States Meeting Transcript - 11th September 2018

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT

TUESDAY, 11th SEPTEMBER 2018

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ...................................... 10 The Deputy Bailiff :............................................................................... 10

1. Welcome to His Excellency The Lieutenant Governor .................................. 10
2. Welcome to visiting delegation – Trinidad and Tobago .................................. 10
3. Welcome to visiting delegation – Association of Civic Heads, United Kingdom........ 10
4. Announcement of presentation of R.118/2018 ........................................... 10

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS .......................... 10

2. Nomination of 3 persons as members of the Public Accounts Committee who are not Members of the States ..................................................................... 10

1. Senator S.C. Ferguson (Chairman, Public Accounts Committee): ....................... 10

2. Appointment of the Bailiff 's Consultative Panel ........................................ 11

QUESTIONS ........................................................................................ 12

3. Written Questions .......................................................................... 12

1. DEPUTY R.J. WARD OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING CONTRACTS IN THE EDUCATION SECTOR WITH EXTERNALLY EMPLOYED AND SELF-EMPLOYED PEOPLE: [WQ.128/2018] .................... 12
2. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING POLITICAL OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMUNICATIONS UNIT: [WQ.129/2018] ................ 17
3. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING HER DEPARTMENT'S INVOLVEMENT WITH CHRISTMAS PAYMENTS MADE TO THE ELDERLY BY A WELL-KNOWN LOCAL BENFACTOR: [WQ.130/2018] .......................................................... 18
4. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING REGISTRATION CARDS ISSUED TO PEOPLE WITH REGISTERED STATUS: [WQ.131/2018] ........................................................................... 18
5. DEPUTY S.M. AHIER OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE CLAIMANTS OF THE FOOD COSTS BONUS AND COLD WEATHER BONUS: [WQ.132/2018] ........................................... 19
6. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING PROPERTIES WHICH ARE NOT CONNECTED TO THE MAIN SEWERAGE SYSTEM: [WQ.133/2018] ................................................ 20

7. DEPUTY S.M. AHIER OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING PEOPLE IN RECEIPT OF THE LEVEL 3 PERSONAL CARE COMPONENT OF INCOME SUPPORT: [WQ.134/2018] ...................... 21
8. DEPUTY K.G. PAMPLIN OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE JERSEY RECLAIM FUND: [WQ.133/2018]...................... 21
9. DEPUTY R.J. WARD OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE STATES EMPLOYMENT BOARD REGARDING THE PUBLIC SECTOR PAY AWARD FOR 2018: [WQ.136/2018] .................................................................... 21
10. DEPUTY R.J. WARD OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING THE ADJUSTMENTS TO TUITION FEE AWARDS IN RESPECT OF HIGHER CHILD ALLOWANCE: [WQ.137/2018] ..................................... 23
11. SENATOR S.Y. MÉZEC OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING THE INTRODUCTION OF ONLINE VOTING: [WQ.138/2018] ................................................................ 24
12. SENATOR S.Y. MÉZEC OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMITÉ DES CONNÉTABLES REGARDING A BREAKDOWN OF HONORARY POLICE OFFICERS BY PARISH AND BY AGE: [WQ.139/2018] .............................. 26
13. SENATOR S.Y. MÉZEC OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMITÉ DES CONNÉTABLES REGARDING THE RECENT ELECTIONS FOR PROCUREUR DU BIEN PUBLIC: [WQ.140/2018] ......................................................... 28
14. SENATOR S.C. FERGUSON OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING UNEMPLOYMENT STATISTICS: [WQ.141/2018] .................... 30
15. DEPUTY C.S. ALVES OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING INDIVIDUALS APPLYING FOR ENTITLED STATUS BEFORE COMPLETING 10 YEARS OF ORDINARY RESIDENCE IN JERSEY: [WQ.142/2018] ................. 31
16. DEPUTY C.S. ALVES OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING DIAGNOSES OF MESOTHELIOMA: [WQ.143/2018] ........................................................................... 33
17. DEPUTY C.S. ALVES OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING COMPLAINTS IN RESPECT OF AGGRESSIVE OR DANGEROUS DOGS: [WQ.144/2018] .................................................................. 34
18. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE RESCHEDULING OF CANNABIS UNDER MISUSE OF DRUGS LEGISLATION: [WQ.145/2018] ................................ 35
19. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE IMPACT OF CHANGES TO SOCIAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTION RATES: [WQ.146/2018] ............................................ 36
20. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING ENGAGEMENT WITH HOSPITAL STAFF IN RESPECT OF THE NEW HOSPITAL: [WQ.147/2018]................................ 38
21. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING POLICY IN RESPECT OF CIVIL SERVANTS FOUND TO HAVE LIED TO STATES MEMBERS OR THE PUBLIC: [WQ.148/2018] ........................................ 41
22. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING THE OUTSOURCING OF SERVICES BY THE DEPARTMENT: [WQ.149/2018] ........................................................ 41

4. Oral Questions ............................................................................. 42

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding Article 20 of the Dormant Bank Accounts (Jersey) Law 2017: [OQ.107/2018] .......................... 42

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): ............................................... 42

2. Deputy S.M. Wickenden of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding legacy issues he had dealt with since taking office: [OQ.106/2018] ....................................... 43

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): ............................................... 43 4.2.1 Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ................................................................. 43

3. Deputy K.F. Morel of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the supplier of janitorial; supplies to the States of Jersey: [OQ.111/2018] .......................... 43

Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ................ 43

1. Deputy K.F. Morel : ....................................................................... 44
2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier : ...................................................... 44
3. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :......................................................... 44
4. Senator S.C. Ferguson: ................................................................... 44
5. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John : ...................................................... 44
6. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier : ...................................................... 45
7. Deputy G. P. Southern : ................................................................... 45
8. Deputy K.F. Morel : ....................................................................... 45

4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the provision of public toilets in St. Helier : [OQ.120/2018] ............................. 45

Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour (The Minister for Infrastructure): .......................... 45

1. The Connétable of St. Helier : ............................................................ 46
2. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 46
3. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 46
4. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 46
5. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 47
6. Deputy R.J. Rondel of St. Helier : ........................................................ 47
7. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin : .......................................................... 47
8. The Connétable of St. Helier : ............................................................ 47

5. Deputy S.M. Ahier of St. Helier of the Minister for Social Security regarding recipients of the Food Costs Bonus and Cold Weather Bonus: [OQ.115/2018] ........ 48

Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier (The Minister for Social Security): .......................... 48 4.5.1 Deputy S.M. Ahier : ....................................................................... 48

6. Deputy M. Tadier of H.M. Attorney General regarding the legality of Jersey residents travelling to Switzerland to end their life: [OQ.125/2018].............................. 48

Mr. R.J. MacRae , H.M. Attorney General: ..................................................... 48

1. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 49
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 49
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 49
4. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 50

7. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary of the Minister for the Environment regarding the catching of crawfish in Jersey waters: [OQ.116/2018] .................................. 50

Deputy G.C. Guida of St. Lawrence (Assistant Minister for the Environment - rapporteur): .. 50

1. Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ................................................................. 50
2. Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ................................................................. 50
3. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 51

8. Deputy R.J. Rondel of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding parking for motorbikes and bicycles in St. Helier : [OQ.110/2018] .................................. 51

Deputy K.C. Lewis (The Minister for Infrastructure): .......................................... 51

1. Deputy R.J. Rondel: ...................................................................... 51
2. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour : .................................................. 51
3. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : .................................................................. 52
4. Deputy K.F. Morel : ....................................................................... 52
5. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 52
6. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 52
7. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 53
8. Deputy R.J. Rondel: ...................................................................... 53

9. Deputy J.H. Young of the Chairman of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the tabling of written questions by elected members who held ministerial office: [OQ.114/2018]...................................................................... 53

Deputy R. Labey (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): ......................... 53

1. Deputy J.H. Young: ...................................................................... 54
2. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 54
3. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 54
4. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 55
5. The Connétable of St. Lawrence :......................................................... 55
6. The Connétable of St. Lawrence :......................................................... 55
7. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade : ................................................ 56
8. Senator S.Y. Mézec : ...................................................................... 56
9. Deputy J.H. Young: ...................................................................... 56

10. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding allocations in the Medium Term Financial Plan for public sector pay awards: [OQ.113/2018] .............................................................................. 56

Deputy S.J. Pinel (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):................................. 56

1. Deputy R.J. Ward : ..................................................................... 57
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 57
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 57
4. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 57
5. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 58
6. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 58
7. Deputy R.J. Ward : ..................................................................... 58

11. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of the Minister for Social Security regarding the introduction of breastfeeding rights: [OQ.108/2018] .................................................. 58

Deputy J.A. Martin (The Minister for Social Security): ........................................ 59

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : .............................................................. 59
2. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 59
3. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : .............................................................. 59

12. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Chief Minister regarding the availability of statistics in Jersey with regard to healthy diets: [OQ.117/2018] ..................................... 60

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): ............................................... 60

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 60
2. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 60

3. Deputy R.J. Ward : ..................................................................... 60
4. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 61

13. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the provision of information relating to the Future Hospital to Ministers, the States and the public: [OQ.118/2018] ................................................................. 61

Deputy R.J. Renouf of St. Ouen (The Minister for Health and Social Services): .............. 61

1. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ................................................................. 61
2. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 62
3. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 62
4. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ................................................................. 62

14. Deputy K.F. Morel of the Minister for Children and Housing regarding the rent policy of Andium Homes: [OQ.112/2018]................................................ 63

Senator S.Y. Mézec (The Minister for Children and Housing): ................................ 63

1. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 63
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 63
3. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 63
4. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 64

15. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of the Minister for Children and Housing regarding the decision of Andium Homes not to sign up to the landlords' accreditation scheme: [OQ.123/2018] .............................................................................. 64

Senator S.Y. Mézec (The Minister for Children and Housing): ................................ 64

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: ................................................................. 65
2. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 65
3. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: ................................................................. 65

16. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Chief Minister regarding the impact of income inequality: [OQ.121/2018]. ................................................................ 66

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): ............................................... 66

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 66
2. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ................................................................. 66
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 66

17. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding measures to allow for married women to manage their own tax affairs: [OQ.109/2018] 67

Deputy S.J. Pinel (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):................................. 67

1. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : .............................................................. 67
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 67
3. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 68
4. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 68
5. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 68
6. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : .............................................................. 68

18. Deputy M.R. Higgins of the Chief Minister regarding the application of policy to instances where officers were found to have lied or covered up failures: [OQ.119/2018] .............................................................................. 69

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): ............................................... 69 4.18.1 Deputy M.R. Higgins: ................................................................. 69

19. Deputy M. Tadier of the Minister for Children and Housing regarding the policy of Andium Homes that rents stand at 90 per cent of the market rate: [OQ.124/2018] .. 69

Senator S.Y. Mézec (The Minister for Children and Housing): ................................ 69

1. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 70
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 70
3. Deputy R.J. Ward : ..................................................................... 70
4. The Deputy of St. Martin : ............................................................. 71
5. Connétable S.A. Le Sueur -Rennard of St. Saviour : ................................... 71
6. Deputy R.J. Rondel: ................................................................... 71
7. Deputy R.E. Huelin of St. Peter : ...................................................... 71
8. Deputy G.P. Southern : ................................................................ 72
9. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 72

20. The Connétable of St. Helier of the Minister for the Environment regarding implementation of the Future St. Helier initiative: [OQ.122/2018] .................... 73

Deputy J.H. Young (The Minister for the Environment): ...................................... 73

1. Deputy R. Labey : ...................................................................... 73
2. Deputy R.J. Ward : ..................................................................... 73
3. Deputy R. Labey : ...................................................................... 74

5. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture .............................................................. 74

1. The Connétable of St. Helier : ............................................................ 74 Senator L.J. Farnham (The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture): ............................................................................................ 75
2. Deputy S.M. Ahier : ....................................................................... 75
3. Deputy K.F. Morel : ....................................................................... 75
4. Deputy R.J. Rondel: ...................................................................... 75
5. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................... 76

5.5.1 Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................... 76

6. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 76
7. Senator S.C. Ferguson: ................................................................... 77
8. Deputy R.J. Ward :........................................................................ 78
9. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : .................................................................. 78

6. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Chief Minister ............................ 78

1. Senator S.C. Ferguson: ................................................................... 79 Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): ............................................... 79
2. The Deputy of St. Peter :.................................................................. 79
3. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 79
4. Deputy S.M. Ahier : ....................................................................... 80
5. The Connétable of St. Helier : ............................................................ 80
6. Deputy K.F. Morel : ....................................................................... 81
7. Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ................................................................. 81
8. Deputy R.J. Ward :........................................................................ 82
9. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 82

STATEMENT ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY .......................... 82

7. Statement by the Minister for Children and Housing regarding the Ofsted inspection of Children's Services ...................................................................... 82

7.1 Senator S.Y. Mézec (The Minister for Children and Housing): .......................... 82

1. Deputy M.R. Higgins: .................................................................... 84
2. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................... 84
3. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 85
4. Deputy M. Tadier : ........................................................................ 85
5. Deputy R.J. Ward :........................................................................ 86
6. Senator K.L. Moore : ...................................................................... 86
7. The Connétable of St. Lawrence :......................................................... 86
8. Deputy K.F. Morel : ....................................................................... 87
9. Deputy R. Labey : ......................................................................... 88
10. The Deputy of St. Peter : ............................................................... 88
11. Deputy M. Tadier : ..................................................................... 89
12. Deputy R.J. Ward : ..................................................................... 90
13. Deputy R.J. Rondel: ................................................................... 90
14. The Connétable of St. Lawrence : ...................................................... 91

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED ................................................... 91 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT .................................................................. 91 COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ...................................... 91

8. The Deputy Bailiff : ....................................................................... 91

PUBLIC BUSINESS ................................................................................ 92

9. Draft Limited Liability Companies (Jersey) Law 201- (P.85/2018) .................... 92

1. Connétable R.A. Buchanan of St. Ouen (Assistant Chief Minister - rapporteur):........ 92

1. Deputy G.C. Guida: ...................................................................... 93
2. The Connétable of St. Ouen : .............................................................. 94

2. The Connétable of St. Ouen : .............................................................. 95
3. The Connétable of St. Ouen : .............................................................. 96

1. Deputy K.F. Morel : ....................................................................... 96
2. The Connétable of St. Helier : ............................................................ 96
3. The Connétable of St. Ouen : .............................................................. 96

10. Health and Safety Appeal Tribunal: reappointment of members (P.92/2018) ........ 97

10.1 Deputy J.A. Martin (The Minister for Social Security): .................................. 98

11. Draft Sea Fisheries (Minimum Size Limits) (Amendment No. 6) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.93/2018) ............................................................................ 98

1. Deputy G.C. Guida (Assistant Minister for the Environment - rapporteur): ............. 98

1. Deputy R. Labey : ...................................................................... 99
2. Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ............................................................ 100
3. Senator S.W. Pallett: ................................................................. 100
4. Deputy M. Tadier : .................................................................... 100
5. The Connétable of St. Brelade : ...................................................... 101
6. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................. 101
7. Deputy G.C. Guida: .................................................................. 101

2. Deputy G.C. Guida: ..................................................................... 103

12. Draft Sea Fisheries (Les Écréhous) (Jersey) Regulations 201- (P.94/2018)........... 104

1. Deputy J.H. Young (The Minister for the Environment): .............................. 104

1. The Deputy of St. Martin : ............................................................ 105

2. The Connétable of St. Brelade : ...................................................... 105
3. Deputy R. Labey : .................................................................... 105
4. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................. 106

2. Deputy J.H. Young: ..................................................................... 107

1. Deputy M. Tadier : .................................................................... 107
2. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................. 108

13. Draft Public Health and Safety (Rented Dwellings) (Jersey) Law 2018 (Appointed Day) Act 201- (P.95/2018) ................................................................ 108

13.1 Deputy J.H. Young (The Minister for the Environment): .............................. 111

1. Senator S.Y. Mézec : .................................................................. 113
2. The Deputy of St. Peter : .............................................................. 113
3. The Connétable of St. Ouen : ......................................................... 114
4. The Deputy of St. Mary : ............................................................. 114
5. Senator T.A. Vallois: ................................................................. 114
6. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................. 114
7. The Connétable of St. Brelade : ...................................................... 114
8. Deputy M. Tadier : .................................................................... 114
9. The Deputy of St. Martin : ............................................................ 116
10. Deputy R.J. Ward : ................................................................. 116
11. Deputy J.H. Young: ............................................................... 116

14. Draft Amendment (No. 36) of the Standing Orders of the States of Jersey (P.98/2018) ............................................................................................. 119

14.1 Deputy R. Labey (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): ................. 119

15. Entitled status on social and economic grounds: changes to legislation (P.99/2018) 119

15.1 Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour : .................................................... 120

1. The Connétable of St. John : .......................................................... 122
2. Deputy L.B.E. Ash of St. Clement : .................................................. 122
3. Deputy S.M. Wickenden: ............................................................ 124
4. Deputy M. Tadier : .................................................................... 125
5. Deputy J.A. Martin: .................................................................. 127
6. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: ................................................................ 128
7. Senator L.J. Farnham : ................................................................ 129 Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :....................................................................... 131 The Attorney General: ......................................................................... 131 Deputy J.H. Young: ............................................................................ 132
8. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................. 132
9. Deputy J.H. Young: .................................................................. 133
10. The Deputy of St. Peter : ........................................................... 134
11. Senator K.L. Moore : .............................................................. 134
12. Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré: ........................................................ 135
13. Deputy J.H. Perchard: ............................................................. 138

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS................... 144

16. Deputy R. Labey (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee): ................. 144

1. Deputy J.H. Young: ..................................................................... 144
2. Deputy M. Tadier : ....................................................................... 145

ADJOURNMENT ................................................................................. 145

[9:30]

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer. COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

The Deputy Bailiff :

1. Welcome to His Excellency The Lieutenant Governor

On behalf of Members I would like to welcome His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor to the Chamber this morning. [Approbation]

2. Welcome to visiting delegation – Trinidad and Tobago

Can I draw Members' attention that we have 2 visiting delegations up in the public gallery this morning? First, we have a delegation from Trinidad and Tobago, which includes Dr. Denise Tsoiafatt Angus, the Presiding Officer of the House of Assembly, Mr. Jomo Pitt, Member of the Legislature on the Executive Council and Secretary of Sport and Youth Affairs, and Mrs. Sharon Irvine-Combie, clerk to the Assembly. I ask Members to welcome them in the customary manner. [Approbation]

3. Welcome to visiting delegation – Association of Civic Heads, United Kingdom

Secondly, we have a delegation from the Association of Civic Heads, who are all former civic heads of different authorities within the Midlands of the United Kingdom, having served as either Lord Mayor, Mayor or Chairman of their city, town or area. Again, I ask Members to welcome them. [Approbation]

4. Announcement of presentation of R.118/2018

I should draw the attention of Members to the fact that the Bailiff has lodged the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Jersey) Law 2005 and Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law 2003: Report of the Investigatory Powers Commissioner from 1st January to 31st December 2017, R.118/2018.

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

2. Nomination of 3 persons as members of the Public Accounts Committee who are not Members of the States

The Deputy Bailiff :

We now come to F on the Order Paper, which is the Appointment of Ministers, Committees and Panels. Firstly, there is the appointment of unelected members of P.A.C. (Public Accounts Committee). There is a nomination by the chairman of the Public Accounts Committee for the appointment of unelected members to the committee. It is a requirement under Standing Order 124(1) that at least 14 days before the meeting, during which the unelected members are to be appointed, notice must be given to the Greffier of the intended nominees and the nominees must be distributed to Members. Those requirements have been met and, chairman, therefore I would ask you to make the nominations.

1. Senator S.C. Ferguson (Chairman, Public Accounts Committee):

We feel very thankful that such eminent members of our society are in fact prepared to take on the somewhat onerous duties on the Public Accounts Committee. We had a super selection to select from and in the end, after interviews in line with the Appointments Commission rules, we came up with these 3: Mrs. Mary Rose - commonly known as Moz - Scott . She is a tax specialist. She is experienced in structured finance and corporate law. She is a qualified solicitor in English and Jersey law, with experience in London and Jersey, and she was a partner in one of the leading local firms. We have Mr. Adrian Lane, who is a finance director with one of the banks, and he is obviously

approved by the Jersey Financial Services Commission. He is a fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants and holder of a Diploma in Company Direction. He is an executive on the local Audit Committee. He has a background in industrial and consumer market sectors, principally with businesses going through transformational change, which we think will probably be quite useful to us. The third one is Mr. Tim Rogers, who was formerly a project manager for the incorporation of Jersey Post, he was on the Treasury Steering Committee for Jersey Telecom, and responsible for the incorporation of Ports of Jersey. So we have somebody there who does have knowledge of how the States works, or does not work, however you care to put it. We are very fortunate that these 3 people, as I say, have offered their services. We are grateful to them and I have much pleasure in proposing them.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Is the proposition seconded? [Seconded]  Under Standing Order 124(2), nominations from any other Members might be considered but notice must have been given to the Greffier 2 clear days before. Consequently, as no notifications were received within that time, I declare that Mr. Tim Rogers, Ms. Mary-Rose Scott and Mr. Adrian Lane have been duly elected as members of the Public Accounts Committee. [Approbation]

2. Appointment of the Bailiff 's Consultative Panel The Deputy Bailiff :

Next, we come to membership of the Bailiff 's Consultative Panel, for which there is an explanatory note attached to the Consolidated Order Paper. There are 5 vacancies on the panel to be filled. The process is that nominations are made on the floor of the Chamber and each nomination must be seconded. If more than 5 Members are nominated there will be a secret ballot. The 5 Members who receive the largest number of votes will be elected to the panel. In the ballot each Member will be able to cast up to 5 votes. I therefore invite nominations for membership of the Bailiff 's Consultative Panel.

Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier :

Could I nominate Deputy Pamplin of St. Saviour ? The Deputy within weeks of being sworn into office was working with the Bailiff 's office, ultimately successfully, on the big screen for the World Cup and wishes to continue that relationship by seeking election to this committee.

Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence

I wish to nominate the Deputy of Grouville . I believe she served on the Consultative Panel under 3 Bailiff s and has the requisite experience and dynamism needed to serve.

The Deputy Bailiff :

I forgot to ask if the nomination of Deputy Pamplin was seconded. [Seconded] Thank you very much. Is the nomination for the Deputy of Grouville seconded? [Seconded]

[9:45]

Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence :

I am pleased to propose Senator Ferguson. She is a longstanding Member of the Assembly and would bring some common sense to the Bailiff 's Consultative Panel, not that there is not enough on there already.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Yes, thank you. Is the nomination seconded? [Seconded] Are there any other nominations? Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

I would like to nominate Senator Farnham , which I believe is required. I do not think he is a statutory member already.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Is that seconded? [Seconded] Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville :

I would like to nominate Deputy Martin of St. Helier . She served on the panel previously and her contributions are always very well received.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Is that nomination seconded? [Seconded] Are there any other nominations? That is 5 nominations. Accordingly we do not need to proceed to the ballot. I declare that Deputy Pamplin, the Deputy of Grouville , Senator Ferguson, Senator Farnham and Deputy Martin are duly elected to the Consultative Panel. [Approbation]

QUESTIONS

3. Written Questions

1. DEPUTY R.J. WARD OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REGARDING CONTRACTS IN THE EDUCATION SECTOR WITH EXTERNALLY EMPLOYED AND SELF-EMPLOYED PEOPLE: [WQ.128/2018]

Question

Will the Minister advise –

1. how much has been spent, for each year from 2014 to 2018 to date, on contracts with people who are either externally employed or self-employed and who have acted as advisers, professional partners or training specialists or who have undertaken school reviews (and subsequent implementation or support work) across all sectors of education on a consultant or non-consultant basis;
2. what budget provision has been made for such spending in 2018, 2019 and 2020; and
3. what is the breakdown of individual costs for each project, or anticipated project, across this expenditure or budgeted expenditure?

Answer

1. The table below shows the amount spent each year by the department on either externally employed or self-employed people who have acted as advisers, professional partners, training specialists or who have undertaken school reviews across all sectors of education on a consultant or non-consultant basis:

The figures that have been provided include only departmental spend and do not include any amounts spent from an individual school or college budget for the employment of external or self-employed people for the purposes outlined in this questions, for example the delivery of training.

Figures include fees, travel costs and other expenses.

2. The following budgets were set for 2018 for the delivery areas identified in question a).

Budgets have yet to be finalised for 2019 and funding has not been allocated to the department for 2020.

3. The costs identified in question a) have been split into their relevant project / area in the table below:

2. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING POLITICAL OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMUNICATIONS UNIT: [WQ.129/2018]

Question

Will the Chief Minister explain how political oversight of the Communications Unit is exercised; which Ministers are responsible for exercising such oversight; and whether Ministers are able to amend the content before communications are released to the public?

Answer

As Chief Minister, I am politically accountable for the communication directorate, and will be delegating to the Assistant Chief Minister, Connétable Richard Buchanan, the day-to-day discharging of these responsibilities.

In doing this, Connétable Buchanan will have regular liaison with the Communications Directorate, and oversee the communications strategy. This is in line with the newly-issued Codes of Conduct and Practice for Ministers and Assistant Ministers, which continues to place obligations on Ministers and Assistant Ministers around announcements, including making important announcements in the Assembly wherever possible, consulting with colleagues, and informing the Chief Minister of announcements in advance. This includes being able to amend the content of ministerial communications, although communication which does not involve Ministers or Assistant Ministers directly, and which relates to the States of Jersey administration only, will be approved by the relevant senior official responsible for the issue.

3. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING HER DEPARTMENT'S INVOLVEMENT WITH CHRISTMAS PAYMENTS MADE TO THE ELDERLY BY A WELL-KNOWN LOCAL BENFACTOR: [WQ.130/2018]

Question

Further to reports that the criteria for Christmas payments to the elderly made by a well-known local benefactor are to be changed, will the Minister explain what plans, if any, there are for her Department to work with the benefactor in respect of the amended scheme and, in particular, will she advise –

1. whether it is planned that the Department will assist in identifying who is in receipt of Income Support and, if so, whether the permission of such recipients will be sought before the relevant information is made available to the benefactor; and
2. whether it is planned that the Department will take over administration of the distribution of the payments and, if so, whether distribution will continue to take place at Parish Hall s?

Answer

I can confirm that officers from the Department are currently in discussions with the Sir David Kirch Charitable Trust regarding changes to Sir David's generous gifts to elderly islanders. These discussions are in relation to finalising operational details and their plans for distribution, which the Trust will communicate once they have concluded arrangements. I can confirm that there are no plans to transfer any customer data to the Trust.

4. THE DEPUTY OF ST. JOHN OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING REGISTRATION CARDS ISSUED TO PEOPLE WITH REGISTERED STATUS: [WQ.131/2018]

Question

How many registration cards for Registered status have been issued this year; and how many job vacancies accessible by people with Registered status have been available during this period?

Answer

The below table shows the total number of newly registered individuals who have obtained registration cards under the Control of Housing and Work Law (2012) since 1 January 2018. Figures do not include individuals who are Jersey born or individuals under the age of 18 who are already resident but newly registering. Figures also only account for individuals who have been issued with a registration card.

For the avoidance of doubt, these figures do not include individuals leaving Jersey, only new registrations.

Since 1 January 2018, there have been 4,227 vacancies advertised on the gov.je Jobs in Jersey page and Back to Work notice boards, of which 1,451 (34%) were advertised as being available to people with Registered status.

As at 30 June 2018, there were 10,241 total Registered permissions held by businesses. It is not possible to report how many vacancies may have been advertised through other channels since 1 January 2018.

5. DEPUTY S.M.  AHIER  OF  ST.  HELIER  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE CLAIMANTS OF THE FOOD COSTS BONUS AND COLD WEATHER BONUS: [WQ.132/2018]

Question

Will the Minister inform the Assembly of the total number of people who are claiming –

1. the Food Costs Bonus;
2. the Cold Weather Bonus;
3. both the Food Costs Bonus and the Cold Weather Bonus;

and will she further advise how many of these claims are from people with a disability? Answer

Food Costs Bonus  1130  62 Cold Weather Bonus  1009  28 Food  Costs  Bonus  &  Cold  1009  28

Weather Bonus

The Food Costs Bonus and the Cold Weather Bonus are paid to lower income households who do not qualify for Income Support. The Cold weather Bonus is only available to people above pension age.

Disability benefits are paid under the Income Support scheme and are also provided to working age people through the Social Security Scheme (LTIA and INV Benefit).

The Department only holds records of disability associated with benefit claims and therefore only a small number of individuals are identified by cross matching benefits. The cross matches noted above relate to working age people claiming Food Costs Bonus and households that includes a pensioner and a working age person.

It is not possible to determine from benefit records the total number of people above pension age receiving these benefits who have a disability.

6. THE DEPUTY  OF ST. JOHN  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING  PROPERTIES  WHICH  ARE  NOT  CONNECTED  TO  THE  MAIN SEWERAGE SYSTEM: [WQ.133/2018]

Question

Given that, in 2013, it was estimated that some 9% of properties (all in the country Parishes) were not connected to mains drains, will the Minister state what percentage of properties now fall in that category; and will he explain what plans, if any, there are to connect such properties to the main sewage system?

Answer

We currently have approximately 87% of the Island's resident population connected to the foul sewer system leaving some 13% unconnected using tight tanks/soakaways or package treatment plants. Our aspiration is to increase the 87% connected to 90%. Unfortunately it will not be viable to connect all properties as the cost for very remote properties is extremely high.

Our priority has been building the new sewage treatment facilities at Bellozanne which will be completed in 2022. Our resources have been diverted into delivering this project. Equally important is maintaining our current infrastructure. We are undertaking a series of network refurbishments to prevent surface and ground water infiltration and free up capacity in the network.

We  completely  support  and  would  like  to  carry  out  extensions  to  the  network,  however, understandably, we must ensure we do not overload our existing infrastructure. We are reliant on the availability of additional resources. Realistically we can only start to request these for 2020 onwards. However, we do have to ensure there will be both treatment and network capacity to allow the network to be extended.

The waste water strategy which I took to the States for approval in 2014 gives details of how our network is to be extended and also gained States approval for funding in order to construct new sewage treatment facilities.

7. DEPUTY S.M. AHIER OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING PEOPLE IN RECEIPT OF THE LEVEL 3 PERSONAL CARE COMPONENT OF INCOME SUPPORT: [WQ.134/2018]

Question

Will the Minister inform the Assembly of the total number of people with disabilities who are currently in receipt of the Level 3 personal care component of Income Support?

Answer

As at 4 September 2018, there were 261 individuals allocated a level 3 personal care component as part of a valid Income Support claim.

8. DEPUTY K.G. PAMPLIN OF ST. SAVIOUR OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING THE JERSEY RECLAIM FUND: [WQ.133/2018]

Question  

Will the Minister provide the latest figures for money currently held within, and so far claimed from, the Jersey Reclaim Fund, including any use of the Fund for the recovery of expenses in accordance with Article 27 of the Dormant Bank Accounts (Jersey) Law 2017?

Answer

Within the interpretation provisions of the Dormant Bank Accounts (Jersey) Law 2017 the Minister is defined as the Chief Minister, rather than the Minister for Treasury and Resources.

As at 31 August 2018, the sum of £4,876,650.53 was held in the Jersey Reclaim Fund. No claims for the return of moneys have been received from any bank since the inception of the Fund.

As at 31 August 2018, the only sum in respect of expenses deducted from the Fund is the sum of £1,316 in respect of investment management and bank charges.

9. DEPUTY R.J. WARD OF ST. HELIER OF  THE CHAIRMAN OF THE STATES EMPLOYMENT BOARD REGARDING THE PUBLIC SECTOR PAY AWARD FOR 2018: [WQ.136/2018]

Question

Given the latest published Retail Price s Index (RPI) figure for 2018 is 4.5%, will the Chairman provide –

1. the percentage, and precise number, of States workers offered a pay award for 2018 below RPI, including the non-consolidated element of the pay award;
2. the percentage, and precise number, of States workers offered a pay award for 2018 below RPI, excluding the non-consolidated element of the pay award;
3. a breakdown of the pay awards offered to each group of workers (as shown in the media release of 10th August 2018) by the percentage of States workers and the actual numbers of workers included within each pay award percentage band (e.g. 2% to 3%); and
4. the proportions and numbers for parts (a) and (b) for 2019 on the basis that RPI remains at 4.5%?

Answer

1. 5,797 States workers (86.1 %,) have been offered a pay award for 2018 below June 2018 RPI of 4.5%, including the non-consolidated element.
2. 5,797 States workers (86.1%) have been offered a pay award for 2018 below June 2018 RPI of 4.5%, excluding the non-consolidated element of the pay award.
3. The breakdown of the pay awards offered to each group of workers (as shown in the media release of 10th August 2018) by the percentage of States workers and the actual numbers of workers included within each pay award percentage band is presented below:

2018 and

2018 2019 Total

2019

Non- Non-

Consolidated Consolidated

consolidated  consolidated  Total Headcount % of Workforce

% %

% %

Ambulance Service, Family Support Workers, Residential Child Care Officers, Youth Service (the four groups that accepted the workforce modernisation offer)

6.88 - 3.84 - 10.72

159 2.4% average average average

Manual and Energy from Waste workers

4.6 - 3.3 - 7.9 795 11.8% Doctors

3 - 4 0 7 127 1.9%

4. Pay offers are usually informed by the previous year's September RPI as part of the annual pay review process. The 2018/2019 pay offers were informed by the September 2017 RPI of 3.1% for 2018 and the Fiscal Policy Panel economic assumptions for a 2019 RPI of 3.0%. On the basis that RPI remains at 4.5% in 2019, 6,101 States workers (90.7%) have been offered a pay award for 2019 which is below this figure, both when including and excluding the non-consolidated element of the pay awards.

10. DEPUTY R.J.  WARD  OF  ST.  HELIER  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  EDUCATION REGARDING THE ADJUSTMENTS TO TUITION FEE AWARDS IN RESPECT OF HIGHER CHILD ALLOWANCE: [WQ.137/2018]

Question

Will the Minister advise –

1. how many families with students currently in their second or third year of university will see their tuition fee award for the 2018-2019 academic year reduced to reflect the value of the tax relief received through the Higher Child Allowance (HCA);
2. what the cost would be of not making these reductions; and
3. what plans, if any, there are to address the issue of HCA adjustments for tuition fee awards in the 2019-2020 academic year?

Answer

The department is still processing applications for student finance for the 2018/19 academic year and, therefore, the figures are changing on a daily basis. There are in the region of 170 applications still to be processed, however the following details can be provided in relation to applications processed to date:

1. We are aware of 581 families to date which have had their tuition fee award for the 2018/19 academic year reduced to reflect the value of the tax relief received through HCA claimed for the 2017 year of assessment.
2. The cost of not making this adjustment for the applications processed to date would be £1.15m.
3. The adjustment for theHCA is part of the approved proposition, and therefore we would need to continue to apply this adjustment for the 2019 – 2020 academic year by reference to the benefit of HCA received in the 2018 year of assessment income tax liability. However, the department is taking steps to ensure that there is further publicity of the reduction in the fee award for the HCA adjustment.

11. SENATOR S.Y. MÉZEC OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE PRIVILEGES AND PROCEDURES COMMITTEE REGARDING THE INTRODUCTION OF ONLINE VOTING: [WQ.138/2018]

Question

Following the adoption by the States of Public Elections: electronic voting' (P.10/2016) and the agreement to introduce online voting, will the Chairman advise what progress has been made towards the introduction of online voting for the 2022 election and what the timetable is for having a fully secure system tested and in place?

Answer

On 22nd March 2016 the Assembly agreed:

to request the Privileges and Procedures Committee (PPC), in conjunction with the Comité des Connétable s, and other government bodies as appropriate, to research and trial electronic voting systems in order to introduce –

1. methods for electronic voter registration; and
2. safe and secure mechanisms to enable eligible voters, who wish to do so, to vote electronically, as soon as practicable;
3. and to report progress to the States annually.

PPC subsequently lodged a draft Law to permit electronic voting to be introduced for elections and referenda by Regulations, which was adopted by the Assembly in July 2016.

PPC published consultancy work on the practicalities of introducing automatic electoral registration, based on data already held by the States, in December 2016.

PPC's 3-year strategy for engaging the public with Jersey's democracy, presented in January 2017, said that:

In relation to public elections, we will ensure that people can register to vote using an online form from autumn 2017, and we will continue work on introducing automatic electoral registration with a view to the new system being implemented in 2018–2019. We will also develop proposals for the introduction of online voting for further discussion by the Assembly by 2020.

Regulations to permit people to register to vote by means of an online form were lodged by PPC in January 2018 and adopted by the Assembly in February 2018. These Regulations permitted online registration in time for the May 2018, although the electoral registration system remains in all other respects paper-based. As the report accompanying the Regulations made clear, online registration is an interim step ahead of the introduction of automatic electoral registration. The States Greffe's business plan, presented in March 2018, said:

We will work with the Comité des Connétable s to introduce an online method of registering to vote which we will encourage people to use in the run-up to the election. We will continue to work with the Comité and the e-gov programme on the introduction of automatic electoral registration.

On 24th August 2018 I wrote to the Chief Minister on the subject of electronic voting alerting him to the following:

That a PPC Sub-Committee is busy preparing a response to the CPA Electoral Observers' Mission report; and

That to be Venice compliant it's imperative this work is completed in two years, so that changes to the relevant legislation can pass through the Assembly in advance of the recommended cut-off period, 12 months prior to an election.

The letter drew the Chief Minister's attention to the following,

Recommendation 5. The States of Jersey should undertake a review of its voter registration system and among other explore the feasibility of a transfer to a digitalized system – if possible linked to a public register of personal records – allowing Island-wide cross-checks for multiple registration and to perform controls of voters' eligibility criteria (residency requirements), and to allow voters in a sufficiently secure manner to check online if they are registered to vote.

Recommendation 6. Efforts to encourage the Island's eligible population to register to vote and to take part in elections should continue, including by outreach to ethnic minority communities in their preferred languages. If a review of the voter registration system is undertaken, it should assess if active voter registration and the complex voting system (see under Election Day) act as barriers to greater political participation and representation.

I explained that these two recommendations are linked to the introduction of the People Directory' which I understood to be going live this year but which has yet to reach fruition and that this is an integral part of the electoral system as a centralised digital register would remove several layers of complexity from the existing process and allow voting to take place in a wider range of public venues.

I stated that if it is unlikely that we can rely on a robust electronic registration system being in place for 2022, we will need to consider alternative amendments to the existing Law in order to facilitate easier access to the registration and voting process.

The Chief Minister was asked to provide PPC with a progress report and advise what realistic prospect there is of the People Directory being in place within the next two years.

It was also suggested that a contact for future reference might be helpful, i.e. if someone other than the Chief Minister is taking responsibility for digital delivery.

The introduction of automatic electoral registration is dependent on the successful launch of the People Directory and associated legislative change, which are the responsibility of the e-gov programme. In addition, changes will be required to the Public Elections Law, which PPC stands ready to bring forward. Assuming that the People Directory is successfully launched during 2018 or 2019 it should be possible to introduce automatic electoral registration fully in time for the 2022 election which, I personally believe must not be a repeat of an unreformed 2018 election.

The States Greffe has undertaken some research on experience with online voting in a number of other jurisdictions. However, the introduction of online voting can only be considered when electoral registers are available electronically and there is a secure method for authenticating the identity of voters. The Committee will also need to consider the desirability of introducing online voting given experience elsewhere and the absolute priority which must be given to maintaining the integrity of the electoral system. Given these factors, is online voting a realistic prospect for the 2022 election? Questionable. Is electronic registration achievable by 2022? A must.

Until PPC is in receipt of a response from the Chief Minister the questioner is better placed than I to assess whether the requisite political will exists in the Council of Ministers to drive through, with energy and momentum, delivery of the People Directory, which represents the first essential step in improved voter engagement.

12. SENATOR S.Y. MÉZEC OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMITÉ DES CONNÉTABLES REGARDING A BREAKDOWN OF HONORARY POLICE OFFICERS BY PARISH AND BY AGE: [WQ.139/2018]

Question

Will the Chairman publish the number of people currently serving as honorary police officers, broken down by Parish and the following age brackets?

20-29

30-39

40-49

50-59

60-69 Answer

* To be nominated for election as a member of the Honorary Police a person must, on the day of nomination, be at least 20 years of age and less than 70 years of age.

However, serving members of the Honorary Police who have attained the age of 70 may stand for re- election to the same office for one further and final term. Whilst still in office they may also stand for election to a different office within the Honorary Police. A person over the age of 70 elected to a different office cannot on the expiry of that term office be re-elected to serve a further term or whilst still in office be elected to a different office.

The age band of 60-69 has therefore been amended to 60+ to include members of the Honorary Police who have been elected in accordance with the above provisions.

13. SENATOR S.Y. MÉZEC OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMITÉ DES CONNÉTABLES REGARDING THE RECENT ELECTIONS FOR PROCUREUR DU BIEN PUBLIC: [WQ.140/2018]

Question

Further to this year's elections to the office of Procureur du Bien Public, will the Chairman advise –

1. how these elections were promoted by the Parishes in advance of the nomination meetings, beyond any statutorily required notice in the Jersey Gazette;

2. what the results of these nomination meetings were;

3. before this question was submitted, what notifications, if any, were published by the Parishes to announce the results of these nomination meetings; and

4. what plans, if any, does the Comité have to improve public engagement with elections for Procureur?

Answer

There are two Procureurs du Bien Public in each Parish; each serves a 3-year term of office and one is elected every 18 months.

The Procureur du Bien Public acts as a public trustee and is elected at a public election. They maintain an oversight of Parish finances and –

• have a duty to represent the Parish in the care of Parish property;
• have a duty to report to the Principals and Officers of the Parish any matter concerning the public property of the Parish, or the application of the income of the Parish, about which the principals and officers should be made aware;
• must carry out duly considered instructions of the Parish Assembly or officers even if they disagree with their wisdom and
• may seek guidance of the Royal Court on the meaning or legality of any such instructions.

The Procureur du Bien Public must swear an oath of office in the Royal Court. The oath, set out below, is contained in the Code of 1771 and is also shown in translation

SERMENT DES PROCUREURS DE PAROISSE

VOUS jurez et promettez par la foi et serment que vous devez à Dieu, que vous exercerez la charge de Procureur du bien public de la Paroisse de.....................; que vous le conserverez et augmenterez comme le votre, et mieux s'il vous est possible; que vous vous réglerez par le bon conseil et avis des Principaux et Officiers, et des Chefs de Famille de ladite Paroisse; et ferez généralement tous autres devoirs qui dépendent de ladite charge.

OATH OF THE PARISH PROCUREURS

YOU swear and promise by the faith and oath that you owe to God, that you will discharge the office of Procureur du bien public of the Parish of ................; that you will conserve and augment the property of the Parish as you would your own, and more so if you are able; that you will in the execution of your duties take heed of the advice and counsel of the Principals and Officers, and Chefs de Famille of the said Parish; and that you will generally discharge all other duties appertaining to the said office.

In answer to the specific questions –

1. The parishes use a range of methods to promote nomination meeting dates. These include –

• Church box notice
• Parish website
• Parish Hall notice boards or notice box either within or outside the Parish Hall /Town Hall
• Social media where available e.g. St Helier Facebook page and Twitter; Jersey Gazette online notices are also fed to Twitter
• Screen at Charing Cross, St Helier – abbreviated version of St Helier nomination meeting notice
• Notice in Jersey Evening Post (as a public notice'; the Jersey Gazette is now online)
• Email to  those who have requested notification of parish meetings. Some parishes maintain a list for this purpose; in addition the Jersey Gazette is now online and islanders may request email notification of Parish notices

2. A person was proposed for election as Procureur du Bien Public at every nomination meeting; the results will be reported to the Royal Court, in accordance with the Court order for the elections, when those elected will take the oath of office (14 September 2018). Those elected or re-elected are as follows:

3. The result of the nomination meetings were announced at the conclusion of each meeting. A Jersey Evening Post reporter telephoned one parish and was informed of the result. The St Helier result is also on the Parish of St Helier website. Because of the timing of the issue of Parish magazines, the results will be included in future editions.
4. The Comité will be considering policy issues at forthcoming meetings, including publicity for parish elections generally, to improve public engagement.

14. SENATOR S.C.  FERGUSON  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  SOCIAL  SECURITY REGARDING UNEMPLOYMENT STATISTICS: [WQ.141/2018]

Question

Will the Minister advise –

1. how many people are currently on the Back to Work scheme;
2. how many people are currently listed as actively seeking work;
3. how these two sets of figures reconcile with unemployment figures published by Statistics Jersey; and
4. whether it is possible for someone of working age to have ceased working, or to have ceased looking for a job, and not to appear in records maintained by her Department in respect of unemployment and job seekers?

Answer

1. As of the end of quarter 2 (June 2018) there were 820 people registered with Back to Work as actively seeking work (ASW). The Back to Work teams also provide some specialist services to people who are not registered as actively seeking work.
2. There were 820 actively seeking work (ASW) jobseekers as at the end of June 2018
3. Statistics Jersey publish two unemployment indicators for Jersey:

• registered unemployment: the number of people registered as actively seeking work (ASW) with the Social Security Department – this data is provided by Back to Work and then independently analysed and published by Statistics Jersey
• the International Labour Organisation (ILO) unemployment rate: the number of registered unemployed as well as people not registered but still seeking work

4. Yes, there will be working age people who are not working but not registered as actively seeking work and therefore not recorded as part of the unemployment statistics. This will include people with long-term health conditions, people who have retired early, and people who are looking after a family or caring for a relative.

It is important to note that unemployed Jersey residents are not required to register as ASW (there are however certain requirements for those in receipt of Income Support).

The registered unemployment numbers published by Statistics Jersey therefore constitute an informative set of indicators demonstrating the level of individuals registered as actively seeking work in the island at a given point in time. The internationally comparable unemployment rate is defined by the ILO. This includes both the registered unemployed and those not registered but still seeking work.

Statistics Jersey publish the ILO unemployment rate for Jersey. It is measured by the Annual Social Survey, the Household Spending and Income Survey and the Census. In recent years, the ILO unemployment rate for Jersey has been:

• 4.7% in March 2011, measured by the 2011 Jersey Census, corresponding to 2,570 people being unemployed and looking for work in March 2011
• 5.7% in June 2013, measured by the 2013 Jersey Annual Social Survey, corresponding to 3,200 people being unemployed and looking for work in June 2013
• 4% in the period of April 2014 to May 2015, measured by the 2014/2015 Household Spending and Income Survey, corresponding to 2,500 people being unemployed and looking for work

15. DEPUTY C.S. ALVES OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING INDIVIDUALS APPLYING FOR ENTITLED STATUS BEFORE COMPLETING 10 YEARS OF ORDINARY RESIDENCE IN JERSEY: [WQ.142/2018]

Question

Will the Chief Minister advise –

1. how many individuals have applied for Entitled status in the last 5 years before reaching 10 years of ordinary residence in the Island;
2. how many of these people were granted Entitled status; and

3. what the reasons were for granting Entitled status in such cases?

Answer

The following table outlines applications in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 to date for "entitled" status on the grounds of hardship under the Control of Housing and Work (Jersey) Law, 2012, and how many were granted:

The reasons for granting "entitled" status on the grounds of hardship fall under the following headings, in line with published policy guidance:

• Relationship breakdown
• Death of a spouse
• Medical reasons
• Accommodation related
• Extended absences/ Broken residence

The following table outlines applications in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 to date for "entitled" status on social and/ or economic grounds under the Control of Housing and Work (Jersey) Law, 2012, and how many were granted:

No other applications for entitled status were made or approved.

16. DEPUTY C.S. ALVES OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL  SERVICES  REGARDING  DIAGNOSES  OF  MESOTHELIOMA: [WQ.143/2018]

Question

Will the Minister state –

1. how many diagnoses of mesothelioma there have been in the last 10 years; and
2. what the average life expectancy is of those who have been diagnosed in Jersey?

Answer

1. The States of Jersey does not maintain a central disease register for non-notifiable diseases and is therefore unable to provide the total number of cases of mesothelioma diagnosed in Jersey in the last 10 years.

We are able to provide the number of patients who have been admitted as an inpatient (for any reason, related or not) who had a diagnosis of mesothelioma coded.

Health and Community Services code acute inpatient diagnoses. The table below shows the total number of unique patients (by year) with mesothelioma who had an inpatient episode.

It is important to note that these episodes may not have been directly related to mesothelioma. For example, if a patient with mesothelioma was admitted for an orthopaedic trauma, they would be counted in the table below.

There were a total of 32 unique patients with a diagnosis of mesothelioma who had an inpatient episode within the timeframe below. The same patients could appear in different years.

Data are available from June 2011 which was when the hospital patient administration system (TrakCare) was implemented. Data are reported up to the end of 2017 as there are respiratory episodes still to be coded from 2018.

2. There are no local statistics available for mesothelioma survival or life expectancy because there are not enough cases locally to calculate survival data accurately. However, it is unlikely that the survival/ life expectancy of Jersey patients will be greatly different from patients elsewhere. Information from both the UK and America shows that:

• the average mesothelioma life expectancy ranges from 12 to 21 months from the date of diagnosis

• survival rates are higher in those diagnosed under 50 years old and lowest in those aged 75 years and over when diagnosed

• women have better survival rates than men

• survival rates for peritoneal mesothelioma (tumour originating in the abdominal lining) patients is more than five times higher than the rate for pleural (tumour originating in the lung lining) patients.

Survival rates are affected by the age and sex of the patient, the type of mesothelioma and the stage at diagnosis and can change as both new and standard mesothelioma treatments are developed.

Useful references:

Mesothelioma life expectancy – Mesothelioma Group https://www.mesotheliomagroup.com/mesothelioma/prognosis/life-expectancy/ Mesothelioma statistics – Cancer Research UK

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/statistics-by-cancer- type/mesothelioma

Changing Pattern in Malignant Mesothelioma Survival Study – National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4350634/

17. DEPUTY C.S. ALVES OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS REGARDING COMPLAINTS IN RESPECT OF AGGRESSIVE OR DANGEROUS DOGS: [WQ.144/2018]

Question

Will the Minister advise –

1. how many complaints, if any, there have been regarding aggressive or dangerous behaviour by dogs towards other dogs or people in the last 5 years;
2. how many of these complaints, if any, have resulted in court proceedings; and
3. how many of any such proceedings have been awarded in favour of the complainant?

Answer

1. 2013 for the following offences:

• 57 incidents where the owner or somebody else walking the dog(s) has failed to keep control of the dog(s) and they were alleged to be dangerously out of control;
• 10 incidents of dogs worrying livestock;
• 3 incidents recorded under the Policing of the Beaches (Jersey) Regulations 1959 where a dog or dogs rush at, worry or otherwise interfere with the safety, comfort or convenience of another.

2. SOJP have recorded that 10 of the complaints were proceeded with at Court.
3. Rather than proceedings being awarded in favour of the complainant, there have been occasions where the Court has found that a dog is not under proper control and has made appropriate orders to keep the dog under proper control.

For context, up until 2016 all applications came by way of representation by an aggrieved person and the Court could only place an order on the dog – it was only after a breach of such an order that the owner became subject to a criminal offence.

In 2016 the States Assembly approved specific offences to deal with dog owners and/or carers, with the ability to place orders on dogs – these offences were brought by the Attorney General. The Magistrate can either order that the dog be destroyed or kept under proper control – with or without conditions. The table below shows the number of control and destruction orders made since 2014.

18. DEPUTY M. TADIER OF ST. BRELADE OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING THE RESCHEDULING OF CANNABIS UNDER MISUSE OF DRUGS LEGISLATION: [WQ.145/2018]

Question

What is the Minister's assessment of the finding of Cannabis: The Evidence for Medical Use' (i.e. the Barnes Report) that "cannabis does have medicinal value and continuing placement of cannabis under Schedule 1 of the Misuse of Drugs Act, which thus states it is of no medicinal value, is inaccurate and misleading"; will he undertake to re-visit the scheduling of cannabis under Jersey law; if not, will he explain why not; and, if so, will he state when cannabis will be removed from Schedule 1 of the Misuse of Drugs (Jersey) Law 1978?

Answer

The Barnes Report continued in the following sentence to state: "We consider that the evidence firmly suggests that cannabis should be a legal product for medicinal use, as long as the quality of the product is guaranteed and the supply chain secured and that medicinal users are, as far as possible and practicable, entered into long term studies of both efficacy and side effects."

The advice received from the Misuse of Drugs Advisory Council (MDAC), partly in response to the Barnes Report but also other reviews as well, was to reschedule specified cannabis-derived products which  satisfy  the  requirements  of  quality  in  order  that  they  could,  where  deemed  clinically appropriate, be prescribed for patients. This is what is being done.

Should new evidence become available and MDAC advises that cannabis in its entirety should be rescheduled then I would be willing to review the position. In the meantime, I will consider the adoption of the proposed generic definition of cannabis-derived medicinal products being developed by the UK as soon as it is available and place this definition in the appropriate schedule as advised by MDAC.

19. DEPUTY M.  TADIER  OF  ST.  BRELADE  OF  THE  MINISTER  FOR  SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING THE IMPACT OF CHANGES TO SOCIAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTION RATES: [WQ.146/2018]

Question

What would be the estimated change in yield were the rate of Social Security contributions changed to –

1. 5% for both employee and employer, with no cap; and
2. with only employee contributions at 5%, with no cap?

Answer

Contributions from working age adults are due on earnings up to pre-defined earnings ceilings, which are set on an annual basis. In 2017 these limits were set as follows:

A contribution rate of 12.5% is payable on all earnings up to the Standard Earnings Limit (SEL) of £50,160 per year. For Class 1 contributors (employed) the 12.5% liability is split between the employer (6.5%) and the employee (6.0%). Class 2 contributors (self-employed and others not in paid employment) are liable to pay the full 12.5%.

A contribution rate of 2% is payable on earnings between the SEL and the Upper Earnings Limit (UEL) of £165,939 per year. Employers and Class 2 individuals are liable to pay the 2% contribution.

Contributions Rates Modelled

Analysis based on taking 2017 Class 1 contributions collected, and applying the scenarios above to show difference in yield with different Contributions rates up to the current UEL.

Contributions up to UEL

To estimate contributions above the current UEL Tax data for 2016 has been used to determine the amount of earnings that would be above the current UEL level to which the scenario percentages can be applied. Tax data does not include the individual's contributor class and has been scaled to class 1 contributor values.

Yield Comparison

The estimates do not take into account any changes in individual or business behaviour, or any wider economic impacts, that might result from changing the current contributions structure.

Estimates of contributions on earnings above the UEL are based on income tax data for 2016. These estimates are less certain due to variations arising from the ways in which income and earnings are defined.

In addition, the contributions estimates for the highest earners are based on a small number of people. Any changes in the number of these people could have a disproportionate impact on the estimate and the actual sum achieved will be subject to considerable variation.  

20. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES REGARDING ENGAGEMENT WITH HOSPITAL STAFF IN RESPECT OF THE NEW HOSPITAL: [WQ.147/2018]

Question

Will the Minister advise members in detail of the nature of his Department's engagement with hospital staff regarding the building of the new hospital on the existing site, including, but not restricted to, details of –

1. the number and nature of any briefings on the proposals, including who was involved and the number of people participating;
2. the number and nature of any meetings to discuss the minimisation of noise, dust, and vibrations, including details of who was involved; and
3. any written consultation with staff and details of the response to that consultation?

Answer

1. the number and nature of any briefings on the proposals, including who was involved and the number of people participating;

In relation to engagement with staff, this is summarised in an appendix submitted as part of the Future Hospital Planning Public Inquiry to be held 17-21 September 2018. These appendices are in the public domain and can be found on the planning inquiry website:

http://www.hwa.uk.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/CN03-Future-Hospital-Stakeholder- Engagement-summary-2014-2018-Rev06.pdf

In summary, this document sets out an extensive engagement programme, starting from January 2016 to the present day and covers:

- site options

- engagement about preferred site and implications for wider health and social care system

- progression of planning application and early works

- practical implications and mitigation for relocation and construction

- detailed engagement on clinical requirements and floor / room planning.

Since January 2016, members of the Future Hospital project team have held more than 160 separate meetings with approximately 850 hospital staff to give them information, answer questions, hear their views and discuss concerns and requests.

Since April 2016, approximately 800 staff attending the mandatory HSSD Staff Induction have received a briefing from the Future Hospital Project Director on the project, including site selection and design progress. All those attending had the opportunity to ask questions.

The team has also held 17 drop-ins at the General Hospital involving approximately 650 staff, where people could speak directly to the project director, planning advisor and construction advisors.

The project team meets regularly with the Medical Staff Committee, the consultant body, and further meetings have taken place with ward sisters, porters, housekeeping staff, administrative and training staff, midwives and intensive care staff.

2. the number and nature of any meetings to discuss the minimization of noise, dust, and vibrations, including details of who was involved;

In relation to meetings to discuss the mitigation and management of noise, dust and vibrations there are a number of key meetings where these matters have been discussed:

Medical Staff Committee

All Health and Community Services consultant medical staff are invited to the Medical Staff Committee. Since the start of 2016, the Future Hospital project team has attended 11 of these meetings to provide a forum for discussion on issues which included noise, dust and vibration. Some 40 or so consultants attend each meeting.

Infection Control Team

Project directors, including our construction advisors, have met the lead infection control doctor and lead infection control nurse to look specifically at how dust and other building-related contamination would be controlled during demolition and construction of the new hospital. The J3 Project Director shared experience of working on other hospital schemes where construction was carried out on an existing site safely.

Future Hospital Safety Leadership Team Meeting

This committee was set up to develop the necessary policies and procedures to guide safe demolition, construction of the buildings and the safe operation of the hospital throughout the programme of work. It comprises members of the Project Team and Health staff, including infection control staff. There have been two meetings to date.

The Committee comprises:

- Project construction team

- Project client team

- Lead infection control doctor

- Lead infection control nurse

- Health and Safety Manager – Health and Social Care

- Health and Safety Manager – Growth, Health and Environment

- Head of Estates – Health

Staff Drop-Ins'

17 drop-ins between January 2016 and September 2018 have given approximately 650 staff an opportunity to speak directly to team members about construction disturbance.

Future Hospital Neighbourhood Forum

The Hospital Neighbourhood Forum has met three times since July 2018. This forum is for people living and working near or in the hospital and is intended to directly address the practical implications of the construction project. Hospital staff are invited to attend this forum Future Hospital construction advisors J3 have attended all three meetings held to date and provided detailed and comprehensive answers to the many public questions and concerns about potential noise, dust and vibration during the project. These meetings will continue monthly throughout the project.

3. any written consultation with staff and details of the response to that consultation?

In relation to written consultations with staff, the States of Jersey Consultation Code of Practice advises: "Only consult if change is possible. Public participation includes the expectation that people's contribution will influence the outcome, so only consult if there is scope for change."

The Council of Ministers' preferred option was approved by the Assembly (P110/2016) in December 2016 and an Outline Business Case was developed and subsequently approved by the Assembly in December 2017 (P107/2017).

To consult staff after December 2016 where there was no scope for change of site and raise their expectation that their contribution would influence site choice would have been disingenuous and contrary to accepted consultation best practice and the States of Jersey consultation code of practice.

21. DEPUTY M.R. HIGGINS OF ST. HELIER OF THE CHIEF MINISTER REGARDING POLICY IN RESPECT OF CIVIL SERVANTS FOUND TO HAVE LIED TO STATES MEMBERS OR THE PUBLIC: [WQ.148/2018]

Question

Will the Chief Minister advise members what action would be taken under existing policy against any member of the civil service who was found to have lied to States Members and the public, and who would either not admit errors or who covered up their actions; and if such actions would not result in the employee's dismissal, would he be prepared to make such actions result in the commencement of dismissal proceedings?

Answer

The States of Jersey as an employer, has well established procedures and policies dealing with such matters. For example the Civil Service Code of Conduct and the disciplinary procedure.

Complaints against members of staff are taken very seriously, and there are clear protocols for dealing with such matters, at departmental level, depending on the nature of the complaint.

In the event that disciplinary action is appropriate, the procedure lays out the necessary steps, investigation, and evidence gathering needed in order to proceed with a formal hearing. When a referral is made to a professional body, then that organisations procedures will also take effect.

It is for the Head of the Public Service, under the delegated powers of the States Employment Board and associated Codes of Conduct to ensure the effective implementation of the procedures.

22. DEPUTY G.P. SOUTHERN OF ST. HELIER OF THE MINISTER FOR INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDING THE OUTSOURCING OF SERVICES BY THE DEPARTMENT: [WQ.149/2018]

Question

Further to the Minister's responses to Written Questions 82/2018 and 121/2018, which showed a reduction of 88 staff employed within Parks and Cleaning Services, will the Minister state –

1. how many staff were engaged by outsourced companies to deliver parks and cleaning services, the hourly rates of pay that those staff were engaged on, and any differences in comparison with States rates of pay;
2. any other differences in terms and conditions that exist between those outsourced workers and those previously employed by the States; and
3. what arrangements are in place, if any, to provide a break clause in the 5-year contract duration of the new provision?

Answer

1. The Department does not hold, nor have access to, the information requested.

Whilst the tenderers were required to give general indications on expected staff numbers and terms and conditions of employment in order to demonstrate whether the company was a Responsible Employer', the full contractual terms and final numbers for individuals employed by service providers was outside of the procurement process and is commercially confidential between the private sector employers and their staff.

As set out in a previous response:

A Responsible Employer' in this sense is an employer:

• that can demonstrate a track record of compliance with employment legislation;
• is not reliant upon the need for employment licenses to fulfil the services they are tendering for;
• committed to the delivery of appropriate training and the development of skills as befits the role;
• that has policies and processes consistent with the responsibilities they have as employers under the relevant legislation; and
• that uses terms and conditions of employment appropriate to the sector they are operating in.

If the question is intended to relate specifically to former DfI staff being employed by successful contractors, then at the time of outsourcing within Cleaning Services and Parks & Gardens the department proactively set up introductory meetings between employees and the contractors. The contractors did not provide the department with information about the numbers of former States of Jersey employees they contracted with. The department does not have information regarding the contractual arrangements between former States of Jersey employees and the contractors.

2. As we do not hold the information as explained in the above answer to question (a) we are unable to answer question (b).
3. In general the contracts term is for a 3 year initial term with the possibility of a further extension of 2 years in annual increments at the Client's discretion and dependant on performance. The contract term does not prejudice the Client's right to exercise any of the remedies for poor performance nor any break for convenience clause that may exist within the contract.

4. Oral Questions

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding Article 20 of the Dormant Bank Accounts (Jersey) Law 2017: [OQ.107/2018]

Will the Chief Minister advise when a proposition to bring Article 20 of the Dormant Bank Accounts (Jersey) Law 2017 into force will be brought to the States for scrutiny and debate; and if that is no longer the intention, will he explain why?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister):

Article 20, which deals with the distribution of monies will be brought forward before the end of the year as an Appointed Day Act. Also that will be done in consultation with the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel.

2. Deputy S.M. Wickenden of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding legacy issues he had dealt with since taking office: [OQ.106/2018]

Will the Chief Minister agree to provide by the end of the week Members with a list of all the legacy issues he has been dealing with since taking office and will he say which he thinks are the most significant for the Island?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister):

In short, the answer is no, I shall not be providing a list by the end of the week. However, we are facing a number of issues that have arisen from pieces of work and all matters that have arisen or taken place over the last few months. What I will be doing is I will be arranging a briefing for all States Members after half-term so that Members can be fully informed on such issues. I hope that helps the Deputy .

4.2.1 Deputy S.M. Wickenden:

I would like to ask the Chief Minister if he agrees that the term legacy issue', which is what we have heard over the whole of the summer holidays of what work the Chief Minister has been undertaking, is very undescriptive and very unhelpful for areas of Back-Benchers and Scrutiny to be able to know what is being done within the Council of Ministers.

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

I am not entirely sure I understood the question. If Deputy Wickenden wishes to know what the issues are that we are facing, absolutely no problem in him asking for a briefing. There are a variety of issues, which range from Children's Services, as should have been evident from last week, to mental health provision, to organisational cultural change, and on a deadline date, the fact that we have to get the Common Strategic Policy in place by 4th October. However, some of the issues that come around with that, around things like adequacy of financial governance, related systems and process, are the foundations of what we want to do about cultural and organisational change. There are issues arising out of that. They are still being identified as part of what you might call the due diligence that has been going on. That is what I think Members should be briefed on in a far more formalised process where they are able to ask very detailed questions, and that is what I am going to arrange for after half-term.

3. Deputy K.F. Morel of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the supplier of janitorial; supplies to the States of Jersey: [OQ.111/2018]

Will the Minister confirm whether a supplier has been chosen following the tender process CP15/01/377, aimed at finding a supplier of janitorial supplies to the States of Jersey; and, if so, will the Minister tell the Assembly the name of that supplier?

Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

There are 2 parts to this question, so I will do it in 2 sections. The first part: "Will the Minister confirm whether a supplier has been chosen following the tender process?" A company has been selected as preferred supplier following an open competitive tender process to supply cleaning products to the States of Jersey. This contract does not include cleaning staff. The contract is at an advanced stage but it has yet to be executed. The contract will reduce the cost of cleaning products to the States of Jersey by between 10 and 15 per cent a year, and deliver about £100,000 worth of savings per annum. To address the second part of the question: "Will the Minister tell the Assembly the name of that supplier?" The preferred supplier is Tower Supplies, a U.K. (United Kingdom) based company. They already have an on-Island presence. In order to fulfil this contract all bidders for this contract rely on importing cleaning products from the U.K.

1. Deputy K.F. Morel :

Please could the Minister explain upon which criteria the bidder was successful? Was it price or were there other factors? And confirm whether the effect on the current local suppliers and their contribution to the Island's economy was considered when making the decision?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

Yes, there were at least 3 - I think it was 5 - applicants for the contract, which was narrowed down to 3, and everything was considered. As I say, there is no effect other than the cost of the products because it does not involve any cleaning services involving people; only the product price, which was about £100,000 per year cheaper than one of the competitors.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier :

Could the Minister for Treasury and Resources explain what structure is involved here? Is there a company taxable in Jersey involved in this successful bid or will any taxation go to a mainland company?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

Tower Supplies are a U.K. company but, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, also have an on- Island presence already. They will be paying tax in the U.K.

Deputy G.P. Southern :

Could the Minister just clarify, I did not hear the last bit of that. I was looking for: where is the tax payable?

The Deputy Bailiff :

The Minister said tax in the U.K.

3. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

Was any consideration given to the loss of tax by choosing a U.K.-based company over a Jersey- based company who the ultimate distribution of profits will be paid in Jersey? If not, why not?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

I was not part of the committee that did the tenders and so I am not sure of all the details. But of the original 8 tenders, 4 were U.K. and 4 were Jersey. Of course consideration was given to that but when it is purely products that are brought in from the U.K. not involving people, and it is £100,000 less than the nearest tender, then that was seen to be an obvious choice.

4. Senator S.C. Ferguson:

Will the Minister confirm how many of the people who tendered pay tax in Jersey, because most companies in Jersey pay no tax whatsoever?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

I thought I just answered that. Of the 8 final bids, out of a huge expression of interest in the first place, 4 were U.K. and 4 were local suppliers, so local suppliers would have been probably paying tax, depending on which company it was.

5. Connétable C.H. Taylor of St. John :

Could the Minister tell us how many local jobs may be lost as a result? Deputy S.J. Pinel:

This is a tender for products, a contract for products, not cleaning people, as such. There may be a maximum of 2, but we do not know yet.

6. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier :

Just to clarify the Minister's remarks. Will she confirm that no companies are paying tax in this particular instance because the only companies who pay tax in the Island are financial services companies and utilities? All the other companies do not directly pay tax. Is that not correct?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

I really thought I had answered that question. This is just a company that imports cleaning products from the U.K. and they were accepted from their tender because they were £100,000 less than the competing tenders.

7. Deputy G. P. Southern :

What calculation was done, in addition to the £100,000 saving on costs directly to the States, on the missing taxation through any beneficial owner based in Jersey?

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

People keep mentioning the tax, but the Jersey-based company that was employed before would have been paying a tax; I do not know what it was, because I was not part of the committee that interviewed or the board that interviewed the applicants. But the tax that would be payable would be considerably less anyway than the £100,000 worth of saving on the products.

8. Deputy K.F. Morel :

Given that the original contract start date was meant to be December 2017, and we are now 9 months past that, could the Minister inform the Assembly whether the choice of an off-Island supplier has led to that delay and whether, given that other local companies are having to fulfil that contract in the meantime, those £100,000 savings have been lost as a result of these delays?

[10:00]

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

I do not know the answer to the question, basically. Inasmuch as there were originally 60 expressions of interest, hence obviously a longer process of determining who the final tenders would be, and the contract is ready to be signed as we speak.

4. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the provision of public toilets in St. Helier : [OQ.120/2018]

Further to his response to Oral Question 87/2018 about the provision of public toilets in St. Helier , that he would take the matter up with the Chief Minister and his department, will the Minister advise whether he has made any progress in that regard and, if not, when does he plan to do so?

Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour (The Minister for Infrastructure):

I thank the Constable of St. Helier for his triannual question regarding toilets. The good people of Jersey come into town not just to admire the wonderful architecture but to avail themselves of the wonderful shops and stores we have in St. Helier . These self-same stores pay high rates, which goes towards the amenities provided, such as toilets, et cetera. Should the Constable wish to dispose of this responsibility I am more than happy to give him some numbers of people who will come and clean the toilets for him. Should he wish Infrastructure to take over this responsibility then we can come to some arrangement. That is a conversation we can have, and I am more than happy to meet up with the Constable and discuss that.

1. The Connétable of St. Helier :

Could I ask the Minister to answer the question? The question is: has he met the Chief Minister, as he said he would, and his department, to take the matter forward?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

Yes, I have discussed this with the department. Regarding another conversation I was having with the Chief Minister, I did mention this. The Chief Minister obviously is dealing with important matters of State, Brexit, et cetera, I did not want to burden him too much with toilets. But I repeat, I am more than happy to have the conversation with the Constable of St. Helier if he wants to make another arrangement. I did sign an agreement with the Constable many years ago saying that he would clean everything within the ring road and what was then T.T.S. (Transport and Technical Services) would clean everything outside of the ring road. If he wishes to alter that arrangement or if he wishes Infrastructure to take over that facility that is a conversation that we can have.

2. Deputy M. Tadier :

I am intrigued by the apparent non sequitur of the comment of St. Helier shops paying higher rates and then the link to visiting public conveniences in the capital. Is the Minister saying that there is a presumption that anybody who uses the public convenience in St. Helier should have first visited a shop in town and spent money there or that there is some other intrinsic link that we are missing?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I am not sure if the Deputy hangs around the public toilets [Members: Oh!] .. The Deputy Bailiff :

Minister, no. Could you withdraw that please?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I withdraw that, Sir, yes. I say in jest, Sir. But as I say, if people live in St. Helier they are paying rates anyway. If they come in from outside of St. Helier they do so to shop, et cetera, and obviously all the rates payable by businesses go towards the facilities. If the Constable would like me to take over responsibility that is a conversation we can have.

3. Deputy M. Tadier :

I do not have the habit of hanging around public toilets in St. Helier , or in any other Parish, and I am sure the Minister might have seen me if I did have that habit. However, I do think it is important that however the public toilets are funded that they are funded promptly, not just for tourists but for locals who can expect clean and usable toilets. That it should not necessarily fall disproportionately to one Parish to fund toilets that are used by the whole Island, including the tourist community, is that not a reasonable position?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

As I pointed out, many people come to town to shop. I do not think it is unreasonable that the Parish who provide those facilities, as many people - locals, residents, businesses - pay rates towards that. I have said many times, if the Constable would like me to take over those facilities that is a conversation we can have. I cannot make that any clearer.

The Deputy Bailiff :

This appears to have gendered an enormous amount of enthusiasm.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

The Minister appears to be offering to take over the Parish-run toilets. Will he be doing so on the basis of a living wage to anybody he employs to take over these toilets?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

As the Deputy is aware, I was not in favour of outsourcing but outsourced it has been, and I have taken over the department, so whoever takes over it will be a contractor. I would not be party to that. If the Constable would like me to look at that, I am more than happy to do so or to recommend somebody that could do it for him, or if Infrastructure take it over then that is a conversation we can have.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Would the Minister mind answering the question: would that be on the basis of the living wage rather than minimum wage workers, which has already happened to outsourcing, but in this new outsourcing surely the living wage should be a factor?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I would hope so. I am not privy to that information. If something is outsourced it is outsourced. But it will be on the same conditions as they are being cleaned at the moment. I am not sure what the situation is with the Constables, whoever it is is cleaning the toilets at the moment. I am not aware of that.

6. Deputy R.J. Rondel of St. Helier :

It was my understanding that the Minister gave a commitment to Deputy Wickenden to provide a list of all toilet facilities throughout the Island that were the responsibility of the Department for Infrastructure and the Parish of St. Helier . I wonder if he has yet to produce that list?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I have the minutes of the meeting here and the question. It does not say so there. But I am more than happy to do that for Members.

7. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin :

The Constable of St. Helier still has not had an answer to his question, which is: would the Minister advise as to whether he has made any progress? Are we to assume the answer is no?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

Define "progress" with toilets. I cannot make it any clearer than I already have. We need toilet facilities in St. Helier , the Parish is already providing them. If the Constable wants us to take them over that is a conversation we can have. I cannot make that any clearer.

8. The Connétable of St. Helier :

The Minister has made it clear that he sees no unfairness in the fact that ratepayers of the Island's capital fund the provision of public services; not just toilets, but parks, gardens, street cleaning and so on. Whereas the vast majority of such services in the other Parishes are paid for out of general taxation. Is the Minister aware that addressing this inequity was part of the last Strategic Plan and is he going to take it forward in the next one?

Deputy K.C. Lewis :

I am more than happy to discuss that with officers and we will see where we can go with that. But it does seem quite bizarre that the Constable insists on closing toilets down, converting them into cafés, et cetera, and having to build new ones. We are more than happy to take over any existing toilets by arrangement, and that is a conversation I am more than happy to have with the Constable, and I will take this up with officers.

5. Deputy S.M. Ahier of St. Helier of the Minister for Social Security regarding recipients of the Food Costs Bonus and Cold Weather Bonus: [OQ.115/2018]

Will the Minister inform the Assembly whether any people receiving the Level 3 care component of income support currently receive the Food Costs Bonus and the Cold Weather Bonus?

Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier (The Minister for Social Security):

There are no people who are receiving the Level 3 personal care component of income support who receive the separate benefit.

4.5.1 Deputy S.M. Ahier :

According to the Minister's report 2017 on page 61, cold weather payments: "The cold weather payments for the month made to any household receiving income support, that is for the whole of the month, includes one of the following: someone receiving personal care Level 3 component." Could the Minister advise me as to which one of these is erroneous?

Deputy J.A. Martin:

Neither. The benefits that the Deputy asked for are a one-off payment and they are paid twice yearly in May and January. These are for people who are above income support but do not pay tax; there is that bridging gap. The people he is talking about on personal care Level 3 do receive a separate payment for cold weather and these are at the same value as the cold weather bonus but they receive them on a monthly basis automatically with their income support payments. So the question is a bit.. it is not misleading. Both answers are correct. It is not a separate payment for the people who are not on income support on a personal care level but if they are on income support with a personal care level, and the other 2, if you have a child under 3 or a pensioner in your household, they will get the payment this way; monthly in arrears.

6. Deputy M. Tadier of H.M. Attorney General regarding the legality of Jersey residents travelling to Switzerland to end their life: [OQ.125/2018]

Will H.M. (Her Majesty's) Attorney General advise whether it is currently legal for a Jersey resident to travel to Switzerland to end his or her life; and what safeguards, if any, exist to prevent an individual who assists a person with such travel from being prosecuted?

Mr. R.J. MacRae , H.M. Attorney General:

In relation to the offence of suicide or attempting suicide, there has been no prosecution in Jersey for attempting to commit suicide for over 100 years. The act of suicide, and hence any attempt, is no longer regarded by the Jersey courts, of itself, as carrying any civil or criminal penalty. In any event, many departing from Jersey to another country with suicide in mind would not amount to an attempt. As to what safeguards, if any exist, render an individual who assists a person with such travel from being prosecuted, Article 6 of the Homicide (Jersey) Law 1986 recognises the offence of aiding, abetting, counselling, or procuring a person's suicide. The consent of the Attorney General is required to institute proceedings for assisting suicide. The Attorney General will take into account various factors when deciding whether or not to consent to a prosecution in such a case, namely where an individual had assisted in ending another person's life by helping with travel arrangements. Assuming the evidential test was passed, the public interest in prosecution would need to be considered. In that regard, the Attorney General will have regard to the sort of considerations that have been published by the Attorney General of England and Wales, the D.P.P. (Director of Public

Prosecutions), in respect of precisely these sorts of offences. For example, without taking up too much time, a prosecution is more likely to be in the public interest if the deceased was, for example, under 18 or did not have capacity to reach an informed decision or had not reached a voluntary clear, settled, and informed decision to commit suicide, or the deceased did not seek the encouragement or assistance of the suspect personally or on his or her own initiative.

The Deputy Bailiff :

Attorney, might I ask you to bring the answer to a close. The Attorney General:

I was then going on to deal with the public interest factors, which would tend against prosecution. Perhaps if there is a supplementary question I will do so.

The Deputy Bailiff :

If there is a supplementary question you can of course answer it in that sense.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

The first part of the Attorney General's answer, for which I thank him, seemed to indicate that suicide is an otiose law in Jersey, which has not been acted or prosecuted on in some 100 years. If it is the case that this is an otiose law what recommendation has been made by the Law Officers to the relevant States officials to rescind this law and to reconsider the whole matter of suicide laws, especially in the context of recent calls for assisted dying?

The Attorney General:

Distinction needs to be drawn between criminalising taking one's own life and assisting another person to do so. That has occurred in most European jurisdictions. In probably all jurisdictions in Europe now it is no longer an offence to take one's own life. But as the European Court of Human Rights has observed in 36 of 43 E.C.H.R. (European Court of Human Rights) countries, it is still an offence to assist someone else to take their own life. There are complex policy questions here perhaps beyond the scope of this question.

[10:15]

In relation to legislation, it is right that the U.K. and Guernsey have specifically enacted laws to indicate that taking one's own life is no longer an offence, whereas in Jersey it is plain that the custom has changed, we are a customary law jurisdiction, and it is no longer do so, but that has taken place without legislation. It remains an offence to assist another person with taking his or her own life, as indicated by the 1986 law to which I have referred.

2. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is the Attorney General's decision on public interest open to appeal? The Attorney General:

No, in the sense that, save for a theoretical right to challenge a judicial review, it is accepted that the Attorney General's view in relation to public interest is generally a final one. Of course, if the Attorney General were nonetheless to embark upon a prosecution that is plainly contrary to public interest, one would expect the Court to indicate so in clear terms one way or another, perhaps on application to stay the proceedings or on sentence.

3. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Surely the absence of a route to appeal is thrown into question by human rights legislation that we sign up to, is it not?

The Attorney General:

No. It is very important that an independent prosecuting authority has its independence preserved and not called into question. In all jurisdictions that have an independent prosecution service, it is thought to be appropriate and sensible for decisions made by a prosecutor to be independent of all third party pressures and subject only to a review by the courts in particular circumstances. It has always been the view in this jurisdiction that the view of the independent prosecutor is final. Of course, if his decision is wrong then the person prosecuted will either be acquitted or the prosecution stayed as an abuse of process.

4. Deputy M. Tadier :

Given the apparent grey area that exists and the political considerations that need to be made in where the public interest lies in the question of assisting somebody to end his or her own life, would the Attorney General welcome a debate from the States Assembly to give direction and, if indeed, give firm legislation in this particular area?

The Attorney General:

It is a matter for the Assembly and not for me.

7. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary of the Minister for the Environment regarding the catching of crawfish in Jersey waters: [OQ.116/2018]

Will the Minister inform the Assembly if he considered the introduction of a complete ban on capturing crawfish in Jersey waters, rather than increasing the minimum size limits, given the findings in the addendum to P.93/2018 that there is a near complete collapse in the species around the Channel Islands?

Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade (The Minister for the Environment):