States Meeting Transcript - 6th October 2020

STATES OF JERSEY OFFICIAL REPORT TUESDAY, 6th OCTOBER 2020

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER ......................................7

1.1 Welcome to His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor ...................................7 QUESTIONS......................................................................................7

2. Written Questions ........................................................................7

1. Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour of the Minister for Education regarding the levels of reading, writing and maths in Key Stages 1 and 2 (WQ342/2020)........................7
2. Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour of the Minister for Education regarding the Reading, Recovery Plan (WQ.343/2020) ..........................................................8
3. Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour of the Minister for Education regarding the impact of school closures on disadvantaged and vulnerable children (WQ.344/2020) ............9
4. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding Children's Rights Impact Assessments (WQ.345/2020) ................................................... 10
5. Deputy of St. John of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the doctors and surgeons employed within the Department of Health and Community Services (WQ.346/2020) ........................................................................ 11
6. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the Maternity Voices Partnership (WQ.347/2020) ............................ 16
7. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding the use of external consultants by the Government of Jersey (WQ.348/2020) .............................. 17
8. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the sale of the J4 Registration Plate (WQ.349/2020) ............................................ 17
9. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the budget for healthcare (WQ.350/2020) .................................... 18
10. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding States employees working from home of from the U.K. (WQ.351/2020) .................................. 19
11. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Chair of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the financial impact of Covid-19 on the operation of the States Assembly (WQ.352/2020) .............................................................. 20
12. Deputy S.M. Ahier of St. Helier of the Minister of Health and Social Services regarding Court appeals submitted by his Department (WQ.353/2020) ............................ 21
13. Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence of the Chief Minister regarding the rules in respect of minute-taking used by Government staff (WQ.354/2020) ............................ 21
14. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding the Income Distribution Survey (WQ.355/2020) .................................................... 22
15. Connétable of St. Martin of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the funding available to families seeking access to I.V.F. (WQ.356/2020) .................. 22
16. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding the work of the Housing Policy Development Board (WQ.357/2020)................................... 22

17. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Chair of the States Employment Board regarding the use of non-disclosure and compromise agreements (WQ.358/2020) ...... 23
18. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Chair of the States Employment Board regarding the case of social workers and health professionals whose pay has been incorrectly increased in 2017 (WQ.359/2020) .......................................... 24
19. Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence of the Minister for the Environment regarding the protection of trees (WQ.260/2020)...................................................... 24
20. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding negotiations with G.P.s (WQ.361/2020) ...................................... 25
21. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the ability of hospital consultants to offer private polymerase chain reaction (P.C.R.) tests for Covid-19 (WQ.362/2020) ............................................ 25
22. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding the provision of office facilities and administrative support for Ministers and Assistant Ministers (WQ.363/2020) ........................................................................ 26
23. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding overpayments of Social Security benefits (WQ.364/2020) .............................. 28
24. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the financial return received from LibertyBus (WQ.365/2020)....................................... 29
25. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Chair of the States Employment Board regarding the Education Partnership agreement (WQ.366/2020) .................................. 29
26. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture regarding the Economic Council (WQ.367/2020) .................... 30
27. Senator S.Y. Mezec of the Chair of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the trial 3-weekly meeting cycle of the States Assembly (WQ.368/2020) ............... 30

3. Oral Questions........................................................................... 31

1. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary of the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture regarding work on updating the Licensing (Jersey) Law 1974 (OQ.253/2020) ........................................................................... 31

Senator S.W. Pallett (Assistant Minister, Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture

- rapporteur): ........................................................................... 32

1. The Deputy of St. Mary : ................................................................ 32

2. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier : ............................................... 32
3. Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence : .................................................... 32
4. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 33
5. Connétable R.A. Buchanan of St. Ouen : ................................................ 33
6. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence : ........................................ 33
7. The Connétable of St. Lawrence : ....................................................... 33
8. The Deputy of St. Mary : ................................................................ 34

2. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the work of the Mental Health Improvement Board (OQ.261/2020) ....... 34

Senator S.W. Pallett (Assistant Minister, Health and Social Services - rapporteur):........... 34

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 35
2. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour : ................................................. 35
3. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : ................................................................ 35
4. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier : ........................................................ 35
5. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 36
6. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier : .................................................... 36

7. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................. 36
8. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 37

3. Deputy S.M. Ahier of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the measures available to deal with cyclists who injured pedestrians (OQ.252/2020) ..... 37

Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement (The Minister for Home Affairs): ..................... 37

1. Deputy S.M. Ahier : .................................................................... 37
2. Deputy I. Gardiner of St. Helier : ........................................................ 38
3. Deputy I. Gardiner : ..................................................................... 38
4. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................... 38
5. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................... 38
6. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 38
7. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 39
8. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 39
9. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 39
10. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade : ............................................ 39
11. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:.................................................... 40
12. Deputy M. Tadier : ................................................................... 40
13. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :............................................................. 40
14. Deputy S.M. Ahier : .................................................................. 40

4. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Social Security regarding the Care Needs at Home project (OQ.259/2020) ............................................................ 41

Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier (The Minister for Social Security): .......................... 41 3.4.1 Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................. 41

5. Deputy R.J. Ward of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the tax liability of High Value residents (OQ.256/2020) ........................................ 41

Deputy S.W. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Treasury and Resources): ............... 41

1. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 41
2. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 41
3. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 42
4. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................. 42
5. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................. 42
6. The Deputy of St. Mary : ................................................................ 42
7. Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour:.................................................... 42
8. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 43

6. Deputy M. Tadier of the States of Jersey Trustee of the Jersey Community Relations Trust regarding the statue of George Carteret in St. Peter (OQ.254/2020) ............ 43

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet (States of Jersey Trustee of the Jersey Community Relations Trust): 43

1. Deputy M. Tadier : ...................................................................... 43
2. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 44
3. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 44
4. Senator S.Y. Mézec : .................................................................... 44
5. Deputy M. Tadier : ...................................................................... 44

7. Deputy K.F. Morel of the Minister for Education regarding the measures taken to encourage children to cycle to school (OQ.255/2020) .................................. 45

Senator T.A. Vallois (The Minister for Education):........................................... 45

1. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 45
2. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 46

3. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 46
4. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 46

8. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of the Minister for Children and Housing regarding the mental health and wellbeing support offered to children and young people (OQ.262/2020) .. 46

Senator S.Y. Mézec (The Minister for Children and Housing): ............................... 46

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 47
2. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 47
3. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 47
4. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin : ........................................................ 48
5. The Deputy of St. Martin : .............................................................. 48
6. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 48

9. Deputy R.J. Ward of the Chief Minister regarding the undertaking of a Children's Right Impact Assessment for the forthcoming Government Plan (OQ.257/2020) .... 48

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): .............................................. 49 3.9.1 Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 49

10. Deputy K.F. Morel of the Chief Minister regarding the incorporation of home- working withi the OneGov office strategy (OQ.258/2020).............................. 49

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): .............................................. 49

1. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................. 49
2. The Deputy of St. Martin : ........................................................... 50
3. The Deputy of St. Martin : ........................................................... 50
4. Deputy G.P. Southern : .............................................................. 50
5. Deputy G.P. Southern : .............................................................. 50
6. Deputy R.J. Ward :................................................................... 51
7. Deputy R.J. Ward :................................................................... 51
8. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................. 51

11. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Social Security regarding the minimum wage (OQ.260/2020) ..................................................................... 51

Deputy J.A. Martin (The Minister for Social Security): ....................................... 52

1. Deputy G.P. Southern : .............................................................. 52
2. Deputy R.J. Ward :................................................................... 52
3. Deputy R.J. Ward :................................................................... 52
4. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................. 52
5. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................. 52

4. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Children and Housing ..... 53

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 53 Senator S.Y. Mézec (The Minister for Children and Housing): ............................... 53

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 53
   2. Connétable S.A. Le Sueur -Rennard of St. Saviour : ..................................... 54

4.2.1 The Connétable of St. Saviour : ......................................................... 54

3. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................... 54

4.3.1 The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................... 55

4. Deputy M.R. Higgins:.................................................................. 55

4.4.1 Deputy M.R. Higgins:.................................................................. 55

5. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 55
6. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 56
7. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : ................................................................ 57

4.7.1 Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : ................................................................ 57

5. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Chief Minister............................ 57

1. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 57 Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister): .............................................. 57

1. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 57
   2. Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................. 58

5.2.1 Deputy G.P. Southern : .................................................................. 58

3. Deputy M.R. Le Hegarat of St. Helier :.................................................. 58
4. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 58

5.4.1 Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 59

5. Senator K.L. Moore : .................................................................... 59

5.5.1 Senator K.L. Moore : .................................................................... 59

6. Deputy G.J. Truscott of St. Brelade : .................................................... 59
7. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 60
8. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 60

5.8.1 Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 60

9. Deputy M. Tadier : ...................................................................... 61

6. Urgent Oral Question.................................................................... 61

6.1 Deputy K.G. Pamplin of the Minister for Education regarding .................... 61

Deputy J.M. Maçon of St. Saviour (Assistant Minister for Education - rapporteur): .......... 61

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 62
2. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 62
3. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 62
4. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 63
5. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 63
6. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: .................................................................. 63

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY ........................ 64

7. The Assistant Chief Minister will make a statement regarding the Our Hospital project .................................................................................... 64

7.1 Senator L.J. Farnham (Assistant Chief Minister):....................................... 64

1. Senator K.L. Moore : .................................................................... 65
2. Senator K.L. Moore : .................................................................... 65
3. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 66
4. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 66
5. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................... 66
6. The Connétable of St. Helier:........................................................... 67
7. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 67
8. Deputy S.M. Ahier : .................................................................... 67
9. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet : ................................................................ 67
10. The Connétable of St. Brelade : ...................................................... 68
11. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: ............................................................... 68
12. Deputy J.M. Maçon:................................................................. 68
13. Deputy G.J. Truscott: ................................................................ 69
14. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ............................................................... 69
15. Deputy M.R. Higgins: ............................................................... 69
16. The Deputy of St. Martin : ........................................................... 69

17. Deputy M. Tadier : ................................................................... 70
18. Senator K.L. Moore : ................................................................ 70
19. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: ............................................................... 71
20. Deputy K.G. Pamplin: ............................................................... 71

PUBLIC BUSINESS ............................................................................. 72

8. Reduction of lodging period............................................................. 72

8.1 Deputy I. Gardiner : ..................................................................... 72

9. Drinks Promotions (P.105/2020) ........................................................ 74

9.1 Deputy L.B.E. Ash of St. Clement : ..................................................... 75

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED .................................................. 77 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT................................................................ 77

1. Deputy R.E. Huelin of St. Peter : ........................................................ 77
2. Senator S.W. Pallett: .................................................................... 77
3. The Deputy of St. Ouen : ................................................................ 80
4. Deputy K.F. Morel : .................................................................... 81
5. Senator S.Y. Mézec : .................................................................... 81
6. The Deputy of St. Mary : ................................................................ 82
7. The Connétable of St. Brelade : ......................................................... 83
8. Deputy M. Tadier : ...................................................................... 83
9. Deputy R.J. Ward : ...................................................................... 86
10. Deputy L.B.E. Ash: .................................................................. 87

10. Bus Service: revised ticket and fares policy (P.107/2020) .............................. 92

10.1 Deputy M. Tadier : ...................................................................... 92

1. Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier : ...................................................... 96
2. Deputy K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour : .................................................. 96
3. The Connétable of St. Ouen : ........................................................ 98
4. The Connétable of St. Saviour : ...................................................... 98
5. The Deputy of St. Martin : ........................................................... 99
6. Deputy I. Gardiner : .................................................................. 99
7. Deputy R.J. Ward :.................................................................. 100
8. Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade : ................................................. 102
9. Deputy G.P. Southern : ............................................................. 103
10. Deputy H.C. Raymond of Trinity : ............................................... 104
11. Deputy J.A. Martin: ............................................................. 105
12. Deputy L.B.E. Ash: .............................................................. 106
13. The Connétable of St. Helier : .................................................... 106
14. The Connétable of St. Brelade :.................................................. 107
15. Deputy G.C. Guida of St. Lawrence : ............................................ 108
16. Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré: ....................................................... 108
17. Senator S.Y. Mézec :............................................................. 110
18. The Deputy of St. Peter : ......................................................... 112
19. Deputy M. Tadier : ............................................................... 113

ADJOURNMENT .............................................................................. 119

[9:32]

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer. COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

The Bailiff :

1.1  Welcome to His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor

On behalf of Members I would like to welcome His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor to the Chamber this morning. [Approbation]

QUESTIONS

2. Written Questions

1. Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour of the Minister for Education regarding the levels of reading, writing and maths in Key Stages 1 and 2 (WQ342/2020)

Question

Will the Minister state what percentage of (a) Key Stage 1, and (b) Key Stage 2, students were assessed as secure' in reading, in writing and in maths at the end of the following school years –

1. 2018-2019; and
2. 2019-2020?

Answer

The assessment of primary school pupils was considerably hampered by the lockdown of schools in response to the Covid-19 pandemic. As schools closed to the overwhelming majority of children, teaching moved to various online and hard copy methods. This endured from 20th March, until the phased return on June. The focus on the return of children was on their well-being and safe re- introduction under the principles of the Recovery Curriculum. Significant learning time in the core areas of reading, writing and mathematics was lost, as were the means of assessing achievement in these and wider areas of learning. The normal methodology for assessing children at the end of both Key Stage 1 and Key Stage 2 is through moderated teacher assessment under the Jersey Primary Assessment Framework. Under this model, experienced serving teachers from across the education service are appointed and trained as moderators, working with Senior Advisors to moderate the working of teachers in Year 2 and Year 6 classes. In addition, the Department has used the DfE's Year 6 Curriculum tests to support consistency across the Island's system as these new assessment approaches under the Jersey Curriculum are developed.

In the summer 2020, teacher moderation could not happen, and the Curriculum tests were cancelled. Both of these decisions (in the UK and Jersey) were directly due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Schools hold data on all of their pupils. In this most unusual year, the Department focused on the assessment of primary children as the most useful factor to support transition, specifically the primary-secondary transition. This is the held data, only for Key Stage 2. Therefore, the 2020 data cannot be compared directly with that collected in earlier years. Our normal publication regime of the data requested is here: https://www.gov.je/Government/Pages/StatesReports.aspx?ReportID=5102). In 2020, the data collected and currently held is only from mainstream Government of Jersey schools i.e. this does not include the two special schools, Mont à l'Abbé and La Sente, nor the non-provided (private') schools.

To assist with this question, we have recalculated the 2018/19 Key Stage 2 figures to make a comparison with 2020 possible, mindful that the two years cannot be directly compared.

2. Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour of the Minister for Education regarding the Reading, Recovery Plan (WQ.343/2020)

Question

Will the Minister provide the following information with regards to the budget allocated to the Reading Recovery Plan –

1. a breakdown of how the £196,000 allocated to the Plan in 2020 has been spent to date;
2. how the remainder of the money allocated to reading recovery in 2020 is due to be spent; and
3. what plans, if any, exist for spending the money allocated for reading recovery in the remaining years of the Government Plan 2020-23?

Answer

1. £137,054 to cover the staff costs, including mileage reimbursement payments

£1,216 spent on IT devices to continue teaching during school closure

2. The forecast cost of salaries and mileage for the rest of the year is included in the figures at (a)

Due to Covid-19 challenges and leadership changes there was a delay in the recruitment/availability of the third Reading Recovery teacher, there is a forecast underspend of £57,746. The remaining balance of the 2020 budget has been re-allocated to cover departmental Covid-19 costs as it was not possible to complete the recruitment process for a 3rd Reading Recovery teacher during lockdown.

3. The following plans are proposed for 2020-2023:

• A  third  Reading  Recovery  (RR)  teacher  has  been  seconded  initially  to  bring  up  the complement of specialist teachers

• Government Plan money will support three RR teachers in the future

3. Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour of the Minister for Education regardingthe impact of school closures on disadvantaged and vulnerable children (WQ.344/2020)

Question

Will the Minister provide the following information regarding the impact of the school closures due to the Covid-19 pandemic –

1. what assessments, if any, have been made of the impact of such closures on the educational outcomes of disadvantaged and vulnerable children;
2. in light of the loss of contact time during school closures, what interventions, if any, are planned over the next 6 months for disadvantaged and vulnerable children who need immediate educational support in order to negate any negative impact of the pandemic on their educational outcomes; and
3. what learning interventions, if any, were implemented by the Department over the period of school closures and the summer to support disadvantaged and vulnerable children who were identified as most in need of them?

Answer

1. Following the school closures due to the Covid-19 pandemic the focus on the return of children was on their well-being and safe re-introduction to school under the principles of the Recovery Curriculum. The risk of learning loss affects all children, with some evidence of a greater impact on some vulnerable children and those from more disadvantaged backgrounds. This noted, some vulnerable children were able to attend school physically throughout the lockdown, alongside the children of critical workers, so benefited from small class groupings and more focus of their teachers.

The normal methodology for assessing children at the end of both Key Stage 1 and Key Stage 2, through moderated teacher assessment under the Jersey Primary Assessment Framework, was not possible on the children's return. Moreover, as noted, the focus was on well-being. As the children returned to schools in September were advised to assess pupils on their return, and to do so no later than October half-term. Assessments are internal to the school, but the focus is consistent. This is based on teacher assessments, supported by age-appropriate reading tests and mathematics tests. Schools used a range of assessments, with the most prevalent assessment tools used including PIRA, PUMA and Rising Stars'. Assessments have been used to identify possible gaps in knowledge; on this basis teachers have been planning accordingly.

2. The latest draft report, A Report Investigating the Impact of Learning at Home' on Jersey pupils as a result of COVID-19 School Closures: March to July 2020, recognises the impact of COVID-19 on our most disadvantaged and vulnerable pupils.

A Business Case has been submitted that intends to address the impact on specific groups of pupils and covers:

• Additional training and support for teachers which focuses on enhancing teaching skills, mathematics knowledge and reading strategies.

• 1:1 and small group tuition and support. The School Improvement and Advisory Service (SIAS) have devised and prepared a 12-week intensive programme of support for pupils, should the Business Case be successful. If successful these programmes will commence as soon as possible and run until July 2021.

(ci) Interventions

• The Department piloted two intervention programmes at Janvrin and Rouge Bouillon School in the summer 2020.

• The findings will be collated and shared with headteachers. The proposal will be to offer a refined model for children in 2021 in an increased number of schools based on the evidence from the pilot.

4. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding Children's Rights Impact Assessments (WQ.345/2020)

Question

Will the Chief Minister state, in respect of Child Right's Impact Assessments (C.R.I.A.s) –

1. how many C.R.I.A.s have been trialled to date, including any related specifically to policy decisions regarding Covid-19;
2. which Departments have trialled C.R.I.A.s in terms of policy development to date; and
3. when he intends to publish any C.R.I.A.s undertaken for Covid-related policies, in line with the commitment made during Questions without notice on 22nd September 2020?

Answer

We are expecting to introduce a Jersey Children's Rights Impact Assessment (CRIA) process in 2021, as part of the indirect incorporation law which will require Ministers, Assembly Members and named public authorities to have due regard' to the United Nations Convention of the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) in 2021. CRIA will become mandatory for Ministers and States Members when developing policy, legislation and propositions or amendments for debate in the Assembly but will otherwise be considered the best-practice option for demonstrating due regard.

Jersey's CRIA process will commence with an initial screening' step to quickly establish if the policy area in question has any potential positive or negative impacts on children. If the likelihood of impacts is identified, this step will be followed by detailed assessment and prediction of the way in which the identified policy options are expected to impact children and children's rights; thus allowing potential enhancements or mitigations to be devised. A full CRIA process should include consultation with children and other stakeholders including the Children's Commissioner.  

The template and guidance for the Jersey CRIA process is currently under development, with plans for a pilot programme to run within the Government of Jersey and States Assembly ahead of the legislation's expected enactment next year. Details of the pilot programme will be published shortly. (a) & (b)  To date, we are aware of two CRIA Initial Assessments' that have been trialled. The first of these was undertaken by CYPES in relation to the reopening of schools during the summer term. This can be found on the "Guidance for education and childcare: coronavirus (COVID-19)" page of Gov.je.

A second CRIA was started by officers from IHE in conjunction with the draft Public Health and Safety (rented Dwellings) (Licensing) (Jersey) Regulations.

(c)  The publication of the CRIA undertaken by CYPES is a matter for the Education Minister to determine. The partial CRIA undertaken by IHE is not a Covid-related policy.

5. Deputy of St. John of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the doctors and surgeons employed  within the Department of Health and Community Services (WQ.346/2020)

Question

Will the Minister provide detailed lists of the doctors and surgeons employed within the Department of Health and Community Services, indicating –

1. employment grade;
2. whether the contract is temporary or permanent; and
3. the length of time in post; and

will the Minister state how many medical personnel employed by the Department are at present suspended from practice, indicating the length of suspension in any such case?

Answer

1. employment grade;

Below is a list of the post descriptions showing the grades of the doctors and surgeons in HCS.

Post Description

Consultant in Respiratory Medicine  Consultant in Paediatrics Consultant Orthopaedics and Trauma  Consultant in Cardiology Consultant in Diabetes  Consultant in Haematology

Dental Consultant - Oral Surgery  Consultant Histopath. and Cytopath. Acute Physician Consultant  Consultant

Consultant in Radiology  Consultant in Anaesthetics Consultant in Ophthalmic Surgery  Medical Director

Consultant in Restorative Dentistry  Consultant in Cardiology Consultant in ENT  Clinical Advisor

Acute Physician Consultant  Consultant in Microbiology

Associate  Specialist  in  Emergency  

Associate Specialist - General Surgery Med.

Associate  Specialist  in  Emergency  Med.  

Associate  Specialist  in  Emergency  Med.  

Associate Specialist - Ophthalmology  Associate Specialist in Neurology Locum F2 2 Accident and Emergency  Locum F2 2 Accident and Emergency  

The total numbers in each grade are shown below

2. whether the contract is temporary or permanent;

3. the length of time in post

Will the Minister state how many medical personnel employed by the Department are at present suspended from practice, indicating the length of suspension in any such case?

We do not believe it is appropriate to share this information as, given the small number of medical personnel on suspension, it may be possible to identify individuals. However, we can confirm there are less than 5 medical personnel currently suspended.

6. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the Maternity Voices Partnership (WQ.347/2020)

Question

Will the Minister provide an update on progress to introduce a Maternity Voices Partnership, including –

1. details of any terms of reference that have been put in place;
2. confirmation of how members of the public may engage with this group;
3. dates of any meetings already held; and

if there has been no progress on any such actions, will the Minister state why not? Answer

1. A draft terms of reference is being worked up which will be reviewed at the next meeting of the Jersey Maternity Voices Partnership (MVP).
2. The next meeting of the Partnership will involve the core group of 11 women who attended the inaugural meeting. The intention is that they will confirm the terms of reference and the vision and goals of the MVP. Thereafter, once the MVP is formally established, all women accessing maternity services will be made aware of the group and invited to attend its meetings and input to the Partnership.
3. The launch of the MVP in February 2020 was attended by 11 service users. They had responded to a social media post on the government of Jersey Facebook page inviting

expressions of interest. There was good discussion and excellent feedback. There was general support for the idea that a MVP would provide a centralised, robust support mechanism for ongoing feedback and service improvement.

The planned quarterly meetings have had to be postponed due to Covid-19, but attention is now turning to setting up a meeting to build on the enthusiasm and interest shown at the inaugural event earlier this year.

7. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding the use of external consultants by the Government of Jersey (WQ.348/2020)

Question

Will the Chief Minister provide a breakdown of the costs to the Government of Jersey, if any, of recruiting and engaging any outside consultants for the purposes of preparing or drafting publications, reports, publicity materials, press releases and any other Government publications (including in respect of the Government Plan) for the period 1st January to 26th September 2020?

Answer

The current state of Government records, with no central record of procurement information, makes both the collation of this report and detailing consultancy costs in any other way, such as that requested above, difficult within the time available to answer this question.

Additionally, the preparation of reports, press releases or publications will cross the entire Government and isolating those consultants who may have had an input into one of these would be a manual process and therefore this information also cannot be produced in the timeframe available.

Details of consultants are however published every six months under Proposition 59 which details the work they are undertaking. The next publication will be issued in December, if not sooner, for January to June 2020.

The ITS programme includes a requirement for timesheet capability which will allow assignment of individuals' time to projects which will eventually allow more detailed reporting on consultants' time.

8. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the sale of theJ4 Registration Plate (WQ.349/2020)

Question

In relation to the sale of the J4 registration number, will the Minister advise –

1. who was the owner of the registration plate prior to the sale;
2. whether the sale of the registration plate was requested by the Department and, if not, by whom the sale was requested or offered;
3. how much money generated by the sale of the registration plate will be contributed to the cost of purchasing an electric vehicle; and

4. a breakdown of the costs to the States of the auction, including any payments to external businesses involved in the sale?

Answer

1. The Government of Jersey owns all registration marks.
2. The sale of the registration plate was proposed by Government House who approached DVS in the first instance.
3. As yet, the amount has to be confirmed, however circa £60,000 will be allocated towards the purchase of a replacement vehicle to include any modifications required to make it suitable for official use. The replacement vehicle will remain under the ownership of the Government of Jersey and will be a fleet vehicle, in this case for the use of His Excellency, the Lieutenant Governor.
4. J4 was part of 51 lots in this year's auction which raised £592,300 in total. The breakdown of the costs to the Government of Jersey are as follows:

No commission costs were incurred by the Government of Jersey as they are paid for by the successful bidder.

9. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the budget for healthcare (WQ.350/2020)

Question

Will the Minister provide a breakdown of his Department's budget to show in particular the current overall cost of healthcare to the Island (including the impact of Covid-19 on such costs), the level of debt (if any) owed by the Department, and the budget available for outstanding maintenance on the Department's buildings?

Answer

The latest available budget that shows the current cost of healthcare identifies net expenditure to the 30th August on healthcare within HCS as £165.8m, including the impact of Covid-19. This splits

into pay of £111m and non-pay of £71.6m, offset by income of £16.8m. Within this, Covid-19 is estimated at £19.4m.

As with all other departments, HCS has creditors which vary throughout the year and which are paid monthly, but those due as at the end of August total £13.9m.

The annual budget for maintenance is £7m.

10. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Chief Minister regarding States employees working from home of from the U.K. (WQ.351/2020)

Question

For the period from 1st March 2020 to date, will the Chief Minister provide a breakdown of –

1. the number and proportion of States employees and consultants either working from home in Jersey or who were working from the U.K.;
2. the number of days worked by employees and consultants from the U.K. during this period; and
3. the cost of any travel required from workers or consultants to travel to, and from, the U.K. for work purposes?

Answer

1. Given the general state of HR records and the current manual processes that have to be used, it is not possible to provide an accurate number or proportion of days worked from home (in Jersey) or from the UK for employees and consultants. It should be noted however, that due to the small numbers of individuals who were working from the UK at the time, we were able to identify those figures in WQ155/2020.

The following information may also be of assistance:

During Level 4 of the Safe Exit Framework which ran from 30/03/20 until 10/05/20, only essential workers were coming into their workplace. There were approximately 1,800 government workers designated as essential, this figure excludes HCS colleagues.

The number working from home decreased over the subsequent months and weeks to the position we are in now, where approximately:

• During the outbreak, roughly 2,000 office-based staff worked from home – roughly 25% of the total.

• Currently, an estimated 15% of public sector workers are working from home on either a full-time or part-time basis.

Level 3 applied in Jersey from 11 May to 11 June. Non-Essential businesses were able to reopen, however working from home remained the default position within GoJ.

  Level 2 applied in Jersey from 12 June to 7 August. Working from home remained the default position within GoJ wherever possible, at this time more staff would have returned to the workplace.

The current position is different across all departments dependent on the nature of the work involved, and the ability to perform that work from home.

2. The number of days worked by employees and consultants from the U.K. during this period is not  held. As previously stated,  WQ.155/2020 confirmed the small number of employees and contractors working from the UK at the end of April.
3. During this period work travel would have only been taken where necessary. Due to the fact that travel may have been incurred in different ways e.g. booked centrally, included in consultants' charges, added as agreed expenses to invoices it is not possible to detail the total cost of travel for work during this period within the time available. If the Deputy has any further, specific queries, we would be more than happy to arrange a briefing with the relevant officials within Human Resources.

11. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Chair of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the financial impact of Covid-19 on the operation of the States Assembly (WQ.352/2020)

Question

Will the Chair provide a breakdown of the costs of the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on the continued operation of the States Assembly, covering the period from 1st March to 25th September 2020, including –

1. any additional staffing required at the States Greffe;
2. any overtime or sickness absence days incurred by States Greffe staff;
3. technical support from Digital Jersey or any digital broadcasting company to enable remote and hybrid States sittings to take place;
4. any additional technical equipment required to enable remote or hybrid States sittings; and
5. the hiring of Fort Regent?

Answer

1. There was no additional staffing required at the States Greffe in the time period from 1st March 2020 to 25th September 2020 because of Covid-19.
2. In the period from 1st March 2020 to 25th September 2020 there was:
   1. no overtime paid to States Greffe staff; and
   2. no Covid related absence recorded.
3. Costs incurred in connexion with technical support from companies assisting with the digital broadcasting:

1. £1,404.78 to Ports of Jersey (for the recording set up at Fort Regent and in the States Chamber); and
2. £9,567.80 to Delta Production Services (for the hire of equipment, set-up, and staff at Fort Regent);
3. £2,225.00 to ALX (for the support for Chamber sitting and Members training); and
4. The assistance received from Digital Jersey to set up and run virtual sittings of the Assembly was not charged for.

4. Costs incurred for technical equipment required to enable remote or hybrid States sittings:
   1. £471.90 to Zoom (Hybrid Meeting Trial);
   2. £127.00 for a monitor for the States Chamber; and
   3. £2,378.79 for 3 laptops for the States Chamber (at a cost of £792.93 each).
5. No direct cost was incurred for the hire of Fort Regent, however (as per section (c) (ii) above) there was £9,567.80 paid to Delta Production Services for associated equipment hire, set up, and staff costs.

12. Deputy S.M. Ahier of St. Helier of the Minister of Health and Social Services regarding Court appeals submitted by his Department (WQ.353/2020)

Question

Will the Minister state –

1. the total number of appeals to Court decisions, if any, submitted by his Department in the last 5 years;
2. the total cost to the taxpayer of any such appeals in the last 5 years; and
3. the total number of any successful appeals submitted by his Department in the last 5 years?

Answer

1. One appeal has been lodged on behalf of the Minister for Health and Social Services in the last five years and this case has not been concluded.
2. and (c) Given the answer to a), it is not possible to answer parts b) and c)

13. Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence of the Chief Minister regarding the rules in respect of minute-taking used by Government staff (WQ.354/2020)

Question

Will the Chief Minister state what rules, if any, the Government of Jersey uses to inform staff as to when they should take and keep minutes and records of a meeting; and if such rules exist, will he provide the Assembly with a copy?

Answer

Specific, formal meetings, such as the Council of Ministers have set processes for minute taking and record keeping. For example, the States of Jersey Law 2005 prescribes in Article 18 how minutes for the Council of Ministers are to be taken and kept.

For these significant groups, formal minutes are taken and recorded by the States Greffe, for which the Chief Minister thanks the ongoing professionalism of the Clerks, particularly for the increased number of meetings during the pandemic due to the meetings of the Emergencies Council and the Competent Authorities Ministers, which have been recorded.

Other specific groups, such as Policy Development Boards maintain terms of reference, which would generally include requirements for minute taking and keeping records of those meetings. Details of requirements for PDBs can be found here, which includes a requirement that "minutes of meetings will be taken to ensure an auditable record is maintained.  

Whilst there are no written "rules" for the recording of minutes in one-off or more informal meetings, staff are expected to use professional judgment as to when a record should be kept. The Public Records (Jersey) Law 2002 specifies the retention process for any records that are kept.

14. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding the Income Distribution Survey (WQ.355/2020)

Question

Will the Chief Minister state what confirmation, if any, he has had from the Chief Statistician of when in Quarter 4 of 2020 the States Assembly will receive figures from the pre-Covid-19-period Income Distribution Survey; and if such figures are available, when will he share them with the Assembly?

Answer

The Chief Minister is scheduled to meet with the Chief Statistician on the 5th October and will update the Assembly as soon as practicably possible after the meeting has concluded.

15. Connétable of St. Martin of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the funding available to families seeking access to I.V.F. (WQ.356/2020)

Question

Will the Minister outline what work, if any, has been conducted on increasing the level of funding available to families seeking access to I.V.F. (in vitro fertilisation), including – but not limited to – raising the household income cap from £34,000?

Answer

HCS has committed to undertaking a strategic review of the Assisted Reproductive Service in Jersey, which will incorporate current policy and how this impacts on access to the service and off-island pathways. The current financial threshold for services will be part of this review which commenced in July and is due for completion by Jan 2021. The review seeks to ensure there is a long-term sustainable Assisted Reproductive service established for Jersey.

16. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding the work of the Housing Policy Development Board (WQ.357/2020)

Question

Will the Chief Minister state what research, if any, has been undertaken by the Housing Policy Development Board, or any Government department, into –

1. foreign direct investment in the housing market;
2. domestic investment in the housing market;
3. the share transfer and flying freehold markets; and

will he agree to the immediate publication of any such research that exists?

Answer

There has not been any research undertaken by the Housing Policy Development Board in relation to parts (b) and (c) of the question, nor is it believed by any other Department.

Regarding part (a) of the question, the publicly available minutes of the Housing Policy Development Board of the 19 September 2019 state that:

"Foreign ownership of property: The Board was informed that the work undertaken to date in relation to foreign ownership of property has been provided to Altair and the Chair so that the issue can be included in the solutions phase. A summary of the work was discussed setting out the likely positive and negative effects of foreign ownership on the local property market in relation to supply and demand. The work to date has considered the policy interventions used across a wide range of jurisdictions and identified that the size of the issue is not satisfactorily understood locally due to the way in which the information is captured. Changes underway in the Tax Department mean that future data capture will provide for better accuracy as to the size and nature of the foreign buy to let market in Jersey."

As reflected in the minutes, the Board has been addressing this matter and is currently in the process of producing its final report, which will be submitted to me before the end of the year. A decision will then be made as to whether any additional information should be published alongside the publication of the report itself.

17. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Chair of the States Employment Board regarding the use of non-disclosure and compromise agreements (WQ.358/2020)

Question

Will the Chair state –

1. the names given to the different types of non-disclosure and compromise agreements used within the States and describe any differences that exist between them and their use; and
2. who is able to enter into any such compromise agreements and non-disclosure agreements on behalf of the States of Jersey, outlining any checks and balances that exist on those who are allowed to do so?"

Answer

a.  The names given to the different types of agreements used within the Government of Jersey are Compromise and Severance Agreements. Each agreement contains a confidentiality statement also known as a non-disclosure agreement'. These agreements are an important legal framework used to protect sensitive and confidential information from being disclosed by all parties that are subject to them.

a.  Employees who have delegated authority are able to enter into these agreements. Advice is normally sought from the Law Officers' Department and an approval process is entered into prior to the agreement being signed.

The approval process includes the Director General responsible for the Department, the HR Business Partner and the HR Director. Audits are carried out to ensure checks and balances are in place. The signed approval form must be saved with all agreements for audit purposes.

For those involving senior officers or potentially a high liability, the Group Director for People and Corporate Services must agree before discussions are entered into with the employee or their representative and sets the parameters for such discussions.

The Treasurer will be notified of any high value agreements who in turn will seek his own assurance about the level of potential liability from the Law Officers' Department.

The States Employment Board has oversight of any arrangements with Tier One or Tier Two officers.

Financial Regulations require the Government not to enter into any ultra vires agreement through sums that exceed the potential liability. Should a commercial settlement in excess of these terms be preferable, the States Employment Board must agree to the terms in advance.

18. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Chair of the States Employment Board regarding the case of social workers and health professionals whose pay has been incorrectly increased in 2017 (WQ.359/2020)

Question

Will the Chair provide an update on how the States Employment Board dealt with the case of 126 social workers and health professionals whose pay was incorrectly increased in 2017 through wrongful regrading, including any financial consequences of that act?

Answer

All the involved roles have now been evaluated and the full scope of the project has been fulfilled. The project has received positive feedback from senior members of HCS, Probation and CYPES in terms of how this work has been managed, the outcomes that have been communicated to individuals and their managers, and the mainly positive impact on their teams. Civil Service Staff Side were kept fully appraised throughout the project, enabling them to advise and support their members of each stage of the process. They have positively supported the process including the appeal process.

The overall cost of the project, including the cost of job evaluations and the cost of pay protection for those downgraded as a result of it, amounts to £892,200.

19. Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence of the Minister for the Environment regarding the protection of trees (WQ.260/2020)

Question

Will the Minister provide the number and details of enforcement actions, if any, that have been taken in regard to protecting trees under the Planning (Jersey) Law 2002 for each year since 2015?

Answer

Undertaking work to a tree is not currently defined as development' under the Planning and Building (Jersey) Law 2002. On this basis, the need to take enforcement action would only arise where work is undertaken to a tree(s) that enjoys some form of protection without the necessary permission being sought.

Trees can be protected where they have high amenity value and where they make a valuable and important contribution to the local environment by adding them to the list of protected trees or protecting them with a planning condition.

The Minister for the Environment is advised that there has been no enforcement action taken, since 2015, for unauthorised work to trees that are on the list of protected trees; or which are protected by planning condition.

There have, however, been 67 applications to remove or undertake works to trees on the list of protected trees during that time; one of which has been refused; two of which have been withdrawn; and the remainder approved.

The Minister for the Environment is concerned at the loss of trees in the island and is seeking to make changes to the law to provide greater control over works to them; and to ensure greater rigour in the assessment of proposals to remove or manage them.

20. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social  Services regarding negotiations with G.P.s (WQ.361/2020)

Question

Will the Minister state what negotiations, if any, have taken place between his Department and the representatives of G.P.s over the terms of any future contract for their services, and advise what agreement, if any, there has been over the figures of G.P. salaries contained in tables 2.14 and 2.15 of the report attached to Jersey Care Model' (P.114/2020)

Answer

Work has been undertaken with GPs in relation to future funding models, however, there have been no negotiations to date over the terms of any future contracts for their services.

As the document states "Table 2.14 below describes the sources of income for GPs for 2019 (based on GP funding data for 2018)". These are estimated figures used to produce the model – not a negotiated position with GP agreement.

21. Deputy M.R. Higgins of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the ability of hospital consultants to offer private polymerase chain reaction (P.C.R.) tests for Covid-19 (WQ.362/2020)

Question

Will the Minister advise whether hospital consultants are allowed to offer private patients polymerase chain reaction (P.C.R.) tests for Coronavirus; and if so, whether any such tests are processed through the Hospital and Airport laboratories or in the U.K., what charge there is for doing so and whether there is a fixed fee for the patient?

Answer

Covid PCR tests have now been added to the repertoire of hospital-agreed tests administered through pathology services to private patients. Others would be blood tests or tissue biopsies, for example. The vast majority receiving such Covid PCR tests are pre-operative private patients. Such screening tests would need to be done before surgery or on admission whether the patient having the operation is private or public. Such tests are not performed just because someone may be curious about whether they are positive or not. The tests are processed in the normal way ie through public facilities and, as always, only urgent samples are being done on-Island. The charge for the test of £113 is split between the hospital and the consultant with the cost of the test fully met. The number of such tests is relatively small and does not detract from the non-private response.

22. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Chief Minister regarding the provision of office facilities and administrative support for Ministers and Assistant Ministers (WQ.363/2020)

Question

Will the Chief Minister provide a full breakdown of costs for the period May 2018 to the present for the following –

1. administrative support for the 21 members of the Government (Ministers and Assistant Ministers); and
2. provision of office facilities for the 21 members of the Government?

Answer

In order to answer the Deputy 's question, it is important to understand the rationale for the structural changes made in June 2018. Following the findings of both C&AG, PAC and Scrutiny over the last five years and the due diligence work that was carried out between October 2017 and January 2018,

Ministerial support has now been consolidated and/or centralised as part of the Office of the Chief Executive to address these issues.

Past reviews found that Ministers were not always served well due to a lack of coordinated support and advice across the government.

In particular it was identified that there was:

• Lack of dedicated support to improve the timeliness of Ministers decision making and joint working

• Outdated infrastructure and governance arrangements to support a performance driven organisation

• Outdated working practices in terms of decision making, priority setting and forward planning

• More specifically the due diligence found that there was not a culture of serving ministers well

• Insufficient clarity between officers and Ministers

• No dedicated Ministerial support to build alignment between Ministers, their departments and their Senior Management Teams

However to date, the Chief of Staff Office and Ministerial Support Unit (MSU) has been funded to date by temporary funding sources, even though staffing has been in place since 2018. A settled structure has now been established. This was originally discussed and agreed as part of the 2020 Government Planning arrangements with an agreement to bring forward in the 2021 Plan (once the Target Operating Model arrangements had been settled).

The underlying rationale for the improvements made by the formation of the MSU were set out on pages 106 and 107 of the  Government Plan 2020 - 2023, as part of closer working between Government and the States Greffe. This also included an additional £2.3m of expenditure on "States Greffe extended services" to facilitate these improvements.

The total costs for the provision of administrative support to the 21 Ministers and Assistant Ministers are given below. This support, provided by the staff of the MSU, enables a range of functions, beyond just administration. These functions were previously provided to Ministers from budgets and teams across the different Departments within the organisation. The centralised MSU has meant that a more coordinated, joined-up support service is being provided.

The services provided by the MSU include:

• Enabling  the  efficient  and  coordinated  flow  of  information  between  Government Departments and Ministers.

• Supporting Ministers in preparation for the States Assembly and for Scrutiny hearings and briefings.

• Acting as the Scrutiny Liaison between Ministers, their Departments and Scrutiny, ensuring queries are fielded and information provided in as timely manner as possible.

• Facilitate and coordinate the Council of Ministers and other significant ministerial meetings, most recently including the Emergencies Council and Competent Authorities Ministers meetings.

• Provision of a research service for Ministers and Assistant Ministers.

• Response to public queries and correspondence directed to the Ministers.

• Diary and travel management.

• Liaison with the Communications directorate for press queries, briefings and interviews.

• Coordination of Members' briefings.

• Record keeping and filing.

• Provision of procedural advice.

(b)Whilst it is hard to isolate costs for the provision of physical office facilities within the wider Broad Street building for the 21 Ministers and Assistant Ministers, the MSU consists of an office for the Chief Minister, a shared office for the Deputy Chief Minister and Minister for External Relations and a shared hot desking facility for the remaining 18 Ministers and Assistant Ministers. The estimated cost of providing this, including the office space for the members of staff of the MSU, is £247,124. The breakdown for this estimate is as follows:

May – Dec 2018

Printing and Stationery  12,907 Telephones  12,440 Fuel and Power  15,483 Facilities Management  59,400

Jan – Sept 2019  2020

12,213  10,881 6,605  8,768 13,539  0 94,888  0

It should be noted that it is presently envisaged that better facilities for States Members might arise out of the office accommodation strategy. More information on this will be forthcoming in the next few months.

23. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding overpayments of Social Security benefits (WQ.364/2020)

Question

Will  the  Minister  state  how  many  people  of  pensionable  age  are  currently  re-paying  legacy overpayments from Social Security benefits?

Answer

Overpayments of Social Security benefits may occur for a number of reasons and are not categorised as "legacy." It is not clear from the question what this term refers to.

There are 194 recorded overpayments across 157 Income Support (IS) claims containing a pensioner. There are 1886 IS claims with at least one participant of pensionable age, so this figure means that approximately 8 % of IS claims which include participants of pensioner age have an overpayment that is currently being repaid via an IS claim. These figures do not differentiate between claims where the overpayment was in respect of a pensioner participant or a working age participant who is part of a claim that also includes a pensioner.

The IS system is designed to provide payments in advance to low income households. Paying in advance ensures that vulnerable households are not left without funds to support their basic needs immediately following a change to their household income. A system that makes payments in advance will always require adjustments where household income has increased after a payment has been made. These adjustments will often cause small overpayments that are repaid by weekly adjustments.

Where overpayments are larger these are usually caused by a household failing to notify IS of a change in circumstances, such as an increased income. For pensioners this might be the award of a foreign or private pension. The best way to prevent significant overpayments is for households to notify the Department of any changes that would affect the rate of benefit. This policy is stated in every letter sent to an IS household. Where this policy is followed the levels of overpayment will in most cases be small and the recovery of them will have little impact on the household.

24. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the financial return received from LibertyBus (WQ.365/2020)

Question

Will the Minister advise, in respect of Liberty Bus –

1. the total financial return made from on-Island operations to the parent company, HCT Group, since the commencement of the Liberty Bus contract with the States of Jersey; and
2. whether he holds any information to show how this return compares with the financial returns made by HCT Group-run services in other jurisdictions?

Answer

1. As with the previous contract dating from 2002 and awarded to Connex Bus UK, the 2013 Bus Operating Contract was competitively tendered under Treasury procurement rules. As such, the financial information submitted as part of that tender process was and remains commercially confidential. Information about financial returns is included within HCT Group's own published accounts.
2. HCT Group's stated aim is to use the profits they make from operating commercial contracts to fund charitable activities and community reinvestment in the local authority areas where their subsidiaries are based. No information on other HCT Group subsidiaries is held as this is not relevant to the performance of the Jersey Bus Operating Contract.

25. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Chair of the States Employment Board regarding the Education Partnership agreement (WQ.366/2020)

Question

Will the Minister advise what the current status is of the Education Partnership agreement between the States of Jersey and the National Association of Schoolmasters Union of Women Teachers (N.A.S.U.W.T.) that was agreed in September 2014?

Answer

The States Employment Board and the National Association of Schoolmasters Union of Women Teachers both confirmed their commitment to partnership working as part of the resolution of the 2018/19/20 pay negotiations. Joint working between SEB, officers and NASUWT through the many schools-related issues arising from Covid has provided excellent outcomes for parents and carers, children and young people, and teachers. Officers and NASUWT are seeking to meet within the next few weeks to explore ways to strengthen partnership working in line with the agreement.

26. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier of the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture regarding the Economic Council (WQ.367/2020)

Question

Will the Minister state, in respect of the work of the Economic Council since its formation in July 2020 –

1. what recommendations have been made by the Council to date;  
2. what actions, if any, have been taken based on these recommendations;
3. when the Council has met, and whether the minutes from these meetings have been published; and
4. whether it is the Minister's intention to ensure these minutes are accessible by the public?

Answer

1. The Economic Council has not delivered its formal recommendations as yet. A report is being concluded by the Economic Council membership with a view to publication by the end of October 2020.
2. The Economic Council will make recommendations which will subsequently be consideration by the Economic Recovery Political Oversight Group. A number of actions from the Government Plan 2020-23 remain relevant and will continue in the Government Plan 2021-24 that will be lodged shortly.
3. The Economic Council has met on 8 occasions. A further meeting is scheduled for 21st October 2020 for the Economic Council to sign-off on their interim report and recommendations. Minutes for the Economic Council have not been published.
4. There is no intention to publish the minutes of Economic Council meetings at this stage although they have been provided to Scrutiny. The report and recommendations will be published and will reflect the work undertaken to date.

27. Senator S.Y. Mezec of the Chair of the Privileges and Procedures Committee regarding the trial 3-weekly meeting cycle of the States Assembly (WQ.368/2020)

Question

Will the Chair state, in relation to the trial 3-weekly sitting cycle of the States Assembly starting in January 2021 –

1. what the criteria are for measuring the relative success or failure of the 3-weekly sitting cycle trial, and how these criteria have been developed;
2. how members will be engaged with reviewing the trial, and how the Chair will ensure a balance between the feedback of executive and non-executive members; and
3. if the trial is deemed a success, what the proposed timescale is for adopting the 3-weekly sitting cycle permanently?

Answer

1. Criteria for measuring the success or otherwise of the 3-weekly sitting cycle trial are in development. PPC has not had the opportunity to meet and discuss this issue since the Assembly adopted P.106/2020 on Friday, 25th September. Its next scheduled meeting is on Monday 5th October at 2:30pm, after the submission deadline for this written answer.

The trial does provide the Assembly, perhaps for the very first time in its history, with the opportunity to measure any impact on performance during the course of a new model of operation against that which has been operating unchanged for many years.

Starting with elements of our procedures the Assembly traditionally wishes to avoid: last minute or late filing of comments papers or amendments; suspension of standing orders requests to allow debate on propositions not lodged for the requisite time; written answers which avoid the question; protracted adjournment debates at 5.30pm; sitting late; debates held overnight; sitting on unscheduled continuation days and so on. It will not be difficult to measure the frequency of these against those for an equivalent period - though 2019 might be more accurate given the extraordinary circumstances of 2020.

No doubt PPC will consider other indicators in due course from both executive and non- executive/private members' perspectives. As mentioned in the debate, Scrutiny Panels will have their own criteria which may include availability of interviewees and late cancellations.

Comparing and contrasting measurable data is one factor, another is the personal perception of each Member as to the success or otherwise of the trial.

2. All members will be individually surveyed at the six-month stage. In addition, collective evaluations will be sought from the Council of Ministers, Scrutiny Panels and other Committees. A balance between the feedback of executive and non-executive members must be struck for the trial results to achieve validity.
3. PPC will lodge a proposition in time for debate in July, before the summer recess, placing before the Assembly data collected and survey results and seeking its view on any continuation on a permanent basis or reversion. The 2022 dates for States sittings will be then be published in accordance with the wishes of the Assembly.

3. Oral Questions

1. Deputy D. Johnson of St. Mary of the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture regarding work on updating the Licensing (Jersey) Law 1974 (OQ.253/2020)

Further to the response to Written Question 123/2020, will the Minister advise what progress, if any, has been made as to the establishment of a joint working party to consider options to update the Licensing (Jersey) Law 1974 and, in particular, will he inform the Assembly as to the membership of any such working party?

Senator L.J. Farnham (The Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture):

Senator Pallett will be taking this question.

Senator S.W. Pallett (Assistant Minister, Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture

- rapporteur):

The proposal to establish a joint working party has now been superseded by a decision of the Council of Ministers to establish a task and finish group with the following members. It will be myself, the Minister for Home Affairs, the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the Assistant Minister for Treasury and Resources, Deputy Ash. This new group has been charged with developing a draft statement of alcohol and licensing policy and either proposing new legislation or amendments to the existing 1974 law, as appropriate to achieve the necessary reform. It will aim to lodge an in-principle policy proposition for debate by the States Assembly in quarter 1 2021, with detailed policy and legislative proposals to be lodged as soon as possible thereafter and no later than December 2021.

1. The Deputy of St. Mary :

I thank the Assistant Minister for his reply. In the written response to which the original question referred to, the statement said that the group then envisaged will be chaired by Senator Pallett with membership including representatives of the Licensing Bench. Are Members to take it from this new initiative that there is no intention to amend the constitution of the Licensing Bench, as now so constituted?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

I think at the current stage the working party needs to consider all options. The change to a more political based working party is a decision of the Council of Ministers. We do intend to work closely with the Licensing Bench, as I think all Members would expect. They currently oversee the Licensing Law both from an administrative point of view and policy so it is important that we do involve the Licensing Bench and the court in regards to any future decision-making. But it very much is a decision that we need to take a political lead on this particular issue.

2. Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier :

Will the Assistant Minister confirm that he has had productive meetings with the St. Helier Shadow Conseil Municipal about the possibility of the Parish of St. Helier taking more of an active role in determining licensing applications in our Parish?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

I certainly can confirm that. It was a very interesting meeting that we had with the Shadow Conseil in regards to what options may be available for working more closely with the Parish of St. Helier , and that type of proposal does need further consideration and will be something that the working party will look into.

3. Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence :

In his answer the Senator referred to a "task and finish group" and in my ignorance I have not heard of a task and finish group before so I was wondering if the Senator would be able to cut through the jargon of the Assembly and explain what a task and finish group is and how it exists from a working party?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

We have a set terms of reference in regards to the work that we will be setting out to do. That will be considering issues such as alcohol availability, alcohol pricing, advertising, promotion - something that we will be discussing later today with P.105 - and various other issues, including category models and fee models. Cutting through the jargon, I think we need to consider 2 main issues: one is whether we amend the current law or whether we come forward with a new draft law. The most important thing for me is around statement of licensing policy that will put policy firmly in the States Assembly where I think Members would prefer it to be.

4. Deputy K.F. Morel :

With regards to this task and finish group, the Senator mentioned that it is principally political, is this just another example of the Government retreating from the stakeholders that are involved with the Licensing Law and turning in on itself and not consulting, not getting opinions from elsewhere, and trying to come up with the answers in isolation?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

I can assure the Deputy that is absolutely not the intention of this group. It will be consulting widely with all stakeholders, as I have already said. We could not do this piece of work without having a close collaboration and consultation with the Licensing Bench, with stakeholders, such as the industry and, in fact, the public more generally, because I think it is important that we have a balanced view of the way forward.

[9:45]

As I have already said, the intention is to have an in-principle debate within the States Assembly so that we can gauge the views of all Members in regards to what they want to see of a new law and a statement of licensing policy.

5. Connétable R.A. Buchanan of St. Ouen :

I am sure the Senator, who is a past Constable, will not have forgotten this, but I can just ask him to confirm that he will be consulting with the Comité des Connétable s on any new licensing proposals?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

Absolutely, and I certainly have not forgotten the Constables and the Comité, they are key to, I think, finding a solution to this, as the Constable of St. Helier has already made clear. I think there is a role for the committee and Parishes themselves in finding a solution to some of the issues that we face, but there is no intention to keep anybody out of consultation. It is going to be a wide-ranging. It needs to be wide-ranging because I think the issues are quite complex and we need to get a solution that works for all parties.

6. Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence :

Will the Assistant Minister recognise that there are 12 Parishes in Jersey and that all Parishes should be treated in the same manner? Will he confirm therefore that St. Helier will not be treated differently to the other Parishes?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

I think the Constable will know that that certainly is not the case. There is no intention to treat any Parish any differently than others but clearly St. Helier do have a .. I think it is 50 per cent of all licences within the Island so they are a key stakeholder, but as are all the other 12 Parishes, whether you have got one pub or whether you have got 50 pubs. It is important to have an understanding from each of those Parishes, what their concerns are and have a holistic view from the Constables as to future solutions.

7. The Connétable of St. Lawrence :

Clearly we are not discussing only pubs in this regard, it is all licensed premises. The Comité has, as the Assistant Minister knows, very full agendas when we meet. Will he commit to giving us as much notice as possible please of his intention to meet with us?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

Absolutely. When the resource is made available in terms of officer support for this piece of work we will start to engage more closely with all the stakeholders, obviously including the Comité themselves.

8. The Deputy of St. Mary :

In the Minister's notes or comments to P.105, which is to be debated later today, he concludes that the Scrutiny Panel involved in P.103/2017 supported the general concept of a new law that will provide it for a States approved statement of alcohol licensing policy. Given the measure  of agreement that was reached on that occasion  would  it not be simpler and more expedient to effectively replicate or resurrect P.103 with a view to bringing a new Licensing Law into force as soon as possible?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

Any in-committee debate will probably use that draft piece of work, P.103, as a basis for discussion. I think the Deputy is right. There are elements of that law that are as true now as they were when we lodged it. But there are issues within that draft law that do need some further consultation, certainly with stakeholders, but I think it is key that we fully understand what States Members really want from a new draft law and from a statement of licensing policy before we start that piece of work.

2. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of St. Saviour of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the work of the Mental Health Improvement Board (OQ.261/2020)

Will the Minister provide the Assembly with an update on the progress of the Mental Health Improvement Board, with particular reference to any proposed mental health service improvements that are currently outstanding in terms of delivery?

Deputy R.J. Renouf of St. Ouen (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

I will ask my Assistant Minister , Senator Pallett, to also answer this question. Senator S.W. Pallett (Assistant Minister, Health and Social Services - rapporteur):

I thank the Deputy for his question. Certainly as we head towards World Mental Health Day this coming Saturday, although the question does not specifically mention the mental health improvement plan, which was developed to guide the work of the board, I will briefly update Members on both the board and the plan. The Mental Health Improvement Board has continued to meet throughout the pandemic and has supported mental health service providers to respond to the effects of COVID-19. To ensure its ongoing effectiveness the board is currently reviewing its scope, terms of reference and membership. This review is at an early stage and once complete evidence-based changes will be discussed more widely with a wide range of partners and stakeholders, including with our Scrutiny Panel. Moving on to mental health improvement plan, this was always intended to be a live document. It is rag-rated and updated to show progress on each workstream. The Deputy will no doubt be aware of recent successes that include delivery of the Listening Lounge, the review of Jersey Talking Therapies, that has already seen waiting lists removed for low intensity step 2 support, and completed upgrades at Orchard House and La Chasse. With the mental health care group in place our strong leadership team are working towards closer integration of social care and mental health functions to improve patient care. COVID-19 has had an effect on service delivery delaying the development of the crisis prevention service. As a response to the pandemic, we established our home treatment team in a street triage service, and these are being progressed further, but is now the priority to set up a 24-hour crisis line for Islanders in immediate need. We must continue to improve our collaboration with external partners but also need to build even better relationships with our government colleagues who have important roles to play in supporting the mental health of Islanders. Just to finish, I want to assure the Deputy that many of the recommendations within the Scrutiny Panel report of 2018 have been implemented and I am more than happy to take the Deputy and his Scrutiny Panel through the mental health improvement plan in more detail, as it is impossible to do it justice in an oral question.

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin:

I thank the Senator for his answer and equally for working together on Tuesday on the States Assembly Facebook page to talk about mental health services. He is indeed correct, it is World Mental Health Day on Saturday. Mental health is one of the most neglected areas of public health, the World Health Organization ..

The Bailiff :

Is there a question please, Deputy ? Deputy K.G. Pamplin:

Yes, just getting to it as quickly as I can. Is driving this year their theme of investment into the service. Will he champion the continued and improved funding required for the mental health service lacking on this Island?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

As the Deputy knows, the answer to that is absolutely yes. We have within the Government Plan committed a great deal of funding towards supporting mental health services within the Island. I think, as importantly, making sure that the physical infrastructure is modern and fit for purpose. Recently we have updated Orchard House, as he knows, and we have got La Chasse opening very soon, are key parts of the service. So the investment will be there and he is right, we do have to commit to investing in mental health not just now but in the future.

2. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet of St. Saviour :

Could the Assistant Minister please give some detail of what is within this mental health plan in terms of improvements to perinatal mental health services please?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

In terms of the specifics around perinatal, I am sorry but I am going to have to get back to the Deputy on that. It is a very long and detailed plan. I do have it in front of me but I am going to take time going through it to find it, but I am happy to get back to the Deputy on that particular issue.

3. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

I thank the Minister for that and I hope he will get back to me. Does he agree with me that perinatal mental health is an extremely important area, given that it affects children's mental health and we have committed to putting children first?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

Absolutely. I think in supporting children from the earliest possible age is absolutely vital. I also include families and parents within that as well. It is absolutely key that we provide the support for new parents and, in fact, parents when they have second and third children, making sure that they get the support that they need at a very difficult time. I can assure the Deputy that we will be putting the investment and the effort into making sure parents and young children get that support.

4. Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier :

Will the Minister commit to a full range of mental health support beyond initial programmes, such as Talking Therapies and the Listening Lounge, i.e. when referrals are needed beyond those services?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

Absolutely. The Deputy is absolutely right. It is not just about the initial early intervention work, it is very much making sure that those that need more acute support have got that to be able to access. We are currently recruiting people into position to make sure that our trauma pathways are correct and make sure that people do get the support that they need. It has been a difficult time for the mental health team, especially through the COVID period, but we are now getting back to business as usual, our psychology teams are back to full strength. I think the move back to La Chasse, which is really our adult mental health front door and where most of our contacts take place, getting that back in service is going to be really important to providing the care that people need.

5. Deputy R.J. Ward :

What would the Minister consider to be an acceptable waiting time for this further help that may be needed?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

To be blunt, I think anybody that needs to wait .. there is no acceptable wait. I would like to see people treated as early as possible but I think under the current restraints we have got in terms of staffing it is difficult to see people sometimes when they are most at risk but we are making all efforts now to try to bring waiting times down in step 3 and step 4 within mental health. Jersey Talking Therapies is back up and running and we are looking at our waiting list for step 3, for example, that currently stands at 167. For me that is too many and people are waiting too long. But we are getting that service back to where it needs to be and we will carry on investing in that service until we have .. I do not want to see any waiting lists for people with mental health issues because for me that is only going to mean they get worse, their condition gets worse and that is clearly not acceptable.

6. Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier:

To what extent are mental health improvements dependent on progress on the Jersey Care Model in 2021 and, in particular, what measures have been prioritised on progress towards, for example, greater G.P. (general practitioner) involvement in mental health issues?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

I pick up on the last point because I think the Jersey Care Model to some degree is based on preventative care, and I think G.P.s have a huge role to play within that service. For many, going to the G.P. will be their first point of contact. We do say to people that are struggling with mental health issues that G.P.s quite often are the right route into the service. So we are working more closely with G.P.s in terms of making sure that they fully understand the issues involved around mental health and know the key pathways to making sure people get the right help that they need. Sometimes it is not always medical help. Quite often it can be other issues and social prescribing where we can provide other sources of help and support for people, quite often can be an answer to those that are in mental health stress. It will be linked closely to the Jersey Care Model. Mental health and physical health do need to be treated as one. I mentioned parity of esteem in the past and it is true. We do need to ensure that mental health is treated in the same way that physical health is treated. It needs to be equal treatment.

7. Deputy G.P. Southern :

In particular, how involved have G.P.s been in making primary care in the community, which is the aim of the J.C.M. (Jersey Care Model), making that affordable? To what extent is that happening?

Senator S.W. Pallett:

In terms of affordability, I think it goes into a wider issue that I know the Deputy has close concerns around. Again, I support him. I think there has to be care, it does not matter whether it is physical care or mental health care.

[10:00]

It needs to be affordable and it needs to be accessible to people in the community. I think with the G.P. service we do. There are some decisions we are going to have to make about how we deal with that affordability, as the Deputy is aware. But people need to be able to access it quickly. There are various pathways into our mental health services, some of them are already free, others we may have to consider how we deal with the affordability and accessibility. But I support the Deputy . They do need to be affordable. That is a decision the Assembly are going to have to make in the next few weeks.

8. Deputy K.G. Pamplin:

I thank Members for joining in. Can the Senator update us on the impact of the outstanding strategies, I talk about the carer strategy, dementia strategies, and how they are so important to the ongoing support of mental health services.

Senator S.W. Pallett:

I suppose one of the disappointments I have around the dementia strategy is we have not really progressed in a way we need to. We know that we are going to be dealing with a lot more elderly people - although it does not just affect elderly people - with dementia in coming years. So we do need to have a strategy that deals with that. That is something we do need to put some effort and concentrate on before the end of this political term. As I think the Deputy knows, suicide framework is being moved forward - another key area - in ensuring that we are supporting Islanders through difficult times and they do not end up doing something that is avoidable with the right support. But all areas of mental health need to be dealt with equally but I think some of the strategies that are involved are cross-cutting through Government, and it is important that I think we assess and we take time to reflect before too long on some of the strategies that have not had enough effort put into to date, and dementia strategy is one of those. I have spoken to the dementia charity and they are clear that they want to see some more progress made on this, and I understand where they are coming from.

3. Deputy S.M. Ahier of St. Helier of the Minister for Home Affairs regarding the measures available to deal with cyclists who injured pedestrians (OQ.252/2020)

Will the Minister advise of any measures he is able to take to prevent incidents of pedestrians being hospitalised after being hit by a cyclist travelling downhill on the pavement against the flow of traffic?

Connétable L. Norman of St. Clement (The Minister for Home Affairs):

I would not wish to take any measures to prevent incidents of pedestrians being hospitalised after being hit by a cyclist, on a hill or otherwise, against the flow of traffic or otherwise, if the injury justifies such hospitalisation.

1. Deputy S.M. Ahier :

The person in question had 3 broken ribs, a punctured lung, and a gash to the head, she was detained in hospital for one week. Will the Minister consider introducing legislation to ensure that all cyclists have third party insurance so that those who are injured by cyclists can receive just recompense?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I hope the lady concerned has fully recovered. The matter of insurance for vehicles on the roads is a matter for the Road Traffic Law, I think, and it is a matter for the Minister for Infrastructure, not the Minister for Home Affairs.

The Bailiff :

I think that must be right, Deputy Ahier .

2. Deputy I. Gardiner of St. Helier :

I would like to ask the Minister, would he consider extra measures to enforce when cyclists are riding on the pavement, as we have increased complaints from the parishioners in St. Helier and the enforcement, from their perspective, does not work well.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

Normally, riding a bicycle or any other vehicle on a pavement or against the flow of traffic is an offence in any event so such incidents should be reported to the police, and that is the Honorary Police or the States of Jersey Police. I believe that it is an offence. The matter does get a little more complicated as there are some pavements where some cyclists are encouraged to use the pavement. One of them I believe is Beaumont Hill and there are some roads in town where cyclists are also encouraged to drive against the normal flow of traffic.

3. Deputy I. Gardiner :

Would it be possible for the Minister to provide the statistics of cyclist offences that happened during the last year so we can see what has really been happening and not just anecdotal evidence from parishioners?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I will see if I can get that information. I imagine that many such incidents will be dealt with at Parish Hall Inquiry level so I would not have those statistics, but I can find out what statistics are available.

4. The Connétable of St. Helier :

I am sure the Minister is intimating that this question should perhaps have been addressed to the Minister for Infrastructure. Does the Minister for Home Affairs believe that the absence of a cycling strategy, which is long overdue, is frustrating the ability of various enforcement agencies to spell out to cyclists what is and is not acceptable as they make their way around the Island?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I do not really think so. The law exists. The law is clear. Cyclists should be aware that generally they should not be riding on pavements or being a nuisance or riding dangerously on any road. One of the things which concerns me a little bit is cycles and electric cycles now seem to be going faster and faster, and they are not subjected to speed limits and I would like to see them subject to speed limits in green lanes, for example, where they can go faster than the cars are allowed to do, which not right in my view.

5. The Connétable of St. Helier :

The Minister appears to be suggesting that he believes the Road Traffic Law is fit for purpose in this regard. Does he believe there is enough of an understanding out there in the public that cyclists should always give priority to pedestrians? Certainly this is not the case in the currently closed Broad Street, despite my asking the Minister for Infrastructure to make the signage more clear. Will the Minister for Home Affairs undertake to speak to his colleague in the Council of Ministers to see if, together, they can make the situation clearer to all road users?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I really cannot speak for my colleague Minister, but I am always happy to talk to him about any issues. But of course the Constable, himself, really has the ability to speak directly to the Minister rather than using me as conduit and a third party.

6. Deputy R.J. Ward :

Does the Minister believe that rather than more punitive laws towards those wanting to take sustainable methods of transport, what is necessary is a more informed and understanding of the use of shared space on the Island and that is something that perhaps his police force and other members who are in contact with the community could be absolutely crucial in promoting?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I can assure you that all members of the Home Affairs Department would quite happily work with any agencies to help improve understanding of the regulation and laws regarding cyclists and other road traffic situations. I think perhaps some cyclists should be reminded of the 1956 Cycle Order, which was made by the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the use of cycles and warning devices and so on because I am not quite sure that everyone is abiding by it.

7. Deputy R.J. Ward :

Does the Minister think that introducing a legal requirement for third party insurance will inevitably extend to perhaps those going for a walk because they may jaywalk, or those walking their dog because somebody may trip on it or anyone who owns a pet that may trip somebody over and therefore is unnecessarily punitive?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

It is not something which I will consider under my own ministerial remit but of course most individuals who own or rent property will have third party insurance anyway through their property insurance.

8. Deputy K.F. Morel :

The Minister referred to enforcement and people reporting instances of cyclists on pavements. I regularly see cyclists cycling through the Royal Square and on pavements throughout St. Helier . How would the Minister suggest I report those people given that I do not know their names, I do not know their addresses and I have no means of asking them that when they are travelling at 20 miles an hour?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

If such incidents are reported to the police or to the Parish Hall , the police and the Parish can eventually work out where the hotspots are and check on them, to keep an eye on particular areas.

9. Deputy K.F. Morel :

Given that one of the hotspots is the Royal Square right outside this building, will the Minister for Home Affairs be asking police officers to monitor that area and enforce the law with regard cycling in that area?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I am quite happy to inform the Parish of St. Helier and the States of Jersey Police that Deputy Morel thinks that the Royal Square is a hotspot for these incidents.

10. Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade :

Would the Minister support a bicycle registration scheme, both for electrified and otherwise, if it were to be brought forward by the Minister for Infrastructure?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

That is a question I would have to give consideration to but I do not think it is .. I am being asked that question as Minister for Home Affairs. When it comes to that debate, if it does occur, I would be dealing with it as an elected Member of the States, the Constable of St. Clement , so I cannot answer that question because at this present moment I do not know, it would depend on what the proposition exactly was.

The Bailiff :

Indeed, Connétable , I would have ruled that question out of order had you not begun to answer it. I do not think that question is in order.

11. Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade :

I was going to ask whether the Minister thinks we should bring back the death penalty for anyone caught cycling on a pavement but I think I will not do that because it is probably too good for them. He may not have the exact stats to hand but could he confirm whether there are more injuries caused by cars hitting pedestrians in Jersey than there are bikes hitting pedestrians?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

As the Deputy implies, I do not know and I am not going to guess. I would suspect that is probably the case but I do not know. He made this comment about me wanting the death penalty for cyclists. I really do not understand what that is about because I am not anti-cycle whatsoever. My comments this morning have indicated that.

12. Deputy M. Tadier :

That comment was not directed at the Minister, maybe just other Members. The supplementary is: does the Minister believe, as far as it impinges on the Home Affairs portfolio, that rather than new legislation to resolve any issues that might exist between cyclists and pedestrians that shared use of space and greater awareness of the built environment and how we might allow the 2 to co-exist is probably a more effective way of avoiding these kind of incidents in future.

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I think that is probably right. But the reality is we have all got a part to play in this. Whether we are a motorist, a pedestrian, a cyclist, a horse-rider, a scooter rider, whatever, we have a duty of care to other road users. We should exercise that. We are all responsible.

13. Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

Could the Minister just outline what the impact of reduced police numbers is on the ability to do proactive policing, such as catching people cycling on pavements?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

The police, whatever numbers we have, will prioritise what is important at any particular time. As the Deputy knows, speeding was one which the police had an operation on a few weeks ago in co- operation with the Honorary Police and was very successful. If it is decided between the Honorary Police and States of Jersey Police that a purge on cyclists not having bells, or whatever, is a priority for the Island then I am sure they will do that. But police numbers are not reducing, I would say to the Deputy . Police numbers are increasing and we are nearly up to the maximum that was agreed in the Government Plan last year of 215 officers from 190 we were down to at one point.

14. Deputy S.M. Ahier :

Can the Minister ask the States of Jersey Police to keep a record of each incident of pedestrians being hit by cyclists so that a full understanding of the problem can be evaluated?

The Connétable of St. Clement :

I am absolutely sure that such records of all accidents involving injury are maintained. I am pretty sure that is the case.

[10:15]

4. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Social Security regarding the Care Needs at Home project (OQ.259/2020)

Will the Minister explain the rationale behind the decision to defer the implementation of the Care Needs at Home project by one year, in the light of the continuing commitment to increase care at home contained in the Jersey Care Model?

Deputy J.A. Martin of St. Helier (The Minister for Social Security):

I have not announced any plans to defer the Care Needs at Home project by one year.

3.4.1 Deputy G.P. Southern :

Is there to be any change in the schedule that she has originally come out with over the Carers' Strategy?

Deputy J.A. Martin:

This is not a Carers' Strategy. The Deputy may remember we have a very small group of people, I think there are between 80 and 100 people who are very vulnerable and we need officers to literally go into their home and make sure what their care needs are and it may need a bit of money, it may need help in different ways. This is why they are going from one form of benefit to another. I hope that helps the Deputy with who these people are.

5. Deputy R.J. Ward of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the tax liability of High Value residents (OQ.256/2020)

When will the next review of the tax liability for High Value Residents be undertaken; and what plans, if any, are there to consult with the wider population of Jersey regarding any changes to that liability?

Deputy S.W. Pinel of St. Clement (The Minister for Treasury and Resources):

Following the review of the 2011 tax regime element of the High Value Resident Scheme in 2016 the States Assembly agreed a new version of the regime which took effect from 2018. A number of changes of provisions of Article 135A of the Income Tax (Jersey) Law 1961 were made in the 2018 Budget and Finance Law. The new regime included the new minimum tax contribution of £145,000 annually. Subparagraphs (12A)(a) and (12A)(b) oblige me no later than 1st January 2023, and every 5 years thereafter, to consider whether the prescribed limits and rates of the latest version of the scheme are appropriate. Under the 2018 changes no increase may exceed the percentage increase in the retail price index in the same period. In the light of this I do not believe that it would be necessary or appropriate to subject the next review of the current regime to very wide consultation; although we will obviously consult key stakeholders including States Members.

1. Deputy R.J. Ward :

Would it not be a good idea for the Minister to undertake an overall cost benefit analysis of the whole scheme before the next review?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

Well, as I said in my opening remarks, in the next review in 2023 there will be wide consultation in advance of that.

2. Deputy K.F. Morel :

Does the Minister agree that one of the fundamental tenets of economics is supply and demand and, given that it is widely reported that High Value individuals and families around the world are looking for safe, small islands to live in, that it is time that the Island responds to this increase in demand by raising the price of High Value Residents coming to live in Jersey?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

The last review told us that Jersey's regime remains internationally competitive while expecting individuals to contribute more than they would do so in a number of key competitive jurisdictions. It must be remembered that besides annual tax contribution High Value Residents contribute other monies to the Government, including stamp duty, and many of them are likely contributors to charities, local employment and services.

3. Deputy K.F. Morel :

I also contribute a lot more than just my taxes but I do not get preferential rates. But would the Minister agree that the previous review being certainly before COVID-19 is now out of date and, as such, the world has changed a great deal and it is time for a new review to take place?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

As I again said in my opening remarks, these reviews take place every 5 years. I agree with the Deputy that obviously the world has changed in the last 6 or 7 months but one cannot have a review every time there is a change in the global economy. So it will stay at every 5 years but obviously we will start in advance with consultation.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

Given the Minister's commitment and indeed this Assembly's commitment to reducing income inequality, does she not think that an earlier review of the conditions for High Value Residents should take place before 2023?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

I think that is the same question as I have just answered. The reviews are planned for every 5 years, as I have already said, and I do not think there is necessarily going to be one before 2023.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

But given the Minister's commitment to reducing income inequality does she not think that 2023 might be rather a long way away and that she should do the review beforehand?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

No, at this stage I do not.

6. The Deputy of St. Mary :

From the figures kindly provided to me by the Minister some 2 weeks ago it appears that the 1 per cent rate charged over and above the minimum for this category of persons produced a total of £1.65 million in the year 2018 which, based on the number of people so contributing represents an average of only £10,000 a year. Given the element of divisiveness which this 2-tier system produces in the eyes of some residents does she not agree that it would be sensible to reconsider whether this 1 per cent rate should continue to be applied, possibly at the expense of increasing the minimum rate for this category?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

Yes, I do. It is quite a difficult one because the tax regime has been reviewed several times since it was first introduced after 2005 for high value residents and the 1 per cent rate was introduced, and it is virtually impossible by law to change retrospective tax regimes. So I agree with the Deputy that to keep with a lower rate of 1 per cent is probably not the way forward, which will obviously be discussed with the 2023 review. But at the moment one cannot by law change a retrospective tax regime.

7. Deputy J.H. Perchard of St. Saviour :

In one of the Minister's earlier answers she referred to charitable contributions made by High Net Worth Residents, which would come under the legal term written in the law as a social benefit category of their contribution; but we do not measure or define social benefit. Does the Minister think that it would be better for us not to rely on the assumption of social benefits coming from high net worth and instead simply up the tax rate?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

I am not quite sure I understood that. Did the Deputy mean put the tax rate up for H.V.R.s (high value residents) or across the board? Everybody makes charitable donations.

Deputy J.H. Perchard:

Sorry, I will rephrase. An argument that we have heard repeatedly from previous Governments about not changing the tax rate for H.V.R.s has been the fact that they contribute in a social benefit capacity, but given that we do not define social benefit or measure it should we not get rid of that in law and simply focus on the tax side of it and put the rate up instead of relying upon the idea that they might contribute to charity?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

Thank you to the Deputy for rephrasing the question. We could look at the definition of social benefit again, of course we could, but I think it is broader than just contributing to charities; it is the services, the people that are employed on top of all the benefits to charities. So it is not just a complete contribution into the economy which H.V.R.s pay, and I do not think that you could pick one benefit out of another.

8. Deputy R.J. Ward :

May I thank other Members for their really insightful questioning there. May I ask the Minister finally, are some prospective High Value Residents being encouraged to apply for status to come here and work for an already established business rather than getting businesses to apply for an employment licence so that they would pay the full rate of tax?

Deputy S.W. Pinel:

I cannot answer the question directly because I do not have the information on what each High Value Resident does with their business, whether they have businesses to run here, how many people they employ; so it is a very broad question. Out of the 177 high value residents it is very difficult to give a definitive answer to that.

6. Deputy M. Tadier of the States of Jersey Trustee of the Jersey Community Relations Trust regarding the statue of George Carteret in St. Peter (OQ.254/2020)

Was the Jersey Community Relations Trust consulted about the erection of the George Carteret statue in St. Peter in 2014? If so, will the Deputy provide details of that consultation?

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet (States of Jersey Trustee of the Jersey Community Relations Trust):

I thank the Deputy for the question. Upon examination of the minute books, no record of any consultation with the J.C.R.T. (Jersey Community Relations Trust) has been found.

1. Deputy M. Tadier :

I thank the Deputy for that answer. Given the fact that Sir George Carteret was one of the most famous, if not most prolific, slave traders that Jersey has ever produced and contributed to immense suffering of the people that he enslaved and those who died in transit on his boats going over to the Caribbean and elsewhere, does the Deputy think it is strange that in 2014 when a statue was put up of a slave trader that the Community Relations Trust was not even approached for a view on how it might affect people in the black community living in Jersey?

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

I do think it is strange that a statue would be erected without sufficient background research being done into the background of the person who is on that statue, yes. I think that is what has happened. I think perhaps it is not strange that the J.C.R.T. were not consulted because I think the diversity issues just were not discovered with any research done around the statue and that is why nobody was consulted. But I do think it is strange in 2014 that that research was not conducted at all it seems.

2. Deputy K.F. Morel :

When the Jersey Community Relations Trust undertake consultations for research does it ordinarily place the results of that research of consultation on to its website?

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

Yes, there have been some issues with the website. Last year I think the website was hacked so we were without a website for some time, and we are currently undergoing a rebrand. But, yes, all of our reports are publicly available and if any members of the public or any States Members want access to any of those reports please do email me and I will make sure those are forwarded. But J.C.R.T. does tend to do reports on big issues, so research reports in a similar way to a Scrutiny report rather than smaller consultations.

3. Deputy K.F. Morel :

I have looked at news and consultations and news of consultations on the J.C.R.T. website but unfortunately the website has no information past 2013. Will the Chair please endeavour to ensure that the Community Trust uses it website for the community to place news so the Island can understand what the Community Trust is doing?

[10:30]

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

Absolutely, and I will repeat what I have just said that there have been some issues with the website being hacked. We are undergoing a rebrand and once that is complete all the reports and consultations will be available publicly on the new website.

4. Senator S.Y. Mézec :

Could I ask the Deputy in her capacity with the Community Relations Trust whether she has a particular view about the way forward on this rather delicate subject where we have an active glorification which took place just a few years ago of a man who, in his own time, was extremely unpopular in the Island and who inflicted misery and awful actions against black people which even at the time were considered reprehensible - if not by the aristocracy of which George Carteret was a part of. In our community now, reconciling those issues and what it means today, does the Deputy have a view about what could be a good way forward in having that discussion and working out what we do with these offensive monuments, which for some reason still are in place in Jersey today?

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

I think that the solution to this issue should come from members of the black community, so I would like to see what they would like done with the statue. I understand that a compromise has been offered whereby the statue would not be destroyed but could be possibly displayed in a museum setting in Jersey, and with the requisite information and historical details accompanying the statue. Personally I feel that would be a good compromise.

5. Deputy M. Tadier :

I think that the Deputy was kind when she said that when she said the statue was put up proper research had not been done. It is the case - because I have spoken to the person who gave advice to the former Constable of St. Peter ..

The Bailiff :

Deputy this does have to be a question and at the moment you are informing .. Deputy M. Tadier :

It is a question; it is the context. Is the Deputy aware that when the statue was constructed and erected it was done in the full knowledge of George Carteret's slave trading past, and that the person who put it up put it up irrespective of that and, therefore, it is not a case that the research was not done but it is a case that it was put up in the full knowledge of that fact? So with that in mind, does the Deputy think that it is completely unacceptable that the Community Relations Trust were not consulted?

Deputy L.M.C. Doublet :

It does surprise me to hear that that research would have been done by the people putting up the statute, and I do not think it is acceptable, no. With full knowledge of that individual's past and history I do not really think it is acceptable to put up a statue to that person if that knowledge is something that is known about at the time; no, I do not agree with that.

7. Deputy K.F. Morel of the Minister for Education regarding the measures taken to encourage children to cycle to school (OQ.255/2020)

Given the large volumes of motorised traffic and the Government's desire to encourage the use of non-motorised transport what steps, if any, is the Education Department taking to discourage the use of cars for the transport of pupils to and from schools? What, if anything, is the department doing to encourage children to cycle to school?

Senator T.A. Vallois (The Minister for Education):

The encouragement of cycling and other non-motorised options for transport for pupils relies not just on my department but many others who support us with training, infrastructure improvements and other aspects. A cycling proficiency scheme now known as Bikeability is offered to primary schools for pupils in year 6. The numbers of primary schools that are involved varies from year to year but usually between 10 and 13 are involved in year 6. Recently Jersey Sport has trained and employed staff who are now dedicated to eventually delivering Bikeability to all primary schools. Additionally cycling courses are run during school holidays for children who have either been unable to attend school courses or wish to develop their own road-riding skills. Officers from Environment and Infrastructure tried to run an annual campaign aimed at encouraging primary school children and their parents to walk and cycle to school and they are presently preparing to test a walking bus scheme. They are also in the final stages of recruiting a new policy officer for sustainable transport. This new recruit will take on the further development of this work and the implementation of the Sustainable Transport Policy, which was approved by the States Assembly in March 2020.

1. Deputy K.F. Morel :

I would like to thank the Minister for her full and comprehensive answer. I would also like to ask if the Minister or the department has any plans to ask its schools, particularly its secondary schools, to restrict the numbers of cars dropping off and picking up children from the schools, particularly in secondary schools where children perhaps have many more ways of getting to school?

Senator T.A. Vallois:

It is not something that I am aware is proactively assessed or decided on in terms of the access to the secondary schools. I know historically that, for example, Hautlieu, where we had students that were driving to school, there was a ban for a period then for cars on the property, but I can certainly go back and discuss how that might be feasible, bearing in mind this is asking parents to stop doing something such as that. But we will also have to ensure that we have got appropriate bus networks in place as well, as I understand some buses that go to some of our schools are particularly overstretched with students.

2. Deputy R.J. Ward :

Does the Minister believe that enabling a free bus service for children to travel to school would be one way to encourage people out of cars, even if that means increasing the number of buses as they become more popular among young people because of the zero cost?

Senator T.A. Vallois:

Yes, I have no doubt that having some form of free bus service would encourage more on to buses and, therefore, an increased requirement for the bus service.

3. Deputy R.J. Ward :

Does the Minister believe that LibertyBus and the Minister for Infrastructure could do more to improve the service to schools, including a wider service to Hautlieu and Highlands throughout the day for our older students who would then have access to their courses, which are not at set times during the day?

Senator T.A. Vallois:

I would particularly like to see more support in terms of the bus service to the areas around Highlands and Hautlieu, in particular. There have been some issues around that particular offering. I was slightly concerned around the timings; of course as the Deputy has mentioned, at different times of the day the bus service does not necessarily go all year around up Wellington Hill as an example, but maybe there is some further work that I can do. I do deal with the Minister for Infrastructure in terms of discussions around that transport and the Sustainable Transport Policy.

4. Deputy K.F. Morel :

Given that the Minister has described certain bus services for schools as being overstretched, and she is already speaking to the Minister for Infrastructure about the sustainable transport policy, would the Minister provide the Assembly with assurance that those discussions with the Minister for Infrastructure are regular and ongoing and aimed at being finished at some point so actions can be taken?

Senator T.A. Vallois:

Yes, what I would refer the Deputy to is the Sustainable Transport Policy, which identified a need for large areas of work to be carried out, one of which was a bus service development plan and active travel plan as well, working closely with the Assistant Minister of Economic Development around the active strategy. So these are all strategies and policies that come together for us to implement appropriately, and of course these have been delayed, like many other policies, but we continue to work on them actively and ensure that we get something in place sooner rather than later.

8. Deputy K.G. Pamplin of the Minister for Children and Housing regarding the mental health and wellbeing support offered to children and young people (OQ.262/2020)

Further to the funding recently provided to Children, Young People, Education and Skills for a well- being and recovery plan, will the Minister provide details of the backlog caused by the COVID-19 pandemic in cases of children and young people needing mental health and well-being support. Will he explain why the plan was not in place earlier, maybe at the start of the pandemic?

Senator S.Y. Mézec (The Minister for Children and Housing):

A backlog of cases has built up due to COVID-19 and an inability to undertake face-to-face assessments until we moved to level 1 in August. That backlog includes 19 children and young people currently waiting for an initial C.A.M.H.S. (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service) assessment and 69 young people awaiting further treatment. The average waiting time for treatment after referral has increased from 11 weeks pre-COVID to 13 weeks now, and if the Deputy can be more specific about what detail within the backlog he is seeking I can try and provide him with that detail. But this has been mitigated as far as is possible by the extraordinary efforts of staff right away to change the way they work, doing what they can online, and by other services like the Y.E.S. (Youth Enquiry Services) Project stepping up its support, and also setting up of the Meadow View facility. I am pleased to say that the dialectical behaviour therapy team have been shortlisted for a national award from the Association for Psychological Therapies for the way that they were able to spearhead a virtual delivery of their service. But these difficulties were inevitably exacerbated by the need for some families and staff to shield through lockdown. As the Deputy knows, there is a wider service redesign for C.A.M.H.S. and thankfully that has not been disrupted too much by COVID. But the reason that the specific plan he referenced in his question was not in place earlier was simply because it is there to address a backlog caused by not being able to undertake face-to-face assessments, so those extra temporary staff had they been there earlier would not have been able to undertake the work that they are there to undertake because it was down to those physical restrictions that were in place.

1. Deputy K.G. Pamplin:

I think it begs the question again. At very early stages when - as the Minister has just described - that face-to-face was not going to be possible, however adult services were moving quickly to ensure that contact remained; can he explain why this was not acted upon quickly because it would have been identified that a backlog quickly would have been happening.

Senator S.Y. Mézec :

I do not know if I accept the premise of the question. I think that in very difficult circumstances of course all parts of the mental health service, but C.A.M.H.S. included, have attempted where they can to provide services in a different way and in an appropriate way, given the lockdown restrictions that there were. Of course that was not easy to do, but many have I think done remarkably considering that. So I think I just do not accept the premise that people have been slow here; it has just been a very difficult and unfortunate context we find ourselves in.

2. Deputy K.F. Morel :

Awards nominations and remarkability aside; does the Minister think it is acceptable for young people and children to be waiting 13 weeks for their assessments and their treatment?

Senator S.Y. Mézec :

No, not even vaguely, and we have to work to effect systemic change to get support in place so whatever the context, whether it is in a pandemic or otherwise, that those waiting lists go down and that those young people are given what I think they frankly deserve, which is timely support when they are facing health problems, mental, physical or otherwise. That is why there is a wider service redesign for C.A.M.H.S. taking place and I have no doubt that we will be discussing the resourcing of some of that during the Government Plan debate.

3. Deputy K.F. Morel :

The buck stops with the Minister, so does the Minister believe he has done enough to address this 13 week wait?

Senator S.Y. Mézec :

As I have said to the Deputy , there is a wider service redesign for C.A.M.H.S. taking place. If that falls off track or if that ends up not resourced appropriately or it ends up not working then that will of course be my failure to carry, and I hope that we will not be in that situation. But this requires systemic change and that is not easy to do and can take a lot longer than any of us would like.

4. Deputy S.G. Luce of St. Martin :

Could I ask the Senator what work has been done to allow children to have access to the same counsellor when they reach the age of 18?

[10:45]

Senator S.Y. Mézec :

Relatively early on in the pandemic there was a significant amount of work that took place on this because of recognising that even in the best of times, but in particular with everything that was going on, young people facing disruption when they hit adulthood was not particularly good for them and work was done to provide continuity for those young people hitting that point in their life. I think we are going to have to have a wider think about how that can be regularised and how people who are receiving treatment and support get that continuity in the long run.

5. The Deputy of St. Martin :

Does the Senator agree with me that it is vitally important that a youngster, 16, 17 year-old that is receiving help continues with that same person through into 18 and 19 and that a change of counsellor at that time could be absolutely detrimental to good work that has already been done?

Senator S.Y. Mézec :

I think that is a really good point and I am aware through my work of having met young people whose lives have been turned around largely because of a particular relationship they have struck up with somebody in the service who has been helping them. I think for arbitrary reasons to have somebody lose access to somebody who is clearly having a positive impact in supporting their health would just not be the right thing to do. So I certainly do agree with the point that the Deputy is making.

6. Deputy K.G. Pamplin:

Can I just push the Minister further on the extent of the current backlog, if he could answer that please, in terms of are they known members to the service, and how the money will help shorten it; can he explain that?

Senator S.Y. Mézec :

I would have to have a think about the specific numbers in terms of who was known by the service beforehand. I have got in front of me headline figures, which I have already shared with him. If he wants to drop me an email I can provide him detail on what he has just asked and perhaps some other things that he might find helpful as well. I think he referred to the funding that has just been released now; that will be providing greater access for those young people to that support that we have not been able to provide over the last few months in the numbers that have been needed to prevent those waiting times from going up, and in terms of providing access to mental health practitioner support workers and a child psychiatrist as well. We know that is needed and so that is why that particular amount of funding has been released, to see us through to the end of the year before hopefully, with the Government Plan debates, we will have more stable funding for the future.

9. Deputy R.J. Ward of the Chief Minister regarding the undertaking of a Children's Right Impact Assessment for the forthcoming Government Plan (OQ.257/2020)

What level of Child Rights Impact Assessments, if any, have been undertaken in respect of the forthcoming Government Plan?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister):

We have committed to bring forward a due regard law which will indirectly incorporate the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into Jersey domestic legislation. While a Children's Rights Impact Assessment, or C.R.I.A., has not been undertaken in relation to the Government Plan our priorities to develop the legal framework would fully introduce a statutory C.R.I.A. during 2021. So to help us to prepare Ministers, non-Exec Members, government departments and public authorities for indirect incorporation we have commissioned a training needs analysis from the University of Wales Trinity St. David. This will be published shortly and will shape the provision of training resources ahead of legislation. We are also continuing to develop a Jersey C.R.I.A. process with support from the Children's Commissioner, and that is going to be piloted in the coming months. As the Deputy will have seen from written answers to questions today, there have been 2 C.R.I.A. initial assessments also trialled.

3.9.1 Deputy R.J. Ward :

I thank the Chief Minister for his answer and his support for our Child Rights Impact Assessments. I just ask him whether he feels that perhaps there was a missed opportunity with the Government Plan for the Chief Minister to lead the way for other Members in encouraging the use of these impact assessments and showing how positive they can be for the future of the Island.

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

No, I do not think it was a missed opportunity. I make the point that this process is being introduced; that is why I think trialling things in small areas to make sure of what the impacts are, understanding them, is absolutely  appropriate. I  do make the point though that obviously  in preparing the Government Plan we do have to take account of the sustainable well-being of the inhabitants of Jersey, the success of its generations, therefore we are already taking account of certain impacts of what we are proposing to bring to the Assembly.

10. Deputy K.F. Morel of the Chief Minister regarding the incorporation of home-working withi the OneGov office strategy (OQ.258/2020)

In developing the OneGov office strategy what steps, if any, is the Government taking to incorporate the effects of home working by staff into the assessment of its future office needs?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré (The Chief Minister):

In developing plans for a single office a degree of agile working has been concluded in terms of desk to staff ratios and spatial requirements. In more recent times, as a result of the COVID-19 situation, we know that more staff want to work in more agile and flexible ways, so officers have been asked to consider the implications of more home working and how that would impact on the current plans for our new building. I am advised that with more agile working there is the opportunity to effectively accommodate more staff in a new building and that could also realise greater efficiencies across the public sector. In parallel, officers are in the process of developing an agile working strategy that will ensure that agreed and consistent principles are applied across the organisation to offer public service staff the flexibility that aligns with modern lifestyles.

1. Deputy K.F. Morel :

The Minister, in his response, mentioned that more staff could be accommodated in a building in which agile working and home working are encouraged. Would it not also make sense to see it as fewer staff would need to be accommodated in a building? So, should 30 per cent of staff be working from home on any given day - as is happening in many private offices - a 1,500-person building would only need to be a 1,000-person building. Is that not an appropriate way to view this cultural change in working that has taken place over the past few months?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

I take the point the Deputy is trying to make but what we are saying is that if we have less people in the building we can, therefore, bring more people from other places and free up those places that those people are presently working in and, therefore, achieve greater efficiencies. There is a balance between people working from home and, as we have all experienced in the isolation period we have all been through, and the kind of networking and well-being of people working in an office together. So that is the balance we are also trying to achieve. The Deputy is absolutely right in what we have talked about in terms of home working, there is provision in that we have looked at the office strategy from the perspective of COVID-19 and the impact there, but we are satisfied that the principles are that if the original cohort that we were looking at is reduced from the principles of homeworking we can bring more people into the strategy and, therefore, achieve greater benefits for the public and for the workforce.

2. The Deputy of St. Martin :

When the new office building is eventually constructed can the Chief Minister give the Assembly an assurance that it will be on States-owned land and it will not be rented or leased from a private company?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

At this stage all options are on the table and the tender process is due to come back to myself and other Ministers relevant to that group, I believe, during the course of this month. I also believe that we are giving Scrutiny an update I think this Thursday, if not the following Thursday.

3. The Deputy of St. Martin :

Does the Chief Minister agree with me that the States currently owns too much land and purchasing further land for the construction of a new office building would seem to go against the grain?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

I can understand what the Deputy is saying. I agree with his first comment, which is that we do have too much planned and too many buildings, a number of which are not up to standard and provide a poor working environment for our staff, as well as being inefficient to run. Therefore, the whole principle behind this is to get our staff into better working conditions, to save money for the taxpayer and ultimately to release sites for much needed housing, which will be brownfield. But in terms of what is the best strategy, that all depends on timing, what can provide the best fit for the requirements of the States - and there are a whole number of variables in there - and, as I say, Scrutiny will be getting their latest update I believe in the next couple of Thursdays. Once we have got a position obviously we will be bringing that to States Members at the very least as a briefing and then, subject to what the outcomes are, there will be references either in the Government Plan or as a separate approval.

4. Deputy G.P. Southern :

The Chief Minister just mentioned decent working conditions for the staff. Does he consider that Broad Street is arranged in such a way that actually it is a sick building and that there is not enough access to daylight, which in the long term will cause serious problems to people's health?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

I certainly would not go to that extent. Broad Street is not without its difficulties but it is a significant improvement on previous accommodation that we were occupying. We can certainly see a lot better working practices coming out and that is people working together, silos breaking down, all those types of issues from the move to Broad Street; so I think it was a good result. In terms of daylight, we will make sure that is covered in any future schemes that are brought forward.

5. Deputy G.P. Southern :

A related topic: do the current sites on the Parade and in Broad Street provide sufficient access to the public so that the Government can show its best face to the public, or are those places very difficult to get into? You end up stuck in front of a door that is locked and you have got to wait for a member of staff to come in. Especially now that we have done the rear of Broad Street ..

The Bailiff :

I am not sure that is focused into a question yet, is it, Deputy Southern ? Deputy G.P. Southern :

Does he agree that we are not presenting our face in the current structures? Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

I think we are still operating under COVID restrictions and, therefore, by dint of that of course the public access is not what we would all want. Prior to that I would say the access to Broad Street, as far as I was aware, was perfectly effective.

6. Deputy R.J. Ward :

In the provision of these office spaces and facilities will this be extended equitably to non-Executive Members of the Assembly, which is a benchmark for good governance?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

Indeed I think in answer to one of the written questions, the proposed office strategy will be considering better facilities for States Members. It will obviously be a matter for Members to consider.

7. Deputy R.J. Ward :

Can the Minister reassure that that consideration is equitable and gives non-Executive Members the facilities they need to perform the role that is so essential to hold Government to account?

Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

As far as I am concerned anything we do will be an improvement on the facilities that Members presently have. I would need to understand exactly what the Deputy means by equitable. I imagine it will be up to a fit standard and appropriate for the type of business that we all do in our various roles.

8. Deputy K.F. Morel :

In my previous question I mentioned that private offices are restricting the number of people who work to 50 per cent, 30 per cent, 20 per cent, keeping them away from the office. Would the Minister advise the Assembly as to whether there is any percentage of office staff that the Government is using in its modelling that it intends to say: "No, we will only work on 80 per cent or 70 per cent of staff being in the office at any one time."

[11:00]

In their modelling is there any particular percentage that the Government is working to? Senator J.A.N. Le Fondré:

I have to say I will have to go back and confirm what that percentage is. It would not surprise me that there is some form of modelling exercise in terms of percentage. I do not know what that is but I will come back to the Deputy in due course.

11. Deputy G.P. Southern of the Minister for Social Security regarding the minimum wage (OQ.260/2020)

Will the Minister provide Members with details of the proposed review of how the minimum wage is agreed?

Deputy J.A. Martin (The Minister for Social Security):

I have not announced a review of how the minimum wage is agreed.

1. Deputy G.P. Southern :

When will she announce that review?

Deputy J.A. Martin:

Nothing has changed since the debate in here and the Written Questions on 261. It is still not the time to go out and consult because the way businesses are. So as I say, we are where we are.

2. Deputy R.J. Ward :

Given the in-committee debate that we undertook in recovery, and there was so much talk of a living wage, can I ask the Minister whether she will be promoting a living wage beyond that of a minimum wage in order to move our society forward?

Deputy J.A. Martin:

I did listen to the in-committee debate and I was thinking somebody else might propose that. At the moment I am not proposing anything but the minimum wage.

3. Deputy R.J. Ward :

Can I ask the Minister whether she would - and encourage the Council of Ministers to - support the move to a living wage on this Island in order to give more control to those working over their lives?

The Bailiff :

Minister, I will allow that question because it seems to flow from the one that went before but could I remind Members that this is not a general question period for the Minister for Social Security and the question is really focused on the minimum wage and the review of the minimum wage, and moving into other forms of wage calculation I think is outside the general parameters of the question. I will allow this particular supplemental but no other questions that are not related to the minimum wage.

Deputy J.A. Martin:

The answer to the Deputy is there are many other considerations to be taken into account, especially with what we have just gone through and where the economy is. That is all I can answer at the moment. As you say, it was not the question I was prepared to answer.

4. Deputy K.F. Morel :

In the recent debate on the minimum wage I said that COVID-19 was the reason we needed a rise in the minimum wage. Given those are my views, will the Minister commit to undertaking a review of the minimum wage in the near future in order to ensure that Islanders who are paid the very least have a level of wage that they are capable of living on in this Island?

Deputy J.A. Martin:

It was established in the debate I do have to go out and ask the Employment Forum to consult. I am still not convinced that it is a good time. I want the consultation to be about the economy as it is today, about the workers, and when I and Chief Minister feel that it is a good time to go out that is what we will do.

5. Deputy K.F. Morel :

Under what precise conditions would the Minister consider it is right to ask the Employment Forum to undertake its review?

Deputy J.A. Martin:

I want a good consultation, I want the employers and the employees to have 100 per cent commitment to do the review, to reply to the review, and I am certainly not sure we are quite there yet. So I am sorry I cannot give the Deputy a time but I do discuss this probably every other week at Social Security and you will know when we go out because we ask the Employment Forum to do the review.