States Meeting Transcript - 2nd June 2015

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 2nd JUNE 2015

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ......................................7

1. The Bailiff :..............................................................................7

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS..........................7

2. Resignation of the Connétable of Grouville as Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel............................................................................7

QUESTIONS......................................................................................7

3. Written Questions........................................................................7

1. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING TRAVEL EXPENDITURE:.............................................................7
2. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE LIVING WAGE:..................................................12
3. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING INCOME POVERTY: ..................................................14
4. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING WORLD EMPLOYMENT AND SOCIAL OUTLOOK:................15
5. DEPUTY P.D. McLINTON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING FINANCIAL SAVINGS:.............................................................................16
6. DEPUTY P.D. McLINTON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS:........................16
7. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE DISCRIMIBATION (JERSEY) LAW 2013:.........18
8. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING BUSINESS TRADING NAMES:......................................................18
9. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING PUBLIC SECTOR VOLUNTARY REDUNDANCY:..................................19
10. SENATOR Z.A. CAMERON OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING INVESTIGATIONS IN TO GENERAL PRACTITIONERS: 19
11. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES REGARDING ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT FOR ELECTED MEMBERS:............................................................................20
12. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING HERBICIDE PRODUCTS:...................21

4. Oral Questions...........................................................................22

1. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John of the Chief Minister regarding the United Kingdom referendum on membership of the European union:....................................22 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................22

1. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................22
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier:.......................................................22

2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence of the Chief Minister regarding the Dame Heather Steel report:....................................................................22 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................23

1. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................23
2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................23
3. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.......................................................23
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................23
5. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter:...................................................24

3. Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the Condor Liberation: .....................................................................25 Senator L.J. Farnham (The Minister for Economic Development):............................25

1. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................25
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................26
3. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................26
   4. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the disused Fort Regent swimming pool:................................................................26 Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources - rapporteur):.............................................................................27

4.4.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................27

5. Senator Z.A. Cameron of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding complaints investigated by the Primary Care Governance Team:.......................27 Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................28

1. Senator Z.A. Cameron:.................................................................28
2. Senator Z.A. Cameron:.................................................................28
3. Senator Z.A. Cameron:.................................................................28

6. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding possible future uses for the current Police Headquarters site at Rouge Bouillon: .........................................................................................29 Deputy E.J. Noel (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources - rapporteur):..............29

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................29
2. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................29
3. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................30
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................30
5. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................30
6. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................30
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................30
8. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................31
9. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................31

7. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Chief Minister regarding the provision of a BNP Paribas appraisal to the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel:.....................................31
8. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the provision of a BNP Paribas appraisal to the Corporate Services Scrutiny Panel:........31 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................31

1. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................32
2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................32

3. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................32
4. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................32
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................33
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................33
7. Deputy S.M. Brée of St. Clement:......................................................34
8. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................35
9. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................35

9. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Planning and Environment regarding the use of photovoltaics in Jersey:.................................................................35 Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin (The Minister for Planning and Environment): ..............35

4.9.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................36

10. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Chief Minister regarding the removal of revenue expenditure from the economy:.........................................................36 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................36

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................37
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................37

11. Senator Z.A. Cameron of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding complaints made against G.P.s (general practitioners): .................................37 Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................37

1. Senator Z.A. Cameron:..............................................................38
2. Senator Z.A. Cameron:..............................................................38
3. Senator Z.A. Cameron:..............................................................38
4. Senator Z.A. Cameron:..............................................................38

12. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of the Minister for Transport and Technical Services regarding a user-pays charge for waste disposal:....................................................39 Deputy E.J. Noel (The Minister for Transport and Technical Services):......................39

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................39
2. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................40
3. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................40
4. The Connétable of St. John : .........................................................40
5. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ...........................................................40
6. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour:..................................................41
7. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier : ............................................41
8. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier : ....................................................41
9. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................42
10. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :..............................................................42

5. Urgent oral questions....................................................................42

1. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding an agreement signed by UBS with the States of Jersey Development Company to move into the proposed Esplanade Quarter:...........................................................42 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................42

1. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................43
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................43
3. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................43
4. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................43
5. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................44
6. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................44
7. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier:........................................................45
8. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................45

9. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................45
10. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................45
11. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................46
12. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré: ...........................................................47

2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding legally- binding pre-lets in relation to the first building on the Jersey International Finance Centre, the robustness of financial estimates and financial assessment of the development:...........................................................................47 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................48

1. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................48
2. Deputy S.M. Brée:......................................................................48
3. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................49
4. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................49
5. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................49

6. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................50
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................50
8. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................51

6. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Planning and Environment ...........................................................................................51

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................51 The Deputy of St. Martin (The Minister for Planning and Environment):.....................52
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................52

6.2.1 Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................52

3. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................52
4. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................53

6.4.1 Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................53

5. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................54

6.5.1 Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................54

6. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................54
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................55

6.7.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................55

7. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Chief Minister............................55

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................56 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................56

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................56
   2. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................56
   3. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................56

7.3.1 Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................57

4. Deputy R.J. Renouf of St. Ouen:........................................................57

7.4.1 The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................58

5. Connétable S.A. Le Sueur -Rennard of St. Saviour:.....................................58
6. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................59
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................59

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................60

8. The Minister for Treasury and Resources - statement regarding the Jersey International Finance Centre ...........................................................60

8.1 Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):...................60

1. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................62
2. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................63
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................63
4. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................64
5. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................64
6. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................64
7. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................65
8. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................66

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................66 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................67 PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................67

9. Draft Restriction on Smoking (Motor Vehicles) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.36/2015) ...........................................................................................67

1. The Connétable of St. Peter (Assistant Minister for Health and Social Services - rapporteur):.............................................................................67

1. Deputy P.D. McLinton of St. Saviour:..................................................69
2. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary:........................................................70
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................70
4. Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity :..........................................................71
5. The Connétable of St. Peter:............................................................71

2. The Connétable of St. Peter:............................................................73

10. Draft Air and Sea Ports (Incorporation) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.5/2015)................74

1. Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources - rapporteur):......75
2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................79
3. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................80
4. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................81

5. Draft Air and Sea Ports (Incorporation) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.5/2015): second amendment (P.5/2015.Amd.(2)).........................................................81

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................82
2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.............................................................84
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................86

6. Draft Air and Sea Ports (Incorporation) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.5/2015) - resumption.87

7. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................88

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................88
2. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.............................................................88

8. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................89

1. Connétable J.E. Le Maistre of Grouville :............................................89
2. Deputy S.M. Brée: ..................................................................89
3. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.............................................................90

11. Draft Aircraft Registration and Air Navigation (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.38/2015)....................................................................91

1. Senator L.J. Farnham (The Minister for Economic Development):......................91
2. Senator L.J. Farnham :..................................................................91

12. Draft Discrimination (Sex and Related Characteristics) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.40/2015)...............................................................................93

1. Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security):....................94
2. Deputy S.J. Pinel:......................................................................95

3. Deputy S.J. Pinel:......................................................................95

4. Draft Discrimination (Sex and Related Characteristics) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.40/2015): amendment (P.40/2015 Amd.).............................................96

12.4.1 Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :.............................................................96

5. Draft Discrimination (Sex and Related Characteristics) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.40/2015): amendment (P.40/2015 Amd.) - amendment (P.40/2015 (Amd.Amd.))..97

1. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. John : ....................................................97
2. Deputy S.J. Pinel:....................................................................97
3. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................98

6. Draft Discrimination (Sex and Related Characteristics) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.40/2015): amendment (P.40/2015 Amd.) - as amended ..............................99

7. Draft Discrimination (Sex and Related Characteristics) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.40/2015) - resumption - as amended .................................................99

1. Deputy S.J. Pinel:....................................................................99
2. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................99
3. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................99
4. Deputy S.J. Pinel:..................................................................100

8. Deputy S.J. Pinel:.....................................................................100
9. Deputy S.J. Pinel:.....................................................................101 12.10 Deputy S.J. Pinel:.....................................................................101

1. Senator P.F. Routier:............................................................101
2. Deputy J.M. Maçon:.............................................................101
3. The Deputy of St. Ouen : ........................................................101
4. Deputy S.J. Pinel:................................................................101

13. Draft Employment (Amendment of Law) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.41/2015) ....103

13.1 Deputy S.J. Pinel (The Minister for Social Security):..................................103

14. Draft Criminal Procedure (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.43/2015)..............................................................................105

1. Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):...............................................105
2. Senator I.J. Gorst :.....................................................................105

1. Deputy M. Tadier :..................................................................106
2. Senator I.J. Gorst : ..................................................................106

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ..................108

15. Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): ..........................................................................108

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................108

[9:32]

The Roll was called and the Greffier of the States led the Assembly in Prayer. COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

1. The Bailiff :

I am sure Members will be aware that Mr. Peter Hanning, the former Connétable of St. Saviour, died on 18th May after a long illness. Mr. Hanning was Connétable between 24th August 2007 and October 2011 when he lost his seat in the general election. Apart from his work in the Parish and in this  Assembly Mr. Hanning States' work  involved sitting as a member of the Privileges and Procedures Committee during the time that that committee developed the Freedom of Information Law. He sat on the Planning Applications Panel where he served from September 2007 until November 2010 and he was a member of the Corporate Services Sub-Panel reviewing the proposed importation of bovine semen, which the panel recommended that this took place. He was a great believer in the importance of the community demonstrated by many examples but perhaps none more telling than his support of the primary school visits to the States Chamber. During his time as a States Member he attended every visit by St. Saviour schools. Peter Hanning was a gentleman. This is an overworked description and frequently does not really fit the man but in this case it does. He was unfailingly courteous even when agitated about the subject matter of the debate. He was unfailingly kind in his treatment of those about him and his contributions in debates were measured and thoughtful. I know Members will join me in expressing our admiration for Mr. Hanning and on your behalf I extend our sympathy to his widow and his family. I ask Members to stand in his honour in the usual way. [Silence] May he rest in peace. There is nothing further under A.

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

2. Resignation of the Connétable of Grouville as Chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel

The Bailiff :

The Connétable of Grouville has written to me in the following terms: "I am writing to notify you in accordance with provisions of Standing Order 137(2)(b) that for personal family reasons I wish to resign as chairman of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel. I was advised by the Greffier this could be done with immediate effect. I would be grateful if you would notify the States of my decision so that my resignation becomes known and so that necessary steps can be taken to appoint a new chairman." The panel continues under its vice-chairman for the time being and Members will no doubt wish to give consideration to the possibility of electing a new chairman at the next sitting.

QUESTIONS

3. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING TRAVEL EXPENDITURE:

Question

Could the Chief Minister provide details of the total amounts spent on flights for each Minister and Assistant Minister since 1st January 2014, breaking the information down per Minister/Assistant Minister per month?

Answer

Please find below the details of the total amounts spent on flights for each Minister and Assistant Minister since January 2014.

2. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE LIVING WAGE:

Question

Will the Chief Minister circulate to members the paper entitled Living wage number report' which underpins the Living Wage report?

Will he also show the figures and the calculation used to arrive at the row "Total disposable income" in tables 11, 13, 16, 19 and 21 of the above document?

What explanation can he offer for the anomaly in the London Minimum Income Standards (MIS) figures which purport to show that it is on average some 36% less expensive to live in London than it is in the rest of the UK when this is contradicted by Statistics Unit figures comparing Jersey costs with those in the UK?

Will he further explain to members why, despite this anomaly, he has used the London MIS in the tables concerning the New Zealand and Vancouver estimates?

Does he accept that rather than claiming that the living wage is already met by the combination of minimum wage and income support it would be better to state that the living wage for Jersey is to be found in the outside London estimate in Table 16 and 17 as between £6.53 and £12.28 or as a weighted average of £8.92 based on 2013 figures?

Answer

The Living wage number report (Numbers Report) is a technical report that was provided in draft and in confidence to the Health & Social Security Scrutiny Panel, in accordance with the Scrutiny Code of Practice. The Scrutiny Panel also received a private briefing on that report.

The draft report was confidential because it contains information from other jurisdictions which we do not have permission to put into the public domain. It is also a highly technical document that requires additional context and briefing to aid understanding, as demonstrated by this question.

(Please note, the Living Wage Number Report is distinct from the Living Wage Executive Summary, the Detailed Living Wage Report, and the Economic Assessment previously published on 13 May 2015.)

Will he also show the figures and the calculation used to arrive at the row "Total disposable income" in tables 11, 13, 16, 19 and 21 of the above document?

Total Disposable Income in table 11, 13, 16, 19 and 21 of the Numbers Report is the sum of:

1. net earnings at a particular wage rate (net being after social security contribution and income tax are deducted) plus
2. any in-work benefits the household is eligible for (in-work benefits being income support).

All the values are in 2013 terms and all figures have been rounded to the nearest 10p. The tables cannot be replicated without breaching confidentiality.

What explanation can he offer for the anomaly in the London Minimum Income Standards (MIS) figures which purport to show that it is on average some 36% less expensive to live in London than it is in the rest of the UK when this is contradicted by Statistics Unit figures comparing Jersey costs with those in the UK?

The living wage campaign for London and the National (outside London), living wage campaign have chosen different minimum income standards and different methodologies to calculate their respective living wage rates. These are independent organisations and there is no agreed methodology for setting a living wage rate. The difference may arise from the London and Outside London Living Wage groups choosing to include different items, and allocate different costs to those items in the respective shopping baskets of household goods (minimum income standards) that underpin their calculations. This was indicated in Table 4 of the detailed living wage report.

All living wage organisations make pragmatic decisions about what is and is not included in their shopping baskets. If items are excluded from a basket in one jurisdiction, but included in another this will affect the basic living costs target' the household is required to meet. Similarly organisations can, and do, choose to include the same items but associate different values to those items, either because they associate a higher cost to the item, or because more of these items are included in that basket.

Establishing and maintaining a Minimum Income Standard for a range of households requires extensive research and a substantial ongoing commitment. As such, living wage organisations make pragmatic decisions about how frequently these are updated.

The Statistics Unit data is not relevant in this context because it focuses on the cost of individual items, not on the number or type of items in each basket. The Statistics Unit figures have been used to estimate the Jersey cost of the London MIS.

Will he further explain to members why, despite this anomaly, he has used the London MIS in the tables concerning the New Zealand and Vancouver estimates?

As explained in the published report on the living wage investigation, it has not been possible to apply the outside London living wage calculation to Jersey, due to the capping mechanisms included in the outside London methodology.

The first cap limits the increase in net household income in line with the rise in net income that would be achieved by someone on average earnings. The second cap limits the increase in the living wage itself relative to the increase in average earnings. This capping is undertaken to limit the impact on employers. Capping the living wage is perceived by many campaigners to be fundamentally at odds with a living wage philosophy, as the wages are supposed to be free from the pressures exerted by market forces.

Any other calculations based on the methodology of other jurisdictions would be based on the London MIS because the calculations can be fully replicated in Jersey.

Does he accept that rather than claiming that the living wage is already met by the combination of minimum wage and income support it would be better to state that the living wage for Jersey is to be found in the outside London estimate in Table 16 and 17 as between £6.53 and £12.28 or as a weighted average of £8.92 based on 2013 figures?

This question specifically refers to a figure in an unpublished document. However, the answer will be no, as explained in the detailed living wage report it is not possible to fully replicate the Outside London rate because it is capped using two different mechanisms, as explained above, and the pre- capped information is not available.

The detailed  living wage report (7.2.7) offers a list of considerations for any organisation or individual wishing to calculate a living wage rate. These decisions heavily influence any living wage rate.

3. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING INCOME POVERTY:

Question

Figures produced by the UK Office of National Statistics (ONS) this week shows that one third of the UK population experienced income poverty (disposable income below 60% of median) in at least one year between 2010 and 2013, compared with 25% in the rest of Europe. What equivalent figures, if any, does the Chief Minister have for Jersey?

To what extent does the Chief Minister consider that figures like these are in part the product of, and not improved by, austerity measures such as reducing the public sector workforce and services, and cutting benefits as proposed by both the UK government and the Council of Ministers?

What estimates, if any, does the Chief Minister have for the impact on poverty figures of the proposed savings programme involving some £125m of savings and charges especially for pensioners, and lone parents who are 40% and 60% prone to falling into income poverty as defined above?

Answer

The Statistics Unit run an Income Distribution Survey approximately every 5 years. The most recent data relates to 2009/10. The analysis identified that:

• 13% of households had an income below 60% of the median household income (termed relative low income') before housing costs, and
• 21% of households had an income (relative low income') below 60% of the median household income after housing costs are taken into account.

Comparison with the UK focussed on the proportion of individuals living in a relative low income household both before and after housing costs. The Jersey figures were compared with the most recently available UK statistics at the time.

• One in eight (12%) of individuals in Jersey were living in relative low income in 2009/10 before housing costs, compared to 18% of individuals in the UK (UK data source: "Households Below Average Income 2008/09" report, ONS).
• After housing costs are taken into account, 19% of individuals in Jersey were living in relative low income in 2009/10, compared to 22% of individuals in the UK in 2008/09.

The Income Distribution Survey 2014/2015 is currently underway, with the year-long data collection phase now closing. Results are expected by the end of 2015, and will provide updated information on the level of median household income, and the proportions of households and individuals living in households with less than 60% of the median household income (i.e. living in relative low income) for the period 2014/15.

To compare the fiscal measures undertaken by the UK government with those in Jersey is not informative. The decisions taken in the UK have meant that departmental expenditure has fallen in real terms every year since 2010, and further reductions are planned in coming years. In Jersey, we have continued to support public services since the global financial crisis and undertaken additional investment through fiscal stimulus.

The measures being considered over the life of the next Medium Term Financial Plan will fund increases in expenditure in areas like health and education, while looking at where savings can be made across all departments. They do not represent a reduction in public spending of £125 million.

As to the impact of the spending proposals, this is a complex picture. Much of the extra spend in health and education will help people at the margins of our society, like the planned pupil premium' which directs resources to those families who are most in need, and the investment in health as our society ages. Furthermore, when making savings, the emphasis is on public sector efficiency, not on service reduction, and any impact on individuals will be carefully considered.

The "Resource Statement to the draft Strategic Plan" lodged on the 23rd April, 2014, was clear that changes in the benefit regime, for example, would be focused on supporting financial independence, targeting benefits to those most in need, and limiting the impact on individuals. The full plans will be outlined in the Medium Term Financial Plan, including savings and the reprioritisation programme.

Putting Jersey's public finances on a sustainable basis will allow continued funding of key public services, investment in our infrastructure, and the stability and confidence needed to facilitate future economic growth. This will ensure that Islanders from all walks of life benefit from the decisions we make.

4. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING WORLD EMPLOYMENT AND SOCIAL OUTLOOK:

Question

Has the Chief Minister read the International Labour Organisation report "World Employment and Social Outlook" which points out that the global shift to insecure jobs (as indicated by temporary, short-term or zero-hours contracts and mock self-employment) since the financial crisis has fuelled growing inequality especially in the UK where salaried work is declining as a proportion of total employment?

What lessons does the Chief Minister believe that the report findings have, if any, for the growth of inequality in the Jersey economy?

In the face of evidence that half of new jobs created in Jersey in recent months are insecure zero- hours employment, does the Chief Minister concur with the report conclusions that insecure employment leads to a "vicious circle of weak demand and slow job creation" and, if so, what measures do he and other Ministers plan to take to prevent this?

Answer

I have not read the International Labour Organisation report "World Employment and Social Outlook". For Jersey, however, the Income Distribution Survey is run every five years, as the primary source of information of income equality, and will next report at the end of 2015. Only then will we have an objective measure to track what has happened over the last few years.

We do have, however, an increasingly positive set of economic indicators on earnings, inflation, employment, unemployment, retail sales, and business outlook. These are encouraging figures, which show more people in work, and earnings outstripping inflation.

In particular, employment rose by nearly 2,000 in 2014 to a record high. This included a substantial proportion of zero hour contract staff, and while this is something to be monitored, zero hour contracts are a valid part of a flexible labour market, and have a role to play for both employers and employees.

There is a risk that job insecurity can impact on demand and employment creation but it is not clear that is the situation in Jersey, particularly when employment is rising and unemployment falling. It is pleasing that the ILO refer to the need to stimulate investment opportunities to boost job creation and productivity, as this endorses the approach set out in the Strategic Plan and underpinning the next MTFP.

5. DEPUTY  P.D.  McLINTON  OF  ST.  SAVIOUR  OF THE  CHAIRMAN  OF  THE PRIVILEGES  AND  PROCEDURES COMMITTEE  REGARDING  FINANCIAL SAVINGS:

Question

Given that all States departments are being expected to make considerable ongoing savings does PPC consider that such financial savings should also be made in relation to the functioning of the States Assembly and, if so, would PPC consider bringing forward for approval amendments to Standing Orders to limit members to two written questions and two oral questions per sitting of the Assembly?

Answer

A majority of members of PPC agree that the States Assembly should participate fully in the current initiatives to reduce States expenditure and, although the budget of the States Assembly is set by PPC without interference from the Council of Ministers, PPC has already notified the Minister for Treasury and Resources that it is content to make savings in the Assembly budget that match the percentage reductions being made in ministerial departments. PPC has not yet finalised the precise details of how these savings will be made but is satisfied that it can achieve a total on- going annual saving of £392,000 by 2019. If the States agree to the filming and web-streaming of the Assembly there will be an additional need for savings to offset that cost as PPC has agreed to absorb the cost of filming within its current cash limits.

PPC does not, however, believe that it would lead to any noticeable  financial savings in the Assembly's budget if the number of written questions were restricted to two per member per sitting as suggested by the questioner. In addition PPC considers that questions are an important way for members to hold Ministers and other officeholders to account and the committee has no current plans to amend Standing Orders to change the provisions on the number of questions permitted.

6. DEPUTY P.D. McLINTON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS:

Question

Will the Chief Minister –

1. provide the total number of Freedomof Information (FOI) requests that have been received to the end of April 2015?
2. inform members how much has beenspentonFOIsincethe Assembly decided to implement the Law and will he also advise the number and cost of providing answers to FOI requests separately from the public and the media?
3. state whether departments will be receiving extra resources in the future to deal with FOI requests or whether they will have to divert resources away from providing other services to the public to deal with requests?

Answer

1. 284 FOI requests were received to the end of April 2015.
2. The spending detailed below does not represent the full cost of FOI. It covers set-up costs, the central  FOI  team and  extra staff  employed  throughout  the  organisation  to support departments.

The spending does not include the time other departmental staff spend researching and answering the questions. That cost is absorbed into the running of departments as staff do this work alongside business as usual.

Spending to date

2012 £22,200

2013  £111,955

2014  £1,115,915

2015 (to April 30) £489,780 2015 (forecast May 1 to Dec 31) £1,010,220 Total projected programme spend £2,825,970

FOI costs are not tracked by the type of requester, so it is not possible to provide the cost of providing answers for the public as compared to the media.

3. All FOI funding currently ends at the end of2015. After that, funding is dependent on proposals in the Medium Term Financial Plan.

Departmental  staff  will  continue  to  be  responsible  for  researching  and  answering  FOI requests in addition to carrying out their daily duties.

7. DEPUTY  S.Y. MÉZEC  OF ST.  HELIER  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE DISCRIMIBATION (JERSEY) LAW 2013:

Question

What plans, if any, are there to introduce religion' as a protected characteristic under the Discrimination (Jersey) Law 2013?

Answer

There are currently no plans to introduce religion as a protected characteristic. The States Assembly committed in 2011 to introducing protection against discrimination on grounds of race, sex, age and disability. The anticipated timetable to introduce these characteristics runs to 2018. The States Assembly may decide that further protected characteristics should be added in the future, subject to financial and manpower resources.

8. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING BUSINESS TRADING NAMES:

Question

Would the Chief Minister set out the requirements that exist for businesses to register the name they are trading under and state who is responsible for policing whether businesses are following those rules?

What penalties are there for businesses which trade under names they have not registered and which purport to be a limited company when they are not?

Answer

The Registration of Business Names (Jersey) Law 1956 sets out the requirements for businesses to register the names they are trading under.

Article 2(1) of the Registration of Business Names Law states that the Registrar of Business Names is the Registrar of Companies, appointed pursuant to Article 196 of the Companies (Jersey) Law 1991, namely an officer appointed by the Jersey Financial Services Commission. The current Registrar is the Director General of the Jersey Financial Services Commission.

Article 9 of the Registration of Business Names Law deals with penalties for default in registrations.

If any insular authority, such as the Registrar of Business Names, were made aware of an allegation that the Registration of Business Names Law was being infringed, the matter would be referred to the police for investigation and to the Attorney General for potential prosecution. Prosecution would not necessarily be limited to those actions falling under the Registration of Business Names Law, as using a misleading business name with the requisite intent could amount to fraud.

In addition to the requirements under the Registration of Business Names Law, there are a number of licensing requirements in the Control of Housing and Work (Jersey) Law 2012 (the "CHWL") that are likely to be relevant to any business operating in Jersey. Licenses under the CHWL are issued by the Population Office and if someone were carrying on an undertaking without an appropriate license, the Population Office may serve a notice to cease operation. If the notice were not complied with, the Population office would apply to the Royal Court for an Order requiring the person to cease the illegal undertaking.

9. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING PUBLIC SECTOR VOLUNTARY REDUNDANCY:

Question

What information, if any, is being given to public sector workers about their entitlement to Income Support if they take up voluntary redundancy under the scheme recently announced?

Answer

Social Security has provided guidance on voluntary redundancy and income support. This information was included in the information on the voluntary redundancy scheme which was made

available to States employees on June 1st 2015. The details can be found on gov.je.

Social Security has also offered to meet individuals on a one to one basis to discuss the personal implications of accepting redundancy.

10. SENATOR Z.A. CAMERON OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING INVESTIGATIONS IN TO GENERAL PRACTITIONERS: Question

1. Would the Minister state how much money has been spent on the 46 investigations into general practitioners undertaken by the Primary care governance team and Wessex?
2. Were any patient safety issues found that necessitated subsequent disciplinary action? Answer

1. Would the Minister state how much money has been spent on the 46 investigations into general practitioners undertaken by the Primary care governance team and Wessex?

The investigation of complaints is one component of the Primary Care Governance Team's role and responsibilities. The team provides the clinical and corporate governance framework for primary care and, as well as dealing with complaints, supports GPs and practices in delivering high quality care to patients.

Investigations account for a relatively small part of the team's overall workload. Therefore it is not possible to quantify how much of the team's time is taken up with this one aspect, and to say how much of the team's overall budget of around £310,000 in 2014 is accounted for by this one area. The Primary Care Governance Team is funded through the Health Insurance Fund as agreed by the States when the primary care governance arrangements were established.

All complaints are considered carefully, whether or not a formal investigation takes place. Whilst it is clearly important to ensure that the costs of any investigation are managed carefully, the main concern is to ensure the standards and the quality of primary care are assured and that patients in Jersey can have the confidence that GPs are up-to-date and fit to practise.

2. Were any patient safety issues found that necessitated subsequent disciplinary action?

To safeguard the confidentiality of both the patient and the GP, the results of investigations are not made public.

Since the Primary Care Governance Team's inception, the Medical Director has required doctors to address issues that have arisen out of investigations. These actions are usually agreed informally, although undertakings may be required from the doctor. This has occurred on one occasion.

Whilst the Medical Director, in consultation with appropriate experts and regulatory authorities, has the power to suspend or restrict the practice of a GP, these formal powers have not proved necessary in Jersey. Rather it has been the case that GPs readily seek to improve the quality of their practise and engage with educational plans.

11. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES REGARDING ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT FOR ELECTED MEMBERS:

Question

Will the Chairman provide a comparison of secretarial, administrative support and office accommodation that is made available to other Commonwealth parliamentarians and, if this information is not readily available, undertake to undertake some research in this regard and report back to the Assembly to ensure that Jersey is providing optimal support for its elected representatives to carry out their work most effectively in the public interest?

Answer

PPC as currently constituted, or as previously constituted, has not to date undertaken any comparative survey of the facilities available for members in Jersey against those available to members in other Commonwealth parliaments. PPC did however undertake a comprehensive survey of States members in 2009 to ascertain members' views on improving facilities but the percentage of respondents who considered that improvements were needed was relatively small. Only 26% of respondents thought that a library with no staffing should be established and the same percentage thought that researchers and/or a research budget should be available to States members. Only 18% of respondents thought that a library with staff should be created. In light of the survey results no significant changes to the facilities for members were proposed by PPC at the time.

PPC has not discussed the request made by the questioner and I have therefore asked for this matter to be included on our next agenda so that PPC can decide whether it would be worthwhile to undertake the study requested by the questioner.

12. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER  FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT REGARDING HERBICIDE PRODUCTS:

Question

Will the Minister confirm the legal status of herbicide products containing glyphosphate and state whether he has information on how much of it is sold and used in Jersey and whether he accepts research that suggests it is probably carcinogenic to humans'?

Will the Minister inform members if there are any plans to ban or mitigate its use and availability in Jersey? Answer

The storage, sale, supply and use of pesticides in Jersey is regulated and controlled by the Pesticides (Jersey) Law 1991 (the Law).

The Law permits the use of a list of approved' herbicides and pesticide products. This list mirrors the list of approved products compiled by the UK Chemicals Regulation Directorate (CRD) in the Pesticides Register of UK Authorised Products.

The replication of the UK CRD list in the Island's legislation, means that products that have been revoked or introduced in the UK can be quickly updated in Jersey. The island also benefits from the in-depth research that is required to keep the list current and safe for the environment and human health.

When referring to glyphosphate in his question I am assuming the Deputy means glyphosate. The herbicide Glyphosate is the active ingredient in a range of agricultural (professional) and domestic (amateur) herbicides. It is listed in the UK CRD and hence has approval for use in Jersey.

Glyphosate was contained in nine separate commercial herbicide products that were imported through the merchants in 2013. In this year, records show that the total volume of product containing of glyphosate was 3,300 litres. The products were mainly used by commercial growers to control the growth of weeds. All commercial users are trained and hold certificates in the safe use of herbicides. The above figures exclude amateur or domestic products.

The International Agency for Research (IARC) on Cancer have classified glyphosate as probably carcinogenic to humans'. Officers from Public Health concur with the classification and conclusions of the IARC.

Glyphosate remains as an approved product on the UK CRD list. It is not anticipated that the Minister will remove glyphosate independently of a decision by the UK at this stage.

4. Oral Questions

Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour :

I wonder if before we do that, I have just seen a message from Deputy Higgins who has informed me that he is currently malade, and I wonder if I could take that and amend the record.

The Bailiff :

Deputy Higgins is entered as malade.

[9:45]

1. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John of the Chief Minister regarding the United Kingdom referendum on membership of the European union:

Could the Chief Minister confirm what, if any, consideration has been given to ascertaining whether Jersey citizens will be able to vote in the forthcoming referendum in the United Kingdom on membership of the European Union?

Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):

Yes, consideration has been given to this issue; however, although our interests are clearly affected by the outcome of the referendum, I do not believe it is constitutionally appropriate for Jersey as a jurisdiction to take part in the forthcoming United Kingdom referendum on their membership of the E.U. (European Union).

1. The Connétable of St. John :

Has the Chief Minister liaised with other Crown Dependencies and are we unified in our approach to this question?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I am informed that we are.

2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier :

Given the Chief Minister's answer in which he accepts that this is something important for the Island, does the Chief Minister consider that there is a democratic deficit with regards to Islanders' relationship with the E.U. and would he think that it would be appropriate to look at changing that constitutional relationship in future?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I do not see the democratic deficit with regard to our relationship to the E.U. It is the current Government's policy not to seek to change our relationship either with the United Kingdom or with the E.U. Our relationship with the E.U. is governed by Protocol 3 but of course we put a lot of work into our relationship more broadly with the E.U. where they treat us as third countries and we have to show equivalence for all sorts of pieces of directive and legislation. We are not members of the E.U., unlike Gibraltar who will be taking part in the referendum because they are members of the E.U. There would be a democratic deficit if we were to vote on whether the U.K. (United Kingdom), who are members of the E.U. when we are not, telling them what they should do.

2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence of the Chief Minister regarding the Dame Heather Steel report:

Could the Chief Minister provide an update as to when the Dame Heather Steel report will be released?

Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):

In the terms of reference for the Steel report, the Bishop of Winchester undertook to supply a copy, when he received the report, to the Bailiff , the Dean and the United Kingdom Ministry of Justice. Terms of reference also provided that the report or a summary of its findings would be published. The Bishop of Winchester has not yet supplied the Steel report to the Bailiff , Dean or the U.K. Ministry of Justice so it has not yet been published in summary or redacted form. I will say, however, that I am greatly disappointed that this matter has not been brought to a swift conclusion. [Approbation]

1. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:

Just for the record, could the Minister confirm that the Bishop has received the report? Senator I.J. Gorst :

As far as I am aware that is the case.

2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:

For the purposes of fairness to everyone who has been involved, does he think that the report should be released as soon as possible and what measures is he going to take from now, within his powers, to secure the release without further significant delay?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I am not sure that it is in my power to force the Bishop of Winchester to release the report or I do not believe that there are necessarily mechanisms in place. I would have thought that the undertaking in the terms of reference and verbal conversations that I have had with the Bishop of Winchester previously, not necessarily about this report, about openness and transparency, making sure that the way that the church was acting was shown to be open and transparent and was shown to be undertaken in a timely manner would indicate that the Bishop is going to comply, I hope now speedily, with the terms of reference in that report. I should say this is not the only report. We of course then wait for the publication of the Gladwin Visitation report. Once those 2 reports have been published I understand that the Archbishop of Canterbury himself will then be setting up another commission to come and look at the relationship with the church, so this is part of a process and it needs to be got on with as swiftly as possible, and the undertakings in the terms of reference ought to be met as soon as possible.

3. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

Given that neither of the 2 main witnesses, the church warden or the complainant, HG, were called as witnesses to give evidence or gave evidence, does the Chief Minister agree that the report cannot be said to be a full account of what happened and is itself therefore discredited?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I have not seen the report. I have not been part of the methodology used in the report. The report was commissioned by the Bishop of Winchester in an independent process, so I have got no grounds to accept the comments that the Deputy is making.

4. Deputy M. Tadier :

Does the Chief Minister agree that generally, in the sense of natural justice, one would have expected in an investigation which was looking into abuse of a vulnerable person by the church in Jersey, one would expect both the alleged abuser and the abused person to have been called to give evidence and where that evidence has not been given the report at least must be said to be faulty.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

The Deputy seems to be drawing conclusions prior to the publication of the report. I am surprised to hear he does know what is in the report. I suspect he does not. The previous report written by Jan Korris was published, as I understand it, almost instantly that the Bishop received it. That set off a process. That report made claims and accusations that need to be appropriately addressed. I hope that the Steel report, followed by the Gladwin report, is going to address those issues so that the church and the community in Jersey can move forward.

The Bailiff :

Deputy , your question contains a statement which arguably could be criticised for misinformation. My understanding had been that the report was not into whether abuse had taken place but into the processes of the church in relation to the question, which is a different issue. It might not be necessary when looking at the processes of the church to ask the original complainant to give evidence. Is that a shared impression that you have? If so your question does not seem to be quite appropriate.

Deputy M. Tadier :

I am sure your intervention will be of interest but my point is that in the global context it is as a result of alleged abuse that had happened in the church, so globally I think the points are valid.

5. Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter :

I would just like to ask the Chief Minister that given the concern shown by Members here this morning raised by this question, the ongoing concern within the community of Jersey, and particularly within the church community of Jersey, and also in part of the church community within the United Kingdom, there is ongoing concern about the lack of this report being aired and is leaving Jersey still impugned in some regards with regard to the lack of the detail coming out. I would ask the Chief Minister: is he prepared to commit to use his best efforts to try and bring this matter to a conclusion?

Senator I.J. Gorst :

I am not the only one who is dedicating to endeavour that the terms of reference are adhered to in the way that was initially understood. I understand that at the heart of these reports are a vulnerable individual and their concerns must always be thought of, and the concerns remain. But the continuing lack of release, a lack of movement, is not helping, I do not believe, anyone or the church importantly, because it is not just about individuals, and ultimately therefore our community to move forward. These reports must be released so that we can all, if we need to, learn. If apologies need to be given they can be given so that we can all move forward.

The Bailiff :

We come to question 3 which Deputy Mézec will ask of the Minister for External Relations. Chief Minister.

Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

I did want to ask this to the Minister for External Relations not the Chief Minister so I would like to withdraw it then.

Deputy M. Tadier :

Can I ask on a point of order again? When did we know that the Minister for External Relations would not be here for question time because if we do know these things in advance we should not be able to put questions to a Minister who we know is going to be absent? It happened last time with a different Minister [Aside] .. same Minister in fact and it is courteous for Members to be able to know in advance.

Senator I.J. Gorst :

My experience is it is a jolly good bet that the Minister for External Relations might be out of the Island and not necessarily in the Assembly. I think I am right in saying that the duties of the External Relations Ministry are undertaken concurrently with the Chief Minister and therefore it should not matter whether it is myself or the Minister concerned answering the question. But I appreciate the concerns of the 2 Deputies. I understand that there is a protocol in Standing Orders that when those asking questions make it explicit that they would like to ask the question of the Minister then that question may need to be rearranged accordingly.

The Bailiff :

Greffier, was that notice given in this case? Deputy , on another occasion if you wish a particular Minister to answer the question then may I suggest that you give the Greffier notice. It is more difficult in the context of external relations because the States of Jersey Law does indeed provide that the Chief Minister has the responsibility for external relations as well.

3. Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development regarding the Condor Liberation:

Would the Minister advise Members what advice the Economic Development Department received in relation to the suitability of Condor Liberation for cross-Channel ferry operations and, in particular, detail what advice was received on the vessel's seaworthiness and unique design and indicate who provided that advice?

Senator L.J. Farnham (The Minister for Economic Development):

I think I would have preferred to stay en défaut for a few minutes longer. The Economic Development involvement through the Harbourmaster and Maritime Administration was to supervise but not to approve the company's introduction into service, including ensuring the various certification and safety provisions conducted by U.K. Maritime and Coastal Agency, as well as the registering authority in the Bahamas, and the professional classification society were carried out. It is the responsibility of the operator to obtain these certifications and without them they would be unable to trade commercially. Maritime authorities in the Channel Islands, U.K. and France are satisfied that due diligence has been taken by Condor Ferries and that all appropriate certification was in place prior to introduction into service. This certification will be regularly reviewed by the flag state in the Bahamas and if required can be inspected at any time by the relevant port authorities. Furthermore, as has been widely reported in recent days, the States of Jersey and Guernsey together with Condor Ferries have commissioned an independent report to confirm the sustainability and review the performance of Condor Liberation. The combination of the berthing incident, disappointing reliability and punctuality, together with some uncomfortable crossings have led to a raft of ill-informed and inaccurate comments which has undermined the confidence of some Islanders in the Condor Liberation. We want to draw a line under this speculation which is causing untold damage to the reputation of both the company and our tourism offering. Further details of this report, which will be funded by Condor Ferries, including the name of the independent body that will carry it out, will be finalised over the next few weeks and Members will receive from me later today a full letter of update on the Condor position.

1. Deputy R. Labey :

Most of the criticisms are not ill-informed speculation. They are fact, as perceived by ferry passengers, and I would invite the Minister to withdraw that. Some of these passengers are marine architects, naval engineers, one I read in the Guernsey press was a Royal Navy sailor with 35 years' experience on the high seas, 50 foot waves in the South Atlantic and never had seasickness until he travelled on the Liberation.

[10:00]

Does the Minister not accept that most of these complaints are legitimate and wholly justified and very damaging when they appear in TripAdvisor?

Senator L.J. Farnham :

No, I will not withdraw it and I do not agree with all of the reviews on TripAdvisor. I think we must separate safety from the comfort of a ride. Now the sea is a very unpredictable place to be. Many Members here have enjoyed a very pleasant crossing in the bar .. I mean on the Liberation from Guernsey to Jersey while we had flat seas then. The Channel is a notoriously challenging stretch of water and different ships have different characteristics. Now there have been some scurrilous and unsubstantiated scaremongering in my opinion on the safety of the vessel. I am not confusing that with discomfort. Of course we listen very carefully to those passengers who have suffered discomfort and we are putting pressure on Condor to investigate that, look into the characteristics of the ship to see if they can improve that. But I stand by my comments that there have been some scurrilous and inaccurate reviews on the ship's safety.

2. Deputy M. Tadier :

It sounds almost like the Minister is acting as a rapporteur for Condor rather than necessarily in the public interests which he should normally be doing. He has told us lots about the scurrilous rumours that have been going on about Condor but perhaps could he elucidate us on the concerns that he thinks are valid and which do need to be addressed by Condor on their new boat and which of the comments are factual and need addressing?

Senator L.J. Farnham :

I work in the best interests of this Island and the people of this Island, and our tourism industry and our economy. That is certainly not best served by pedalling ill-informed rumours about the safety of a ship. Condor provides a lifeline service in freight and they have maintained those schedules well during this difficult period and my department, together with my counterpart, my colleagues in Guernsey, the Minister for Commerce and Employment, the External Transport Group based in Guernsey, the Ferry Services Steering Group over here, are regularly holding Condor to account. We are meeting with them again at the end of next week in a joint Channel Islands session and the pressure is on for them to sort out the problems that they do have, which relate to customer service communication and understanding the discomfort of some passengers on the ship. But I am acting in all of our best interests.

3. Deputy R. Labey :

An independent review or inquiry has to be seen to be independent. If it is being paid for by Condor and Condor are appointing the board, the panel, the reviewers, does that look independent?

Senator L.J. Farnham :

Just to be clear, I do cover this point in the letter I am going to send to States Members later. The naval architects who will carry out the review will be appointed by the External Transport Group and the Ferry Services Steering Group and Condor will pay for it.

4. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the disused Fort Regent swimming pool:

Will the Minister state whether there has been any consideration given, or any approaches made, with a view to making the disused swimming pool area at Fort Regent into a temporary skate park; if not, why not and, if so, will the Minister give details?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

If I may, I would ask my Assistant Minister, Deputy Noel, to take this question. He has responsibility for the area.

Deputy M. Tadier

I do normally ask for the Minister for Treasury and Resources to answer the questions, and that is a standing position, but clearly for expedience in this case I will make an exception.

Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources -

rapporteur):

That is very kind of Deputy Tadier but I do believe that he is misinformed that it is a standing request.

Deputy M. Tadier :

I have the email. I am not misinforming anyone. I can dig the emails out and circulate them. But, as I have said, for expedience I am happy for the Assistant Minister who was not elected by this Assembly to do the job of the Minister for Treasury and Resources to answer that question under delegated responsibilities.

Deputy E.J. Noel:

There has been no recent consideration given or approaches made with regard to making the disused swimming pool area at Fort Regent into a temporary skate park. The disused pool area is in a significant state of disrepair and is awaiting demolition. The building is boarded up to keep it safe and secure and, as such, it is not appropriate for temporary use of any sort. Any proposals for the redevelopment of the pool for demolition and alternative use will require a planning application that details an alternative use. The Rediscovering Fort Regent project has proposed a provision of permanent beginner, intermediate and advanced skateboarding areas as part of the team/extreme sports zone to the northern end of the Fort site. This proposal is to be sited at the Snow Hill end and linked into the improved access from Snow Hill itself.

4.4.1 Deputy M. Tadier :

I thank the Minister for that information. I think that last bit of information will be positive to those who have an interest in those kind of extreme sports. Can the Minister perhaps give more detail on the planned timescale for the demolition of the swimming pool site at Fort Regent?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

The only indication I can give is that it would have to be part of .. we have taken advice on this, it would have to be part of a planning application to do so which serves up an alternative use and the alternative use would have to be funded. We are still working on that and it will be subject to funding it in the next M.T.F.P. (Medium-Term Financial Plan) and the following M.T.F.P. of the phasing of the redevelopment of Fort Regent.

5. Senator Z.A. Cameron of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding complaints investigated by the Primary Care Governance Team:

Had any of the G.P.s (general practitioners) investigated by the Primary Care Governance Team raised concerns about the management of patients by the department prior to receiving a complaint made against them by an employee from the Health and Social Services Department?

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

The simple and short answer is yes, but importantly the 2 are not linked, as the Senator may be implying. The second action was not prompted by the first. Put simply, the complaint from the employee about the G.P. was not because the G.P. had raised concerns about the management of patients. Clearly I cannot go into more detail because of patients' confidentiality. But I would like to remind Members that the Primary Care Governance Team is duty bound, as one would expect, to investigate all complaints.

1. Senator Z.A. Cameron:

Disciplinary action and investigation of doctors in the U.K. recently has been reported to lead to burnout, poor mental health, even suicide, reduction in productivity, and emigration that used to work in Jersey's favour. Is the Minister concerned that the threat of subsequent investigation by the department might deter doctors from raising patients' safety concerns in the future?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

First of all, I am not the Minister responsible for disciplinary action of G.P.s in the U.K. I am the Minister for Health and Social Services for Jersey. So far no disciplinary action has been taken against any G.P. The findings of the investigations and complaints that have been investigated, the findings have resulted in agreeing action plans appropriately with the G.P. and ensuring that there is perhaps training or change in behaviour.

2. Senator Z.A. Cameron:

We can however learn from the U.K. experience, and would he plan therefore to ensure that recommendations from the findings from the U.K., such as the Hooper review, be implemented to ensure patient safety is protected in Jersey?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

The whole point of having a P.C.G.T. (Primary Care Governance Team) group is exactly that we protect patients, and patients in Jersey are generally very pleased with their G.P. service. We have generally an excellent G.P. service but they must have the right, when they have exhausted the complaints procedure through their own G.P. practice, to take it somewhere, have it properly investigated. This is about learning together. The Senator is paranoid that people seem to want to go out and discipline people. It is about learning and improving services.

The Bailiff :

Minister, G.P. I think is an abbreviation with which we are all familiar. P.C.T.G.? Senator A.K.F. Green:

The performance list regulations health insurance for general medical practitioners. The Bailiff :

Very well. That might come as a surprise to some. Any other questions?

3. Senator Z.A. Cameron:

There have been 46 investigations already and I just wondered how that compared to similar places elsewhere and whether he would look into this?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

I am advised that we compare very well with the jurisdictions elsewhere and that there was no need for concern; that 46 is on the lower side of investigations for this size of population.

6. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding possible future uses for the current Police Headquarters site at Rouge Bouillon:

Can the Minister advise whether any discussions have been held and/or decisions taken place regarding possible future uses for the current Police Headquarters site at Rouge Bouillon and give details of these, given the forthcoming relocation of Police Headquarters to Green Street?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

This is another matter that I am going to pass to my Assistant Minister although I will reassure Members they are going to hear far too much from me later on today.

Deputy E.J. Noel (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources - rapporteur):

The relocation of the police station and headquarters to Green Street releases a considerable amount of land on the site of the former Summerland factory, Broadcasting House and Thorpe House to go with part of the current Police H.Q. (Headquarters) and Fire Service site on Rouge Bouillon in early 2017. The former Summerland factory, Broadcasting House and Thorpe House site, together with the current Ambulance Station site, has been identified for affordable housing. Consideration of

the 2 outlining planning applications for 152 properties on these 2 sites is pending completion, subject to the conclusion of a planning obligation agreement. It is proposed that the sites (when both are vacated) will be transferred to Andium Homes to prepare a detailed planning application and to develop out. A feasibility study will be undertaken this year to develop proposals for the co- location of the Fire and Ambulance Service on the current Police H.Q. and Fire Service site to provide a combined facility. However, capital funding to co-locate the fire and ambulance services is currently not proposed in the next Medium-Term Financial Plan. Funds are being sought to demolish the existing Police buildings and consideration has been given to using part of the site for a temporary car park.

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

Will any consideration be given to the adjacent primary school - Rouge Bouillon Primary School - given that this is a crowded town school with limited outside space, to some of that land on one of those sites being given to the school - to the Education Department - so that the children can have a playing field and some extra outside learning space?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Naturally we will be working in conjunction with both Andium Homes, who has an adjacent usage of the site, and also the Education Department to do exactly that to see what improvements can be made to the location. But in the short term we would like to utilise that site for a short-term car park for both residents in the area and for commuters coming down Queens Road.

2. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

The Assistant Minister said in his original answer the sites will be developed for affordable housing, and then he next said "will be turned over to Andium Homes". So will they be social rented or will they be first-time buyer or will there be a mix? Has this been thought through yet?