States Meeting Transcript - 28th March 2017

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 28th MARCH 2017

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ......................................7

1. Welcome to H.E. The Lieutenant Governor .............................................7 The Deputy Bailiff :............................................................................7
2. Westminster Terrorist Attack – Letter to Speaker of the House of Commons .........7

The Deputy Bailiff :............................................................................7

3. Exhibition on History of the States Chamber............................................7 The Deputy Bailiff :............................................................................7
4. Filming in the Chamber..................................................................7 The Deputy Bailiff :............................................................................7

QUESTIONS......................................................................................7

2. Written Questions........................................................................7

1. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE FUTURE DELIVERY OF HOSPITAL SERVICES: [1(175)]..................................................................................8
2. DEPUTY J.A. HILTON OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF THE QUALITY OF FRONT LINE PRACTICE AND MANAGEMENT IN THE CHILDREN'S SERVICE: [1(176)]....................................................10
3. DEPUTY J.A. HILTON OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE NOTIFICATION OF ASBESTOS-RELATED DISEASES: [1(177)]...................................................................11
4. DEPUTY J.A. HILTON OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING MESOTHELIOMA AND OTHER ASBESTOS- RELATED DISEASES: [1(178)].......................................................12
5. THE DEPUTY OF ST. OUEN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING STATISTICAL INFORMATION IN RESPECT OF INCOME EQUALITY [1(179)]..12
6. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING STATISTICAL EVIDENCE AVAILABLE IN RESPECT OF RELATIVE LOW INCOME: [1(181)].....................................................................13
7. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE IMPACT OF THE JERSEY AIRCRAFT REGISTRY ON ECONOMIC GROWTH: [1(182)]....13

8. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE INVOLVEMENT OF MINISTERS IN ADDRESSING FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS: [1(183)]................................................14
9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE IMPACT OF THE DEPARTMENT'S POLICIES ON HOUSEHOLDS RELIANT UPON INCOME SUPPORT: [1(184)] Question..........14
10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE PROSPECT OF A REVIEW OF THE HEALTH INSURANCE FUND: [1(185)].........................................................15
11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE CHOICE-BASED LETTINGS SYSTEM: [1(186)] ...............15
12. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF H.M. ATTORNEY GENERAL REGARDING THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMPLIANCE OF ARTICLES 8(3)(b) AND 8(4)(b) OF THE STATES OF JERSEY LAW 2005: [1(187)]..........................16
13. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING TRAFFIC DATA FOR CERTAIN ROADS IN ST. HELIER: [1(188)] ......................................................................17
14. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE NUMBER OF VISITORS SEEKING INFORMATION BEFORE AND AFTER THE CREATION OF VISIT JERSEY: [1(189)] .............................................18
15. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING EMPLOYMENT LEVELS AT THE JERSEY FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION: [1(190)]...............................................................19
16. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING ENTITIES REGISTERED WITH, OR LICENCED BY, THE GAMBLING COMMISSION: [1(191)]................................................................................20

3. Oral questions ...........................................................................21

Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.............................................................21 Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier:...........................................................22

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier of the Minister for Social Security regarding the publication of a report on the potential impact of a significant rise in the minimum wage: [1(201)]................................................................................23 Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security):..........................23

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................23
2. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier:.......................................................23
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................24
4. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:....................................................24
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................24
6. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................24
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................24
8. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................25

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the impact on the transition to the new policy on delivery of personal care in the home ofany failure by Family Nursing and Home Care and Health Care Assistants to reach agreement: [1(199)]....................................................................25 Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):........................25

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................25

2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................25
3. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................26
4. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................26
5. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................26
6. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................27
7. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence : .............................................27
8. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................27
9. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................27
10. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................28
11. Deputy M.R.Higgins:...............................................................28
12. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. John : ....................................................28

13. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................28

3. Deputy M.R. Higgins of H.M. Attorney General regarding the bankruptcy provisions of Articles 8(3)(b) and 8(4)(b) of the States of Jersey Law 2005: [1(194)].................29 Mr. R.J. McRae, H.M. Attorney General: ....................................................29

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................30
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................31
3. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................31
   4. Deputy J.A. Hilton of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding the prospective holding of a debate by the States Assembly following the publication of the report of the Independent Jersey Care Inquiry: [1(196)]..............................................32 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................32

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................32
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................32
3. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................32

5. Deputy R.J. Renouf of St. Ouen of the Chief Minister regarding consultation on draft Regulations to be made under the Regulation of Care (Jersey) Law 2014:[1(192)]......33 Senator P.F. Routier (Assistant Chief Minister - rapporteur):.................................33

1. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................33
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................33
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................34
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................34
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................34
6. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
7. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................35
8. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................35

6. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Chief Minister regarding the means available to the public to address excesses or misdemeanours of the Island's public servants and public bodies: [1(195)]................................................................................35 Senator I.J. Gorst (The Chief Minister):......................................................35

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................36
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................36
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................37
4. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................37
5. Senator S.C. Ferguson:.................................................................37
6. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour:.....................................................37
7. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................38

7. The Deputy of St. Ouen of the Chief Minister regarding the statistical evidence available to support statements that relative low income had reduced: [1(193)]...................39 Senator P.F. Routier (Assistant Chief Minister - rapporteur):.................................39

1. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................39
2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................39
3. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................40
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................40
5. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................40
6. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................41
7. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................41
8. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................42
9. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................42
10. Deputy A.D. Lewis : .................................................................43
11. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................43
12. The Deputy of St. Ouen:.............................................................44

8. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Social Security regarding figures showing the real-term reductions which had been made to Income Support components: [1(200)] ..45 Deputy S.J. Pinel (The Minister for Social Security):.........................................45

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................45
2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................45

9. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture regarding actions to mitigate any loss of taxpayers' money, andthe lessons learnt, in respect of the Jersey Aircraft Registry: [1(202)]..............................46 Senator L.J. Farnham (The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture): .........................................................................................46

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................46
2. Connétable J.E. Le Maistre of Grouville :...............................................47
3. The Connétable of Grouville :...........................................................47
4. Deputy S.M. Brée of St. Clement:......................................................47

5. Deputy S.M. Brée:......................................................................47
6. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................48
7. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................48
8. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................49
9. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary:........................................................49
10. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................50
11. Deputy G.P. Southern : ..............................................................50
12. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :.................................................................50

4. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Social Security.............52

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................52 Deputy S.J. Pinel (The Minister for Social Security):.........................................52

1. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................52
   2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................52

4.2.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................53

3. Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier:..........................................................53

4.3.1 Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................53

4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier:...............................................53

4.4.1 The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................54

5. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................54
6. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................54

4.6.1 Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................54

7. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour:.................................................55

4.7.1 Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :................................................................55

8. Deputy J.A. Hilton:.....................................................................55
9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................55

4.9.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................55

5. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for External Relations.........56

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................56 Senator P.M. Bailhache (The Minister for External Relations):...............................56

1. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................56
   2. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................56

5.2.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................57

3. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour:......................................................57
4. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................57
5. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................58
6. Deputy S.M. Brée:......................................................................58

5.6.1 Deputy S.M. Brée:......................................................................58

7. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................58

5.7.1 Deputy M.R. Higgins:..................................................................59

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY........................59

6. Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour , on behalf of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel, made a statement regarding the Panel's report, Tertiary Education: Student Finance..........................................................................59

6.1 Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................59

1. Deputy R.G. Bryans of St. Helier:......................................................60
2. Deputy M.R.Higgins:..................................................................61
3. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................61
4. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................61
5. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................61
6. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................62

PUBLIC BUSINESS.............................................................................62

7. Television Licence Fee: exemption for Jersey residents aged 75 and over (P.117/2016)

- as amended.............................................................................62

7.1 Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................63

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED..................................................70 [12:40]............................................................................................70 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................70

1. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................70
2. Senator P.F. Routier: ...................................................................71
3. Connétable M.P.S. Le Troquer of St. Martin:...........................................73
4. Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier:.......................................................75
5. Deputy S.M. Brée:......................................................................76
6. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :....................................................................77
7. Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement:.................................................78
8. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................79
9. Deputy G.P. Southern :..................................................................80
10. Deputy S.J. Pinel:....................................................................81
11. Senator I.J. Gorst : ...................................................................81

12. Deputy M. Tadier :...................................................................84

8. Draft Referendum (Jersey) Law 201- (P.4/2017).......................................88

1. The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):....88
2. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................89

1. The Deputy of St. Ouen:................................................................89
2. The Connétable of St. Martin:..........................................................89
3. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................89

3. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................90
4. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................90

1. The Connétable of St. John:............................................................91
2. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................91

3. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................91

5. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................92

1. Senator P.M. Bailhache : ................................................................92
2. Deputy A.D. Lewis :....................................................................93
3. Deputy M. Tadier :......................................................................93
4. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................94

9. Draft Employment of States of Jersey Employees (Amendment No. 8) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.11/2017)............................................................95

1. Senator A.K.F. Green (Rapporteur): ....................................................95

1. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré:..............................................................96
   2. Senator A.K.F. Green: ..................................................................97

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS ....................97

10. The Connétable of St. Clement (Chairman Privileges and Procedures Committee): ....97

1. Deputy J.M. Maçon:....................................................................97
2. Senator I.J. Gorst :......................................................................98
3. The Connétable of St. Helier:...........................................................98
4. The Connétable of St. Clement:........................................................98
5. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:................................................................98

1. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................99
2. The Deputy of St. John:..............................................................99
3. Senator A.J.H. Maclean:.............................................................99

ADJOURNMENT..............................................................................100

[9:30]

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer. COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

1. Welcome to H.E. The Lieutenant Governor

The Deputy Bailiff :

I am sure Members would wish to join me in welcoming His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor to his first ordinary sitting of the Assembly this morning. [Approbation]

2. Westminster Terrorist Attack – Letter to Speaker of the House of Commons

The Deputy Bailiff :

The Bailiff wrote to the Speaker of the House of Commons last week with regard to the attack on the House of Commons on Wednesday last. In a moment I will read the letter but may I suggest that Members may wish to show their solidarity with parliamentarians in the United Kingdom and our determination not to be silenced by acts of terror in the traditional Jersey manner by means of a foot-stamp when the letter has been concluded. The Bailiff wrote: "Dear Mr. Speaker. I am writing on behalf of the people in States of Jersey to express our deep sympathy for the attack on the House of Commons yesterday. I would particularly like to extend our condolences to the families of those killed or injured in the attack and to pay tribute to the commitment to duty of the police officer who lost his life in New Palace Yard. It is at times like these that we realise how much we all depend on the security and emergency services and we should remind ourselves of that debt more frequently than I expect most of us do. We in the States of Jersey stand united with the House of Commons and other democratic legislators in rejecting violence and upholding democratic principles and the rule of law. In that context, I especially commend your decision to ensure that the House met as usual today to carry on its normal business. There could be no better way of exemplifying the importance of democratic politics and the commitment of the politicians and staff who support it. Yours sincerely, William Bailhache ." [Approbation]

3. Exhibition on History of the States Chamber

The Deputy Bailiff :

Thirdly, I would like to bring to Members' attention to the fact that preparations are under way by the States Greffe for an exhibition later this year about the construction of this Chamber. June will see the 130th anniversary of the Chamber's opening and the exhibition will mark the event by explaining this part of the Assembly's history. There will be a launch event on Wednesday, 21st June, the day of the anniversary itself, after which the Bailiff has agreed that the exhibition may be housed for a time in the atrium of the Court building. I understand that the Greffe has approached the Comité des Connétable s about then taking the exhibition on tour around the Parishes to increase public access. Further news about the exhibition will be forthcoming in due course.

4. Filming in the Chamber

The Deputy Bailiff :

Lastly, because we have a new Lieutenant Governor, the media have asked that they be allowed to take library film and photographs at the next sitting of the Assembly on 18th April, on the assumption that the Assembly is content with that then permission will be given. The normal period within which media are allowed to prepare their library footage is from the beginning of the Assembly until the beginning of Question Time. Very well.

QUESTIONS

2. Written Questions

1. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE FUTURE DELIVERY OF HOSPITAL SERVICES: [1(175)]

Question

Further to the Assembly's approval of Future Hospital: preferred site' (P.110/2016), will the Minister set out the range of services that the Department of Health and Social Services will provide from the new Hospital and explain how the Department will ensure that sustainable and accessible transport links are maintained (or improved) for specialisms required off-Island?

Answer

The new hospital will broadly provide all that the existing hospital provides. The new build will not prevent us from doing anything that we currently do or automatically allow us to do more. We will continually seek to undertake treatment on island where clinically safe and cost effective to do so.

Services in the New Hospital will include all of the following:

24/7 services

Emergency Department

Emergency in-patient facilities and 24/7 medical staff for Medical, Surgical and Paediatric care Maternity Unit, Obstetric Theatre and Special Care Baby Unit

Emergency Theatre

Intensive Care Unit and High Dependency Unit

Imaging

Pathology

Pharmacy

Physiotherapy

Medical Records – with out of hours retrieval

Estates and Facilities

Planned/elective/out-patient services

Renal dialysis

Oncology unit with chemotherapy provision

Medical Day Unit

Day of Surgery Unit

Elective in-patient beds

Orthopaedics

Breast Surgery

Colorectal Surgery

General Surgery

Urology

Vascular Surgery

Ears Nose & Throat Ophthalmology

Cardiology

Gynaecology

Oral surgery

General Medicine

Neurology

Pain Management

Diabetes

Rheumatology

Nephrology

Paediatrics

Haematology

Gastroenterology

Cardiology

Respiratory

Infections and Blood borne diseases Genital Urinary Medicine Off-island provision

Emergency and urgent transfers for conditions such as multiple trauma, head injuries, burns, cardiac interventional care etc. will be flown urgently to a specialist centre by our contracted air ambulance and this will continue to be the case in the future.

Across the whole spectrum of elective services there will be cases that are rare or complex and that are best managed in specialist centres. These cases will be referred off-island and include services such as:

Radiotherapy Neurosurgery

Complex Spinal Surgery Transplant Surgery Complex Paediatric cases Cardiothoracic Surgery Second opinions or advice

It is highly unlikely that we will undertake these services on-island due to the low number of patients requiring these treatments and the need for specialist skills and equipment.

Off-island transport and access

We have partnerships, via contracts, with key UK Specialist Centres. In recent years, these contracts have also required the UK centre to provide transport links from airports to their hospitals. The vast majority of our patients fly to airports where there are multiple daily flights and reasonable road/rail transport to the hospital (Southampton/Gatwick).

If flights are added or removed by the airline companies we will reassess the logistics hospital by hospital and adjust our patient flows accordingly.

The emergency transfers are undertaken via a contract with a specific provider. The current contract is due for renewal and will be finalised later in the summer. The sustainability of the service is a key element of the service specification.

Occasionally, due to adverse weather conditions, a helicopter is required to transport a patient off- island. This method of transport will be used if the patient's clinical condition cannot be safely or appropriately managed on-island whilst waiting for the weather to improve so a standard emergency flight can be undertaken.

2. DEPUTY J.A. HILTON OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF THE QUALITY OF FRONT LINE PRACTICE AND MANAGEMENT IN THE CHILDREN'S SERVICE: [1(176)]

Question

Further to the Independent audit of the quality of front line practice and management', undertaken between May and July 2015 in respect of the Children's Service, and the recommendations arising from the four phases of that audit, will the Minister advise which, if any, of the recommendations were adopted and state what criteria will be used to measure performance and the outcome of those recommendations to ensure that a difference is made to the lives of children in the Island?

Answer

The four audits that considered a small sample of practice ranged from entry to the service through to considering the circumstances of looked after children. All of the recommendations of the audits were accepted and were incorporated into the Children's Service improvement programme.

Completed actions include:

• The permanent establishment of the post of team manager in the Multi-Agency Safeguarding Hub (MASH)
• MASH manual and guidance in place
• Staff training and development
• Strengthened management oversight of decision-making
• Development of a child's single assessment and plan
• Performance indicators in place for child protection
• Significant number of cases reviewed and quality assured
• Documentation for looked after children reviewed and further developed
• Pathway plans in place for care leavers
• Permanent independent reviewing officers in place
• Staff receiving regular reflective supervision.

Longer term actions such as the development of a corporate parenting strategy are ongoing across the partnership working with children.

These audits have been part of a broader framework of quality assurance developed in the service and across the range of agencies working with children in Jersey.

The Children's Service is underpinning its improvement work using the framework tried and tested by the Scott ish Care Inspectorate: How well are we improving the lives of children and young people?'  This framework is validated by the European Foundation for Quality Management (EFQM) and provides a method of measuring outcomes for children. The service will self-evaluate its progress using this framework.

The service has adopted a performance management framework based on Annex A (National Performance Indicators) used in England as well as a number of information management processes to ensure oversight of progress and to ensure a proactive approach is taken to service planning and delivery.

Children's plans are outcome focused and are SMART (specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, time bound) and are reviewed on a regular basis to measure progress. Practitioners use validated tools to measure progress of a child or young person against the outcomes of safe, healthy, achieving, nurtured, active, respected, responsible and included.

The new Children's Service IT system has been commissioned and will provide individual client information as well as a number of business reports. These business reports will include a range of performance reports with the facility to aggregate and collate information on outcomes (target and achieved). This will include quantitative and qualitative outcomes and the development of proxy indicators to measure the wellbeing and protection of children and young people.

The installation of the system is scheduled to start in April 2017 which will include service-wide testing, staff training and incorporating Jersey legislation and policy, with a planned implementation across the Service by the end of 2017.

3. DEPUTY J.A. HILTON OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE NOTIFICATION OF ASBESTOS-RELATED DISEASES: [1(177)]

Question

As asbestos-related diseases are considered to be industrial diseases in the U.K. and elsewhere, will the Minister explain why they are not designated as such in Jersey and why all notifications of asbestos-related diseases are not routinely given to the Health and Safety Inspectorate?

Answer

The answer provided presumes that Deputy Hilton's reference to asbestos-related diseases being considered industrial diseases' relates  to the classification of certain  occupationally acquired, asbestos-related diseases as prescribed diseases' under the UK Industrial Injuries Scheme'.

In the UK the Industrial Injuries Scheme' provides non-contributory, no-fault benefits for disablement because of an accident at work or because of one of over 70 prescribed diseases known to be a risk from certain jobs. The list of prescribed diseases for which benefits are paid include work-related asbestos-related diseases, namely asbestosis and mesothelioma, as well as lung cancer and pleural thickening where there is a history of substantial work-related asbestos exposures.

The basis of the Law for these benefits in the UK is contained in the Social Security Act, 1998, the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act, 1992 and the Social Security Administration Act, 1992. The States of Jersey has not adopted an equivalent benefit scheme, so no equivalent list of designated or prescribed industrial' diseases exists.

There would be little, if any, tangible benefit of the Health and Safety Inspectorate being notified of asbestos-related diseases at the time of diagnosis. Asbestos-related diseases have a very long latency period between first exposure to asbestos and the onset of disease, which can vary between 15 and 60 years. By the time of diagnosis, it would not be possible to identify exactly where or when the workplace exposure that led to the disease occurred so there is very little that can be done from a Health and Safety Inspectorate perspective. The emphasis must therefore be placed on preventing exposures to asbestos now, as this is the only way to eliminate asbestos-related diseases in the future. I can confirm that this remains a high priority issue for the Health and Safety Inspectorate.

4. DEPUTY J.A. HILTON OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING MESOTHELIOMA AND OTHER ASBESTOS- RELATED DISEASES: [1(178)]

Question

Further to an undertaking made in October 2014 to a constituent by the Medical Officer of Health that all deaths from mesothelioma, or other asbestos-related diseases, would be followed up with the Viscount and local medical practitioners (with reference to potential exposure history as well as a full occupational history) in order to build up a prospective picture of the pattern of such diseases and any relevant exposures to risk, will the Minister explain whether or not this has happened and, if not, explain why not and state when that undertaking will be implemented?

Answer

Following the 2014 undertaking in a letter to a member of the public with an interest in the subject, the MOH asked the Public Health Intelligence Unit to devise a process aiming to collect the desired information. There have been ten deaths recorded as due to malignant mesothelioma since 2014. A new form was created and has been in use, sent to the deceased's GP, as recorded in the Deaths Database, in relation to deaths which were recorded as due to mesothelioma or asbestos-related causes. Enquiries were also made to the Deputy Viscount in cases where there had been an inquest, from which additional information could potentially be gleaned.

This new process has not yielded any additional useful information. It emerged that GPs do not hold information in their records about an individual's full occupational history spanning up to 40 years of a working life: there was only very limited information able to be provided about the most recent occupation, none of which pointed to any pattern. Nor was there sufficient information available from inquests.

5. THE DEPUTY OF ST. OUEN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING STATISTICAL INFORMATION IN RESPECT OF INCOME EQUALITY [1(179)]

Question

Will the Chief Minister list each source of published statistical information which together comprises the "the full range of published statistics" used by the Council of Ministers to monitor income inequalities, as reported in his answer to Written Question 1(160) tabled on 14th March 2017?

Answer

The Statistics Unit produce a wide range of statistics as outlined in their programme of releases. This includes periodic, detailed surveys which provide information on incomes, income inequality, and how people on different incomes are faring financially, such as the "Household Income Distribution Survey", the "Jersey Opinions and Lifestyle Survey", and the "Housing Affordability Index".

In addition, more frequent statistics are produced which provide insight into these areas, including average earnings, employment, unemployment, inflation, and rents and house prices.

Alongside this, reports are commissioned from time to time by government which provide information and insight on issues around incomes, income inequality, and how people at different incomes are faring financially and effected by policy decisions, for example, the distributional analysis undertaken as part of the Medium Term Financial Plan, and the forthcoming such as the personal tax review, the review of the economic and fiscal impacts of increases in the minimum wage, and the review of the economic value of migration.

6. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING STATISTICAL EVIDENCE AVAILABLE IN RESPECT OF RELATIVE LOW INCOME: [1(181)]

Question

What statistical evidence, if any, does the Chief Minister have to back up the statement made in the answer to Written Question 1(160) from Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier that "relative low income is reducing"?

Answer

Income inequality reduced between the Jersey Income Distribution Surveys of 2002 – 2009/10 as our economy performed well, and deteriorated between the surveys of 2009/10 – 2014/15 as the impact of the financial crisis affected people's incomes.

In particular, the deterioration between 2009/10 and 2014/15 was driven by a reduction in the employment income of those aged between 30 – 39 and unqualified people, and as low interest rates and rents stretched out the distribution after housing costs.

Since then, the range of economic statistics are much more positive, with unemployment at a six year low; participation at a high of 86%; and earnings rising above inflation for four consecutive years (2013 – 2016) after 3 years of below inflation increases (2010 – 2012). So more people in work and earning more. The 2014 Jersey Annual Social Survey provided some advance indication of this more positive outlook, reporting that while there had been no material change in numbers reporting they were finding it difficult to cope financially, the proportion who said their situation had worsened in the last 12 months had reduced considerably, and those who said their situation had improved in the last 12 months had increased.

We have more to do to ensure that the positive economic changes that are taking place benefit more people across our Island. As the review of personal taxes has shown, we have a more progressive tax system; and our approach to spending, for example, investment in health and education, helps those who need it most. With more information and statistics than ever before, we can and will do more to help those on lower incomes.

7. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC  OF ST.  HELIER OF THE MINISTER  FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TOURISM, SPORT AND CULTURE REGARDING THE IMPACT OF THE JERSEY AIRCRAFT REGISTRY ON ECONOMIC GROWTH: [1(182)]

Question

Further to the response to Written Question 1(15), in which seven items relating to the Jersey Aircraft Registry were included in a list of legislative measures which could demonstrate a tangible effect on promoting economic growth, will the Minister explain why these seven items were included given that only two aircraft had been registered and that, taking into account the cost in setting up the Registry compared with how much it had made in registration fees, it was running a deficit of close to £850,000?

Answer

The development of an aircraft registry approved by this Assembly has always been an investment in the long-term future of Jersey.

I can inform the Deputy that Jersey remains well placed to maximise the economic benefits of having an aircraft registry.

The Deputy appears to understand the term economic growth as meaning Government Departments must generate a return from the registry almost immediately.

The aim of the Department is, in the fullness of time, to recover the investment. However, Government has made the investment to ensure that, in the long term, Jersey enjoys the benefits of the registry as was always the stated case.

In the meantime, I, my Assistant Ministers, and the Council of Ministers, are responsible enough to take the long-term view and we remain confident that our aircraft registry will prove successful.

8. DEPUTY S.Y. MÉZEC OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE INVOLVEMENT OF MINISTERS IN ADDRESSING FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS: [1(183)]

Question

What involvement, if any, do Ministers have in assisting with gathering the relevant information to answer Freedom of Information requests; and are Ministers shown Freedom of Information requests when the subject involves their Department?

Answer

Ministers do not have a role in the gathering of relevant information to answer Freedom of Information requests, although they may be informed of the existence of a request as a courtesy, in particular, where the request requires Departments to search files and correspondence in the names of Ministers.

9. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE IMPACT OF THE DEPARTMENT'S POLICIES ON HOUSEHOLDS RELIANT UPON INCOME SUPPORT: [1(184)] Question

Will the Minister advise whether she has information available to her showing that the reduction in value of Income Support components in real terms since 2009 was £43.79 for a couple with one child and £75.39 for a lone parent?

If so, will the Minister explain why those figures were not provided in response to Oral Question 1(163) from Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade on 14th March 2017, given that such figures would be very close to the estimates of £45 and £75 initially provided in the question; and will she confirm whether the support offered to low-income households through Income Support components (adult, child and household) has therefore seen a real-terms reductions of the order outlined above as a result of the decisions of her Department?

Will the Minister also provide the source of the figures she cited on 14th March 2017 that the average total income for lone parents has risen by £75 a week and for a couple with children by £123 a week, given that figures available in the Minister's annual reports comparing 2015 with 2012 suggest smaller increases have occurred?

Answer

This question was inadvertently not distributed by the States Greffe to the Minister for Social Security in time for a response to be provided. The question will be carried over to the next meeting but will not be counted amongst the five written questions which Deputy Southern could table for answering at that meeting.

10. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE PROSPECT OF A REVIEW OF THE HEALTH INSURANCE FUND: [1(185)]

Question

Alongside the review of the Social Security Fund, will the Minister undertake to review the Health Insurance Fund and, in particular, whether the decision taken by one of her predecessors to remove prescription charges continues to be sustainable given the growth in expenditure on pharmaceutical benefit to £13.5 million in 2015?

Answer

The Health Insurance Fund is not part of the Social Security Review which is currently being undertaken by the department.

A Sustainable Primary Care Strategy for Jersey' was published in December 2015 and sets out five ambitions', one of which is payment. The funding for services, including the reintroduction of a prescription charge, remains an option for consideration and such deliberations will be made in the context of the development of primary care services and with input from partners in Health and Social Services. An external consultancy is assisting Social Security and Health and Social Services with an assessment of current funding and payment systems in primary care, and the role of prescription charges will be considered in the context of this wider review.

The Health Insurance Fund is subject to actuarial review at five year intervals. The last review reported on the condition of the fund as at 31 December 2012, therefore a further review is due which will consider the condition of the fund as at 31 December 2017. This review will be undertaken during the summer of 2018 when all claims on the Health Insurance Fund have been processed and activity in the fund for the period of the review (2013 to 2017) is stable.

11. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING REGARDING THE CHOICE-BASED LETTINGS SYSTEM: [1(186)]

Question

Will the Minister outline how the new system of choice–based lettings, in which potential tenants are encouraged to bid for properties, works in conjunction with the strict date order under which the waiting list for social housing operates; will she account for the high refusal rates experienced in 2015, as reported in Andium Homes: Annual Report 2015' (R.76/2016); and will she state what measures, if any, have been adopted in response to these refusal rates and with what success?

Answer

The Andium Homes choice-based lettings system gives applicants registered on the Affordable Housing Gateway waiting list the opportunity to express interest in, and view, available social rented properties.

An  available property will  be offered to  an applicant who (having  expressed  interest  in that property) has the highest priority. In this case, priority is determined by:

• Band – applicants in band 1 receive the highest priority.
• Date order – the applicant who has been waiting longest in the highest band will take priority.
• Housing  requirements  – the  property  must  be  suitable  for  the  applicant's  stated requirements (e.g. a need for a ground floor property or a walk-in shower).

This process is consistent with the policies of the Affordable Housing Gateway.

If the applicant with the highest priority turns down the property, the next person with the highest priority registered on the waiting list will be offered the property.

Andium Homes introduced a choice-based letting system in 2016, following a pilot scheme in 2015. Prior to this, offers for housing had been made directly to applicants. However, direct offers did not provide an efficient lettings process, resulting in a large number of refusals from applicants who were not interested in the properties that had been offered to them (as identified in the 2015 Andium Homes Annual Report).

The  introduction  of  a  choice-based  lettings  system  has  shown  positive  results,  providing  an efficient, clear and customer-oriented approach to the allocation of social housing. In the 1st quarter of 2016, for instance, the average turnaround time for properties was 42 days, which has reduced to 23 days in the 1st quarter of 2017. Moreover, the number of offers turned down by applicants has reduced significantly:

Properties refused as a percentage of offers made

The advantage of the choice-based lettings system is that it enables applicants to make informed decisions about the type and location of the property they can let, which is more likely to result in them living in a property they can settle in and enjoy.

The introduction of the choice-based lettings system is consistent with the Minister's Housing Strategy, which identifies the need to make the best use of housing resources by ensuring the efficient letting of social rented housing.

12. DEPUTY  M.R. HIGGINS  OF ST.  HELIER  OF  H.M. ATTORNEY  GENERAL REGARDING THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMPLIANCE OF ARTICLES 8(3)(b) AND 8(4)(b) OF THE STATES OF JERSEY LAW 2005: [1(187)]

Question

Will H.M. Attorney General explain how Articles 8(3)(b) and 8(4)(b) of the States of Jersey Law 2005 are Human Rights compliant?

Answer

From a European Convention on Human Rights ("ECHR") perspective the most relevant right is Article 3 of the First Protocol to the ECHR ("A3P1"), which provides –

"The High Contracting Parties undertake to hold free elections at reasonable intervals by secret ballot, under conditions which will ensure the free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of the legislature."

Limitations on A3P1 rights are permitted provided that they do not impair the very essence of the rights or deprive them of their effectiveness and provided they are imposed in pursuit of, and proportionate to, some legitimate aim (Mathieu-Mohin v Belgium (1987) 10 EHRR 1, para 52).

A state is afforded a considerable margin of appreciation by the European Court of Human Rights ("ECtHR") in determining what is proportionate. The ECtHR case law reflects that restrictions on eligibility to be a candidate may amount to a limitation on A3P1 rights. However, the ECtHR has accepted that stricter restrictions can be placed on the right to be a candidate than on the right to vote and in Zdanoka v. Latvia (2007) 45 EHRR 478, the Grand Chamber held (para 106):

"the Contracting States enjoy considerable latitude in establishing constitutional rules on the status of members of parliament, including criteria governing eligibility to stand for election. Although they have a common origin in the need to ensure both the independence of elected representatives and the freedom of choice of electors, these criteria vary in accordance with the historical and political factors specific to each State. The multiplicity of situations provided for in the constitutions and electoral legislation of numerous member States of the Council of Europe shows the diversity of possible approaches in this area."

Disqualifying a person who has become bankrupt or made a composition or arrangement with his or her creditors from being elected serves legitimate aims of protecting public money and mitigating the risk of undue financial influence effecting the work of the legislature. Arguably a person who is bankrupt or has entered into an arrangement with regard to his or her debts may present a greater risk, both with regard to the proper management of public money and of being subject to undue financial influence. Preventing a person from standing for election for up to five years from the conclusion of the bankruptcy proceedings or the making of the arrangement is not disproportionate to these aims.

13. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING TRAFFIC DATA FOR CERTAIN ROADS IN ST. HELIER: [1(188)]

Question

Will the Minister publish data for the years 2015 and 2016 to show traffic numbers, flows and accidents during both peak time and non-peak time on St. Aubin's Road and Victoria Avenue; and will he publish similar information in respect of Bellozanne Road, Tower Road, West Hill and any road which runs between St. Aubin's Road and Victoria Avenue?

Answer

The data requested above has been provided below. Accidents

The Department only has data to May 2016 as more recent data is not yet available. In the period Jan 2015 to May 2016, the following personal injury accidents were recorded:

The Department does not collect accident information itself, but works from information provided from the States of Jersey Police. Data is not collected where only damage has been caused to vehicles.

Traffic Data

The Department only has traffic data for Victoria Avenue from the roads specified above during 2015 and 2016.

The data was recorded from a manual traffic count of the PIERSON ROAD / ESPLANADE / VICTORIA AVENUE / A1 Junction and was undertaken on 10/11/2015.

The data for Victoria Avenue is provided over the next six pages.

14. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,  TOURISM,  SPORT  AND  CULTURE  REGARDING  THE NUMBER OF VISITORS SEEKING INFORMATION BEFORE AND AFTER THE CREATION OF VISIT JERSEY: [1(189)]

Question

Will the Minister provide the number of visitors who:

1. sought information at the old Tourism Department in the three years before Visit Jersey was created; and
2. have sought information from the tourism information section at the Jersey Museum since Visit Jersey was created?

Answer

TIC footfall

2015 March 7,333 April 9,600 May 14,949 June 15,127 July 18,514 August 22,025 September 16,066 October

November

December

2016

7,469 2% 10,706 12% 13,207 -12% 14,634 -3% 15,944 -14% 17,725 -20% 14,125 -12% 10,343

4,945

4,664

* Data was not collected from October 2015 to February 2016 due to low numbers of visitors out of the main holiday season.

**TIC moved to Jersey Museum from 24th February 2016

TIC footfall at the previous site and Jersey Museum is shown in the table above. The data before 2015 has been archived and what we hold will be circulated once retrieved from Jersey Archive.

Visitor habits when accessing information for a holiday are changing. This change is driven by mobile technology and free WIFI. People now access information online before travelling and up to the minute information in a destination via mobile phones and websites like TripAdvisor.

Therefore, Tourist Information Centres (TICs) are changing and evolving. Research has shown that most European TICs are changing the way they provide tourist information because fewer tourists are visiting TIC's. Visitors increasingly get information from the internet. Tourist expect free WIFI with easy access, especially in cities. This is becoming the preferred way of accessing information.

It perhaps helpful to acknowledge that access to Visit Jersey's digital sites (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and jersey.com) have shown increases without exception throughout 2016 and this trend is continuing into 2017.

15. DEPUTY  M.R. HIGGINS  OF  ST.  HELIER  OF THE  CHIEF  MINISTER REGARDING EMPLOYMENT LEVELS AT THE JERSEY FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION: [1(190)]

Question

Will the Chief Minister request the Jersey Financial Services Commission to provide the following information for members?

1. The number of staff employed by the Commission in each section or department, broken down further to show the number of years each employee has  been employed by the Commission; and
2. The level of staff turnover at the Commission over the last five years, together with an explanation of the reasons for such turnover.

Answer

1. The Jersey Financial Services Commission ("JFSC") employed 129 people as at 1st March 2017 across a range of full-time and part-time positions. This breaks down into department level headcount as follows:

Supervision 61 Operations 27 Policy 15 Registry 14 Enforcement  9 Director General's Office 3

The average length of service is 5.71 years.

2. Staff turnover (as a % of headcount) over the past 5 calendar years was: 2012 10.4%

2013 5.5%

2014 8.7%

2015 21.7%

2016 8.7%

The spike in turnover during 2015 was commented on within the JFSC Annual Report for that year. This was a year when industry demand for good quality risk and compliance staff resulted in comparatively high staff attrition for the Commission as a large percentage of staff left  for  employment  in  regulated  entities,  this  was  especially  prevalent  in  Supervision. Efforts have since been concentrated on growing resilience to this particular issue and an enhanced focus on structure, succession planning and the overall employee proposition has resulted in a more sustainable level of staff turnover.

16. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,  TOURISM,  SPORT  AND  CULTURE  REGARDING  ENTITIES REGISTERED  WITH,  OR  LICENCED  BY, THE  GAMBLING  COMMISSION: [1(191)]

Question

Will the Minister request the Gambling Commission to provide the following information for members?

1. the number and type of businesses that are registered or licensed with the Commission and the income derived from each of these registered / licensed entities; and
2. the number of internet gambling licences which have been issued, if any.

Will the Minister also explain whether or not the Commission has generated the levels of business and income originally envisaged when it was first established?

Answer

1. The data requested by the Deputy is contained in the Annual Reports published by the Commission and a list of current licensees is freely available from the Commission's website: https://www.jgc.je/list-of-licensees.

As of March 2017, the terrestrial industry in the Island was made up of 7 Class 1 Bookmakers (operating 90 gaming machines in 26 shops), 2 Class 2 (on course) Bookmakers, a Parimutual Operator, 2 Crown and Anchor Operators, 29 Thrift Clubs, 3 Hosting Providers, a Gambling Software Provider and 2 Personal Gambling Licence Holders. There is also a Promotional Prize lottery in progress, plus a seasonal amusement with prizes' licence awarded for the summer season, as well as a small number of gambling machines licensed to operate in 19 pubs, clubs and restaurants. There are also 4 remote gambling operators and 3 platform providers. Licence fee income for 2016 (unaudited) amounted to £549,052.

2. There are seven remote gambling licences in operation, with a further two currently being processed. Four ofthese licences are for remote gambling operators, while the otherthree are platform providers who provide remote gambling services to other businesses.

The Commission is an independent regulator created by the Gambling Commission (Jersey) Law, 2010. Its functions are prescribed by that statute and are as follows:

"(a) the general supervision of gambling, including in particular –

1. supervision of providers of gambling services, and
2. investigation of whether any person is complying with, contravening, or committing an offence under an enactment relating to gambling; and

(b) any other function conferred on or transferred to the Commission under this Law or any other enactment."

No such other function has been so conferred or transferred. The Commission's functions are therefore regulatory, and do not extend to generating gambling business and income. The Commission receives no public funding.

3. Oral questions

The Deputy Bailiff :

But we now come on to Oral Questions, the first question Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

Before you do that, Sir, may I ask a point of order? This week I have had 2 oral questions refused and it is the first time in 8 years that I have not managed to get them revised to make them in order and they were relating to whether or not the Ministers, Senator Maclean and Senator Farnham , had offered their resignation or had been asked to resign. I was told that they are not in order. Could the Chair clarify for the public and the Assembly why these are not in order?

The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , the position is, as I understand it, that you have asked for written reasons from the Bailiff as to why he ruled those questions to be out of order and the Bailiff has provided those written reasons. There is no matter for decision before the Assembly or for ruling by me at this point and, therefore, the matter rests with the Bailiff 's communication of his reasons to you.

Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

Sir, could I just clarify a point? My understanding is that any question that we submit has to be legal, it must not be invoking a crime. It must be according to Standing Orders and there is a third, which is not terribly onerous either and questions like that do not fall within the exclusions from Standing Orders. Can you just clarify what the Standing Orders are with questions and try and explain why it was not allowed?

The Deputy Bailiff :

No, Deputy , this is not a matter for questions of the Chair on matters that were not before the Assembly today. As I say, the Bailiff has communicated to the Deputy his reasons. If Deputy Tadier wishes to share those reasons with Members, then the Bailiff 's reasons underpinning his disallowing the questions will then be apparent.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Just clarification though, his refusal has to be in accordance with Standing Orders, does it not? The Deputy Bailiff :

The Bailiff 's refusal is based upon his interpretation of Standing Orders. This is a matter of Standing Orders. It is not a matter of generalised discretion. The only basis on which questions are not allowed is if, in the opinion of the President, they do not accord with Standing Orders.

[9:45]

Deputy M. Tadier :

Sir, may I have a further point of order? One of the reasons given is that the resignations are a personal matter for the individual States Member and not an official matter of official responsibility. Given that only a few months ago there was controversy where a Minister in question wanted to give a statement that was on official responsibility and he was forced to give a personal statement, could this be something that is looked into? It seems that the disagreement both from the ministerial Benches as to whether

The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , that is not a matter that calls for a ruling from the Chair and, therefore, it is not a point of order. It is a matter that you can, of course, raise with P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedures Committee) if you believe Standing Orders need to be changed in that respect.

Deputy M. Tadier :

Can I raise the issue as a point, Sir, and say that I do not believe that the Standing Order is being interpreted correctly because I think resignations are a matter of public interest and the

The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , that is not a matter on which I can rule today. The Bailiff has ruled; he has given his reasons. If, as a result of that ruling, you believe that Standing Orders need to be changed to clarify the position differently, then it is open for you to raise that matter with the P.P.C. We then come on to Oral Questions and the first question is the one that Deputy Mézec will ask of the Minister for Social Security.

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier of the Minister for Social Security regarding the publication of a report on the potential impact of a significant rise in the minimum wage: [1(201)]

Following the adoption of paragraph (b) of P.150/2015 which requested the Minister to produce a report by December 2016 on the potential impact of a significant rise in the minimum wage, when will the report be published and why has there been a delay?

Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Social Security):

The Chief Minister explained in his response to a written question from Deputy Southern on 17th January 2017 that this work  is underway. Oxera  have  been commissioned to  undertake this complex piece of work and it is being overseen by the Economics Unit, among another of other priorities that are impacting upon that team. The December deadline was arbitrary; the short delay will have no impact on the minimum wage timetable because the report is now on course to be completed in time to feed into the forum's minimum wage review.

1. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

The first supplementary then is: do we have a date for when the report will, therefore, be published? The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , you will get your supplementary at the end. I have to invite other Members to ask questions.

Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

No, the process is I ask my first question and then I get a supplementary. The Deputy Bailiff :

I beg your pardon. Yes, I am sorry. Thank you.

Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

May I, therefore, then ask is when will this report come out, so that we can read it and interpret whether or not it gives a good guideline as to what progress can be made soon? Would the Minister like to comment on the fact that since this was agreed that we would have this report, not only are we in a situation where the U.K.'s (United Kingdom's) minimum wage is now higher than Jersey's, not only is Guernsey's now higher than Jersey's but, as of a few days ago, the Isle of Man have now voted to increase their minimum wage to be higher than Jersey's? Does the Minister consider that this is an incredibly pressing issue that the Island is embarrassing itself by falling behind on and should be taken much quicker than it looks like it has been taken previously?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

Gosh, a plethora of questions. Starting from the back going forward, I do not think the Island is embarrassed at all. The Assembly agreed the last minimum wage, which will come into effect on 1st April. In answer to the Deputy 's question, the report should be ready by the end of April, which will then feed into the Employment Forum's minimum wage review that will start at the beginning of May with a survey which will take 8 weeks.

2. Deputy A.D. Lewis of St. Helier :

I wonder if the Minister could advise as to what consultation she has been having with the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture because clearly a rise in the minimum wage will have an impact on the economy, both in a positive way and she may attain a negative way. Can she advise the Assembly as to what discussions have occurred with the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture and E.D.D. (Economic Development Department) because this is such an important matter, both socially and economically, and it is taking far too long to establish what I would consider a much higher minimum wage more akin with the living wage?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

Yes, I agree with the Deputy that it has taken a very long time but it is also very important and not something that can be rushed. The impact on commerce, on business, on hospitality, agriculture is huge, which is why it is taking this amount of time. The Employment Forum are directed by the Minister for Social Security in April as to what they independently will review in conjunction with the report that is coming out, in answer to Deputy Mézec 's question.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

It had previously been stated by the department that the minimum wage plus benefits equals the living wage. Does the Minister accept this definition and, if so, does she accept that it does not help people who, for whatever reason, cannot claim benefits?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

The living wage, to which the Deputy refers, is a moveable feast. The living wage in the U.K., we do not have one here, it is not statutory. There is a national living wage in the U.K. that is statutory, which is £7.20, which is only available to people over 25 and this Assembly directly said there would be no age discrimination in minimum wage.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

Could the Minister explain to Members why she calls the timescale adopted by this House to be arbitrary and of no importance?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

I certainly did not say it was of no importance. It was not a fixed deadline for December. As I have said before, the Economics Unit have huge amounts of work to undertake, including the distribution analysis of the personal tax contribution, which was published on Monday, with various other units, Statistics Unit's Business Tendency Survey. They have not been able to devote their time entirely to this and we are very grateful for the information that they have given and they will complete their report by the end of April, as I said.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Could I ask her to explain why she chose the word "arbitrary"? Deputy S.J. Pinel:

Purely because it was not a fixed definition of December.

6. Deputy A.D. Lewis :

Does the Minister not feel that, given the importance of this issue, there perhaps should be a fixed deadline to come forward with this information because it is of huge importance and it should have a fixed deadline? Does she not agree?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

At the risk of repetition, I have just said that the report will be produced by the end of April which will inform the Employment Forum, which is an independent body set up to review the minimum wage, and they will use that report to help them do their survey and come up with their consultation results.

7. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Perhaps the Minister is looking for praise for bringing a report to the House 4 months late. Deputy S.J. Pinel:

No.

8. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

But 2 corrections, first is that part (b) you did specify for the report to come out in December and the Minister said that there is no living wage in Jersey; that, of course, is not true. There is a branch of the Living Wage Foundation that has been set up in Jersey and says that the living wage is £9.75 an hour. I would like to ask the Minister then, given the developments that have been happening in the U.K. and the fact that the U.K. Government has set a deadline of 2020 to have their minimum wage reach £9 an hour, does the Minister not now consider that inaction is simply not an option and that Jersey should be looking to reassess its own timeline for increasing the minimum wage and readjust it, given the developments in the U.K., so that we can be looking to have a minimum wage perhaps even of around £10 an hour by 2022, that sort of figure? Is that the sort of thing she would be prepared to consider?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

I did not say there was no living wage in Jersey; I said it was not statutory. As regards direction to the Forum, then the Assembly agreed that we would attempt to reach a mean wage of 45 per cent by 2026. The instructions to the Forum will probably include, depending on what the report says, to bring that forward, in answer to the Deputy 's question. I hope that it will because it has been a very long time in the coming and I agree.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the impact on the transition to the new policy on delivery of personal care in the home of any failure by Family Nursing and Home Care and Health Care Assistants to reach agreement: [1(199)]

What is the Minister's assessment of whether the transition to the new policy on delivering personal care in the home will be put at risk by any failure to reach agreement on contractual terms of healthcare assistance between Family Nursing and Home Care management and the health care assistants affected by the end of March 2017?

Senator A.K.F. Green (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

As I have said on many occasions, Family Nursing and Home Care staffing arrangements are a matter for them. But, that said, I have every confidence that Family Nursing and Home Care will reach agreement with its staff and the organisation will be in a position to continue to offer home care services.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is the Minister aware that he will be employing a body, Family Nursing and Home Care, who have removed travel time that is essential for elements to their job required from remuneration schedules for these particular workers?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

I have said on many occasions I do not intend to involve myself in the terms and conditions of employment of organisations that work with us, so as long as they meet good employment practice and legal requirements.

2. Deputy M. Tadier :

That said, does the Minister accept that it is not good employment practice not to pay your staff who worked in a very crucial and critical area of care in our community to not pay them for travel time when they are on the job? It is one thing perhaps not to pay them to get to the job and get home but, as travel is an integral part of their job, presumably we do not apply the same rules to ambulance drivers and staff that are in the direct employ of the States. Would the Minister undertake to look at this matter seriously and rule that if you do not include travel time you are not a good employer and, therefore, you will not get the States contract?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

I have said on more than one occasion and I will say again, I do not intend to involve myself in the terms and conditions of employment for staff. The negotiations that are going on in Family Nursing are a matter for them and it should always be seen as a whole package, not just one item in isolation.

3. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

This Minister wants to absolve himself of any responsibility for the working conditions of people who work in the healthcare profession; that is just the Government that we have for the moment, but he cannot absolve himself of any responsibility for the people who benefit from the services that the care industry provides. Does this Minister not accept that by presiding over a situation where the working conditions of these people is being degraded to the level that it is, that he is going to see fewer qualified people who want to get involved in this profession, he is going to see morale hit rock bottom and, ultimately, it will be the patients who suffer from this? Given that that is a situation he is prepared to see happen, would he not consider changing his mind and taking a more active interest of the working terms and conditions of people who work in the care profession?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

The terms and conditions, as I have said, is a matter for Family Nursing. That said, there are now 20 providers of similar service in the Island, so I do not think that we can consider the service to be at risk.

4. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

Supplementary. Is the Minister, therefore, admitting that he is happy to see a race to the bottom and that the more service providers we have the lower the wages of these people will go, the worse their terms and conditions will be and that is just something we have to accept, that this noble profession, that people who look after the vulnerable people in our society, will simply have to prepare for being rewarded less and less for it and it will become a less attractive career to go into? Is that really what he wants his legacy to be?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

There is no race to the bottom and those people that provide services are now regulated and in fact the Chief Minister recently appointed a Commissioner for Care that will oversee standards throughout the care industry.

5. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

Is the Minister aware that not paying for travel time impinges on the time spent with the cared for and makes their treatment inferior and, therefore, the patients are suffering?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

I would ask that the Senator produce the evidence to support that.

6. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

With the greatest of pleasure, will the Minister listen to it when I produce it? Senator A.K.F. Green:

The Minister will pass any information that the Senator gives me on to Family Nursing and Home Care. I am sure that will help them in their negotiations.

7. Deputy J.A.N. Le Fondré of St. Lawrence :

The Minister said he does not take any responsibility for terms and conditions of the employees of Family Nursing, however, does he not take full responsibility for the provision of, I believe, a grant that we give to Family Nursing, which must be their largest source of funding? Therefore, surely if there is any impact on the services that Family Nursing provides to its patients, which is, therefore, then integral to the care in the community that is a lynchpin of health policy, surely he must take responsibility, at the very least, that the monitoring of the grant is properly used and is effective in providing the level of care that people are used to.

Senator A.K.F. Green:

The short answer to this is we have a service level agreement with Family Nursing and Home Care and I do not foresee that they will not be able to deliver that service. How they deliver the service is providing it to the standards agreed in the terms and conditions that we have agreed with them; how they deliver it is a matter for them.

8. Deputy M. Tadier :

The reality will be something like this, that a healthcare worker working for Family Nursing might see 6 patients a day and spend an hour with them, spend half an hour between each of the patients driving, which is not unreasonable.

[10:00]

Out of that 8 and a half hour day the individual only gets paid for 6 hours out of a 42 and a half hour week and that is probably a conservative estimate of the hours they do; they only get paid for 30 hours a week. How can this be conscionable for the Minister to accept and sign off this kind of agreement? Perhaps to ask rhetorically, if not openly, whether he would entrust his own family to the care of these individuals on such a low wage, not being paid with not enough for them to live off for the week.

Senator A.K.F. Green:

I do not know how many times I have to say it: the negotiations are a matter for Family Nursing and Home Care. They have not concluded those negotiations yet, so we do not know what the final outcome will be. I am not going to rise to the bait about my own family.

9. Deputy M. Tadier :

Supplementary. Although that may be the case, signing off the service level agreement and the terms and conditions is a matter for the Minister. He confirmed in his first answer today that good working practices do come under consideration that he can take into account. Can he put on record now that he will look at whether or not the whole package constitutes good working practices before he signs that off?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

We have already signed the contract. I have no intention of getting involved either in the negotiations with Family Nursing and Home Care or their staff, no intention at all.

10. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Does the Minister accept that by agreeing a figure with Family Nursing and Home Care at the present time he has got their arm behind their back and he is squeezing it because it has fixed a cap on what they can pay their employees because they have very little in the way of other sources of funding?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

The Member seems to have completely forgotten that we are fully funding Rapid Response, fully funding home care visits, fully funding childcare, the maternity visits. We are making a grant of over £6 million to Family Nursing; I think that is a very good commitment to care in the community.

11. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Supplementary. In terms of the family visits going out to people who are incapacitated and need assistance getting out of bed in the morning or being put to bed at night and maybe getting a cup of tea, does he still think that is sufficient?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

The Member seems to have muddled up what Family Nursing are doing; that side of the service is maintained as it is. The Member seems to have muddled up the cleaning part of the service with the care part of the service.

12. Deputy T.A. Vallois of St. John :

Could the Minister explain what would happen in terms of care provision should he decide to suspend the service level agreement until Family Nursing and Home Care decided to conclude the situation?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

Then we would have a very dire situation where Family Nursing will not be then providing the support for people in the community, the Family Nursing services, the support for mothers who have just given birth; that is something we cannot comprehend.

13. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Does the Minister accept that there may well be health and safety considerations attached to the terms and conditions under which these assistants are working? Does he not agree that what he is signing up to is a 2-tier level agreement because where he has a service level agreement on Rapid Response and Reablement they are paid and they continue to be paid for travel time, whereas people doing a similar job in people's homes, where travel is essential, will not be paid for that travel time?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

As I have said before, the negotiations are a matter for Family Nursing, providing that they are reached appropriately and complied with good practice and complied with the employment legislation.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

Point of clarification

The Deputy Bailiff :

No, that was a final supplementary, so

Deputy G.P. Southern : Sir, clarification, if I may. The Deputy Bailiff : Very well.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

The Minister did not address the first part of the question which was: does he consider that there may well be health and safety considerations attached to terms and conditions and, therefore, he ought to take a look at terms and conditions in order to verify that health and safety is not being endangered?

Senator A.K.F. Green:

Sir, it is true I did not answer that part of the question. I am happy to do so if you The Deputy Bailiff :

Yes.

Senator A.K.F. Green:

Yes. The health and safety is an important part of the terms and conditions and the work and risk assessments that Family Nursing carry out when looking at all working practices. I do not expect that this particular change in practice would be any different.

The Deputy Bailiff :

We now come to

Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is he happy with a 2-tier system of

The Deputy Bailiff :

No, that really was a final supplementary, Deputy .

Deputy G.P. Southern :

He has not addressed the second half of the question either, Sir.

3. Deputy M.R. Higgins of H.M. Attorney General regarding the bankruptcy provisions of Articles 8(3)(b) and 8(4)(b) of the States of Jersey Law 2005: [1(194)]

Will Her Majesty's Attorney General advise Members what the legitimate aim is of the bankruptcy provisions in the States of Jersey Law 2005? Does he consider that Articles 8(3)(b) and 8(4)(b) are proportionate to that aim and, if so, why?

Mr. R.J. McRae, H.M. Attorney General:

The provisions the Deputy refers to in Articles 8(3)(a) and 8(4)(b) have been extant since the law was passed in 1966, the first States of Jersey Law. As we know, Article 8(3)(b) disqualifies Senators and Deputies from election if they are bankrupt; bankruptcy is defined in the Interpretation Law but such disqualification will cease if a person pays his debts in full or before the conclusion of the bankruptcy proceedings and in any other case on expiry of 5 years from the date upon which the bankruptcy proceedings are concluded. The same applies under 8(4)(b) in relation to compositions or arrangements with creditors; the same requirement to pay debts in full or another case to wait for 5 years before being eligible to stand. But integral provisions, although subject to a rather longer list of disqualifications, apply to the office of Jurat, pursuant to Article 3 of the Royal Court Law 1948. This provision in respect of different public offices is well recognised in Jersey law. It is hard now to speculate as to the original reason for these provisions because there is no report or record of debate in respect of the 1948 law or the 1966 law now in existence.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Attorney, the time normally allowed for answers is one minute 30 seconds. You are now one minute and 50 seconds, I wonder if you can

The Attorney General:

Sir, I am only halfway through, I do apologise. [Laughter] Deputy M.R. Higgins:

It is an important issue, Sir, so hopefully you will allow more time. The Deputy Bailiff :

Perhaps you could continue for the time being but I will allow extra time for supplemental questions if need be.

The Attorney General:

I am grateful, Sir. The principle in relation to the rule regarding Senators and Deputes was presumably along the lines that it was thought wrong for people who were incapable of managing their own financial affairs, to the extent that they became insolvent, to be put in charge of other people's financial affairs unless they either paid off their creditors in the course of the bankruptcy or at least had the chance to prove that they could re-establish themselves in the following 5 years. Is that provision in Article 8(4) legitimate and proportionate for human rights purposes? In that regard I refer the Deputy to the lengthy written answer I have given today and, in short, for the reasons set out in that answer, it is a legitimate and proportionate purpose for the purposes of human rights legislation.

1. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

In fact just so it is absolutely clear to Members, the reason I raised this was from a proposition I brought a short while ago and I did not realise the Bankruptcy Law was as onerous as it is for States Members because the Attorney General advised us that any ordinary bankrupt has to have 5 years to pay off his debts and if he pays off his debts and he is cleared. But a States Member or someone who is thinking of applying for the States is barred for another 5 years on top of that.  In my research there is no other State that has a provision like that and, therefore, this is why my question was whether it was proportionate. I have read the answer to the Attorney General's question and I might say that I am

The Deputy Bailiff :

Deputy , this does have to be a question. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Okay, just a question. Okay, my question then is: what is the procedure for challenging this particular provision because I think it is about time we did challenge the Human Rights Law in the Island and the interpretation of it? Would there be assistance from the States in terms of a quality of arms, so it is on a point of law?

The Attorney General:

There was a misunderstanding in the question, the early part of the question. It was suggested there was some special rule for bankruptcy in relation to States Members; there is not. All persons in Jersey are subject to the same provisions in relation to bankruptcy and discharge. But the point is that a discharged bankrupt who failed to pay his debts during the course of bankruptcy is not eligible for election for the following 5 years. In terms of a challenge, of course it is possible for a person to mount a challenge to any legislation and invite the court to issue a declaration that legislation is incompatible with human rights legislation and then the matter could be looked at afresh by this Assembly. But, ultimately, it is a matter for this Assembly to determine whether or not it wishes to change these provisions.

Deputy M.R. Higgins:

Just the question of the quality of arms

The Deputy Bailiff :

I beg your pardon, Deputy Mézec , I did not see your light. Deputy Mézec .

2. Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

That is okay, I did put it in on late. The question I would like to ask is: what are the legal consequences of the Articles in the States of Jersey Law that make bankruptcy something that inhibits

The Deputy Bailiff :

Sorry, I beg your pardon, Deputy . Deputy Labey , I think in leaving you are leaving us inquorate, so if you would come back until please do continue, Deputy .

Deputy S.Y. Mézec :

I just wanted to ask, what are the legal implications of the Articles in the States of Jersey Law that prohibit somebody from becoming a Senator or Deputy if they are bankrupt? Is it those clauses just being removed? Are there any unintended consequences of doing that or would the only consequence of that simply be that people who are bankrupt would be able to become Senators and Deputies?

The Attorney General:

Yes, if the provisions were removed then persons who are bankrupt would be capable of standing as Deputy or Senator.

3. Deputy M.R. Higgins:

I would like to draw all Members' attention to the fact that it does not apply to the Constables and, therefore, it is discriminatory in human rights terms as well. Could the Attorney General advise whether funds would be available from the States on this because, as we all know, bringing a court action in Jersey is impossible for an individual unless he has very deep pockets? It is an important issue regarding this Assembly.

The Attorney General:

A person challenging these provisions may or may not be entitled to legal aid, otherwise they would be unrepresented and they would look to the Court to assist them in the course of any proceedings.

4. Deputy J.A.HiltonofSt.HelieroftheChiefMinister regarding the prospective holding of a debate by the States Assembly following the publication of the report of the Independent Jersey Care Inquiry: [1(196)]