States Minutes 21st October 1986

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 21st October, 1986 at 10.15 a.m. under the Presidency of the Bailiff ,

Peter Leslie Crill, Esquire, C.B.E. ____________

All members were present with the exception of –

Senator John Le Marquand – out of the Island.

Senator Jane Patricia Sandeman – out of the Island. Senator Peter Geoffrey Kevitt Manton – out of the Island.

Charles Alan Le Maistre, Connétable of Grouville – out of the Island.

John Le Gallais, Deputy of St. Saviour – out of the Island.

Robin Ernest Richard Rumboll, Deputy of St. Helier – out of the Island.

Corrie Stein, Deputy of Grouville – out of the Island.

____________

Prayers ____________

Subordinate legislation tabled

The following enactments were laid before the States, namely –

1. Depositors  and  Investors  (Prevention  of  Fraud) (List  of  Registered  Persons)  (Amendment  No. 3) (Jersey) Order, 1986. R & O 7561.
2. Road Traffic (Public Parking Places) (Amendment No. 2) (Jersey) Order, 1986. R & O 7562.

331   Price : 75p

Matters noted – land transactions.

THE STATES noted an Act of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 13th October, 1986, showing that in pursuance of Standing Orders relating to certain transactions in land, the Committee had approved –

1. as recommended by the Education Committee, the public of the Island being party to the sale of the property "Burleigh", Beach Road, St. Saviour by Mr. Richard John Lees-Baker and Mrs. Jennifer Ann Lees-Baker, née Baker, to Mrs. Phyllis Mary Beckford, née Machin, to agree to the position of a new garage and wall constructed at the property which abutted and might encroach on a private roadway forming part of the property Mandalay', administered by the Education Committee, and to give right of access onto that roadway to permit repair and maintenance of the garage and wall, subject to Mr. and Mrs. Lees-Baker being responsible for the payment of the public's legal fees;
2. as recommended by the Public Works Committee, the acquisition from Major James Arthur Friend of2,775 square feet of land forming part of Field No. 1000, St. Mary , required in connexion with a road improvement scheme at Le Mont de Ste. Marie, St. Mary , for a consideration of £10, with the Committee being responsible for the payment of legal fees and for the reconstruction of the wall which would be faced with granite and capped with a coping stone, and would then retain and maintain the wall in perpetuity;
3. as recommended by the Housing Committee, the grant to The Jersey Electricity Company Limited of a wayleave and the right to lay high tension electricity cables at Journeaux Court, St. Helier , as shown on Drawing No. 22K, with each party being responsible for the payment of its own legal fees;

4. as recommended by the Housing Committee, the sale to The Jersey Electricity Company Limited of the site of an electricity sub-station, measuring approximately
   7. square metres at Halcyon House, St. Helier , for the sum of £10, with rights of access and contract wayleaves, for the laying of subterranean cables free of charge, as shown on Drawing No. 84-156-IIH, with each party being responsible for the payment of its own legal fees;
5. as recommended by the Housing Committee, the sale to The Jersey Electricity Company Limited of a site for mini-pillar No. 864, measuring approximately

1.25 square metres, at La Rue des Friquettes, St. Saviour , for the sum of £10, with any wayleaves for connexion to that pillar being awarded in perpetuity, free of charge, together with rights of access, as shown on Drawing No. 28/F24, with each party being responsible for payment of its own legal fees.

Matters noted – financial transactions.

THE STATES noted Acts of the Finance and Economics Committee dated 15th September and 13th October, 1986, showing that in pursuance of Rule 5 of the Public Finances (General) (Jersey) Rules, 1967, as amended, the Committee had noted that –

1. the Housing Committee had accepted the lowest of five tenders, namely that submitted by Peter Cameron Limited in the sum of £875,100 in a contract period of60 weeks, for the development of Hampshire Gardens Phase II to provide 30 units of accommodation;
2. the Education Committee had accepted the lowest of seven tenders, namely that submitted by Regal Construction (Jersey) Limited in the sum of £271,001.37 in a fixed contract period of nine months,

for the construction of Les Quennevais Playing Fields Pavilion I.

Matters lodged.

The following subjects were lodged "au Greffe" –

1. Grouville : homes for the elderly – financial assistance. P.139/86.

Presented by the Finance and Economics Committee. The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 4th November, 1986.

2. Rue Fondon Trading Estate, St. Peter : sale of industrial sites. P.140/86.

Presented by the Island Development Committee. The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 4th November, 1986.

3. Draft Housing (General Provisions) (Amendment No. 8) (Jersey) Regulations, 198 . P.141/86. Presented by the Housing Committee. The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 4th November, 1986.

Housing Committee: consents under Regulation 1(1)(k) P.15/86.

THE STATES acceded to the request of Senator Richard Joseph Shenton  that the Proposition relating to the Housing Committee: consents under Regulation 1(1)(k) (lodged on 28th January, 1986) be considered on 4th November, 1986.

Navarimo, 76 Stopford Road, St. Saviour : purchase. P.132/86.

THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Island Development Committee that the Proposition relating to the purchase of Navarimo, 76 Stopford Road, St. Saviour (lodged on 7th October, 1986) be considered on 4th November, 1986.

Three Oaks Vineries, St. Lawrence . Question and answer.

Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne of St. Saviour asked Connétable John Pepin Le Sueur of St. John , President of the Island Development Committee, the following question –

"Would the President state whether, before tabling Proposition P.118/86 concerning Three Oaks Vineries, either he, or his Vice-President or his Chief Officer visited the site?"

The President of the Island Development Committee replied as follows –

"1. Before I answer this question, may I commend the

Presidency of the Island Development Committee to this House as a most excellent position from which to view the ways of this world and of some approaches to politics.

2. The Deputy was, in fact, informed by me during one of those friendly chats that we politicians regularly indulge in that I had not visited the whole site personally immediately before the lodging. On that occasion he actually surprised me, in the light of his comments about double-talk when speaking to the Proposition, by saying that he was not opposed to the construction of the house concerned in the Green Zone provided it was moved from one position to another on the site.
3. But I wish to go on to answer this question in more detail, especially as it is designed to suggest that the Committee's procedures regarding this particular application were not entirely satisfactory.
4. In the first instance, I am pleased to advise the Deputy that I have known the Three Oaks Vineries site for more years than he has probably spent in Jersey. The vinery was built on land belonging to Grassdale, which was owned by my aunt, Miss Hilda Jane Le Sueur . I wish to tell the Deputy that I caught my first two rabbits in the field which now contains the vinery. For several years, I also courted a young lady who lived at Le Rat. My family originates from La Qualité which is some 200 yards from the vinery. As an agricultural merchant, I called on the first owner, Mr. Cotillard, as I did on the second owner, Mr. England. I trust that it will be accepted that I know the site in great detail.

5. Secondly, in Committee discussions my Vice-President acknowledged a reasonable familiarity with the site. On 28th July, 1986, before approving the draft Report and Proposition on the 11th August, my Committee had visited the immediate area in connexion with an application relating to Grassdale and had been shown the site by the area planning officer. My Committee was aware that both its own officers and those of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee were making very firm and favourable recommendations, and my Vice-President visited the site on two further occasions between the date of lodging and that of the debate.
6. Insofar as the Chief Officer is concerned, he has been responsible for the preparation of almost exactly 100 Propositions in this category over the years, with this being almost the first site that he has not visited as part of that process. Quite simply, other officers are currently training in this respect given his impending retirement, and undertook this case.".

Draft Franchise (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Law, 198 . P.126/86.

THE STATES commenced consideration of the draft Franchise (Amendment No. 4) (Jersey) Law, 198 (lodged on 23rd September, 1986) and rejected the Proposition of Deputy Sir Martin Le Quesne of St. Saviour that the preamble be referred back to the Committee.

Members present voted as follows –

"Pour" (19)

Senators

Vibert , Binnington, Horsfall, Baal, Rothwell.

Deputies

St. Ouen , Le Maistre(H), Roche(S), Le Brocq(H), Le Quesne(S), Vandervliet(L), Farley(H), Thorne (B), Wavell(H), Billot(S), Norman(C), Carter(H), Mahoney(H), St. Martin .

"Contre" (26)

Senators

Shenton, Jeune , Ellis, Le Main.

Connétable s

St. John , Trinity , St. Brelade , St. Martin , St. Peter , St. Helier , St. Clement , St. Lawrence , St. Mary , St. Ouen , St. Saviour .

Deputies

Mourant(H), Morel (S), Quénault(B), Trinity , Filleul(H), Le Fondré(L), St. Mary , Beadle(B), Blampied(H), St. John , St. Peter .

The Preamble was adopted.

Members present voted as follows –

"Pour" (22)

Senators

Shenton, Jeune , Ellis.

Connétable s

St. John , Trinity , St. Martin , St. Peter , St. Lawrence , St. Mary , St. Ouen , St. Saviour .

Deputies

Mourant(H), Morel (S), Quénault(B), Trinity , Filleul(H), Le Fondré(L), St. Mary , Beadle(B), Blampied(H), St. John , St. Peter .

"Contre" (17)

Senators

Vibert , Binnington, Horsfall, Baal, Rothwell.

Deputies

St. Ouen , Le Maistre(H), Roche(S), Le Brocq(H), Vandervliet(L), Farley(H), Thorne (B), Billot(S), Norman(C), Carter(H), Mahoney(H), St. Martin .

Article 1 was adopted.

Article 2 was adopted as amended, the States having accepted an amendment of Deputy Dereck André Carter of St. Helier that in the substituted paragraph (2)(b) of Article 9 the word "wrongly" should be deleted. The States rejected the proposition of Deputy Norman Stuart Le Brocq of St. Helier that the States move to the consideration of the next item on the Order Paper less than 20 Members having voted in support of the proposition.

THE STATES decided to continue consideration of the Bill in Second Reading on 11th November, 1986.

Field 424, Corbière, St. Brelade : purchase. P.128/86.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Island Development Committee –

1. agreed to rescind their Act of 16th August, 1977 agreeing to the purchase of Field 424, Corbière, St. Brelade , for the sum of £95,000;
2. approved the purchase from Inglebert Properties Limited of land at and adjoining Field 424, Corbière, St. Brelade , as shown dotted on Map 05.8089.02 and measuring approximately 11 vergées for the sum of £200,000;

3. agreed that, in the event of the land subject of acquisition being used within 25 years of purchase for any purpose other than as open heathland (including appropriate facilities for public enjoyment as such), a sum of money shall be paid to the vendors or their successors representing the difference between the value of the land at the time of purchase and the then current value of the land for the development envisaged;
4. authorised the Attorney General and the Greffier of the States to pass the necessary contract; and
5. authorised the Treasurer of the States to pay the total consideration, as set out in (b), with each party being responsible for its own legal fees, out of the capital vote of credit granted to the Committee under the heading "Acquisition of Land – Major Reserve" (Vote No. C0904).

Senator Ralph Vibert , having declared an interest in the matter, withdrew from the Chamber prior to the debate.

Health Insurance (Medical Benefit) (Amendment No. 29) (Jersey) Regulations, 1986. P.131/86.

THE STATES, in pursuance of Articles 18 and 46 of the Health Insurance (Jersey) Law, 1967, as amended, made Regulations entitled the Health Insurance (Medical Benefit) (Amendment No. 29) (Jersey) Regulations, 1986.

Agricultural Industry: continuation of bank interest subsidies. P.123/86.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee –

1. approved the continuation of the scheme to provide growers with an interest subsidy on monies borrowed from the Clearing Banks and the Trustee Savings Bank of the Channel Islands for the purchase of items used directly in the production and packing of produce in accordance with the list approved by the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee, the level of the subsidy to be the difference between 6.5 per cent and the individual base rate of the Bank concerned and the subsidy to apply in respect of interest on borrowings during the period 1st October, 1986 to 30th September, 1987;

2. approved the continuation of a scheme to provide Jersey Exporters Limited with an interest subsidy on monies borrowed from Kleinwort Benson (CI) Limited for the financing of the mid potato canning contract, the level of subsidy to be the difference between 6.5 per cent and the effective interest rate of the Bank, and the subsidy to apply in respect of borrowings during the period 1st July, 1987 to 30th June, 1988;
3. approved the continuation of a scheme to provide glasshouse growers approved by the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee with a subsidy on monies borrowed from Banks to finance the purchase of fuel for glasshouses, the subsidy to amount to the individual base rate of the Bank concerned and the subsidy to apply to borrowings after 1st September, 1986 and repaid by 30th June, 1987.

Police Headquarters: improved security arrangements. P.133/86.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Defence Committee –

1. approved Drawing No. 2394/72 showing the re- development at Police Headquarters to provide improved security arrangements;

2. authorised the Greffier of the States to sign the said Drawings on behalf of the States.

THE STATES rose at 5.35 p.m.

R.S. GRAY, Deputy Greffier of the States.