States Minutes 7th June 1983

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 7th June, 1983 at 10.15 a.m. under the Presidency  of  the   Bailiff ,  Sir Frank Ereaut.

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All members were present with the exception of –

Senator John Le Marquand – ill.

Senator Jane Patricia Sandeman – out of the Island.

Michael Walter Bonn, Deputy of St. Peter – out of the Island.

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Prayers. _____

Subordinate legislation tabled.

The  following  enactments  were  laid  before  the  States, namely –

1. Social  Security  (Incapacity  Benefit)  (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Order, 1983. R & O 7184.
2. Invalid  Care  and  Disability  Allowances  (General Provisions)  (Amendment  No. 3)  (Jersey)  Order, 1983. R & O 7185.

Report on Petition regarding the extension of mains drainage to certain properties in St. Peter . P.89/83.

The Resources Recovery Board by Act dated 12th May, 1983, presented to the States the Report on the Petition regarding the extension of mains drainage to certain properties in St. Peter .

THE STATES ordered that the said Report be printed and distributed.

159  [ Price : 75p.]

Jersey Electricity Company Limited – Directors' Report and Accounts for 1982.

The Finance and Economics Committee by Act dated 18th May, 1983, presented to the States the Jersey Electricity Company Limited Directors' Report and Statement of Accounts for 1982.

States of Jersey Police Force Report 1982.

The Defence Committee by Act dated 2nd June, 1983, presented to the States a Report on the States of Jersey Police Force for 1982.

THE STATES ordered that the said Report be printed and distributed.

Matters noted – land transactions.

THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 1st June, 1983, showing that in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land, the Committee had approved –

1. as recommended by the Education Committee, the passing with Mr. John Donald Ribar and Mrs. Marie Virgine Ribar, née Oliver, of 5, Belgrave Terrace, Dicq Road, St. Saviour , of a contrat de transaction, recognising that the walls and gable of the west side of the property belonged to and were owned by the owners of the property;
2. as recommended by the Island Development Committee, the sale to Tudor Marketing Company Limited of an area of land measuring about 157 square feet, contiguous with Le Jardin Bertram, Gorey Village, Grouville , for the nominal sum of £1.00;
3. as recommended by the Committee for Postal Administration, the leasing from Le Riches Stores Limited of 283 square feet of space at Le Riches Stores, Les Quennevais, required for use as the Sub- Post Office, for a period of 9 years with effect from 28th October, 1982, at an annual rent of £3,107 for the first 5 years, to be reviewed after that time on the basis of market value;

4. as recommended by the Fort Regent Development Committee, the assignment from Mr. and Mrs. P.E.R. Hansen to Mr. Terence Firks Andrews of the unexpired balance of the lease of L'Arc en Ciel, a boutique operated from Room 48 in the Piazza, Fort Regent, in accordance with the terms approved by the States on 20th January, 1976;
5. as recommended by the Housing Committee, with the support of the Island Development Committee, the purchase from Mr. Sidney England Guy of Belford Place, Dicq Road, St. Saviour , for a consideration of £25,000 for the realty on the basis of each party paying their own legal fees.

Matters noted – financial transactions.

THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 1st June, 1983, showing that in pursuance of Rule 5 of the Public Finances (General) (Jersey) Rules, 1967, as amended, the Committee had noted that the Housing Committee had accepted the lowest of five tenders, namely that submitted by J.F. Marett and Son Limited in the sum of £49,691 in a contract period of 30 weeks for the conversion of 8, Dorset Street, St. Helier .

Matters lodged.

The following subjects were lodged "au Greffe" –

1. Telecommunications Board: capital proposals for 1984–1988. P.84/83.

Presented by the Telecommunications Board. The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 21st June, 1983.

2. Works progress and capital estimates for the Resources Recovery Board for 1984. P.85/83. Presented by the Resources Recovery Board. The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 21st June, 1983.
3. Les Quennevais Playing Fields: development of Phase II. P.86/83.

Presented by the Education Committee. The States decided  to  take  this  subject into consideration on 28th June, 1983.

4. Canning of mid potatoes by Jersey Exporters Limited: Interest subsidy. P.87/83.

Presented by the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee. The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 21st June, 1983.

5. Further improvements to surface water drainage and flood alleviation in the Georgetown district. P.88/83.

Presented by the Resources Recovery Board.

The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 21st June, 1983.

6. Social Security Reciprocal Agreement with the United States of America. P.90/83.

Presented by the Social Security Committee. The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 21st June, 1983.

Development Proposals of the Housing Committee for 1984. P.68/83.

THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Housing Committee that the Proposition regarding the development proposals  of  the  Housing  Committee  for  1984 (lodged on 10th May, 1983) be considered on 14th June, 1983.

Replacement Airport Foam Service Tender. P.74/83.

THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Harbours and Airport Committee that the Proposition regarding the replacement airport foam service tender (lodged on 24th May, 1983) be considered on 21st June, 1983.

Air Traffic Control Equipment. P.75/83.

THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Harbours and Airport Committee that the Proposition regarding the Air  Traffic Control Equipment (lodged on 24th May, 1983) be considered on 21st June, 1983.

Haut de la Garenne and residential children's homes. P.79/83.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of Deputy Terence John Le Main of St. Helier , agreed that the Proposition regarding the Haut de la Garenne and residential children's homes (lodged on 24th May, 1983) be considered on 26th July, 1983 instead of 21st June, 1983.

Committee of Inquiry into Parish Rates. P.81/83.

THE STATES rejected a Proposition of William John Morvan, Connétable of St. Lawrence , that the Proposition regarding the Committee of Inquiry into Parish Rates (lodged on 31st May, 1983) be deferred from 28th June, 1983 until the Autumn Session.

Negotiations conducted by the Postal Department. Questions and answers.

Senator John Philip de Carteret asked Deputy Jean Amy Le Maistre of St. Helier , President of the Committee for Postal Administration, the following questions –

"1. Is the President aware of the illogical situation

which currently exists whereby the Director of Postal Administration is leading negotiations in a States trading area on behalf of the employers – the States of Jersey – and concurrently holds office in a trade union – the Jersey Civil Service Association – and negotiates on their behalf as a member of the Civil Service Joint Council on the conditions of service of States' employees?

2. Does the President regard this state of affairs as being satisfactory particularly in view of the fact that it could lead to the civil servant in question being put into an embarrassing situation for himself and the States of Jersey, in that in one set of negotiations he will be aware of official States policy in regard to those conditions, while in another he may be arguing against that same policy?
3. What progress is being made to reach agreement with its clerical employees to end the dispute which led to the Head Post Office being closed on 31st March?
4. Are the Establishment Committee and its officers being kept informed of the progress of these negotiations and the nature of the dispute?
5. Can the President inform the House why it was that no effort was made to inform the public of the fact that the main Post Office in Broad Street and the sub-office at Five Oaks, which is used by a large number of old age pensioners, would be closed because of industrial action on 31st March, 1983, bearing in mind the fact that the Department was aware of the action prior to Channel Television's late bulletin the evening before and BBC Radio Jersey's morning programme that same day?"

The President replied as follows –

"Questions 1 & 2

The Postal Committee deplores the fact that the first two questions are worded as statements which could appear to call into question the integrity and loyalty of a Chief Officer. The Committee also views seriously a statement which is completely incorrect and regrets that the Senator did not take the trouble to check his facts with myself as President before asking these questions. I have researched as much as possible during the short time available since receiving these questions and I have been unable to find on record any occasion when these matters have been raised by the Senator with the Postal Committee during his five years' membership. To my knowledge he did not raise them during my Presidency of the Committee.

In order to assist the Members of the House I wish to state that all civil servants, including senior officers and Heads of Departments, have a right to be members of the Jersey Civil Service Association which, incidentally, is a recognised Staff Association and not a Trade Union. The officer holding the post of Director of Postal Administration was accorded the honorary position of Life Vice-President of this Association in 1974, on vacating the office of elected President, in recognition of many successful years of service in the interests of good relations between the Civil Service and the States. He has not taken part in discussions in the Civil Service Joint Council since, except when invited to do so as one of a group of serving Chief Officers in 1976 and 1979 to discuss with the Establishment Committee certain problems concerning salary and grading structure at Chief Officer level, and in 1978 to explain the details of fair comparison', with the United Kingdom Civil Service based on his previous experience, the system having been introduced in 1962.

Senator de Carteret's statement is, therefore, incorrect.

I would wish to re-emphasise that the Postal Committee has every confidence in the integrity, dedication and efficiency of its Chief Officer and, indeed, all its officers, who work together as a team achieving results of which the Committee is justly proud.

Question 3

Negotiations in relation to the causes of the dispute referred to are in train, on a basis discussed with the President of the Establishment Committee and his Employee Relations Officer (Mr. Pinel) which it is hoped may lead in due course to a resolution of the problem.

Question 4

The Employment Relations Officer is participating in the negotiations, he and the President of the Establishment Committee having been consulted immediately in regard to the action referred to, and also subsequently, on the issues involved.

Question 5

As President of the Committee I was aware on the evening of 30th March, 1983, that the decision then taken by a group of staff without prior notice was unofficial and would not necessarily have the backing of all the staff who might be concerned. It was quite possible that sufficient staff would attend to permit the Broad Street and Five Oaks Offices to open, a situation which could not however become clear until those offices were due to open on the morning of 31st March. In my view, which is shared by my Committee, a sure way to encourage actions of the nature referred to is to accord them too readily the very publicity they are seeking to attract. It is our further view that delicate negotiations of any nature are best not conducted in public, and I would add that it is hardly conducive to success if, by allowing undeserved and unreserved criticism, we undermine the confidence of those who devote their energies to carrying out our wishes to the very best of the considerable talent, aptitude and experience for which they were appointed."

Petition concerning the sentencing of persons convicted in the Police Court. Question and answer.

Deputy Ronald Winter Blampied of St. Helier asked the Attorney General the following questions –

"As a year has now elapsed since the presentation of the petition regarding the sentencing of persons convicted in the Police Court, can the Attorney General inform the House of the progress made in completing his report to the Legislation Committee".

The Attorney General replied as follows –

"I have completed my report and it has been delivered to the States Greffe."

St. Helier Traffic Plan.

THE STATES, having accepted an amendment of the Public Works Committee that sub-paragraph (b) of paragraph 1 of its Proposition regarding the St. Helier Traffic Plan be deleted, commenced consideration of paragraph 1 and having also accepted an amendment of Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne of St. Saviour that for the word "accept" there should be substituted the word "note", adopted sub-paragraph (a).

Members present voted as follows –

"Pour" (38) Senators

Vibert , Jeune , Averty, Binnington, de Carteret, Horsfall, Ellis, Baal.

Connétable s

St. Ouen , St. John , St. Brelade , St. Lawrence , St. Martin , St. Peter , St. Helier .

Deputies

Mourant(H), St. Ouen , Morel (S), Le Maistre(H), Quenault(B), Perkins(C), Le Gallais(S), Roche(S), Le Brocq(H), Le Quesne(S), St. Martin , Filleul(H), Vandervliet(L), Le Main(H), Farley(H), Le Fondré(L), Rumboll(H), Grouville , St. Mary , Beadle(B), Wavell(H), Blampied(S), Billot(S).

"Contre" (8)

Senator

Rothwell.

Connétable s

Grouville , St. Saviour , Trinity , St. Clement .

Deputies

Trinity , Buesnel(H), Thorne (B).

After discussion, the Committee withdrew sub-paragraph (c) and, having relettered sub-paragraph (d) as sub-paragraph (b), adopted the said sub-paragraph.

THE STATES, adopting paragraph 1 as amended, noted the policy of the Public Works Committee in respect of the possible traffic restraint measures, and –

1. agreed to the principle of clearway operations, including no stopping and no right turns at specified points and at peak hours on the St. Helier ring road;
2. agreed to the control of the use of on-street uploading bays by the issue of permits to specified vehicles authorising them to utilise these facilities for limited periods.

THE STATES then commenced consideration of paragraph 2 and, having acceded to a request of the Committee that sub- paragraph (a) be deferred, adopted sub-paragraph (b) and approved the traffic management scheme for the area bounded by Pleasant Street/Clarence Road, part of Colomberie/Green Street/Grenville Street/Don Road, St. James Street and part of St. Saviour 's Road.

THE STATES then commenced consideration of paragraph 3 and, after discussion, the Committee withdrew sub-paragraph (a) and, having relettered sub-paragraph (b) as sub-paragraph (a) and, having accepted an amendment of Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne of St. Saviour that the words "in accordance with diagram 5A as set out in P.69/83" be added, adopted the said sub-paragraph and approved the road junction improvement at the junction of Rouge Bouillon and Queen's Road, in accordance with diagram 5A as set out in P.69/83.

Members present voted for sub-paragraph (a) as follows –

"Pour" (22)

Senators

Vibert , Averty, Binnington, de Carteret, Horsfall, Ellis. Connétable s

St. Ouen , St. John , St. Martin , St. Peter , St. Helier . Deputies

Morel (S), Roche(S), Le Brocq(H), Filleul(H), Vandervliet(L), Le Main(H), Farley(H), Rumboll(H), St. Mary , Beadle(B), Billot(S).

"Contre" (21)

Senators

Jeune , Baal, Rothwell.

Connétable s

Grouville , St. Saviour , Trinity , St. Clement . Deputies

Mourant(H), St. Ouen , Le Maistre(H), Quenault(B), Perkins(C), Le Gallais(S), Le Quesne(S), Trinity , St. Martin , Le Fondré(L), Buesnel(H), Grouville , Thorne (B), Blampied(H).

William  John  Morvan,   Connétable  of   St. Lawrence ,  having declared an interest in the matter withdrew from the Chamber.

THE STATES then adjourned and agreed that the remaining paragraphs of the Proposition regarding the St. Helier Traffic Plan and the other outstanding items of business should stand over until the next meeting and be considered immediately before the matters already set down for debate at that meeting.

THE STATES rose at 6.20 p.m.

E.J.M. POTTER, Greffier of the States.