States Meeting Transcript - 23rd February 2016

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT

TUESDAY, 23rd FEBRUARY 2016

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ......................................8

1. Welcome to His Excellency The Lieutenant Governor..................................8 The Bailiff :....................................................................................8
2. Welcome to Deputy R.J. Rondel of St. Helier............................................8 The Bailiff :....................................................................................8

QUESTIONS ......................................................................................8

2. Written Questions........................................................................8

1. DEPUTY J.M. MAON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE PROCESSING OF IMPAIRMENT FORMS:.........8
2. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE FUTURE HOSPITAL WEBSITE: ..........9
3. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHIEF MINISTER

REGARDING LAWS ADOPTED BY THE STATES ASSEMBLY BUT NOT IN FORCE:.................................................................................9

4. THE DEPUTY OF GROUVILLE OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING BUDGETING FOR THE PROVISION OF THE EASTERN CYCLE NETWORK: ...........................................................................13
5. THE DEPUTY OF GROUVILLE OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE EXTENSION OF THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION LEGISLATION TO COMPANIES OWNED OR CONTROLLED BY THE STATES: .....................13
6. DEPUTY R. LABEY OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE PROVISION OF LOCAL WHOLESALE SERVICES BY J.T:..................14
7. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING THE ALLOCATION OF STATES MEMERS' PARKING SPACES: ..................................................................15
8. DEPUTY R. LABEY OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE SERVICE PROVIDED BY CONDOR FERRIES: .....................................15
9. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING SUPPORT PROVIDED TO JERSEY'S DIGITAL INDUSTRY:......................16
10. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE REGENERATION OF FORT REGENT:..............................................17
11. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING UNDERGROUND PARKING AT THE ESPLANADE:.........................................................................17
12. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING ALLOWANCES MADE TO CLIENTS OF LES AMIS: ..18

13. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHIEF MINISTER

REGARDING COMPLAINTS MADE ABOUT TELEPHONE PROVIDERS: ........19

14. DEPUTY J.A. HILTON OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF ASBESTOS IN SCHOOLS:.....................21
15. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE SITES SHORT-LISTED FOR THE NEW HOSPITAL: .....................................................................22
16. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR

TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE HEALTH CHARGE PROPOSED IN THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:.........................23

17. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING HOUSEHOLD INCOMES:............................................24
18. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING POTENTIAL REDUCTIONS IN RETAIL GAS TARIFFS:............25

2.20 DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING STATES MEMBERS' CAR PARKING:.........................................................27

3. Oral Questions ..........................................................................31

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St Helier of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding expressions of interest issued for gardeners and cleaners during ongoing

negotiations with the existing workforce: ..............................................31

Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (The Minister for Infrastructure):..........................31

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................32
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier : ......................................................32
3. Deputy S.Y. Mézec : ....................................................................33
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................33
5. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.......................................................33
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................34
7. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................34
8. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................34

9. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................34

2. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Minister for Infrastructure

regarding the timetable for the introduction of a charge for waste disposal: .........35

Deputy E.J. Noel (The Minister for Infrastructure): ..........................................35

1. The Connétable of St. Helier : ..........................................................35
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec : ....................................................................36
3. Deputy S.Y. Mézec : ....................................................................36
4. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence:.............................................36
5. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John:....................................................37
6. Deputy S.M. Wickenden of St. Helier:..................................................37
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................37
8. The Connétable of St. Helier : ..........................................................37

3. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding

funding the projected cost of the new hospital: ........................................38

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................38

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................38
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier : .......................................................38

3. Deputy J.A. Hilton: ....................................................................39
4. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................39
5. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................39
6. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier : ....................................................39
7. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ..................................................................40
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................40

4. Deputy J.A. Martin of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the public consultation on the new site for Jersey's hospital: ..............................40

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................41

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................41
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................41
4. Deputy J.A. Hilton: ....................................................................42
5. Deputy J.A. Hilton: ....................................................................42
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................42
7. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................42

5. Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville of the Chairman of the Comité des Connétable s regarding the Code of 1771: ............................................................43

Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement (Chairman, Comité des Connétable s):................43

1. The Deputy of Grouville : ..............................................................43
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec : ....................................................................43
3. Deputy S. Y. Mézec : ...................................................................43
4. The Deputy of Grouville : ..............................................................44

6. Deputy J.A. Hilton of the Chief Minister regarding the privatisation of aspects of

the Department for Infrastructure's service provision:................................44

Senator P.F. Routier (Assistant Chief Minister - rapporteur):.................................44

1. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................45
2. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................45
3. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................45
4. Deputy J.A. Hilton: ....................................................................46

7. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the allocation of funding to set up a Sexual Assault Referral Centre in Jersey: ......46

Deputy K.L. Moore of St. Peter (The Minister for Home Affairs):............................46

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................46
2. Deputy J.A. Hilton: ....................................................................46
3. The Deputy of Grouville : ..............................................................46
4. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................47

8. The Connétable of St. John of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the level of Vehicle Emission Duty payable on cars with no engine:...................47

Connétable J.M. Refault of St. Peter (Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources -

rapporteur):............................................................................47

1. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................47
2. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................47

9. Deputy R.J. Renouf of St. Ouen of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding annual pension statements issued to pensioners in receipt of a Social Security pension:........................................................................48

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................48

1. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................48
2. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................49
3. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................49
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................49
5. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour:.....................................................50

6. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................50

10. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the effect on economic growth of plans to increase taxes on middle earners: ....................50

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):.........................50

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................50
2. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier:....................................................51
3. Deputy A.D. Lewis :.................................................................51
4. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................51
5. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................52
6. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................52

11. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Housing regarding the average rental costs of residential accommodation per sector: .................................................53

Deputy A.E. Pryke of Trinity (The Minister for Housing):....................................53

1. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................53
2. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................53
3. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. John : ....................................................53
4. The Deputy of St. John : .............................................................54
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..............................................................54
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..............................................................54

12. Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the consultation process for the future hospital:............................54

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................54

1. Deputy R. Labey :....................................................................55
2. The Deputy of St. Ouen : ............................................................55
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................55
4. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................55
5. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................56
6. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................56
7. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary:.....................................................56
8. Deputy G.P. Southern :..............................................................56

13. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the ownership of People's Park:............................................................57

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................57

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................57
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................58

14. Deputy J.A. Martin of the Attorney General regarding the process for the compulsory purchase of People's Park:................................................59

Mr. R.J. MacRae , Q.C., H.M. Attorney General: .............................................59

1. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................59
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..............................................................60
3. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................60

15. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Social Security regarding the maximum accommodation components for Income Support:.....................................60

Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security): .........................60

1. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................61
2. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................61
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..............................................................61
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..............................................................61
5. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................61
6. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................62
7. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................62

16. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of the Chief Minister regarding the gender pay gap: ........62

Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................62

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : ............................................................63
2. Deputy M Tadier : ...................................................................63
3. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : ............................................................63

17. Deputy J.A. Hilton of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding regulatory standards for residential and nursing homes:..............................64

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................64 3.17.1 Deputy J.A. Hilton:..................................................................64

4. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for External Relations.........65

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................65 Senator P.M. Bailhache (The Minister for External Relations):...............................65
2. The Deputy of Grouville : ..............................................................65
3. Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ..............................................................66
4. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................66
5. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ..................................................................66

4.5.1 Deputy M.R. Higgins: ..................................................................67

6. Deputy S.Y. Mézec : ....................................................................67
7. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................68
8. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ..................................................................68

5. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Chief Minister ...........................68

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................68 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................69
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................69
3. Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ..............................................................69
4. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ..................................................................70
5. Deputy J.A. Martin:....................................................................71
6. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................71
7. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................71
8. The Connétable of St. Helier : ..........................................................72
9. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................72

STATEMENT ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY.........................72

6. Statement by the Chief Minister regarding the Independent Care Inquiry Budget..72

6.1 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):................................................72

1. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ..................................................................73
2. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................73
3. The Deputy of St. John:................................................................74
4. Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ..............................................................74
5. Deputy P.D. McLinton of St. Saviour:..................................................74
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................75
7. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ..................................................................75
8. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................76
9. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................76
10. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................76

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................77

7. People's Park: removal from list of sites under consideration for future new

hospital (P.3/2016).......................................................................77

Senator A.K.F. Green:........................................................................77 7.1 The Connétable of St. Helier : ..........................................................77 7.1.1 Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................77

8. Draft Dentistry (Jersey) Law 2015 (Appointed Day) Act 201- (P.2/2016) .............78

8.1 Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):..................78

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED .................................................80 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT ................................................................80

9. Concessionary bus fares for the disabled: discussions with LibertyBus (P.140/2015)

- as amended.............................................................................80

9.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................81

1. Deputy E.J. Noel:......................................................................83
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis :....................................................................84
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................84

10. Draft Taxation (Implementation) (International Tax Compliance) (United States of America) (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.160/2015)......................86

10.1 Senator P.M. Bailhache (The Minister for External Relations):.........................86

11. Draft Taxation (Implementation) (International Tax Compliance) (United

Kingdom) (Amendment) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.161/2015)......................87

11.1 Senator P.M. Bailhache (The Minister for External Relations):.........................87

12. Draft Financial Regulations (Miscellaneous Provisions No. 3) (Jersey) Law 201- (P.162/2015)..............................................................................88

1. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf (Assistant Chief Minister - rapporteur):..........................88

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................88
2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :...............................................................89

2. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................90
3. Senator P.F.C. Ozouf :..................................................................90

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS....................90

13. The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): ....91

ADJOURNMENT................................................................................91

[9:30]

The Roll was called and the Greffier of the States led the Assembly in Prayer. COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

1. Welcome to His Excellency The Lieutenant Governor The Bailiff :

First of all, under A, in the usual way, I take great pleasure in welcoming His Excellency on behalf of you all. [Approbation]

2. Welcome to Deputy R.J. Rondel of St. Helier

The Bailiff :

Secondly, from the Chair, can I add my own congratulations and welcome to Deputy Rondel? It is a pleasure to see him back.

QUESTIONS

2. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY J.M. MAON OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE PROCESSING OF IMPAIRMENT FORMS:

Question

1. Is there a backlog in the processing of Impairment Forms within the department and, if so, why?
2. If there is a backlog, when will this be resolved and what action is being taken to deal with this issue?
3. How many people are currently affected by the backlog?
4. How is the department going to prevent backlogs from happening in future?

Answer

Income Support is designed to meet a variety of household needs, and from the introduction of the scheme it has always been recognised that the assessment of impairment should be undertaken separately to the processing of the remainder of the claim.

The broad range of medical and health needs supported by impairment components are considered through a separate application and assessment process. The staff who process these claims are experienced advisers who receive additional training and the assessment process considers both information provided directly by the claimant and evidence from GPs and/or relevant specialists.

In most cases, the main Income Support claim will be put into payment before the impairment process is complete. The impairment payments are then backdated to the start of the claim as soon as the impairment assessment is completed. This does not constitute a backlog. It allows for the efficient handling of the different parts of the claim. We also have procedures to ensure that urgent impairment cases can be prioritised.

The impairment test is designed to be transparent, the questions are clearly linked to the legislation and the assessment considers the evidence provided by the claimant themselves through a self-reporting form and a clinical report from an appropriate expert.

Income Support impairment components are available to assist with costs as follows:

• personal care components (three levels) provide additional support for individuals who have difficulty undertaking basic daily activities;
• mobility components (two levels) provide support for those who have significant mobility problems outside the home; and
• clinical cost components (two levels) provide additional support for those who need a higher than average number of GP visits to monitor an ongoing medical condition.

Individuals can be eligible for one or more components depending on their particular condition.

The departmental annual report for 2014 noted that, as of 31 December 2014, 34% of claims (2,185 claims in total) had at least one impairment component in payment.

During 2015, 483 new claims included a request for an impairment component. As noted above the impairment process is undertaken separately to the main Income Support application and will almost always take longer than the main claim.

The Social Security Business plan for 2016 includes a commitment to continue the development of our customer service excellence programme and officers are continually working to improve the service they provide. In respect of impairment components another round of staff training has recently been completed to provide more staff available to work in this area. Managers are also currently in negotiations with clinical professionals as part of a review of the technical support available to the team.

2. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE FUTURE HOSPITAL WEBSITE:

Question

Could the Minister provide a breakdown of costs for the new www.futurehospital.je website, including branding, video recording, advertising and materials?

Answer

Given that the Future Hospital will be such a significant decision for the people of Jersey and the States it is only right that appropriate investment in engagement and consultation is being made by the States with the full support of the Council of Ministers.

The following breakdown of costs  for  development of the  www.futurehospital.je website, including branding, video recording, advertising and materials has been prepared for the Deputy :

3. DEPUTY  M. TADIER  OF ST.  BRELADE OF THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING LAWS ADOPTED BY THE  STATES ASSEMBLY BUT NOT IN FORCE:

Question

Which laws adopted by the States Assembly have not been repealed but –

1. are not in force; or
2. contain Articles or Parts which are not in force?

Can the Chief Minister provide the reasons for each such Law, Article or Part not having been brought into force and what plans, if any, does he have to ensure that each such Law, Article or Part is brought into force and what the timetable is in each case?

Which Regulations and Orders adopted by the States Assembly have not been repealed but are not in force; what are the reasons for each such instrument not having been brought into force; and what plans, if any, does the Chief Minister have to ensure that each such instrument is brought into force and what is the timetable in each case?

In each case, how long have the said laws and/or Articles not been in force? Answer

Attached is a list of uncommenced laws. Departments are being asked to update Members on their areas and this information will be provided at the next States sitting.

4. THE DEPUTY OF GROUVILLE OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING BUDGETING FOR THE PROVISION OF THE EASTERN CYCLE NETWORK:

Question

How much money has been budgeted for the provision of the Eastern Cycle Network? Could the Minister detail –

1. the balance from the original sum of £500,000 that the States Assembly provided from the amendment to the 2010 budget (P.117/2009 Amd.(5));
2. how much has been collected through planning gain and the provision for the Eastern Cycle Network from developments which fall within the Eastern Cycle Network Corridor; and
3. how much, if any, was collected from The Willows development in Gorey Village and the Co-op development on Rue à Don?

Answer

1. The remaining balance from the original sum is £289,620, of which £215,000 has been allocated towards constructing the link from Checkers at Ville és Renaud to Grouville School (work commenced on site). This completes the path from Gorey to Grouville School. The remaining £74,620 has been combined with the Planning Obligation Agreement' POA gains and allocated towards the development and delivery of the next phases of the Eastern Cycle Network.
2. Total value of signed POAs to date is £105k. The first tranche of £25k to be provided through the Island Plan's Eastern Cycle Corridor provision is due for payment in 2016. The payment profile of the remaining POAs and / or transfers of land is dependent upon the contents of individual agreements and when or whether the various projects proceed on site.
3. The Willows POA provided a £10k contribution and the Co Op signed a POA to create a public footpath / cycleway across the frontage of their site, as shown on the drawings which forms part of

the POA available at: http://www.gov.je/sitecollectiondocuments/government%20and%20administration/poa%20- %20de%20la%20mare%20florist%20-%2006.03.2014.pdf)

Details of all POAs are published at: http://www.gov.je/government/departments/planningenvironment/pages/planningobligationagreements.aspx

5. THE DEPUTY OF GROUVILLE OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE EXTENSION OF THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION LEGISLATION TO COMPANIES OWNED OR CONTROLLED BY THE STATES:

Question

Following the adoption on 25th November 2014 of P.149/2014, Freedom of Information: extension to companies owned or controlled by the States', could the Chief Minister provide an update on the progress made to date, including reference to the application of the Freedom of Information Law to wholly-owned States companies and those companies where the States has a controlling interest?

Given that the Chief Minister was requested to bring forward legislation to give effect to the proposal and to report back within 6 months (by June 2015) on investigations into the feasibility of further extending the scope of the Law to entities that receive their majority funding from the States, what progress has been made and when can the Assembly expect to receive the feasibility report?

Answer

In the first full year of operation of the Freedom of Information (Jersey) Law, officers have been concentrating on establishing appropriate systems and establishing the law's operation.

There was consequently a delay in obtaining advice on the request to expand the law to cover government owned or controlled companies (the entities).

Advice was received during the second half of 2015 and work has recently recommenced on the expansion of the Law.

It is envisaged that consultation with the entities will take place during the second quarter of 2016.

Due to the complexity of some of the entities and the volume of work already in progress relating to the law, it is not expected that the legislation will be extended to the entities before the first quarter of 2017.

A report will be produced during the third quarter of 2016 following consultation with the entities.

6. DEPUTY R. LABEY OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE PROVISION OF LOCAL WHOLESALE SERVICES BY J.T:

Question

Can the Chief Minister detail what actions, if any, have been undertaken and what directions have been issued to the Jersey Competition and Regulatory Authorities and the JT Board and/or the executive management of JT to ensure that JT is mandated to provide local wholesale services?

Furthermore, given that, in 2009, international consultants Regulaid advised that the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority should require JT to provide wholesale services to other local telecommunications licensed operators (OLTLOs), will the Minister explain why wholesale line rental, in particular broadband services, is not available to OLTLOs and what action, if any, he proposes to take to resolve this?

Answer

This matter falls within the area of responsibility led by Assistant Minister, Senator Philip Ozouf .

The Channel Islands Competition and Regulatory Authorities (CICRA) currently obliges JT in Jersey to provide local wholesale services in broadband, leased lines and wholesale line rental.

Wholesale line rental is the most recent addition to this portfolio of wholesale access products and was introduced in June 2015 as directed by CICRA.

More recently, on the 10th of February 2016, CICRA issued a consultation to establish the nature and extent of demand for additional wholesale access services. Its next steps will be guided by the responses to that consultation and the potential additional benefits to Jersey consumers.

The Deputy refers to the Regulaid report that was conducted in 2009. The recommendations from this report have informed the regulator's work over the years since its publication. However, it is important to recognise that this report is just one of a number of factors that drive the JCRA's work programme.

As the Deputy will be aware, in 2015 the Government of Jersey commissioned Oxera to review the JCRA and the regulatory and competition framework applied in Jersey. This review identified whether, in order to improve the outcome for the Jersey economy in general, and Jersey consumers in particular, changes could be made to the way the JCRA functions, the framework under which it operates, and/or the way stakeholders interact with the JCRA. The review focuses on the operation of the JCRA itself, but also considers the broader policy and institutional context in which the JCRA operates. On the 2nd February 2016 the government published the draft regulatory and competition framework review action plan.

7. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING THE ALLOCATION OF STATES MEMERS' PARKING SPACES:

Question

Will the Minister advise –

1. how many allocated No Public Parking' spaces are allocated to States members in Sand Street and Pier Road;
2. how many parking permits are currently issued to States members for parking in those car parks?

Answer

1. 10 in Sand Street and 8 in Pier road, States Members Permits are valid on Level 2 upwards at Pier Road.
2. 41 permits issued

8. DEPUTY R. LABEY OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE SERVICE PROVIDED BY CONDOR FERRIES:

Question

Can the Minister advise what action, if any, he will be taking to ensure that Condor resolves the following issues –

1. how frequently Condor cancels travel bookings to Jersey at short notice;
2. how frequently clients are unable to contact the company by telephone to change bookings;
3. the disruption caused by altered travel arrangements which often oblige Condor clients to travel to a different point of departure from the one anticipated and involve early morning crossings which require an overnight stay in a hotel; and
4. the frequent rejection of customer compensation claims towards hotel costs, citing EU Passenger Rights Regulation 1177/2010 (that the relevant circumstances causing the cancellation were beyond the company's control)?

Answer

1. Statistics provided by Condor Ferries indicate that overall fleet reliability is only just below 2014 levels despite the introduction of the new vessel. The majority of cancellations are due to weather. I understand that Condor provide 24 hours' notice of weather cancellations. I further understand that Condor proactively contact all customers by email or text whenever there is a cancellation or even a delay.

2. I am aware that there are times when it is not possible to get through to Condor by phone. One disrupted sailing can affect several hundred people, so it is inevitable that there will be times when people cannot get through. I have urged Condor to do all it can to ensure maximum resource is available at difficult times. They have informed me that standard hours for its central Reservations office have, as of last month, been extended to 8pm on weekdays. Having asked Condor directly about this issue, I have seen reporting which shows a significant reduction in abandoned' calls compared with last year.
3. The only time when customers might be asked to travel to or from a different port is when high speed sailings are cancelled and passengers instead have to travel on the Clipper to/from Portsmouth. This is usually because of weather disruption. If the disruption is Condor's responsibility, the company pays for customer hotels as well as transport (or vehicle mileage) to/from the alternative port
4. I have been categorically reassured by Condor that Condor always meets its obligations under the EU Passenger Rights Directive. Not only does Condor adhere to the EU Directive, but thanks to the published Operating Agreement, they also pay out on inter-Island travel – which is not covered by EU Legislation.

I can reassure the Deputy and the Assembly that my Department and Ports of Jersey will continue to work closely with Condor to ensure that both operational performance and customer satisfaction are improved.

9. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING SUPPORT PROVIDED TO JERSEY'S DIGITAL INDUSTRY:

Question

Following the commitment in the Strategic Plan to support Jersey's digital industry what efforts, if any, are being made to ensure that local digital businesses are prioritised above UK firms when States contracts for the implementation of eGovernment are awarded?

Answer

eGovernment is a significant programme of work covering a wide spectrum of digital and IT technology components.

Much of this work can be delivered by the local digital sector, and a number of agreements have already been awarded to local suppliers. Jersey's digital sector is growing rapidly and island firms have developed skills and products for both the local and international markets. Some areas, however, require specialisms not currently available in Jersey.

Significant government contracts should always be awarded through fair and open procurement processes which aim to provide best value for taxpayers. Suppliers of IT services compete for Jersey government work by applying through the e-Procurement portal, "Channel Island Tenders".

Bids for contracts are evaluated by published criteria, which include relevant experience and expertise. This process aims to ensure services are delivered in a timely fashion at competitive prices.

The Government has announced its intention to build capacity and skills in the local digital sector. For the first time a Jersey Digital Framework' is being drafted for publication in the next couple of months. This will be a digital sector equivalent of the Financial Services Framework' – the Financial Services strategy published in 2014 – which has been so successful in repositioning the island's Finance Sector.

All eGovernment tenders will increasingly need to recognise, and assist with, the important strategic need to grow the island's digital sector.

This will be achieved by bringing in the best IT companies in their field. If such skills are not currently available in the island there will, in future, be a requirement for these companies to engage with local technology firms to build skills. Digital Jersey is being mandated to assist in this area and as eGovernment delivers more services the local industry will gain business opportunities.

10. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE REGENERATION OF FORT REGENT:

Question

What progress, if any, has been made towards pursuing the proposals to regenerate and improve the usage of Fort Regent outlined in the report, Rediscovering Fort Regent: A vision for the future', published on 12th September 2014?

Answer

Fort Regent is a critical element of the regeneration of St Helier, one of the key priorities in the States Strategic Plan.

The Fort Regent Steering Group (FRSG) that oversaw the delivery of the Rediscovering Fort Regent report has been reconstituted under the chairmanship of Connétable Steve Pallett, Assistant Minister with responsibility for sport in the Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture Department.

The first meeting of the newly constituted group was held on 8th December 2015. One of the key outputs of the meeting was a request to the Minister for the Environment to define acceptable uses within any redevelopment of the Fort. As response is expected from the Minister by the end of the second quarter of 2016.

The Rediscovering Fort Regent report, combined with a clear view of acceptable uses from the perspective of the planning approvals process will allow options for the redevelopment to be developed.

Progress will be discussed at a forthcoming meeting of the FRSG to be held on 1st March 2016.

11. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING UNDERGROUND PARKING AT THE ESPLANADE: Question

What is the current timescale for the completion of the underground carpark at the Esplanade as part of the International Finance Centre development? Does this timescale affect the viability of Option D, the Waterfront, as a possible site for the new hospital, given the necessary loss of the current replacement carpark on the Waterfront as the development takes place?

Answer

The delivery of the Jersey International Finance Centre is demand led. Based on the demand profiles, SoJDC anticipates the new underground public carpark at the Jersey International Finance Centre being complete around 2022.

Included in the costings for the Waterfront option for the new hospital is the creation of an alternative temporary carpark to relocate the temporary car parking that would be on the site of the Waterfront option.

The timescale of the delivery of the new public underground carpark therefore does not affect the Waterfront option.

12. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING ALLOWANCES MADE TO CLIENTS OF LES AMIS: Question

Can the Minister advise –

1. the circumstances of any reduction in allowances made to clients of Les Amis;
2. the number of clients of Les Amis who have seen a reduction in their allowances, and by how much;
3. what changes, if any, have taken place in the funding arrangements between the States and Les Amis; and
4. whether these changes are consistent with the goal listed in the current strategic plan of protecting the interests of the frail and the vulnerable', and if so, how?

Answer

Les Amis provides a variety of services to adults and children. The Social Security Department provides support to the majority of the 81 adult clients of Les Amis, through both the Long-Term-Care scheme and Income Support.

Some of the clients supported by Les Amis have care needs below the level to qualify for the Long-Term- Care scheme. These clients are supported through the Income Support scheme with components allocated to living expenses, rent etc. In particular these clients all receive a personal care component in addition to their normal living components.

Most of the clients supported by Les Amis qualify for the Long-Term-Care scheme. This covers the cost of providing care (four separate levels are available depending on the needs of the individual), a standard cost to cover living expenses and a personal allowance for incidental expenses. The value of these components are set out in the Long-Term-Care Benefits Order.

There has been no reduction in Long-Term Care rates. They were all increased by 1.8% from January 2016. The living component increased from £312.76 to £318.43 per week and the personal allowance increased from £34.09 to £34.72 per week.

In respect of the care element, a transitional arrangement was agreed with Les Amis to cover the first 18 months of the Long-Term-Care scheme, from July 2014 to the end of 2015. During this time, adult clients were all supported at a set care rate, regardless of the level of the care needs of the individual. The transition period allowed time for a detailed care assessment to be agreed for each client and the single care rate has now been replaced by the appropriate care rate reflecting the individual care needs of each client.

In line with the arrangements approved by the States Assembly in 2013 (P.99/2013, P.140/2013) Health and Social Services provides additional support for any client whose care needs exceeds the maximum level provided through the Long-Term Care scheme, which is currently set at £997.50 per week. A number of Les Amis clients fall into this category and Les Amis receives additional funding from Health and Social Services to support the care needs of this group.

The Long-Term Care scheme and the additional support provided through Health and Social Services now provide coordinated and consistent support for all adults with long-term care needs. The creation of a ring fenced Long-Term-Care Fund and a dedicated funding mechanism through long-term-care contributions clearly indicates the firm commitment of the States to support this vulnerable group over the long term.

13. DEPUTY M.TADIEROFST.BRELADEOF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING COMPLAINTS MADE ABOUT TELEPHONE PROVIDERS:

Question

1. How many complaints have been made to –

1. the Channel Islands Competition Regulatory Authorities/the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority;
2. the Minister;
3. Trading Standards; and
4. the Consumer Council;

regarding telecoms providers in the past two years (2014 to 2015)?

2. What protection, if any, is in place to prevent mobile telephone providers from ceasing special offers, such as free/discounted roaming, during the term of a contract, especially if that offer was used to encourage clients to sign up to a minimum term?
3. Is the Minister made aware of any such complaints as detailed above, and will he list what action, if any, is being taken to examine whether such a problem exists, and, if so, the extent of the problem?

Answer

This matter falls within the area of responsibility led by Assistant Minister, Senator Philip Ozouf .

The Deputy 's question covers a number of issues and organisations. The response is therefore broken down into the relevant categories

1. Complaints about Telecoms CICRA

CICRA does not keep a record of all complaints raised about telecommunications providers. When CICRA receives a complaint from a consumer it ensures that, in the first instance, the consumer engages with the complaints procedure of the relevant operators.

If a consumer has exhausted the process with the operator then CICRA will either recommend that the complainant approach Trading Standards (for example if it is a contractual issue) or if CICRA identifies a systemic issue it can initiate a review. In some circumstances the outcome of such a review can result in changes to operator's licence conditions.

The Consumer Council

The Consumer Council does not catalogue individual complaints as this is not a core part of its remit. However, it received around 25 complaints regarding telecoms providers in 2014 and 2015 and these complaints touched on issues as varied as fibre installation, bill shock, broadband speeds and customer care.

When dealing with complaints the Consumer Council tries to ensure that the consumer has exhausted all channels with the provider before it signposts the consumer to the appropriate body. On rare occasions it may act independently to broker meaningful dialogue between the two parties. Helping to ensure that consumers have access to the right information which will allow them to make informed choices is crucial and, to aid this, the Consumer Council recently launched the comparison website TelcoWatch.

Trading Standards

The Assistant Chief Minister has received a small number of complaints from individuals about, or related to, telecoms. In each case the department investigates and then either responds to the complainant directly or ensures that the complainant is directed to the right body, for example, Trading Standards.

All complaints  to  the  confidential  Consumer  Advice  Service  at  Trading  Standards  are  recorded  and categorised in relation to the business sector and type of complaint.

The number of recorded cases for 2014 and 2015 are as follows.

The data includes on' and off' Island providers, cases' includes complaints and enquiries for all types of complaints and is also expressed as a percentage of the total number of complaints received by the service for that year.

2. Protection for consumers

In 2014 the regulator  issued a  decision  publicised  as  fixed  means fixed'  that  increased the  level  of protection afforded to consumers in a scenario where a telecoms operator sought to alter the contract terms in a way that amounted to increases in prices for customers on a fixed-term contract. As a result of this customers must be given two calendar months written notice of any increase to the unit price of services. The customer also has the right to terminate the contract, without penalty, if the proposed variations are not acceptable.

Consumers also have statutory rights under the Supply of Goods and Services (Jersey) Law 2009, which allows for civil redress in certain contractual circumstances.

Trading Standards provide a free confidential consumer advice service. Should evidence of an alleged breach of the fixed means fixed' decision come to their attention, a case referral will be made to the JCRA having obtaining the appropriate authority to disclose.

Jersey  providers  also  fall  within  the  jurisdiction  of  the  Advertising  Standards  Authority  Code  of Advertising,  Sales  Promotion  and  Direct  Marketing'.  Consumers  and  competitors  can  make  official complaints to the Authority and the outcome of adjudications are published.

3. Existing complaints

The Assistant Chief Minister is aware of one outstanding complaint regarding a change to a consumer's contract. This complainant has been referred to the Trading Standards Service.

Improved transparency and consumer information can help people in Jersey make informed decisions about telecoms services. I am, therefore, delighted that the Consumer Council has launched TelcoWatch which is designed to do just that.

14. DEPUTY J.A. HILTON OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF ASBESTOS IN SCHOOLS:

Question

1. Can the Minister confirm that all staff are informed of the presence of asbestos in their schools during their induction?
2. Given that recent communications stated that policies and procedures do recognize that we have a duty of care to inform staff that there is asbestos containing material in some of our buildings and how they are managed', and that, If there is a request from the staff as to the exact location of the asbestos the site team highlight these areas using the survey plans', can the Minister advise whether staff are only made aware of the location of asbestos in their schools if they specifically ask?
3. Are those schools which have asbestos subject to regular fibre monitoring?
4. Can the Minister advise why the Education Department has not made a commitment to remove asbestos from schools in a phased, controlled way, given that, in October 2015, the All-Party Parliamentary Group in Occupational Safety and Health stated that the time has come to put in place regulations requiring the safe, phased and planned removal of all asbestos that still remains in place across Britain' and recommended that this should happen in schools by 2028?

Answer

1. The induction process for all new staff includes a health and safety element that requires the management of asbestos to be highlighted if applicable. The policies and procedures are devised and updated centrally at the Education Department but the induction process is delivered by the schools' management teams on site. As the induction is an automatic requirement, it is highly likely staff have been informed where necessary but, without conducting a survey of all staff, it is not possible to confirm this absolutely. All health and safety issues are regularly monitored and reviewed as part of the Department's audit programme.

Unless changes to a facility are expected to involve work that might disturb the fabric of the building, the presence of asbestos presents no significant risk to staff. Should managed/encapsulated asbestos need to be disturbed for building work, the States' corporate policies and internal procedures would be followed to ensure staff are safe. There are clear systems in place to ensure that no one is exposed and these apply to contractors as well as school staff.

2. The duty of care is addressed by the processes currently in placeandthe information regarding the exact location is available to all staff in the site log books located in the reception at every school where this is applicable. Existing staff should already be aware and new staff are given the information during their induction if necessary.
3. Regular air monitoring for asbestos fibre levels would only be completed when it has been identified by the asbestos management plan for the premises, which is prepared by an asbestos specialist, that regular reassurance air monitoring is required.

I am advised by Jersey Property Holdings that there is no requirement for regular air monitoring within the current asbestos management plans for the schools. The asbestos management plan for each school is

reviewed at least every 12  months to ensure that the  management processes remain effective and the arrangements are being properly implemented.

4. The States of Jersey continues to comply with current Jersey asbestos health and safety legislation, primarily the Management of Exposure to Asbestos in Workplace Buildings and Structures Approved Code of Practice (ACoP 8, revised 2015) and the Asbestos-Licensing (Jersey) Regulations 2008.

Any proposed change to the current Jersey asbestos health and safety legislation would be a matter for initial consideration by the Health and Safety at Work Inspectorate.

Asbestos containing materials have been removed from the majority of the schools if the material is located within the property and it is foreseeable that users could come into contact with it. This was a significant undertaking by the States of Jersey. Asbestos management plans are in place for each school which proactively manage any remaining asbestos containing materials. The asbestos management plans for each school are reviewed at least every 12 months to ensure that the condition of asbestos containing materials has not changed, the management processes remain effective and the arrangements are being properly implemented.

15. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE SITES SHORT-LISTED FOR THE NEW HOSPITAL:

Question

Will the Minister give a breakdown of the projected costs for each of the 5 sites short listed for the new hospital clearly separating out the direct building costs from extraneous site costs attached to each site, such as –

1. the compensatory land costs in option E;
2. the opportunity cost of not building housing/office space;
3. the replacement of Jardins de la Mer in option D; and
4. the cost of parking provision in each option?

Will he further explain why no mention is made in the website summary page of the protected open space' status of People's Park in the Island Plan?

Will he also explain the differences between good' and very good' clinical adjacency and reasonable' and good' future flexibility in options D & E?

Will he indicate what the risk' identified with the compensatory sites in Option E is?

Will he also give an assessment of the risk of indefinite delay attached to continued opposition to Option E, should it prove necessary to pursue compulsory purchase in respect of People's Park?

Answer

No pubic breakdown of costs will be provided for the five short-listed site options as this is commercially confidential information. To do so would impair future negotiations and tenders and would not therefore be in the public interest.

However, as the Deputy will be aware, having attended the States Member briefing on 2nd February at St Paul's Centre, the Council of Ministers is willing to share all the breakdown of costs with States Members subject to them signing confidentiality agreements.

This information has been provided to the relevant Scrutiny Sub-Panel under the terms  of the normal confidentiality agreement.

The planning position in relation to the option of the People's Park site is clear. The Open Space policy (SCO4) allows for development that is for greater community or Island benefit or where appropriate compensatory provision is made. The proposals for the People's Park option meet both of these tests.

Both shortlisted options D (Waterfront) and E (People's Park) would make good hospitals. The assessment of option D is that the location of hospital departments vertically is not as good as in option E. Similarly, the future flexibility in Option D requires re-provision of ground floor support services whereas this would not be required in Option E.

Clearly, the key risk under compensatory provision for Option E is that this is not considered publicly acceptable.

I would hope that compulsory purchase would not be necessary were Islanders to determine that Option E should be the preferred option.

16. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR TREASURY AND RESOURCES REGARDING THE HEALTH CHARGE PROPOSED IN THE MEDIUM TERM FINANCIAL PLAN:

Question

Will the Minister update members on what progress has been made in determining the scope and structure of the health charge' proposed in the Medium Term Financial Plan?

How many meetings have taken place with the relevant Ministers to discuss the new charge and when can the Assembly expect proposals to go out to consultation?

To what extent, if any, will the charge involve changes to the funding of General Practitioner and dental services and the re-introduction of prescription charges?

Answer

As the Deputy is aware MTFP2 includes proposed additional income of £15m for 2018 and £35m for 2019 under the description "proposed sustainable funding mechanism for health". Consistent with the statements made in the 2016 Budget the Minister's position is that, provided States income continues to meet the forecasts outlined in MTFP2, the amount to be raised through the sustainable funding mechanism in 2018/19 will be reduced by any additional income raised through the annual Budget process.

As noted in the MTFP2 document, an officer working group has been established to provide advice to Ministers on the scope and structure of the sustainable funding mechanism. High level presentations regarding the options and related issues have been made to the Council of Ministers in May 2015 and recently at a Council of Ministers/Chief Officers workshop.

Although no decisions have been made, it should be noted that the Council of Ministers' final proposals are unlikely to consist of a single income raising measure, but rather, consistent with the approach adopted in most jurisdictions across the globe, the sustainable funding mechanism is likely to consist of a package of measures which deliver the required income but also help to drive the correct behaviours in the consumption of health services. The Council of Ministers are committed to outlining firm plans for the health charge in the MTFP2 addition (scheduled to be lodged in June 2016).

The health charge proposed in the MTFP relates to services provided by Health and Social Services and therefore don't extend to the funding of General Practitioner and primary dental care services and the re- introduction of prescription charges.

17. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING HOUSEHOLD INCOMES:

Question

In order to better understand the impact of the recession on the economy in comparison with other countries, will the Chief Minister publish the data contained in the Income Distribution Survey on household incomes by decile along with the 90/10 income ratio and the ratio of average earnings between the top and bottom deciles, and if not, why not?

Answer

The report on Jersey Household Income Distribution 2014/15 was published by the independent Statistics Unit in November 2015; the report can be found on the Statistics Unit website at: http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Income%20Distr ibution%20Survey%20Report%202014-15%2020151112%20SU.pdf

The detailed analysis and objective interpretation contained in this report has already proven to be an invaluable source of information for government and will continue to be for several years, until the next round of the Income Distribution Survey (IDS) is carried out.

The published report presents the current status of household income in Jersey and, through previous rounds of the IDS conducted over the past 15 years, an assessment of change in household income over time. Compared with similar sized jurisdictions, Jersey is fortunate to have such detailed and consistent information available for the purposes of policy development and evaluation.

As well as presenting the full income distribution, the report presents analyses broken down by household composition, tenure and income quintile. For the purposes of international comparison, the report utilises a commonly applied definition of relative low income and presents three measures of income inequality: the Gini coefficient; the 90-10 income ratio (see page 22 of the report); and the 90-10 income shares ratio.

Consideration of household income broken down by income, or any other variable, is governed by the statistical accuracy and robustness of the results. Furthermore, analysis by income quintile enables comparison with the published results of previous rounds of the IDS.

In order to consider the publication of income broken down at a more detailed level, e.g. by income decile, I must defer to the professional expertise and judgement of the independent Statistics Unit, and specifically to that of the Chief Statistician.

The Chief Statistician assures me that the Statistics Unit will investigate the feasibility of publishing further information at the level of income decile. If he considers that the results of such an exercise are meaningful in terms of statistical accuracy and robustness he will publish the information on the Statistics Unit website. In the interim he invites the Deputy , or any other States Member, to discuss specific data needs with him directly.

18. DEPUTY  G.P.  SOUTHERN  OF  ST.  HELIER OF THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING POTENTIAL REDUCTIONS IN RETAIL GAS TARIFFS:

Question

Will the Chief Minister inform members what discussions/negotiations, if any, have taken place between the Channel Islands Competition Regulatory Authority officials and Jersey Gas over potential reductions in retail gas tariffs to reflect those in the UK?

Will he further inform members when he expects to be able to report any progress on this issue to the States, and if not, why not?

Answer

This matter falls within the area of responsibility led by Assistant Minister, Senator Philip Ozouf .

The  States  debated   Deputy   Southern 's  proposition, calling  for  Regulations  to  reduce  the  Jersey  Gas Company's  domestic  and  commercial  tariffs  by  10%  with  immediate  effect,  on  the  20th of  January

(P.154/2015).

That proposition was not successful but during the debate it was made clear that the JCRA would undertake further work to understand the gas market. If it appears to the JCRA that there is a problem with the operation of the gas market, intervention could take a number of forms depending on the circumstances: including recommendations to the States on legislation, following up under the competition law or seeking a voluntary commitment from the Gas Company.

The JCRA has issued an invitation to tender (ITT) for the stage two review of the gas market and has received two bids that it is currently considering. It would not be right to openly discuss matters related to the ITT whilst negotiations are continuing with consultants. However, an update will be issued on timescales once a consultant has been appointed.

The terms of reference were summarised for the benefit of States Members in the Council of Minister's Comment to P.154. The full terms of reference are now appended to this answer.

It is important that the JCRA is allowed to complete its work before any judgments are made about whether or not price regulation is warranted.

Invitation to Tender

The  Channels  Islands  Competition  and  Regulatory  Authorities  (comprised  of  the  Jersey  Competition Regulatory Authority (JCRA) and the Guernsey Competition and Regulatory Authority (GCRA)) is the competition authority and telecommunication regulator for Jersey and the bailiwick of Guernsey. It also regulates the Ports of Jersey and Guernsey Electricity as well as the postal sector in both jurisdictions. This work is specific to the JCRA.

In May 2015, CICRA agreed Terms of Reference with the Assistant Chief Minister to carry out a stage one assessment of the fuel market in Jersey. These can be found at: http://www.cicra.gg/_files/Fuel%20Market%20Review%20Jersey%20ToR.pdf.  In  October  2015,  CICRA published a Statement on the First Stage Findings: http://www.cicra.gg/_files/Review%20of%20the%20Fuel%20Market%20in%20Jersey%20104109%20V2.p df. CICRA is now seeking to engage an advisor to carry out a focussed assessment of certain matters following discussions and identified in a Statement made by the Assistant Chief Minister on 14 December 2015.

With regard to the gas market in Jersey there are two areas of analysis sought:

• provide further analysis on retail prices and how they compare over time in Jersey relative to an

appropriate benchmark, such as equivalent retail prices in the UK or elsewhere and the appropriate wholesale prices in the UK, recognising there are two primary retail gas products in Jersey – bottled LPG and a gas network supplying LPG.

An analytical framework is sought that provides an in depth understanding of the relationship between retail and wholesale gas prices over time in Jersey, in particular to answer the question whether retail prices bear a reasonable relationship to market-based wholesale prices, and if not what factors might account for material divergences over time.

This assessment will include consideration of the medium to long term relationship between retail and wholesale gas prices in Jersey, establish what other factors play a role in the level and movement of retail prices charged in Jersey (such as low volumes, transport costs) and explain the influence these factors have on the retail price to Jersey consumers. The effects of the changing volumes of gas sold (as outlined in the first stage report) should also be taken into account and explained in relation to any movements in the relative position of the benchmark(s) chosen.

• further analysis of rates of return and gross margins, including consideration of the value of the

asset base and analysis of operating costs

The first stage assessment carried out by CICRA considered statutory accounts in arriving at estimates of margins and returns. The successful applicant will carry out an analysis of the relevance of differences between Jersey Gas's statutory accounts and a reasonable economic valuation of the assets and operating costs of the gas business, as a basis for arriving at such margins and returns. Where differences contribute to material variation in the estimates of margins and returns these should be discussed and substantiated. Tenders for these two areas of work should provide separate prices for each area as well as a single price where both areas of work are bid for. A brief outline of the approach the assessments will take should also be provided in the bid. The final outputs would be a single or two separate reports, which fully explain the analysis undertaken and its findings in a form which can be made available to States Members and the general public. If necessary, confidential versions to CICRA should also be provided where information provided is commercially confidential.

Tenders are invited from applicants to assist CICRA in this area. The closing date for submissions is Friday 12th February, 17:00.

Applicants should provide an overall estimate of the costs, either as a fixed price or on the basis of a fixed price or as an estimated number of days and the corresponding rates.

Please provide details of the individuals or team expected to carry out the work and previous experience in conducting similar assessments or other relevant experience.

Any potential conflicts of interest should be disclosed.

Such conflicts would not rule out candidates, and prior knowledge and understanding of the issues relevant to this area in the Channel Islands or similar jurisdictions may be advantageous. However, candidates must indicate how they would avoid actual conflicts of interest and manage the confidentiality of information within their organisation.

The key criteria used in the assessment of applicants proposals will be experience and value, which combined will enable CICRA to complete the assessments in the most efficient and cost effective manner in the available time.

2.19DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING RENTAL CHARGES:

Question

Following an exchange of emails on the subject between the Minister for Social Security and States members on the topic, will the Minister inform members why Andium Homes cannot publish clear figures for the rents it charges to new tenants by category?

Will the Minister also clearly set out what policy or policies are being followed for rental charges? Answer

Andium Homes publishes clear information to tenants about its rental policy on its website: www.andiumhomes.je/yourhome/Pages/Paying-your-rent.aspx

This provides a summary of the minimum, average and maximum weekly rents Andium Homes charges tenants by the type of accommodation. Some of the rents will be for tenancies that commenced before 1st

April 2014, which were set under the former States Rent Policy, and some  will be for tenancies that commenced after the new States Rent Policy came into effect.

New tenants are given information about the actual rent for the property that they will be renting as part of the offer process before they sign the tenancy agreement.

The rent level for individual properties will be linked to factors such as the size, location and condition of the property and, moreover, rent levels will change as new tenancies are created and rents are reset. However, publishing the range of rents charged by Andium Homes provides new tenants with a better understanding about the rent they are likely to pay.

The rents charged by all social housing providers, including Andium Homes, conforms with the States Rent Policy, which was set by the States Assembly in May 2013 when it approved P.33/2013 The Reform of Social Housing'. Andium Homes calculates rents for new tenants at 90% of the rent that would be charged for an equivalent property in the private rented sector, with an inflation-linked increase applied annually to all tenancies, unless the increase would take the rent above the 90% market rent level.

For tenants who receive Income Support, the full cost of social housing rent can be met through the housing component and set according to the rent that is charged by the landlord, depending on the income of the household and providing that the household is occupying a property that is appropriate for the size of the household.

2.20 DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING STATES MEMBERS' CAR PARKING:

Question

Can the Chairman advise –

1. how many States members' car parking spaces have been removed from Snow Hill and whether any consideration has been given to compensating for those spaces elsewhere, and if not, why not;
2. whether consideration has been given to harmonising the overflow' provisions for States members' parking, given that, if all spaces are taken at Pier Road, permit holders are permitted to park on any floor except the lower ground floor, whereas, at Sand Street, in the event that all the spaces are taken, members either have to park upstairs and pay for parking or drive to Pier Road; and
3. whether PPC supports the continued provision of States members' parking and if so, why, and if not, why not?

Answer

1. On 22nd May 2014 the States adopted P.43/2014 and agreed –

"to request the Minister for Transport and Technical Services to take the necessary steps to cease the provision of free car parking for States Members, Jurats and Law Officers at Snow Hill car park with immediate effect so that, upon completion of the Transport and Technical Services North of St. Helier Flood alleviation scheme in the car park, the 11 spaces currently reserved for States Members, Jurats and Law Officers can be amalgamated with the 84 public spaces currently provided at Snow Hill subject to the continued provision of adequate parking for Jurats at an alternative location as required". (The full proposition is appended for reference.)

The Infrastructure Department have advised that, when the spaces at Snow Hill were lost, 8 additional spaces were provided at Pier Road in order to compensate.

2. This is not a matter for which PPC has any responsibility. However we have been advised by the Minister for Infrastructure that he has not been approached to discuss whether the overflow provision at Sand Street car park should be amended in order to allow members to park on any floor of the car park. At present there is ample space available for States members at Pier Road and the remaining floors of Sand Street car park currently provide centrally situated shopper parking for the public, which is of considerable value to St. Helier 's economy.
3. A decision of the States in 2004 entitled members to free parking with the allocation to be determined by the Environment and Public Services Committee, now the Department for Infrastructure (P.199/2004 refers). As the current arrangements seem to be working satisfactorily, PPC does not see any merit in proposing changes.

STATES OF JERSEY

SNOW HILL CAR PARK: PARKING FOR STATES MEMBERS, JURATS AND LAW OFFICERS

Lodged au Greffe on 1st April 2014 by Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence

STATES GREFFE

PROPOSITION

THE STATES are asked to decide whether they are of opinion

to request the Minister for Transport and Technical Services to take the necessary steps to cease the provision of free car parking for States Members, Jurats and Law Officers at Snow Hill car park with immediate effect so that, upon completion of the Transport and Technical Services North of St. Helier Flood alleviation scheme in the car park, the 11 spaces currently reserved for States Members, Jurats and Law Officers can be amalgamated with the 84 public spaces currently provided at Snow Hill subject to the continued provision of adequate parking for Jurats at an alternative location as required.

DEPUTY E.J. NOEL OF ST. LAWRENCE

REPORT

States Members, Jurats and Law Officers free car parking provision at Snow Hill was temporary taken away to allow Transport and Technical Services (TTS) to carry out works on the connection of the cavern and the shaft to Anne Court in the beginning of July 2013.

These works have been underway now for 9 months and are due to be completed in September of this year.

During this time States Members, Jurats and Law Officers have had access to alternative free parking provision provided at Pier Road multi-storey car park. The Jurats have 9 permanently reserved spaces for their use on Vine Street, prior to the works a further 3 permanently reserved spaces were available at Snow Hill. During construction period TTS has made special provision for additional Jurat parking when the Court requires a full sitting of Jurats, temporarily reserving additional spaces as and when required. The Jurats give greatly of their time at no cost to the public and it is important that they continue to be provided with appropriate and adequate car parking as and when needed.

Pier Road car park has ample space to accommodate the relocation on a permanent basis. Some 250 spaces per weekday are currently available at Pier Road.

In my opinion, these temporary measures have had little or no significant adverse effects on States Members, Jurats and Law Officers. On the occasion when a full sitting of Jurats is required, the present arrangements, whereby TTS temporarily reserve spaces as required, could continue.

I am proposing, on completion of the works being carried out by TTS at Snow Hill, that the 11 spaces formerly utilised free of charge at Snow Hill by States Members, Jurats and the Law Offices should be combined with the 84 public parking spaces to increase the number of spaces available for shoppers in St. Helier by some 13% (from 84 to 95).

These spaces are at the most northern end of the Snow Hill car park and as such are the most "valuable" to shoppers.

We have been asked on a number of occasions to increase shopper parking in this area of St. Helier and this proposition allows us the opportunity to deliver at no additional cost 11 additional spaces in Snow Hill car park.

Indeed during the Police Headquarters debate the need for additional shopper parking in this area of St. Helier was referred to by a number of States Members. This proposition is simply asking Members to put Islanders interest before our own.

I hope that Members will support this proposition. Financial and manpower implications

There are no manpower implications and based on information provided to me by the TTS officers, this change will result in approximately £13,318 per annum of additional income for the car park reserve fund.

3. Oral Questions

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St Helier of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding expressions of interestissued for gardeners and cleaners during ongoing negotiations with the existing workforce:

Will the Minister explain whether he has invited expressions of interest for gardeners and cleaners when negotiations with the existing workforce are ongoing, and if so, why?

Deputy E.J. Noel of St. Lawrence (The Minister for Infrastructure):

Obviously this question was drafted prior to the J.E.P. (Jersey Evening Post) Gazette notice last week on Thursday, 18th February, when the department published a notice to advise interested parties of a P.Q.Q. (pre-qualification questionnaire) lunch briefing for contractors working in the areas of gardening and commercial cleaning. It is at a very early phase of the procurement process for potential private sector provision of services. It is also issued through the States procurement portal on Wednesday, 17th February. The P.Q.Q. is an opportunity for contractors to express their interest in providing services on behalf of D.f.I. (Department for Instructure) and it is therefore for the department to conduct due diligence regarding the suitability of those contractors. It is no more than that. In order to do so they must be given details of the services that they are attempting to pre-qualify for. This process precedes any invitation to tender and is a requirement for determining whether it is feasible to pursue any further tendering exercise. The department's chief officer, in a circular to all staff distributed to staff on Thursday, 18th February, explained this process to the staff and apologised to employees in the areas mentioned in the P.Q.Q. notice for the need to do this during the consultation process. However, in order to meet the saving timescale set by this Assembly it is unfortunate but necessary for some of the workstreams to run in parallel.

1. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I am aware that a P.Q.Q. is the pre-qualification questionnaire, which is the pre-cursor to tendering. As the tender notice in last Thursday's Gazette states, there is a list of 13 services from cleaning, gardening, emptying bins on roads, and harbours. There is a list of 13 here. Does the Minister not realise that the Infrastructure Department, formerly T.T.S. (Transport and Technical Services) employees, are greatly distressed at the thought of losing their jobs, many of whom will never work again, to post this advertisement while negotiations are ongoing is a gross discourtesy to the workforce? Does the Minister not agree that employees who have given decades of loyal service should be treated with respect and looked after?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Absolutely their employees should be treated with respect and that is exactly what we are doing. Unfortunately we do need to understand whether or not the private sector can take up any of these particular tasks and to carry out due diligence on those organisations that express an interest to do so. We have not finished the service reviews yet. As Members will know, I anticipated those reviews would have been finished some time earlier this week. That has not been the case because we have extended the consultation period with the unions for a further 6 weeks, until the end of March, beginning of April. It is important that we do that with the unions and staff. But what is equally important, we cannot drag this out because those individuals that will be affected, and there will be some that will be affected. You cannot take £70 million worth of staff savings out of the States budget without some people no longer being employed by the States. We need to do that in a respectful way and we need to get to the position where we can give certainty to those individuals affected as quickly as possible.

2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier :

When the Deputy was attempting to convince Members of this Assembly to vote for him for the position of Minister for Transport and Technical Services, as it then was, in his speech he said: "The merger between Jersey Property Holdings and T.T.S. is not a slash and burn exercise, it is not a Trojan Horse privatisation" and then during questions Deputy Southern asked him the very direct question, which was: "By how much does he expect to reduce his 500 workforce?"  He responded with: "I do not intend to reduce that 500 workforce at all." So why is the situation now different and at what point after this Assembly voting for him did he perform this U-turn?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

The situation is different because since November 2014 and the early part of 2015 we soon realised, when we were working out the strategies and priorities going forward, that we wanted to invest in health. We wanted to invest in education. We wanted to invest in our economy. We wanted to invest in St. Helier .

[9:45]

We had to fund those and what came out of that, agreed by this Assembly, is some £70 million worth of staff reductions across the States. I am afraid that cannot be done without some individuals moving on from States employment.

3. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

The Minister knew that that was exactly what was going to happen. Before the election it was all the candidates which made up the Council of Ministers we are talking about during that election. So my question is: given what he told the States Assembly and the U-turn he performed after that, would he not like to take the opportunity, being broadcast over the radio now, to apologise to the workers who, as far as they were concerned on his election as Minister, they would have someone who would be defending their jobs and now it turns out it is somebody who is interested in simply flogging those jobs off to the lowest bidder?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

That is not the case. Deputy Mézec has no idea what I was thinking of in November 2014 and still has no idea what I am thinking of because it is impossible to do so. It is impossible to know what an individual is precisely thinking.

Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

Thanks to Hansard we know what they say though. Deputy E.J. Noel:

Our workforce is important. They have provided good service. Those staff that we are looking to the service reviews and the areas that they work do provide good service. In December I had the privilege of meeting many of them and awarding service awards to many of them. It does not change the situation that this Assembly has agreed to take £70 million from the States payroll costs. I am afraid that cannot be done without some people moving on to employment outside of the States sector. It is a cold light of day fact. It is not something that I certainly enjoy doing. Making people redundant either through voluntary redundancy or compulsory redundancy is not an enjoyable act.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Could the Minister clarify for Members whether his outsourcing process, which is obviously underway now, is one which is covered by redundancy law or one which is a transfer of employment covered by T.O.P.S.E. (Transfer of Public Sector Employees). Where is the protection for the workers in the system that you are setting up?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Deputy Southern knows exactly where that protection is, it is under the redundancy law.

5. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

Will the Minister be able to give an indication of what the likely impact is on the P.E.C.R.S. (Public Employees Contributory Retirement Scheme), the pension scheme that is currently run for the States?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I believe the Deputy or one of his colleagues has asked that question just 2 weeks ago. The effect on P.E.C.R.S., those people that leave States employment will have their pension effectively frozen and they will be able to draw it down at their normal retirement ages. Individuals that will be leaving States employment will have the opportunity to speak to the Pension Department to understand what their options are.

6. Deputy M. Tadier :

The question was really more so about the future funding for the scheme; when all these current public sector employees are removed from the scheme what impact is that likely to have on future viability and funding for the scheme?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I think it was just 2 weeks ago that is a matter for the actuaries to get together, the long-term funding implementations of that, but for my work on the States Employment Board over a year ago when I was a member of the States Employment Board, and when we were looking at the CARE (Career Average Revalued Earnings) Scheme, that scheme is sustainable with the number of reductions that we will see in the States manpower. In the longer term what will replace P.E.C.R.S., which is the CARE scheme, is sustainable.

7. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier :

On the P.Q.Q.s that the Minister has sent out, and they are the Minister's, does he ask the question of all the companies who expressed an interest how many registered employees they have or are allowed to have, and secondly, the pay structure of their gardeners, cleaners, et cetera? If not, why not?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

The P.Q.Q. has not gone out. What has gone out is an invitation to contractors to a briefing to come and understand about the type of services that we are reviewing. The actual P.Q.Q. document has not been produced yet.

8. Deputy J.A. Martin:

Will the Minister then guarantee that those 2 questions are put on all the P.Q.Q.s because we need to know if they are comparing like for like?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Certainly we will be comparing like for like and we will be issuing our definition of what a responsible employer is. We will also be seeking to get clarification from any potential contractor that they will be using unlicensed staff as opposed to licensed staff for our contract.

9. Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I have learnt something new today. "Moving on" means being fired from your job. When people are in the unemployment queue I am sure their long-service certificates will be of great comfort to them. When I was Minister at T.T.S. I greatly admired the dedication and hard work of the employees. In times of bad weather the teams would be out in appalling conditions clearing fallen trees, up to their waists in ice-cold seawater, putting up sandbags to prevent floods. When we have the next heavy snows with any more subbing out who are we going to call? Will the Minister agree to have respect for the employees and redouble his efforts to find a negotiated settlement with the workforce before the tendering process?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I do have respect for our workforce and that is why my officers are working extremely hard to slot in those that are in areas that we are looking to redesign the services, where other vacancies come up. We have had a number of V.R.s (voluntary redundancies) come through in the latter part of last year, and are going through the process currently. We are trying to, wherever possible, ensure that existing staff in areas that are having service reviews have the opportunity to transfer their skills to other areas of not just within the Department for Infrastructure but with other areas such as Health and Education.

The Bailiff :

Members might wish to know that we have spent 12 minutes on that question and there are 19 questions in 2 hours so we have got to do rather better if we are going to get through all the questions this morning. I appreciate that that is a matter of considerable interest.

2. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the timetable for the introduction of a charge for waste disposal:

Would the Minister set out his timetable for the introduction of a charge for waste disposal, assuming he is successful in his bid to have the "Bellozanne covenant" declared spent and extinguished by the Royal Court?

Deputy E.J. Noel (The Minister for Infrastructure):

For many years now the covenant has hampered us and has meant that the taxpayer has been subsidising commercial waste, which makes up some three-quarters of our E.f.W. (Energy from Waste) plant waste. This is just simply not fair and it needs to be addressed. The Constable agreed

at our joint meeting on 5th November that the best way to resolve the issue of the covenant is to take it to the Royal Court and to let the Royal Court decide on the status of the covenant. Currently Jersey is one of the very few places in the world where charging for waste disposal, not to be confused with collection, is not in place as a means of encouraging waste avoidance, recycling and other better environmental waste management techniques in the waste hierarchy. As a result we have in place a disincentive for the generators of commercial waste and, worse still, it is heavily subsidised by the general taxpayer. This cannot be right, both in times of climate change and in times of pressures on the public purse and the taxpayers of Jersey. Therefore it is right and proper, indeed it is appropriate and necessary, to investigate the continuing relevance of the public benefit from the Bellozanne covenant, which relates to a time, I believe, in the early 1950s when waste disposal arrangements, environmental concerns and finances were very different to those of today.

The Bailiff :

Minister, the question is about a timetable. Deputy E.J. Noel:

I am about to answer that. We are therefore working in accordance with the timetable set out in the M.T.F.P. for user pays to be introduced in 2018.

1. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Would the Minister confirm that it was his idea, not mine, to test the covenant in the Royal Court? Clearly the Parish does not have a lot of choice if the Minister proceeds that way. But could he further clarify that the effect of removing the covenant would be not only to target producers of commercial waste, which is what he spoke to in his answer, but also producers of domestic waste, in other words ordinary householders?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

Yes, it will open up the ability to charge for domestic waste produced by the Parish of St. Helier. We have always had that ability to charge for domestic waste from the other Parishes. It needs to be a level playing field here. But what is certain, from the work that we have been carrying out, is that three-quarters of that waste going to the Energy from Waste plant comes from the commercial sector. A third of that comes from the same bin lorries coming from St. Helier that bring the domestic waste.   What we need to  do is to remove that subsidy  from the taxpayer to those commercial businesses.

The Bailiff :

Can I remind Members the question is about the timetable?

2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

Hansard is a wonderful thing. During his election for Minister for Transport and Technical Services, when he was trying to extort votes out of us so that he could do this job, he was asked a question by Deputy Le Fondré about waste disposal tax in which he said: "I believe currently that it is not possible to bring waste charges in on domestic waste due to the covenant with St. Helier so it is not in my remit to implement it even if I wanted to, which I do not, but I do believe there is a strong argument for charging commercial waste." So could I ask him when this U-turn happened?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I still strongly believe that the commercial waste needs to be charged. What I have discovered since then is that I thought it was a mere .. the exact figures I am not sure, I think it was 30,000 tonnes a year commercial waste. What we have discovered is it is three-quarters of the waste at E.f.W. is commercial. That needs to be addressed.

3. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

Two questions and 2 U-turns identified and zero apologies, just platitudes, platitudes, platitudes. Would the Minister like to take the opportunity to stand up and explain why he said one thing to get elected and now is saying something completely different?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

I can probably take lessons from Deputy Mézec about giving platitudes. There has been no .. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

I have never broken an election promise.

Deputy E.J. Noel:

.. U-turn. I said in my election speech in November 2014 that I favoured bringing in a charge for commercial waste. I said in that that I did not believe that it was in my remit to raise the covenant on Bellozanne, that the Parish of St. Helier has. It is not in my remit to do so. We tried to negotiate a settlement with the Parish, it was obviously from our advice and their advice that it was not going to be possible to do that and we agreed that the way forward was to let the Royal Court opine on the covenant and to give clarification of what its current status is.

4. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence :

Does the covenant potentially impact upon the ability to raise a sewage charge and in which case does that have an impact on the timetabling?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

No, the covenant does not, as far as I am are, impact on the sewage .. the works that we are carrying out on the sewage treatment works.

Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:

That was not about the sewage treatment works. It was the ability to raise a sewage charge. Deputy E.J. Noel:

Again, as far as I believe, it has no impact on the ability to raise a sewage charge.

5. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John :

The Minister said that the taxpayer subsidises getting rid of domestic waste. Could the Minister not agree with me that we pay our taxes for this to be got rid of and if he introduces a charge we effectively will be paying twice?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

No, what I said was commercial waste. The taxpayer is subsidising commercial waste.

6. Deputy S.M. Wickenden of St. Helier :

In the timescale set out for trying to charge for commercial and domestic waste has the Minister done the work to understand how charging for domestic waste will affect the lowest income households in Jersey?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

That work is underway. We have commissioned a substantial piece of work looking at both liquid and solid waste charging mechanisms and how they can be implemented in Jersey. How they can be implemented in a fair way and also addressing to make sure that we address the concerns about the ability to pay. That document has recently been produced in its first draft and I believe was sent to the Scrutiny Panel yesterday or it is certainly on its way to the Scrutiny Panel today.

7. Deputy M. Tadier :

It seems the Minister .. there were pokes to his job in the sense that he is the only one in the Island who can do U-turns with impunity. But can the Minister give some light on whether we are seeing the emergence of a new policy direction with the Council of Ministers? We see talk of a new health charge although we see no material about what that might entail. We talk about a waste charge in here. We already have a long-term health charge. Is this perhaps the new way of ministerial government in Jersey, is that we basically no longer rely on general taxation to pay for public services but maybe in future we can see an education charge, a road charge and, in fact, the abolition of all sorts of other general taxation in favour of regressive charges?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

No, I do not believe that is the case. It certainly is not a policy decision that I am aware of. [10:00]

But what we have had is we had an M.T.F.P. debate last September and in that it was clearly stated that we would be bringing forward a health charge or health tax to cover some £35 million of the £145 million shortfall. We also said that we would be bringing in user pays charges or user pays taxes to cover 10 per cent of that.

8. The Connétable of St. Helier :

For the record, I am not happy to leave on Hansard the Minister's statement: "We tried to negotiate a settlement with the Parish of St. Helier." I think perhaps it was when I was taking a comfort break that he did that. But could the Minister just tell us, to revert to the timetable, what steps he will take should it be impossible to raise the Bellozanne covenant, certainly in his ambitious timetable he set himself to introduce the charges by 2018?

Deputy E.J. Noel:

It will be extremely difficult to raise the level of charges as set out in the M.T.F.P. by 2018 and 2019, should we be prohibited from charging commercial waste. The problem with commercial waste, it does not .. at least a third of it arrives in the back of Parish dust carts. That is a fundamental issue. If we could separate it, we could charge in a different way and remove the subsidy from the taxpayer to the commercial enterprises.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding funding the projected cost of the new hospital:

Will the Minister inform Members how he proposes to fund the projected cost of the new hospital and clearly account for the difference in costs of the 5 options under consideration?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

The future hospital will most likely be funded by what I have described as a blended solution. By that I mean it is likely to include the issuance of a further sterling sovereign bond, the use of some existing reserves, the sale of some assets and, only in an extreme circumstance, a possible charge. The final solution will of course depend on the site option chosen, as there is a considerable range in potential cost between the sites. Turning to the costs of the 5 site options under consideration, this is difficult to deal with in the time available for an oral question. However, in essence, the 2 most expensive options, that is option A, the dual site at £504 million and option C, the current hospital at £630 million. The other options are more similar in cost, ranging from £444 million to £471 million. Options A and C are more costly because they involve more complex construction than other options and include increased levels of temporary works. As such, they have significantly longer build times, 11-plus years versus 6 or 7 years for the other options, which accordingly attract higher inflation. The complexity of building on the current site, while simultaneously maintaining an operational hospital, also adds risk and therefore cost.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

The Chief Minister, the Minister for Treasury and Resources and the Council of Ministers have all said that the people will decide over the site of the new hospital. In order to help them do so will he reveal to Members the compensatory land costs in option E and the opportunity cost of not building offices or apartments in option D?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

Yes, the public, through the public consultation process, will indeed voice their opinions and I know that the Minister for Health and Social services and indeed the Council of Ministers have stated that they will listen very closely to what members of the public have to say in determining the outcome of the future hospital. With regard to land values, the question the Deputy has asked, some of that is commercially sensitive. What has, I believe, been undertaken is that the Scrutiny Panel will be provided with all the necessary information so that they can make an informed decision on the relative merit.

2. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier :

Can the Minister explain why in the space of 2½ years the option of developing the existing hospital site has risen from £460 million to £630 million for the same specification?

The Bailiff :

This is almost a matter for the Minister for Health and Social Services rather than the Minister for Treasury and Resources, is it not? The Minister for Treasury and Resources is responsible for how you fund it.

Deputy J.A. Hilton:

The reason I ask that question is because it was the Minister who told Members that the development costs of the existing hospital site are £630 million. I dispute that figure.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I shall answer the question then. My understanding is the specification is different to what was originally outlined but really the key point here is that the various figures have been externally validated. First of all, Gleeds have looked in detail at the information. They have been verified independently by Ernst & Young and, indeed, the land values, which are of course of interest to Members, have been verified by PNB Paribas.

3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:

It is my understanding the figure quoted included all the same third party acquisitions that had to be made, so I am still not understanding how there can be £170 million worth of difference in 2½ years. There must be a reason for that.

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

It is mixed up in the various land acquisition costs. As I pointed out to Members, the details of the various site values and other sensitive information will go to the Scrutiny Panel. All that information will be made available and then a report will no doubt follow. But all I can tell the Deputy is, to date, the figures that we have available have been independently verified by professional external practices and not those that have been thought up by Ministers or others internally.

Deputy J.A. Hilton:

The only comment I would like to make is I do not believe .. The Bailiff :

It is not comment time. It is question time.

4. Deputy M. Tadier :

Will the Minister for Treasury and Resources explain whether the option D costs for the Waterfront include decontamination of the site and if so, what decontamination?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

I can confirm that decontamination costs are included in those costs, but I cannot give specific details to the Deputy other than it would be done in an appropriate way to meet international standards.

5. Deputy M. Tadier :

What are we decontaminating down there? Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

There is potential for land contamination, potash and such like. As such, that will be dealt with and had to be considered as part of the assessment. I am sure Members would expect all potential costs and issues to be included within the relative costs, and that is the case in this instance.

6. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

Can the Minister explain further to his answer earlier, that he is looking at funding the hospital partly through the issue of bonds, what impact the downgrading of Jersey's credit rating has?

Senator A.J.H. Maclean:

That is a very good question. We are advised that the downgrading is going to have, if any difference, a marginal difference on the ability to raise a bond. Interestingly, if we consider the housing bond that was raised back in 2014, the gilts market has indeed fallen since then. We have seen Guernsey raise their own bond at a lower strike rate than we managed to achieve, and our rate was a fantastic rate at the time. So we therefore believe that a bond, if we were to go to the market fairly quickly - and that is why I have said publicly that a decision needs to be made earlier rather than later - would be at a strike rate, in my opinion, that would be lower than the existing housing bond that we have got. Therefore there is available cheap money for this particular exercise.

7. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Would the Minister tell us what the impact then of a British exit will have on the gilts market and all the others because it will have a significant impact?