States Minutes 23rd February 1988

THE STATES assembled on Tuesday, 23rd February, 1988 at 10.15 a.m. under the Presidency of the Deputy Bailiff , Vernon Amy Tomes, Esquire. ____________

All members were present with the exception of –

Senator Pierre François Horsfall – out of the Island.

Snowdon George Robins, Connétable of St. Saviour – absent.

____________

Prayers ____________

Subordinate legislation tabled.

The following enactment was laid before the States, namely –

Fire Service (General Provisions) (Amendment No. 10) (Jersey) Order, 1988. R & O 7722.

Matters lodged.

The following subjects were lodged "au Greffe" –

1. Salaries for Deputies. P.16/88.

Presented  by   Deputy  Maurice  Clement  Buesnel  of St. Helier .

2. Draft  Public  Employees  (Contributory  Retirement Scheme)  (Transitional  Provisions)  (No. 2) (Jersey) Regulations, 198 . P.17/88.

Presented  by  the  Establishment  Committee.  The  States decided  to  take  this  subject  into  consideration  on  8th March, 1988.

81   Price : 50p

3. Draft Gambling (Betting) (Amendment No. 5) (Jersey) Regulations, 198 . P.18/88.

Presented by the Gambling Control Committee. The States decided to take this subject into consideration on 8th March, 1988.

4. Amendment to draft Gambling (Betting) (Amendment No. 5) (Jersey) Regulations, 198 . P.19/88.

Presented by the Gambling Control Committee.

General Hospital: window replacement on north-east wing. P.14/88.

THE STATES acceded to the request of the President of the Public Health Committee that the Proposition relating to the window replacement on the north-east wing of the General Hospital (lodged on 16th February, 1988) be considered on 1st March, 1988.

Golf courses. Questions and answers.

Senator Richard Joseph Shenton asked the Connétable of St. John , President of the Island Development Committee, the following questions –

"1. Will the President confirm that plans have been

prepared by the Island Development Committee for a golf course on land at Les Quennevais?

2.  Will the President advise the House whether, in the event of the States approving a golf course at Beauport, compulsory powers would have to be sought for acquisition from many land owners who are at present unwilling to sell or lease their land for such a purpose?"

The President of the Island Development Committee replied as follows –

"1. I should like to answer this question in two parts.

First: as the House knows, we investigated a proposal put forward by the, then, Deputy of St. Brelade , Graham Thorne , that an 18-hole public golf course be constructed on land at Les Quennevais, comprising Les Ormes campsite and surrounding land belonging to Mr. G. Bisson, together with the land to the east between Belle Vue Pleasure Park and the Airport Playing Fields, bounded by the Quennevais Road.

Drawings produced by our golf course architects, Huggett Coles and Associates, showed not only that the area of land was too small for an 18-hole golf course but also that some parts of the site could not be used because they were too steep.

Second: the Committee has, in recent months, considered proposals put forward by the Jersey Motor Cycle and Light Car Club and the Jersey Kart Club, for the use of Mr. Bisson's land. Mr. Bisson's interest in providing a private 9 or 12-hole golf course on his own land is known, and the motor clubs are interested in making a motor sports track at the disused sand pit and former tip in Les Ormes Valley (colloquially known as Creepy Valley). The Planning Department prepared a drawing which shows how both activities could be accommodated on Mr. Bisson's land, while at the same time respecting the particular sensitivity of the edges of this land in relation to Les Blanches Banques. This drawing was produced solely as a basis for discussions between the motor clubs and Mr. Bisson and acceptance of the proposals is clearly dependent on the latter's agreement as landowner.

My Committee has seen this drawing and has agreed that there could be merit in the proposals if a private agreement can be reached. There is much to be gained from moving the scramblers from Sorel and confining the kart and rally activities of the motor clubs to an area that is well screened, hidden from view and in a generally degraded area. The same topography that makes the valley unsuitable for golf provides a noise buffer and visual screen between the site of the proposed activities and the surroundings. We would bring such a proposal to the States for approval (the site is in the Green Zone) if we were to receive a formal application from Mr. Bisson and the motor clubs.

The golf course that could be provided would be a par-3, 9-hole course – similar to that in use at the Five Mile Road. There would be no guarantee that it would be available to the general public on a green fee basis as there would be no way in which the formation of a club could be prevented, although I understand that this is not Mr. Bisson's intention.

2.  Members will recall that they have already zoned the land at La Moye Farm/Les Creux for a public golf course. I assured the House, and the drawings included in Projet P.112/86 showed, that it was possible to provide an acceptable golf course on land that owners had said would be made available for this purpose. To my knowledge there are not many owners who are unwilling to make their land available as the question states. Those that are unwilling hold only small parts of the zoned land, and our golf course architects have shown that those areas are not essential to the creation of an 18-hole golf course. There is only one owner of land who, since the debate in October 1986, has changed his mind about making available some 2½ vergées.

I have deliberately used the term make available' because I do not believe it is necessary to purchase land to provide a golf course; although I have to say it would be preferable if the States could do so. I have on file signed statements from owners that they would be prepared to lease their land for a long-term; this will provide sufficient land at La Moye for a course to be constructed.

I do not, therefore, believe it will be necessary to use compulsory purchase powers to obtain the land necessary to provide an 18-hole golf course in this area."

Halfa, Beach Road, St. Saviour . Statement.

The President of the Island Development Committee made a statement in the following terms –

"My Committee on the 16th February, 1988 was asked by this House to reconsider its decision to refuse permission for the establishment of a day nursery at Halfa, Beach Road, St. Saviour . We did this on the 18th February, 1988 and I now wish to report to you my Committee's views.

The Committee first asked itself the question whether members of this House wanted it to grant a one off' consent for Mrs. Hansford's nursery because of the special circumstances of the case or whether they were looking for the establishment of a new Island wide planning policy with regard to day nurseries? My experiences have shown me, as President of the Island Development Committee, that the general public does expect policies, once they have been established, to be applied consistently if circumstances of applications are comparable.

My Committee considers that this application should not be taken as a one off' and that if consent is granted a precedent will be established for other properties in the Island where the owner may wish to operate a day nursery. In fact I know of two such applications which have been made since the debate last Tuesday and if the demand is as great as it would appear there will be others. The Committee therefore wishes to make known to the House its concern about the effect that decisions to approve such applications will have on the residential areas of St. Helier .

My Committee has already had informal talks with the President of the Education Committee who expresses the view that Education is not in a position to provide nursery or pre-school facilities now or in the future.

Under the circumstances, my Committee has decided that it will grant permission for a change of use to Mrs. Hansford and to other applicants who demonstrate that by operating day nurseries they are meeting a social need and, by doing so, are not causing unacceptable disturbance to their neighbours."

Modena, Clarence Road, St. Helier : transfer of administration.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Public Works Committee, agreed to the transfer of the administration of Modena, Clarence Road, St. Helier to the Housing Committee until such time as it is required by the Public Works Committee in connexion with a road widening scheme.

No. 67 Val Plaisant, St. Helier : transfer of administration.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Public Works Committee, agreed to the transfer of the administration of No. 67 Val Plaisant, St. Helier to the Housing Committee until such time as it is required by the Public Works Committee in connexion with a gyratory traffic scheme.

Oakfield Industries: operation and extension of job support scheme. P.193/87.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Social Security Committee –

1. approved the guidelines for the operation of Oakfield Industries Limited as set out in the Report of the Committee dated 6th August, 1987;
2. approved the extension of the use of the vote of credit "Employment of the Disabled" (Vote No. 4821A) for training grants as set out in the Report;
3. approved the extension of the period of grants to employers from three to six months at the discretion of the Committee.

Fuel Oil Supply and Distribution: fourth supplier. P.3/88.

THE STATES, adopting a Proposition of the Finance and Economics Committee, agreed –

1. that a fourth supplier of oil should be established in the Island;
2. to authorise the Finance and Economics Committee to enter into negotiations with Total Oil Great Britain Limited regarding the implementation of their proposals for establishing the fourth supplier and to bring detailed proposals to the States in due course;
3. that the storage tanks to be used by the fourth supplier should be installed by the States and leased to the supplier;
4. to authorise the Finance and Economics Committee to enter into negotiations with the La Collette Consortium for the release of the area of land leased at La Collette described as the "expansion area".

5. that the fourth supplier and the existing La Collette Consortium should be required to maintain minimum stock levels to be agreed between the Finance and Economics Committee and the Defence Committee.

Licensing of horses. P.4/88. Withdrawn.

THE STATES commenced consideration of a Proposition of Senator Terence John Le Main to request the Defence Committee to report on the desirability or otherwise of introducing a system of licensing for all horses not primarily engaged in agricultural work where the granting of such a licence would be subject to approval by the Agriculture and Fisheries Committee and also to the production of proof of public liability third party insurance (lodged on 19th January, 1988).

After discussion Senator Le Main withdrew the Proposition. THE STATES rose at 12.40 p.m.

R.S. GRAY, Deputy Greffier of the States.