States Meeting Transcript - 17th April 2013

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT WEDNESDAY, 17th APRIL 2013

PUBLIC BUSINESS - resumption................................................................4

1. Island Plan 2011: wind-farms (P.27/2013) ...............................................4

1.1 Senator S.C. Ferguson:..................................................................4

1. Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement:..................................................4
2. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin : .........................................................4
3. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade:.......................................................5
4. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville :...................................................6
5. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :....................................................................6
6. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:......................................................7
7. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:........................................................7
8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour:................................................8
9. Connétable P.J. Rondel of St. John : ......................................................8
10. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier:....................................................9
11. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:......................................................9
12. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement:..............................................9

STATEMENT ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY.........................12

2. The Chief Minister will make a statement regarding strategic priorities..............12

2.1 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):................................................12

1. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen:..........................................................14
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................14
3. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................14
4. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................15
5. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................15
6. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................15
7. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................15
8. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................16
9. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................16

PUBLIC BUSINESS - resumption..............................................................18

3. Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority: re-appointment of Chairman (P.32/2013) ...........................................................................................18

3.1 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):...................18

1. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................19
2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................20
3. Connétable M.P.S. Le Troquer of St. Martin:...........................................20
4. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................20

5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................20
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................20
7. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................21

4. Draft States of Jersey (Amendment No. 6) Law 201- (P.34/2013)......................22

4.1 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):................................................23

1. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................23
2. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................23
3. Senator B.I. Le Marquand:..............................................................23
4. Connétable J. Gallichan of St. Mary : ...................................................23
5. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................24 Senator S.C. Ferguson (Chairman, Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel):......................24

5. Draft Register of Names and Addresses (Registered Entries) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.35/2013)...............................................................................25

1. Senator P.F. Routier (Chairman, Migration Advisory Group - rapporteur):.............25

1. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier: ..............................................................26
2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................26

2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................26

1. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................26
2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................26

6. Referendum on States reform: minimum turnout threshold (P.39/2013)..............28

1. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour:.....................................................28

2. Referendum on States reform: minimum turnout threshold (P.39/2013): amendment (P.39/2013 Amd.)........................................................................31

1. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................31
2. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................32
3. The Deputy of St. Martin:..............................................................33
4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier:...............................................33
5. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................34
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................34
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
8. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................36
9. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................37
10. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:..................................................38
11. The Connétable of St. John : .........................................................38

3. Referendum on States reform: minimum turnout threshold (P.39/2013) - resumption ...........................................................................................39

1. Deputy T.M.Pitman:...................................................................39
2. Deputy S. Power of St. Brelade : ........................................................39
3. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:...............................................................40
4. Deputy J.H. Young:....................................................................41
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41
6. The Connétable of St. Mary:............................................................41
7. Connétable S.A. Rennard of St. Saviour : ...............................................41
8. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................42
9. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................43
10. Senator L.J. Farnham : ...............................................................44

11. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:...........................................................44
12. Connétable S.W. Pallett of St. Brelade : ..............................................44
13. Deputy J.M. Maçon:.................................................................44

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ....................46

7. The Connétable of St. Helier (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):......47

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................47

1. Deputy A.K.F. Green of St. Helier:.....................................................47
2. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. Saviour:....................................................47
3. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................48
4. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................49

2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................49
3. Senator A. Breckon: ....................................................................50

ADJOURNMENT................................................................................50

The Roll was called and the Deputy Greffier of the States led the Assembly in Prayer. PUBLIC BUSINESS - resumption

1. Island Plan 2011: wind-farms (P.27/2013)

The Bailiff :

We return to the debate on Projet 27 lodged by Deputy Baudains.

1.1 Senator S.C. Ferguson:

The Minister spoke of the horror of building large towers in St. Brelade 's Bay. Tell that to the folk of the Brecon Beacons. As an engineer, and as someone who majored in finance and worked in the industry for 30 years, I would totally support Deputy Baudain's proposition but I think Members should note that this proposition only applies for the life of the current Island Plan, 10 years. In 10 years' time, we will either have economic technology or we will have forgotten the project because nobody wondered why we gave up windmills a century ago, as did the Dutch, the Greeks, the Majorcans, and many others. If there were no subsidies for the behemoths, then none would have been built and if an industry needs massive government subsidies in order to survive, then it should be abandoned. At the moment, a typical turbine generates power, which is worth about £150,000 a year, but it attracts subsidies of some £250,000 a year. For example, the U.K. (United Kingdom) has a proposed investment programme of £120 billion in turbines and in their back-up. The same amount of electricity could be generated by gas-fired plants from shale gas and the plants would only cost £13 billion. The Minister quoted an impressive number of figures regarding theoretical capacity. The realistic capacity usage is between 10 and 20 per cent of this. We are told that wind uses no fuel but the annual savings in the U.K. are about £500 million compared with gas and as against the additional £107 billion capital cost: is this really a saving and should we be encouraging this at the moment? The subsidy for the windmill industry is, as currently constructed, one of the most viciously regressive taxes - and I use the word advisedly - in existence. How else could you describe a subsidy that benefits the landowner with a few hundred spare acres but results in massive additional costs for the person living in social rented housing? In the U.K., a dozen of the biggest landowners receive nearly £850 million in subsidies, all of which is paid for by the ordinary consumer. An offshore wind farm would be a hazard to shipping and to fishermen, not to mention wildlife. They do not call them bird mincers for nothing. It is an unreliable source of energy and causes strains in the generation and transmission systems through its variability. What is the point in investigating a system which is variable, unreliable, and where the equipment would need an incredible amount of servicing? Mention the wind energy industry's estimates of the time and cost required for servicing offshore wind farms and your marine engineer will fall about laughing. In 10 years' time, when this Island Plan comes up for renewal, the technology may have improved. At

the moment, they are expensive and archaic bird mincers. We should sit out this round and review it with the next Island Plan.

1. Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement :

Just very briefly to agree with Senator Ferguson. Wind farms are noisy, ugly, inefficient and expensive. Deputy Baudains gives us the opportunity to turn our back on this fallacious technology and I hope we take it.

2. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin :

I left the Assembly yesterday afternoon thinking that I had witnessed maybe some veritable clash of the titans, the battle of the giants between St. Clement's branch of Flat Earth Jersey and Tree Huggers"R"Us. [Laughter] That may be a little harsh on both the Deputies but especially on

Deputy Baudains because, as an engineer, he knows only too well that at some time in the future, sustainable technology will produce viable energy for us all to use economically. While we have now heard both sides of the argument, we have also heard some truth from both sides. Yes, wind power is uneconomical. It is currently flawed for quite a few reasons and, of course, it does not work when the wind does not blow or when the wind blows too hard. But Deputy Baudains must admit, again as an engineer, that at some time in the future, it may well work properly. We all know that the speed of technological change is getting faster and faster and at some time in the years to come, we will find something that works. We have also heard from the Minister for Planning and Environment, quite correctly, that the Island Plan has any number of potential safeguards that protect our offshore reefs and I am comforted by the assurance that we have been given that wind farms on these Ramsar sites will not be permitted. So which side of this argument does one support? On reflection, I found it easier to ask myself which side I find easier not to support. I might not like the possibility of wind farms off Corbière but we are not there yet. The technology may allow us in the future to take part in these schemes even though, at the moment, that probability seems very unlikely. However, if we agree to never allow anything to happen, as Deputy Baudains suggests, then we rule out the chance of taking part in something which may be perfectly acceptable in the future. Let us not burn our bridges before we get to them. Let us keep our options open. Technology is a wonderful thing. At some time in the future, it will come up with the type of sustainable energy that we can benefit from. Let us make sure that we are ready to embrace it when it arrives. This proposition ties our hands unnecessarily in my view and I ask Members to reject it.

[9:45]

3. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade :

Deputy Luce has said much of what I was going to say so I will try not to repeat it. I absolutely agree with the view that Deputy Baudains is telling us. I have seen these things for myself. I am sure he is absolutely right about their adverse effects and their limitations but I think that the proposition, no matter how well meaning and now matter how accurate the facts the Deputy gives us on the engineering, that the decision to rule ourselves out is premature. There is absolutely no doubt that at the moment wind farms would be completely uneconomic and non-viable in the current technology and so on. The Deputy says to us that we should undergo a review of our planning policy and part of that seems to be that he cites the ambiguity of the planning policies. What I would like to say is that that is not the only example of planning policies that are badly worded where there are confusing and ambiguous messages and this is one such case. We only need to look at page 87 of the Draft Energy Strategy to see what the policy was meant to be rather than what is recorded in the Island Plan, and that is that onshore wind farms are definitely not for Jersey and the Minister has given us a commitment on our reefs. I think I give notice here that when we do do a review I shall be bringing a proposition not only to tidy-up the Island Plan but many other policies that also suffer from this problem of not being well written and confusing and I want to see simplification and clarity. But on the big principle of offshore wind farms, my concern is that the Minister has given us, after a lot of work, a Draft Energy Plan to take the Island to 2050 and in it, the paragraph on alternative technologies and renewable energies does not commit us to any of these technologies but makes the point that Senator Ferguson has said, that these technologies are emerging and that we should look at them and try and make sure that at the right time we get on board the right vehicle because there is no doubt about it, we cannot set our face now against the opportunity for renewable energy sources. I think, given the fact that we have got this draft, it is going to come here. The Scrutiny Panel has appointed an expert to start this review. It would be premature to say that we should set our face against this and close our minds to this possibility for ever. Of course, I asked myself, when I was listening to the discussion about the French yesterday, if it is right that the French have got massive plans for wind farms in their waters

which we can see from Jersey, driven – obviously - by massive E.U. (European Union) money which we do not have access to, would we really set our face against the dialogue with them to be able to make any sense, to try and see what possible benefits there might be, some co-operation? Would we really do that? I would really doubt it, so despite the well meaning of this - and full marks for Deputy Baudains for bringing this - I just cannot support the path he is sending us on and so I am with the Minister on this.

4. Connétable D.J. Murphy of Grouville :

I am speaking from the standpoint of the Renewal Energy Commission and if I can just clarify certain points. I think there was some doubt in people's minds yesterday about the French development and, in fact, there is a development of French turbines planned for 100 units which is going to be flush up to the borderline with our waters and running down in the French waters down to Quimper. That is entirely up to them, that is what they are doing. They have been over here to talk to us about it and we have spoken to them and there has been consultation so what they want to do is entirely up to them. As regards the offshore reefs, they are protected completely under the Ramsar Convention so I do not think there is any problem. I keep a very close eye myself anyway because Les Minquiers is just part of the Parish of Grouville . It is, in fact, a 13th Parish virtually down there at low water. Thirdly, economics. Senator Ferguson has laid out the economic problems with these windmill renewables. They are expensive and they are subsidised and the money does come out of the taxpayers' pocket at the moment in a very big way indeed. So I think you would have to take a very close look at any economic benefit which would accrue to Jersey and I cannot see it. Also, on offshore, that is one point; on onshore at the moment, the guideline is I think it is something like - perhaps the Minister might be able to confirm this - 500 metres from any habitable home so I do not think anywhere onshore, i.e., in Jersey itself, would be suitable for onshore turbines. If I leave that as it is, I will push on to my favourite subject which, of course, is tidal energy and we are pushing ahead with that. There again, as Deputy Young has said, we are watching technology. Technology is going ahead by leaps and bounds. We are literally at the cutting edge of technology here. It is not ready yet but we are working on it and we are keeping an eye on anything that may advantage us on this. The only problem we have at the moment is .. and I think talking about any type of offshore renewables at the moment, we do not have the access to the seabed, which we do not own. However, negotiations are in train and Senator Sir Philip Bailhache is dealing with the U.K. Government on this basis in order for us to obtain our rights to the seabed around the Jersey shores. I do not think anything can happen in the immediate future, however, I do think we need some protection on this. We do have a lot of protection but I think Deputy Baudains has probably hit the nail on the head and I think people are worried about it and I

shall be supporting him.

5. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

There is much debate at the moment about how to get economies going and locally how we are going to, in the longer term, seek to diversify our economy. Many commentators and politicians are commenting and focusing on capital and infrastructure spending and that has an important role now and into the future. The other focus of boosting long-term economic capacity is investment in technology, in particular in the focus of research and development in building long-term new industries. Communities and nations that do not invest in research and technology, as indeed the U.K. did not for many years, impair their long-term economic prospects. We are investing in our long-term. We are planning for a different world. That is one of the focuses of Digital Jersey. Mayor Bloomberg from New York on the weekend spoke about what New York was doing in investing in research and development and technology and green technology. Around the world, billions of pounds are being invested in research and development. The U.K. is focusing on investment in university spending to diversify their own economy. Green energy has a role in the

future. We do need to deal with climate change. Indeed, the funding of and while Senator Ferguson may well remonstrate, as the funeral for Baroness Thatcher gets underway, it was indeed Baroness Thatcher who was one of the first politicians in the world who spoke about the dangers of climate change. They are real and they are real concerns. I tested an electric car 2 weekends ago, an electric car that was not even possible to run for half an hour 10 years ago. I used that electric car for all over the weekend on a charge that cost, in fact, I worked it out, it is 1.8p in terms of the electricity costs compared to 16p per mile in terms of that is 1.8p for an electric car and 16p for a petrol car. That indicates that the world is changing and I completely endorse the remarks made by the Deputy of St. Martin and, indeed, Deputy Young. The world is changing and we need to make sure that we have the data from our wind resource and, indeed, our tidal energy. We need to have that data. We need to have our research and development data in order that we can see whether or not we can benefit from reducing our costs in terms of energy, in terms of carbon, and yes, deal with the potential problems of climate change, even though Senator Ferguson will never agree with that. I believe that we do. Deputy Baudains is asking us to effectively not invest. He is effectively cutting off the research and development that is going to be made in finding out what that wind resource is around the coast of Jersey. This is not going to lead automatically to wind farms. Wind farms at the moment are more expensive, the energy that is from wind farms is more expensive in terms of its cost of electricity but it will fall. Just as the technology in electric cars has moved on in an almost unimaginable way in 10 years, so also will the technology for generating power from wind and, indeed, one hopes in the longer term, to harness our tidal resource. That is the reason why we must reject Deputy Baudains' proposal. We must invest, we must research, we must have good data in order to harness the energy that is around us so that we can reduce our dependency on carbon and we can play our part as a small Island in terms of dealing with climate change. We also prepare potentially for an exciting economic area of the future where we cannot

only be self-dependent but we can harness that resource. I urge Members to reject the proposition. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

I am sure the Senator did not mean to mislead the Assembly but I can assure him that if he had read Mrs. Thatcher's book I think it is Statecraft, there is a chapter in it where she admits that she made a mistake with the climate change alchemy and rejected the so-called arguments of the proponents of that particular theory.

The Connétable of Grouville :

Point of order. The actual proposition does not refer to any ban on research development whatsoever. It just simply says: "Utility scale wind farms will not be permitted." There is nothing in this proposition which stops us investigating and looking into these things.

6. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

I spent my early years in this Chamber with a very excellent tutor, a very perceptive and discriminating tutor, who was sat on my left and used to whisper in my ear. He taught me how this House works and a very good tutor he was except that occasionally he would just go off on one and I could not follow him at all, and I think this is one of these cases because here we have a very selective set of quotes trolled straight off the internet from lobbyists who are anti-green energy and say there is no crisis in energy whatsoever and he comes up with a piece of pseudoscience on page 3 which has been doing the rounds on the internet for yonks. The thought that if we put up a wind farm anywhere near us we are going to get resonated to death is just ridiculous. It is a piece of pseudoscience that is off the page. I cannot go along with something that uses that sort of non-logic and non-evidence to support this argument so I will be voting against this.

7. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

When I read this - I will just check the date - it is not April Fool's Day, but the Constable of St. Clement said let us turn our back on technology or this fallacious technology that we should not be.. Jersey can turn our back. We should be running forward to enhance anything that is coming. I watched something last night about bacteria being turned into some sort of fuel. It is amazing but it is going to be coming down .. it is quite scary what is out there.

[10:00]

I rose to my feet because the Constable mentioned the proposition and I love the proposition because it says to request the Minister for Planning and Environment, having undertaken the required consultation process, to come back to this House and say wind farms will not be permitted. Why bother then? What is the consultation process all about? Absolutely it is a ridiculous.. nobody is planning to put them in the middle of St. Clement and one in St. Brelade at the moment. That is not going to happen. We know that there are things wrong with the technology at the moment but I am not going to be .. should we have done like 20 years ago and said we are not going to have any mobile phone masts in Jersey? It is absolutely ridiculous. The proposition to me should not have ever been .. why go out to proper consultation but have the answer in the proposition. You are going to come back and tell us we are not going to have utility wind farms in Jersey. Madness. Glad I agree with Senator Ozouf and Deputy Southern and we all agree obviously. I am, I think, a forward-thinking politician and I just cannot see that Jersey is going to be King Canute and hold back the tide, wind tide or farm or whatever tides we are going to be investing in the future I totally agree we should be looking at. Deputy Young is doing this but he is literally doing it. He is not saying: "Go and consult and then come back and say let us not do it." I am surprised at the Constable of Grouville because he is our forward-thinking looking at alternatives out there but not in Jersey.

8. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier of St. Saviour :

Deputy Martin has partly taken the wind out of my sails. [Laughter] I was going to stand up and create a few waves but what I .. yes, I know, if you are surfing the internet, you are bound ultimately to come across this kind of science. I was absolutely staggered by the Constable of Grouville and perhaps he would like to tell us what kind of mental agitation is affecting him this morning because I did feel that while he would not necessarily be totally uncritical in his admiration of wind farms, I thought he had an open mind to new technologies and that was the precise purpose for which he was appointed to this body, so that is very worrying.

The Connétable of Grouville :

Can I reply to that, Sir?

The Bailiff :

I am afraid not, Connétable . [Laughter]

9. Connétable P.J. Rondel of St. John :

I recall the very first computer by Sir Clive Sinclair back in the 1970s, a pocket computer. A calculator it was but it was a computer of sorts. I have been called a dinosaur, a "rentosaurus" of St. John or whatever in the past and my colleague has got an iPad next door to me here but I still like the paper. But that said, we should not close our eyes to what is out there and may be out there in the future. Just because I am not up to speed on a lot of these electronic gadgets, I still look in envy when I see people using certain bits of equipment that, just because I am not able to do it, somebody has developed and somebody is always looking forward and inventing things. Just because we have bits of equipment, somebody is telling me from above do not close your eyes to the way forward and I agree with that and my old friend sitting behind me here who brought this proposition, I will not be able to support him because I do not want to close my eyes or for this Island to close their eyes for the next 8 or 10 years until we get another Island Plan with all its carbuncles within it. Somebody, maybe tomorrow, maybe in 20 years' time, may not be able to make this viable when it is not being so heavily subsidised so I say do not go around with blinkers on. Allow progress to continue because if we do not, somebody else will and we lose out in a big way.

10. Deputy T.M. Pitman of St. Helier :

Very briefly, I would just like to say that I do not think the Jersey public would accept any excuse given for ruining the landscape with wind turbines, especially when they can see that so much hot air could be generated by the Council of Ministers within the confines of this Chamber. Then nobody would have to look at it. But the reality of the matter is that I cannot support this either so you cannot put the blinkers on, as the Constable of St. John says, to progress in the future. Things are changing all the time so I am going to have to set another dangerous precedent with Deputy Southern and Deputy Martin in supporting the Minister for Treasury and Resources, and I too cannot support the Deputy of St. Clement. I say sorry to him because I know he feels strongly about such issues but I cannot share those views.

11. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

I think the arguments have been made about the fact that by not adopting this, we do not shut any doors or it does not mean that we have to adopt wind farms. It just means that we may look at it. I think it is necessary also to look outside the box. I share the sentiments of the previous speaker that I do not envisage probably ever lots of wind farms popping up in Jersey because it would be too much of an eyesore. We do not have the land masses that the continent does and the big tracts of unoccupied or under-occupied land where they can fit in quite nicely and Holland obviously in the past has had windmills, though a different type of windmill, and they have been all over the place. But we do have to think outside the box and I know I have spoken to the Minister for Planning and Environment. There are alternatives perhaps. Why not set up wind farms that are co-owned by Jersey on the Normandy Coast? They have got lots of land there. They have got wind farms already and we do that. Either the States invest directly - private partnerships - and we say to the French that we will get this many acres or whatever the units are - I have never been too good with imperial - hectares, and you put wind farms there and then we will take some of the energy and we could end up having either completely free or subsidised energy or selling the energy back to France. There are very many options that could work. Simply run a cable from the coastline, and we know obviously it is not too difficult to run cables between Jersey and France so the options are there, and I think we should not shut ourselves off from that. But I think we should take the bull by the horns because this is an urgent issue and I think to suggest that wind turbines are not efficient is ridiculous when we see both the private sector and governments investing so heavily in them. There must be something in that logic.

The Bailiff :

Very well. Does any other Member wish to speak? I call upon Deputy Baudains to reply.

12. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains of St. Clement :

I thank all Members who have spoken. Just taking Deputy Tadier first. I am glad he appreciates - and it is the whole thrust of my proposition - that Jersey simply does not have the landmass on which we could ever accept wind turbines and it is highly unlikely that we could do the same to have them in our waters as well. I thought he rather supported me towards the end when he was saying that perhaps we could share a French turbine installation on France. That is precisely what my proposition is all about. We do not want them in Jersey. I would totally agree with, if we could, buy our power from France at the present time. What is the difference if we buy our power from a French wind farm? It makes no difference to me. The point is we, as an Island, are too small to have these unreliable and inefficient machines. I am not going to repeat every speech that has been made although my old friend, the Constable of St. John, did come up with an interesting phrase, that we should not close our eyes to what is out there. I am afraid if we built the wind farm, we would have to because they would be an eyesore. The thrust of many Members' speeches I think was missing the point to some degree in that what I am trying to do, and I think the Minister for Treasury and Resources majored on that issue, shut our minds to the future. That is not my intention whatsoever, as I believe Senator Ferguson made clear. Any amendment to the Island Plan.. I am asking that the Minister amends the Island Plan. In 10 years' time, that plan will be amended again. It is revised every 10 years so I cannot see that turbines will be made invisible or in any way produce electricity at an affordable price and generally be the reliable source of power that we need in the next 10 years. In 10 years' time technology may have changed although how they are going to make wind more consistent I am not quite sure. The problem is not in the technology of the wind farms; the problem is with the wind itself. There may be ways of storage that would assist in matters like that. I completely agree. Turning back to the comments of the Minister for Treasury and Resources, that green energy is the fuel of the future; I completely agree with him and he spoke of investment. I used to work for the Ministry of Defence years ago and since then I have been in research for 50 years but I do know when to stop trying to improve something that has got no future. You may come back to it in 10 or 20 years' time when technology has changed. Again, the Constable of St. John referred to seeing the first computer. I may have seen one before him in 1966, I think it was when a fellow from university came to the M.o.D. (Ministry of Defence) and showed us this design of a computer he had built and I said: "That is very nice but how are you going to put that in the vehicle?" because it was the size of the room we are sitting in. Things change, yes. Technology improves. What I am saying boils down to the fact that a wind turbine is an eyesore. You cannot make them beautiful. They are large.

They may in the future produce electricity which is reliable. They are certainly not going to do that in the near future and the whole crux of the matter is that on an Island as small as ours you are simply not going to be able to use them. In fact, I was slightly surprised by some of the comments made by the Minister for Planning and Environment when he spoke yesterday because, if anything, he alarmed me even more than I had been. Of course, it is quite true what he says about Ramsar offering increased protection to our offshore reefs. Obviously I am aware of that and I am, to some extent, relying on that. But, of course, then what is the point of going ahead and putting monitoring devices on those reefs if in the future? You are not looking forward to putting turbines somewhere in that area because there is no point in monitoring something which you have absolutely no intention of doing at all. He did make several mistakes which makes me wonder how up to speed he is on this issue because he stated that he believes wind turbines have a lifespan of 25 years. There has been some massive research into this. Over 3,000 turbines in the U.K. and Europe were analysed and found to have not the 25-year lifespan that people had assumed, more like 10 to 15 years which, of course, makes a huge difference to their viability. He stated that electricity from wind farms is cheap. It is not, it is very expensive, and he stated that the French and others would not be building them if they were not viable. They are not viable. The only reason that they are built is because of the massive subsidies, as Senator Ferguson said this morning and I said in my opening speech yesterday. It averages out at £138,000 for each turbine every year. He spoke of dismantling the units as if somehow when their useful life was over or we did not like them, we could take them away. What about the thousands of tonnes of concrete required as a base for them in the sea? Probably the most worrying thing was apparently I was led to believe that the Island has been approached several times to allow French turbines to be placed either in our waters or quite close to them. I think that really should be a major concern to us. As I said in my opening speech, there are 2 main reasons why wind farms are not suitable for Jersey. At the present time, they

simply are unable to produce usable power. [10:15]

They only produce power when the wind is just right, neither too weak nor too strong and, as we know, the weather around the British Isles, including Jersey, is anything but reliable which means we would only ever get a small amount of electricity on an irregular basis. Page 2 of my notes, fourth paragraph, explains this and that is why you always need 100 per cent backup from a conventional power station for when that wind farm is not able to produce. They really are not suitable for electricity generation, period, whether in Jersey or anywhere else. Living on a small Island, of course, there are other considerations. Countries, wherever possible, mitigate the visual and environmental impact by siting their farms well away, as apparently the French are trying to by putting them as close to Jersey as possible. If the French were to move their wind farm that they are proposing near Saint-Brieuc to the southwest of Jersey, further close to us,  what are the ramifications of that? Would it be in our territorial waters, outside of our territorial waters? I think the problem that probably Members have misunderstood the most is that we must keep our options open because technology will improve. Of course it will improve but it is not going to improve today, tomorrow, next year or in the next 10 years. I have been an engineer long enough to understand that. It may be some time in the future but it will be a long way away. What I want to do is to protect our Island in the meantime. If Members really are saying yes they are open to wind farms: "We could build one in St. Ouen's Bay next year or the year after, let us get hold of this modern technology", I think that would be completely out of order to do that. You just cannot make them environmentally acceptable from a visual point of view or from a wildlife point of view. I want the Minister and his department to stop focusing on scientifically proven failures and to get some faster action regarding tidal power, which I know the Constable of Grouville has been fighting for for some time because the tide, unlike the wind, is both constant and reliable. So this proposition is not about restricting evaluation or construction of renewable energy schemes because many of those are both viable and exciting, as Deputy Martin said. I think it is a green algae experiment which is going on which is very exciting. I fully endorse that. The only renewable energy variant that I have a problem with is wind farms and especially in Jersey. That is what this proposition is all about and this proposition also, I should point out, deals solely with commercial wind farms. If somebody wants to put a wind farm in their yard to recharge their mobile phone, that is fine by me. This is about commercial scale wind farms which we have all seen in the U.K. and France and Italy and wherever, in Germany, Denmark, across Europe. I hope Members realise that they are, certainly in the life of this Island Plan, unsuitable for Jersey and I hope that they will agree with me to request the Minister to make sure that we do not make any major disasters within

the life of this Island Plan. The Bailiff :

The appel is called for then in relation to the proposition of Deputy Baudains. I invite Members to return to their seats and the Greffier will open the voting.

STATEMENT ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY

2. The Chief Minister will make a statement regarding strategic priorities The Bailiff :

Very well. Now, Chief Minister, I think you wish to make a statement. Do Members agree this would be a convenient moment to take it? So I invite you to make the statement, Chief Minister.

2.1 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):

Before Easter, I, together with the Council of Ministers, took the opportunity of taking stock of our strategic priorities. At the start of this Council of Ministers' term of office, our main priorities were to get people into work, house our community, reform the Public Service, as well as reforming health, population control and planning for the future. These remain our central priorities and my Ministers will continue to work hard to achieve them. However, I recognise that the continuing difficult economic circumstances mean we must do more in a number of areas and we must do so quickly. We need to make sure our financial services industry has a clear political vision and focused political leadership. We must press on with reforming the public sector, improving social housing, boosting home ownership and helping Islanders back to work. I am sure no one is in any doubt  that  we  should  house  every  member  of  our  community  adequately  and  provide  more affordable homes for Islanders. The Minister for Planning and Environment has therefore decided not to pursue Policy H3 of the Island Plan. This policy would have required planning applications for private residential developments over a certain size to allocate a percentage of the homes built for  social  need.   This  could  stop  land  being  brought  forward  for  residential  development, undermine the delivery of affordable homes and adversely affect the construction industry. The Council of Ministers is determined to boost the supply of social, rented and affordable homes. For this reason, we have agreed to bring forward the sites set aside in the last Island Plan for rezoning to provide more affordable homes. Together with the use of States-owned sites and tough planning obligations, this is designed to boost the supply of homes while also boosting the economy. A working group comprising the Ministers for Treasury and Resources, Planning and Environment, Housing and Economic Development has been set up to explore other ways to capture value from the development of land for affordable homes. When we debated the Strategic Plan, we agreed that getting Islanders back into work was our top priority and I am sure Members agree that every new initiative must work towards this aim. The Back to Work team has greatly enhanced support for unemployed Islanders and I am proud of what they have achieved. The hospitality campaign is encouraging job seekers to take on roles in the hospitality industry. The Start-Up Business Programme is helping unemployed people with viable business ideas to become self-employed and the National Trust has set up a volunteer scheme which trains job seekers while they work on conservation tasks. These schemes are in addition to the established support provided by Advance to Work, Advance Plus, Workwise and Work Zone and the establishment of the Colomberie Job Club. Now I am pleased that a further £1.6 million extra funding from the department's carry forward will expand upon these programmes, boosting efforts to help unemployed Islanders to find rewarding work. I will redouble with Ministers our effort to do all we can to get people into work in the coming months. The financial services sector provides thousands of valuable job opportunities for Islanders and I am sure Members agree it is critical to our economy and our future. While Jersey is ranked as the top offshore financial centre in the Global Finance Centre Index, there are significant challenges ahead. The financial crisis has prompted a decline in the number employed in the finance industry and increasing competition for the available business and yet political responsibility for this important industry is shared between 3 departments, Chief Minister's, Economic Development and Treasury, leading to a lack of focus. Against this background, it was decided to commission research into the opportunities for Jersey as an international finance centre. Some of the emerging work from global advisers McKinsey was considered last week by the Council of Ministers. We recognise the need to formulate a new strategy and to implement it quickly. One of the report's key findings is the importance of clear lines of government responsibility for financial services. McKinsey recommended this should be centralised within the department of the Chief Minister. Council has accepted the principle of transferring political responsibility for the financial services industry to the Chief Minister. I will also be asking the Minister for Treasury and Resources to take on some operational tasks so that we can move quickly on the report's recommendations. A briefing on this research work will be arranged as soon as possible so Members can be thoroughly briefed on the government structures

needed to implement a strategy which will be critical for the future wellbeing of Island residents. The future of finance is vital and in a changed world we need to do all we can to secure our leading position, which I am sure we can. This change in political responsibility will increase the workload of my department, even with the support from the Minister for Treasury and Resources, so we have been discussing how best to manage our other major initiatives, one of which is the reform of the Public Service. To ensure political leadership, I have decided to delegate this objective to the Minister for Economic Development. I am pleased too that the Minister has agreed to lead this important project, building on the strong start that has been made, focusing on improving the quality of our services, and delivering them in the most cost-effective way. Formal terms of reference will now be drafted to clarify the roles and responsibilities of the Chief Minister, the Minister for Economic Development and the Minister for Treasury and Resources. Support will be provided by senior officers from the 3 departments and regular meetings will be held to ensure these important projects are properly co-ordinated. Jersey continues to face difficult economic times in an increasingly competitive global environment and I am determined we should maintain a careful balance between economic, social and environmental policies, while remaining nimble in the face of new challenges. The changes I am announcing today are designed to do just that, leaving a lasting legacy of a strengthened economy and better services for our future. [Approbation]

The Bailiff :

There is now an opportunity for questions.

1. Deputy J.G. Reed of St. Ouen :

I am certainly encouraged by the Back to Work initiatives and programmes that have been introduced over the last couple of years. However, I would like to ask the Chief Minister, as the largest employer on the Island, how many unemployed Islanders are presently receiving on-the-job training across the States and which Minister, if any, is responsible for ensuring that all departments play a full part in helping unemployed Islanders find rewarding work?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I do not have the details of all the schemes in front of me this morning but I can certainly provide those numbers to the Deputy should he so wish. Each department knows that they have their own part to play, not only in supporting the governmental initiatives which are co-ordinated and overseen by the Social Security Department but, where possible, finding opportunities within their departments for encouraging people back to work.

The Deputy of St. Ouen :

Would the Chief Minister, in that case, publish the information that we have spoken about? Senator I.J. Gorst :

Yes, indeed.

2. Deputy M. Tadier :

In his speech, the Chief Minister mentioned Jersey is the top offshore finance centre and we know that the Chief Minister favours best practice when it comes to finance and the finance industry. How does he marry his support for that and, on the other hand, in the referendum for the most undemocratic option [Aside] .. it is true, he favours the most undemocratic option on the table and what does he think the subsequent fallout will be from the appeals that will go to the Privy Council on this for our finance industry and Jersey's international reputation when they realise that we cannot even run a proper democratic system in Jersey?

The Bailiff :

Deputy , I am sorry, that simply does not arise out of the statement. [10:30]

3. Deputy J.A. Martin:

Under the housing, I think we spent 4 days debating the Island Plan and now it says that the policy H3 will not be pursued which is the only tool in the box to get developers to agree to build some social housing. I am assured, supposedly, of these houses that the Minister has put 4 Ministers on it. When will the option that replaces H3 come back to this House and how soon because I am very concerned that you can do this overnight?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Of course the draft new chapter for the Island Plan will be consulted upon. It will be, I hope, published later this month and it will have to go through the whole process - I will use that charitable word - that requires any amendment to the Island Plan. Unfortunately, that takes a length of time. With regard to alternatives, it is intended that they will be brought forward in the budget at the end of this year.

4. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

I am pleased the Chief Minister has been able to make this statement. What I would like to ask is with his announcement that responsibility for what he calls reform of the public sector has been handed over to the Minister for Economic Development, can he enlarge on whether the Minister will be adopting a more negotiation-based consultative approach rather than the confrontational approach that he has brought to it so far in the hope that things might progress more smoothly?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I do not accept that analysis of the process that I have brought or the current States Employment Board or Council or Ministers has brought to the reform programme. I, together with the Chief Executive Officer, have held a number of consultation meetings. Over 1,500 staff attended those. The Chief Executive Officer and Senior H.R. (Human Resources) Officers have held workshops. Over 1,000 staff [Aside] .. Sir, I have been accused of a non-co-operative approach and I am setting the record straight. Over 1,000 staff have attended those workshops. We have had engagement right at the heart of this process and it is because of that engagement that one or 2 States Members have thought that things were not happening quickly enough. It is right that we engage and we now build on that engagement and start into our delivery process, which I have absolute confidence that the Minister for Economic Development is going to drive forward and deliver on.

5. Deputy T.M. Pitman:

With due respect with regard to concise answers, could the Minister at least explain whether the Minister for Economic Development will be adopting a different approach; that is basically what I have asked.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

The Minister for Economic Development will be building upon the approach already taken, which is engagement, culture change, service redesign, workforce modernisation.

6. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:

The reform of the public sector, I know, is close to the heart of the Chief Minister, as it is to mine, but it does seem to me that what was supposed to be a priority has now slipped somewhat and become perhaps some minor changes designed by the public sector itself. Could the Chief Minister explain to me why he is not starting from a clean sheet of paper with perhaps a commission chaired by somebody like the late Sir John Harvey-Jones, so that we start from a sheet of paper and the government can provide for the public what they need in the most efficient way?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Hopefully my statement today indicates to this Assembly and the community at large that the reverse is the case: this reform is not slipping down the agenda, it is being pulled up by its boots and it is being given greater political impetus in the form of the Minister for Economic Development; he is in the process of developing a board, I suppose, which builds on the idea of Deputy Baudains, with non-executive challenge so that this delivers. He will be involving States Members as well. Nothing could be further from that, as indicated by the Deputy , it is the reverse.

7. The Deputy of St. Martin :

The Chief Minister in the 2 paragraphs under the heading "Housing" mentions a working group that, and I quote: "has been set up to explore other ways to capture value from development of land for affordable homes." Will the Chief Minister agree with me that this group also needs to, without delay, review the Supplementary Planning Guidance on Employment Land? This guidance has been questioned as much as any part of the Island Plan and desperately needs review. The sentiment of safeguarding land for employment is hugely important but at the moment this guidance goes much further than anyone could have envisaged when the Island Plan was approved by this Assembly in 2011.

The Bailiff :

Does that arise out of this statement? Senator I.J. Gorst :

I think it does, Sir.

The Deputy of St. Martin :

I certainly hope so, Sir.

The Bailiff :

Well, are you going to answer? Senator I.J. Gorst :

Yes. I am quite happy to answer that, as I would have been quite happy to answer Deputy Tadier , Sir; I enjoyed sparring with him yesterday and I am sorry that you did not allow me to today. With regard to the Deputy of St. Martin's comment, of course, the changed Island Plan chapter will require all the consultation that I just spoke about and will require public inquiry. I recognise the need and the call for a review of the Employment Land Policy. If that cannot be dealt with internally by the department, which I think it probably can, and it needs to be part of the Island Plan review process, then it very comfortably would sit in the process that we have to put in place to bring forward the new chapter. So I believe it is going to be dealt with one way or the other.

8. The Connétable of St. Clement :

Can the Chief Minister confirm that the protection afforded to the Green Zone, particularly those fields proposed by Deputy Gorst and approved unanimously by the States in the Island Plan to be included in the Green Zone [Laughter] .. will they continue to be safeguarded?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I think I made the position of the Council of Ministers quite clear: it is proposed that those sites will be brought forward but they will have the protection, if we might say, of the consultation and public inquiry process, and those individuals that do not wish for them to brought forward will obviously engage with that process appropriately. But let us be absolutely clear: this Assembly made decisions in the previous Island Plan which took out short and medium-term supply of affordable housing, and that is why we are facing the problems that we are today. [Approbation]

9. Senator L.J. Farnham :

I welcome the Chief Minister's statement, and I am particularly pleased to learn that the Minister for Planning and Environment will not be pursuing the H3 Policy, as I saw it as a barrier to the development of much-needed homes, but do look forward to an alternative scheme being brought forward in the budget. Can I ask for clarification on a couple of points? Firstly, the announcement that the sites set aside under the Island Plan for rezoning are being brought forward. Can he confirm that the States are now going to get on and start building this and provide a much-needed boost to the economy and the construction sector? I would just like to note also briefly, and give praise ..

The Bailiff :

If it is a question, not a speech. Senator L.J. Farnham :

Thank you, Sir. I just wanted to ask if there were any plans to extend the scheme as set up by the National Trust into covering other areas of the environment. The National Trust scheme is particularly good and I would encourage that to be built upon. My real question is [Laughter] I want to ask particularly why he has selected the Minister for Treasury and Resources and the Minister for Economic Development to carry out the roles as he has explained in the statement, and ask if he intends to utilise the energies of other States Members to assist in the tasks he has set out.

The Bailiff :

The Senator is only entitled to ask one question, so can you pick which one you want to ask .. Senator L.J. Farnham :

I want to ask the last question, Sir. Thank you very much.

The Bailiff :

I am not sure I am going to allow that. The Chief Minister can choose, because you asked so many questions, you must take the consequences of having asked so many. Now, Chief Minister, you choose which one to answer.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

Sir, I think you have just given away one of the great joys of answering Ministerial questions: the more questions that a Member asks, the Minister then gets to choose which to answer, because you will stop us in short order. I shall try, however, and answer all 3 of them.

The Bailiff :

No, just one. Senator I.J. Gorst :

Well, perhaps I shall answer the one most pertinent to the statement, which is about stimulating the economy, getting the construction industry back up off its knees and ensuring that there is a supply of affordable and social housing. Ministers believe that the process that we have put in train now, being absolutely clear about what is happening with H3, it is not being brought forward: extraction of value from land is being worked on by the new team. We believe that that will allow land owners to come forward, developers to come forward and start to build and help the construction industry. We also believe that by bringing forward the rezoning we will be bringing forward delivery of social and affordable housing, around 500 units, and we are aiming that, notwithstanding the process that needs to take place from the Environment Department - which I hope will be completed by the end of this year - that other sites will be brought forward. But they will be able to be started to be built, or shovels put in the ground, early next year and that 500 can be brought forward and delivered between now and 2014 and 2015.

The Bailiff :

Very well. That brings questions to an end. Perhaps I can just elaborate as to why I was strict with Senator Farnham there, but question time, of whatever nature it is, is limited and if Members start

asking 3 or 4 questions rolled into one, it means that other Members simply do not get the chance to answer questions. [Approbation]

Senator L.J. Farnham :

Thank you, Sir. I did happen to realise that I was the last speaker, so I was just trying to get extra value for the Assembly. [Laughter]

PUBLIC BUSINESS - resumption

3. Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority: re-appointment of Chairman (P.32/2013) The Bailiff :

It was a good try, Senator. Very well. So that completes questions following the statement, so we now come back to Public Business. The next matter is Projet 32 - Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority: re-appointment of Chairman - lodged by the Minister for Economic Development. I will ask the Greffier to read the proposition.

The Deputy Greffier of the States:

The States are asked to decide whether they are of opinion, in accordance with Article 3(1)(a) of the Competition Regulatory Authority (Jersey) Law 2001, to appoint Mr. Mark Boleat as a member and non-executive Chairman of the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority for a further period of 3 years from 21st April 2013.

3.1 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Economic Development):

Under Article 3(1)(a) of the Competition Regulatory Authority Law 2001, it is for the States to appoint one member of the Authority as Chairman, upon the recommendation of the Minister for Economic Development. Mr. Mark Boleat has served as Chairman of the Authority since 2010, when he was appointed to the position following the tragic death of Lord Kingsland, the previous Chairman. This proposition asks Members to approve the reappointment of Mr. Boleat for a further period of 3 years, a 3-year term. During the debate on the initial appointment, I said that I felt the Chairman must bring an understanding of scale and proportionality to the role while pursuing the Authority's core objective of enhancing efficiency and competition in the Island. To me, this meant that the issues in which the Authority should involve itself were those which would be of an everyday effect on the average person in Jersey. I said this because in 2010 the J.C.R.A. (Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority) had something of a reputation for dealing with international matters that did not really concern us here in Jersey. This criticism was not entirely fair as many of the actions taken by the J.C.R.A. are required by law, but it was true to say that there was scope for much more consideration to be given to local matters and the interests of local people. Since Mr. Boleat's arrival, there have been considerable changes. In the past 3 years, the Authority has investigated the cost of road fuel, heating oil and electricity; significant costs that affect most of us in Jersey and which have an indirect knock-on effect on the cost of goods and services within the Island. Not least among these was the recommendation in the report on road fuel that prices should be visible from the roadside to passing motorists. This recommendation was developed into a proposition by Senator Breckon and approved overwhelmingly by this Assembly. Following the approval of the proposition, my department incorporated this requirement into the Price Indictors Regulations so that petrol stations had to show prices by the roadside so customers knew exactly what they were paying before they pulled in. The effect of this simple change was remarkable. The States Statistics Unit has identified that between September and December 2012 the rolling 12- month average for R.P.I. (retail price index) fell from 2.8 to 2.1, in other words, a fall of 0.7 per cent, and the motoring group - basically the cost of driving a car - was the key contributor to this

fall in inflation. Now, this was not entirely due to the price of fuel as the cost of motor vehicles and insurance also fell, however, the Statistics Unit has identified that the cost of petrol and diesel fell by 10 pence and 6 pence per litre respectively in the period following the introduction of the J.C.R.A.'s recommendations into the law, which noticeably lowered our inflation rate.

[10:45]

This is what a competition authority can and should be achieving when it directs its resources towards matters which concern local people. This is the kind of work that the Authority is now doing under the leadership of Mark Boleat. The Authority has also published guidance for schools on how to introduce competition into the supply of their uniforms, which has resulted in second suppliers offering uniforms for some schools and a robust tender process being completed for uniform supply in others. The J.C.R.A. made suggestions to T.T.S. (Transport and Technical Services) about how taxi fares could be fairer and more transparent and continues to monitor the local market for heating oil where concerns persist over cost. The J.C.R.A.'s current major forthcoming piece of work in relation to competition is a market study into the retail supply of groceries. This is being conducted jointly with the Guernsey Competition and Regulatory Authority under the umbrella of the Channel Islands Competition and Regulatory Authorities, or C.I.C.R.A. as it is known, a pan-Channel Islands body which pools resources of the J.C.R.A. and G.C.R.A. for mutual benefit. Mr. Boleat has been instrumental in the development of the co- operative arrangement at the heart of C.I.C.R.A. In creating this pan-island body, immediate savings to the public have accrued from eliminating duplication of functions between the 2 authorities and appointing a single board and chief executive. This and other efficiencies mean that the annual competition law grants to the J.C.R.A. in 2013 is £300,000; that is £180,000 lower than it was back in 2008 but with no less functions. This is a theme that I like and, of course, Members will appreciate greater efficiencies and greater effectiveness driven by a positive change has been repeated in other areas such as the ports since, where we stripped-out £1 million in costs by such integration, and more can clearly be done. Back to Mr. Boleat, whose C.V. (curriculum vitae) is attached to the report and proposition. Members will note that since his initial appointment, he has also been appointed as Chairman of the Jersey Development Company. This reflects his value to the Island and the value which he is felt to add to other institutions. I am sure Members will need no reminding that he is also a Jerseyman. The Chairman is expected to undertake a minimum of 30 days per annum in his role as Chairman of both the J.C.R.A. and the Guernsey equivalent body, the G.C.R.A., at a total remuneration - [Laughter] sorry, perhaps I should try again: remuneration, or salary, is an easier way of putting it - to Jersey, and I do not want Members to miss the actual amount, so I will hesitate before I give it: £26,406. That is paid jointly from the department's competition law grant and the J.C.R.A.'s own funds. It is important, I think, to note the cost to Jersey has reduced further in the past year, which is a direct result of working co-operatively with Guernsey, a matter that I think we should consider doing in far more ways where there is clear mutual benefit. In conclusion, I strongly recommend the reappointment of Mr. Boleat as Chairman

of the J.C.R.A. for a further period of 3 years and ask Members for their support. The Bailiff :

Is the proposition seconded? [Seconded] Senator Ferguson?

1. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

I would ask the Minister when will the J.C.R.A. be looking at legal fees? I have the greatest admiration for Mr. Boleat, who is a classic example of local boy made good, however he is still also Chairman of the S.o.J.D.C. (States of Jersey Development Company) and can be considered to be conflicted on occasion. Now, when he was appointed, the Minister for Treasury and Resources said that the S.o.J.D.C. appointment was a temporary one. Will the Ministers tell us when the situation will be amended?

2. Deputy G.C.L. Baudains:

Following on from Senator Ferguson, I do know a little about Mr. Boleat, I did go to school with him, but the question I have for the Minister is: I have had the feeling over the last year or so that the J.C.R.A. seems to have been losing some of its previous energy, whether that is due to the departure of one of the chief executives or not, I am not sure, but my concern is that given the other commitments of Mr. Boleat both here and in the United Kingdom, can we be assured he does have sufficient time to apply to the job?

3. Connétable M.P.S. Le Troquer of St. Martin :

Just a query for the Minister: why is the appointment for 3 years, as Article 4(2) says: "Not exceeding 5 years" and under 4(3) the member can resign at any time before that?

4. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :

To respond to Senator Ferguson, as the shareholder representative for the States of Jersey Development Company, I am sure she will recall that Mr. Boleat's appointment as permanent Chairman, after his equally impressive tenure as temporary Chairman, was confirmed by this Assembly. I have not got the vote in front of me, but that has been confirmed. But also, to say to Senator Ferguson that there are arrangements both, as I understand it, within the board of the J.C.R.A. and indeed the board of S.o.J.D.C. that should, in the extreme case of there being any issues that conflict between the work of the competition authority and the S.o.J.D.C., then both boards have agreed a procedure in relation to dealing with the standing down or the isolation of Mr. Boleat for either of those things. So the protection that exists in many organisations and companies to ensure conflicts of interest .. the boards are responsible for the governance of those matters and I have full confidence in the fact that, in the event of an unlikely conflict in relation to that, those procedures are in place. While I am on my feet, having been involved in the J.C.R.A. for some time prior to becoming Minister, when we were both Minister and Assistant Minister, I absolutely endorse the comments that the Minister makes about how the J.C.R.A. is now performing and is now delivering on lowering inflation, increasing competition and making a relevance to consumers, not only in Jersey but in Guernsey too, as we increasingly have a single market. So I warmly welcome the proposal by the Minister.

5. Deputy R.G. Le Hérissier:

A bit like Deputy Baudains, I grew up on the same street at Mr. Boleat, as did, of course, the illustrious former Deputy of St. Martin . But I do not think the Minister for Treasury and Resources has answered the point. I think the issue with the Jersey Development Company, which I thought Senator Ferguson was bringing up, is that it could be argued by its very nature it is in competition with private developers; there is, in other words, a systemic issue as opposed to an issue where the Chairman should absent him or herself on occasions. It is a much deeper issue than I think the Minister is making out and it is a conflict between 2 roles which I find very, very uncomfortable.

6. Deputy M. Tadier :

Would the Minister just say how the £26,000 for 30 days' work works out per annum, as it is pro rata'd, and how that fits in with the £40,000 that Mr. Boleat gets for his States of Jersey Development Company work, whether that is the same tariff?

The Bailiff :

Does any other Member wish to speak? Then I invite the Minister to reply.

7. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I thank Members for their comments. Senator Ferguson asked about legal fees. Of course, any member of the public, or indeed any Member of this House, is perfectly at liberty to raise issues with the J.C.R.A. on matters they feel need investigation, and I would encourage the Senator, and I know there have been other Members within this Assembly who have interests in matters relating to legal fees. So if they raise that, I am sure the Competition Authority will look into the matter appropriately. With regard to conflict, which is raised by Senator Ferguson and again by Deputy Le Hérissier, there are indeed robust procedures in place to deal with matters of conflict. I take the latter point from the Deputy but, nevertheless, I feel those are appropriate. I should point out that there has been a case in the past where the Chairman is, for example, a governor at a local school, and, as I have mentioned in my opening remarks, the J.C.R.A. has undertaken a review of school uniform supplies and so on, and he absented himself from that particular process, as you would imagine. So the board is very clear, it has very clearly laid out procedures and I do not believe that a conflict should persist in that regard. Deputy Baudains first of all points out that he knows Mr. Boleat, which he does, as does indeed Deputy Le Hérissier and others; he, I am sure, will know of the boundless energy of Mr. Boleat. He asked the question as to whether or not he felt that he could deal with the heavy workload that he has in the many areas of responsibility that he deals with. I am confident that he can; it is 30 days a year that he has to commit. Of course, the key thing is, and we are very lucky to have a man of this ability who is also a Jerseyman and has his family here in the Island, he has good reasons to come here simply to visit his own family, and consequently it is fortunate that we are able to utilise his skills. I should point out that when he went through the original recruitment process, it was a very heavily-contested programme; there were 27 or 29 applications, if I remember correctly, and a very high-quality shortlist of 9, of which he came through, under the supervision of the Appointments Commission, on merit. So we have somebody with considerable abilities, and I think what the J.C.R.A. has achieved over the last few years and the dramatic change of direction to benefit local consumers, has been as a direct result of