States Meeting Transcript - 12th June 2012

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 12th JUNE 2012

QUESTION TIME................................................................................6

1. Written Questions........................................................................6

1. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING A LONG-TERM TAX POLICY....................6
   2. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING A REVIEW OF THE STATES HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENT. ..............7
   3. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE SUSTAINABILITY OF THE PERSONAL TAXATION SYSTEM IN JERSEY. ....................................................7
   4. BY DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE IMPACT OF CHANGES TO PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SECTOR RENTAL SUBSIDIES. ..................................................................8
   5. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING HER RECENT HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES WHITE PAPER.............................................................9
   6. TO THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES BY DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER .........................................................11
   7. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING POSSIBLE HEALTH HAZARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THE USE OF WIRELESS INTERNET CONNECTIONS......14
   8. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING IT LINKS BETWEEN GENERAL PRACTITIONERS AND THE GENERAL HOSPITAL................................15
   9. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME

AFFAIRS REGARDING THE FUNDING OF VOLUNTARY ORGANISATIONS...16

10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING PLANS FOR FURTHER ECONOMIC STIMULUS OTHER THAN WITHIN THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY.......................19
11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE WAITING LIST FOR ELECTIVE SURGERY.............................................................................19

2. Oral Questions...........................................................................21

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the outcome of the genetically modified Jersey Royal potato experiment. ....21 Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour (The Minister for Planning and Environment):.........21

2.1.1 Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................21

2. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Chief Minister regarding delays in introducing Vulture Fund' legislation..............................................................22

1. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier:......................................................22
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................22
   3. Connétable P.J. Rondel of St. John of the Chief Minister regarding the retirement of the consultant gynaecologist................................................................23 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................23

1. The Connétable of St.John:............................................................23
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................23

4. Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Chief Minister regarding the terms of reference for the historic abuse enquiry as proposed by Verita. ..........................................23 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................24

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................24
2. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour:.....................................................24
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................24
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................25
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:...............................................25
6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................25
7. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................26

5. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the 11 new companies in the oil, gas and mining sector in the Island and the residential status of their beneficial owners........................................................26 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................26

2.5.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................27

6. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the powers of the Financial Services Commission to protect the consumers of financial services and products and the reputation of the Island..................................27 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................27

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................27
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................27
3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................28
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................28
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................28
6. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................28
7. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................29

7. Deputy R.J. Rondel of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the introduction of revised licensing legislation. ........................................30 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................30

1. Deputy R.J. Rondel:....................................................................30
2. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................30
3. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................30
4. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:....................................................31
5. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................31

8. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding threatened strike action by bus drivers........................................31 Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services): .....31

1. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................32
2. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................32
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................32
4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................33

5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................33
6. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin : ........................................................33
7. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................33
8. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................33
9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................34
10. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................34
11. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................34
12. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................34

9. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the breakdown of new job opportunities in terms of high-value (professional and managerial) posts and those of lower value (clerical/manual)........................................34 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):.........................34

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................36
4. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................36
5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................36
6. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................37
7. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................37
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................37

10. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Social Security regarding the frequency of Long- Term Incapacity Allowance benefit payments..........................................38 Senator F. du H. Le Gresley (The Minister for Social Security): ..............................38

1. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................39
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................39
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................39
4. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................39
5. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................40

11. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the oversight of the States of Jersey Police. .................................................................40 Senator B.I. Le Marquand (The Minister for Home Affairs): .................................40

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................41
2. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :....................................................41
3. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................41
4. The Deputy of Grouville : ............................................................42
5. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................42
6. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................42
7. Senator L.J. Farnham : ...............................................................43

12. The Connétable of St. John of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding tenders for the scrapyard contract............................................43 Deputy K.C. Lewis (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):....................44

1. The Connétable of St. John : .........................................................44
2. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen : ......................................................44
3. The Deputy of St. Ouen:.............................................................44
4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:................................................................44
5. The Deputy of St. Ouen:.............................................................45
6. The Deputy of St. Ouen:.............................................................45
7. Senator L.J. Farnham : ...............................................................45
8. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................45
9. Senator S.C. Ferguson:..............................................................45

10. Deputy M.R.Higgins:............................................................45
11. The Connétable of St. John : ......................................................46
12. The Connétable of St. John : ......................................................46
    13. Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Minister for Housing regarding the provision of adequate safe play areas for children in States Housing developments............................46 Deputy A.K.F. Green of St. Helier (The Minister for Housing):..............................46

2.13.1 Deputy T.M. Pitman:................................................................46

3. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Minister for Social Security ............47

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................47 Senator F. du H. Le Gresley (The Minister for Social Security): ..............................47

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................47
   2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................48

3.2.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................48

3. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................48

3.3.1 Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................48

4. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................48
5. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................49

3.5.1 Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................49

6. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................50
7. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier:........................................................50
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................50

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................50
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................50

4. Questions to Ministers Without Notice - The Chief Minister..........................51

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................51 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................51

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................51
   2. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................51

4.2.1 The Connétable of St. John:............................................................51

3. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................52

4.3.1 Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................52

4. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................52
5. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................52
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................53

4.6.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................53

7. The Deputy of Grouville :...............................................................53
8. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................54
9. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................54

4.9.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................54

10. Deputy T.A. Vallois: ...................................................................54

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................55

5. Standing Orders: Answer to Questions (P.30/2012) ....................................55

5.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................55

1. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................57
2. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................57
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................58
4. Senator P.M. Bailhache : ................................................................60

5. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................61
6. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................62
7. Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary : ...................................................63
8. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................63
9. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................64
10. Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement:..............................................64
11. Senator L.J. Farnham : ...............................................................64
12. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:..........................................................65
13. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................66

6. The States Members' Review Body: Revised terms of reference (P.44/2012)..........68

6.1 Deputy M. Tadier (Vice-Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee - rapporteur): .........................................................................................68

1. Connétable M.P.S. Le Troquer of St. Martin:...........................................69
2. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:........................................70
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................70

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ....................71

7. Deputy M. Tadier (Vice-Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee - rapporteur): .........................................................................................71

1. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter:...................................................71
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................71
3. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................72
4. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................72
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................73
6. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................73
7. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................73

ADJOURNMENT................................................................................74

[9:30]

The Roll was called and the Assistant Greffier of the States led the Assembly in Prayer.

QUESTION TIME

1.Written Questions

1.1. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING A LONG-TERM TAX POLICY:

Question

Could the Minister advise whether he is continuing with a long term tax policy and, if so, could he provide an update on the progress made and advise when he envisages such a policy being lodged for debate by this Assembly?

Answer

The Minister confirms that there is an ongoing review of Jersey's long term tax policy. The principles of a long term tax policy were included in the Strategic Plan which has been approved by the Assembly. Those principles are

• Taxation must be necessary, justifiable and sustainable.
• Taxes must be broad, low and simple
• Everyone should make an appropriate contribution to the cost of providing services, while those on the lowest incomes are protected
• Taxes must be internationally competitive.
• Taxation should support economic development and social policy, where possible.

The principles of a policy should inform the detail of the tax regime. Our current regime broadly adheres to these principles but it is recognised that further work is needed, hence the establishment of a tax policy unit.

The Assembly has recently considered, fully debated and approved a number of core aspects of our tax system, namely:

• Retention of the zero/ten company tax regime
• Retention of the 20% rate of personal income tax
• Increase in the rate of GST

These form the basis of our tax regime. It is recognised that one area which has not been fully reviewed is property tax. A project to review the taxation of property development, investment and occupation will be started later this year with the aim of completing that review and reporting on the findings during 2013. Consideration will then be given to what changes may be appropriate for Jersey.

One of the key themes of the 2013 Budget will be "safeguarding revenues". Measures are being developed to strengthen the States' ability to ensure that taxpayers make an appropriate contribution to the cost of providing public services. This is likely to include restricting tax reliefs for companies and tightening the rules for non-resident landlords, while also consulting on extending the scope of 0/10 slightly.

2. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING A REVIEW OF THE STATES HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENT:

Question

Further to recent reports and, in particular, the Chief Minister's own comments regarding the need to review the Human Resources Department, could he advise, in detail, how he proposes to restore this vital department so that employees of the States of Jersey, the public and States Members can have confidence in the future of the Public Sector?

Answer

An effective Human Resources (HR) Function will be critical if Jersey is to successfully deliver Public sector reform. This will entail service redesign, workforce modernisation and cultural change. As identified in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report, investment is now necessary for HR if we are to have a modern and effective HR function which can lead public sector reform, and also deliver important essential practises such as performance management, succession planning, workforce planning, and the development for States Members and States employees. This will underpin the creation of confidence in the future of the Public Sector in Jersey

We intend to bring forward proposals in line with the strategic priorities as part of the Medium Term Financial Plan which will allow this essential investment to take place.

3. DEPUTY T.A. VALLOIS OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE SUSTAINABILITY OF THE PERSONAL TAXATION SYSTEM IN JERSEY:

Question

Given that the personal taxation system has come under immense pressure over the last 7 years following the decrease in corporation tax, could the Minister advise whether any work has been undertaken as to the sustainability of the personal taxation system in Jersey and whether there will be a requirement to re-align direct and indirect taxes in the future?

Answer

At its simplest, a sustainable tax system is one which raises sufficient revenues to meet expenditure. Jersey has put in place concrete plans to ensure that its budgets balance, through a mixture of spending cuts and managed increases in tax.

A sustainable tax system will also feature a balance between taxes on income, indirect taxes such as GST and social security. Before the introduction of 0/10, the Jersey tax system was unusually reliant on taxes from companies compared to other economies such as the UK or some of Jersey's key competitors like the Cayman Islands. In addition, approximately one-third of adults paid no tax at all. Independent economic advice recommended that Jersey should seek to broaden its tax base in order to ensure the sustainability of the regime. GST was identified as the most efficient way of raising revenues while also achieving the policy objective of broadening the tax base.

Care has also been taken to ensure that Jersey is able to offer a competitive tax regime in order to encourage economic growth. The rates of tax paid by individuals in Jersey compare favourably to other jurisdictions.

Because of the difficult decisions made by the States on both tax and spending cuts, Jersey is in a stronger position to deliver growth and secure the Island's economic future without any further significant changes to the tax regime. Nonetheless, the tax structure will continue to be reviewed on an ongoing basis to ensure that it is appropriate for Jersey. See the response to question 6916 for more details on the type of work being done.

4. BY DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE IMPACT OF CHANGES TO PRIVATEAND PUBLIC SECTOR RENTAL SUBSIDIES:

Question

Will the Minister explain the mechanism for "decoupling" the private and public sector rental subsidies mentioned on 29th May 2012 at his presentation of the proposals contained within the Housing White Paper (page 21)?

Does he consider that an analysis of the social impact of such a move is critical to a full understanding of his housing proposals and, if so, will he outline what analysis has been undertaken and if none, inform members when this will be undertaken and the results presented?

What is the net return to the Housing Department and the States Treasury of the financial changes proposed?

Do the figures contained within the White Paper result in a net £1.35million increase in funding maintenance and, if not, what is the gain?

Will the Minister provide a breakdown of the number of tenants who will pay the increased rents and contribute towards the additional £3.75million directly, giving details of family type and length of tenure, along with the fully worked transitional protection scheme showing timescales and means test levels?

Answer

Social housing rent policy will be the responsibility of the new Strategic Housing Unit. The Minister for Social Security is considering the most appropriate mechanism for setting the level of Income Support housing component in the private and public sector and will set out his proposals with regard to this in due course.

The White Paper "Achieving Decent Homes – An Affordable Housing Framework for the Future", currently out to consultation, sets out that the "current mechanism for setting housing benefit is unusual in that the arrangements link the amount of benefit paid to the fair rent cap within the social sector".

The Minister for Social Security has employed the Cambridge Centre for Planning and Housing Research to undertake a financial analysis of the options available for providing support for those renting in the private sector through income support.

The "Achieving Decent Homes" White Paper makes clear that the financial impact of implementing Fair Rent Levels in the States sector will result in an increase in rental income of approximately £11.25 million of which £7.5 million will be retained to protect those States Tenants on Income Support from the removal of their hidden rent subsidy. The net return to the Housing Department (and subsequently the proposed Housing Association) would therefore be up to £3.75 million once fully implemented. The impact within the Housing Trusts sector is not yet confirmed because I am awaiting the Trust's completion of 30 year business plans before this can be established.

The White Paper also makes clear that the annual return to the States from the proposed Housing Association would be maintained in real terms following a one-off increase to cover the additional cost of removing the hidden rent subsidy and adjustments for the management of any surpluses.

Once the Trust business plans are validated, and the Minister for Social Security has determined the most appropriate mechanism for setting the level of housing component in the private and public sector, the full funding picture will be known and we will then propose to present this to the States Assembly for their consideration.

An economic assessment of the proposals for States Tenants not receiving Income Support is underway to inform the development of the proposed means test which will assess the level of transitional relief that would be offered. Once this work is completed and the policy developed I will of course be happy to share this with States Members.

5. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FORHEALTHAND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING HER RECENT HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES WHITE PAPER:

Question

Would the Minister, in relation to her recent Health and Social Services White Paper, explain? –

1. (a) whether there are any plans to introduce payment for other services than emergency services and if so what are they?

2. what scale of charges are planned for emergency services?
3. where the papertalksof "bringing in more third party and private sector organisations", what services are under consideration for outsourcing and will this include "for profit" organisations?

2. (a) what strategic partners are under consideration for renal and oncology services?

(b) how the 5 objectives are to be delivered?

3. (a) given that Nursing pay and conditions and establishment were identified as issues in 2011, what progress has been made in mid 2012 and how is the £800,000 identified for 2012 to be used?

2. what additional or unfilled posts are to be recruited by the sums outlined under establishment for 2013, 2014 and 2015?
3. what improvements to nursing Terms and Conditions are envisioned for the £600,000 annual increases 2013 -2015?
4. what explanation is there for the differences in totals between the two tables of growth commitments shown (pages 29-30)?

Answer

1 (a) There are currently no plans to introduce additional payment for services. The only exception, as referred to in the White Paper, will be minor, non-emergency treatment for patients who attend the Emergency Department but should more appropriately be seen by a GP. Emergency care provided in the Emergency Department will remain free.

1 (b) The scale of charges for minor, non-emergency treatment provided in the Emergency Department is currently being considered but will probably be broadly comparable with GP's charges. The aim is to remove the incentive for patients to attend the Emergency Department, as opposed to their GP, for non-emergency treatment.

1 (c) More detailed information about potential outsourcing of services will be available

over the coming months as full business cases and detailed service specifications are developed. HSSD already outsources services to a range of providers in the third sector, private sector and the UK public and private sectors. It is envisaged this will continue and may expand.

2 (a) At present HSSD's renal unit links with Guys & St. Thomas' and our oncology unit with

Southampton. HSSD is however currently working to develop closer relationships with other providers and future strategic partnership/s may be tendered to ensure HSSD secures the best possible services for patients and best value.

2 (b) The five outcomes outlined on page 25 relate to service improvements that patients

will benefit from as strategic partnerships are progressed and refined. HSSD will work with partners to develop services specifications and standards that ensure delivery of those five outcomes, plus undertake associated monitoring.

3 (a) Recruitment of registered nurses and midwives remains a challenge for HSSD for a

multitude of well documented reasons including: cost of living and childcare; difficulty that spouses/partners have in finding employment; the working environment; outdated terms and conditions. In recognition of these challenges the States, on the recommendation of the States Employment Board (SEB), approved an additional £800k in the 2012 business plan. This funding has been used to tackle systemic problems with recruitment and retention including:

• revising existing pay structures, bringing them more into line with UK structures thus aiding the continued employment of approximately 36 registered nurses and midwives
• development of a new grade for the non-registered workforce, known as the Assistant Practitioner role, in order to facilitate on island recruitment
• development of an enhanced relocation allowance enabling externally recruited nurses and midwives to better manage the financial impact of relocation, which had previously presented a barrier off-island recruitment

• creation of 7 new full time nursing posts within Older Peoples Mental Health In patient services, benefitting patients and alleviating workplace pressures which were threatening HSSD ability to retain existing staff
• implementing - at the request of the nursing unions - a review of nursing pay based on "equal pay for work of equal value" in order to establish if further reform of pay scales is required
• supporting nurse and midwife recruitment campaigns both on-island and off-island.

Whilst it is currently too early to fully assess the impact of these changes on recruitment and retention, the feedback received to date from nursing staff has been positive.

3 (b) The nursing establishment costs as outlined in the first table on Page 30 of the White

Paper are for additional HSSD nursing posts and relate to existing unmet need. This continued investment will bring the ward area staffing levels into line with the recommendations set out in the nurse staffing review which was undertaken in 2008. This equates to approximately 40 new posts which are still outstanding despite the progress made in growing the nursing workforce since 2008.

This does not include the significant investment that will be also be required in order to recruit nursing staff to work within primary care and community settings, as per the overall vision set out with the White Paper.

3 (c) The terms and conditions funding stream will enable HSSD to continue to support

the schemes outlined in 3(a) above. This will obviously be subject to a review of their impact which might result in some of those schemes being modified or enhanced.

3 (d) The first table on Page 30 shows the agreed 2012 growth budget plus the in-

principle growth commitments for 2013 and 2014 as outlined in the States 2012 Business Plan. The 2015 figure, which represents a continuation of that growth profile, was not part of the 2012 States business plan but will included in the States Medium Term Financial Plan (MTFP)to be debated later this year.

The figures in the first table represented essential growth for existing core business.

The second table on Page 30 shows the additional funding required to deliver the priority work-streams set out in the White Paper. This includes significant investment in community based services to help ensure people are cared for in the most appropriate setting whilst relieving the escalating demand on acute care services. These figures will be included in MTFP, albeit there maybe with some variations between those outlining costing are further refined over the coming months.

6. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE FUNDING OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES' CAPITAL PROJECTS:

Question

Would the Minister, in relation to the recent Health and Social Services White Paper, advise –

1. what Health capital projects, if any, from the White Paper (totalling £20.4 million in the 3 years to 2015), he recommends should be included in the bids for capital expenditure?
2. what  explanation  there  is for  the  ability  of the Council  of Ministers  to fit  between  £27 million and £34 million in the States spending envelope with no increases in charges ortaxes in phase 1?
3. will there be cuts in other department budgets to accommodate this?
4. what growth projections in States revenues are built in to this plan? Answer

1. The Minister can confirm that the Council of Ministers is proposing to include all the Health capital schemes within the White Paper in the draft Medium Term Financial Plan as follows:

The £500,000 funding for Intermediate Care has been brought forward to 2014 in the MTFP from the total included for 2015 in the White Paper.

2. Commitments were made to growth for the Health and Social Services Department budget in the 2012 Business Plan. For ease of reference these areas for growth are set out in the table below.

The current draft of the Medium Term Financial Plan includes these committed growth items from the 2012 Business Plan in the base budget assumptions for 2013 to 2015.

In addition the Health and Social Services Department has made a number of growth bids to be considered alongside bids made by other Departments. These growth bids are listed in the White Paper and for ease of reference are shown below.

Additionally there are other growth bids that may directly benefit HSSD and these are as follows:-

The table on page 31 sets out the costs of delivering the service changes proposed in the White Paper. These are new/additional costs required to provide the services outlined. However, if the service changes are not approved, the pressure of the ageing demographic is likely to cause additional unsustainable pressure on, in particular, Hospital services over the period.

Drafting of the MTFP is consistent with the delivery of the business cases produced to plan and deliver the service changes described in the White Paper. This reflects the close working links between the Health and Social Services Ministerial Oversight Group and the drafting process for the MTFP. Subject to the States' approval of both the White Paper and the MTFP there is potential, by 2015, for an extra £28 million a year will be invested in the Island's Health and Social Services, with £25 million of this being additional funds provided within the MTFP. This is a substantial investment in these services and illustrates the Council of Ministers' commitment to delivering the Strategic Priority to "Reform Health and Social Services".

The numbers referred to on page 31 are taken from the proposed capital schemes as set out in the draft MTFP. While these capital projects will support the implementation of the White Paper, with the exception of £500k in 2014 these capital projects are not directly associated with service changes but rather reflect the need to refurbish existing estate in order to meet needs.

Preparation of the MTFP has involved careful balancing of expenditure against projected revenues. The Minister and the Council of Ministers are pleased to be able to present a draft MTFP that does not include any new taxes or increases in the rates of Income Tax or GST.

3. No department is suffering"cuts" in orderto fund growth in Health and Social Services. The amounts available for growth in departmental cash limits have been subject to a prioritisation process which may have meant some departments were unsuccessful in obtaining growth they were seeking. Aside fromtheplannedCSR savings no department has had its cash limit reduced. In fact all departments will now have guaranteed minimum budgets for a three year period oncetheMTFP is approved.
4. In the draft MTFP States revenues are forecast to rise from £639 million in 2013 to £700 million in 2015.

7. DEPUTY G.C.L. BAUDAINS OF ST. CLEMENT OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING POSSIBLE HEALTH HAZARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THE USE OF WIRELESS INTERNET CONNECTIONS:

Question

Given fears expressed in the past about possible health hazards associated with mobile telephone use, does the Minister have any such concerns regarding the increasing use of wireless internet connections and what research, if any, has been undertaken on this issue?

Answer

In 2007 the Health, Social Security and Housing Scrutiny Panel presented to the Assembly a report into the Perceived Health Effects of Mobile Phone Masts. The Panel concluded that procedures undertaken up to that point were an adequate initial precautionary basis on which to develop the establishment of additional mobile phone masts, but made recommendations to adopt an enhanced precautionary approach more stringent than that adopted by the UK. The recommendations made by the Sub-Panel to the Minister for Planning and Environment have been completed, namely, that all base stations are subject to a planning application to ensure compliance with internationally agreed emission levels, and that in the event that the base stations are found not to be compliant with the agreed levels, that the Minister can insist on their removal.

With reference to wireless internet connections, the report did comment (page 40) that the Sub- Panel were aware of an additional area of concern to the public, being the introduction of Wi-Fi technology. Finding 5 of the report indicated that "the Sub-Panel would encourage a further examination of any research into perceived health issues relating to emissions from such systems by the Department through relevant health professionals". The recommendation by the Sub-Panel on the need for further research into the area was directed to the Minister for Health and Social Services.

Since the 2007 report, the Minister for Health and Social Services has not given any evidence to the Minister for Planning and Environment to suggest that the increasing use of wireless internet connections has the potential for detrimental health effects.

8. DEPUTYR.G.LEHÉRISSIEROFST.SAVIOUROFTHEMINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING IT LINKS BETWEEN GENERAL PRACTITIONERS AND THE GENERAL HOSPITAL:

Question

When will the project to implement IT links between General Practitioners and the General Hospital be fully implemented and what has it cost to date?

Answer

There are currently three IT projects underway which, whilst they do not directly establish links between GPs and the Hospital, will enable those links to be introduction in the future. These include:

GP Central Server: This is an IT project led by the Social Security Department and funded via the HIF in accordance with propositions P36/2010 and P125/2010. The aim is to provide a central recording system for GP patient information which will also enable:

• a link between GP Practices and the GP out-of-hours service;
• gathering of statistical information about primary care and disease registers
• gathering of GP performance information as required as under the Quality Contract.

The GP Central Server is expected to "go live" by the end of 2012.

OmniClient Version 10:  This is software upgrade currently underway in the Pathology Department. It will enable integration of the existing pathology IT system with TrakCare - the new Patient Administration System. It is an enabling project for implementation of OrderComms (see below) and any future IT link to GPs.

OrderComms: This is a Hospital IT project that will commence shortly and will enable the electronic ordering of tests and electronic receipt of results between hospital doctors, the Radiology Department and Pathology Department. OrderComms, which is expected to be completed by summer 2013, is also an enabling project for any future IT links to GPs.

Once these projects have been completed and successfully bedded down, HSSD will consider options relating to the development of direct links between GPs and the hospital. As outlined in the White Paper there will be a cross cutting Technology workstream which will scope options and funding requirements related to the provision of IT infrastructure (Page 27 of White Paper)

In 2011 a trial was undertaken to see if pathology test results could be transmitted electronically between the Pathology Department and one or more GPs. This trial cost approximately £10k. A number of problems were encountered during testing that could have affected patient safety. Hence the project is not being progressed until the three enabling projects outlined above have been completed and until funding options have been considered as part of the Technology workstream.

9. DEPUTY R.G. LE HÉRISSIER OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING THE FUNDING OF VOLUNTARY ORGANISATIONS: Question

Which voluntary organisations receive funding from the Minister, what are the annual amounts and what policies and procedures are in place to ensure that the use of such funds accords with Departmental and States policies?

Answer

The table at the end of this answer details the voluntary organisations which receive an annual grant from the Home Affairs Department. The table shows the amount of the grant in 2011; how the organisations contributed to the achievement of the States strategic objectives; how they aligned, where appropriate, to Home Affairs Departmental policies; whether a Service Level Agreement (SLA) is in place; and the type of accounts produced.

All Grants made to voluntary organisations by the Home Affairs Department during 2011 were made in accordance with Financial Direction 5.4 – Obtaining Value for Money from Grants. It should be noted that the Financial Direction relating to grants has recently been reissued (April 2012) and is entitled Management of Grants (Financial Direction 5.5). Any future grants will be made in accordance with that Financial Direction.

Financial Direction 5.5 provides that all grants over £10,000 must be supported by a Partnership or Service Level Agreement which establishes and clarifies the basis of the partnership between the [Home Affairs] Department and the organisation concerned. It further provides that the Service Agreement will contain, as a minimum:

• Name of the grantee;
• Name of the grant scheme (where applicable);
• Purpose of the grant;
• States strategic aims and objectives supported;
• Amount of the grant;
• Payment terms and timing;
• Treatment of top-up grants;
• Arrangements for repayment of surplus grant monies;

• Explanation of the corporate governance framework;
• Explanation of disclosure of the grant(s) in the States of Jersey annual Accounts;
• Clear explanations of what each party is expected to provide, including any reports and/or statements;
• Any conditions attached to the grant and criteria for measurement of whether grant conditions have been fulfilled;
• Arrangements for repayment of grants in the event of non-performance or non-compliance;
• Rights of access for departmental officers and the Comptroller and Auditor General; Arrangements for the purchase and disposal of any assets to be acquired using the grant

The table indicates where Service Level Agreements or Partnership Agreements are in place.

Financial Direction 5.5 stipulates that in respect of grants between £25,000 and £100,000, unaudited, signed accounts must be provided within 6 months of the organisation's year end. In respect of grants of less than £25,000 an unaudited, signed Income and Expenditure Statement must be provided within 6 months of the organisation's year end. The table contains details of where accounts or income and expenditure statements have been received.

In addition, the Minister may make one-off grants in exceptional circumstances such as those agreed for Safer St Helier Community Partnership for the funding of the Q-Safe Taxi Marshal Scheme. (MD-HA-2011-0023 and MD-HA-2012-004 refer)

18

10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING PLANS FOR FURTHER ECONOMIC STIMULUS OTHER THAN WITHIN THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY:

Question

Will the Minister advise members whether he has any plans for further economic stimulus spending from additional tax revenues or departmental under spends to create and maintain employment other than within the construction industry and, if so, give details?

Answer

There is little doubt that conditions in the local economy have deteriorated further this year as a result of the fallout from the global recession and the ongoing Eurozone crisis. The Fiscal Policy Panel has been clear that under the current circumstances we are right to support £27m of additional housing capital expenditure. It is important to remember that this is not all we are doing - there are a further £27m of capital projects already planned for this year and £56m in 2013. These sums fund a number of large projects such as St Martin's school and the new Police HQ which will be brought forward in the next 12-18 months.

We are actively looking at what else we can do in this area to provide further support for local people and businesses and following the advice from the FPP that "it will be important to include sufficient flexibility in States' finances to undertake additional fiscal stimulus this year and next if necessary". Although in many cases we have supported the construction sector it is because the projects have met the 3 Ts (timely, targeted and temporary), have value in their own right, can achieve better value for money and indirectly help other sectors such as retail.

This is not all we are doing and on 1 June the Council of Ministers launched the new Economic Growth and Diversification Strategy which includes a £10m Innovation Fund and a growth bid of £3.5m for Economic Development which will be used to the benefit of all sectors and the economy as a whole.

In support of these strategic initiatives additional guidance has been prepared (currently in final draft) for those departments procuring goods and services that will allow the use of community benefits, for example targeted recruitment and training, to be included as part of the tender evaluation process and taken into account when awarding contracts.

In addition and in order to directly address the need to provide sustainable work opportunities for all Islanders, the Employment Grant Scheme was launched in late May. The scheme is the latest initiative from the cross-departmental Back to Work team and has been designed to encourage and support employers in recruiting those long term unemployed who need the most help to get back into the labour market. £2.5 million of the £7.4 million Back to Work funding has been allocated to the scheme for 2012. The Employment Grant Scheme offers employers £7,200 for each long-term unemployed individual who  is employed on a long-term or permanent contract of at least 18 months. A number of employers have already contacted Back to Work to apply for the scheme.

11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE WAITING LIST FOR ELECTIVE SURGERY:

Question

Will the Minister explain to Members to what extent the increase revealed in the response to my question on 15th May 2012, in both the waiting list and waiting list times for elective surgery, is due to staffing problems in the department and, in particular, what measures, if any, does she have under consideration to bring these increased waiting times and numbers down?

Answer

The information provided to States members in response to Question 6869 on 15th May 2012, which is copied below, showed that between 2008 and 2010 there was an increase in the waiting list and the waiting times for elective surgery, but that between 2010 and 2012 that upwards trend started to reverse.

The information also showed that the total number of elective public patients increased between 2008 and 2012. In Q1 2008 2,205 procedures were performed but 1,090 patient were still waiting and in Q1 2012 2,384 procedures were performed but 1,486 patients were still waiting i.e. total patient numbers in Q1 2008 was 3,295 but had risen to 3,870 by Q1 2012 (c.18% increase over that period).

Some of that increase in total patient numbers will be the accumulative effect of those who remained on the waiting for long periods of time - albeit that trend also started to reverse in 2010 - but some of the increase in total patient numbers relates to increased demand.

HSSD will be undertaking further analysis of its waiting lists versus its referral rates in order to understand this more fully, but it is notable that some of the largest waiting list are in services such as Ophthalmology and Orthopaedics, which predominately manage older patients, and Diabetes, Bariatrics which predominately support patients with long-term chronic conditions. This is a reflection of the issues set out in the White Paper.

Inevitability some of the increase in waiting time experienced between 2008 and 2012 will be the result of staffing issues, including short term absence (e.g.; illness) or longer-term staff vacancies caused by recruitment and retention issues. HSSD works hard to manage these staffing issues in a number of different ways including:

• use of locums and bank staff
• creation of additional posts and associated recruitment
• service redesign or job plan redesign (for example nurse prescribing; creation of the new Assistant Practitioner role).

If HSSD is to bring all waiting times into line with the three month target investment is required in order that:

• services can be redesigned in order to enable more community provision and alleviate pressure on hospital capacity, as per the White Paper;
• increased demand can be better managed through an increase in staff and improved resources, not least a fit-for-purpose hospital.

Information previously provided in relation to Question 6869 on 15th May 2012 Elective surgery activity

The elective surgical activity in Q1 2008 was 2,205

The elective surgical activity in Q1 2012 was 2,384. Elective surgery waiting list

1,090 patients in the Q1 2008

1,415 patients in Q1 2009

1,804 patients in Q1 2010

1,662 by Q1 2011

1,486 by Q1 2012.

Percentage of patients waiting over 3 month target: 7% in Q1 2008

12% in Q1 2009

25% in Q1 2010.

18% by Q1 2011

15% by Q1 in 2012.

[9:45]

2. Oral Questions

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the outcome of the genetically modified Jersey Royal potato experiment:

Would the Minister update Members on the genetically modified Jersey Royal potato experiment? Deputy R.C. Duhamel of St. Saviour (The Minister for Planning and Environment):

The States in 1999 on a proposition brought by Deputy Crowcroft , P.33/99, adopted by a vote of 42 to 5 the proposition which was that the Island authorities "take all possible steps to designate and maintain the Island of Jersey free from the growing of genetically modified organisms." Following that debate, the then Agricultural and Fisheries Committee suspended a programme of research into a new strain of the Jersey Royal potato, which could have been resistant to the potato cyst nematode worm, to reduce the reliance on chemical pesticides. Since that time, there are no genetically modified Jersey Royal potato experiments currently being undertaken by the Department of the Environment or the States, to my knowledge. Further, I am given to understand that no other organisation is carrying out any experiment of this type locally.

2.1.1 Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:

I understand from my previous attendance in this Assembly that the laboratory work was, in fact, ceased. I think that was due to Deputy Dorey, if I remember correctly. I am not quite sure but a few years ago some farmers were paid by the Agricultural Department a sum of money, I think it was £100 a vergée, if I recall correctly, to grow a special variety of Jersey Royal. Could the Minister confirm that it was, in fact, the genetically modified variety and if so, could he state what has happened to the many tons of potatoes that were so grown?

Deputy R.C. Duhamel:

I will have to look into that but I am advised that following the decision by the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee that all material used in the trials was autoclaved and incinerated. Certainly I would have thought that following the decision by this House to designate and maintain the Island free from the growing of any genetically modified organisms, that were any of those potatoes that the Deputy refers to genetically modified, then those farmers would have been breaking the spirit of the agreement passed by this House. I will look into it and see whether or not any of those potatoes still exist but from my preliminary investigations, I am told that all of them were destroyed.

2. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade of the Chief Minister regarding delays in introducing Vulture Fund' legislation:

Will the Chief Minister explain if there has been a delay in introducing "Vulture Fund" legislation and inform Members when the promised changes are likely to be implemented?

Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):

There has been no delay in consulting on or commencing drafting of legislation to limit practices that could undermine international debt relief. To date, the U.K. (United Kingdom) is the only country in the world to have enacted a law of this kind. Alongside Guernsey and the Isle of Man, we are proposing to join the U.K. as leaders in this field and to do so expeditiously on a timescale in line with that of the other 2 Islands.

1. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier :

I believe the Council of Ministers discussed this back on, I think, the 15th of December, so could the Chief Minister just assist us perhaps and encourage us by giving us a little bit of indication when this might finally come forward? As I think most Members would agree, it is something that is a bit of a stain on everywhere who fails to act on it.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

As I said, the U.K. is currently the only jurisdiction/country in the world that has such legislation. We are proposing to be at the forefront as well of such legislation. Earlier this year in late January, I instructed the drafting of such legislation and I hope that I will be in a position to lodge during September.

2. Deputy M. Tadier :

Could I just thank the Chief Minister? Clearly, this was something which was initially, I think, adopted in November in a Statement by the Chief Minister and I would just encourage the Chief Minister - I hope he agrees - that this should be given top priority among, no doubt, other competing priorities. Will the Chief Minister just give an assurance that in the autumn, we will be able to see this legislation so that high profile cases such as those recently happening in London will not be a potential embarrassment to our industry and our Island?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Obviously this is a piece of legislation similar to the United Kingdom's in that the aim is to ensure that debt relief efforts for developing countries are not interrupted by those who are not abiding by the rules agreed upon by the Paris Club nations and are recovering debts outside of the Common Reduction and Decision Point factors, so it gets quite technical. That is what we are talking about and that is what I am committed to delivering.

3. Connétable P.J. Rondel of St. John of the Chief Minister regarding the retirement of the consultant gynaecologist:

Would the Chief Minister inform Members whether the agreement made earlier this year between the former consultant gynaecologist and the States Employment Board contains a provision that the Chief Minister would make a public statement relating to the consultant's retirement and, if so, when will the Chief Minister make this statement?

Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):

The agreement between the States Employment Board and the former consultant contained a statement which could be made by me as follows: "The conclusions of the independent reports prepared by Verita and GoodwinHannah and their specific findings regarding the handling of the exclusion of - I will use the individual's name, Sir, because that is what was included in the statement - John Day, a senior and long-serving hospital consultant have previously been acknowledged. An amicable settlement totalling £448,000 has been reached in relation to the net losses suffered by him, including in relation to a loss of private income and which also includes a contribution to his retraining and legal costs. It is hoped that we can now place these sad events behind us."

1. The Connétable of St. John :

Would the Chief Minister confirm that the correct version of the settlement and acknowledgement to the House will also be released to his colleagues and friends within the hospital to prevent any confusion that may arise?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

It is my understanding that that statement was issued to hospital staff some weeks ago. I will double-check that and ensure that it was but it is my understanding that it already has been.

2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

Will the Chief Minister check with the Director of Human Resources that the other requirement under the contract that a statement exonerating the consultant in all the matters has been placed in his personnel file?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Due to the unusual nature of the conclusion to these particularly sad events, I was drawn into reviewing and agreeing this agreement. I am not aware of the inclusion of such a clause that the questioner suggests but I will certainly go and review that in case my memory is faulty.

Senator S.C. Ferguson:

I will send the details to the Chief Minister with pleasure.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I am not sure that the Senator needs to do that. I can indeed review the agreement.

4. Deputy T.M. Pitman of the Chief Minister regarding the terms of reference for the historic abuse enquiry as proposed by Verita:

Will the Chief Minister clarify precisely what the perceived problems are with the terms of reference for the Historic Abuse Inquiry as proposed by Verita? Would he state whether Mr. Andrew Williamson has been engaged to review the terms of reference and, if so, what the cost of his engagement is?

Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):

There is no question in my mind that a Committee of Inquiry is needed to provide help with closure of this difficult and long-running period. The Verita terms of reference were open-ended as a strategy. I have therefore asked Mr. Andrew Williamson, an experienced Social Services Director from the United Kingdom, who also has much experience of working in Jersey, to review the original terms of reference to see whether they could be set in such a way as to ensure that unanswered questions are investigated and answers are provided without the requirement to reopen individual cases. The cost of Mr. Williamson's work has amounted to £2,000 to date and I expect that the total cost of his work in relation to reviewing the terms of reference will not exceed £10,000.

1. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Perhaps the Chief Minister could enlarge for me and perhaps a few others what he means by "open- ended". More specifically, can he ensure that having decided we did not need independence to do the Electoral Commission, for instance, can he give assurances that we will come up with a format that will ensure closure for those people who were victims and, just as importantly, that those who are ultimately found to be responsible will be held to account?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

As I said in answer to questions on this subject before, I will be in a position where I can lodge the terms of reference for the Committee of Inquiry to this Assembly for Members rightly to decide. At the same time, I will be appending any other work which has been undertaken to get to those terms of reference. Equally I, of course, would like to think that closure could be brought but these are very difficult long-running issues and I think that what we can hope for is that people are able to move on with their lives. I am not certain that for lots of people closure will be found by a Committee of Inquiry but I hope that it will help with the healing process and it will allow some answers to be given. With regard to the open-ended nature, that of course is very difficult because we have a responsibility to ensure that a Committee of Inquiry reaches its findings in an appropriate timescale and within a suitable budget. What I have been concerned about is that every person appearing before the inquiry might feel that if it is too adversarial, they need to instruct legal counsel and that, of course, will change the budget and the cost requirements entirely.

2. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour :

Can the Chief Minister explain the process  about how external parties can contribute to  Mr. Williamson's review, given that they might be best placed to indicate what these unanswered questions are?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Yes, the Deputy raises a very good point that he raised at the last sitting. Mr. Williamson will be on the Island again this week and I will be meeting with him to ensure that that is done, so that individuals that we perhaps are not aware of now - albeit some I have written to and invited to meet with Mr. Williamson perhaps some are not yet aware of that and would like to and we need to ensure that they have that ability to do so prior to lodging.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

Will the Chief Minister provide the dates of - if he has them available, and if not to provide them and circulate them - when Verita was initially commissioned to provide the terms of reference, when they reported back and when Mr. Williamson was commissioned to produce further terms of references?

[10:00]

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I do not have those dates with me. Members are well aware that this has dragged on far longer than I would have liked and I am keen to bring a proposition to this Assembly so we can decide and the work can get started. I can provide those dates but I will certainly, of course, be including them in any proposition lodged as well so that Members are fully informed and are able to make a decision with all the facts in front of them.

4. Deputy M. Tadier :

Would the Chief Minister agree that the terms of reference set by Verita were not faulty? Rather, they were politically unacceptable to certain Members of the Council of Ministers? If they were faulty, would the Chief Minister explain how it came about that it was the Council of Ministers who commissioned Verita and why did they not set their own terms of reference and their own criteria to make sure that what Verita reported back was acceptable and in line with the terms of reference that the States Assembly agreed only recently before that?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

That is quite a multi-faceted question. I would not wish to use the word "faulty" for the terms of reference but more as I did with regard to open-ended and wanting to limit the need for those appearing before the Committee of Inquiry to have to instruct legal support at that point. I can reassure Members that they will be able to judge for themselves when the terms of reference are before them. That is absolutely right and proper, and not that it is just simply the domain of either me as the Chief Minister or the Council of Ministers.

5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour :

I wonder if the Chief Minister could elaborate on his earlier comment - which I found confusing - as to the presentation of individual cases to the inquiry. Could he agree that these cases will indeed be put forward, albeit perhaps not in the adversarial sense that he quite rightly does not wish? Secondly, will it adopt any of the procedures of a truth and reconciliation approach?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Deputy Le Hérissier raises once again 2 good points. I went through Hansard to look at the points that he raised previously, where he asked me how I was going to ensure that the Committee of Inquiry was carried out in a timely and cost-effective manner and this morning he has asked me about the  modus operandi of the Committee of Inquiry; will it be more like a truth and reconciliation committee? All those issues were and are in my mind and that is, to a large extent, why I asked Mr. Williamson to do the review because we have got to be clear that a Committee of Inquiry is not a truth and reconciliation committee. This Assembly has chosen that it wants to have a Committee of Inquiry and I will be bringing forward terms of reference that I hope allow a more reconciliatory approach rather than an adversarial approach, which can be the hallmark of a Committee of Inquiry.

6. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Could the Chief Minister explain his earlier comments about how individual cases will be dealt with?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Sorry, yes. Sometimes when there is more than one question in one question, I forget to answer the earlier part. Again, the Deputy makes a very good point. Of course individuals must be allowed to appear before the committee and talk about their experiences because that is the way that answers, I hope, will be provided. Albeit that might be quite difficult but that is quite different from an adversarial approach where people feel that they need to have legal representation because they are being challenged and because it is a much more confrontational approach. That is what we wish to avoid.

7. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

I  imagine I am probably  in a fairly small minority of Members who have read some of the statements of what happened to people. I have to say they made me both sick and angry. So while cost is important in all things, can the Chief Minister agree with me that when it comes to justice, cost should never be an excuse that that will not be fulfilled? Can he, in answering that, ensure that those people who spoke to Verita and did not know about Mr. Williamson's involvement will also be able to discuss what has happened with Mr. Williamson himself?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I am committed to a Committee of Inquiry and that is right and proper. Ultimately we should make our decision in light of hopefully getting some answers and helping the healing process and helping people to move on, albeit with the caveat that I have said. Therefore budgetary considerations should not be at the forefront of our mind. However, of course, we all have a responsibility to ensure that costs in any project are controlled. Sorry, could the Deputy just remind me of the second part?

Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Yes, of course. Could the Chief Minister just advise obviously many people have not known about Mr. Williamson's involvement, so will those people who have spoken to Verita now be able to speak to Mr. Williamson?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

The Deputy makes a very good point. It is not something that I had considered in that format but that is a good way of dealing with the issue that Deputy Maçon spoke about which is to re-contact all those who contacted the Verita terms of reference.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the 11 new companies in the oil, gas and mining sector in the Island and the residential status of their beneficial owners:

Will the Minister name the 11 companies in the oil, gas and mining sector he referred to in his oral answer on 29th May 2012, along with the residential status of their beneficial owners? Would he confirm his response that all but 2 of the 59 jobs created are for locally-qualified employees and state how many of these 59 jobs have been filled by local and non-local employees?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):

My department has previously sought legal advice on the public disclosure of information gathered for statutory purposes. From this, I am advised that I am not in a position to publicly name the companies or the details of their beneficial owners as the Deputy requests. However, what I can say is that most of them are either listed or subsidiaries of listed companies and, as such, their shareholders are worldwide and fluid. With respect to the second part of the question, I can confirm my previous answer that 57 of the 59 job opportunities created were for locally-qualified employees. Manpower returns are conducted twice a year. As such, we have no information as yet for companies that moved here during 2012 which were incorporated in the Deputy 's question. Based on the December 2011 manpower returns, 37 of the 53 job opportunities created have been filled and only one was for a non-locally qualified position as defined under the Regulation of

Undertakings and Development Law. A large proportion of the opportunities created that are not filled relate to a company that established at the very end of 2011 and, as such, we will have to wait until the June manpower returns to see how they are progressing.

2.5.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :

Can the Minister then confirm to me that most of these companies are merely headquartered here and are not gold mining in Rozel or fracking for gas in St. Ouen ?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I can indeed. In fact, I think I made that point at the last sitting so yes, I can confirm that.

6. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the powers of the Financial Services Commission to protect the consumers of financial services and products and the reputation of the Island:

Is the Minister satisfied that the Jersey Financial Services Commission has the powers and resources it needs to carry out its functions effectively in ensuring that the Island is a well-regulated financial centre that protects the consumers of financial services and products and the reputation of the Island?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):

I am satisfied that the Jersey Financial Services Commission has both the powers and the resources it needs to carry out its statutory functions effectively and I have no reason to believe that either the Commission's powers or the Commission's resources are in any way deficient.

1. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Does the Minister in particular think that the Jersey Financial Services Commission has sufficient funds to take on the very large banks operating in the Island when they are determined to be in breach of regulations, bearing in mind that they have deeper pockets to contest these matters than the Commission? Does he also feel they have sufficient money to cover the many enforcement actions that are likely to be brought because of a number of firms engaging in business that because of the recession that they would not otherwise be dealing with?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Yes, I do. The J.F.S.C. (Jersey Financial Services Commission) has significant resources and, with regard to taking on large organisations like banks, there is a track record where, in fact, the Commission has in the past successfully taken on a bank that acted inappropriately.

2. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

On this particular matter, I know for a fact that the Commission does not have sufficient funds to contest these actions and has shown reluctance to take on, for example, Standard Chartered Bank who are alleged to have committed a fraud by Mr. George Burrow, a Canadian investor who has been standing outside Standard Chartered Bank with a placard for the last week. Now, the point on this is that this man has been let down, not only by the Jersey Financial Services Commission who are afraid to take action because they realise that Standard Chartered Bank have a bigger bank balance, if you will pardon the expression, than the Commission does. I do think that the Minister is highly misleading if he feels that the Commission is properly resourced in this area. The question is again specifically how much money do they have to fight court actions and is it sufficient?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

As I have said, the J.F.S.C. has significant reserves. If the Deputy refers to their latest stated published accounts in 2010, he will see that they have got more than £6.5 million of reserves. There is no question that they are not prepared to take on banks or any other organisation if indeed there is a case where they can so do. I am afraid the Deputy is talking about a specific case here. Clearly he would appreciate that neither I nor the J.F.S.C. are in a position to comment publicly about that but nevertheless I am very satisfied with the way in which the J.F.S.C. has undertaken its duties and indeed engaged in this particular matter that the Deputy is so concerned about, and rightly so, as I might add, has my department.

3. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Can the Minister confirm whether the J.F.S.C. has indeed the powers to investigate a case where a person contends that they have received the wrong advice and indeed that they have been lied to? How would the J.F.S.C. embark upon such an investigation and can he confirm it has powers so to do?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

The J.F.S.C. has no explicit statutory responsibility for consumer protection. I think that is a key point and I think if we were to get to the heart of this matter, the Financial Services Ombudsman, which this Assembly voted upon progressing and is indeed being progressed. I have previously said at the last sitting, I believe, that we hoped to have that legislation in place by the beginning of 2014. That indeed is the route that would have perhaps provided some resolve for the individual case that the Deputy is referring to.

4. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

Can the Minister confirm that in a case such as has been alleged or that I have outlined and the mis- selling that has occurred recently in the U.K. and which has been the subject of massive compensation that the J.F.S.C. cannot act in those cases?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

There is a route through which the J.F.S.C. could act in a case such as this and it relates to Article 26 of the Financial Services Law and that is in regard to restitution orders. Clearly in order to do that, the Deputy and Members would appreciate, that it is an extremely expensive route to take. That said the J.F.S.C. has in the past taken that route. In 2006, Members may recall the Alternate Insurance Services case where the J.F.S.C. successfully took a restitution order to the courts and won. However, in this particular instance, upon advice, there was not sufficient evidence in order to go down that particular route.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is it not the case that the Minister has to maintain the pretence that J.F.S.C. can take anybody on whereas the reality is that £6.5 million would soon be eaten up by 2 or 3 of such cases?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

No, the reality is the J.F.S.C. do take on, where necessary, organisations and have a successful track record in so doing. That is absolutely clear. There is no pretence whatsoever.

6. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

It is a shame that Deputy Higgins or any of us have to bring individual cases up in the States but we are seeing this type of thing more and more. So does the Minister not concede that if finance is not the issue here, then for people like Mr. Burrow, the real issue is that there is an unwillingness to take that on and have this bad publicity? I understand this is going into the national papers now, you know, a man walking the streets with a sandwich board. I have met with him. How very sad is that. Does the Minister not agree that Jersey cannot afford this type of publicity? We need to act.

[10:15]

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Indeed, Jersey does not like this type of publicity and that goes clearly without saying, but the suggestion there has been a lack of action is not true at all. The J.F.S.C. have been communicating with this individual and I think it is regrettable that his name has been mentioned in public since 2008. They have voluminous files on the subject and, indeed, on his recent visit to the Island, they even provided him with coffee and shelter from the rain. The Commissioner of the J.F.S.C. met with him personally and went through the details of the case and explained the limits of which the J.F.S.C. can act, in particular with regards to his particular circumstance. Officers from my department also met with this individual and gave him as much support as possible and I myself have written to the bank laying out our position. There has been significant assistance to this individual. The circumstance he finds himself in is clearly most regrettable.

Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Could I just point out that the individual is quite happy with his name being mentioned. The Deputy Bailiff :

I took it that it was necessary to mention his name to identify what the questions were about. Final supplementary, Deputy Higgins?

7. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Just a brief comment first. Yes, the Head of Jersey Financial Services Commission did meet with Mr. Burrow and again he did emphasise his lack of resources as one of the reasons why they did not take action. Secondly, the Minister was asked to meet with Mr. Burrow and could not find the time in the, I think, 2 weeks that he has been in the Island. In terms of the final question, is the Minister aware that Jersey's reputation has already been damaged by this particular incident because the visiting French delegation from the French Senate that were coming in to examine how well we regulate our finance industry went across the road to meet Mr. Burrow and discussed the practical aspects of the regulation in this Island? They said they were told one thing in the Commission, how well we are regulated, and they were very interested to hear in practice how we do regulate. Is the Minister aware of this?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Yes, I am aware that the Senate met him. Clearly, they were having meetings with the J.F.S.C. and he was located very close by. Yes, I am aware of that. I also would like to restate the inaccuracies of what Deputy Higgins has just said with regard to the lack of resources of the J.F.S.C. I met with the Commissioner of the J.F.S.C. yesterday and that was certainly not said. What was probably said was the fact that it is an expensive route to take and there has to be solid evidence in order to go for a restitution order. There was not and is not, on the advice that has been received, sufficient evidence to pursue that particular course.

Deputy T.M. Pitman:

Sir, could I raise the défaut on Deputy Martin please?

The Deputy Bailiff :

It is proposed the défaut be raised on Deputy Martin. Do Members agree? The défaut is raised.

7. Deputy R.J. Rondel of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the introduction of revised licensing legislation:

Would the Minister advise Members when the revised licensing legislation will come before the Assembly?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):

Delivering a simplified modern and flexible Liquor Licensing Law is well overdue and remains a priority of my department. However, in order to ensure that the new law is part of the wider States strategy on alcohol, I am working with the Ministers for Home Affairs, Health and Social Services and Treasury and Resources to bring forward a joint strategy which not only deals with licensing but also public safety and public health. The timescale of work in this area is currently dependent therefore on a number of departments. That said, good progress is being made and I am confident that joint proposals for future alcohol and licensing policy will be published soon. This will include a Licensing Law White Paper and the new legislation should then be lodged for debate in early 2013.

1. Deputy R.J. Rondel:

Does the Minister agree that it should perhaps be given even more of a priority than its current position, given the increasing problems of alcohol due to the high costs of the Health Service and could he elaborate on when soon may well be?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Yes, I would agree with the Deputy that this is a serious issue in terms of alcohol abuse. Certainly the Health Department feel very strongly. They have an alcohol strategy which they are bringing forward, which will assist with this issue. It is not just the licensing legislation. Clearly it is a number of areas that need to conspire in order to try and tackle alcohol abuse within the Island, particularly underage drinking which is a problem and does need to be addressed. As far as specifics, it is a matter of weeks in terms of publishing further details. The White Paper, for example, the legislation, as I have said needs to go to law drafting and that is why I have said the beginning of 2013 is when I hope we will be in a position to lodge for debate the new Licensing Law.

2. The Connétable of St. John :

Given this new Licensing Law is in the process of being reviewed, will the Minister make sure that it is reviewed along with the Taxi Law? A lot of the problems that have arisen over recent years, since the law was last reviewed by the then Tourism Department - which comes under his remit - back in the 1990s, and a lot of problems at the Weighbridge and in outlying areas were caused because there was not the joined up thinking between the 2 departments. Would he give that some thought?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

One of the reasons for delay is that it has been so joined up across many departments, clearly it takes a little longer to get these matters progressed. That is regrettable and indeed, I might add, not an acceptable answer, but just a fact. With regard to the taxi issue, there was, of course, a Green Paper, which covered a number of areas. I will check on the results with regard to taxis. I do not know whether the now Connétable was involved in the Green Paper consultation, whether he fed into that, but I am happy to supply him with any results that came through as a result of the Green Paper that was consulted on last year.

3. The Connétable of St. John :

Will the Minister please confirm that he will look at the Taxi Law in relation to this because they are very close together? A lot of the problems arise because there has been no joined up thinking between the 2 areas of pubs or discos that empty out at a certain time. You want to make sure there are sufficient taxis on the rank to clear the people. This is where a lot of the problems have arisen, having been at both ends of the spectrum when we put the law in place and previous to that when I was in the Honorary Police.