the public in a wider form.

17. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Other than those contained in the Planning and Development Control document, what lessons does the candidate think we should learn from Reg's Skips?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

I do not think there are any other lessons other than the ones that the many bodies that have undertaken the review work have come forward with. In essence, I think this House, if it does support a policy to deliver in a particular area, really has to pull out all the stops in order to deliver it. I think perhaps with Reg's Skips, there was a failure with the left hand and the right hand perhaps and people with hands in the middle not necessarily all pulling together. For me, that is something that can easily be rectified if you put the right people together under the right leadership.

18. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

As Assistant Minister, the Deputy had a specific responsibility for the environment. Could he say what his top 3 personal achievements were in environment and how will he continue to support that there is a segregation of duties between Environment and Planning?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Again, things come in 3s. The speaker must be a civil servant. On the environment, I think because environment is not fixed, there are a whole load of things that take a very long time to put together, so for me, some of the highlights would be the work that is being undertaken at the moment to put tidal power and energy resources into place. The second thing is the work that has been undertaken by the Ramsar Group to pull people together,  in particular, to find ways to improve the marine environment in terms of perhaps creating an even bigger string to our bow in terms of diversification for the economy through sustainable fishing. As the third one, although we had some difficulties with staffing arrangements in terms of air quality, by individual members leaving the department to have children, which is to be expected, I think we are back on line now and the Air Quality Strategy will deliver in a new form the things that we have all been wanting to improve our air which is a right to breathe for every person.

Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

Were they his personal ones, his personal achievements?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

Personal? I do not go round claiming the limelight for the things that I do. It is not my style. I am not particularly keen on plastering my name over the J.E.P. (Jersey Evening Post) front page, that is assuming that they would want to put it there, and I would much prefer working in the background getting people to work together to deliver the aims which, in most cases, can only be delivered by working together. [Approbation]

19. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

Does the candidate support the provision of one parking space per unit in new developments within the ring road?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

I think elsewhere in the world it has gone down from 0.7 to 0.5, but I think in Jersey perhaps it is right to realise that we are a little bit special. Perhaps one might be the minimum to be going for. I think more importantly is to not take away a person's option to use the right form of transport for the right type of journey that he is going to make and I think it is wrong to try and use the planning mechanism to limit the number of cars and force people on to buses or whatever. I think a better way is to encourage them to use the right form of transport for the right distance they are going to travel so you walk walkable distances, cycle cyclable distances, take the bus for the bus distances. We have not got a train so you cannot do that and if you need to use a vehicle, a car-type vehicle, then make sure that it is one of these cleaner versions and you do not overuse it.

20. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

What percentage of the department's budget was cut in the C.S.R. (Comprehensive Spending Review) proposals and how damaging was that, in your view?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

That is a bit of a difficult one because, as a team player, as the Minister for Planning and Environment has to be, all departments were asked to offer up Comprehensive Spending Review savings. Our department is offering 13 per cent. It is at the forefront of the savings that have been put forward and if they were met at that level by all the other departments then indeed you would not need to go in some directions for the particular taxation measures that we have taken. We might have gone a little bit too far but only time will tell and certainly we have got a budget coming up. Everything is fixed for next year and as we get to the following year, I think these things will begin to be reappraised.

21. Senator A. Breckon:

Does the candidate believe he is a team player and what positively can he add to the deliberations of the Council of Ministers?

The Deputy Bailiff :

Well, the question was put but the time is now up, I am afraid. All right, the next candidate is Deputy Noel and perhaps I could ask Deputy Duhamel to withdraw and Deputy Noel to come in. All right, Deputy Noel, while you are getting your breath back, I can just confirm, because I think you were out of the Chamber on the last occasion, that you have 10 minutes and a bell will sound after 9 minutes, if you are still going, to warn you that there is one minute yet to come. There are 20 minutes thereafter for questions and your time now starts.

6. Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence :

In putting my name forward as Minister for Planning and Environment, I would first like to take the opportunity to thank Senator Cohen for all his work over the past 6 years.

[9:45]

In Planning, perhaps more than any other role, we cannot please all of the people all of the time. To many in this Assembly, the job is seen as a poisoned chalice. Senator Cohen has taken us through a period of great change and development. We have seen the integration of the Agriculture and Fisheries Department into the Planning and Environment Department; the introduction of the Eco-Active programme; the development of higher standards in architecture; the introduction of a Percentage for Art programme that has started to build a new chapter in our Island's heritage and I believe that this can be expanded to provide community-based benefits other than art. We have seen the construction of the Planning Applications Panel and the development of the Jersey Architecture Commission. Senator Cohen has recently delivered a change in the regulations that simplify planning permissions for minor works, making them cheaper for homeowners while maintaining quality. Above all, 2 weeks ago we collectively delivered a new Island Plan together with the North of Town Masterplan to see us through the next 10 years. The chalice, therefore, has been turned into a cup and that cup is more than half full. If elected, I intend to continue with these developments and take them on to a new level. During my time in the States, I have applied the same principles of hard work, integrity and rigorous delivery as I have throughout my professional life. I have spent over 20 years in the finance industry, both as a partner in a firm of chartered accountants and as a director and shareholder in a number of trust companies. This is important because the implementation of that key document, the Island Plan, needs someone who will listen,

who will act with integrity and someone who will deliver, someone who will bring the different elements and strands of this Assembly together and weave them into a workable solution for all Islanders. As for my green credentials, my proposition was one of the very first to be approved by the Eco-Active Standards and my family had started reducing, reusing and recycling long before 1999 when we made a Millennium pledge as part of the Channel Television celebrations for the Millennium. I want to go further. I think it is important for all of us to see Jersey's environment holistically. The department has a task of overseeing our Island environment, the air that we breathe, the water we drink, the sea that we bathe in and the places where we live and work. Together, these make up our environment. They are what makes Jersey special. They are our U.S.P. (unique selling proposition) in an ever-increasingly competitive world. However, I believe now that we have to concentrate on delivering affordable homes but to do so in an imaginative way, embracing new technologies which help reduce the cost and increase the environmental qualities of the homes that we build. Indeed, I have had some experience in building an eco home and in doing so I have proved to myself that it need not be more expensive, it just needs to be better. It is only natural that young Island families want to take those first steps on to the property ladder and that we, as their elected representatives, should assist them in doing so. This Assembly's view is that affordable homes must be delivered on brownfield sites to protect our countryside and prevent rezoning of greenfield sites wherever possible. That is a commitment I first made in 2008 in my manifesto and I will honour it. We need to look at using States-owned land to deliver affordable, environmentally friendly homes. This has to be included in our consideration of the H1 and H3 Supplementary Planning Guidelines, ensuring that the accommodation is of a high standard, providing lifelong homes with adequate amenity space for all ages to enjoy. Of course, this is not my task alone. The delivery of affordable homes is in partnership with the Minister for Housing and the Minister for Treasury and Resources and, most importantly, the Constables. They have their part to play as well. It is therefore my intention to continue with the group of Members who have expressed a wish to participate in delivering these S.P.G.s (Supplementary Planning Guidelines) and indeed I would welcome any other Members who have an interest in this in joining these political discussions. We will also need to involve the professionals outside of this Assembly in delivering these ambitions and I would welcome the involvement of the Association of Jersey Architects and the Jersey Construction Council, both of whom will be vital in a successful delivery of our built environment. Like most Members, I stood for election to make a difference and this is my opportunity to do just that. The Minister for Planning and Environment has a huge responsibility for overseeing environmental development of our land and of course it is not an easy job and no job that is really worthwhile ever is. Advice needs to be sought, people's feelings need to be considered but in the end action needs to be taken. I now have the opportunity to firsthand combine my business knowledge with the executive experience I have gained over the past 2 and a

bit years as Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services and in Treasury and Resources but, of course, the Minister for Planning and Environment cannot act in isolation. To ensure an open and transparent planning process, planning decisions must be taken, in my view, by a Planning Applications Panel continued, hopefully, to be chaired by the Constable of Trinity . I would like to see this panel's area of remit increased to look at all appropriate planning applications. This will leave the Minister to be involved, along with others, in the appeals process and if elected, I propose to bring forward a Green Paper to make the appeals process simpler and more accessible by the end of this year. I will support the officers in their current drive to improve the I.T. (information technology) systems in the Planning Department, to allow applications to be made on line and plans to be viewed at the click of a mouse. Make no mistake, as an Assembly, we have a direct responsibility to take forward the decisions made during the Island Plan debate and turn them into reality. I am here today because I believe I understand what this Assembly wants and I believe I have proved I have practical management and personal experience to make it happen. I could hit the ground running to deliver before December in 3 key areas and they are the delivery of the H1 and H3 S.P.G.s, a Green Paper on the reviewed appeals process and the delivery of the enhanced I.T. systems. The policy is set. What we need now is for someone who will listen, who will act and who will deliver and I am asking Members to give me the opportunity to do just that.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Thank you. The question time will now start and I call on Senator Le Main.

1. Senator T.J. Le Main:

What were the 3 main policy matters or planning decisions made by the previous Minister that he would or could change if he could and his reasons for so doing?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

That is a good question, 3 ones that I would change. It was in the remit of the previous Minister for Planning and Environment but it would have been nice to have done something different, report it, but again that was not in his gift. I would have liked to see things progress a bit more swiftly in redeveloping our town and, thirdly, I wish we would have had more affordable homes sooner.

2. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

Would the candidate be willing to build on more greenfields if it meant the Island could attract more 1(1)(k)s as a result? [Aside] [Laughter]

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Oh, that is an easy one. Definitely not. I have been consistent throughout in my manifesto in 2008. If we have to build on greenfields, it is after we have developed every brownfield site and redeveloped the existing urban areas that we have. Greenfields, in my view, are the last resort and to be used purely for a form of social housing, be it Homebuy version whatever it will be, be it social rented houses or be it just normal first-time buyer homes but certainly not for 1(1)(k)s, no matter how much I like them.

3. Deputy S. Power:

How would the candidate deal with the logjam that is the 12 unallocated Homebuy houses at Clos Vaze and how would he propose to advance the Homebuy Shared Equity Deferment Scheme and give his views on those schemes?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I will deal with the second point first if I may. The Homebuy scheme I think we need to get a group of us together to come up with something that is more palatable so that is how I would deal with that one. In regard to the logjam of those houses on the outskirts of St. Helier, to be honest with you, I do not know the details so I really cannot answer that but obviously I would be happy to get those details if I was elected and to sort out those issues.

4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

What thoughts does the candidate have on the structure of the Environment Department at Howard Davis Farm, in particular the split responsibility for Agriculture and Fisheries?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I am not particularly happy and I know there are plans already in place but I think the 2 sides of the department, the Planning and the Environment Department, should be under one location. They should be working together with lots of synergies and cross-fertilisation of ideas and it would be a good thing. In regard to the difference between Agriculture and Fisheries, there is always scope to hopefully not rearrange the deckchairs but trying to eke out a more efficient way of working.

5. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

My question on greenfield development has been asked so I will ask another question. What personal qualities does the candidate believe he has that he will deliver the H1 and H3 policies within the 4 months he will be in office?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I think I have covered that in my speech in many respects. I am prepared to listen. I will take on people's other ideas and together collectively I think we can come up with a solution in the timeframe. I only make promises that I believe I can keep. That is one thing that I have had throughout my life so if I say that I can produce this by the end of the year, then I truly believe I can do that.

6. Senator A. Breckon:

Does the candidate believe that it is beneficial for a Minister to have some direct experience serving on Scrutiny and if not why not?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

To be honest with you, Senator, I do not know the answer to that because I have not served on Scrutiny so I do not know if it would be beneficial or not but I have spent a lot of time of my life as a non-executive director of various organisations and that is a similar role in many respects. So, yes, I do think it is important that whoever is Minister has experience in questioning and probing and getting at the facts and the details.

7. Senator J.L. Perchard:

The Planning Law makes much reference to the functions of, the responsibilities of, and how matters are referred to the Minister. I note that during his speech the candidate said that the Minister for Planning and Environment cannot act in isolation. Therefore I am interested to know how does the candidate interpret or define "the Minister"?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I define the Minister as the principal person heading up the group that sets the policy. We are here as politicians to set policy and I will leave it to the managers to manage. They have got to be held to account but I leave it to them to manage. I hope that answers the Senator's question.

8. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

How will the Deputy cope with the perceived conflict arising from his membership of S.o.J.D.C. (States of Jersey Development Company)? For example, suppose, theoretically of course, it appears that S.o.J.D.C. is pushing for its planning applications to get priority. How will the candidate deal with this?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Firstly, if I was elected I would no longer be a States Director of S.o.J.D.C. Secondly, I believe that the majority of planning applications  should go via the Planning Applications Panel and hopefully by the end of the year we will have a Green Paper that would make the Minister's role more that of chairing an appeals process. We do something similar in Health and Social Services in some areas where, for example, on the overseas patient policy, I sit as Assistant Minister with finance officers and particular clinicians and we look at cases where people are looking to seek access to our services. If those individuals do not like the decisions that we make they then have the ability to go to the Minister as a form of appeal.

9. Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

My H1 and H3 policy questions have been answered so I would like to ask does the candidate believe that the role of a Minister, particularly Planning and Environment, should be held by somebody on an Island-wide mandate?

[10:00]

Deputy E.J. Noel:

In an ideal world, I do, but in an ideal world, you would have at least 20 Senators because in an ideal world, Ministers would be Senators and the heads of Scrutiny would be Senators. We are not in an ideal world. For some reason, we have reduced the number of Senators from 12 to 8 so I cannot see how it would work. What is more important is that people have got the right skills to be Ministers and not their title.

10. The Deputy of St. John :

As accountants are renowned for not being good businessmen [Aside] [Laughter] what experience can the candidate bring to running a department so diverse as Planning and Environment?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Firstly, the Minister does not run the department. The Minister sets the policy; the managers run the department. Some accountants are better businessmen than others are.

11. The Connétable of St. Lawrence :

It is interesting that the candidate just mentioned policy because he touched on that a lot in his speech. I would like to know his view on architecture and the architecture of the Portelet development.

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I am quite open-minded to architecture. I believe traditional buildings are suitable in the right setting. I believe modern buildings are also suitable in the right setting. If my Connétable was going to push me on an answer on Portelet, I believe it is a stunning building. It is not necessarily in the right place in my opinion [Laughter] but it is a stunning building.

12. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier :

What would the candidate do as Minister to take forward in some practical way the North of Town Masterplan which took so many years to develop?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Where we can move forwards is on the States-owned sites and I would work closely with my colleague the Minister for Treasury and Resources and my colleague the Minister for Housing because I think the States have to lead by example and we have to develop our own sites first and encourage private developers to do their bit as well in the longer term but I think the States should lead.

13. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

What is the candidate's opinion on infilling where people's gardens or sometimes their garages are sold off for development?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I just built a house on an infill area so I cannot really say anything against that. In the appropriate setting, it is the right thing to do but you have to look at these things on a site-by-site basis.

14. Deputy A.E. Jeune :

Does the candidate consider the outgoing Minister's progress on reducing red tape an appropriate way forward? For example, you can put up a shed, a conservatory, a small extension. Does he have any thoughts on whether these can be extended further and if so, what are they?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

The latter part of the question I would like to answer first. We have just in the last 2 weeks had a relaxation of the planning application process for minor works. I would like to see that bed in. I would like to see how that works and then make a decision on whether or not it needs to be enhanced or changed in any way.

15. The Connétable of St. Brelade :

Will the candidate elaborate further on the answer he gave to the Connétable of St. Lawrence regarding his vision with regard to architecture in Jersey?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I am vision neutral in that. I believe that what we need to have and what we have got are excellent architects in the Island now. I do not believe that the Minister for Planning and Environment should really express a bias one way or the other. We need to build appropriate buildings in the appropriate setting.

16. Deputy D.J. De Sousa of St. Helier :

What does the candidate consider to be suitable density in town?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I do not know the exact figures of the town site, but at the end of the day we need homes that people are going to want to live in and stay in for an extended period of time. So, for example, if we are looking at one-bedroom homes for the elderly, I do not think there should be one-bedroom homes. I think they should be one and a half bedroom homes to allow for the latter part in life if they maybe need a carer to come and stay with them during the night. So it is a difficult question to answer in terms of the numbers because I do not know the numbers but I believe that people should live in homes that they can stay in lifelong.

17. The Deputy of Trinity :

With an ageing population, would the candidate give his support to the over 55s lifelong homes which follow the Joseph Rowntree model?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Yes, I would but I would try and extend it because it should not necessarily be cut off at 55. I think lifelong homes are lifelong homes and I do not think there should be any necessarily minimum age limit because some people may need adaptable suitable accommodation at a much earlier time than that.

18. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

It was mentioned earlier about the problems with Homebuy and there is apparently a logjam in a few houses outside St. Helier. Could the candidate assure this House that he would not proceed along the old lines of the Homebuy Scheme which potentially lost the taxpayer millions of pounds?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I have already given a commitment that I think that the next Homebuy Scheme needs the input of Members of this House to work together to come up with something that picks up from the lessons that we have learned from Homebuy 1 to ensure that going forward we have a mechanism to get families into partly home ownership.

Deputy J.A. Martin:

Under the last Homebuy Scheme, it was not brought back to this House. Would he commit to bring the Homebuy Scheme back to this House?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I believe there already is a commitment to bring back the Supplementary Planning Guidelines in that area and, yes, I think it does have to come back to this House.

19. Connétable J.L.S. Gallichan of Trinity :

Does the candidate agree with me that there are too many small one-bedroom flats being built in St. Helier ?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I do not know the exact numbers of how many are being built but I do not think we should be building just one bedrooms. We should be building, as I have mentioned before, at least one and a half bedrooms to provide people with that bit more space so they can live a more fulfilling life, to be honest with you, because we spend a lot of our time in our homes and they need to be appropriately designed.

20. The Connétable of St. Saviour :

Could the candidate explain how he would resolve the conflict that we have got in the Island Plan with the aspiration of raising architectural standards but increasing exemptions and therefore reducing control on small extensions?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I have not studied the new small extensions in detail but I believe there are criteria in there to protect listed buildings and buildings that are of architectural merit. I think it is quite appropriate that people can change their windows or can convert a garage without seeking planning permission. I think it is a sensible way forward. Maybe at some point after the relaxation is bedded in we could see maybe if it needs revising in any way, perhaps involving the Parish Constables in a district or perhaps not.

21. Senator J.L. Perchard:

The candidate said in an earlier answer that, and I quote: "The majority of planning applications should go by the Planning Applications Panel." Can he clarify what he meant by this specifically? Does he intend to intervene to determine certain applications and if so, why?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

In an ideal scenario, I would see the Minister to act as heading up a group of people as an appeals process, because at the moment we have a system where it is almost a quantum leap between the planning application going in and asking for reconsideration and then your only real course is the Royal Court and there needs to be something in between that that is accessible. So I would prefer to see the Minister involved in that role and not getting involved in specific applications.

Senator J.L. Perchard:

I will vote for the candidate if he answers my question. Does he intend to intervene to determine certain applications?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I thought I made it clear. My intention would be not to intervene wherever possible but we have to move between from now until the Green Paper turns into a White Paper to get the planning application and planning appeal process set up. So there may be circumstances between now and then where the Minister, for whatever reason, has to get involved but it would not be out of choice.

22. The Deputy of St. John :

Will the candidate be moving away from the iconic architecture that we have seen under the former Minister for Planning and Environment and if so what will he put in its place?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I believe that iconic architecture or whatever you want to call it, I believe architecture needs to be good design and it is fundamentally I think that is what has been achieved over the last 6 years. I believe that our local architects are producing good designs. I think it was 3 weeks ago that we had Architecture Week. I do not know how many Members took the opportunity of going down to Liberty Wharf and seeing the displays that our architects had produced. They were outstanding. We have some good architects in Jersey. We should celebrate that and continue to encourage them to produce buildings that not only we like but future generations will like.

23. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Does the candidate approve of the suggested plans for the Esplanade Quarter and the Waterfront and what planning impact does he think it will have on the remaining part of town?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I broadly support the Esplanade Quarter. I believe that it should be done in phases and not in one big development and so I would like to see us move on the Esplanade Quarter with the first phase.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

The impact on the remainder of town?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

The impact on the remainder of town is going to be difficult to establish but I believe that our finance sector will drift towards the Esplanade. This will allow us to redevelop properties that they vacate maybe for other uses or maybe for secondary office space. I think each building as it becomes available will lend itself one way or the other.

24. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

Does the candidate support the provision of one parking space per unit in new developments within the ring road?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Even if people live in town, they are likely to have a car and I would prefer to see them park that off the street.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , we will never know, at least not today. [Laughter] I will now ask Deputy Noel to leave the Chamber and the Deputy of St. Peter to be called.

Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

In the intervening period, could I ask you a question, Sir?

The Deputy Bailiff :

This is not Question Time, but yes.

Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

I wonder if you might give some thought about the proposed phased development of the Waterfront? [Laughter] We recently had a decision by the Assembly that we would not proceed with the phased approach from a proposition that was tabled by the Deputy of St. John and through States of Jersey Development Company, we have seen a preference to advance Phase 1 and I am wondering what procedure needs to be in place before that can approved?

The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , that has come completely out of left field. I do not think it is appropriate that I make any comment this morning and, if I may say so, that is a political statement put into a question which I do not feel able to answer. I am sure it is a matter that can be dealt with at a later stage.

[10:15]

Deputy P.V.F. Le Claire:

It is a matter of procedure, Sir. I am asking your opinion as to whether it should be done or not. I am asking what procedure needs to be in place before anybody can given that we have had a proposition approved, I am asking what the process is.

The Deputy Bailiff :

With a little notice and bringing me up to date with all the various points involved then I would no doubt deal with it in Chambers if you ask me to do so and I am not prepared to do it just now. The Deputy of St. Peter has returned to the Assembly to make his address. You have 10 minutes, Deputy . After 9 minutes, the Greffier will ring the bell which signals that you must stop in the minute thereafter, so would you please start.

7. Deputy C.H. Egré of St. Peter :

I address this Assembly to submit my case for being entrusted with the responsibility in the role of Minister for Planning and Environment. I am nearing the end of my third term as a States Member. During my first 3 years I served as a member of both the Home Affairs and Harbours and Airport Committees. I hope that Members who were in the Assembly at that time would agree that I played an active and positive role, both in committee and as a representative in the public arena. During the last States sessions I was Vice Chairman of the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel and served on sub-panels dealing with the siting of telephone masts, proposed sale of the Jersey College for Girls' site, migration and also chaired the panel reviewing the proposed setting up of the Jersey Enterprise Board. I think I chaired that on 3 occasions. In addition, I also served as Vice Chair of P.P.C. More importantly, since 2007, I have served on the Planning Applications Panel. I now serve, as you know, as the Assistant Minister for Planning. I have always seen my role as a fulltime States Member and I remain free of any other external commitments, other than to those charities and organisations that seek only to provide support and care for residents in our Island. I have stated publicly that to take on this role at the present time is a very important task. It is not something I am entering into without a great deal of thought and confirmed support from my family members, members of the public and, indeed, colleagues from within the Chamber. I therefore offer my commitment to the task as Minister and if chosen by my colleagues for this post I will give it my full attention. Some sections of the media, and indeed some colleagues, have described the Planning and Environment service portfolio as a poisoned chalice. I do not believe this. I believe that this does a disservice to those who so diligently work within the department to ensure that both our built and natural environments are safeguarded for future generations. We have just completed 2 weeks of close debate with regard to the Island Plan. The outgoing Minister leaves us with that legacy. Furthermore, he leaves us with the legacy of his Eco-Active stance, the fact he has raised the bar with regard to development of architecture and also the sustainability of our housing stocks. I have, as mentioned earlier, served on the Planning Applications Panel and that has given me huge experience with regard to how Planning and Environment work. I have to say that should I take on this role as Minister, I will be fully supportive of the Planning Applications Panel's role. I also feel that that role should be extended because it is my view that the Minister should hold a few yards back from the actual process of agreeing with a particular plan. Adding to that, it brings me to the point of appeals. By doing that, the Minister is in a position where he can

be first call on appeal, which is a very cheap way of dealing with an issue. Having taken on the role as Assistant Minister, I did get involved with a direct appeal which came to me and I reviewed it and on that particular occasion went against the views of the panel and that was based on information which was discussed within the department with the Chief Executive and it was agreed that possibly inappropriate advice had been given to the panel at that particular time. I have made a point over the last few months of making close contact with all the staff in the Planning Department. Coming from a military background as a Squadron Leader, I have been posted to look after staff, to lead staff, and I hope I have shown that skill over the last few months. Apart from the view of being an action man as a military man, hopefully in that 3 months, I have been a man of action. One of the things that I found which saddened me is that part of the town regeneration, mainly the Charing Cross area, had been on the backburner for 15 years. I can tell you now that particular development is on the front burner and is boiling up well. In fact, I had a meeting last Friday at the Planning Department with the Channel Island Co-operative and department officers with the intention possibly of bringing a plan forward by the end of August. This is an area which has been sitting, disregarded, as something of an eyesore in the town for a long time. Furthermore, in the last sitting, as you will be aware, the Deputy of St. Martin brought forward a question regarding the High Hedges Law. In answering those particular questions, I made it absolutely clear that I had instigated a review in the cost effectiveness of people having to pay a huge fee, the general public having to pay a huge fee to engage in serving them well with a particular law which should have been supporting them. I have also been involved with overseeing the current development of a computer system which I look forward to seeing developed within the Planning Department because at the moment we are sitting behind a technological curve. From a public perspective, I do feel the public should be able to access planning information and pass comment on planning applications using modern systems. In a former life, to use an over-worn phrase, I was a C.E.O. (chief executive officer) of a web development company so I am in the good position to look and make sure that what we produce is suitable for purpose. I have also been taking a keen interest in what goes on at the Environment Department. I have been asked a few weeks ago to oversee the review in the Met Office. I think that may have something to do with my past as a

professional pilot and professional air traffic controller. Again, as I mentioned earlier, the outgoing Minister has left us with the legacy of Eco-Active. I have been also involved in facilitating an engineer from the U.K. who has come up with what would appear to be an innovative way of saving energy with regard to lighting and has been involved in the lighting of the Millennium Dome. He has now met with officers of both departments, Environment and Planning, and also I believe T.T.S. (Transport and Technical Services). If, as is possible, the view is that it could give us a saving of up to 50 per cent on lighting energy bills, this has got to be reviewed in a positive light. In promoting the Eco-Active strategy, it is important that we educate our children and the Eco-Active element in training in schools is imperative in that it is educating our children in all the things that we are trying to succeed in doing now. Also the States may be aware, or not as the case may be, that there is a review of the energy waste being carried out, an infrared scan of the whole of the Island which is going to indicate where we are losing energy. This review hopefully will give us some ideas as to how we can put forward further energy saving processes. Hopefully, I will bring a cool head to this role, a non-partisan outlook to liaising with other departments and between departments  within  the  ministry. It  is time to start delivering the planning  and environment commitments to our Island and both the demands that it deserves. We must not fight about who is to blame for the past. I believe that I am the candidate who can achieve this without forgetting or failing to learn from the lessons of the past. The decision as to who takes on this very important role is now in the hands of this Assembly.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Very well, we come to questions which start now.

1. Deputy S. Power:

How would the candidate deal with what is perceived to be the logjam on the 12 unallocated houses in the Homebuy Scheme at Clos Vaze and could he express his views in terms of the future of Homebuy Deferred Payment and Shared Equity Schemes?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

I have some concerns about the way Planning interacts with Housing. One of the concerns that I have is that what we should see in the tin is what is written on the tin. I do feel that the strategy that sits around Housing within Jersey should sit firmly within the Housing Department. I feel that the Planning Department should be a facilitator in the way we produce houses.

2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

The candidate mentioned he was promoting the redevelopment around the Charing Cross Co- operative. Does this include all of the cottages and shop fronts in Dumaresq Street up to and including the Foot building?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

Part of the negotiations that went on with the Co-op and are still ongoing is that it is essential that the historical buildings in Dumaresq Street, Pitt Street and Hue Street are maintained and it is the Co-op's intention that all those buildings should be refurbished and that the Foot shop, which is loved by a lot of Jersey people, should be re-established and that the His Master's Voice sign should be redone on the wall. So in answer to the question, yes, they are part of the negotiations being tied down to the refurbishment of those buildings.

3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

Can the candidate explain what measures he will take to resist pressure from some States Members who propose we build on greenfield sites?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

The pressures were resisted very clearly during the debate of the Island Plan. As the questioner will know, the intention now is to develop States-owned sites and not greenfield sites. But going back to the point that I made earlier, it is, as far as I am concerned, for the States Assembly to decide what our requirements are for housing and should we not be able to facilitate the amount of housing required as directed by this Assembly, then obviously one would have to look in the long term at developing other sites, not necessarily greenfield.

4. Senator T.J. Le Main:

Can the candidate explain the 3 main policy matters or decisions that were made by the previous Minister that he would or could change and his reasons for so doing?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

I have said 3, so I go with number one. The possible insistence on having specific architects to develop specific sites. We have very good architects in Jersey and I think they are well capable of dealing with good architecture. The other policy would be the consultation with the Constables in what goes on in their parishes. There was talk of a possible veto that a Constable could have for what goes on in certain areas of development. I know I would not accept a veto but what I would say and move from where St. John has gone, it would be important and I certainly would take heed of what the Constables have to say with regard to developments within their own parishes.

[10:30]

5. The Connétable of St. Lawrence :

The candidate mentioned that Senator Cohen has raised the bar on architecture. My question is: did he do so at Portelet and, in the candidate's view, what development has the greatest merit under the former Minister if Portelet does not?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

I like the last comment: "if Portelet does not." I have my own view of Portelet, which would not coincide with the view of the outgoing Minister. The argument that has been made by him has been very well rehearsed and we all know it: "It is better than what was going to be there before." I do not regard that, necessarily, as a good argument. Also, the other argument was used that it was developed by an architect of great fame. Again, I have made the point as to where I regard that. The question of what would I see as an example of good development: well, I can tell you lots of examples of what I do not see as good development and I think you could list them for me. The development on the Waterfront, which I regard as positive at the moment, is the one that is being carried out on Castle Quay. I have had a look around that. That is a very good development and I would see that as a very big positive. The building that sits beside it, I will make little or no comment on. I also like the El Tico development. I have made a joke about the view of the back end of it, but that is one of my jokes. It is nicely designed, serves us well and, I have to say, I go there very often.

6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Can the candidate give us his views on what he sees as any reform or change that is needed in the Department of the Environment and refer particularly to the management of agriculture and fisheries?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

At the moment, within the department, there is still an active research element and, I have to say, I did go up there yesterday to have a look at what was being done. One of the things that they are looking at that, being a former farmer's son, I found of most interest was their work on eelworm; the fact that they are creating plants now that make out they are potatoes but they are not. If they plant these out in a nearby field the eelworm will go to the root system but will have nothing to feed on and it reduces the level of eelworm. So the agricultural is moving forward. When it comes to fisheries, I know that an awful lot of work has been done with the Fisheries Department to get statistics and I think, from the quote I had yesterday, over 30 years of statistics of how the fisheries are developing. Certainly with the increase in quality of our ore supplies around the shores, it would appear that our fish stocks are improving and certainly the lobster catch is getting a lot bigger, but there is no definitive scientific proof that that is caused by the better waters.

Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Are there any proposals for reform of that particular side of the department?

The Greffier of the States (in the Chair):

There are a lot of Members waiting. I think we should move on.

The Deputy of St. Peter :

Just a quick answer to that one because the question was asked; having discussed it, I do not see any need for any major reform in what they are doing at the moment.

The Greffier of the States (in the Chair):

There are a lot of Members waiting, Deputy . Perhaps you could try to be slightly more concise.

7. Deputy D.J. De Sousa:

I was very excited to hear the candidate stating that, at last, Charing Cross will move on and those wonderful properties renovated. I wonder if the candidate could state what he would consider is suitable density in town?

The Deputy of St. Peter :

I do not wish to keep ducking the issue, but I will because I still believe that the density is a housing issue. The quality of housing for our people should sit firmly in the hands of the Housing Department. As Minister,  if I were to have that position, I would be there to facilitate that requirement. At least now we are looking at buildings and rooms that are of a size plus 10 per cent of minimum. I do not like people saying: "plus 10 per cent of minimum." It does not do any good at all. I want to know what Housing wants and I want to be a facilitator for those functions.